Thread 11830212

Then how come the final game was the best?

>>11830224
Kojima go away

>>11830224
>the final game
The one with the zombies?

>>11830224
The what?

Creative visionaries and auteurs at the helm of a large-scale group project (games, movies) still often need an editor or something close to them to tell them "No"

See Mary Sweeney and David Lynch for reference.

MGSV still mogs every single MGS game besides 2.

Kojima without Fukushima:

>>11830884
ranking purely by gameplay and controls, not story/cutscenes
splinter cell chaos theory > powergap >MGSV > MGS3 = Peace Walker = Portable Ops = MGS1 > MGS 4 > MGS2

>>11830896
Really? Chaos theory is better than MGSV in gameplay? In Chaos Theory, you are limited by the "stealth" genre by western standards which means you don't have any freedom to do what you want and instead you're forced to slowly crouch walk behind someone and left click to take them down. Which is fine if you want to do that, but it is severely limiting and is outright anti-human. Kojima made it so that in MGSV, you can literally do whatever you want in any objective and it doesn't matter, as long as you get the objective done. Pure freedom. In Chaos Theory, if you even want to do things your own way, let's say, you want to shoot and kill everyone, you are most likely going to die instantly because the developers are forcing you to only play one way.

>>11830902
good

>>11830919
You are a slave.

>>11830923
sure, anon

>>11830925
Using trooncase and acting smug to appease the cool nigger inside your brain isn't the own you think it is.

>>11830928
>gets riled up
>"y-you didn't own me though!"
kek
fucking hell
would it calm you down to know I am listening to Kajagoogoo - Too Shy right now? that was my favourite MGSV tape

>>11830929
Nobody got riled up. Are you an LLM trained on 4mexicans? The way you type is odd.

>>11830930
you got me!

>>11830931
I mean it's either that or you're an actual spic.

>>11830932
Neither. Wanna try again?

>>11830934
I really doubt it's 'Neither' seeing how you won't engage in actual discussion and tried to larp as a coolchilloldfagmillenialwhoistoocoolforanyofthatvideogamenerdshitlmfaooooohavesexincel as a one up on me because I disagreed with you. It's also apparent that I had struck a nerve in calling you a mexican because you switched from the trooncase style of writing which you have been responding to me with, and after the moment I called you a spic, you now type with proper grammar.

>>11830945
>you won't engage in actual discussion
what do you want me to say anon
>CHAOS THEORY IS TOO SLOW FOR ME!
good
it's a stealth game
>YOU ARE A SLAVE STUCK TO ONE GAMEPLAY STYLE
good

>>11830949
and you know, I could make asinine assumptions about you based on your speech pattern and posts as well.
I can say that
>you said "troon" instead of "tranny" therefore you're that shartyfag who lurks here and says "thoughbeit" in every post like a retard
>you don't like splinter cell so you must be that mgsfag who had a breakdown in the last chaos theory thread
etc
etc

>>11830949
I will explain why I think you're wrong if you actually give arguments for your opinion instead of shoving them into a gay meme greentext format in an effort to again, 'own' me, because you're so cool and not caring because caring about stuff is for white people and you wouldn't want to upset cool nigger.

>>11830951
I am simply observing that you were using lowercase in an attempt to own me with how indifferent and not-caring you are against me but when I called you a spic, you immediately wrote with proper grammar.

>>11830961
>I will explain why I think you're wrong if you actually give arguments for your opinion
nah

>>11830963
So I assume you aren't denying you're a mexican now? Cat was out of the bag the moment you became serious when I called you a spic.

>>11830961
I think you're reading too much into it, Anon. You are grasping at every little thing you can get out of my posts to create an argument for yourself.
>>11830968
Dios Mio! He caught me!
>the moment you became serious
what?
it's not THAT serious of a discussion, anon, you seriously need to calm down a bit. I was just poking fun at you with the smug reaction images

>>11830972
>it's not THAT serious of a discussion, anon, you seriously need to calm down a bit. I was just poking fun at you with the smug reaction images lmfao what if cool nigger saw you caring bro, he'd be like 'DAMN nigga you corny asf lmao get some bitches'

How about no, you jestermaxxing SPIC. I take discussions about video games seriously because I love and value video games because they're cool neat things. Have you ever cared about something before? Or does cool nigger bar you from doing so.

>>11830979
(You)

>>11830982
Yes, you are the cool unbothered gigachad who doesn't care about anything because that's for the cornball whites. Hopefully cool nigger rewards you with a nod of approval because he saw you not caring about things.

>>11830902
Level design is part of the gameplay. MGS V has dogshit level design. SC:CT has god tier level design
>in b4 zoomer screech about linearity being bad

>>11830896
What makes 2 so bad, gameplay wise? Is it tranq headshots making the game too easy?

>>11830991
What makes the level design bad? I'm guessing you're referring to the bigger areas and not the crappy little open world outposts with only three guards each.

>>11830998
>I'm guessing you're referring to the bigger areas
We've gone over this for years. TPP's level design is a big step down from Camp Omega, none of TPP's outposts reach that level of detail and intricacy, and when there's a decently sized map like the airport or the refinery, it's heavily wasted on even more dogshit mission design and shitty loot, so there's no reason to explore maps. The open world structure works against the game and wasn't needed at all other than Kojima becoming obsessed with the concept.

>>11831002
The equipment system in PW and TPP is counterproductive to exploration. No point to exploring for new gear like in 1/2/3 if gear is locked behind the Mother Base system, although I do like how the recruitment system provides a tangible reason for using non lethal methods of engaging enemies.
Agree on Camp Omega and the open world. TPP would've worked a lot better if it was a number of separate Camp Omega quality areas instead of the empty open world.

>>11830902
finally someone said it

>>11830991
So level design is more important than player freedom? That is a very bleak way to view video games. Sure, not all games are doing the same thing and I am not irritated about that, but to me, Splinter Cell is not fun to play because it is limiting you to a select playstyle.


This is why the Metal Gear Solid games are good, because it isn't 'stealth'. It's 'Tactical Action Espionage' which means literally anything and isn't restricted by conventions like the term 'stealth' is. And you can play however you want to and you generally aren't really restricted in what you do in them.

>>11830902
>Pure freedom. In Chaos Theory, if you even want to do things your own way, let's say, you want to shoot and kill everyone, you are most likely going to die instantly because the developers are forcing you to only play one way.
The only reason you do things "you own way" in MGS V is because it's braindead easy even with all aids off. SC CT is supposed to be a stealth game, of course it's harder to play if you want to treat it like a Call of Duty game, it's meant to, it's an additional layer of challenge, if you want to be Rambo, you still have to think before hand. Having player expression is fine but it shouldn't come at the expense of challenge, that's what all these nu open world games don't understand.

>>11830902
seems pretty ironic that they called it "chaos theory"

>>11831025
>So level design is more important than player freedom? That is a very bleak way to view video games
Anon, different strokes for different folks. I can tell you're a younger anon because you're all obsessed with all games becoming part of a one big solved formula. I don't care for playgrounds as much as some others do.
>It's 'Tactical Action Espionage'
It's a fucking marketing slogan
>Uhhh no I'm not playing a racing simcade, I'm playing a 'Real Driving Simulator'

>>11830902
>>11831026
I'm of the opinion that you should be able to fight your way through at least some situations in a stealth game, but it should be so bloody difficult that learning to use stealth as intended is the easier option.

>>11831026
>The only reason you do things "you own way" in MGS V is because it's braindead easy even with all aids off.
Actually you stupid gamer brained faggot. I want to do things my own way, BECAUSE I WANT TO DO IT MY OWN WAY. If I want to have 'challenge' aka retarded tedium, I would force myself to play in a way that I do not want to. That is the beauty of MGSV (and by extension, any of the MGS games) because you can create your own path forward. If you want to play in a way where you blow shit up, kill everyone, you can. If you want to play in a way where you sneak, go past guards undetected, that is also fine. And that is the beauty of it. MGSV is not 'challenging' or whatever beloved retard gamer totem that people love to fling around. It's a painting for the players to use to express themselves. And also, Splinter Cell is not in anyway, 'challenging'. No game truly is.

>>11831029
No, it is not a 'marketing term'. It is an original genre created by Kojima which to him means anything and so he isn't just bounded by 'stealth' or really any other terminology that would mentally restrict a developer.

>>11831037
Why should you be forced to use stealth in any game? A good 'stealth' game (Metal gear solid) for instance, allows you to use other means, including stealth, to achieve your objectives. If you enjoy these games where you are forced to use stealth, that is fine. But wouldn't it be more liberating to know that you are doing stealth in a game because you are personally choosing it for yourself rather than it being forced upon you?

>>11830884
>>11830224
>anything after PO/Acid 2
>good

>>11831059
>If I want to have 'challenge' aka retarded tedium
This is not the board for you.

>>11831067
If you are seriously saying that all the old games are only about contrived challenges, you are a genuine fucking idiot or you are being obtuse on purpose.

Probably shouldn't have had that meltdown.

>>11831084
Yes, you have shown that cool nigger doesn't allow you to care about things. You are very chill and nonchalant.

>>11831071
>games are only
No, I did not say that. If your only arguments are to put in the mouths of others things they haven't said, you have to rethink your strategy.

Still, this is not the board for you since 99% of the games discussed here are full of 'retarded tedium'.
>>11831090
Subarmanite spotted

>>11831101
>No, I did not say that.
You insinuated that they are. Are the Resident Evil games, the Metal Gear Solid games, and many more games like them, just contrived challenges? No, they're not. And they're not particularly challenging either. Yes, a few 'retro' games use the medium of video games just to be contrived challenges and some of them I enjoy. But to say that 99% percent of these old video games are just contrived challenges and nothing else is such a stupid fucking position to take that I am starting to believe you're only saying that to wind me up.

>>11831115
>You insinuated that they are
Again, your headcanon. Just because I say the music in [game] is good, doesn't mean I'm just reducing all of its qualities to the music only, stop being retarded. I'm not gonna keep arguing with someone who can't stick to good faith arguments.

>>11831117
"YOU'RE BADFAITHING ME!"

>>11831125
ok anthony

>>11831128
Is this a good faith or a bad faith?

>>11831135
It's a simple (You) to respond in kind.

>>11830896
>Chaos Theory mogging MGS V or GZ
Lol, Splinter Cell fans are like battered women at this point.

>>11830902
Based
Someone had to put down this Splinter Cell bullshit. Besides Ubisoft themselves of course.

Are we still pretending the dude that wrote the Codec calls secretly wrote the entire game too? Kojima simply got worse with time. It happens

>>11831059
holy based

I like every MGS game, just some way more than others.

>>11831245
It's more about Fukushima being probably the guy who told Kojima "no" several times and contained his autism. Then Hideo became VP and did away with him.
>>11831216
>>11831256
Such organic posting. Why don't you guys go back to /v/

>>11830893
That doesn't seem different from anything in mgs4

>>11830902
The only thing I'd disagree with is that most of what you're saying applies to MGS3 too

>>11831293
Guess what, Fukushima didn't work on MGS4. So the post still applies.

>>11831303
Makes sense, but why not just post mgs4 then

>>11831298
Kids have decided that the philosophy of old games is entirely wrong and now everything needs to be a sandbox in which the player designs his own game because God forgive anyone ask the devs to do their jobs during the 6-8 year cycle they spent working on the games these days. So yeah, Splinter Cell bad, MGS 3 bad, Thief bad. Give me open world, give me LARPing, let me drown meself in a world of virtual Lego.

>>11831306
Gotta show La Creatividad's best

Only Indians post gigachads

>>11831318
BASED

>>11831307
Not that I disagree, but I think it's more than just a sandbox. It's that they want a sandbox with a tour guide. Full exploration and freedom, but also make sure that everything I need to find is marked on my map, highlighted and blinking in game and with some phantom line showing me the easiest route. It's like they want a trip to the playground with a helicopter mom. It's a mix of handholding and freedom. With such a contradictory set of needs it's no wonder games are in the state they are in

>>11831343
That sounds based

What an extremely retarded thread

'based' is not an argument

GZ was the peak of the series.

>>11831358
Unpopular opinion, MGS4 was the peak of gameplay, MGS2 is the peak of the story

>>11831371
>MGS4 was the peak of gameplay
For all 5 minutes of it

>>11830212 (OP)
But he worked on MGS3 and that one was a dud. I blame Shuyo Murata.

>>11830896
>pw and 3
>good controls and gameplay
nigga fish somewhere else

>>11831298
Nah you can do MGS3 as full stealth or Rambo your way through or mix and match. It's pretty flexible although running and gunning makes it difficult to explore thoroughly

>>11831371
>MGS4 was the peak of gameplay

It was, until V came out

>>11831371
There was gameplay in MGS4?
No joke the whole game had me thinking "ok but when does the game REALLY start?"

>>11831418
>4/5
>peak in any way
maybe in retardness

>>11830212 (OP)
It's mostly a meme.
https://thesnakesoup.org/editorial-articles/curious-case-tomokazu-fukushima/
https://www.tumblr.com/thearkhound/621110980547641344/tomokazu-fukushimas-role-in-metal-gear-solid-1
Fukushima's role gets exaggerated a ton, though he did good work that added a lot to the games, since things like optional calls were a big deal for MGS. Fukushima also the MGS1 development team pretty late (July 1997).

He was the main writer for the GBC Metal Gear Solid (Ghost Babel) though, and that game was sweet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnbj140--ws
The video from OP's image

>>11831479
Beyond the optional calls, I should add that Fukushima also helped with editing the script in places.
>mgs 1 quote
>“After the plot was decided, I had Fukushima helped me out on writing the script for the voiceovers. The harsher terms in the script, such as 父殺し/chichikoroshi (patricide) and 怯懦と蛮勇/kyōda to ban’yū (bravery and cowardice) were his contributions."
>mg2 quote
>“While there were some parts that were edited by the both of us, but if I’ll be bold to say it, all the real-time cutscenes were written primarily by Mr. Kojima, as well as all the mandatory CODEC calls. I was assigned to writing all the optional CODEC. We ended up creating around 2,500 files.”

>>11831456
We're talking about gameplay. V is flawed in a lot of ways but it *plays* exponentially better than any game in the series. It's the only MGS game that actually has fluid controls

>>11831534
V does feel great to play, yeah.

>>11831534
because it's not designed as a fucking sneaking game

>>11831618
I mean, it is.

>>11831618
>can develop a literal sneaking suit
>get bonuses for no kills and no alerts
>get the biggest possible bonus for leaving no traces
>not a sneaking game

>>11830224
No dude it wasn't.

>>11830884
>MGSV still mogs every single MGS game besides 2

OK fuck you!

>>11830893
What the fuck is this shit?

>>11830919
The fuck is your problem dude?

>>11830212 (OP)

I'm mentally tuned with Hideo and Kojima, so I know this is not true in my heart.

Fuck you and i accept your fucking concession, faggot!!!!!

>>11831358
Gameplay wise MGS 4's first 2 missions and Shadow Moses, GZ and MGS V are top tier stealth/ action. I love the opening in MGS 4's 2nd chapter where you can decide to save the POWs or let them get executed.

>>11831390
>le beloved
by retards
faggot

>>11830212 (OP)
>The Metal Gear Solid franchise went to shit after Fukushima left
Oh so Fukishima is to Kojima what Anouma is to Miyamoto, figures.

>>11831739
>>11831728
it's far too open for a sneaking game, ever since 4 it's more half baked OTS shooter with "sneaking" it's more designed now towards the OTS part

>>11831090
The joke
__________
your head

>metal gear solid
>stealth

>longtime MGS fan since MGS1, actual fucking autistic metal gear loremaster
>finally got around to playing DS
>mfw it's more fun than any MGS game

>>11833539
This. Metal Gear Solid was never about stealth. Which is clear in any Metal Gear Solid game since you don't immediately get a game over screen if you decide you don't want to use stealth.

>>11833607
That's like doing a pacifist run of doom and using that as proof that the game was never about shooting

>>11831025
Jesus, you guys are so pretentious.

>>11834320
Did writing this appease the cool nigger inside your head? I'd bet it did. Good job.

>>11830224
FPBP
Holy shit it was so good. I only wish I hadn't played it on a toaster computer on minimum settings. I did that and still thought it was great which is saying something

>>11834836
I played it on PS3 and it still blew me away.