Thread 12093538

Anyone playing any shmup recently?
Anyone else loves these games and sucks major ass at them?

This is the thread to talk about them. I was recently playing Strikers 1945 II and I can't finish any of the first four stages without losing a life and my pride forces me to reset after a single defeat.

I just got into them. I was one bullet away from getting to the TLB in Crimzon Clover (novice) my last attempt. I'm kind of a bit nervous I'm just going to eat shit again because all my previous plays I lost my credit on stage 3.

Have YOU cleared any of the Holy Tetrad of shmups yet?

redpill me on shmups

>>12093958
Deepest and hardest single-player game genre, the good ones at least. It's fun to dodge bullets and get good enough to clear a genuinely hard challenge, it makes you feel great afterwards. Arcade run n guns like Metal Slug and Sunset Riders are the same way.

Having fun with Solar Striker.

The Parodius scoring system is insanely underrated. It's basically Yagawa scoring but you can bounce the medals with your shots and turn them into power-ups, which is often unoptimal so you sometimes have to stop shooting to be able to score. It definitely puts it above Gradius imo, which doesn't really even have a scoring system.

>>12093538 (OP)
>see retarded faggot shilling raiden 2 as best shoot em up of all time
>not how i remember it
>play raiden 2
>haven't played in decades
>still an unplayable, quarter munching pile of shit designed by people that are drooling retards
>even the hardware for the machine is a convoluted mess
embarrassing.

>>12093958
great fun, just stay away from trash such as the 194x series, raiden and rtype. they're renowned for raping players of all their coins by giving them the worst and most ineffective weapons in any shootemup.

>>12093929
not many people have without cheating or using hidden codes.

>>12093538 (OP)
You like shmups aka shooters aka STGs?

I think I'm gonna stop trying to make teams work on Batrider
idk switching characters always fucks me up
But now the question is which character do I use
>Maria is great for stages but sucks at bosses
>Shorty shreds bosses but is just kinda okay for stages
>Strawman's pretty balanced
I think it's between those three. I'd put Carpet and Miyamoto in the rotation but they add extra bosses and I'm already struggling.

>>12094314
i find it much easier to just use one character throughout the game instead of three.

>>12094353
Yeah that's what I came to understand
Now just to decide who
I think Maria might suck too much at bosses
So it's probably down to Shorty or Strawman

is the shmupg pack all i need

>>12094461
it's missing espgaluda 2 and some japanese version roms but other than that pretty much yeah, and usually roms you find online should work even if it's not the exact mame version

>>12094463
alright cool
mame is a piece of shit so i'm glad someone preconfigured everything

>>12094468
I mostly use FBNeo for arcade stuff now. Less retarded. The shmupg pack is cool though.

>>12093962
Deepest? You just move and shoot.

>>12094469
fbneo is excellent. i rarely use mame unless it's a game not supported by fbneo

>>12094463
>>12094468
here's espgaluda 2, if you need it..
https://files.catbox.moe/qyn7zv.zip

bump because sega spammer is destroying the board

Raiden is probably the best shumps ever made

>>12094314
>>12094360
I did my first 1cc of Advanced with Maria.
Save one or two bombs for bosses and it will be not that much of an issue until the final one. Make sure you have spare lives there because some overlaps can fuck you over, mostly the ones with the green lasers and whatever limits your space to avoid them.

>>12094534
and lock and chain and change formations and manage rank

>>12094461
Use the one from Leinyanfag instead. Both are missing some games though

Any gooner chads play Steam Hearts before?

Thinking of getting the [cringe]remaster on steam[/cringe] when it goes on sale.

I finally fucking did it. I 1cc'd mushi. This is my first 1cc. Holy fucking shit what a rush. I nearly failed on the final boss but the HP ticked to 0 before the bullet hit me. Fuck me, these games are awesome. I'm going to move on to maniac and also play dodonpachi in the meantime.

>>12094984
Usually better to focus on one game, especially if you are climbing up in difficulty.
But DDP is easy enough to 1-ALL so I guess it's fine.

>>12094996
I've been casually playing DDP between sessions of mushi, I really love its style and it's not as hard as daioujou which I found too difficult. I feel with mushi maniac I at least know all the spawns and just need to adjust around the new bullet patterns. Playing only one game is too much, it's more fun to me to play around with a different toy every now and then. I tried some Raizing and Psikyo games too but they weren't clicking other than maybe garegga but that game is way too punishing, I'll leave it on the shelf for when I get better at the genre.

>>12095245
Try batrider if you want something better from 8ing. And yes DOJ and SDOJ are noticeably harder than the other DP games.

>>12093538 (OP)
Same, I always die on stage 3 or earlier. Psikyo can also fuck off with their power up movement on screen after a miss, that shit always floats up to the boss's asshole you have to spend all your iframes chasing down your options across the screen.

>>12093968
This game has kickass music.

>>12094197
How can you be worse than /v/

>>12094195
Raiden is based faggot.

Also many ports exist. You don't NEED to play the arcade originals.

>>12095248
Garegga is better than Batrider but Batrider is more kino.

>>12095662
Nah Batrider is just better and kino.

>>12095663
I never liked the gameplay in Batrider as much as Garegga. I never got the whole thing about rating it higher.

>>12095672
Batrider is more like a normal shmup, you don't have to manage rank nearly as much. You can just grab powerups and blast shit. It just has that normal appeal whereas Garegga is really a unique thing.

>>12095697
Makes sense. I played the Saturn version of Garegga and just remember liking it more than Batrider on MAME. It did get really hard once you got to stage 5 I think? Arcade Batrider seemed surprisingly manageable but not easy by any means. I never beat Garegga.

>>12095883
Saturn Garegga is for sure the best version other than the PS4 M2 port. The arcade version had noticeable input lag for some reason; the Saturn version fixes that. Also on the Saturn version you can change the realistic bullets to red balls for slightly better visibility.
Advance Course on Batrider is pretty hard, almost as hard as Garegga, just in different ways. It won't fucking destroy you if you decide to pick up too many power-ups or put the autofire rate too high. You can play very fast and loose compared to Garegga where everything has a consequence.

Bought this among other Psikyo games and while I have fun, I've just come to terms with the fact I'll never ever 1cc any of these games and might as well just swallow my pride and turn Free Play on.

Still, Gunbird is amazing fun.

Shit I always assumed Touhou got the whole "name of the music in the corner" thing from Batrider... but then I realized Batrider came out a whole year after Touhou 2. So where the fuck did it come from?

I'm playing Zanac Neo

What are the best Taito games?

>>12095949
Based. Is this game any good though? It's Compile's last game and the only follow up to their first shmup, Zanac.

here is a freebie from 2009 https://tatsuya-koyama.com/works/games/genetos/
just look for Download

Is there a trick to getting newer cave games to work on fbneo? When I play futari in xenia it runs perfectly but has a bit of input lag but with fbneo it's constantly stuttering so it's not my hardware but perhaps the emulation. I noticed this with some others like pinksweets

These games make me worry for my mental capacity. The moment enemy ships start shooting a second color bullet I can't keep track of anything on screen.

>>12095660
>Raiden is based faggot.
never happened
>Also many ports exist
play inferior versions of a game that's already unplayable on arcade hardware? wow! no thanks.

>>12095631
>be me
>go to youtube videos to watch playthroughs of various cave games with people getting massive high scores
>1-ALL COMPLETE! WR! etc.
>nice
>bullets cruise through the player hitbox like it never existed
>realize 10 mins in that they've disabled sprite collision on the player object
lmao

>>12094197
>not many people have without cheating or using hidden codes.
factual.

I want to 1cc Ketsui and Battle Garegga
But I'm still a shitter scrub so they will probably take me like a year each

>>12093929
The common thread: all composed by Manabu Namiki

>>12096125
Nothing wrong with that if you have fun doing it. Some people have played these on-and-off over several years before committing to buckling down and clearing them so you wouldn't be the first.

>>12096106
Gay retard. Raiden is based
>OMG why is difficult shmup difficult

???? You can play Super Raiden on PCE CD which is way easier and toned down for console plus CD quality soundtrack. Or you can play the much harder but still top tier HuCard version that's slightly faster paced. Both play great, ports aren't by default inferior versions. You're gay and retarded.

>>12096281
if i wanted to play with AIDS i would go and take up a heroin addiction and share dirty needles. raiden is just that bad.

>>12095964
It's fun, but pretty easy

>>12095952
RayForce, RayStorm and RayCrisis

>>12096369
>no extends
>bullshit rank

what the fuck is this satanic-ass shit doing in my namco baby game

>>12095920
The problem sounds like you trying to 1cc before doing some kind of practice. So yes, you can turn free play on, play the game multiple times to learn the stages, and only then attempt 1cc when you know what to do in every section.

>>12096646
This looks like some kind of Tomino shit. Well it would if the person in the middle was a robot

>>12096646
Very Gnostic and satanic

>>12096118
You're what happens when you don't gatekeep. There can never be real shmup discussion again here

Do any of you just say "fuck it" and lower the difficulty or turn Free Play on?

These games are humbling me hard.

>>12098157
>and lower the difficulty
No
>turn Free Play on
It makes no difference at all on an emulator lol
That said, you are not supposed to go for 1cc without any practice first, so you can do some feeding first or save states.

>>12093929
Yes, both DOJ and Ketsui with at least a 1-all and a decent second loop run

Which of the 19XX games is considered the best and worth investing time into?

I'm looking for a relatively easy shmup to get good at and I'm eyeing one of the 19XX games or maybe Sonic Wings 2 (I think the SW series in general is condered kinda easy)

>>12094929
which ones?

>>12098551
19XX is the "best", but they're all garbage Capcomshit

>>12098551
considered*

>>12098157
I never felt like the difficulty was fair. Like Ketsui is a hard game and it doesn't feel like bullshit. All these strikers reskins are just obnoxious in their design.

>>12098551
19XX is pretty good and also has a nice soundtrack to go with it. final stage and boss is hard as shit

>>12098568
https://archive.org/details/mature-dot-dodging-games-gaiden-v-1.0.7z

>>12093962
nigga they are just restart and practice 1000000 times over and just a fancy memorization test

>>12099783
I feel this is a misguided view coming from a type of person without much experience in the genre. It only takes maybe a few dozen hours at most to fully memorize everything that can happen at every second in the game. The remaining several thousand hours is spent purely improving your execution and consistency. If you think improving execution and consistency (the basis of every single competitive real-time game ever) is just a "fancy memorization test", then I'm not sure what to tell you.

>>12099859
I said it's both lil bro

parodius medaling > twinbee medaling > yagawa medaling

I finally cleared my first shmup (1CC on 怒首領蜂大往生). It took me several weeks of practice. I said I would post a video of it in here when I did it, so here it is. It also happens to be a pretty good safe route for 1CC clearing with B-EX, which isn't something I was able to find online, even though I think that the ship is clearly superior to Type A for a safe clear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EZDG4ID42Y&t=3486s

>>12100032
DDP DOJ WL as a first clear is pretty intense, good job. You're pretty much ready for anything now. Try Ketsui, which is basically its sister game.

>>12100032
Which input device are you using? The ship moves in a very strange jerky way.

>>12100048
I'm planning on trying to learn how to do some scoring strategies in the first loop and then attempt to clear the second loop before trying out other games. Not sure how insane that will be, but the second loop as well as the strictness of the combo system feels like it's the true reason the game is considered to be so challenging.

>>12100065
I'm using a keyboard. I primarily move the ship by tapping the keyboard very lightly for small-distance movements. Not sure if that's optimal; just what I've wound up doing.

>>12100076
It's a good strat sure, but even for kb standards the constant jerky movements look odd.

>>12100070
The second loop is a lot harder in WL, scoring or not. Also you start with no extends so you can very likely get killed by the first boss and that's it.

>>12100089
Do you think it will have negative consequences, and if so, what would they be? Since so many enemies shoot directly at you in the game, it just seemed to me like a good way to properly misdirect the bullets slightly, so your ship can always be just slightly ahead of the enemy bullets.

>>12100107
Works for danmaku-style games with small hitboxes, probably not as well for classic ones

>>12099625
Ok, but which games are missing on that rom pack?

for me it's raiden, gradius and r-type all the way down... *sips* yep ...

>>12100162
Ok but have you 1cc'd the Raiden games

>>12100164
1cc'd raiden trad on me genny :)

>>12100117
Are you really telling a beginner not to tap dodge, is that how shit and useless these threads have gotten

since those fags are delisting psikyo shmups, what are the chances of them working on new ports instead?

>>12100758
Unlikely, but a man can dream

>>12100758
>Doing this after the Steam Sale
very scummy
well, I won't buy these shitass input lag-ridden MAME roms for $10. I might have for $3. Their loss.

>>12094952
I only played the PC-98 version, which I believe is the original.
That version is pretty bad, the game has an abysmal frame rate by nature, and after you finish a level, there's an endless lesbian sex scene where you can't speed up the dialogue and you spend several minutes watching the same images.
The Saturn version should be better for gameplay, but the guys removed the explicit lesbianism, as far as I know.

if you guys struggle with 1cc just look up walkthroughs on youtube, steal their strats and then practice the run ending parts until you do them confidenly, should be doable for everyone

>>12095938
OutRun

>>12095938
Fantasy Zone and OutRun

>>12096808
>This looks like some kind of Tomino shit
Yes
>Well it would if the person in the middle was a robot
What? It's Tomino shit specifically because it's a woman and not a robot.

>>12100758
According to the message on Steam, there are no plans. They wrote that they will provide consumers with updates IF there is any news, meaning they don't even know if there will be anything to say in the future.

>>12101590
thx

is this game as cool as my 5 year old ass thought it was when I played through the demo for the 500th time?

>>12093538 (OP)
>tfw no Gradius VI
I'm so fucking tired of seeing bullet hells. I AM OLD DAMMIT.

>>12101854
There are more than six games in the series and the latest came out this year.

>>12100883
Well damn, that’s disappointing to hear because from what I understand Saturn had some scenes cut vs PC98

>>12101842
I always find this game boring and too damn slow.
Most of its gameplay consist of waiting time until next basic barebones wave of enemies.
Never understood the praise.

>>12102756
Yeah but a new mainline Gradius?

What are some easy games to try to get good at and 1cc?

sheeeeit was thinking about getting a 4k oled monitor and it's so close to the old candy cab size but not quite. oh well a 10% reduction isn't that big of a deal

>>12093929
Holy tetrad according to who? This is the normie that one month ago only knew Ikaruga and now takes systems11's list as gospel. Honestly surprised that Raizing isn't represented by just Garegga

>>12104094
I love that feel when you get misidentified as some other anon
They will never find me

>>12093962
As someone who likes shmups, I don’t entirely agree.

They’re not easy, but the difficulty is front loaded. Reaching basic competence mostly comes down to time spent. After that, you’re either optimizing the same handful of patterns or realizing there’s not much left to interpret. Most of these games are contrived; they want you to solve a puzzle that never changes once you’ve seen it.

That’s why shmup players gravitate toward scoring. It’s the last clean feedback loop left. The game says yes, you’re improving or no, you’re not. But once you see how narrow that loop is, it’s hard to stay invested. Without enough meaningful variability to explore (without tanking your score), the whole thing starts to feel sterile. Maybe that’s why most people stop before they reach true optimization.

>>12104137
>>That’s why shmup players gravitate toward scoring
No, the fact that the games are built around scoring is the reason.

>>12104329
Sure, but that’s kind of the problem. When the only meaningful way to engage with the game is through its scoring system, you stop playing the game and start playing the designer’s script.

Scoring should reward expression, not obedience. When it locks you into a single optimal route, you might as well be speedrunning a spreadsheet.

>>12104919
>you stop playing the game and start playing the designer’s script.
Not really. Many times optimal scoring strategies include things that were very obviously not intended, such as glitches.
>Scoring should reward expression, not obedience. When it locks you into a single optimal route, you might as well be speedrunning a spreadsheet.
According to who? Also that's an obvious consequence of playing a game without too much randomness, it doesn't have much to do with a specific genre or gameplay style, but rather a much more fundamental design philosophy.

>>12104025
novice modes of crimzon clover, mushihimesama, or dodonpachi resurrection (1.5 strong style). as well as Deathsmiles on rank 1 stage difficulty. Batsugun as well. these are the games I'm starting with.
I'm also interested in akai katana and gunvein but figured i should clear my plate first.
It's October and you're on 4chan just get Deathsmiles.

>>12097240
anon was right. seek help.

>>12098157
>Do any of you just say "fuck it" and lower the difficulty or turn Free Play on?
nah. most i will do is save the state on the player select screen and keep reloading/playing until i get good and then save the state when i get on the highscore table so i can keep track of my scores/progress

>>12105126
In mame there's a plugin to save high scores permanently

>>12105128
i've been using fbneo for all the shooter stuff. downside with using states is when emulator gets updated, old states aren't supported.

>>12105131
Stuff like that is why I prefer MAME. Much more customizable and it's likely you will find a plugin for what you need even if you don't know how to make them yourself.

>>12104107
I'm not talking about you. I mean this "list" is clearly made by someone who just glazes Cave and Raizing and doesn't know the other 80% of the genre such as Taito, Konami, Irem, Takumi, Touhou, etc.

>>12104919
>When the only meaningful way to engage with the game is through its scoring system, you stop playing the game and start playing the designer’s script
Good thing it's not. Scoring being the core of shmups' design doesn't mean that it's the only way to interact with them.

>>12105889
The list is labelled as Cave and Raizing, why would it have Irem games?

>>12105029
Already have it on Steam, seems good enough. Even every level at their lowest difficulty is still a worthy 1cc, I'll take it.

>>12104943
If the only way a system feels alive is when players find ways to break it, that kind of proves my point. Accidental expressiveness isn’t the same as designed flexibility.

And yeah, deterministic systems will always trend toward optimization, that’s fine. The problem is when a game’s entire structure pushes you toward a single line of play instead of letting the scoring or rank system breathe. There’s a big difference between “low randomness” and “no elasticity.”

When you look at something like Batrider or Garegga, the scoring and rank mechanics respond to how you play. You can improvise routes, manipulate risk, and still score high. In contrast, most later shmups make the scoring route a foregone conclusion. That’s what I mean by playing the designer’s script.

>>12106241
Sorry, but I’ve been around shmup players too long to take that in good faith. These are the same people who complain that other genres don’t have rigid scoring systems, then turn around and act like self-imposed challenges are meaningless because they aren’t developer-sanctioned.

It’s funny, because those same “inferior” approaches often lead to far more interesting ways to play: ones that actually explore the system instead of tracing over it. But since the score counter doesn’t validate it, it somehow doesn’t count.

>>12106414
>I’ve been around shmup players too long
Clearly not since you don't realize how popular playing for clears or casually is among all kinds of players, there has never been a time where 1alls haven't been appreciated and celebrated.
I think you just got stuck in a bubble and mistook it for the whole world.

>>12106409
You can score high in many shmups even without playing fully optimal, probably not going to get a WR much like you wouldn't in Garegga. And Raizing did not invent difficulty rank systems that the player can manipulate, best you can do is credit them for making it central to the experience in one game and it's still hardly an accomplishment.

>>12106479
I don’t play for score and never have. Most of the community doesn’t either; that's my point. The problem is that these games are still judged almost entirely by their scoring systems, even when those systems amount to playing Simon Says inside the head of a middle-aged Japanese man from 25 years ago.

It always circles back to score, which is exactly why games like Dangun Feveron get unfairly written off. If a game doesn’t worship the same scoring orthodoxy, it’s treated like it has nothing to say, even when it’s more honest about what makes the genre fun in the first place.

>>12106493
I’d agree it’s hardly an accomplishment if the genre had actually built on it. But it didn’t. Most Cave games revolve around some form of link chaining which is contrived by design. You’re restricted to killing specific enemies at specific times, not bombing, not dying, etc. before you've even played the game.

That works if you’re catering to a small, dedicated audience, but even then it has a shelf life. Ironically, it’s the high-level players who burn out first, because they’re the ones who see how little real expression the system leaves once you’ve solved it.

>>12106543
If I had a penny for every time I got a "but le cave" deflection whenever Raizing is criticized I'd be a using it to fund the company for the next 20 years as long they stick to making arcade shmups.

>>12106550
I actually like Cave. I just think the genre stopped evolving when people decided “Cave-like” was the endpoint. You can only copy the same risk-reward scaffolding so many times before it turns into ritual instead of design.

You wanna know something funny? I used to frequent Hey and spent a lot of time on the shmup floor. The second and third most popular games were Mushi and Futari. But I'm willing to bet you couldn't guess within ten tries which game was the most popular by far.

>>12101051
Based, for me it's FAKE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkR3d8Cinlo

How do I consistently do the counter laser in G-Darius and Dariusburst? I can never seem to get the timing right

I finally cleared progear the other day and am looking for a new shmup to try but haven't picked one yet. I wanted to play gun frontier but I need to setup mame in my PC again because RA only allows one turbo button. Also thinking maybe rayforce or guwange.
>>12106587
For Gdarius there's not really much timing at all iirc, you just laser them back. I would try to have my laser out before theirs comes out that's really the only timing involved im pretty sure. Maybe you aren't mashing? It's a super based game tho I'm thinking of trying to learn ver 2.0 since I cleared all the routes of ver 1 a while ago
burst you want to press the button right when those red circles converge in the start up. At least if using legend ship. It's easier to cut in to the laser but I don't really have a tip for that you just gotta get a feel for the timing, basically you press laser like the second you're about to get hit as you cut in.

>>12106587
>>12106707
Also an easier ship to counter burst with is the gaiden where it works just like gdarius, no timing involved just cut in with laser or have a laser firing in advance and sit there.

>>12106712
>Gaiden
I meant genesis ship I'm retarded

I'm still waiting for Cave to re-release this on PC or Switch, preferably on Switch to play on bed.

IDK what's taking them so long, I don't think they have forgotten they made this game.

>>12106880
>I'm still waiting for Cave to re-release
I feel like I've said the exact same thing like 10+ years ago. If you really want to play their games, just get an Xbox 360 now that it can be soft modded as of this year.

>>12106248
Because it's extremely naive and narrow to represent this genre with just Cave and Raizing. It's no different from the normies that only know Ikaruga.

>>12106707
Gun Frontier is a great game conceptually, but execution wise it really jumps the shark on the final stage. Rayforce though is immaculate. Incredibly beautiful and deep, manages to be hard as hell but also fair.

>>12106536
>what makes the genre fun in the first place

care to elaborate?
what makes these games fun?

>>12107498
nta but simply the part where you shoot at things and avoid other things.

Finally got my first 1CC in a shmup :D
It was novice crimzon clover tho...
Time to train on arcade mode.

>>12108453
Excellent
Metal Slug 1 was my first

>>12108453
1ccing novice modes feels like a complete waste of time to be fair. Well, all 20 minutes of it.

>>12108492
There are plenty of very well designed novice modes.

>>12094952
I don't understand why would you play an incredibly garbage shooter with mediocre porn in it when you could play something actually good like V-V and jack off to quality hentai between the stages

>>12108473
Thats a run n gun which is different but still cool game congrats

>>12093538 (OP)
>Anyone else loves these games and sucks major ass at them?
Yes and Yes. Right now I'm having more success with 16bit shmups on the TGFX16 and Genesis (though Wings of Wor is kicking my ass) than Saturn shmups. A lot of those can be pretty fucking rough.

I've been playing Giga Wang
Still pretty early on routing but this game is cool as fuck
>>12093929
Of these only ket so far

Battle Garegga is so awesome

>>12100758
I'm picking up Zero Gunner 2 because it has actual widescreen. Do any of these others have unique features worth buying them for?

What shoot 'em ups does no one ever talk about that you guys like?
I started playing:
"The Game Paradise Cruis'n Mix Special"
And I'm finding it fun as fuck. However, I'm totally drunk, so maybe the fun I'm having is related to the alcohol in my blood.

>>12111159
Sonic Wings series.
The games are generally simple and straightforward but they feature the same type of challenge as their Psikyo successors; very fast and intense bullet burts with a focus on multi-phase boss battles. I like games that are quick and easy to understand but difficult to overcome.
I also really like the games' visual themes and aesthetics, like the accurate looking real war vehicles with outlandish powers, the huge variety of characters and the reoccurring motiffs that connect them to all the other Video System games, like Rabio Lepus and Inufuku. I wish Psikyo games continued that tradition.
So far I only 1cc'd the first one, but I intend to finsh the series and eventually get a 2all.

>>12099783
>nigga they are just restart and practice 1000000 times over
That's how you get better at literally anything in life. Not that you'd know, clearly.

>>12111159
>>12111252
Sonic Wings is great. It's one I return to frequently.
I'm currently really into Giga Wing after years of never really seeing anything special in it. The whole "shield yourself and smash into enemies" thing is pretty satisfying.

>>12096346
Interesting, because the original is so damn difficult. I just wish this game came out not in 2001 and was released in the US so it was more widespread. IDK why Compile released this game on the PS1 when the PS2 was already out. DVD's cost too much? Japs hold on to old console for much longer so just release it on PS1? That can't be it.

>>12111159
For some reason Air Gallet just really clicked with me, even though it's pretty generic

>>12112065
did it blow your socks off?

>>12112078
It did
Although it had a 2 second cutscene at the start so it's a shitty moviegame with no gameplay

What do you do you when you need a break from a game? I'm feeling stuck, should I try something else and come back or just grind it out?

>>12112428
go for a long walk in the rain and reflect on your life choices that led to you playing these shitty games.

>>12112460
do u think jacking off will help? I'm going to do it anyways

>>12112428
>What do you do you when you need a break from a game?
I take it, what sort of retarded question is this?

>>12111029
yeah, shame about the stolen music tho

>>12112565
Why? It sounds great.

>>12112065
I like that the game uses real pixel art instead of pre-rendered garbage. That's already a huge plus. I hate how pre-rendered games have totally taken over arcades back then.

>>12112065
>generic
really understating it there. it's a clone of raiden so it also has absurd difficulty and absolute cancerous weapon power up mechanics. like raiden, designed to milk coins out of pockets and nothing more.

>>12112567
sounds great cuz is stolen!

>>12113206
So this random game was designed to milk coins, but Garegga, whose designer is literally on record saying that's what they were doing, and has shit like rank not resetting on a new coin, is actually epic kino open world shmup and it's well designed
Lmao

>>12113210
>So this random game was designed to milk coins,
all arcade machines are designed to do this. some do it more gracefully than others or at least attempt to give you something for your money
>garegga is mentioned for no apparent reason
game is well designed, great graphics, awesome sound, great game mechanics but plagued with bugs and woeful graphics design choices for bullets that were only fixed when it was re-released on consoles. it gets a pass. it makes air gallet and raiden 1/2 look like space invaders.

>>12113210
Don't forget Batrider requiring you to start the machine with the test mode dip enabled if you don't want additional rank out of nowhere, or adding more difficulty simply by having more credits in. Today we get to laugh at that shit because we can read wikis, but back then it would feel like an absolute scam with the game being inconsistent as hell.

>>12113673
>but back then it would feel like an absolute scam
it was legalized robbery. there were no proper standards or rules anybody had to follow when it came to developing the software. as long as software's content passed classification boards of whatever country then everyone was happy. the hardware side has a plethora of rules it needs to comply with but not the software. i know there's a story online somewhere of one of the CAVE software developers saying how he's never 1cc'd any of his own games, which really should speak volumes as to how painful it must of been to bug test for their own expert testers. mistakes happen. and when they did happen you might never get an update rom set, disc, whatever.

>>12113701
For CAVE in specific I heard the opposite, in the sense that they tested individual sections under the criteria of "is it possible to 1cc?", although not "is it possible to really avoid everything?", they are including extra lives and bomb spam for the second loop especially.

>>12113707
>, in the sense that they tested individual sections under the criteria of "is it possible to 1cc?"
yes. but the programmers weren't sitting there 1cc'ing the game from start to end. even with those maniac or whatever modes, they calculated -if- a player could make it. their calculations said yep. no problem. i'm sure one of their beta testers completed it just to prove it could be done. so... yeah, mistakes happen. and you end up with broken ranking systems as seen in other games or other odd behaviour not even noticed by the testers or programmers.

>>12113673
>adding more difficulty simply by having more credits in
That's perfectly fair. Adding more credits is meant to be a way to practice the game, not to bypass it.

>>12114185
Would be fair if it told you about that.

>>12114190
Figuring out the rank system is integral part of the game. If you use continues you already have an unfair advantage over other players, you don't need the game to reveal part of its puzzle to you.

>>12114197
>If you use continues you already have an unfair advantage over other players
Not really, everyone can use continues, and the issue isn't using continues either since you can bypass it entirely by putting one more coin during the countdown.

>>12114203
Not everyone can use continues, there are players who can afford a game or two and players who can hog the machine all day, which was very bad etiquette back when there were people waiting in line to play new arcade games. Rank systems serve the double purpose of equalizing casual players and giving hardcore ones good value for their money.

Anti-spammer bump

>>12093958
they're fun, some more than others

>>12093958
The REALLY good ones are really good. These are games you can seriously sink 50+ hours into before 1ccing, so I recommend you do your research and pick one that actually has a decent amount of depth. Almost anything from CAVE or Raizing is a safe bet.

>>12093538 (OP)
Really enjoying R-Type Final on the PS2 rn

>>12116654
Good game. Have you played the rest of the series?

Does anyone know what the revisional differences are between Omega Fighter and Omega Fighter Special? I tried searching system11 and a bunch of old forums and can't find shit.

today I got to stage 5 boss in Ketsui for the first time, hoping for a 1-ALL in the next couple of weeks

>>12111159
crisis force. holy fuck it's so beautiful. easy i guess because it's about to be my first cc. but it's good

>>12116976
that hard.

What do you think it is

>>12118579
DALE!

>>12118579
Certainly not Batrider

>>12106565
>But I'm willing to bet you couldn't guess within ten tries which game was the most popular by far.
was it deathsmiles?

>>12113673
Have been playing this recently. It really depends. I've had super good runs after bad runs, stage 5 is where it gets a bit too mad on Normal Course though, I usually let myself die somewhere in Sky High if it's not after Sewage System or Zenovia Airport, and get the extend. Point blank bombing is too useful if you're Maria/Strawman, and Sky High's boss can be a dick. I have done it bombless though. Given atm i'm fighting for my life while Chasing Gang, Need Speed I've not got the secret extend down, I can never find 3 whole bomb icons to do the other one. Given the Europe version gives you extend on score i'm unsure if they exist, but i'm determined to clear at least Normal Course.

>>12118837
Never tried Normal course, but it sounds easy enough to enter it at full extends/bombs and take down every remotely difficult section bosses included

>>12118818
Nope. It was a Cave game but it was a vertical one.

>>12118985
Either DOJ or SDOJ

>>12116759
Yes been a fan of R-Type since the arcade cab. Try the spectrum port it's a bitch but great. I only got around to playing final recently though as I am working though a PS2 shelf right now

>>12119006
>>12116759
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRz4sMmzcAY

>>12118989
Nope and nope. That's three tries.

>>12107498
Other guy got the high level answer right, but basically, the appeal of shmups initially was that they were games you could play through and organically improve at. You could start at moving and shooting and work your way up towards mastery of the game. We're talking early days here, before bullet hell was even a thing.

The problem with modern style shmups is that they did away with this. The games became homework assignments that you had to study before you could play. Gone were the days too of being able to look at the scores on the cabinet and deduce that those people were probably the best players: now that scoring became a highly contrived affair, you could 1cc these games and still end up with a lower score than someone who can't get past stage 4.

It's funny too because this is exactly what's happened to fighting games over the past decade, only at least shmups tried to make certain aspects of the games harder. But ultimately they're doing the same thing: punishing fundamental skill and instead rewarding rote memorization. Not for the benefit of noobs or experts, but to keep mid level players on the hamster wheel for as long as possible. You'd think fighting game devs would look to the failed experiment of shmups doing this and decide against it, but I guess this is what happens when the people making arcade games run out of ideas.

>>12119020
Dangun Feveron?

>>12119031
they haven't ran out of ideas, problem is executing them in new original ways to attract players.

>>12119035
Keep going.

>>12119038
When was the last real breakthrough in shmup design? Something that came along and was so essential to the future of the genre that everyone else had no choice but to implement?

>>12119058
DonPachi?

>>12119059
Nope. I'm just gonna tell you if you don't get it on the next one.

>>12119079
...Muchi Muchi Pork?

>>12119058
> Something that came along and was so essential to the future of the genre that everyone else had no choice but to implement?
build it and they will come. i think shoot em up genre is just too niche of a market these days is worth investing in for some developers, but that doesn't mean the genre or its developers have ran out of ideas.

>>12119083
sorry. fucked up: +is not worth investing in.

>>12118579
Well?

>>12119082
Espgaluda. As in, the first one. I didn't know what to make of this for some time, but I think I've figured it out. It strikes just the right balance of being complex but not contrived. You can use kakusei more or less as you please and the game isn't whispering in your ear that you're not really playing the game for doing it. I think this speaks to the old school shmup mentality more than most if not any other Cave game, and was probably the last time that demographic felt catered to by them.

It goes to show that there's a real disconnect between stated and revealed preferences with this genre. Cave gets mad that their ports don't sell, but then you look at the games that they choose to port and they're mostly the ones their extremely online fans say are the greatest shit since sliced bread but don't actually play. For instance, in five years of living in Japan, I saw ONE GUY play Ketsui. And he wasn't even good at the game. The shit people tell themselves about this genre just does not align with the culture that made these games what they are.

>>12119096
10 more minutes

>>12119083
I think it absolutely does mean they've ran out of ideas. Think of who their target audience is. The type of people who've been playing these games since the beginning of time. They've seen it all at this point. Not just shmups, but arcade games generally get judged pretty harshly upon release. They either manage to convince people that there's reasons to keep playing or they don't. Most shmups have failed this test now for fifteen+ years, and that includes SDOJ. It's not that people want to shit on these games, it's that they want something that hasn't been done before. Something that might make them feel the way they did when they first started playing.

It's not wrong to say that shmups are a niche genre, but this type of reasoning too conveniently ignores why this is. And I'm focusing on Japan in this discussion because most of the talking points regarding the genre's decline in popularity don't really apply to over there. They played 2D, arcade, etc. games well into and past the 90s. But even so, shmups managed to lose favor with the people who understood and appreciated them the most. It's not for no reason, either.

>>12119098
Well damn I would have never guessed it alright.
Even if I somehow remembered about Espgaluda eventually, I would have named the second game since the first didn't even get a modern port.

Aaaaand it's nothing

>>12119146
But I want to try it anon

>>12119098
The most accessible and commonly recommended as "my first Cave CC" is the most popular at arcades? Who would have thought!

>>12119176
It's also wrong if you ask me, Espgaluda is not terribly difficult but it's aimed at people who are already used to shmups enough to be able to focus both on the shooting and dodging plus its own gimmicks.
Mushi original is probably what really deserves the moniker.

http://stg.liarsoft.org/
Do shmups have a western equivalent of this for news? I think Elixir's twitter used to be the go-to, but he's done with shmups afk.

>>12119184
Mushi original is not very bullet hell, or even Cave.

I think the danmaku-ness is part of the allure of Espgaluda in this case.

>>12119202
It is a CAVE game and from what I have seen mentioned often whenever people talk about what they 1cc'd first(only including CAVE games) or want to.
I can agree that Espgaluda is closer to what people usually praise CAVE for though, including the part where you can play around wiht kakusei both for survival and scoring.

>>12119176
Literally who says this lmao. You almost never hear anyone mention Espgaluda in any context other than "that game before Espgaluda 2". If there's a game that's most recommended for a first Cave clear, it's Deathsmiles.

>>12119210
Definitely seen some people recommend Espgaluda for a first 1cc but not as often as yeah either DS or Mushi. And in terms of actually doing it, I never heard anyone say it was literally the first CAVE game they 1cc'd.

>>12119210
How will playing a horizontal shmup you can 1cc in 2 hours help you play other Cave shmups

>>12118951
Did do the proper rank reset thing now I've figured out how to do it on Plebtroarch. I can practically always get to Highway now, so I can deconstruct it for tackling. Saving bombs in stage 1 helps if stage 2 is Skyhigh. I usually just unload on window smashy bit but you're only gaining one medal rank, same with the trains right at the start. Usually more useful at the Airport where you're smashing planes full of 7000-max medals at that point and you have throwaway bombs.

>>12120007
Oh lol you were playing with increased rank.
Well, that's how advanced course will play out either way.

>>12119146
Game is amazing at least

>>12120371
Eh might give it a try. Maybe I just thought it was a nothing release because I was expecting a Cave port or something, it sucks to see MushihimeSama delisted and I didn't buy it on time on Switch (tho I own it on Steam, at my day and age I feel more inclined to play shit on Switch instead of PC)

>>12119210
>>12119216
like 10 years ago when I was getting into shmups it was my first pick so people must have thrown it around as a first game at least back then. managed to 2 or 3 cc it and then quit, just coming back to shmups again now and I'll probably finish what I started.
if I'm remembering right I was making it to the last boss on one credit and then everything fell apart. fuck this pattern especially.

>>12119216
>I never heard anyone say it was literally the first CAVE game they 1cc'd
NTA Espgaluda II Omake mode as my first 1cc, I still have my recording and I still don't know if I did anything wrong because there's no way I could ever 1cc a shmup

>>12119146
>it's nothing
Nah fuck off mate, M2's original games are great. It's not /vr/ content though.

>love vertical shmups
>can't get into horizontal shmups

what the hell is my problem?

>>12119146
It's great actually. I thought it was supposed to come out in december

>>12120587
You just need to find the right one

are shmups more fun on easy modes?

>>12121196
Not really

what's the general consensus on leverless for shmups? convenient or too tryhard?

>>12121659
just use a keyboard
most hitboxes have the up button on the bottom which is stupid for anything non-fighting

Can anyone here help me understand just what the hell is the full narration of the opening for R-Types on PS1??

You completely can't understand the narrator anymore after the alerts go off and I can't find the script of everything he's saying, ANYWHERE online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm7Xcnpvlgw&t=27s

>>12121196
Bru you are killing the rank

>>12120587
They are just too different, horis are about stage gimmicks and walls while verts are pure aimed bullet pattern interplay, I also find verts more fun to play as they feel more interactive.
For horis with vert design try Sengoku Blade, the Cave ones and P-47 aces.

>>12122582
I can understand most of it, and I usually have trouble understanding the lyrics in songs.

From when the alerts start:
“Mankind decided to strike back, using the just completed, (multi-dimensional?), next generation, fighter called the R-9. However, not one ship ever returned from battle. (The following sentence is really tricky, but it sounds like the guy is listing off the R-9’s arsenal). All mankind can do is launch this ship and pray.”

Best way to record bullet hell losslessly for youtube?

>>12122668
OBS

Alright, I patched garegga with the QoL mod, correctly I think, and now it will not open. I'm using FBNeo in retroarch. What am I doing wrong, other than using retroarch

>>12122582
Incredible 90s kino

>>12122853
FBNeo has Zakk's patch in its romset already
bgareggaz.zip

>>12122601
>horis are about stage gimmicks and walls while verts are pure aimed bullet pattern interplay
Not really true, but the popular ones from each category happen to play like that.
That said, I wish walls and other kind of obstacles were more of a thing. Only bullets(often all using the same sprite and color) and enemies aren't particularly aesthetically pleasing.

>>12122805
nice socks

Are there any other shmups that have a high degree of player choice like Garegga and to a lesser extent the other Yagawa games? I know "memoslop" is a meme but I really like how Yagawa games force you to kinda stay on your toes and react to unforeseen situations.

>>12123549
Or I guess the other way to ask this is, are there any other shmups where your choices have consequences that reverberate past the basic "I have one more/less life/bomb for this or that section"

>>12123549
Like selectable characters? Batrider obviously

Rank system? Zanac for the NES.

First good fixed shmup is Galaga (1981) first good horizontal shmup is Gradius (1985) first good vertical shmup is Zanac (1986)

>>12123797
I think Defender (1981) deservers some credit for introducing the bomb system, eventually became a mainstay feature in the entire genre. Also it's horizonal

>>12123805
It's horizontal but it's not autoscrolling so it's kinda a different thing
Love me Williams though

>>12123797
MSX Zanac is 1986, NES version is 1987. NES version is the best one, it plays incredibly and shouldn't be possible on the NES. That being said the game's rank system is obnoxious, the game is super unbalanced and all around extremely difficult. Common situation:
>Die
>Lose power up weapon and have basically useless default secondary
>Have to dodge 3 billion things including 1 billion missiles and 1 billion random alien things flying in erratic spiraling circles very fast and coming from the front and sides while shit fires at you from behind
>Chain die
>Game over

Still amazing for the NES and pretty decent overall, it was probably really nice back in it's day because you would be playing it forever. Gradius is the better game and the NES version is actually incredibly good and very underrated and actually much better balanced.

>>12123206
>I wish walls and other kind of obstacles were more of a thing
Try the Aleste series and Sorcer Striker

Someone beat my high score in Time Pilot so I can have a reason to keep playing.

>>12123797
Scramble/Super Cobra are fun, not as good as Gradius but give you a sense of what's to come. Kinda same thing with Galaxian.
Zanac is really good for such an old nes title, although I fun verts without obtuse Xevious mechanics were already a thing then, Gun.Smoke, Slap Fight, 1942. If we have to pick a defining game the answer is obviously Flying Shark.
>>12124025
2 options is a bit too lame for Gradius but it's a nice easier port.

>>12107030
>can be soft modded as of this year
are you talking about the bad update hypervisor exploit thats used on a certain dash version?

or is there a new way i havent heard of?

im using the badupdate exploit and when it works it fucking awesome, sometimes the hack takes within minutes, one day i was at it for 4 hours before the hack took.

anyway ive pretty much just been using it to load every shmup from a usb stick along with mame/final burn, werks gud!

>>12124473
You all took too long so now my score is literally unbeatable.

>>12120015
Got the clear with Maria, even though I've been having better Strawman runs. Somehow I did not miss a damn medal and got the second score extend right before Envy came to eat it up in exchange for an easy bomb spam kill. I did a few boss mode runs and at least saw Envy's downward red lasers beforehand, did not know extreme right/left was the safe spot til the Normal clear though.

Advanced then? I keep throwing Bakraid the odd credit and liking it more now I see it's Batrider with options. Garegga still feels like a insurmountable ziggurat of difficulty and rank control, but I've always loved this little trilogy, even 20 years ago when I'd credit feed in MAME I could see the personality.

>>12124551
>2 options is a bit too lame for Gradius but it's a nice easier port.
NES sprite limitations. Life Force is the same way, still plays well and better than Life Force which has serious flicker and none of the movement or scrolling is smooth.

>>12123179
i feel dumb for not knowing this existed, but also not sure how else I would have known. Thanks, anon!

>>12122582
>>12122654

Here's my attempt at it, it's really the part where he mentions the R-9’s arsenal where you can't truly tell if he's saying 'Deadly' or 'Dangerous'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tphCew7Lar0

Dear diary,

Today I learned there is a strategy game spinoff title of Gradius, which also has its own Parodius version.

>>12124963
Information gotta come around some time.

Is Kamui a boy?

>>12124876
iirc it's not a perfect safespot, but works for most boss positions.
I would do advanced now because you are already trained for stage 1 to 5, so it's only two more to learn. Expect stage 6 to be tough, stage 7 not that much actually but the final boss can give you some nearly impossible overlaps to dodge, or end up being extremely easy instead, it's very rng-heavy so you better save up bombs and lives. Not that much of big deal since the stage isn't really difficult.

>>12125360
I knew about Paro Wars but somehow didn't figure out it was meant to parody this.

>>12123179
>bgareggaz
this doesn't show the rank? github says it does but idk it doesnt show in game

im still very confused with intricacies of garegga and i dont want to read a wiki to learn it
but im getting better at surviving so thats something

also did they rip off the whole ost or just that stage 2 track

>>12126303
I thought I was still loading my old rom, the only difference I can actually see is all the ships are available

>>12093538 (OP)
Is Deathsmiles really Cave's easiest 1cc? I can clear some of their novice modes but I want to graduate from novice. DDP is still too difficult for me.

>>12126469
Graduating from novice is a mindset, you have to welcome adversity instead of avoiding it as far as possible while achieving only what you believe is easy enough for you.

>>12126469
it is, just pick Rosa, save a power up before the lava stage, go ham on the rocks to get the 2 extends and bomb spam your way to victory

>>12093538 (OP)
Did you know that Psikyo is being delisted on Steam on Oct 31?
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1261960/view/500587333124358200?l=english
https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/18805/PSIKYO_SHOOTER_Collectors_Bundle/

>>12126792
Those ports were always subpar so it doesn't really make a difference, they're better off on a good emulator.
The real issue is that Sonic Wings Reunion is still there and still complete ass. I hope it didn't kill off the series for good.

>>12126792
I'll just play them all on MAME

>>12126303
>>12126457
Turn on the Stage Edit dipswitch

>>12127148
how the FUCK was I supposed to know that

>>12127148
firerate button isnt working/counter not updating?