Thread 58464522

So what's the consensus on ZA's battle system? Haven't seen anyone talking about it in any detail.
Do you like it better than pure turn based?

I think it’s a system in progress but this could honestly be the future of the franchise. Or at least, a staple of future legends games. This brings in a tremendous group of gamers who don’t play turn based games and play whatever third person slop is available, and this certainly is it. My opinion, it’s fun, but it’s not competitive, and field effects are now a completely different disruptor for switching in a 3D plane which could be good if there weren’t new forms of stall aka range.

All I know is I'm not looking forward to going back to the world of relentless textboxes that is the main series come gen X. This is so much snappier but you know this can't stick around because it would scare off the kids or something, as if kids even have the attention span for how slow the actual games are

It’s alright, it definitely could use some work though. I feel like the worst archetype right now is the physical glass cannon, while special glass cannons are amazing in it. I don’t ever think it’ll be that good for online battles though, especially with the netcode which has been pretty bad for a long time now.

>>58464522 (OP)
Definitely needs work but not a terrible start, was honestly kinda fun, hope they don't ditch it and can actually turn it into something better.

>>58464522 (OP)
I think it's interesting, but I get the feeling there's probably a way of breaking it that people just haven't found yet. There's cheese you can do with Poison and Burn, but that's only a concern with wild pokemon encounters, they aren't detrimental to the pvp gameplay. Honestly it's cool that Poison types are so good here, I can see why they made the Rust Syndicate Poison and Steel themed.

>>58464587
Poison and Burn are the best they’ve ever been but I don’t even know what confusion really does anymore. I think it just makes your mon walk weirdly, I was anticipating it being like Mystery Dungeon where you move and attack in random directions but I guess not. Paralysis is also kinda lame.

>>58464522 (OP)
It's shit. In particular that entire sneaking mechanic is retarded where they make you wait behind a bin until the NPC turns around.
The battles themselves are retarded and leaving so much up to the AI of your Pokemon is just wrong.

>>58464522 (OP)
It's fine and it works. I liked it a lot at the start of the game, but found it clunky and spam-heavy the more I played. I like how it kinda changes how effective some stat pools are, and some moves are cool in 3D space, also buffs and debuffs seem heaps better.
What I don't like is that the Pokémon can't find range; they just jump to your side and shoot.
I also think the camera is too trainer-focused for the Dark Souls dogeroll aspect. would have preferred if that whole thing didn't exist.

Overall, I think I like turn-based better still, but there is room to make this system work.

>>58464522 (OP)
It's clunky in execution like all the rest of the game, but could be fun if done by competent game devs.

>>58464649
Yeah, I agree the sneaking in the Red zone feels odd. It's meant to be a competition, and I'm just trying to dog-shot people in the back of the head.

It works for the type of game that it is, in the sense it’s supposed to be more chaotic, although I wouldn’t say it’s particularly good for 1v1. My main concerns are buffs and physical moves. The way the +2 moves got translated makes them feel pointless, because matches are so frantic that you’d rather have an attack and defense boost for a short period rather than that same attack boost but it lasts longer. I’m not sure why I’d Swords Dance instead of Curse. Besides that, physicals feel lopsided. Elemental punches feel good, priority feels fantastic, then you have stuff like Wing Attack that both takes time to start up and it has no range. On the opposite side, stuff like Bullet Seed and Rock Slide have range, but are hilariously easy to dodge although at least those are excused for the multiplayer. Anything that requires close range shouldn’t be so slow to use in most cases.

It's fun. But it's like, the game is so much wasted potential. It's a bunch of good ideas by very incompetent devs. It feels like indie devs taking a crack at Xenoblade combat flavored with Pokemon moves. Like it's almost great, but it's obviously half baked. Still fun but held back. Gamefreak needs to really just get help from another studio to execute properly on their ideas.

Using movies like Dig and Fly to evade attacks with good timing is fun. Using protect in real time is fun. The entire trainer control aspect should honestly have just been fucking thrown in the trash and they should have just let you control your fucking Pokemon. Or at the very least they need to make the positioning way more fluid and snappy. I haven't played online because I pirated it but it looks like a retarded clusterfuck from what I've seen. The core strategy all the people making videos seem to have is "lol fucking zone with Ampharos (cause everyone is just spamming Gyarados) or some shit and never engage in combat, just killsteal haha" which sounds like absolute dogshit.

>>58464649
the sneak thing was the only part I really hated when it came to trainer battles, I just opted to not interact with the mechanic at all at some point.

>>58464779
Yea it's really gay. Especially when it's like "oh, you didn't sneak to OHKO them? You're getting stunned and they get a free hit on you." You can tell GF wanted it to be more interactive, like a trainer can sneak up on you instead, but they're too bad at developing to make that work so they went this route. Just let me engage in combat normally...

Needs work, definitely. But thank fuck we don't have to sit through a bunch of text boxes telling us every single thing that's happening whilst slowing down the combat.

>>58464745
I get ya regarding pvp's flaws, the reason though why its so common to go for cheeky kill steals by either sniping long range, or by super busted moves like waterfall, drill run, dragon rush, ect. which have crazy forward momentum + AoE hitbox is because if you try getting KO's the normal way; your target will switch out to a counter-pick, thus blueballing you out of a sure kill.

>>58464788
>You're getting stunned and they get a free hit on you." You can tell GF wanted it to be more interactive, like a trainer can sneak up on you instead
>sneaking up on trainer
>okay meowstic use psybeam on it
>meowstic walks to just the right angle to where psybeam hits the corner of the wall i'm hiding behind
>oh for fucks sake
>peek out a bit from the wall to get a retard-proof angle
>ok NOW use psybeam
>trainer turns around during the psybeam startup
>trainer that i am actively looking at and attempting to attack notices me
>"You and your Pokemon were caught off guard!"
literally fucking how

>>58464522 (OP)
It's shit. The only "strategy" is spam strong moves and maybe time a switch in to dodge a strong move and resume spamming.

>>58464745
I have not seen one Ampharos online and I reached Rank A. Gyarados is very common but Garchomp is the Pokemon you need to worry about. Meta felt like it was changing on a daily basis, because two days ago there were no Garchomps and 90% of teams had Gyarados/Charizard which meant free wins for Rock and Electric attacks.

>>58464541
i will literally go on a killing spree if this is the future of the franchise. i will accept the death penalty if it means every person at gamefreak who worked on this dies too

>>58464610
I think Confused status might be useless, but honestly I can't really tell. It's just supposed to fuck with their movement but it hardly matters from what I can see. Paralysis is poor, Sleep is fine but doesn't feel like it's worth it, Freeze is a death sentence but at least it's random and you can still switch.

I wish Aegislash' form changing was instant, or at least way faster than it is now
>Start battle
>Use attack
>It takes a full second to switch from defense to offense stance on top of the attack's windup
>Enemy blocks attack
>Enemy readies super effective move
>Press King's Shield
>Get hit by the attack during stance change animation
>King's Shield blocks nothing
>Have to waste another second switching to offense again

It’s a good idea implemented poorly. Just let me control the Pokemon, add generic melee button to use while moves recharge, and add jump/dodge buttons. Hitting a projectile attack and having to wait for my Pokemon to run half way across the battle field to shoot into a rock is dumb as fuck.

It's not perfect, but it's a good first step. Turn-based games in 2025, laughing my ass off

>>58464522 (OP)
I don't prefer it over turn based. I thought it was bad at first but it takes time to get used to. It's fun but I prefer just how much more strategic turn based is.

It's unclear whether they're keeping it for Legends Galar since that game seems to be Pikmin-like

it's not perfect, and it's also not a good first step

Also targetting terrain is the most retarded idea ever and the person in charge of that idea needs to be fired. It feels fucking horrible to be targeting a Pokemon and then you switch to targetting a fucking rock (because the devs have never played a single other game in their lives so don't know how lock on systems are supposed to work, forcing you to unlock every single move and re-lock instead of LOCKING onto the fucking target)

It needs work, it reminds me a LOT of xenoblade combat but is still missing a lot of depth especially when considering xenoblade is controlling 3 guys at a time

One thing I do really like about the combat is that the "weak" moves are not outright outmatched in that they are still spammable. I kept aqua jet on feraligatr the whole game because of how fast it was to use. Just spamming aquajet then ice fang was crazy viable.

There's also a hidden stat in movement speed. Ariados was way better than it's stats would say because it walks super fast and kept hugged to your hip so it's very easy to maneuver around and avoid attacks.

>>58464836
Yeah right. Try that online on a opponent with 1 brain cell. Oh wait, I forgot you're too poor to afford online.

A massive improvement over the old system, and probably the only part I actually like about the game. I hope it remains in gen x and the classic system is regulated to Champions

I've seen a noticeable lack of complaints about the battle system.

Considering how much everyone hates Game Freak right now, if the combat did have flaws, people would be pointing them out ad nauseum. That tells me they did a good job with it this time around.

>>58464925
The speed stat itself is weird, isn't it supposed to determine how quickly your moves go off? Dragonite takes a million years to do anything but Absol hits instantly, for instance

>>58464522 (OP)
It's not as deep but competitive aside, its perfect for the single player campaign. All Pokemon games should use and refine this system going forward.

>>58464522 (OP)
You should be able to control the pokemon during battle instead of this retarded bullshit of running around and having it follow you.

Also Aegislash got fucked HARD and King's Shield is borderline worthless.

>>58464925
the movement speed stat is extremely important. my Doublade keeps whiffing attacks because the enemy just naturally walks out of the way, while my Gyarados and Tyrantrum are basically glued to either me or the opponent, whichever is their current priority.

>>58464876
Or we can have Burst added to the game and let whoever has the sharpest fangs win.

>>58464925
in ranked battles, priority is very much used because your pokemon "teleports" to the opponent. metagross is popular because it's a strong, bulky steel type with bullet punch so therefore you can "teleport" to your opponent and spam stronger moves in their face

>over in 5 seconds
Woulda been great if they fixed this

>>58465039
>Digimon frontier was so unpopular it nearly killed Pokemon's greatest competitor
>Pokemon decides to copy it like 10 years later

>>58464876
pokken but slower
would actually be fun

It works for a spin-off like Z-A but it's way too simple for a mainline game

>>58464522 (OP)
It has potential but it's extremely poorly implemented and lackluster in it's current form. Feels far too gimmicky and at times straight up stupid. Too many things that can be exploited, poor quality animations, effects, bad AI, etc.

give the pokemon there own dodge button and it's good. Right now it's just whoever can spam moves faster and tank through damage.

I think I'm bad because at the end of the game it feels as though everything one hits my pokemon and I deal negligible damage to them and have to spam potions and revives.

>>58464522 (OP)
Almost impossible to compare it to turn-based because it's so much more complex. It's pretty janky but I like the foundation they've built here, there's a surprising amount of nuance. I like that there's essentially subcategories of moves now. Moves that require line of sight, moves that hit the opponent directly, melee attacks, AoEs, lingering hitboxes, etc. I think where it falls flat is the actual maneuvering of the Pokemon themselves, if they're gonna make a battle system that is so dependent on positioning then they might as well have gone all the way and let you control the Pokemon directly. I get why they did it the way they did, but I wish that you could just control the Pokemon itself in trainer battles since the player's position doesn't matter anyway.

tl;dr promising start, hope they build on it and work out some of the jank

It's cool, but what we need is 3rd person Pokémon control. Getting your Pokémon to move is rather clunky, and maybe i haven't got the hang of it yet melee seems much easier to control than ranged. When I try to use ranged attacks, they take a bit of time moving to a new place.

so many times have I wished I could tell me Pokémon to dodge an attack in the same manner that I can.


With that said, I'm having a blast. The gameplay is the only thing keeping this game afloat.

>>58465526
>I like that there's essentially subcategories of moves now.
The same goes for Pokémon mobility. Even when exploring to catch Pokémon or mine Mega Shards, there are Pokémon and moves that does the job far better than others, or in some cases of the jank, at all.

>>58465450
>own dodge button

Bro, your protect/detect/fly/dig/bounce/double team???

>>58465582
>so many times have I wished I could tell me Pokémon to dodge an attack in the same manner that I can.
Oi bruv I wish I could tell me pokemon to dodge the cunt's attack mate

They just needed to make spikes and traps more powerful. Vinnie was the first trainer fight I had to actually move around because half the field was hazards

>>58464522 (OP)
there's less strategy than before but it's more fun for casual play

>>58464825
If your facing them, you won't get caught off guard, just challenged. if you turn away at the last second it will trigger the ambush effect.

Things I'd like to see to refine this battle system:
>Add abilities again
>Let us actually move our Pokemon in battles, the trainer darksouls roll gimmick is retarded anyway and is just annoying
>DON'T have us battle on rooftops unless you know how to actually fucking program an AI that can resist jumping off the building 80% of the time
>Streamline/smooth the animations so they feel less fucking robotic
>Give Pokemon a dash, where speed stat probably shines a bit more via faster cooldown (no iframes)
>More field altering moves - it's cool having spikes on the ground to control a little and we need more stuff like that imo
>Better targeting system, which ties into just not fucking controlling the trainer so there's no need to "unlock" from a target you're focusing on anymore to do a dodge roll

Much more fun than I expected it to be. It does get pretty mindless once you've got a team built, but I'd rather have this quick and snappy mindless than the mashing through textboxes mindless we've had for the past two decades.

>>58465728
>no abilities
THAT'S probably one of the reasons I like the game

>>58464610
The description in game says it makes it so your Pokemon doesn't always go where you tell it to when selecting an attack. I'm sure there's some fringe cases where that actually matters, but for most it doesn't.

>>58465728
>>58465751
Yeah, I have mixed opinions on abilities.

Like I actually hate the ability system itself, a lot of the special powers that were gimmicks for specific species I really liked. Junk like wonder guard, Forecast, or any other ability that was just 'part of the pokemon'

Hopefully it gets reworked in some way.

There should be a 5s global cooldown on damage moves so you're not just spamming everything off cooldown

>>58464554
I mean, there's ways to make turn-based combat fastier and snappier than Pokemon's been doing it. The problem as always is that there's never been any financial incentive for GF to meaningfully upgrade their 30-year-old combat system in any way.
I don't dislike real-time combat, but ZA's system is just a mess of mindless buttonmashing with MMO cooldowns. I don't know what >>58464987 is smoking, there's been a ton of complaints about it, including in this very thread. It's just taking a back seat to how repulsive the graphics are and how egregious the handholding is since those are the first things people notice.

>>58465728
>>Add abilities again
It sounds like a good idea, but you could also say "read all these moves". The complexity of abilities can stay in the mainline games since we have actually control overt moving. If they bring it back, it needs major pruning. Please, no intimidate/regenerator bullshit.
>>Let us actually move our Pokemon in battles, the trainer darksouls roll gimmick is retarded anyway and is just annoying
yea
>>DON'T have us battle on rooftops unless you know how to actually fucking program an AI that can resist jumping off the building 80% of the time
I think it's charming how stupid it is. but I don't think anyone would argue wanting to battle out in the wild again.
>>Streamline/smooth the animations so they feel less fucking robotic
pretty huge ask to add 2-3 more animations for each attack for each Pokémon but I agree
>>Give Pokemon a dash, where speed stat probably shines a bit more via faster cooldown (no iframes)
no thanks, I think the speed system they have now is pretty good, having speed demons take over the game again would ruin it. movement should be tied to moves. high speed pokemon
>>More field altering moves - it's cool having spikes on the ground to control a little and we need more stuff like that imo
agreed
>>Better targeting system, which ties into just not fucking controlling the trainer so there's no need to "unlock" from a target you're focusing on anymore to do a dodge roll
I know It's for balance reasons, but being able to use wish without targeting would be silly strong.

I keep seeing people saying they don't want to control the trainer and want direct control of their monsters but I think that's a skill issue. I would like to see a method of commanding a monster to reposition instead, being able to switch targets before an attack animation starts during the charge up animation. I also don't understand complaints about the lock on as if you can't swap targets without unlocking from your current target, the real issue is being unable to use attacks that don't require a target without locking on.
otherwise I think the current system is a sufficient base to make more exploration focused titles around, and autists can transfer mons to Champions for their legacy turn based battle fix.

>>58464522 (OP)
I’d almost rather them double down on it.
I dont need to run around as my trainer in a battle pointlessly, switch the controls to the pokemon and i can dodge and attack ‘as’ them. I think theres something to be tried there.

>>58464522 (OP)
It's Jank as fuck

Battle system is fun, but the multiplayer mode sucks
Boils down to pick tanky pokemon or die

Do wild zones have different spawns at night or are 1-2 of them just insanely rare

>>58465949
Wrong thread, but some wildzones have different spawns at night yeah

>>58465949
Both. Some spawns are day/night exclusive, others are just rare regardless of the time of day.

>>58465856
I think in theory it works but it's so janky that people keep begging to just play as the pokemon. It's not really skill issue when your pokemon paths into a fucking wall on the way over to where you control them to be, just because the game's AI was programmed by monkeys.

>>58465856
>I keep seeing people saying they don't want to control the trainer and want direct control of their monsters but I think that's a skill issue.
Well yeah, sure. It's a new system and 99% of anyone playing isn't particularly good at it yet. Obviously with time people will adjust and get better at it, that doesn't make the observation that moving the Pokemon by moving the trainer is pretty janky any less correct. It works well enough because there's valid reason to need to control the trainer in normal gameplay, but in situations where you don't need to control the trainer there really isn't a good reason for you not to just control the Pokemon directly, outside of immersion. And I struggle to consider that a good reason anyway.

>>58465949
funny enough some depend on the current weather too like helioptile only shows up when the weather icon is just a sun and not the cloud with a sun

>damage-type moves share cooldowns
>pikmin-esque way to guide pokemon instead of just following you
>moves like substitute forcing taunt until they disappear
>more hazards and have them occur naturally in the wild
There fixed

>>58464522 (OP)
After 30 hours and finishing the game, I never at any point enjoyed it. Some moves that are supposed to be good are useless and vice versa. Controls in the battles are janky as fuck and never feel good. Maybe if they added more control, dodge mechanics, maybe a charge attack that you can animation cancel out of it could be alright. Anything to make it feel more responsive. Currently its the worst system a real time combat game can have.

It's fine. Reasonably fun as a one-off mechanic. It doesn't come close to the turn-based mechanics. I don't want the next Legends to be real-time. If a main series game ever abandons turn-based battles, I will permanently give up on Pokemon. It's a very strong red line for me.

It's fun, but too spastic. All I'm doing half the time is mashing buttons. Stat buffing moves rarely feel effective because it would be more effective to land an attack in that time when the option is

buff and attack
or
attack and attack

>>58466545
Buffs should last a lot longer than they do

>>58466545
What the fuck is the point of buffs when everything just gets oneshot lol. I feel like a kid again putting nothing but attack moves on my mon because buffs just don't feel rewarding. But then again I'm still not done with the game and I guess buff moves are always a bit lackluster for single player play. Do they make a difference online? Feel like the game is way to aggro to reward them, on a mechanical level. You'd need to space yourself well enough.

I feel like in order to make this battle system work and for there to be meaningful exchanges and decisions in combat they would need to redo all pokemon base stats, damage calculations and multipliers.
But that would be too much effort.

>>58464522 (OP)
It's a barely tested mess, it's one of the reasons people will say tech demo. The pokemon aren't even using navigation of any kind to avoid obstacles so outside of story battles, where you get a wide flat surface, its awful. This is somewhat balanced by the fact that it doesn't matter if you miss an attack to an obstacle because 99% of battles are easy, nothing really matters because braindead spamming moves on cooldown wins all battles.
I think it could be a great system if improved upon but with game freak's track record to try things like this and forgetting about it in the next game it means we will get another different half-baked battle system on the next legends game.

>>58466580
You might be retarded. I'm chunking 20% of rogue mega health bars thanks to Sword Dance. Buffs are godlike in single player in this game.

>>58464522 (OP)
After completing the 1000 battles for Mable's request and getting the shiny charm, I find this battle system to be very enjoyable. How fast everything is, sneaking up on trainers and blasting them with Thunders and Heat Waves, not having to sit through a million text boxes telling me status changes, are all very nice. That said, I think the biggest problems are finding out what moves are actually good and the CPU playing frame perfectly. Stuff like Earthquake and Surf are garbage while moves like Bounce and Dig are god tier and you have to experiment with each move again to figure out if it's fast/accurate enough for the CPUs. The CPU trainers firing off moves so fast while you're still trying to lock on after all the camera animations from megas and switching is very annoying. Melee spam in CPU battles is king because of how fast you can get those moves off. Ranked battles change things up very nicely and ranged/set up plays become much more viable because of the FFA nature.

>>58466673
Rogue megas are a bit of a different story. Most of the game is not battling rogues.

>>58464522 (OP)
I like it.
Took me about 3 hours to properly get used to it but honestly it's pretty damn fun.

>>58466713
Okay, my Chesnaught with Curse is an unkillable wall that one-shots with Vine Whip in trainer battles too.

>>58464876
>>58464904
I'm a Xenofag and the way you describe it, it seem like they are missing the auto attack feature which make the game feel slow. Seeing how the leak describe them taking inspiration from Xenoblade X really makes me mad as they try to copy it but ended up doing a poor job with it. Question, what is that C+ thing? I didn't get the game (why buy it just for new mega forms, I want new pokemons) so I'm asking you guys for info.

>>58464522 (OP)
It's just its own thing, but I think they could polish it up a bit. Make abilities work around it, rework some of the moves that got fucked over in the transition. I do like the new function of some moves though. Stuff like stealth rock and other trap moves have a pretty cool application here. I think stat buff and debuff moves are kinda fucking worthless now though. Always makes me laugh when the npcs try to use them and then they get bodied instantly.

>>58465582
>The gameplay is the only thing keeping this game afloat
And the soundtrack its surprisingly good for a pokemon game specifically the battles tunes

>>58466758
That's like "mega evolved version of this move." For example Solar Beam comes out right away instead of having a long chargeup time. You can press + before selecting your move to activate it, and it uses Mega meter. It's actually a pretty cool way to make even non-megas have a chance while also making megas feel incredibly strong. You can only mega-evolve on full meter so it's a cool resource to manage now that PP is gone.

>>58466085
pathing is rough, but it's pretty easy to work around if you're familar with it's short comings, so yes, skill issue

>>58466114
>in situations where you don't need to control the trainer there really isn't a good reason for you not to just control the Pokemon directly
then trainer battles need a consequence for poor trainer positioning, maybe not blacking out severe, but at least reducing your mega energy a significant amount
maybe reset the meter for item use as well

>>58464522 (OP)
I have fun with it tho i mostly use drill run + running along excadrill so he doesn't have to reposition lol. Want to see their take on more complex moves like Trick Room.
I think what the main (turn-based) series could take from this is how they map four moves to four buttons so you don't need to waste time selecting them. Man Arceus was so snappy I hope gen10 takes the snappiness from it.

>>58467124
>I think what the main (turn-based) series could take from this is how they map four moves to four buttons so you don't need to waste time selecting them.
This also happened more than 25 years ago in Stadium. Even switching Pokémon was button-mapped.

>>58464522 (OP)
>>58464541
I'd say skill floor has come up, singleplayer content is much more challenging now.

But as the system is still evolving and needs some changes (i.e. Ageislash's form change needs to provide some form of damage resistance if not outright immunity during the animation, or offsetting the animation with MUCH faster attack speed), skill ceiling is lower, as well.

I think a system like that also needs to rework super effectiveness, otherwise it's still too much based on OHKOs... so i.e. reduce damage bonus to +50% damage instead of +100% damage... if not even less.

So if you are a competitive player you are likely going to be disappointed, but if you generally play it Singleplayer then it's MUCH more engaging.

All the uncs wishing for their 1 turn per minute system sicken me

>>58467255
I dont think anyone is defending BDSP or the friendship system. you can make a fast turn based game

>>58467263
>Hey gamefreak can make something it hasn't been able to in the past 2.5 decades

>>58467290
Legends Arceus is about the same battle speed as ZA

>>58464522 (OP)
I don't think controlling Pokemon directly is necessary, but some moves could do with having some properties that enhance their utility and/or generally make them more responsive. You've got moves built with the idea of dodging attacks built into them but their wind-ups ensure they're you can't really use them on reaction.

Being able to cancel a command would go a long way. For certain attacks, holding down the command should control the distance between you and the Pokemon in which it repositions (tab the command to have it do it next to you, hold it to make them do it from their position).

Certain moves should probably just have the base power adjusted with enhanced utility - they already did this with Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet wherein they're just Steel/Water Quick Attacks. In general, it would also probably be better if lower base power attacks had significantly lower recovery or an ability to cancel them mid-animation so they have some sort of benefit over stronger attacks.

Right now, the combat seems to favour hyper offence with naturally bulky Pokemon. I think I'd prefer something where you can properly express more gimmicky setups and more interplay between your team.

>>58464522 (OP)
It's pretty meh, just spam attacks as fast as you can for the most part with no thought head empty, some status moves are absolutely useless and others auto-win, there is no real dodging any of the attacks for the most part, your player character is able to just walk away from physical moves (except stuff like dig) while special auto-aim and usually spawn right on you (earth power) with no chance to actually dodge roll them

It's a neat idea but it's not really polished in this game. Do I prefer it over the turn based combat? Nope not at all, but I think this might be the correct way for the legends style games

But they really need to polish and fine-tune it. This current one is like two different things slapped together (dodging and rolling from arceus, battle from za) and they don't really mesh together than good

>>58464522 (OP)
Very rough and undercooked. Needs alot of work. Either direct control of the pokemon, or far better AI and more ability to influence over their actions.

If they go with direct control, they'd need a basic attack to have something to do inbetween cooldowns. While we're at it throw in a dodge and protect button. It would give the pokemon basic functionality instead of forcing them to implement it into their movesets and have every meta pokemon loadout only have 2 real moves.

If indirect, you'd need a more advanced version of digimon world 1. Ways to command them to dodge, get distance, close in, or go to a specific area. Just way more control over their position in battle. Defensive options like a guard or just protect baked into their toolkit. Maybe a few weird ones like focus energy too. Cram as many options as you can and let people really dive in and create a unique style of battle for themselves. Alot of room for skill expression.

Out of the 2 I'm more partial to indirect control. You're a trainer after all, so it seems more thematic to learn how to command your dudes efficiently over having pure unfiltered control.

They should have just used Neo TWEWY's combat system

>>58464522 (OP)
It's WAY better for the campaign. Sure, turn based is challenging when it's against a worthy opponent, but like 95% of battles in the story are literally jokes. Some guy with 1-3 shitmons and dogshit moves. All you have to do is spam A. It's mindnumbingly boring.
In ZA, battles are fun even against trainers who are a bit weaker than you. Because they don't get 1shot by almost everything and actually get to act. I feel like they also tend to have better movepools, like protect and status moves. It's just way more fun to battle randos and doesn't feel like a complete waste of time. Doesn't help that the turn based combat is also just ridiculously slow and drags on forever.
>>58464541

>>58467712
Somehow deleted my second reply. Wanted to say that I agree. Apparently, the leaks show that gen 10 might offer the choice to use either system, which would be really neat. Sounds hard to balance, though, so I wouldn't bet on then actually implementing both.

>>58464522 (OP)
Pretty fun for what it is definitely could be improved upon OST for certain fights like trainer/rival/mega fits also helps