Thread 11939430

So I have a Trinitron, and the more I research calibration, bowing, convergence, etc.. the more intimidated I get. It looks like a ton of work for what very might just cause more issues.

Meanwhile I could get a tink, set a profile and go for good enough. Is the 4k that "good enough" point? Certainly it would be better than an uncalibrated Trinitron right? Or should I just rough it out and see how good I can get a calibrated CRT?

>>11939430 (OP)
Shill thread

>>11939430 (OP)
Just get a Mister, it's better than dealing with a wire jungle for all systems.

>>11939436
Bro im just asking
>>11939440
Im retarded, is mister used with the tink, or is it a competing project? Honestly I don't know shit about it

>>11939449
Mister will emulate the system via FPGA and allow you to use a CRT or an HDMI tv/monitor.

The benefit is it's multiple systems in one (snes/nes/arcade/megadrive etc...) and you dont have to have a billion wires everywhere. Also works with multiple controllers including the originals (with adapters)

>>11939430 (OP)
>and the more I research calibration, bowing, convergence, etc.. the more intimidated I get.
imagine getting intimidated by a tv its literally plug and play

>>11939474
I mean, I'm watching dudes spin magnets on the back of an open live TV to correct convergence, among other random shit. That doesn't seem plug and play.
>>11939460
Huh, thanks for the breakdown, not sure how I missed the boat on this one

>>11939482
retard

>>11939486
Cool response!

>>11939430 (OP)
I went all in last year on a RT4K and an LG OLED. Before that I was gaming on a trinitron, a really big one.
The capacitors were starting to go and I didn’t have many options to fix it. Plus it takes two people to move and was taking up a lot of space. I decided to sell the trinitron on craigslist and go all in on the new setup.
My current setup is great. I don’t really miss having the trinitron at all. I actually watch a lot of vhs on my current setup, too.
I have a smaller CRT I break out sometimes for some nostalgia points, but not very often.
I don’t think this setup is for everyone. It cost around two grand between the LG and the Tink. I could go on but there are already the deranged freaks that come and shit up every Tink and Mister thread so I’ll leave it at that. Happy to answer any questions.
>>11939436
Deranged freak

>>11939575
>The capacitors were starting to go and I didn’t have many options to fix it

>>11939575
No shit, sounds sick. I have a kv-27fs120, and the things that stress me out mostly is the convergence. Some people say to just adjust the rings and others say to use the pots, but using the pots looks like a nightmare. You ever do anything like that?

I still want to try to fix it up since it's so small. Also not looking forward to calibrating colors and white balance, etc . In any case thanks for the info on the 4k, I've been very close to buying it a few times this year

>>11939430 (OP)
Left side isn't how d-series looks at all. You can barely see any scanlines on it and it's way more vibrant

>>11939436
This, there's nothing your average RetroTwink shader can do that RetroArch can't do already.

>>11939430 (OP)
I feel the 4K is laughably overpriced to an absurd degree, but I also feel it (or even cheaper upscalers) are rapidly becoming the only viable option as CRTs become harder to get and die out. Though you will also need a modern TV that does not do all sorts of shit to the image to mess with it and introduce even more lag.

Keep in mind, shitty input, shitty output. You will still want to attempt to deliver the best signal going into the upscaler. For most consoles a simple SCART cable will be enough, but some like the NES or N64 will need to be modded to do anything above composite. Yes, many upscalers can take composite, but it's going to look considerably worse than a RGB or HDMI input signal.

>>11939449
>Im retarded, is mister used with the tink, or is it a competing project?
Like the other poster said, FPGA based emulation box, it's as close as you can get to the original hardware without having the actual original hardware, plus it gives you multiple ways to output over analog or HDMI and lets you use your original controllers. IIRC the tinks actually have a mode specifically designed to work with MiSTer's Direct Video mode where it... directly feeds raw video over the HDMI port into the Tink, I think there is even data communication to configure/control each other a little in that mode.


The MiSTer can do some minimal filter effects on it's own, but it's nothing like an actual separate upscaler. It's great for plugging into a CRT directly, even lightguns work if you use a CRT and a SNAC adapter to use the original controllers.

>>11939612
>Chinkware cheapest of the cheap iron
For fuck's sake, at least get a Pinecil or something, they're $25 if you can't afford something proper like a Weller or Hakko. Unlike many other hobbies, the quality of your iron and solder DO matter, and you literally learn to do it wrong with the dollar store level crap.

>>11940242
>there's nothing your average RetroTwink shader can do that RetroArch can't do already
Except for not introducing lag

>>11940254
Isn't that what runahead is for? If you're using a RetroTwink on a regular LCD panel, the latency's going to be about the same as a software emulator with 1-2 frames of runahead.

>>11940254
>he thinks the 'tink has no lag
And they say this is not a shill thread lmao

>>11940261
>Isn't that what runahead is for?
Runahead is not a magic bullet, it can introduce stutter and other issues, and it's going to waste a shitload of system resources to use it on 5th gen systems with anything accurate.

>>11940265
The latency added by them is nearly zero unless you really crank up the effects, and even then it's below human reflexes

>>11940290
Shill.

>>11940242
For me it would be to play PlayStation 2 games natively. I really hate PS2 emulation and then there's the added plus of using it for my PlayStation 3 because it also looks like dog shit on my 4K TV.

>>11940290
>it can introduce stutter and other issues
On a shitbox, maybe. WOMM. (And even then, it'd still cost you significantly less to upgrade your shitbox than to shell out thousands of dollars for something that RetroArch can do for free.)
>I really hate PS2 emulation
Not to worry, it's actually in a much better state now than it was years ago.

Oops, forgot to reply to >>11940314.

>>11940303
Faggot
>>11940252
Hey thanks for this info. Yeah, I have the Trinitron and in still going to work on fixing it up, but after watching a number of calibration videos all likely never get it to where I want to get it. There's also that added factor that it's eventually going to just have age related issues.

Lucky for me I do have some really nice component cables ready to go, I have pretty much everything I need for a 4K setup besides the actual thing. I'm also going to look into the mister as well. I don't know how much I would truly need it since I already have most of my base consoles ready to go but it would definitely cut down on the cables like the other anon stated. Do you know anything about PC to the tink 4k for retro arch? I said something people do for like SNES?

>>11939430 (OP)
I just use a "bedroom TV" like a normal person. If it breaks than I'll pull my retrotink5x out of the box and use that again, unless I can get a good deal on another small CRT.
>>11939440
As someone who has both, I prefer playing on the real hardware when possible.
>>11939449
You can send the mister through the tink if you want to. I have mine hooked up to a CRT.

>>11939430 (OP)
How about you stop being a fucking loser and just play your video game? Stupid nerd ass bitch.

>>11940317
Did they make any major changes to the input lag? it was unplayable when I tried it last a year ago.

>>11940707
Not sure about input lag, but GDsx actually seems to be improving on the graphics front. This was a game ciggy often tested on /emugen/. It used to look like picrel before this fix.
https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/commit/ca5dfdd25c45900065daa15e5773a8a3d15abf22

>>11940680
>>11939504

>>11940317
How is the actual PS2 accuracy though? Like I remember games that were marked as nearly perfect having super shit graphical artifacts and missing textures and shit.

>>11940760
>How is the actual PS2 accuracy though?
ParaLLEl-GS, my friend. LRPS2 may not have all the niceties that mainline PCSX2 has, but it more than makes up for it by being far more accurate than GDsx's HLE solution.

>>11940765
However, if you want to do any uprezzing with ParaLLEl-GS, be prepared to eat a lot of resources from your GPU. Even 8x high-res scanout is too much for my 3060 to handle at times.

>>11939612
It was over 200lbs and I was physically unable to move the tv by myself. I had nowhere to put it while I was working on it, and I have zero soldering experience. But thanks for being a retarded little snark. Have fun in your incel cave!

>>11940793
Try lifting a weight sometime you fucking pussy.

>>11940794
It’s too wide for me to wrap my arms around? You responded so fast I know you don’t have a life. I bet you don’t even like life at all. You don’t even like retro games. You’re only here to tell people they’re wrong.

>>11940809
He doesn’t even know how to lift a fucking box, lmao.

>>11940813
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Loser. Thanks for bumping our “shill” thread. Now everyone can see you’re a faggot.

>>11940824
Yeah, I don’t know how to lift a box. Clearly I should hug it like you’re trying to. Also you don’t know what the word “shill” means.

>>11940830
It’s not a box, it’s a trapezoid. You can’t hold it from the bottom because all on the weight is the face of the screen. But again, you don’t know what you’re talking about. You have never handled a crt this big. Literally the largest consumer crt released in the US.

>>11940824
>>11940830
What are you both trying to accomplish here? It seems more like bickering than any genuine advice being exchanged.

>>11940838
Wow, you know your shapes! Do you know your colors too?

>>11940838
>You have never handled a crt this big. Literally the largest consumer crt released in the US.
I may be a retard who has no business in this conversation, but don't CRTs that big usually have to be carried by at least two or three people?

>>11940839
>>11940845
He’s just a loser. Take the free bumps your thread will get more visibility.

>>11940851
LOL, I'm of the opinion that much cheaper solutions than the RetroTwink exist. I mean, I guess it's cool to have a physical device that makes your games "lookin' sharp", but it seems rather pointless when MiSTer can do the same thing while also being a physical device.

>>11940849
Yeah no shit. He’s calling me a faggot for not carrying it by myself.
>>11940854
>I suddenly have opinions after shitposting ten times in a row.
Mister only puts out 720p max. It doesn’t do what the tink does. A mister can output direct video to a tink and the tink upscales to 4k. They serve two seperate functions.

>>11940303
Are the shills in the room with us right now?

>>11940252
>I feel the 4K is laughably overpriced to an absurd degree

Image is the closest FPGA I found to what Retrotink announced on their website (it says 149k on their product page).

So the price or one FPGA like this is 360 USD. Then you need to add the manufacturing and assembly for the PCB, the other components on the board, the plastic shell, the remote, testing and other things. So no, a 750 USD asking price isn't too much, given what the source material is costing.
Don't forget that this is a luxury product and perhaps you're not the target demographic for it given your economics.
That's completely fine but don't call it overpriced just because you don't fully understand what it does nor can afford it. It's just not for you.

OR you just go make something with the same (or better) performance for a fraction of the cost and charge 600 USD for it, earning you insane amounts on the markup.

>>11940863
That’s because you are a faggot for not carrying it yourself.

>>11940863
>Mister only puts out 720p max. It doesn’t do what the tink does. A mister can output direct video to a tink and the tink upscales to 4k. They serve two seperate functions.
Ah my mistake, that explains why people primarily use MiSTers on their CRTs. Still though, I think software emulation is at a point now where latency isn't a huge deal and shimmering is a thing of the past.

>>11940768
Interesting, I'll look into this, thanks! I thought that PCSX2 was basically all there was.
>>11940863
>>11940869
I'm a regular /fit/izen and I bench 245 for reps of 8, and I wouldn't want to try to haul that bitch around. It's so fucking bulky and obnoxious to many ever with. That why I trend towards smaller units even though have a bigger CRT would be badass

>>11939430 (OP)
i have never made any adjustments to a CRT TV. People didn't obsess over all that back then.

>>11940869
You’re brown

>>11940793
have you tried having friends? they can help move things.

>>11940878
>People didn't obsess over all that back then
Well I think that's for a number of different reasons. First of all the sets were brand new and didn't have a large number of the issues that they have today such as convergence, and bowing and geometry issues. Calibrators were definitely a thing back then, though kids playing on their sets didn't really give a shit as much. I think it all really depends on the age group in that time.

>>11940882
Nigga how the f do you think I got it in my house in the first place

>>11940879
>>11939504

>>11940884
old TVs didn't change. g#mers just started being guys about them

>>11940873
The direct video function on Mister makes it great to pair with a scaler, but yeah it’s internal upscaling is not impressive and better to just turn off.

>>11940894
I don't know what you mean by that sentence at all. ESL?

>>11940317
>On a shitbox, maybe.
No, it's pretty much an issue that can happen with run-ahead in general.

>thousands of dollars
Not even trying to argue rationally I see

>>11940338
>Do you know anything about PC to the tink 4k for retro arch? I said something people do for like SNES?
That sounds rather pointless, emulating on PC then outputting it through an upscaler to a TV, you can just use filters directly on the PC instead. You're still going to have all the additional lag that comes from software emulation while also paying out the nose to filter it through hardware instead of software just to display on a modern screen anyway.

>>11940863
>Mister only puts out 720p max
Shhh! Don't tell my MiSTer that I set to 1080p that! It doesn't know that it can't do over 720p!

The MiSTer can natively output up to 1440p:
https://mister-devel.github.io/MkDocs_MiSTer/advanced/videomodes/

>>11940906
>Not even trying to argue rationally I see
Alright, then what about the OSSC? That too has no lag and is much cheaper.

>>11940901
literally ask your mom

>>11940868
Buying the FPGA that way would always cost more than other methods. Even the FPGA chip alone on the MiSTer that way would cost more than getting a DE-10 board. They aren't paying nearly $400 for just the chip alone in each Retrotink 4K.

>>11940913
OSSC is a great option too, main issues with it are it takes longer to switch resolutions and tops out at 1080p.

>>11940918
My mom wouldn't know either because you didn't write a coherent question.

>>11940885
Your mom carried it for you.

>>11940951
i didn't write any kind of question

>>11940906
>Pointless
Yeah that makes sense, I was just thinking about using it for consoles I don't currently have and skipping the mister, but I see what you mean

>>11940954
Stop it. He’s autistic and has trouble picking up on simple social cues.

>>11940954
Meant statement obviously. Can you reframe the original statement so I can understand wtf you were even saying?

>>11940960
He shouldn’t have to. What he’s inferring is very obvious if the reader isn’t as far down the spectrum as you.

>>11940968
lmao whatever. I no longer care

>>11940952
My beautiful, enormous mother

>>11941020
Enormous you say?

>>11939430 (OP)

Why are you talking about calibrating a crt? It's hardly necessary most of the time. Just stay away from flat crts and most problems go away.

>>11941081
I have a flat screen CRT, so it's necessary in my case unfortunately.

>>11939430 (OP)
>>11939436
Hi! Billy Mays here, have you ever turned on your vintage television only to experience bowing, convergence or any other number of problems? Sure you could spend hours researching how to repair one of these ancient beasts but just think of the headache, TVs are meant for watching

That's why today I'm proud to present to you the future of watching the past. The final solution? The RetroTwink. No more messing with dials or goofing with gauges, RetroTwink makes watching vintage laser disc porn a breeze. Simply hook up all the wires, select a profile and you're ready to go. It's that easy! We've even included extra wires and wall plugs fir a truly authentic experience. Get ready to turn any modern HD TV into a 240p master piece. Make over 6 million pixels disappear without a trace almost as if they never existed at all. It even plays all your your favorite nintendos like the Sega genesis and atari jaguar. Order RetroTwink today and I'll throw in some of my own home made vintage porn shot on beta max and beautifully restored to 480i, videos so good they'd make Bob Crane jealous.

And remember, don't order chink, buy an official twink. Call now.

>>11941059
The architect..
>>11941162
kek. please pasta this every week

>>11940468
>As someone who has both, I prefer playing on the real hardware when possible.
I got both as well and most the time I just can't be fucked dealing with the wire jungle. At this point things have gotten so good I can't even tell the difference between my cart or the mister. All my consoles are also RGB modded or capable and I have the scarts for them.

Only time I'll bring out my real hardware these days is if i want to do some sort of challenge run I'd like to record for purist sake or if I want an actual save on a cart. I just can't be fucked having wires from the console, the upscaler and then to the tv anymore for multiple systems out at all times.

>>11939430 (OP)
you don't actually need to adjust a CRT at all. It's just another case of guys making a thing something to do because they don't have anything to do with it, old games not being very fun for very long, which is why most folx got rid of them the first time around. Newer games like Halo CE hold up better than most of 3st and 4rd gen, and that is best played on newer display tech

>>11941330
Hmm I appreciate the alternative take on this. I guess for me I'd still be really irked by certain issues, especially related to bowing, but I do see your point too

>>11939430 (OP)
No thanks, I don't want to buy your product.

>>11943820
- CRTs are no longer produced because they have inferior picture quality versus LCDs
- CRTs emit dangerous levels of X-rays or other forms of radiation
- CRTs always have easily-visible flicker
- CRTs always cause eyestrain
- CRTs always make a high-pitched squealing noise
- CRTs contain lethal amounts of electricity, even when unplugged
- CRTs need calibration more than two to three times a year
- Overall CRT black levels are not superior to LCDs because ambient light ruins CRT black levels
- Analog CRTs have more processing time than digital LCDs due to poor RAMDAC performance
- Afterimages caused by phosphor decay are extremely annoying and are a significant downside of CRTs
- Sending an improper mode (resolution or refresh rate) to a CRT can cause permanent damage
- CRTs cannot have touchscreens
- 4:3 is so bad that nobody should use a non-widescreen CRT
- The Sony GDM-FW900 is the only CRT worth owning
- Curved CRTs have objectively inferior picture quality versus flat CRTs with otherwise equal specifications
- CRTs should not be used because they are heavier and deeper than LCDs
- CRTs have severe reflections because they do not have matte coats
- CRTs can be permanently damaged by nearby magnets
- Analog signals limit a CRT's resolutions and refresh rates and negatively effect picture quality
- Heavy metals are used in CRT glass to reduce radiation
-Your CRT will die before you've had sex

>>11943886
>Need to calibrate CRT TVs more than two or three times a year
going to ask for a source on that one big dawg

>>11943886
Look. Basically I'm just not gonna buy your product. I know.. UGH I know.. IM SORRY! It's just that I'm not getting it is all. Hahahaha.

>>11939430 (OP)
i dont understand why you retards waste your time with this nonsense and "shaders". if you just play things at the proper zoom level, theres no need for any of that.

>>11944309
Like me shaders, like me scanlines, ate jaggies, simple as.

>>11941162
Billy doesn't talk like that, dumbass. HE TALKS LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME.

Just get the 5X if you are centered around your normal TV for retro gaming. Everything looks great on it, but of course you'd be sitting back from the screen playing these in motion so feel free to nitpick every pixel as if you'd be playing frame-by-frame with your face a foot away from the screen.

>>11944614
PS2 games are with the Retrotink truly shines and IMO it looks better than the constant flickering on a real CRT.

Here's direct capture of MGS2.

>>11944618
another direct capture of PS2 footage from the 5X

I think it looks even better than emulation rendered at higher resolution.

>>11944618

>sniiiiffffffff

>>11944618
Bruv it makes me want a tink

>>11939430 (OP)
There's a shitload of ghosting inherent to modern displays and it seems that everyone has just been conditioned to accept it as normal. Even using Backlight Strobing/BFI at high Hz, we have yet to achieve the motion clarity that we had decades ago on CRTs

>>11945260
Have you tried a recent OLED?

CRTs ghost much more if you load up TestUFO and set it to cubes.

>>11945260
Maybe I'm lucky but I barely ever see ghosting unless it's insane egregious.

>>11939430 (OP)
i dont understand why anybody would do that or care so much, but i grew up with RF on CRT and it looked good enough. Composite looks fine on my 28 inch, S video looks too clean.I have no idea what a retrotink even does, as you were.

>>11946101
>Composite looks fine on my 28 inch
Because you have high tolerance for low standards.

>I have no idea what a retrotink even does
It just stretches and upscales the image to not look like ass on bigger tvs.

>>11946101
28" is not a common size. Did you mean 27"?

What else could be smaller than you say it is eh?

>>11939430 (OP)
Holy shit, you're literally just comparing the same apple to the same apple at this point.

>>11946163
>It just stretches and upscales the image to not look like ass on bigger tvs.
The point is that it is fast and essentially lagless, and it can dynamically change resolutions and interlacing without dropping the signal just like a CRT would handle it.

Retrotinks are basically for people who have a central large modern TV as the center of their entertainment, so that they can play their retro games without lag and looking great.

>>11947363
What? Lmao... Not remotely the same the fuck are you talking about

>>11947414
>and looking great
Subjective. Stick to emulation for that.