Thread 11966313

>rewards patience, hardwork and planning
>punishes impatience, laziness and lack of knowledge
I don't get the hate, it seems people are mad numbers going up doesn't mean they are automatically a flying nuke throwing god that trivializes the whole game.

No-one cares about stats. The issue is the horrendous enemy scaling. Encountering a group of bandits is like someone getting out of their solid gold car to mug you for your phone.

>>11966330
> Encountering a group of bandits is like someone getting out of their solid gold car to mug you for your phone.

They bought the gold car with all the phones they stole and now they need to pay for gas.

no idea about oblivion but games with autoscaling enemies tend to be super fragile and break easily
>oops you accidentally explored that dungeon a little too much and leveled up higher than expected
>now all the random encounters are going to wreck you because your level is too high relative to your gear

>>11966313 (OP)
>I don't get the hate
You've summed it up perfectly. The part you don't understand is that becoming a "flying nuke throwing god" is fucking FUN, and it's what most people expect from RPGs. That power ramp where you start out weak, and eventually become a force of nature? That's a hallmark of good game design.

>>11966360
It's only fun for a while.

Being a flying mage in morrowind gets boring after a while and being a one shot stealth archer in skyrim gets boring after a while too.

Might as well play Pokémon with only your level 70 starter too

>>11966363
About as fun as just playing on easy difficulty

>>11966359
I remember basically bricking my FFT save file because I powerleveled Ramza a little early on.

>>11966313 (OP)
>I don't get the hate
People usually play more CRPGs than Oblivion, Skyrim and Mass Effect

>>11966363
Tbf I get bored with nearly every game I play after a while. It's just something I've come to accept.

>>11966313 (OP)
>I don't get the hate
Doing anything (even running or jumping) can lower your stat gains on level up. Now you have to micromanage every action you perform or else you risk the enemies severely out scaling you.

>>11966419
>Now you have to micromanage
Unnecessary OCD.
Some enemies outscale you regardless because player's damage caps around level 20 and they keep scaling past that level.

It's best to end playthroughs around level 20, unless you level cap enemies with mods.

>>11966313 (OP)
Just play the game however you want and when the level up screen appears click the ones you want. It doesn’t have to be more complicated than that. Minmaxing Bethesda games is retarded.

>>11966330
>Encountering a group of bandits is like someone getting out of their solid gold car to mug you for your phone.
lmao

>>11966330
The issue is the loot scaling and loot randomization and respawning cells makes exploration mechanically pointless. Game design that deeply undermines its own strengths. Oblivion designers were fundamentally not intelligent people.

>>11966557
What? It's like Diablo and eveyone loves that shit
You go to dungeon, you come back with some or even level or stronger shit instead of being a 60% chance of all being trash, a 30% chance of good stuff and a 10% chance of legendary stuff like morrowind

>riding out and facing bandits while your horse doesn't even have armor
ngmi

>I just want to be a wizard...
>HERE'S 9 BILLION ABILITIES WITH LITTLE TO NO DESCRIPTION TO CHOOSE FROM

>>11966570
Some folks get pissy when they can't look up guides on where and how to cheese yourself the best gear

>>11966570
Not really similar at all. Diablo 2, and many ARPGs, are gamba farming games with a much more interesting and varied itemization and movement, not built around freeform roleplay and exploration of an open world. The idea of TES is that you can go anywhere and explore anything without direction from quests, but outside of quest locations almost any location in Oblivion has the same shit as any other location and considering the limited assets, you don't even get rewarded with much of a vista.

>>11966615
This is some very funny cope.

>>11966330
By the time they're powerful you should be able to easily destroy them. This sounds like a console kiddie complaint.

>>11966619
He is right though, I know the type, zoomers that check the wiki of the game they are currently playing

>>11966624
People being guide and wiki addicts, of all ages, since GameFAQs has no relation to what I was talking about.

>>11966313 (OP)
i don't even get what you're talking about. stats being selectively buffed upon level up? that's not a bad thing, if anything it makes rpgs easier than just stats going up by default in my experience since you can just spec into pure offense or selectively intelligence/luck with speed for the main character just in case.

>>11966313 (OP)
look i love oblivion but i've long accepted its major flaws. too many skills level up too slowly and require grinding. having to avoid using some skill in weird ways like taking off your armor to avoid leveling it and fucking up your next level is also stupid. it makes min-maxing a nightmare. you could argue you don't have to do that and you're right. the game is actually not even difficult to begin with. but the fact is i just like to min-max.

>>11966623
No shit but the point is that it's retarded to have bandits running around in glass armor you dumb fucking stupid nigger idiot

>enemies level up with you.
I'm not entirely against the idea. Maybe have half of the enemies or at least certain enemies stop scale, or cease to scale after reaching a certain point. But what really sucks is this:
>you're never "underleveled" for anything, nothing is clearly way stronger than the player
That pushes things too far and makes the RPG world feel like its coddling the player too much, and this is on top of a "use whenever you like" difficulty slider.

>>11966623
If you should easily destroy them when they're scaled up why scale them at all. Just leave them alone. Scaling mobs in RPGs is retarded.

>>11966610
Over-custimization ruins a lot of games. I don't want to spend 4 hours playing with sliders to create a character, I don't want to reference an encyclopedia when selecting skills, I don't want to spoil the entire character progression so I know how to do a build that's viable at endgame.

>>11966610
>>11966903
>class: mage
>birthsign: mage
Phew that was hard, I had to look up 3 guides to make sure I was properly minmaxing

>>11966381
Anon if you didn't softlock your save in ff tactics at least once it means you played it without a guide like an actual human being.

>>11966967
>if you didn't softlock you played without a guide
>if you played with a guide then you softlocked

>set difficulty in the middle
>gain like two levels
>takes 100 hits to kill a common guard
the game has its charms but you are medically retarded if you defend this

>>11966313 (OP)
>"rewards patience and planning, punishes impatience"
>if you dare make a non-standard build where you level up Alchemy or Acrobatics enemies will one-shot you three levels from now

>>11966842
Why? They are just the more successful bandits. Morrowind did this correctly though, at least better. I will give you that.

>>11967058
>be alchemist that's too retards to abuse buffs
>be acrobat that fights instead of fleeing
Sounds like you are just dumb

>>11967073
>"rewards patience and planning"
>by that I mean you need to know the meta ins and outs and go into it with them in mind over immersion and roleplay
I see

>>11967086
>over immersion and roleplay
Why would an alchemist or acrobat face a powerful enemy head on? You're not even doing your dumb gay ass playing pretend shit right...

>>11967098
Why would a crab take out an adult male's entire healthbar while he's picking up nirnroot?

>>11967116
Aren't crabs like territorial and aggressive?

>>11967131
That would explain why they attack but not why they could take out an "adult's healthbar", though I don't recall regular Oblivion mudcrabs scaling like that.

>>11966994
Read it again esl

>>11966624
There used to be an entire industry around selling strategy guides and phone line tips. I hate zoomers as much as the next sensible man, but the issue predates them.

>>11967139
>if you didn't softlock [...] you played it without a guide

I know this is hard, esl-kun, but you're just digging yourself a deeper hole

Bethesda is too retarded to make a game where you naturally go where you’re supposed to go and instead throw in bullshit “you can go anywhere” and then try to punish the player for doing that but in every game players figure out how to break that shit so when they made oblivion Todd had to remind everyone who had the biggest dick in the room and went insane on the scaling to the point where any morrowind player with half a brain who knew how to deal with that shit would quit in frustration because there’s no rewards to be had, no meaningful events to experience, no fulfilling combat to engage in, just damage sponges and all of their old tools for sending trash enemies into the shadow realm were taken away and so they did what they always did and broke the game in a new way and that’s how you get Skyrim where there’s nothing of value at all because “they’re gonna break the shit anyway, let’s break the setting before they can break my game.”

>>11966313 (OP)
Is morrowind leveling system but worse.

>>11967116
Lore wise, mudcrabs are probably strong enough to dismember foes. They're fantasy giant crabs, after all.

>>11967401
What does more weapon skill in oblivion actually do then?

>>11967547
increases damage and improves power attacks

>>11967058
Alchemy is really broken in oblivion. mercantile and speechcraft are the useless skills

>>11967573
And Acrobatics is fun as fuck

>>11967570
Didn't really look like it in that vid.

>>11967420
NTA but mudcrabs arent particularly large, like, at all
The coconut crab in real life is like the size of two or three mudcrabs

>>11967116
>Why would a crab take out an adult male's entire healthbar while he's picking up nirnroot?
Mudcrabs do 8pts of damage and the lowest possible starting health is 60.

>>11967023
>>set difficulty in the middle
>>gain like two levels
>>takes 100 hits to kill a common guard
Oblivion has a setting that nerfs all enemies until player reaches level 4, only then do enemies have their actual level and stats.

Probably intended to help new players to get an easy start, but it also seems to get some people stressed about being outscaled.

Also guards are 10 levels higher than player character. Remember, they also have to contend with daedra and other dangers.

>>11968020
>Didn't really look like it in that vid.
Therein lies the ultimate issue with Oblivion: you get more powerful, but enemies get more powerful at the same rate. So even if you gain a bunch of levels and get good gear, you can go fight some mudcrab or skeleton from the early game and they'll take almost as many hits (or even more hits) to kill. In effect, getting stronger is meaningless. You could even argue that the meta for beating the campaign quest is to stay as low level as possible. It's shit design.

Their thought process was basically, "we want the player to have complete freedom to explore, so we'll just make all of the enemies scale with his increasing strength", so that the player encounters a steady increase in challenge and feels artificially powerful due to fighting more powerful enemies with cooler looking equipment. This makes sense on paper, because in an ideal situation the player would go from killing the mudcrab to fighting some end-game enemy without ever returning to the mudcrab.

Except, if that's what they wanted to happen, they shouldn't have made an open world game because the entire point of an open world is that you can go back and forth between new and old areas, and providing an incentive to do so. Instead of scaling enemy strength, they should have just had the world populated by mostly easy enemies that die in a few hits, serving solely as an early leveling mechanism and a way to find resources that are useful at any level. They should have taken a Zelda 1 style approach where dungeons and deeper areas of the game are gated by the sheer strength of enemies to prevent you from advancing, forcing you to either level up or concoct some kind of 200 IQ plan to survive in spite of being weaker.

>>11967401
Dunno if I trust that webm. At skill level 5 player would do only a couple points of damage, and even that halved by loss of fatigue, against the 300hp or so of that skeleton.

Probably one of those bait webms from /v/

>>11968046
>So even if you gain a bunch of levels and get good gear, you can go fight some mudcrab or skeleton from the early game and they'll take almost as many hits (or even more hits) to kill
Mudcrabs or Skeleton stats aren't scaled.

Skeletons get different variants based on PC level. Skeleton, Skeleton Guardian, Skeleton Hero, and Skeleton Champion.

>>11967116
Would you fight this thing bare knuckled? Mud crab's four times this size.

>>11967401
It's literally "to hit," the chance that some doof with zero sword skill can out-do a skeletal warrior is slim. The animations just indicate a 'roll' and not a 'hit.'

It's the same system they used in KOTR, for instance. But more invisible to the user and in real time.

>>11968187
I can't speak for anybody else, but that thing but would doing its gay little "slow aggressive movement while making some retarded hiss sound and then striking quickly if I moved my hand slowly enough next to it" shit that 99% of animals do when fearful, and I would proceed to crush its fucking head with violent, repeated stomps from my steel-toed boots before it could pull off any kind of attack. That stupid piece of shit might be able to crack a coconut with its claws, but I'll be cracking its fucking brain with my 6 pound leatherbound goobwalkers.

>>11966623
Untrue in every fucking way. I don't care what your stats are there is no reason it should take your character 20 axe swings just to kill a skeleton. Morrowind never had that problem.

>>11968202
Redguard moment

>>11968206
It did if you picked some weapon class you had zero skill in and picked a heavy weapon at that, if you didn't have the strength for it, like say a two handed sword, and glass is heavy.

If you ever decide to level up in some brand new skill you're green at in Morrowind you will encounter this issue even if you're at a high level, you will suck for a while. This is rapidly overcome but you'd start out on rats and crabs and shit and not a higher level skeletal warrior.

>>11968202
It would snip your nipples off and have you for breakfast.

>>11968213
No, I play Nord exclusively. It's natural for the white man to curbstomp crustacean jews. A redguard would try to take it home and turn it into some form of jambalaya.

>>11968218
Boot up the game unmodded again sometime and actually try that. You'll find the scaled skeleton is still going to take way more effort to kill than it has any right to. Shit don't get me started on the Zombies.

>>11968221
wake me up when crabs have a crabernet for discussing human recipes

>>11968225
Honestly the best build is a Bosmer with sneak and acrobatics and athletics and short blade and bows and light armor. You can throw some magic in there too. Get the sign where you can turn invisible as well. Then the game becomes a fantasy version of Rainbow Six. You can eventually jump so high that you can jump into all the parts of the dungeons that keep you safe or even allow you to run the 'backwards' if you catch my drift.

>>11968234
I only use official mods in Morrowind, never any others. Skeletons are tough as nails bro, just deal with it. They are infused with demonic energy and shit.

>>11968236
I'm just saying imagine that crab I posted the photo of, but four times the size. It'd snip your balls off. Sure you can outrun it or eventually beat it with a stick. But it's a bit risky to engage it in a life and death battle. Crabs are armored and you do NOT want to get pinched even by a small one, it'll snip you like paper.

>>11968236
Crab bros...

>>11966313 (OP)
What's your most fun playstyle? I'm thinking:
Acrobatics
Athletics
Marksman
Mercantile
Sneak
Alteration
Illusion

Could get a lot of mileage out of Illusion and Alteration. But I'm also thinking going towards a Monk using fists and absorbing fatigue with Restoration.

>>11968382
Nvm, Baurus assumed my wood elf was a Thief, so I'm rolling with the preset. I might get training for Blunt to get those nice stealth hits, though I don't know how the damage will be with 30 STR. I will also need some night eye/detect life enchantments, it's so dark on my CRT I needed a torch at night to see the road.

>>11968234
Why wouldn't a zombie or skeleton be hard to kill with medieval weaponry, exactly?
They're animated by magic and are specifically, one would imagine, be meant to take a beating before going down. You wouldn't bother raising a zombie or a skeleton if any asshole with an axe could just whack it two or three times and be done with it, there wouldn't be a point to them

>>11968668
>Why wouldn't a zombie or skeleton be hard to kill with medieval weaponry, exactly?
And if they weren't, who would bother with weapons enchanted with fire?

>>11966313 (OP)
but anon, number go up is what we do in real life already, and entertainment is supposed to be removed from what we experience daily right?

>>11968668
>Why wouldn't a zombie or skeleton be hard to kill with medieval weaponry, exactly?
Well, they’re naked and lacking medieval armor, and it’s safe to assume a “raise dead” spell does just that and not also give a passive magic armor buff; maybe the necromancer also casts a quick “shield spell or somethibg. It’s the “zombie horde” or “skeleton army” where they get spooky, and maybe you can top off those undead armies with a big tough reanimated golem.
I like when skeletons have a resistance to piercing attacks, though.

>>11966313 (OP)
>incentivizes completing all content at level 10
great rpg progression design you have there

>>11967573
not really, being able to dump potions at 100% price makes a big different to your gold total, which, since oblivion is pointless otherwise, you can think of as a "total score"

>>11968668
Correct. Skeletons and Zombies have no psychology and wouldn't respond to pain. No fancy swordplay will get them to give ground, nor will anything but a completely disabling series of wounds stop them. They won't even panic if they're on fire. Fighting even one would be a huge ordeal.

>>11966615
Except oblivion does let you do this with the bound weapons, you don't even need to know magic since the random shrines will give them to you for free.
Yes it's a bug, but it also was never fixed despite being known about pretty much since release.
Oblivion's issues are all able to be overcome because there's 10 billion ways to cheese anything in the game. It's a broken mess where the challenge is entirely self-imposed. This is honestly the case for every single bethesda rpg though and I guess part of the appeal but I don't get it.

Not a retro game. But the remake did it better until my save got corrupted which hasn’t happened to me in over a decade without a power outage happening mid save.

>Talk to a redguard at the skingrad vineyard
>he offers basic archery training, but gives the name of an advanced trainer
>see a guard running
>another guy joins the guard as they chase after the redguard around skingrad county
>redguard's body left to rot in the bushes
What was their fucking problem? Can't a brotha live in peace growing grapes??

>>11969448
He sometimes steals things and guards can't put npcs in jail like the player so they just kill them

>>11969476
I checked Shameer's page on UESP and it suggested bribing him so he has money to pay the fine.

>>11968621
Pure thief is actually fun to roleplay. Last playthrough I played a straight mage, so being limited is novel. I am getting alchemy training to make poisons for boss fights, and buying scrolls if there's good ones available. Right now I'm hanging around Bruma dungeon delving, robbing houses and getting alchemy training. I'm also saving money for Monkeypants, that should be enough acrobatics to reach those welkynd stones without shooting them down with a bow.

Why did that one anon delete his posts

>>11971167
because he was banned and lazy janny chose to delete everything he posted for the last hour instead of picking up specific posts that violated a rule. welcome to 4chan.

>>11971174
>because he was banned and lazy janny chose to delete everything he posted for the last hour
But those post were up all day.. what post got you banned?

>>11966610
You just pick a magic race and some magic skills....

>>11967058
kek this

>>11967058
>enemies will one-shot
This might be literally impossible in Oblivion, even if you run around armorless with 30 endurance

>>11968382
Gamers Unbeaten used a Stealth archer-mage for the remake.
i assume a lot of munchkin gamers did that too.

if you want less planned out builds that can still be "viable" as you yolo it, just go back Diablo or most JRPGs where grinding/overleveling beats everything

>>11971795
Being one shot is not impossible but unlikely, however 2-3 shot is far more common. Given that some enemies can hit you pretty frequently it can lead to you having the same feeling of being one shot since the results are still your character being dead in less than a second.

That being said just like use magic lmao.

>>11971978
Even 3 shot is unlikely, and it would require the weakest possible character going melee with a brown bear, butt ass naked

An unprotected mage can be mauled to death quickly, but maybe that player should think about what they're doing..

And I mean they should think about defensive and offensive options, not efficient leveling or build autism.

>>11972110
>And I mean they should think about defensive
That's your problem right there.

>player character becomes a demigod by level 5
Wow awesome game 10/10
>Enemies are slightly more tanky and have better equipment at level 5
Wtf fuck this game

>>11972248
?

>>11972265
Most normies (and really most people) only really care about offense in games. Which if I'm honest is also the fault of a lot of developers who prioritize offense in games. CRPG's are one of the only genres I can think of where it's not common to just only prioritize offense.

The mindset being ofcourse that the faster you kill something the less it will hit you or something like that. Which again I can't really fault with in a lot of games, but Oblivion does give you a plethora of defensive magic options that I never see used, the alchemical ones I see used very infrequently. Most people never go further than equipping a shield and holding block.

>>11972252
Baldurs Gate does both of these at the same time.

>>11966313 (OP)
>I don't get the hate
from what i understand it's mostly aimed at the scaling because most people who play vidya RPGs are like >>11966360 or what >>11966615 described where a it's only fun if their cheeseing through everything on a meme build or some "human rail gun"-tier exploit.

it's a really boring way to play imo and you might as well just use cheats and dev console at that point.

How come Oblivion fanboys seem to fundamentally not understand criticism and make shit up to handwave it?

>>11972531
>it's a really boring way to play imo and you might as well just use cheats and dev console at that point.
You arguably don't even need to with that difficulty slider. I think it's still pretty decent and can keep you busy for awhile. I do have my issues with some gameplay and the scaling as well - mostly with how rarely it means you'll run into things higher level than you and with how it affects artifact weapons - but there's mods for those concerns these days.
I still prefer Morrowind.

>ITT: Faggots who suck at games
>>11972568
"I suck at video games, and I'm a brain dead autist who numbers go up. I lack the IQ to immerse in a fantasy world." That's NOT a criticism of the game, that's you outing yourself as a sick animal that needs to be taken to the vet and gassed. Many such cases!

Please kill yourself.

>>11972658
Case in point. >>11972568
It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

>>11972512
True.
How to put this succinctly..

>1. Oblivion has problems with scaling at higher levels (HP bloat)
>but regardless
2. The combat was MEANT to not be over in seconds, in order for offensive and defensive options to be, and stay, relevant.

Both Morrowind and Oblivion have a CORNUCOPIA of options to use in combat. Oblivion even added poisons to that list.
All that RPG combat option goodness goes out the window, IF the player can effortlessly end battles in 3 seconds.

Maybe a problem is that someone already 100 hours into a playthrough can't bother to put in effort anymore.

>>11966313 (OP)
The problem is everyone is doing so little damage

>>11973215
>All that RPG combat option goodness goes out the window, IF the player can effortlessly end battles in 3 seconds.
In the case of an early game beefy zombie, it's still considerably effortless and just takes some time. If the fight's taking some time because there's two liches in Old Mournhold that keep resummoning skeletons and casting offensive spells in between those summons, that can be different and more engaging.

>>11966313 (OP)
I LOVE that retro game.

>>11975481
My favorite retro rpg

>>11975103
Even with the early zombie, you can have a number of things to consider. You could use Calm on it to allow some time to regenerate stamina, if you're out of potions.
If the zombie is summoned, then especially you might consider Turn Undead or Dispel.

Whatever your character class could do, would be unnecessary if you could dispatch the zombie without straining yourself.
>If the fight's taking some time because there's two liches in Old Mournhold that keep resummoning skeletons and casting offensive spells in between those summons, that can be different and more engaging.
I had a similar fight with Raelynn and another Necromancer Adept.

>>11975674
>Whatever your character class could do, would be unnecessary if you could dispatch the zombie without straining yourself
It’s not a strain killing it with just melee, it’s largely a timesink and an area that Bethesda improved upon with the sequel. I’d also need a clip to see how much time is shaved off from casting calm and letting your stamina come back.

>>11975721
>It’s not a strain
>just a timesink
Same thing. Unpleasant enough to make you wanna do things more efficiently.
>how much time is shaved off from casting calm and letting your stamina come back.
It will save weapon durability and repairs, arrows and gathering them, enchantment charges and refueling them, and most importantly, your patience.

Spamming attack with 0 fatigue is extremely dissatisfying. We all know this. Don't do it.

(People did it, so Skyrim reduced stamina's importance)

>Just play the game normally
>Only get like 2 stat points on level up
>Enemy scaling kicks in
>You're basically wet tissue paper

>Min-max grinding requires you to grind a really certain way
>Wanted to get some Intelligence or Willpower? Better not fucking jump or sneak or else you'll only get a +4

It's just annoying.

>>11975748
Post your character? Class, race

>>11975749
I haven't played in years and almost called Willpower Wisdom. I think my last playthrough I dropped because I got full 100% Chameleon Glass armor and was basically playing with notarget on.

>>11975739
>(People did it, so Skyrim reduced stamina's importance)
They also got rid of durability and the damage debuff that came with damaged weapons. As a master armorer, every fight in Oblivion ended with me at the repair screen clicking like crazy: Armor and weapons were efficiently optimal for each fight but it was still annoying to do every time. Managing stamina also didn’t help much; they were still trying to figure out the pacing to their now 100% hit chance combat.

>>11975754
If you ever replay, create a specialized character and you can forget about grinding stats.

My thief maxed Agility and Speed around level 10, and afterwards I just put points into Personality and Luck. Before that I could use the Cheater's Nip power to fortify AGI and LCK by 20 pts
>>11975765
It's been a while since I played melee, but I remember really wanting those durability perks. IIRC block 50 means your shield doesn't get damaged.

I wonder if I'll regret going with the default Knight class, since it lacks armorer and athletics. Though having multiple weapon skills means I can just swap without repairing.

Skyrim did cut down on some bullshit chores. I kinda like working around this stuff in Oblivion, making the best of it, but it doesn't make for the best gameplay for the average player.

>>11966313 (OP)
>>11975481
>>11975521
as far as "modern" TES goes oblivion is my favorite because it's a solid enough middle ground between the three. it's not pretentious like morrowind and it's not as barebones like skyrim.

>>11975943
It has the best ai too

>>11975943
>pretentious like morrowind
?

>>11975739
>>just a timesink
>Same thing. Unpleasant enough to make you wanna do things more efficiently.
There's "unpleasant enough" or "more unpleasant than it should be", dropping like a fly or dropping like a ton of bricks. I don't have much interest in playing it unmodded at the moment for a fairer assessment but I recall many instances of it feeling like the latter, especially against those dread zombies.

>>11966313 (OP)
I tried raising Blunt, which is out of my Major skills and class specialization, and it increases far too slow to bother. I can't believe some folks play with efficient leveling.

>>11976089
I dunno mang morrowind tends to attract pretentious fags.

>>11976680
>>I dunno mang
That's fine

>>11967139
>esls calling others esl
What causes this?

>>11966330
Honestly level scaling across the world will never be properly balanced. Even if you have something like "The further you go off the road the higher they scale" it doesn't help if you can never catch up.

The most blatant problem in these is HP scaling vs damage, making enemies soak more damage doesn't make them harder, it just makes fights take longer.

>>11976716
>making enemies soak more damage doesn't make them harder, it just makes fights take longer.
Depends on the character. A 100 endurance with cures can trade blows all day, but that's a character without chest hair anyways.

I've never understood the complaint about level scaling in Oblivion but this thread finally made me get it. So all this time it was fags putting points into charisma and alchemy, huh?
lol
lmao

>>11977189
Pretty much, who the fucks invests in Mercantile

>>11966330
>runs out in glass armor "Your money or your life!"
>okay how's 500gp
>"Nope, 1mil because I know who you are."
>okay then die
>"Alright" runs away as a high level bandit raid pops out after you
This doesn't happen so as is its comical.

>>11977189
The play is to major one for each stat and then not level up until you get three +5s. A lot of people so that and then autistically going the fun out of the game, or make all majors skills that they never use so the never level up but my way is better than both of those.

>>11972658
lmao what a manbaby

>>11972885
it's pretty funny

oh they made 360 retro here huh? ...faggot ass board

>>11977291
Just fucking wait and plan to get those +5

>>11977189
>implying the game isn't spongey as fuck even if you focus purely on combat skills

>>11977465
Brainlet hits hard without buffs or debuffs, oblivion expects you to use all your abilities

>>11977473
>attack common guard enemy
>use ebin spells to debuff him
>whip out my ebin enchanted blade
>he now takes 35 hits to kill instead of 50
g-great...

>>11966330
scaling is definitely goofy, except with specific boss types why would a game make the players leveling have less value and potency, unless of course they're power gamers with overpowered builds. which are awesome, don't get me wrong but I doubt the devs thought players would one shot merunes

>>11972252
>player character becomes a demigod by level 5
That is Morrowind.
>Enemies are slightly more tanky and have better equipment at level 5
>slightly
There is a leveled list for creature spawns, so at lvl 5 you will be fighting timber wolves instead of ordinary wolves, and those have 3 times the health of ordinary wolves and deal roughly double damage. Also, scamps start spawning and will shred you with claw attacks because they deal more damage than stunted scamps.

Oblivion is that one game that encourages you to never level up.

>>11977557
If you can't two shot guards with magic you are doing something wrong

>>11977893
now try this without turning the difficulty slider all the way down

>>11977810
>so at lvl 5 you will be fighting timber wolves
Then at lvl 20 they're trash no one remembers encountering
>Also, scamps start spawning and will shred you with claw attacks
T. Puny breton warrior

>>11977939
>weakness to fire
>weakness to magic
>the fireball you start the game with can now 1 shot
Wow so hard, you only need a skill of like 50 to make this work too lmao.

>>11977986
>Then at lvl 20 they're trash no one remembers encountering
Yeah, they would be trash, IF they continued to spawn. Depending on the list and its setting, you will be encountering brown bears, not wolves. At that point whatever progress in char power you've made will be matched, and so you end up being in the same position as you were at lvl 5 with timber wolves.

>>11977473
>oblivion expects you to use all your abilities
>expects
Funny way of saying forces. If we are going to use it the way you did...
>expects
Oblivion expects you to play your char at lvl 3 max.

>>11977676
>awesome builds
101% reflect damage
100% magic resistance or spell absorbtion
"Awesome" builds indeed.

>>11978687
>what the fuck I don't automatically get better when my level goes up!?
>what the fuck do I have to use the game's mechanics!?!?
That's all I'm hearing here, I never had a problem with Oblivion mobs, sounds like you are playing the game wrong or made a shit character

>>11978659
I'm level 20 and I'm seeing timber wolves. Even saw a regular wolf. And rats and mudcrabs of course. Black bears, trolls.

I wonder if Oblivion is the most misrepresented game here

>>11978714
>I wonder if Oblivion is the most misrepresented game here
Not when compared to Morrowind’s hit chance.

>>11978649
>the fireball you start the game with
Just a general tip, since so many people here are struggling with Oblivion's difficulty:
Use On Touch spells instead of On Target. Way more magicka efficient, and the range is actually quite generous, making it easy to weave in and out without taking damage.

>>11978695
Reflect damage is genuinely fun, I never really understood magic absorbing it just ain't for me.

>>11979142
Reflect magic too can end fights quicker while offering protection. It's available as a mysticism spell too, but I guess that's for niche classes.

>>11978695
they're broken but awesome, no other game other than maybe bg1 & 2 had close to oblivion levels of build potency. nwn came close with certain gear combos

>>11979142
magic absorbing when working properly is basically infinite Magicka while making harmful spells do no damage, very potent for spell chuckers

Race: Khajiit
Class: Monk
Specialization: Magic
Major Skills:
>Athletics
>Block
>Hand To Hand
>Alteration
>Illusion
>Mysticism
>Restoration

Behold the thinking man's build. Are you up for the challenge?

>>11979369
Birthsign: Mage or Apprentice

>>11979369
All useful except mysticism

>>11979452
On my TV I can't see in the dark inside the dungeons, so Light/Night Eye and Detect Life are valuable.
Plus I can Dispel shields and summons from mages, spell absorption and reflect later. Soul trap could be useful for staves, but there's enough filled soul gems from loot. Telekinesis for welkynd stones.

I got to level 2 from vilverin. The only issue is the lack of Acrobatics; gameplay would be better right out of the gate.

Monster dungeons are a prime target for magical jewelry/clothes, and unarmed enemies can be blocked with h2h

>>11966313 (OP)
>removed throwing weapons
>removed crossbows
>removed spears
>removed shield types(tower/buckler/kite)
>removed medium armor
>removed slowfalling
>removed tiered lockpicks
>removed cast when use enchantments
>removed underwater grottos
>removed shipwrecks
>removed wilderness oddities/sidequest(the naked nords/robbed traders/civilians needing escorts)
>removed the unarmored skill
>removed deleting spells(fucking why?)
>less equipment slots
>less armor types
>less asian themed weapons
>less guilds(10 vs 4, five if you count the arena)
>less dungeons types(ancestral tomb, velothi tower, dwemer ruin, dunmer strongholds,daedric ruins, caves vs aylied ruins, forts, daedric gates, caves)
>daedric gates are, the main threat of the game, are copies, not just copy pasted with a bit of hand crafting but the same map reset over and over 60 times
>horses are slow as fuck
>level artifacts and loot punish you for completing quest to early
>best was to play rpg game is to not pick your class IE if you a mage play as pick combat skills
>enchanting clothes with Shield spells is better than armor rending armor pointless
>despite taking out tons of content for "balance" spell making renders tons of skill and abilities useless(chameleon/sneak 100 for 3 seconds to pickpocket, fortify lockpicking for 1 second to pick any lock ect)
>replaced chance to hit with egregious, damage sponge enemies wonky combat(no bethesda game has as good melee combat as system shock 2 before morrowind was released, let alone something like dark messiah)
Oblivion had tons of issues and was a preview of bethesda fall from grace, morrowind wasn't perfect but Oblivion either repeated or exaggerated most of it's flaws. Still the jank leveling system is the worse.

>>11979521
>don't know why that image got posted

>>11979521
>>removed throwing weapons
>>removed crossbows
>>removed spears
The rest of that pasta is irrelevant shit

>>11966313 (OP)
>level up social and bartering skills
>a few hours later the mandatory oblivion gates are literally impossible to complete
that was my first experience

>>11979574
Irrelevant to what?

>>11979574
>shit
>glorified bows
>actually criticism but then again all weapons in tes up until that point worked exactly the same more or less

>>11979595
There's no way someone is autistic enough to level Speechcraft enough to fuck themselves over

You must've been very young.

>>11979595
Maybe don't play like a chickenshit

>>11979612
But throwing knives are cool. Too bad they're kinda shit and I never bothered to use them

Morrowind isn't better than Oblivion and Oblivion isn't better than Skyrim.

Oblivion is fine but I hate how you can brick your character for just... playing the game due to how character level ups work with skills level ups.
Just makes me want to fire up Skyrim and role my character without getting punished for doing so for wanting a little QoL.

>>11979626
>you can brick your character for just... playing the game
What do you mean?

There's no shame in turning down the difficulty if Oblivion is too hard for you. It's a hardcore RPG.

>>11978714
It's people not understanding how the leveled lists in Oblivion work. You can still see low leveled mobs in certain areas even at a high level, there's also only a handful of enemies that truly scale with the player, for instance I believe the minotaurs HP value is directly tied to the player level. But something like a wolf is going to have the same HP if you're level 1 and if you're level 69. As a side note the remaster nearly halved this scaling on almost every single enemy that does this.

>>11976089
>>11976693
it's mostly the writing & setting (like there's a reason todd never acknowledges it outside of in game books) but also what >>11976680 said. the game just attracts some really pretentious faggots in almost exactly the same way shit like evangelion or metal gear attracts them.

>>11979673
>for instance I believe the minotaurs HP value is directly tied to the player level
Minotaurs have fixed health, but you probably meant minotaur lords.

Generally it's the boss type creatures with scaling health and no level cap :minotaur lords, ogres, liches, gloom wraiths, goblin warlords, xivilai, and some quest-specific enemies/bosses.

All hostile NPCs like bandits have scaling health and no level cap. This changed in Shivering Isles, which was a step closer to Skyrim's way of doing things.

>>11979682
What's pretentious about the setting?

>>11979626
I think 3 modern TES are equally great and offer different things to like

>>11971163
>shooting them down with a bow
YOU CAN FUCKING DO THAT?

>>11979521
I think they put all the dev time into the physics

>>11979685
Yeah sorry been a minute since I learned all this, I do remember the human enemies issue particularly with guards since they were 10 or maybe even more levels above the player.

>doing thieves guild
>"turn off" unneeded quest markers since the missions have information gathering
>steal the ring from the leyawiin castle and return to bravil to report success
>skrivva reminds me I was supposed to return the ring to Ahdarji in leyawiin
>"I swear the new recruits are getting worse"
Well shit maybe I do need quest markers to hold my hand

But I do love thieving in this game.

I swear to god defending Oblivions levelling system/scaling is the most retarded and blatantly dishonest hipster contrarian bullshit I have ever seen in gaming.

I love Oblivion, it was the first Elder Scrolls I played through fully played Morrowind but the graphics were so ugly it filtered me even as a 13 year old in 2003 but there's no getting around how flawed the levelling system is. The game just plays 100% better with a mod like Oblivion XP. The levelling system from FO3/NV is what Bethesda should have stuck with for all of their subsequent games.

>>11975481
>Discussion about Oblivion is allowed
>Discussion about the NDS and PSP is not
I hate this gay board

>>11980980
Because PEECEE loophole for 7th gen allows this, in all honesty you can probably just make a thread on a DS game and as long as it gets good discussion I highly doubt mods would do shit about it. The PSP is basically a handheld PS2 with a lot of games being on both, so it again is already basically allowed. Fuck jannies and go for it my negro.

>>11980973
Level by use is great, you're just neurodivergent, obsessive grinder

>>11981135
Level by use is perfectly fine, bethesda's implementation of it is not and highly flawed. With adjustments (mods) it can be greatly improved, I do not like Oblivion XP but I do like other mods that focus more on changing the leveled lists to be less absurd.

>>11980805
>>"turn off" unneeded quest markers
How do you do that?

>>11981181
Just select another quest

>>11981135

How can you make this argument, when the level by use system is what demands you to grind in the most backwards autistic way possible? If you are defending that you are the autist.

>>11981142

Even without the levelled lists, that still results in a situation where your character is only becoming more effective by brute force. A good RPG system to me, is where you craft a character that specialises in some skills at the expense of being ineffective at others; not just a character that becomes good at everything by continuously gaining levels.

XP to abstract skill gain smooths out basically every other balance issue, because you can invest where it makes sense for your character, and still just play the game normally.

>>11981437
>where you craft a character that specialises in some skills at the expense of being ineffective at others; not just a character that becomes good at everything by continuously gaining levels.
Sounds boring as fuck, if people want to be balanced at everything let them.

>>11981437
>A good RPG system to me, is where you craft a character that specialises in some skills at the expense of being ineffective at others; not just a character that becomes good at everything by continuously gaining levels.
Agreed.

>>11981442

Where is the fun in being strong at everything and weak to nothing? Were you the kid who never died when you played army men as a child?

>>11981457
Missing game content/experience sucks, why would I have to start a new character just to try some new spells or sneak? Not mentioning weapons because they all work the same.
>whataboutism
Never played army

>>11981490
I would like to add I played fallout 3 recently being a master of all weapons type character ignoring stupid shit like speechcraft, sneak and barter and its possible the funniest and most enjoyable way to play the game.

>>11981490
>why would I have to start a new character just to try some new spells or sneak

Look I knew you were baiting already but I'm not going to indulge you further if you're not going to put in at least a little bit of effort.

>>11981490
>why would I have to start a new character just to try some new spells or sneak?
Because it's fun and is why a lot of RPGs can be so replayable. Messing up a speech check and making a character attack you might lock you out of a certain reward, but passing it means you miss out on the combat encounter and possible other rewards.

>>11981502
So no answer
>>11981515
>messing up a speech check and making a character attack you might lock you out of a certain reward
That fucking sucks, makes me check the wiki to see the potential rewards for each quest, for example siding with Roy is retarded but it gets you the unique ghoul mask

>>11981546
>That fucking sucks, makes me check the wiki to see the potential rewards for each quest
It makes me want to try different things on my next character.

>>11981549
Having to start a new character just to experience 5% of new content is bad game design, might as well save before the choice and see how each plays out.

>>11981571

I know right, having to press buttons pisses me off too, what's the point when I am just gonna do all the stuff, why doesn't the game just give me it all at the start and then I don't have to waste my time

>>11981571
>Having to start a new character just to experience 5% of new content is bad game design
It's fun and good unless you're the kind of player who wants a 100% one-and-done playthrough, it makes the world feel less static, and it's more entertaining for the RPG than being given no choice at that point.

>>11981437
>How can you make this argument, when the level by use system is what demands you to grind in the most backwards autistic way possible? If you are defending that you are the autist.
No, it does not demand you to grind.

>>11981181
>>11981210
Nirnroot quest is one that has no markers. Of course, on PC there's mods to address the issue. But it seems most people like using quest markers, even if they don't like to admit it.

>>11966313 (OP)
The problem is that once you know how stats work in Oblivion you can't just play anymore because you're constantly keeping an eye on what is getting raised at the moment.
Stat points to allocate are far superior to this piece of shit system.

>>11981748
>you're constantly keeping an eye on what is getting raised at the moment.
No I'm not. You sound like an anxious person.

>>11981437
>A good RPG system to me, is where you craft a character that specialises in some skills at the expense of being ineffective at others
Except level by use does exactly this thing. You get good at doing the things you want to be good at by doing them. Yes you can become a master of everything in this system but the amount of time it takes to do so is not worth it nor is it a requirement. I feel like this system only bothers the autistic "completionist" crowd who feel it's nessisary to max out everything.
Now is bethesda's system perfect? Fuck no it has so many bugs and exploits that exist in every iteration of it. But it works well enough if you just play the game how you want.

>>11981912
>You get good at doing the things you want to be good at by doing them
Which is boring for any non-combat skill. Of course training, in every iteration of TES, invalidates all of that and you just pay to max out every skill you want. With the added detriment that continuing to play with the same style once you hit 100 in any skill now feels bad because all progression has ceased.

>>11981912
>I feel like this system only bothers the autistic "completionist" crowd who feel it's nessisary to max out everything.
It's true, just watch what the complainers say

Like here:
>>11981931

>>11981960
I don't want to max out everything. I want to play a game and use the systems it gives. Your solution is to play the game sub-optimally, which isn't fun for people who like to engage with a game fully. You can tilt at "powergamers" all you want, but you're just a e-LARPer.

>>11981912

If we were talking about Skyrim, sure, but here we are talking about Oblivion, and for the 10,000,000,000,000,000th time, the problem with Oblivion's system is more than just "level by doing". What that poster is saying is that taking it out and making it an XP system is the most elegant solution without having to alter and rebalance every other system in the game to compensate.

TL;DR Level by doing would be fine, if Bethesda were competent enough to design a game around it, but they're fucking not. They should stick to XP systems because it is inherently more forgiving on their shit game design skills.

>>11981968
>What that poster is saying is that
"That poster"

>>11981967
Uh no nigga literally just play the game how you want and you'll get more powerful, eventually you hit a cap and that's fine.

>>11981968
>more forgiving
So you're one of those retards that leveled up pussy skills like mercantile and come crying.

If you are dumb and can't get through your head combat skills are like important in a game where there is a lot of combat, you may be just dumb

>>11982130
Nigger you are the one who is too dumb to get this

Literally not one person has ever even intentionally tried to level up mercantile, you spend half the game selling shit to vendors, it's unavoidable to level mercantile

Bethesda games are forever gonna suck and need to be fixed by modders because their fans are retarded fucking subhumans like this

>>11982286

oh and inb4 the response will be:

>well don't sell shit to venors lol filtered skill issue

like you think going through a game saying "oh shit I better not sell this cool expensive item I don't need because that would level my sales skills and I need to level my sword skills instead"

these fucking retards man. Retards is the only word. In the 90s these people wouldn't have had the internet because their third world country full of inbreeding shitskins wouldn't have had it.

>>11982086
Uh no nigga literally the game becomes boring when it hits the cap fr fr. You call dis shit completionist and shit but it's like how the game is literally designed bruh. Dam u dumb.

>>11966313 (OP)
>encounter a bandit near a cave entrance
>they summon a ghost
>suddenly they turn right, as
>a conjurer runs from the bushes and demolishes the bandit
It was the spell tomes DLC conjurer, but the weird thing is I'm already level 8, why did he appear only now

My point is that Oblivion sometimes has these fun unexpected moments, even though there's no real advanced systems for it.

>>11982286
>>11982292
Mercantile levels up slows as fuck, never had this problem

>>11982305
Ite mang u do be makin sum gud points doe. Dat sheit ain't cuz o dat level shit das jus da game suckin' like a mfn hoover nowutimsayin

>>11982343
It has to be the slowest. Even being a major skill with stealth specialization. Thankfully 50 mercantile is enough for me.

Hieronymus Lex is a lovable dude
>what? I've been reassigned to Anvil?!
>well honor and duty demands it
>maybe fate brings gray fox to anvil
>*leaves immediately*
>*gets interrupted by NPCs for random convos*
And you know he really does walk to anvil. I followed him a bit just to confirm. I'm so used to games teleporting NPCs so I'm kind of impressed.

>>11979521
>turned a pc game into a console game

>>11966313 (OP)
>I don't get the hate
It's too easy

>>11966313 (OP)
>>11982569
Stats don't mean anything in the game
You can literally lockpick anything from lvl1.
Not even skyrim did that shit

>>11975481
Unironically this

>>11976716
>The most blatant problem in these is HP scaling vs damage, making enemies soak more damage doesn't make them harder
It kinda does. The more HP they have the longer you need to fight without mistakes

>>11983004
>The more HP they have the longer you need to fight without mistakes
True, and it should be obvious. It also means consuming resources. Relevant story:
>in a forest, cave entrance
>a goblin sentry survives a sneak attack
>now all 3 goblins are aggroed
>look through inventory for items to make fight easier
>switch to an enchanted bow
>potion of luck
>poison the bow
>move up a hill to gain some distance
>a timber wolf aggroed on goblins
>hear giggling
>look around
>find TWO black bears, side by side
>the other one is spriggan's
>use a scroll of summon zombie
>bears are dead, go back to the direction of goblins
>recharge enchanted bow with a soul gem
>spot the spriggan going after 2 goblins
>snipe the gobs and then deal with the lady of the forest
>boy, that escalated quickly
>swim to Bravil
>pay for repairs, buy arrows

>>11976716
>making enemies soak more damage doesn't make them harder, it just makes fights take longer.
Depends on the game. It can make a huge difference in games that are balanced around scarcity.

>>11982571
>Not even skyrim did that shit
you're thinking of fallout 3/nv. Skyrim let's you lockpick master locks at any level.

>>11982553
Kek, yeah he really is a memorable dudley-do-right kind of villain from that game.
I like how he's clever enough to know that even if his informant was framed for stealing the bust from the Leyawiin chapel, that she'd still be useless to him since the Guild clearly knows she was an informant because they had framed her. IDK, that was a bit more clever writing than I expected from Bethesda.

>>11983283
It's cool they didn't make him an incompetent buffoon. I mean he gets "hired" to Anvil because he IS good at his job.
You can also visit that informant in jail. And it's neat how the elder scrolls are foreshadowed, as early as Castle Leyawiin. And how you can spot The Stranger at Anvil Castle. Cool details.

Also I killed a bear with a shortsword without taking a single hit. I have mastered Oblivion.

It's an open world game where you organically perform the same actions over and over but certain actions level much faster than others, certain actions have very high value per use so they aren't used as much which makes them level slower, and other actions are used all the time. Bethesda was aware of potential issues with this so they set xp per action for each skill but the values assigned are completely fucked for some skills like magic where you typically have very high value per cast but very low xp gain per cast.

One example. You put restoration in major and you can cast one big spell that fills half of your health bar at once and you barely earn any healing xp because it's purely per cast xp, the remaster actually fixes this. You keep lockpicking as a misc skill but the game has so many chests it eventually surpasses your favorite major skill because it literally takes over 7,000 casts to get Restoration to 100 organically with it in major and with magic as your specialization, and that's one school of magic. Your cleric rp is a better thief by virtue of arbitrarily assigned numbers under the hood and the only silver lining to probably never seeing Restoration mastered is that you don't need it. I don't consider, "Well you don't need to actually engage with the system fully anyways" a good defense of a system.

>>11981210
Unfortunately, that doesn't fix the problem where the dungeon's icon appears on the map.
>>11981707
I would like it if markers appeared only when you are very close to the destination.
But even with mods you can't make it at least similar to Morrowind.

>>11983472
>>11983520
Complaining just for the sake of it?
>Your cleric rp is a better thief
Show proof of your cleric rp's stats

>>11966570
Not even close.
Imagine if the mobs of the first area scale with your level so at level 40 with maxed stats they still can kill you and takes 5 fireballs to kill one, in normal difficult, not hell.

>>11983606
You still one shot low level mobs in oblivion though, it's just they are replaced with high level ones, but if you ever find a wolf or Imp they are going down in seconds

I learned you can hold multiple greater powers from those heaven stones, in addition to one birthsign stone.
I looked the first two, but maybe I'll try to find the rest on my own, and make notes while I increase my fame.

There's really no shortage of ways to make your character powerful.

>>11966330
The funniest is how bandits will kit themselves out with gear that could buy a whole city block if sold and can tank any foe short of the PC, the Imperial guard and blades will always be wearing basic mass produced trash cans regardless of their level.

Genuinely wonder what the fuck Bethesda were thinking when they settled on that.

>>11983641
If we first assume the devs didn't think it was ideal either, it may have been a hasty compromise to ensure that bandits are challenging and that loot is easily available without investing large amounts of time.

If we toss realism concerns completely aside, looting bandits is fun in a video game.

I recall Todd Howard speaking about the difficulty of getting loot rarity right, and you can see it in Oblivion. Chest loot is disappointing, bandit gear is unrealistic.
Their later games made improvements.

>>11966313 (OP)
I'm convinced that Oblivion was designed for 30 Endurance characters. I even had to use a waterbreathing potion because endurance affects how long you can stay underwater.

A warrior should be okay without raising endurance, so I really don't understand the autism around efficient leveling.

>>11983641
You can't even buy a house selling all of that guy's set

>>11983641
>Genuinely wonder what the fuck Bethesda were thinking when they settled on that.
Killing them was meant to be profitable to you. That's all.

It's not like any of the Realms have a real working economy.

>>11985120
>elven shield
>glass cuirass and boots
>daedric mace
It won't be in Skingrad but there are some houses you can get with that.

>>11983850
Physical skill is all, you can get to be so fast that nobody can follow you, so stealthy that nobody can see you, jump so high that you can jump onto things where you're out of attack range.

>>11983850
>endurance affects how long you can stay underwater
no it doesn't.

>>11985706
Pretty sure it does. It doesn't say so in the manual though.

>>11985726
Jump all the time, that's one Oblivion hack.

>>11985775
To breath underwater, or just to level up acrobatics?

>>11985801
I think it also does endurance and athletics. I just know, jump always. Never not be jumping.

>>11985812
Yeah that's a Morrowind thing too. Many of these posts >>11985643 apply to both Morrowind and Oblivion, unsurprisingly.

>>11985824
Running and jumping pretty much makes enemy magic attacks harmless too. They all fly through the air, almost nothing is auto-targeted and the projectiles when guided are only slightly so.

It's really the best 'build' - athletics, acrobatics, endurance, you can always run away and find some super advantageous place to fight from. I always use archery because you can sneak with it and get a big bonus (I think 2x? or more?). If you have a high sneak you can get enemies to follow you, jump on top a pillar or something, then shoot them with cheapest arrows.

>>11985840
>Running and jumping pretty much makes enemy magic attacks harmless too. They all fly through the air, almost nothing is auto-targeted and the projectiles when guided are only slightly so.
One of my favorite Morrowind playstyles as well. Your "jump" becomes a "dodge" and it's easier leading all ranged attacks so they miss, though I prefer to stick with melee unless I need to get cheesy.

>>11985857
At some point most enemies die in a few hits anyway.

>>11985872
"Most" for sure, and mostly on the mainland.

It's crazy how Oblivion completely changes if you don't use restoration at all. If you want to make the game more of a RPG, give it a try and see for yourself.

I rolled an Imperial preset Knight with the Warrior birthsign, with the idea that I'll rely on loot, shops and inns for everything except major skills. Disposition maxxing with personality, fame, speechcraft, and illusion spells.

Although I may have to train security for convenience.

>>11966313 (OP)
>>11967401
The answer is that casuals ruin everything. A normal intelligent person will play the game and quickly realize that they need to increase skills to get the most use out of them. Whereas casuals will get angry that their low skill character can't immediately always use the skill to its fullest ability and demand that it be removed from future games. So in future games things become more and more dumbed down until eventually most mechanics that would make the game an rpg are removed and you are left with something that is more like an interactive movie than a game.

>>11967401
Attacking and getting blown back is the biggest reason I dropped oblivion and consider its combat to be significantly worse than morrowind. Its shocking how people enjoy getting stunlocked over a dice roll system

>>11986873
Morrowind is solved by creating a character and then monitoring the green bar. Even low IQ people can handle more complex tasks than that.

So no, playing Morrowind isn't proof of your intelligence, midwit.

>>11986924
These games were never very 'high IQ' but it's interesting how they kept streamlining them regardless.

>>11986936
It's interesting you make it about intelligence.

Do you have anything else besides video games and entertainment to test your mental faculties? A career, a hobby?

>>11987024
>It’s interesting you make it about intelligence.
it’s what the last few posts have been about

>>11987082
Because you brought it up. Why did you sage?

>>11986887
That's odd I don't remember this happening to me at all

>>11987107
I mean just look at the webm, if you attack a blocking opponent you get staggered for a sickeningly long time. Pair that with getting stunlocked while blocking and its extremely unpleasant. I remember one instance of being unable to take any action for 10+ seconds stuck getting attacked and I invested heavily in agility.

>>11987112
It's something that can happen in Morrowind as well, sometimes you get tickled to death or knocked down and slammed. It thankfully goes both ways. I suppose it's not nearly as "spammy feeling" in Morrowind.

For me, it's Morrowind

>>11987751
>level up a couple of times admiring a tavern cat
>suddenly rats have become stronger
>tombs are filled with greater bonewalkers that softlock

>>11987751
Same. Migrating >>11987605

>>11987776
>bonewalkers that softlock
Skill issue, maybe you should bring some potions next time buddy.

>>11987776
Can't you just drop all your shit and undo your curses?

>>11988703
They can spam damage your strength to 0, and you can salvage the situation with restore/fortify strength spells/potions.

I think it's an annoying oversight that I personally went and corrected with the construction set, so that they can only cast the spell once.

I've also made a mod to fix the level scaling in Morrowind. In vanilla there's skeleton archers that eventually disappear at higher levels. Good source of magical arrows, though they too can stunlock you infinitely with 100 paralyze arrows.

>>11988703
Some of the crypts you find them in will have shrines that restore attributes. My last two characters have had fun coming across enchanted items that summon undead, I just whip those out when I see the bonewalkers while keeping a distance.
If things go real shitty then I’ll drop what I need, make sure I didn’t miss anything, pick everything back up and Alsimvi/Divine intervention and get things taken care of at the temples.

>Knight with high fame: everyone flirts with them
>Thief with high infamy: everyone tells them to fuck off
I still want a quick playthrough with a mage, just need to find an interesting angle for them. Maybe a goth chick with a focus on bound armor, turn undead, and command spells.

>>11989029
make her uninterested in the restoration arts, she alchemizes her healing potions instead

>>11989042
I might do that, and go with the Battlemage. Fortify Strength potions too would help with the 30 strength. And breton mages aren't far from apprentice restoration, if I want to heal companions at some point. 5 training sessions.

>>11989029
>focus on bound armor
Scratch that, bound armor benefits from armor skills, so it would be better for warriors instead.

>>11966994
Are you retarded? Both of those make perfect sense

>if you DIDN'T softlock, you played without a guide.

>if you DID softlock, then you played with a guide.

>>11986924
Morrowind isnt high IQ, not even close, but your claim about low IQ people being able to complete a task more complex than monitoring the green bar is bullshit, because thats all you needed to do in Morrowind, and fucking mouthbreathers still keep complaining about it 23 years later!

>>11966330
>The issue is the horrendous enemy scaling.
This. The meta is to finish the game at level 2.

>>11989243
There's more mouthbreathers complaining about Oblivion's scaling and doing inefficient leveling, because they can't handle a challenging RPG, so Oblivion is definitely more high IQ than Morrowind

>>11989243
>monitor green bar in Morrowind, you win
>monitor green bar in Oblivion, you win
Same thing different platform. They both reward “patience, hardwork and planning“ and both dunk on careless character and gameplay.
>>11989269
>There's more mouthbreathers complaining about Oblivion's scaling and doing inefficient leveling
People are complaining about Oblivion in the Oblivion thread? No shit.

>>11989598
Mouthbreathers have more trouble with Oblivion than Morrowind in general, not just in Oblivion threads

>>11989852
>Mouthbreathers have more trouble with Oblivion than Morrowind in general
It’s more-or-less the same. Mismanage stamina and character build in Morrowind, combat is slowed down and complained about because of how much missing there is. Doing the same in Oblivion leads to complaints about how the damage sucks and is similarly complained about. Both have you potentially losing fights because you’re dishing out less than you’re taking.

>>11988830
>I think it's an annoying oversight that I personally went and corrected with the construction set, so that they can only cast the spell once.
Personally I just see it as an oversight with how carry weight scales. I see a more elegant solution to change the scaling from 5 x X to 4 x X + 100. You still have the same maximum but this will allow for you to have a base minimum so you won't be screwed. Still probably have to drop some shit but that's whatever.

>>11989873
>but regarding fatigue..
You're a mouthbreather

>>11989924
>worthless faggotspeak
Concession accepted.

>>11989908
>I see a more elegant solution to change the scaling from 5 x X to 4 x X + 100
>rather than editing a single spell
Okay well that is another option

>>11989929
You do you mang, I prefer to leave abilities alone.

since when is a ps360 game /vr/?

>>11990678
People born after those consoles came out are adults already unc.
It doesn't matter that gameplay hasnt changed that much since then. To most people ps360 games are very old ancient history

>>11991324
Oblivion is old enough to have an attract mode

I made a pure mage to explore options, and learned that bound weapons are underrated. No weight, costs less stamina to swing, doesn't need repair, and you don't need to raid dungeons for enchanted weapons.
Important for a character with 30 strength, agility and endurance. Don't want to swing around a heavy weapon with 150 fatigue, at least without buffs from potions or Restoration spells.

Command spells from illusion are a lot of fun.

>>11991741
I got to expert level conjuration by level 10. The bound sword is awesome, even with poor stats for combat. Having a variety of summons is fun, and not having to carry weapons and armor is nice for a change.
Alteration and Alchemy as major skills are wasted on this character. If I had to start over, I would swap them for blade and heavy armor so I wouldn't have to get training.

>>11992365
The best build is sneak, archery, short blade, and light armor, with some minor healing magic etc. You can crouch and just move through every encounter and shoot the bad guys before they even see you.

The worst thing about Oblivion is the fugly as shit non-human races (and that's saying something since the humans are already ugly as sin). The cat and lizard people in particular did not exist. Zooming in on some puma woman's fucked up face during a conversation is a special kind of horror.

>>11993517
Are you seriously hung up on the models and skins and skeletons? That's your complaint? It's a solved problem. If you can convert your models to 3DS Max file format there's a tool to import and you can make your character look like anything you want.

>>11993523
>you can make your character look like anything you want.
Did you even read my post retard? Yes, I am "hung up" on every character in the game looking sinfully disgusting.

>>11993523
>It's literally solved, bro, just remodel and rerig every character in the game. ezpz.

>>11993510
Marksman and sneak at skill level 75 were really good. Your arrows ragdoll enemies regularly, and it's possible to get multiple stealth critical hits on a target. Add in alchemy for some strategic depth, like poison of silence against spellcasters. Or get a mod to add enchanted arrows to merchants.

>Dogs won't attack you if you have a high Personality
This should have been a loading screen tip

>>11966313 (OP)
>people are mad
I dunno about people but I just don't think it's good game design. I don't get mad that there are games I don't like.

>>11993771
>don't think it's good game design
You mean the way stats increase, or level scaling?

>>11986887
>>11987107
>>11987112
Two-handed weapons seem to cause knockdown more often, so it's better to dodge or take them out ranged. Or you can stunlock them yourself. Zombies have low agility and you can easily smack them around with a warhammer.

Breton Mage reached level 22 with following stats:
Strength 30
Intelligence 100
Willpower 100
Agility 30
Speed 58
Endurance 30
Personality 80
Luck 52

Expert level in Conjuration, Destruction, and Illusion. Mysticism is almost there, but the master trainer requires the closing of oblivion gates..

I'm not sure yet if I'll do the main quest with this character, or switch to a warrior.

Hilarious how even years later these two games are still filtering retarded casuals despite being not that hard or challenging
>muh softlock!
>muh enemy level scaling!
>muh dice rolls!

Just play Skyrim if you can't handle even the slightest bit of challenge or nuance in your games.

We've reach FF8 levels of cope.
Oblivion was made for Xbox kids who don't like complex RPGs and was absolutely loved by them and game journalists at the time. The people who complained about Oblivion weren't complaining about the challenge. This is such lame shitposting, there's no discussion of the mechanics, especially the overall game design of "go anywhere, do anything" being cross purposed to RPG progression because Bethesda didn't want anyone to feel excluded from any part of the game they chose to interact with.

The fact is that Bethesda aren't good at designing game systems in general, the fundamental concept behind their games doesn't work well if you engage with games mechanically.

>>11994316
So people got dumber and a game made for dude bros became too hard for zoomers?

>>11994326
As far as I can tell, this thread is a dumbass vs. dumbass and Bethesda's continual courting of people who don't like RPGs has confused a lot of people, millenials on, that they like RPGs while, do to a lack of interest on their part, they aren't able to understand the basic systems an RPG uses.

>>11994326
>>11994326
Oblivion just filters neurotic people who need RPGs to be a predictable safe space for grinding themselves into an easy mode

>>11994446
>grinding themselves into an easy mode
Or you can just set the slider all the way to the left for both Morrowind and Oblivion, grind away while already inside of an easy mode.

>spend years studying art
>paint thousands of paintings a year
>slowly refine my painting skill
>everyone I know says I'm stupid and I'm wasting my time
>stick with it
>hit lv30 painting
>everyone I know is suddenly painting Rembrandts
>walking home one day
>homeless guy asks me to critique his masterpiece in the style of Rubens
>dude sleeps under a torn blanket in an alley
>drugged up to his eyeballs and can barely string two words together
>pass school for handicapped kids
>get hit by a wheelchair
>some stephen hawking styled kid is finishing off his Raphael inspired depiction of moses parting the red sea
>it's 30ft wide and 12ft tall
>amazing details on the waves and foam
>it would take me 10 years to do the same
>the kid is like 10 and can only move two fingers on his left hand
>mutter aloud that something doesn't seem right about all of this
>get told off for whining about the difficulty and that it's my fault for majoring in the wrong stats

>>11993526
>>11993529
Zoomer-coded posts.

>>11994446
This is what zoomers who think Oblivion is "old school" and don't like RPGs in general actually believe.

>>11994506
You joke but this literally happened because of ai...

>>11994460
I guess they want to feel they accomplished something by "working"

The hardest part of Oblivion is not having these fucking Kvatch guards die on your watch.

But anyways, again I recommend a magicless run, if someone wants to get more out of Oblivion. Every potion or scroll you find or buy can feel like a blessing, and you have to be more mindful of what's going on.

>>11994782
Not using magic sounds like the most surefire way to gimp yourself out of the funniest part for the game

>>11994961
>"magicless run"
>mentions scrolls
I think (hope) he meant just not having any spell skills.

>>11994998
Well but that sucks, magic is fun as fuck why limit it to scrolls you will get either way?

>>11994998
>I think (hope) he meant just not having any spell skills.
Yes exactly.
>>11995003
>magic is fun as fuck why limit it to scrolls you will get either way?
When magic is a limited resource in the form of potions, poisons, enchanted weapons, scrolls and staves, I had to be more clever about using what I got effectively.

Loot is way more interesting when I actually have use for the things I find.

Oblivion is a much better game without unlimited healing.

>>11995858
>Oblivion is a much better game without unlimited healing.
Magicka isn't unlimited, however.

>>11995861
>Magicka isn't unlimited, however.
Come say that after you've played without having healing constantly at your finger tips.

It's basically passive health regeneration that needs a button press.

>>11995882
>Come say that after you've played without having healing constantly at your finger tips
Okay, then you can focus on other spell schools that can help mitigate damage, like what’s in alteration or by having conjured summons soak up damage. Focusing on healing is a choice as any other.

>dude if you strip out whole mechanics it's totally a good game
>downs 50 potions
devs must love this kind of retardation

>>11979521
You forgot one
>REMOVED LEVITATION

>roleplaying in an rpg
wtf

>>11995894
>Okay, then you can focus on other spell schools that can help mitigate damage, like what’s in alteration or by having conjured summons soak up damage
Now you're getting it.

Next, imagine not being able to default to a Shield spell every time combat begins. You look into your backpack, and use a summon scroll. Now it's gone, but it's okay, you got a potion of fortify health for the next encounter.

>>11968886
Hypothetical medieval game? Sure. Morrowind? No. Skeletons and Bonelords (closest its got to zombies) take full damage from normal weaponry while also being resistant / immune to elemental magic. Ghosts are immune to normal weaponry, but that's to be expected.

>>11995990
>Now you're getting it.
You can then combine either of those schools with restoration if you so choose. It’s no more or less of a “crutch” or of an RPG, and it feels more like you’ve just never realized what the other spell schools can do. It’s always been like this: You’ve been able to shield, resist elements, and paralyze since Arena, conjuration wouldn’t happen until Morrowind.

Imperial Knight has become a vampire
Pros: they can now cast paralyze without fortifying magicka, thanks to the illusion bonus.
Hand to hand bonus
Cons: sun damage sucks

I'll roll with it now, the main quest is close to the finish line. I'll consider it some added roleplay flavor.

>>11996624
To add some gameplay commentary: it really seems like endgame enemies are meant to be dealt with enchanted weapons, which are plentiful. I'm carrying about 7 weapons and staves. Even had to use a varla stone in sancre tor.
Fists for lesser enemies.

>>11983606
Sounds like a fun game except Oblivion it's not like that, you only see wolves and rats on the wilderness

>>11994286
Imperial Knight finished the main quest at level 30 with following stats (without vampire bonuses):
Strength 100
Intelligence 40
Willpower 30
Agility 63
Speed 72
Endurance 100
Personality 79
Luck 58

Expert in Blade, Block, Blunt, Hand to Hand, Heavy Armor.

Again pretty much capped already at level 20.

100 Endurance was a mistake, since with armor and Block it makes your character almost invincible. Combat becomes very dull at that point.

I have a hunch that 30-50 Endurance would keep the gameplay more engaging.

Side note: being a vampire was actually fun for a change. Not as limiting as I previously thought. I could do a vampire playthrough.

>>11966313 (OP)
It doesn't reward, you get punished for leveling up

>>11998308
You get better stats and better loot, new enemies to encounter.

Punished.. don't be a little victim bitch.

These games are all the same. It's funny to me arguing over the finer details in all of them like they're any different. They're all the same, Fallout included

>>11998383
>all elder scrolls games are the same!
>all dragon quest games are the same!
>all pokemon games are the same!
No they're not, each entry has massive differences despite the core gameplay or engine being the same, play the fucking games

>>11998274
I went back to this character, collected the imperial dragon armor, put on Mankar's robes and went on a victory lap collecting all those heaven stone powers, punching things to death and messing with them with illusion spells. I got hand to hand to 100 for the first time ever.

I got the shield of Chorrol from the ogres. Made them fight each other. For the chieftain I used weakness to magic from a staff, paralyzed him, and finished the job with a glass war axe of shock in 10 seconds.

I still encounter creatures from 20 levels ago, so that myth is busted. So if you want to feel powerful by oneshotting wolves and imps, check out the eastern forests.

>>11998829
youre right about the elder scrolls and dragon quest games being unique. Pokemon games are all the same though.

>>11999242
>each one offers a different regions with different approaches and pokemon availability
>even remakes like frlg offer a different experience like adding abilities to Kanto and other things
>new pokemon and moves every gen
>battle frontier, contest, pokeathlon and other once in a game facility
>even modern gens adds a stupid gimmick how
Nah they are different and each gen adds something new be it types, held items, abilities, moves, special and physical split and now they evwn add stupid dumb gimmicks like megas and the stupid hat thing now, and more stupidly they remove stuff like the battle frontier and contest just to make that region unique

To the people who had trouble playing Oblivion, what kind of character did you roll?

>>12000380
Not me but my brother had trouble with Morrowind because the idiot decided to roll a khajjit monk instead of using fucking weapons and offensive magic

>I like oblivion but common thieves spawning with expensive equipment when you level up kinda breaks the immersion
>wtf are you talking about you just suck at the game
this thread

>>12000718
>only pc can get rich looting dungeons

>>12000718
Read the thread. There's people complaining about being wrecked by enemies.

>>11966363
You chose to play that way.

>>12000739
I'm sure there are retards here, it's a Bethesda thread, but the common complaint isn't that enemies are hard, but that they are HP sponges and encounters in Oblivion gates especially are very tedious at high levels.

>>12000965
>they are HP sponges and encounters in Oblivion gates especially are very tedious at high levels.
Daedra don't even scale, only xivilai, so you're just playing poorly.

God's blood, you don't know...

>>12001691
EVERYONE IS SMOKING

crack.

>>11987102
Why didn't you?

>>11976680
people that enjoy things but can't describe why are the opposite of pretentious