Thread 12137303

just finished HL1 for the first time
>Xen isn't actually that bad
why so many people meme it as "the worst experience imaginable"? It's worse than the rest of the game but it's still rather playable
>movement is pure FUN
even without bhops it's just fun to move
>gunplay is good
rather sad that HL2 has no handheld gauss nor gluon tripmines are useless though
>game's much more difficult than HL2
HL2 on hard isn't hard, HL1 on hard resulted in me being fragile even with 100 HP
>Black Mesa remake is so bloated in comparison lmao
look forward for Opposing Force and Blue Shift. From what I know BS is rather mediocre and OF is "run&gun" rather than "Run. Think. Shoot. Live."

>>12137303 (OP)
>why so many people meme it as "the worst experience imaginable"? It's worse than the rest of the game but it's still rather playable
Because most people are morons and aren't worth listening to.

>>12137303 (OP)
I love when games show you insane dreamscapes that just shouldn't exist. Xen is fucking awesome and I hate what they did to it in Black Mesa.

>>12137370
>I love when games show you insane dreamscapes that just shouldn't exist.
Same. Especially when it's at the end of the game like in HL, Thief or System Shock 1&2.

>>12137372
>>12137370
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ohts9r2oOg

>>12137303 (OP)
>why so many people meme it as "the worst experience imaginable"? It's worse than the rest of the game but it's still rather playable
I think I could have this thrown back on me for having lax standards or liking style over substance but most people who play games seem overly sensitive to moderate design bumps in a game, at least from my perspective. the only thing I really found actively unpleasant about xen was the air cannon stage and it just wasn't that big of a deal, was over in 10 minutes.

>>12137303 (OP)
>why so many people meme it as "the worst experience imaginable"?
Two reasons, depending on people.
1) They dislike how the gameplay shifts from small corridors and restricted areas with tight, controlled gunfire to large platforming with a slower pace; I think it's neat, but it's an undestandable critique
2) They have this perception of Half-Life as the "mature FPS that made Doomclones obsolete" when in reality is a very good Quakeclone and the alien weirdness is just part of Quake DNA, so this clashes with their narrative

>>12137303 (OP)
>Xen isn't actually that bad
I think the issue is less that it's objectively terrible on its own, more that if you compare it to the rest of the game it's really tonally strange, and the gameplay isn't as fun. You go essentially from tactical shooting, sneaking and thinky-shooting to something a lot more generic, and it suddenly relies on a not very fun platforming mechanic that hasn't really been used in any of the rest of the game (apart from the tutorial that you played weeks ago). Plus there's that ridiculous ballbag boss, which made most people who played it in the 90s laugh out loud when they saw it.

If you compare it to SS2, there's a lot of foreshadowing about the Many and the biological detritus all around the Von Braun gives you an idea of what's coming. Xen comes out of nowhere and feels like jumping the shark.

>>12137303 (OP)
Xen is great fun, only console fags seethe at it because they cant handle the fp platforming

>>12137303 (OP)
I prefer the PS2 version of HL.
HL2 was disappointing.
Black Mesa is horrendous.

>>12137303 (OP)
>movement is pure FUN
Yup, I replayed them recently and its extremely satisfying to just move in those games. Opposing Force sadly is more bloated and just not as cohesive and well paced as the valve games but its still enjoyable except for a few parts. Blue Shift's power struggle is my favourite level in the old games

Also dont forget to play Uplink too

>>12137370
>>12137537
>and I hate what they did to it in Black Mesa.

The fuck is wrong with you guys? Black Mesa actually feels like a proper lead into HL2 (not that that's a good thing because HL2 sucks dick), but in Black Mesa's case, it does exactly what it needed to do.

>>12137518
theres a ton of platforming before xen too though, like in lambda core for example, you also get introduced to the catapults while still back mesa

>>12137540
I don't like HL2, BM is basically a modded HL2, not HL1.
Also, the aesthetic changes; the two most important aspect in a videogame to me are gameplay first and presentation second, with narrative coming in only if I like those two enough.
Presentation is visual style, sound design, use of texture, lightning, OST etc, you know everything that isn't gameplay.
I really like the presentation of HL1, especially the PS2 version, and everything about BM is worse, because higher fidelity is not a goal, is a conscious decision when you select a style for your game, and I don't want HL1 to look like that.
It's the equivalent of those UE5 Mario grassfield tech demos that make everything a glossy highpoly model and then goes "Nintendo hire this man!".

>>12137558
>BM is basically a modded HL2

Yeah and nobody in HL2 gibs like they do in BM and the combine having fucking god awful boring AI unlike BM.

>>12137558
>I really like the presentation of HL1, especially the PS2 version
Why? I always thought the PS2 version was a total downgrade (I haven't played it, just assumed).

>>12137586
Not them but I don't know why you'd assume that. Console ports weirdly have a better fidelity than the original. Deus Ex on PS2 looks pretty good for example, except for all the load times they had to cram in.

HL1 is my favorite fps of all time and it was like that since i first played it back in 2000. anyone who attempts to seriously criticize the game in order to diminish its influence retroactively is lame.

>>12137303 (OP)
People wanted more shoot, less former

>>12137508
>2) They have this perception of Half-Life as the "mature FPS that made Doomclones obsolete" when in reality is a very good Quakeclone and the alien weirdness is just part of Quake DNA, so this clashes with their narrative
Tbh HL1 is still a "mature FPS" that killed the storysynopsis.txt situation with doom clones
>>12137539
>Also dont forget to play Uplink too
just finished it, I like it when demos aren't just first levels of the main game
>>12137545
platforming in Xen is awkward due to jump module + low gravity desu
>>12137537
>>12137540
>HL2 sux
I rarely use vidya boards but /vr/'s dislike for HL2 is basically a site-wide meme now kek

>>12137303 (OP)
I recently played through HL1 for the first time as well. Amazing game. Great environmental story telling, every location made sense in the context of the game. Every room a puzzle. It was a great experience. I appreciate hl2 for what it was but I didn’t not enjoy it as much as hl1

>>12137753
I don't hate HL2, it's a good game, just inferior to HL1

>>12137592
You're wrong in the case of HL1

Half-Life 1 is one of the best FPS of all time.
Half-Life 2 is a glorified tech demo.

I like both games, they mog Gaylo so hard .
That game is so terrible.

>>12137310
fpbp
My jaw dropped when I first got to Xen as a wee lad. It felt truly alien and jarring compared to the rest of the game. However the exact reasons I had to love Xen were the reasons that others had for hating it. I can't understand these people on a fundamental level. I can only conclude we're different, but deep down I want to make a judgment of these people and say they're all just plebs, and that it was a case of pearl before swine. The penultimate arc of Half-Life which in my mind was such an artistic tour-de-force, was to them just frustrating. "Where marine? Where more corridor? Why me have freedom of movement? Me want shoot human!" And that mentality is precisely what led to a decade of ugly, dull, brown and boring first person shooters which has now hit a dead end. Devs should never ever listen to these people.

>>12138051
Xen just wasn't fun. Slowly plodding around alien landscapes, looking for the next macguffin that unlocks the next section, those airlaunch pads that are just tedious to use, the game becoming a 3D 1st person platformer with the longjump, that giant headcrab fight that had untelegraphed invincible moments. It was a piece of shit, poorly constructed, and very obviously rushed.

>>12138062
>slowly plodding
Stopped reading there. You can just frame anything you've been conditioned by popular opinion to dislike in negative terms and expect it to stick, but not with me. Nobody has ever looked at Half-Life 1 and considered the movement "slow and plodding" especially not in a part of the game that gives you extended levels of mobility with the long-jump module and a reduction in gravity to allow you to actually make use of it without dying. "Slowly plodding" my ass. That's entirely in your head. Maybe that's how you played this game, slowly plodding, maybe because you're easily confused and maybe because you played this game only once - or suffer from a memory issue where you instantly forget how to progress every time you play. But I'm not Valve and I don't believe the lowest common denominator should in any way be considered the norm. Playtesters are cancer.

>>12138117
>You can just frame anything you've been conditioned by popular opinion to dislike
I disliked it when I played it at 10 years old, I disliked it when I played it multiple times again from 12-16, I disliked it ESPECIALLY when I did a crowbar-only run (but that shouldn't count). I didn't dislike it because I was "conditioned". I disliked it because of genuine issues which you were too close-minded to even engage with, so I'll do the same as you did and not read after your first two sentences.

>>12137545
>>12137753
>platforming in Xen is awkward due to jump module + low gravity desu

Beat me to it. Also, the jump module is introduced just before Xen in the main game, and up until that point isn't used outside of the tutorial.

I'd also note that the main two bits of platforming I can remember due to their frustration before that point is the Lamda Core, and that bit with the containers floating in mid-air. I'd say the ratio is maybe 1:10 max - depending on how badly you get stuck.

With Xen, I'd say frustrating platforming feels more like 1:4. It is a very different feeling game, which isn't always bad, but it just feels poorly integrated.

And, not that it matters, but I played the game in 1997, and have completed it multiple times since. BM was definitely an improvement for Xen.

>>12138234
>but I played the game in 1997
FUCKING JOURNO WITH HIS HL ALPHA DISC
GETOUTGETOUTGETOUGETOUTGETOUT
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>Complaining about the platforming in Xen
You're supposed to be crashing into walls and giant spikes to stop your forward movement so you can drop straight down safely onto the platforms. How are you people having trouble with this?

>>12138252
>1997
My bad - it was probably 1999 I played the full game looking again at the release dates.

>>12138257
I think what you've found there is a bug that you've turned into a feature. If it makes it more enjoyable for you, then great.

>>12138294
>bug
Anon, when you jump while running towards a wall, the wall stops you from going forward. It's not a bug, it's basic videogame programming. Use it to your advantage if you can't judge a perfect jump arc onto narrow platforms surrounded by death pits.
I really shouldn't need to explain this.

>>12137540
BM took the short Xen levels and turned it into a fucking hodge podge of plug puzzles. That alone makes it inferior to the original.
If you guys thought Xen was slowly plodding around alien landscapes. Then Black Mesa takes that turns it up to 11.
Don't get me wrong, I like Black Mesa but in no way is it a straight upgrade. I hate when people just say you should play it instead of original. It's just not the same game anymore. It's a re-imagining by fans for the fans.

What killed HL threads?
They used to be more common

>>12137586
The PS2 version has the HiDef models which were added in the Blue Shift expansion pack for PC. It also has things like animated Health and HEV Suit Chargers. That's only taking visuals into account. It also has Decay with co-op and that little bonus level you play as Vortigaunt.

It definitely has some visual upgrades despite the cut up levels cause of RAM issues. Don't believe me? You can play the PS2 port as a mod on the PC version these days.

The series will be always better than Doom and Halo.

>>12138368
The ice age.

>>12137539
I love the way the Half Life 1 character controller makes you feel like a physical object in a world with clear rules. I loved jumping around on little pieces of level geometry and trying to crouch jump up to new places, pushing boxes around and experimenting.

The platforming was a really great way to break up all the shooting and button pressing. I love platforming in Thief as well.

We need a Half Life/Valve general

>>12138359
i didnt even do that and still had no trouble with xen platforming, it was pretty fun actually

the xen biofactory fuckery with the enslaved vortigaunts was great and creepy af btw, I still find new shit in it after all these years and I played the game like 5 times

>>12137303 (OP)
I grew up playing a lot of cs 1.6, also loved hl2 when it came out... but was a typical teenager who played mostly Goldeneye and Halo.

Finally got around to playing Half Life 1 and I was totally blown away at the experience. I think the pacing is by far the best I've ever seen in a single player game. You're just never bored, never a dull moment, always something interesting and challenging and fun to face (playing on hard).

I really love the level design, the platforming, the puzzle solving, and the combat is pretty good. I do wish there was more feedback on shots, but otherwise just an incredible game.

What astounds me is that nobody really followed up with a first person shooter that followed the half life 1 recipe of no cutscenes, pure gameplay, 30% exploration, 30% puzzles / platforming, 40% action, wrapped up with a cohesive story / theme.

You should play Blue Shift first.

>>12137303 (OP)
You should play Delta Particles.

>>12139070
Crowbar hit detection is completely broken to hell in Delta Particles.

>>12137303 (OP)
hyperbole is the internets' language

>>12138457
>but was a typical teenager who played mostly Goldeneye and Halo.

>be me
>be Russian
>never played Halo
>never played Goldeneye
>never play cod: modern slopware
>my body runs on goldsrc and source
>learn english
>read about the game from the Western Internet
>check them out
>console shooters that can't compete with HL1 nor 2
>бyгypт? Бyгypт

>>12137303 (OP)
>Half-Life
Worst game I've had the displeasure of playing.

>>12139753
>the game
the games
anyway these shooters are overrated
I hate consolecucks so much it's unreal

>>12138457
based zoomer, HL1 is indeed one of the best paced games of all time

>>12137508
>They have this perception of Half-Life as the "mature FPS that made Doomclones obsolete" when in reality is a very good Quakeclone

This ones just objectively wrong unless you're exclusively looking at the raw gameplay and nothing else. What made Half-Life such a game changer was it's presentation, environments that actually feel like they could exist, with a story that's told organically through the gameplay instead of the occasional wall of text filling you in on what just happened.

Xen on it's own isn't bad, not great but not bad. But it sucks because it kinda throws out everything that made Half-Life unique at the end. No more organic transitions between chapters, now it's just literally being teleported from one random area to the next. No more plausible environments, back to abstract "levels", with the grand finale being fighting a huge monster you hadn't seen before in a large mostly empty room. It's not terrible, but man is it an anti-climax after the unique gameplay and presentation that had come before it. It'd be like if you were playing through Final Fantasy VII and then the final disc of the game was just a medieval knight saving a princess from a dragon.

>>12140098
nta but I find it amusing that disconnected level packs with weird alien shit were "the thing" in 1996 but became obsolete in just two years with Half-Life
goes to show how quickly the industry progressed back in the day

>>12137540
I like BM but it's not Half Life 1. It's interesting take on it but some stuff is changed when it shouldn't been. Xen is completely different world now, funny how their take on it was destroyed half a month later when HLAlyx released with much more original on Xen.

On a Rail was butchered because plebs are spatially challenged and can't into looping maps. I highly recommend Uncut+loop mod, but they should be part of the game and not something on workshop.

There's many smaller things about it that I can't put into worlds because I'm ESL, it's something you see when playing it right after original. I still love it though, but nu Xen is cancer and leaves bad taste in my mouth

Black Mesa could never
https://youtu.be/izT5i2nFY-w

>>12137303 (OP)
HL2 is a downgrade in every single way except graphics. AI is pure slop.

>>12137303 (OP)
Xen was fucking awesome, Without HL1 the rest of the franchise excluding other goldsrc games is just a shitty Russian apartment complex with gray and white policemen everywhere, also HL1 has multiple crack-life games as a bonus , HL2s only quality is that it gave Gmod after

>>12138051
Fact

Between single player, deathmatch, team fortress classic, day of defeat, and of course, counter strike, I have never got more value and enjoyment from any game purchase ever. And it's not even close.

>>12137370
>and I hate what they did to it in Black Mesa.
Good god I just looked up what that looks like. Revisionist tier stuff. If you like a game and want to remaster it, that doesn't mean "except for the large chunks I don't like!!"

>>12140309
>On a Rail was butchered because plebs are spatially challenged and can't into looping maps.
It's weird, because I never had a problem with the original On a Rail but my principle complaint with Cen is how "unreadable" the maps are. Where am I going? Why? Is this the critical path, a side path, an irrelevant piece of geometry? Can I jump down here? No, that kills me.
The Black Mesa levels are weird in strict "does it meet fire code" terms but I always felt like I knew which way was forward and what was important or a possible side room or whatnot.

>>12140334
>>12140331
Still better than gaylo

>>12138257
The point isn't that it's difficult. The point is that it's unfun and a weird departure from the gameplay thus far.

This belief that HL2 is bad or mediocre or substantially worse than HL1 is insane to me. The two games are equally excellent, but for different reasons. HL2 was an instant classic when it first released. The Episodes were kinda gay though.

>>12140887
Halo? lmao i never played it i wouldn't know

>>12140890
Clearing several meters in a short hop is more fun than sprinting or bunnyhopping.

>>12140896
HL2 is great except for any time a vehicle is involved. Extra true for the end of E2 which is so terrible I never bothered to finish it. Combo of an escort mission for fragile bombs, a shit vehicle, the joke gun and a multi-site defence mission. It's like the developers wanted to specifically design the worst possible ending setpiece.

>>12140896
HL2 is not a bad game but HL1 is a legendary game. They are not on the same level

That said, thanks for pointing out the Episodes are bad. I always felt bad about not playing those but now I'm thinking it's fine

xen is a really nice change of pace, really turns the game back into a survival horror. really captures quake's episode 3 tagline
>Primal fear in a strange dimension...

>>12137539
i used to think opposing force was better than the base game but as i grew up i realized it's actually pretty directionless.
field intensity is a better take on it

>>12137370
>>12137372
>>12140602
Wow, this is some revionist-tier cope. Everyone, even Valve, stated that Xen was rushed and unfinished. Black Mesa's interpretation of it is pretty spectacular.

Lemme guess, the blank floating islands and orange sky were somehow "sUpErIoR"?

>>12141351
Left
>unique take on alien world, clearly showing that this space was never meant to be livable. Also canon, as was shown by Half Life Alyx, the most recent game in series
Right
>James Cameron's Half Life

you have terrible taste anon, I pity you

>>12141351
>rushed and unfinished
But never bad.
Xen is a borderworld. It's supposed to be a desolate landscape with few remaining spots of solid ground.

>>12141351
On the left, cool triangles and shit, floating islands flying mutant space ballsack, on the right, RTX SeaWorld with Samsung galaxy texture

>>12141382
>>12141397
Man, these fungi-like skyboxes look so surreal even now.

on that topic, are there any mods for half life that have more xen kino?

>>12141408
this part was so fucking bizarre and eerie

>>12141408
>>12141410
but to answer your question, Someplace Else has that. guy went on to make Minerva for HL2 and got hired by Valve. Field Intensity also has a rather lengthy, actually fun Xen segment.

>>12141401
Personally I'm a fan of that mirrored one >>12141385

There's many more xen skyboxes that were unused but in the files:
https://youtu.be/idLFraOTUrs?t=283

>>12141410
>>12141413
I gotta replay the game, get into some mods. Never tried any before, only did base game and expansion. Does Decay have Xen sections?

>>12141351
>blank floating islands and orange sky were somehow "sUpErIoR"
Yes, Black Mesa made Xen into such a beautiful and hospitable place that permanent human bases could be installed there; that's stupid. I absolutely detest the term "liminal", but Xen (the literal borderworld) felt liminal because it was incompatible with everything that makes sense and was not remotely Earthlike.

The reason Valve aren't proud of the original Xen isn't because they failed to make it a slog lightshow that lasts half the damn game; it's because the level design and bosses were mediocre.

>>12141490
that fanfictiony vortigaunt village was such an odd addition. the HEV zombies were really cool though.

>>12141425
It actually doesn't, iirc.

>>12141490
The original Xen felt liminal, that is.

BM expedition lab and Vortigaunt village were actually my favourite parts of nu Xen. Those can stay the rest can get fucked

>>12141589
Same here, I especially liked the tired Vort who just lets you in because he can't be bothered anymore and doesn't give a shit.
The rest was just too much and too long and the aesthetic of Xen was completely ruined. I do not like being able to see the Nihilanth's fortress first thing as soon as I enter the dimension, it should exist in a black void.

>>12141175
Vehicle chapters are actually my favorite part of the game
Replaying Highway 17 is always fun to me
(I do understand why people hate them though)

>>12141497
>that fanfictiony vortigaunt village was such an odd addition
>>12141589
>Vortigaunt village were actually my favourite parts
The duality of man

one thing I find odd about BM Xen is delivery packages with ammo from Lambda Team
They make you feel less abandoned in Xen as long as you forget teleroom getting raped by xen controllers

>>12141351
Neither is good.
Xen stans can eat my ass.

>>12141351
I'm not crazy about Xen, I'm just always amused by modders who start out by creating a vanilla+ but then do a full 180 and decide "actually THIS is what the original authors should have done!" It's arrogant nonsense.

>>12142471
you're arrogant nonsense. nobody liked xen. the modders changed xen because fuck original xen. even the guy you replied to established that even valve hated their xen.
>yeah lemme just faithfully recreate this bowl of shit real quick, don't wanna disrespect the original dev's vision, nuh-uh, no sirree!
kick rocks lil bro

>>12142480
As HL Alyx showed, the Xen everyone saw is canon. Nobody cares what you think.

>>12142483
epic zinger, certainly doesn't apply to yourself if you had any level of critical thinking, xenfag

>>12141497
>that fanfictiony vortigaunt village was such an odd addition
For me it was the best part of Xen, IMO. One of my biggest complaints about Xen is the fact that it's meant to portray that the vorts aren't truly hostile, just slaves who've been ordered to attack, but Half-Life does such a shit job of conveying that to you because the first thing a player will do when they see a vort is shoot which then makes them hostile. They're not waiting to see if it's actually passive, so most people won't even KNOW they're friendly at first.

There's no real sense of the nihilanth army/vortigaunt dynamic, pretty much all info we have is from media outside of the actual game.

>>12137370
>>12137537
>>12138363
>>12141375
Mommy! Mommy! The old thing is better than the new thing! I'm telling them! Can you see!

Consider that classic Xen opens with this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEFW2ha-ZYE
BMS Xen opens with this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S22AEtiLsI

>>12137303 (OP)
>even without bhops it's just fun to move
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtI5HM7GVGY

>>12142483
>muh canon
>muh Alyx
Not surprised that Xen fags are a bunch of simps obsessing over muh lore.