Chapters 3 & 4 are right around the corner. What was your favorite fangame release during the wait? How do you think fangames will be affected by the new chapters?

Are you developing a fangame? Post progress!

Well Anon, how many of these do you know about? I scored about a 95%. Are you a true Undertale Yellow Truck Freak?

>>3770205 (OP)
>How do you think fangames will be affected by the new chapters?
I'm afraid that toby will take DR in such a direction that forces all fangames to be AU and unable to fit within canon

>>3770205 (OP)
>What was your favorite fangame release during the wait?
DRY, easily. Its my favorite UT/DR fangame period.

>How do you think fangames will be affected by the new chapters?
I imagine they'll take a lot of influence from them, even ignoring any shocking lore reveals. They'll probably inspire more fangames as well.

>Are you developing a fangame? Post progress!
I don't have progress to post on Oldentale itself, but I did write a 7,000 word line green a few days ago. I posted it in the /v/ thread and the previous /vrpg/ thread but it was near the end of both, so it didn't get much attention. I'm still looking for feedback. https://rentry.org/5p4rmo4h

So this will be the plan for my uty kicking myself in the balls run:
-set clovers maximum health to one hp
-change clover attack stat from 10 to 4
-change clover defense stats from 10 to 1
-only allow two to three items in clovers inventory
-set clover exp to -5000
-set clover gold to -1000
-unbind my run key
-delete the save file if I die 10 times, in a section. copy and paste the save file if I survive the section.
-wear a eyepatch
alright lets see how painful this is

>>3770601
why are you doing this?

>>3770621
Multiple reasons:
1. Pure curiosity.
-I want to see what type of emotions and thoughts I will have when doing this. Im curious at what my emotional and mental state would be by the end of the week or month.
-Im also curious if I have the skills to do it. If im good enough at the game to beat this challenge.
2. activating my neurons:
-I noticed that when I do these types of challenges before, I tend to play the game differently. For example, when I played half life 2 with only one hp, I started focusing more on the gameplay mechanics and etc of the world so I could live.
I want to see how the same process applies to uty. And if this could make me understand uty a lot more.

>>3770624
>I noticed that when I do these types of challenges before, I tend to play the game differently.
edit:
I noticed that when I do these types of challenges before, I tend to play games differently.

>>3770624
Whats the extent of what counts as a challenge for you? Like, whats the line between a challenge run and simply doing some silly stuff in a playthrough like not using the run button?
(Also, nice, a fellow half-life player)

reposted since I need to fix errors
>>3770637
>Whats the extent of what counts as a challenge for you? Like, whats the line between a challenge run and simply doing some silly stuff in a playthrough like not using the run button?
to answer your question, it depends if its "playable"/winnable enough.
-if its absolute bs where there is no possibility at all to win against, then thats my limit.
-For example if the enemies have defense and hp buffs to the point it takes multiple hrs to kill them, and it takes one hit for me to die, then im not going to do that. That type of challenge is so impossible to the point it goes to unwinniable territory.
>some silly stuff in a playthrough like not using the run button
I would technically count some of the silly stuff (run button) as part of the challenge if its combined with other challenge stuff.
However if the silly stuff makes the game pretty much unplayable (screen fades to black every 10 secs) then thats just not for me.
>fellow half-life player
fellow half life enjoyer

>>3770637
>>3770649
also should mention that if its extremely annoying, too tedious, autistic, boring, and mind-numbing then i dont tolerate that either
-player character can only walk 1 inch after touching the move key for an hr.
-game flashes repeatedly to the point I get a seizure
-game wont save at all and if you die, you reset from the beginning
-player character walks like a snail, or enemies have constant unavoidable attacks
Basically my tolerance level is the game being difficult but not to the level that I just cant play it.

Replying to the Underfell Yellow anon from last thread. I would link to it, but I don't really understand how.
Here are the errors I found and suggestions I have, organized by pastebin line:

18:
- "better-cared-for" doesn't need to be hyphenated.
-the phrase "grow so prosperous" implies the accrual of wealth, and is also a touch redundant. Perhaps replace with "prosper."

20 - "Member" is technically appropriate, since being an observer can qualify as being a member of something, but he didn't really participate.

22 - Continuity Error: Asgore is seated in his throne, but the second sentence describes him as "...[standing] motionless."

23 - The comma in "a hatred, for humanity" should probably go. If you want to keep the pause, consider restructuring into two sentences. My own take:
"It was alien, pained, but one thing shone through it all: hate. For humanity.

83 - Last sentence, corrupted word: "spready"

114 - "Prating" I thought this was a corrupted word at first, but I looked it up and no, it's not. I note it nonetheless because this is a word that 99.9% of people won't know and context clues leave a lot of interpretations.


That was a good read, anon. You have talent.
Really interested in seeing more.

Ceroba wasnt a bad character. A lot of the issues people have with her was because of the ending. Before the ending she wasnt bad at least.
If the ending was better no one would have hated ceroba. Or at least barely anyone would have

Undertale Yellow is about the story of a human with a soul of justice, but what if a different human who valued justice and order fell into the underground?
What if JC Denton replaced Clover?

>>3770702
All you'd have to do to fix Ceroba's story (and by extension, her character) is make it so that she didn't willingly inject Kanako with the serum, instead having Kanako inject herself with the serum behind Ceroba's back or something. That one change completely fixes any problems Ceroba has, since it allows her to still feel guilty about having failed as a mother and whatnot while not making her a complete fuckup like she is by default.

>>3770741
>Roba tells JC about Kanako and Chujin
>*lip smack* "What a shame"

>>3770744
(edited and reposted since I needed to fix errors)

>since it allows her to still feel guilty about having failed as a mother and whatnot while not making her a complete fuckup like she is by default.
EXACTLY
And also make ceroba at least ask clover if they know what asgore plans to do with their soul. That way you also dont get three adults allowing a kid to unknowingly suicide in a way that helps a genocidal plan; A genocidal plan that plans to exterminate that same kid's species.
There easy fix.

>>3770757
>And also make ceroba at least ask clover if they know what asgore plans to do with their soul. That way you also dont get three adults allowing a kid to unknowingly suicide for a cause in favor of exterminating the kids species.
Suicide should be written out anyway. His sacrifice should be about him deciding to face Asgore alone, even if he knows he can't win, instead of just willingly giving up his soul.

>>3770763
ah but my friend dont you know? Why would clover suicide when they hear the genocide plan? If ceroba tells clover about it, clover would immediately go to asgore

>>3770759
JC ends up pissing Ceroba off by throwing an EMP grenade directly at Axis' face when they first encounter him.

DRYanon2 here.
fixed two bugs with the movement system,
>bug 1: slight jitter on followers.
>cause: rigidbody2d.velocity
>bug 2: every few seconds, followers would hang for a second
>cause: rooted at cole's position not actually updating for a frame
>solution: setting "maximum allowed timestep" to be the same as "fixed timestep". this certainly wont cause any future problems.
back to the battle system tomorrow.
>bonus bug: occasionally, follow distance would double or halve while movement logic is in FixedUpdate
>cause: ???
>solution: set up an in game fps tracker. bug does not appear even with the deletion of said tracker.
coding is fun.

>>3770769
ah didnt finish bug one
>bug 1: slight jitter on followers.
>cause: rigidbody2d.velocity is inconsistent
>solution: move the rigid body directly

>>3770764
Why keep the whole suicide plot then anyway? Clover's a Justice soul, let him do the Justice thing.
>Clover decides to see Asgore anyway
>Starlo, Martlet and Ceroba insist on tagging on to help him plead his case
>he somehow manages to ditch them (shoots out elevator controls, blows up a corridor with dynamite he stole from Starlo when they were hugging, anything)
>comes to Asgore
>Asgore asks him if he understands he has no chance of winning this fight
>Clover nods
Maybe add Clover shooting out MERCY button and Asgore thanking him, if it's not too extreme and edgy.

>>3770741
>"Let's try some word-association. First word: determination."

>>3770775-
I wanted to keep the suicide plot so to explain why clover doesnt suicide. But you are right its better to just not include it at all since clover can just do the justice thing aka its pointless.
>greentext
Nothing I disagree with here.
>Maybe add Clover shooting out MERCY button and Asgore thanking him, if it's not too extreme and edgy.
Its not too extreme and would fit as a nice parallel to asgore destroying the mercy button during the frisk fight. And I can see asgore saying thank you.
Now for the fight itself i need to think. Specifically where does flowey fit into this? Does he eventually give up after clover dies to asgore multiple times? And if so how do you implement that?

>>3770799
>Its not too extreme and would fit as a nice parallel to asgore destroying the mercy button during the frisk fight. And I can see asgore saying thank you.
I just wanted something in the style of spaghetti western. Some big gesture from protagonist.
>Specifically where does flowey fit into this?
With his stellar performance it is easy to forget that Flowey does not fits into UTY at all. Not only he goes against the timeline, but what is his plan anyway? Steal six souls and then sit in the Underground twiddling his roots and waiting for seventh human? Try and steal all the monster souls in hopes there's enough to open the barrier? Anyway, it's better not to overthink it and do whatever the original team did - he just gauges the power levels and agrees that the fight is unwinnable and it's better to let go and wait for the next human.

>>3770819
>Anyway, it's better not to overthink it and do whatever the original team did - he just gauges the power levels and agrees that the fight is unwinnable and it's better to let go and wait for the next human.
so just a repetition of flawed pacifist I see. Would this also apply to the battle too?
Will the battle just be mostly a repetition of flawed pacifist? How different will it be besides the mercy button?.
>I just wanted something in the style of spaghetti western. Some big gesture from protagonist.
Oh yeah I can see that.

>>3770826
Yeah, I think Flawed Pacifist is fine for both endings, just a different framing for it (and trim Starlo's rant on Flawed, holy shit it's a disgrace).

>>3770832
>Yeah, I think Flawed Pacifist is fine for both endings, just a different framing for it
fair
>and trim Starlo's rant on Flawed, holy shit it's a disgrace).
Yes 100 percent agree with ya on that. Remove that fucking abomination. I know starlo was a simp for ceroba but christ wtf was that

>>3770837
>Remove that fucking abomination.
I would not go as far. Leave it, just make it short and impactful. Deserved or not, you were executing a defenseless opponent in cold blood.

>>3770840
> Leave it, just make it short and impactful.
okay fine just make it a lot less wordy and preachy I guess.

I wanted to like UT Yellow but every time the game presented stakes, they got deflated not even a couple seconds later. Same with Furry Quest, this one being merely inspired by Undertale, not a fangame itself.

I feel like fan games and people inspired by Toby get a lot of the friendly vibes taken by Earthbound but not the mysterious or scary vibes that Toby himself got from Yume Nikki, so the fan material ends up falling flat.

>>3770819
>what is his plan anyway? Steal six souls and then sit in the Underground twiddling his roots and waiting for seventh human? Try and steal all the monster souls in hopes there's enough to open the barrier?
If you need a monster soul and a human soul to go through the barrier, then flowey can go to the surface with 6 human souls and get the 7th there, boom, easy flowey god scenario

So, to sum it up, biggest issues that need to be fixed in UTY:
>Ruins need to be completely redone
>Kanako should jab herself
>Pacifist ending should be changed as outlined above
>maybe trim the ending of Feisty Five arc, there's too much bla-bla-bla

>>3771149
Yeah that seems to be accurate. Also maybe add in further explanation regarding martlet and her connections with the true lab's determination syringe. And add in a explanation on how that mask works.
Those two are just confusing.

>>3770798
You think you know better than FEMA what to do with this month's determination shipment?

>>3771162
> add in further explanation regarding martlet and her connections with the true lab's determination syringe.
Just make it so that the syringe she uses is just some version of the serum Chujin was developing, like he gave it to her sometime before he died or something as a contingency plan just in case.
>And add in a explanation on how that mask works.
The mask itself doesn't do anything, it's just a physical object that's representative of something Ceroba has a strong emotional attachment to, which gives her a power boost as a result. It's like how Undyne says she feels the hearts of all the people in the world beating as one before she transforms into The Undying, she isn't actually gaining the energy of everyone in the world like Goku charging a spirit bomb, she's just feeling a strong emotional attachment (in her case, to the world and the people living in it), which gives her a massive determination boost and allows her to rebuild her body. Ceroba's experiencing the same thing in her pacifist fight, it's just that her emotional attachment is to a physical object instead of a vague metaphorical feeling, so everyone's brain falls out their ass and they start wondering why the mask is so powerful.

Isn't it weird that Kakyoin never used that painting ability again after that one scene?

>>3770741
Undertale Yellow is about the story of a human with a soul of justice, but what if a different human who valued justice and order fell into the underground?
What if a pro justice courier replaced clover.

>>3770841
>"So this is your idea of justice."
>"Judge, jury and executioner."
>throws gun on the floor, leaves
Good enough or cringe?

>>3771171
alright okay so for the syringe its just:
-a variation of chujins syringe
yeah that fixes the weird true lab issue.
>The mask itself doesn't do anything, it's just a physical object that's representative of something Ceroba has a strong emotional attachment to, which gives her a power boost as a result.
okay fine so the ceroba scene was just fox moms undyne the undying moment. Makes sense
Okay those two are fixed now time to think about any other ones.

Tobert Fox revealed to me in a hazy vision that Father Alvin is The Roaring Knight

>>3771173
Its better than the previous one but its somewhat CORNY. (desu idk if this is the right word to describe it)
Make it better, anon.

>>3771183
>utg is leaking

Clover's sacrifice scene should really just be them heading for Asgore to give up their soul while Starlo, Martlet, and Ceroba beg them not to, like the tenth Doctor putting himself in the radiation chamber to free Wilfred Mott.

>>3771237
>Clover's sacrifice scene should really just be them heading for Asgore to give up their soul while Starlo
This is still problematic. Why would clover bring their soul to asgore, whose plan is to genocide clovers species?

>>3771248
he would try to kill asgore to free the other souls (but fail, but there should still be a small chance to win for a non canon ending)

>>3771251
okay that would be good. I have no further disagreements.

So its true that chujin was forced into awful working conditions. And in many ways it was fault of the company for forcing chujin into possible tight deadlines and being overseen by ai like (mr screen). You can indeed argue it was partly the companys fault for chujins failure.
The weird thing though is chujin doesnt attack or blame that. Chujin can make some pretty valid arguments attacking the working culture and conditions that the steamworks had. But instead he constructs a narrative that he was this grand visionary. Someone who was attacked not because of failing to adapt to the company but because people didnt treat things seriously.
Its fascinating and I have a suspicion why chujin does this. Chujin, despite having justifiable reasons for failing, still fumbled badly. His axis projects were repeated failures. He humiliated himself and to an extension the company, by burning the kings children grave. He even got a u tried award.
If chujin, in the basement, said he failed because he couldnt work "well" then it means acknowledging his failures. So instead he constructs the narrative that he was being punished for being a visionary. That way he distances himself from any mistakes or failures of the past while at the same time inflating his own ego

>>3771262
Like think about it chujin had two options in the basement:
*He could have acknowledged that he fucked up. After all a company would have pretty justifiable reason to fire someone who:
-failed his robot projects multiple times
-burned down the kings children grave
-got a u tried award
*the company had a lot of justifiable reasons to fire chujin. And chujin could have reflected on those reasons humbly
BUT HE DOESNT DO THAT IN THE BASEMENT
he instead chooses the second option
*blame the company for not taking things seriously. Say that given enough time he could have developed the project well. Say that he was being punished for taking things seriously.
*Dont acknowledge any fault just portray himself as this tragic visionary.
He chooses the egotistical option instead of the humble one. Its fascinating

>>3771267
>He chooses the egotistical option instead of the humble one.
The smartass racist fox is too egotistical to be humble about it? Color me surprised.

>>3771276
so you agree with my analysis....

>>3771162
>regarding martlet and her connections with the true lab's determination syringe
It would work better if it were Chujin's serum. Not only would it be more alternatively relevant, but it would make more sense. Alphys's serum is meant to make monsters' souls persist after death. Maybe it does that by making them a boss monster, but that's never really stated or implied. Meanwhile the stated purpose of Chujin's serum is to turn normal monsters into boss monsters.

A PSA to any fangame devs: don't use the newest version of gamemaker for your fangame. They broke Windows 7 support a few months ago and have no intention of fixing. Even with hex editor work and compatibility layers I still wasn't able to get Wildfire to run because of this. If you must use gamemaker, I'd suggest using the LTS version that Deltarune uses, because it still works on WIndows 7.

>>3771300
anon maybe it's time to move out of windows 7 into linux

>>3771304
Three things 1) That's what I'm doing right now, and I'm hoping it works. Gaming on Linux is ass, especially on old hardware. 2) Its a pixel rpg fangame based on a game which will run happily on Windows XP. 3) As a dev you should be targeting the minimum possible hardware you could feasibly develop for.

I'm not expecting the Wildfire team to switch engine versions again right after they updated to the newest version, but I am telling any other devs that it's a bad idea to start development on that engine. Especially considering the majority of your potential audience is going to be poors and third worders (see all the gamejolt download statistics posted in the previous threads)

>>3771308
I guess if you're still stuck on 32bit processors then it will become increasingly hard to get games to work
all I can is wish you good luck

>>3771248
I've already posted my thoughts on this before and don't feel like typing it out again, so here ya go.

>>3771314
And I sent you this though
blackjack:
"Humans"
"* Humans, huh?#"
"* Well, I'm afraid there's no# sugar-coating it. Humans such# as yourself are widely# disdained in the Underground.#"
"* It's popular to root for their# annihilation, even.#"
"* So much loss... So much grief...# #"
"* The wicked actions of# humankind are forever etched in# our history, only to subside# once King ASGORE obtains seven# of their SOULs and judgment is# brought upon the Surface.#"
ceroba:
"Life down here... it's miserable. That's why they look for assurance. They believe once he gets seven SOULs and breaks the barrier... he'll easily be able to overthrow whatever awaits on the Surface. A rather foolish outlook, if you ask me. Who knows how the humans have prepared for retaliation since then?"
Dina says:
Also theres dinas lines:
"* Heard fears of Royal's bargin' into town? Your presence did cause a stir. Only natural."
"* The government takes human business seriously. Very seriously..."
"* I'm sure you've been hunted and attacked a hundred times by now. Happens every once in a while when a human falls down here.
"* Man, if I didn't have a business to upkeep I'd let whoever's wronged you have it!"

Also remember that clover never learned that the monster attacks were grettings (if they were grettings). So from clovers perspective they were constantly being attacked and even nearly killed by monsters. Which would make clover think monsters were genuine about the genocide plan.

Also remember that starlo directly connects his attempt on clovers life with the kings work.

And well it wouldnt take a lot of brainpower for clover to connect asgores judgement with doing very very bad things to humanity.

>>3771308
Why not get a Windows 10 or 11 then?

>>3771316
>Also remember that clover never learned that the monster attacks were grettings
>grettings
What I meant to type was greetings

>>3771322
he can't he is still using a PC with 32bit processor

>>3771309
>>3771327
I'm using a second PC for this. It's also old, but it is 64-bit.
>>3771322
Runs poorly on old hardware, ads, spyware, general hatred for Windows 10
>11
I think I'd rather stop using computers altogether than use 11.

>>3770273
>cut cheerie cameo
A shame. Martlet carries the torch in her stead.

>>3771295
Alright so another guy for chujin.
>Alphys's serum is meant to make monsters' souls persist after death. Maybe it does that by making them a boss monster, but that's never really stated or implied. Meanwhile the stated purpose of Chujin's serum is to turn normal monsters into boss monsters.
good point, it would fit a lot more if it was chujins serum. Martlet injects it when she was alive and healthy. She doesnt get injected when shes a fallen down state.
Chujins serum fits the purpose a lot more. Though my question to you is doesnt this mean chujins serum worked then? Why does he ask ceroba to continue it when he succesfully found the solutiion?

>>3771366
iirc, the serum was made by injecting a boss monster (himself) with raw human soul extract. Presumably to produce more serum you would need another boss monster. So he was telling Ceroba to go out and find another one so his research could continue. In this hypothetical rewrite, the syringe Martlet injected herself with would be the one syringe of boss monster serum he made before dying.

>>3771377 (edited and reposted)
Yeah that makes sense so instead of ceroba looking for more subjects so to continue chujins research, its instead ceroba looking for more subjects so to continue producing successful ones. I dont see any issue with that
>the syringe Martlet injected herself with would be the one syringe of boss monster serum he made before dying.
What a fascinating parallel. Just like how axis seems to be the only succesful robot chujin made (correct me if this is wrong) chujin also made one succesful syringe, in the end.

>>3771383
>successful ones.
succesful syringes.

>>3771314
>or hell maybe clover had a different idea in mind, and figured that millions or billions of human deaths was a fair trade for what happened to monsterkind, like some kind of mirror
I disagree with this point the most. Clover is nowhere near the genocidal mindset that they were in vengeance. They were in the direct opposite mindset during pacifist.
For clover to suddenly think that humans should die instead would not fit their characterization at all during the true pacifist route. They were a soul of justice that pursued peaceful means at that point. To think they would embrace genocide at that point would go against what they were doing and who they were overall in pacifist. (a cowboy of peace and mercy)

Finally managed to play the Wildfire demo. It was really fun and had excellent music. I had to stop and let the song play when those two royal guards showed up. The combat kicked my ass at first but I figured it out. I saw the fox lady was using a boar hunting sword, which made me wonder if that was intentional on the devs' part.or just an accident.

What wasn't fun was installing Linux to play it. It refused to recognize higher refresh rates on my monitor and I had to use it at 60 Hz, which was genuinely painful (progressive scan CRTs are not fun to use below 75Hz)

>>3771448
were you using a wayland or xorg based DE? I've been using linux for about a year now with wayland KDE and a nvidia GPU no less and haven't ran into many issues, most games just work with wine 10 or steam's proton

>>3771449
I didn't use proton. Wildfire is a native linux game. It itself ran without issue (after I figured out how to run appimages). It was X not recognizing the EDID from my monitor for whatever reason that was the problem. I had to do a bunch of Googling on eye searing strobe mode, fixed it though a bunch of xrandr fuckery, then lost the fix when I was forced to restart by another issue. Then I just said fuck it, pulled my monitor cable out of the VGA splitter and plugged it straight into the PC. I still couldn't get my monitor's full range, but I at least got something with a decent refresh rate (85, instead of the 100 i prefer to keep it at). And I just lived with the geometry issues that caused.

Its not like this is a new problem either. I've had this happen in one of the previous times I tried linux.

Anyways I was using an Xorg based DE called Trinity. Though the last time this happened was with XFCE.

>>3771456
Is your GPU novideo or ayymd? I recall Xorg being really screwy with CRTs on the former, but I should have a xorg.conf on hand that I recall fixed all my xrandr issues.

>>3771459
Intel HD iGPU. Previously I had the same problem on an AMD.

>>3771481
dont be a faggot about it. just give us a qrd.

>>3771481
>discord

>>3771481
>Discord

what happened here? Did someone mention a discord?

>>3771501
Some anon came in here posting about some shit going on in his discord like we'd know or care what was happening in it.

>>3771510
Huh weird.

>>3771262
>>3771267
So I posted this earlier, do any of you anons here have any criticisms?

>>3771461
Ah, gotcha. Now that I've actually read and comprehended your post properly, yeah I think the splitter was causing the EDID issues.
Based on what you're saying about having similar issues on AMD as Intel, my best guess is that Mesa drivers aren't as robust with the implementations of CVT as proprietary Windows drivers. The workaround that I recall letting me run 1200x900p@100Hz on a RX 570 was to manually create a custom EDID and have the kernel load it. I recall I needed to do this through passing kernel flags via the bootloader, but apparently it's possible to do this through xorg.conf. I don't really remember exactly what I did, but I imagine a "how to overclock a monitor on Linux" guide should point you in the right direction.

>>3771300
Just read this post as well. Do you consider Windows 7 32-bit and OpenGL 2.1 to be a reasonable minimum spec? I agree with your general sentiment, and normally I target XP as the minimum, but I've been experimenting with a new toolchain for my fangame which only seems to go as far back as 7 (with some patches applied).

>>3771300
>>3771308
>Especially considering the majority of your potential audience is going to be poors and third worders (see all the gamejolt download statistics posted in the previous threads)
if you want to reach the poorfag audience, you have to make an android port of your fangames, I saw dozens of comments of people asking for a mobile port of DRY

>>3771543
Im still waiting for the gamejolt people to make an android port. I expected someone would make it but so far no one did, lol

>>3771544
>Im still waiting for the gamejolt people to make an android port. I expected someone would make it but so far no one did, lol
you can't unless you have the source code of DRY, gdsdecomp can't decompile scripts written in C# which is the language DRYanon1 used

>>3771549
Oh I remember some comments were interested in making a dry android port. I also said in one of the announcements that its okay for people to make the android port.
I think I might have screwed over some people, lol

>>3771553
>I think I might have screwed over some people, lol
Yeah I discovered this because I wanted to make an android port for personal use

>>3771564
And others probably will too. Especially since I made that announcement. Welp it happened cant change the past.

>>3771549
I was able to decompile the dll into cs files through dnspy (and manual renaming since I can't into automation), but I still haven't gotten the project working. I think there were some missing dependencies or something, specifically for json loading.
I might look into it again later, but I've since lost the project files lol

>>3770683
I appreciate your proofread, anon. I'll correct those errors. For "prating" I happened to have it on the mind because it was used in a book I myself was reading when I wrote that section, but it's definitely archaic and I'll replace it with "prattling."

>>3770576
I've been meaning to read this but I've been busy or tired any time I would have had the opportunity. I'm definitely interested and I'll have it read and some feedback written for it either tonight or tomorrow night, you have my word

>>3771529
>yeah I think the splitter was causing the EDID issues.
The thing is the splitter is pefrectly capable of passing EDID information on to the system. It does so just fine for my XP machine and for the Windows 7 partition on my "modern" machine. Linux just doesn't like it for whatever reason. Even when I did plug it directly into the display it was still missing most of the options. And the time this happened with my AMD system it was hooked to directly to the monitor.

Like most things on Linux, its clearly a software problem. I already know the solution is to manually enter all the video modes I want to use into the xorg config like I'm a server operator in 1995.

>>3771540
>Do you consider Windows 7 32-bit and OpenGL 2.1 to be a reasonable minimum spec? I
Yeah, that seems reasonable enough. Opengl 2.1 is pretty easy to emulate on systems which don't support it and Windows 7 32-bit will run on anything made in the past 20 years.
>normally I target XP as the minimum,
Now if I were in your position I would be doing anything I could to keep that compatibility, And I'd be seriously considering whether I really need the added features of the new tool chain. That's just me though. Windows 7 is the oldest OS I think its reasonable to expect devs to support, everything else is just a nice bonus.
>with some patches applied
If you mean it needs VxKex or hex editing to work on Windows 7, then it isn't actually compatible with 7, its just being hacked to work on it.

>>3771543
>>3771544
>>3771549
This is why I'm just gonna release the source code of my game when I release the game. That and to show people its not malware.

Thinking about ts!underswap, its kinda weird how you kill koffin k's guys in genocide without him noticing that Harry and Larry are gone

>>3771732
>Linux just doesn't like it for whatever reason. Even when I did plug it directly into the display it was still missing most of the options.
Ah I get what you're saying. Loading a custom EDID with a custom timing (not just trying to specify timings via xrandr) did fix the latter for me at least. It is indeed an absurd workaround, but it got me the results I wanted.
nVidia cards with proprietary drivers tend to work a bit better with CRTs from my experience. If you can find a low-end card for cheap, it may be worth it. The newer the better since anything before Maxwell doesn't get driver updates anymore, but for your needs anything released after 2006 should probably work

>>3771735
If you're curious, the toolchain I'm talking about is a different programming language (Go). I wanted to use this project as an opportunity to practice a language I'm less familiar with, and so far I'm really liking the conveniences Go offers over C. Not enough to completely switch over to it for gamedev, but enough to consider it for other projects where legacy OS compatibility isn't a big concern.
It's still really early in development, so if I wanted to support XP I could probably switch over to C++ without too many setbacks. But right now I'm not leaning towards it.
The patches I'm referring to are to the language itself, which officially dropped support for 7 a couple years ago. But the breaking change is apparently extremely easily to revert. I haven't tried it myself though.
https://github.com/Snawoot/go-win7
XP support was dropped in 1.10, which is too old for the framework I use (raylib-go, requiring 1.21), and I think it's too old a version to use for learning purposes anyway.

Mr. President, the fourth Deltarune thread has hit the /v/

>>3771890
let them, hype season is reaching an all time high since we are less than a week away
but it makes me think a UTY thread might have a hard time surviving this weekend if the concentration of toby threads is too high

>>3771885
>nVidia cards with proprietary drivers tend to work a bit better with CRTs from my experience. If you can find a low-end card for cheap, it may be worth it.
I'll probably just stick with a software solution if for no other reason than that I don't want to track down and buy a low profile gpu with a VGA output just for one game.
> I'm talking about is a different programming language (Go)
I wouldn't use a programming language that makes a habit of regularly dropping OS support. Even Rust manages to maintain a fork with 9x compatibility despite being Rust. If it were made after XP and 7 and never had support to begin with I'd be more charitable, but it once supporting then dropping them is different. It means basically any software you code on it is on death row before you even start development. Do it if you want, but I'd advise against it.
>XP support was dropped in 1.10, which is too old for the framework I use (raylib-go, requiring 1.21),
Here's a fork of Go 1.21 for XP. It looks a bit janky though, so I have no clue if it actually works. https://github.com/BieHDC/go-backports

>>3771901
I incorrectly assumed your use cases extended to more than running this one game. Yeah, upgrading for just one game is definitely not worthwhile, and when I said "GPU for cheap" I was thinking one costing no more than 1-2 hours worth of work anyway.

>Even Rust manages to maintain a fork with 9x compatibility despite being Rust
That's insanely wild. Time to rewrite my game in Rust (I will never do this)

The only use cases in which I'd consider these "modern" languages are in software where I explicitly would not target older or more esoteric systems. For games specifically, I agree in that the lowest possible specs that could run it should be the minimum, at least to the point where development isn't made notably more difficult.
The choice of language for this project was primarily for me to get some practice in, but I have considered open sourcing my work at some point so others have a starting point for their UTDR fangames. For that purpose, the ideal language is something fairly easy to use and widely adopted, and I think Go fits the first criteria better than C++ while decently fulfilling the latter. I'd love to hear other suggestions though, since I'm wracking my brain trying to juggle this and I totally get your perspective.

Thanks a lot for sharing that 1.21 XP port. I'll try it at some point.

>>3771925
>I'd love to hear other suggestions though, since I'm wracking my brain trying to juggle this and I totally get your perspective
Its an off the wall suggestion, but what about making it a Java app? It can make games just fine as shown by Minecraft. Its one of the most widely adopted languages in existence, plenty of documentation. Even kids can code Minecraft mods in it, so its not too hard to learn. And if you make it a JAR executable it can run on anything with a Java Runtime, which includes everything from modern M4 Macs and i9 Linux systems, to Pentium MMX Windows 95 machines, and Sun Sparc systems. Its even got open source compilers and runtimes if you need open source tools.

>>3771931
Y'know, you make some very good points here. I have a personal distaste for Java's underlying OOP design philosophy and I'm not sure how I feel about requiring users to install an external runtime as a prerequisite, but these are all just personal preferences. And if anything, Java experience is desirable in the corporate space.
I haven't been convinced to switch, but I will definitely keep this idea in mind. Thanks.

martlet sisters
HP
700 (Neutral/Pacifist)
750 (Genocide)
1800 (Final Battle Phase 1)
850 (Final Battle Phase 2)
AT
8 (Neutral)
12 (Genocide, Snowdin)
25 (Genocide, Final Battle)
DF
10 (Neutral)
8 (Genocide, Snowdin)
40 (Genocide, Final Battle)

HP
230
AT
36 [8]
DF
36 [2]
EXP On Kill
180
GOLD On Win
150 (Kill)
70 (Spare)

>>3772079
martlet sisters explain why knight knight has higher at than zenith martlet does.

>>3772080
>>3772079
Isn't that kinda the point? UTY had lower power level in general, so as to not try and upstage the main story. That's why Clover jobbed hard to Asgore on Flawed Pacifist

>>3772099
Yeah but that means in terms of attack stats the literal ZENITH of monster kind is weaker than a random mercenary. Isnt that a bit funny.

>>3772100
I mean, I don't think we're really meant to consider Zenith Martlet as being the actual peak of monsterkind anyway, regardless of her actual numerical stats. Wouldn't the real zenith of monsterkind be Asriel Dreemurr at the end of a true pacifist run in UT? He was effectively a god, for whatever good that does you in the UT universe anyway.

>>3772101
While I can kind of see your point regarding zenith, I would still expect someone called the zenith of monster kind to at least be stronger than a random ass mercenary. The title has implications even if its not fully literal.

Maybe it's not just the zenith of monsterkind, but the zenith of whatever kind of monster Martlet is?
Maybe the Final Froggit monster you encounter in the core in UT is the equivalent of a Zenith Froggit or something, fuck it.

>>3772108
Final froggit zenith of frog kind.

>>3772080
Frisk is trash at gauging enemies' stats.

>>3772101
I don't think hyperdeath Asriel is a monster. He's something else.

>>3772103
Remember that the check stats in Undertale are fake while the check stats in UTY are real.

>>3772117
>>3772115
that, that explains so much things about uty.

>>3772120
That's an in lore explanation and an out of lore explanation, but really I think we shouldn't be thinking about stats too hard when the stats exist primarily for gameplay purposes and both devs really didn't think about it too hard.

>>3772127
Yeah thats true I guess I shouldnt overthink these things.

>>3772117
Its more that they arent literally the actual stats, toriel and asgore hold back, so they arent using all of their power, doesnt mean that theyre actually that wimpy.
Toriel's stats are lowered in genocide to allow for an one shot kill, doesnt mean she actually got physically weaker
Mettaton Neo has -40000 def in the code, doesnt mean he's actually so weak that paper touching his leg would kill him.

>>3772127
>both devs really didn't think about it too hard
This is why I think a lot of Undertale lore and its discussion falls flat on its face: Toby doesn't really think about the implications of things and the bigger picture more so than using these ideas as tools to tell his story or his jokes. Diegetic game concepts like saves, stats, etc. are effective for inciting the specific emotions Undertale often has on its players, but absolutely not for trying to build its world beyond the scope of the game.
So far he seems to be doing a better job with making a cohesive world with Deltarune, but I think that's a side effect of it being closer to a standard RPG than a parody. Not to mention, we're only two chapters in. If UT is to go by, he has a lot of room to fumble things

>>3772144
> Toby doesn't really think about the implications of things
resisting urge to go full schizo mode about the human monster war

>>3772144
You can world build in Undertale, You just have to focus on the theme rather than the fine details like stat numbers. The rule is its an rpg world where everything is diegetic. So if you think you have some novel way to make rpg mechanics or tropes diegetic, or to otherwise subvert or poke fun at said tropes then do it.

So say you want to scale martlet against other monsters. Do it by theme rather than by numbers, Martlet is the zenith of monster kind, So she's probably stronger than all other monsters, at least at the time of that fight.

>>3772149
Any schizoisms you have are hard countered by it being an rpg world where the player must always have a way to win. That's just how video games are. So the monsters, not being players, can never really defeat the humans, regardless of how many souls they get.

>>3772152
bold of you to assume that my schizoism involves monsters winning. No it does not. My schizoism is different

>>3772153
What is it then?

>>3772155
I will tell you tomorrow its late at night for me.

>>3772156
Its 4:45 AM for me.

>>3772157
IM TOO TIRED AND SLEEPY

>>3771448
Hi, lead Wildfire programmer here. Shame to hear about the compatibility issues. Unfortunately that's probably mostly up to GameMaker, and not me, though I did not extensively test the Linux export. Their Linux support is... not airtight, to say the least. Until recently, Linux exports had a noticeable audio delay on multiple of my machines. I began shipping Linux builds once that was resolved, but evidently there are still issues.

I hate to say this, but on my machine the game does run without issue on Wine. For a while I actually did some GameMaker development entirely through Wine, since the Linux IDE used to crash quite frequently. If you've had luck with Wine in the past, maybe that could help with the display issues. The native Linux build does work for me (on KDE/XWayland), but I'm not using a CRT. I unfortunately don't have the hardware to test less common configurations. Maybe also try an earlier patch (https://undertalewildfire.com/builds/combat-demo-v1xx.zip).

For my own non-Wildfire project I've elected not to use GameMaker entirely, partially due to things like this. It's far too late to change course with Wildfire, but I can try to learn from past mistakes.

> the fox lady was using a boar hunting sword
Anser's rapier went through some changes in development. I think it also changed in one of the earlier patches. I don't recall what the intent behind the design was, though.

>>3771308
It isn't feasible to downgrade. It's theoretically possible, because most of the framework for the game was written in 2024.6 and I haven't ever really used any newer features, but IDE updates bring changes to the project format, and downgrading could cause corruption. I don't want to take that risk, sorry. I dislike the removal of Windows 7 support, but I only learned about it months after upgrading to the version in question. As for 64-bit support, that's been gone since 2017. Even my non-GameMaker project is 64-bit only - I lack a 32-bit machine to test on.

>>3772287
(If someone wants to try downgrading the Combat Demo anyway, the source code is available at https://github.com/Undertale-Wildfire/combat-demo. Future releases will likely be open-sourced as well, but probably not right at release.)

>>3771544
Someone in Telegram actually did make a mobile port of Wildfire. There's a version on GameJolt as well, but it's unplayably broken. We've played with mobile support ourselves in the past but it's not a focus as of now - I want to actually finish the game before working on ports.

The point about the common audience for these games is accurate, though. Wildfire's download distribution is near-identical to the screenshots posted here of DRY's.

In somewhat related news, deltarune threads are currently being banished on sight over at /v/. Too much concentrated autism, I guess.

Anyways, once I'm done having my fun with Deltarune and Undertale, I was thinking of playing UTY: Shades of Justice. But I think the plot might take me out of it despite the additions made.

>>3770205 (OP)
This Shit Underswap is probably the highest quality fangame, also one of the few in development to get past the first fucking area

>>3772362
it's been too long since the demo, I lost hope

>>3772287
>Hi, lead Wildfire programmer here. Shame to hear about the compatibility issues. Unfortunately that's probably mostly up to GameMaker, and not me
The Linux build was fine. Ran perfectly, no problems on your end. It was the Linux kernel driver and Xorg that are the problem.
>It isn't feasible to downgrade.
Like I said, I'm not expecting you to. I was just warning any other devs so they would know about this before ending up stuck with the newest version.
>Even my non-GameMaker project is 64-bit only - I lack a 32-bit machine to test on.
If you want to test 32-bit binaries you can do so in a VM. As long as the OS is 32-bit it the CPU will only ever be given 32-bit integers to work with. It may not be worth it if your new engine requires Vulkan, since basically nothing 32-bit supports it anyways.

>>3772389
Impatient niggas cant wait for them to finish third area bruh, just wait up, you do know that they have to add shit that acknowledges the pacifist route, the regular neutral routes, the evacuation route variants (pacifist/neutral on ruined home and grinding until but nobody came in starlight isles variant, and an aborted genocide route variant), AND even genocide, right? You cant expect team switched to quickly finish the third area when theres a shitton of content to take into account.

>>3772395
i need fangames the size of uty NOW
unrealistic but i need them

>>3772389
They're still updating it and releasing as they go

>>3772395
To be fair not a soul on the planet was asking for the evacuation route to exist, I think they could just drop it next area and I'd be pretty satisfied with it just being a "if you do this weird sequence there's a secret third version of the sans fight"

>>3772289
>Future releases will likely be open-sourced as well, but probably not right at release.
I wasn't aware you guys had open sourced your work. Much respect, I wish more fan projects did that. Thank you.

>>3772391
It is a bit of a tricky situation. If a game is on some older monthly version, like 2024.6 or whatever, that does still have Windows 7 support, there are still good reasons they may want to update. It's not like _no_ useful features have been added, and using an older unmaintained monthly long-term doesn't feel like the best idea to me. That's what the LTS versions are for, but the last LTS version is so old that if you didn't start your project on it you have no hope of possibly downgrading.

There's also a case to be made that continuing to support outdated operating systems is fighting a losing battle. GameMaker is not the only program to drop support. Windows 10 is a decade old at this point, and so Windows 7 is no longer "recent" by any metric. It's now older than XP was when Windows 10 was released! I am generally on the side of maintaining legacy support for as long as is reasonably possible, but what counts as "reasonably" is different depending on who you ask.

Also, at least for the time being, it's not yet _completely_ impossible to run 2024.11+ games on Windows 7: https://yal.cc/gm2024-win7/

>>3772412
I took a while to get around to it, but I do believe in open-source and wanted my code to be available to others in case they wanted to use parts of or learn from it. I didn't publicize it much, so I'm not surprised you weren't aware.

To be clear, though, it is only the code that is open-sourced. As is stated in the README, the game's assets are not free to use. The code in the Combat Demo happened to be all written by me, so I was able to choose what I wanted to do with it, but the artists and musicians did not want their work put under a permissive license (+ many assets in the game are taken from Undertale, and so our not ours to license in the first place).

>>3772436
>Also, at least for the time being, it's not yet _completely_ impossible to run 2024.11+ games on Windows 7
It for all practical purposes is. I did that and ran into a dozen errors in the intro of your game, then it crashed when the UI for the dummy fight was supposed to appear. I tried wrapping the Directx calls to Opengl to avoid the issue using WIneD3D for Windows, and that didn't work. I tried using DXVK and Mesa lavapipe for Windows and that didn't work. Perhaps DXVK wrapping would work with hardware Vulkan, but I can't test that in the machine since I don't have a Vulkan GPU that will fit.
>To be clear, though, it is only the code that is open-sourced. As is stated in the README, the game's assets are not free to use.
How would anyone be able to port the game to anything if they don't have the assets? They wouldn't even be able to build the game for its intended system without the assets.

>>3772453
The assets are in the repository, they're just not free to use elsewhere. Ports/mods/whatnot are fine, we just don't want people taking Wildfire assets and copying them into other fangames. The code is under the MIT license, so it could be used in other projects with attribution.

How many of you knew this was real dialogue in Chapter 1
Susie won the Cloverbowl (real)

>>3772356
>. But I think the plot might take me out of it despite the additions made.
just play neutral and genocide. And play pacifist till you reach new home. There that way you avoid a certain ending

https://youtu.be/jZrqR_CMYLY?si=Qvo-FY7Qx2ItYKpn oh hey, there's a cool oneshot niko in undertale mod, neat. Personally, i feel like flowey was a bit too judgemental at the end through, i think if you do more than one geno run, he would go:
>"Ah, i see what you're doing, you want to reach the end, she keeps ripping you out at the last second over and over again... well, i think we can arrange something, get me the souls, and i'll prevent that brat from rebelling EVER AGAIN! Doesn't that sound good to you? You help me, and i help you! And this time... i wont fail you, chara."
But i guess theyll do anything to avoid having us attack niko's mom or whatever, only a Twitter user would do such a "screw you player" moment

>>3772489
>characters who would've been better off as his big sister want to become his mother instead
It's like we have a second minor Curse in addition to lesbian one

>>3772587
Clover and susie would work well as a nerd and jock dynamic, since i feel like clover's obsession with justice would make them come off as even nerdier than ralsei in susie's pov

>>3772650
I don't think they'd get along at all. Susie's outward persona is a menace and a bully, while her inward persona is a stupid mischievous gremlin. He would dislike both in equal measure.

>>3772436
Yeah, I saw that tidbit in the readme about assets not being freely available for use. That's totally understandable.
Still, any point of reference for other projects is greatly appreciated. Regarding fangames specifically, I can't help but think the eternal UT curse of remaking the Ruins then getting cancelled is due in part to these teams all losing steam by recreating the original game from scratch. I believe if we're all spending time working on IP we don't own and thus can't ever monetise or otherwise exert full control over, we might as well share what we have.
Thanks for doing what you do.

>>3772656
I never understood why fanartists are so possessive over art they legally don't own and can't profit off of.

>>3772650
Don't forget that Susie grew to respect Ralsei a lot, even if she still teases him. Even if she likes to talk big, she isn't too prideful to admit someone is better than her at something. If she had to adventure side by side with Clover, she will start to respect his judgement and trust his moral compass.

>>3772655
To be fair, Susie in many ways is similar to younger Ceroba. If you think they can't get along, then you can kiss Kanaclover goodbye (unless you prefer the interpretation of Kanako as just a boring sweet girl).

>>3772668
>(unless you prefer the interpretation of Kanako as just a boring sweet girl).
deltarune yellow anons biggest mistake

>>3772656
A lot of people seem to just have trouble getting started with the programming side of fangames. While a lot of the code in Wildfire is pretty specific to that game, a lot of it is reusable elsewhere, and I've tried my best to lean towards my code being maintainable/readable rather than a complete mess (like the original Undertale...). It's certainly not perfect, and there are far better programmers than me out there. But I thought, just in case someone could use it as a jumping-off point, there was no good reason to keep my code to myself. So far, I only know of one person who's used any of the code, and it's a friend of mine so it doesn't really count, but even just for the principle of the thing I'm happy to do it. It's not like it was much work to spin up a new GitHub repository.

I went with the MIT license for that reason. Anything less permissive (like the GPL) would serve as sufficient enough of a barrier for nobody else to want to use the code. There are a lot of kids in the fangame scene who don't even know what an open-source license _is_. All I care about is attribution, nothing else.

The asset restriction was not my choice; I asked the team what they wanted, and they did not want their work to be freely released, so I did as they wished.

>>3772667
This is a fair point for fanart. However, a good portion of the art in Wildfire (and a lot of these kinds of fangames in general) is not fanart. By volume, most of it is original work, actually. The environment, Quigley and Anser's designs, all the music except the two remixes (the menu and tutorial fight songs)... that's all entirely original, and by no metric copyright infringement. Those original songs even happen not to include any Undertale melodies. It's intended to have a similar _style_ to Undertale, yes, but style is not copyrightable. All that art and music I just mentioned is completely owned by the artists who created it, and Toby would have no legal basis to claim ownership.

>>3772668
>To be fair, Susie in many ways is similar to younger Ceroba. If you think they can't get along, then you can kiss Kanaclover goodbye
Kanako is two faced and mischievous, yes, but she's also smart and knows how to game the system. She plays by the rules maliciously to hurt people she doesn't like and is a sweet little angel to the people she does. Cole never sees her bad side because she never shows it to him, and those who do see it don't have enough evidence to prove it.

Susie is an idiot who steals chalk and beats up quiet kids for looking at her funny. She breaks the rules openly and defiantly. And everyone knows that she's up to no good.

Clover would see Susie as delinquent and a menace, and Susie would see clover as a buzzkill who thinks he's better than everyone else.

>>3772678
>Clover would see Susie as delinquent and a menace, and Susie would see clover as a buzzkill who thinks he's better than everyone else.
And together they fight crime!

>>3772669
>>3772678
>anons headcanon-ing kanako being a 3 steps ahead mischievous genius that games everyone and has everyone wrapped around his finger
>meanwhile me (DRY1) just made her a normal girl cuz I'm a programmer, not a writer, and I am a basic bitch vanilla guy
sometimes I wonder if I won't just disappoint everyone if I do manage to finish the game

>>3772684
Just give her robas tard rage and chujins stubborness. all will be forgiven if you do this

>>3772684
Pro-tip - start writing down all the good ideas you see in these threads then use them in a commercial project unrelated to Deltarune and make out like a bandit

I will keep saying this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SHbCykKcr8
a good kanako should be inspired by cerobas interesting moments.

>>3772686
I was kinda going to do that more in the weird route, I've been thinking about it lately and how to rework it to be better (but as usual I only think on chapter 2 forward, chapter 1 is still a letdown even if I am working on adding a few more rooms, npcs and at least 2 new enemies to it right now, pic related)

>>3772689
I already have a writer on my team for my original game, and we already did like 4 revisions of the basic premise and finally reached something we are satisfied with (the first draft was literally DRY with different characters)

>>3772677
Quigley and Anser are still monsters, who are part of the royal guard, that live in the Underground, specifically near Snowdin. That'd still be copyright violation on the grounds that they're based on concepts from toby's work. I guess they could use the designs, but they'd have to completely rewrite them to remove any association with Undertale.

>>3772684
I didn't mean she was some kind of Machiavellian super genius. I meant she was a spoiled pretty rich girl who knew how to cook up crocodile tears and sweet talk people when she wanted something. There are a lot of girls like that.
>meanwhile me (DRY1) just made her a normal girl cuz I'm a programmer, not a writer, and I am a basic bitch vanilla guy
There's no such thing as "just a normal girl". Every girl has defining personality traits that make them interesting and unique.
>sometimes I wonder if I won't just disappoint everyone if I do manage to finish the game
I figured you were taking advice from the threads on your writing like you were on everything else. I guess if you want to stick with the writing that you seem to think is bad, that's your prerogative, but I'd advise against it.

Regardless of all that, Kanako, Cole, and DRY as a concept exist independent from your fangame. Its possible to have takes on the characters that don't match up with DRY1.

>>3772695
>>3772686
She shouldn't just take traits from Ceroba. She has Chujin's genes too, you know. She should also inherit some from him.

>>3772705
I do take ideas from the threads quite a bit, like the gizmo stuff with melody
but I also have specific ideas for some parts of the game that I thought up ages ago and those likely won't change, but I am trying to figure how to mix the ideas anons give with the ideas I already had, nothing is set in stone until it makes its way into the game (and even then it can be changed like I am doing with chapter 1 at the moment)

>>3772696
>chapter 1 is still a letdown even if I am working on adding a few more rooms, npcs and at least 2 new enemies to it right now,
A few more rooms, npcs and enemies will help. But its like adding icing on a mediocore cake.
I think the biggest issue with dry chapter one is its overall plot structure.
In regular deltarune chp one you have the susie lancer plot, the ralsei kris plot, the lancer king plot, the seam and jevil plot, lancer and kards plot, c round stuff and etc. Theres a lot of interesting character moments and arcs in chapter one.
Meanwhile in dry theres only clover and kanako. Clover kanako and the bear plushie. kanakos connection with the neckalace (which is just a hidden boss fight). And the warden stuff (which has way less interesting plot compared to ralsei)
To fix deltarune yellow chapter one you need to add in more plot elements. As it is deltarune yellow chp one has way less interesting and overall plot elements and arcs compared to regular deltarune chp one
>>3772708
anon.......I mentioned chujins stubborness.

>>3772705
>There's no such thing as "just a normal girl".
There is such a thing as generic character archetypes. And Dry kanako right now just feels like a generic nice girl archetype. Shes bland

>>3772699
I'm referring specifically to the art assets, which are what is in question here. They are entirely owned by their respective artists. The writing is a different matter entirely, which is less clear-cut.

I'm not confident on what the exact rules are for what counts as copyright infringement regarding writing. The concept of monsters being trapped underground, and the idea there could be a cold/snowy region down there - I'm not sure that alone would be copyrightable. Originality is not the same as legality. The names "Royal Guard" and "Snowdin", of course, are Toby's. And then, what counts as original versus derivative writing, anyway? Does just mentioning something that is derivative make a whole passage so as well? Quigley and Anser are largely the work of our team. I don't know what the legal consensus is on original characters / story beats that rely on some derivative elements.

Either way, there is no point trying to pretend fanworks are in any way legal. We are just in a lucky situation where Toby does not seem to care, as long as nobody is profiting from it. It's possible he could eventually change his mind, and he would have every legal right to do so. I don't believe he would, but then I don't know him. We all take a risk when creating fan content that it could potentially be taken down. I just think it's worth clearing up what is actually copyright infringement, and what is not.

>>3772709
I hope those changes include a complete rewrite (or removal) of the ch 1 weird route, because it needs one. I love your game and can live with basically any of the other creative decisions you made, even keeping Kanako as a generic plain cute girl would be fine, but that ch 1 weird route would be albatross around the game's neck.

>>3772721
yes I agree, it is why I didn't continue the weird route to chapter 2
I might just make the entire game without the weird route at first and then maybe figure out how to make it later (since there were a few things I wanted to show there that won't fit in the main route)
I could disable the trigger for it too but since its already out there I don't see the point in it now

>>3772714
I was pointing out that making her "just a normal girl" is not a good thing to do because its unrealistic.

>>3772723
oh im illiterate, welp.

>>3772678
>Clover would see Susie as delinquent and a menace, and Susie would see clover as a buzzkill who thinks he's better than everyone else.
Relationship between Susie and Ralsei didn't start that good either. She saw him as some patronizing nerd who is trying to drag her into some inane adventure for preschoolers, and Ralsei had the best intentions, but he was too socially awkward to realize he is hurting her feelings. So I'm pretty sure it would be possible for Clover and Susie to settle their differences and find a common ground. Clover might as well learn an important lesson that justice is not always about punishment and there is such a thing as reformation.

>>3772718
>The concept of monsters being trapped underground, and the idea there could be a cold/snowy region down there - I'm not sure that alone would be copyrightable
>And then, what counts as original versus derivative writing, anyway? Does just mentioning something that is derivative make a whole passage so as well?
They might be and they might not be. I could definitely see the argument for it being derivative, but I could also see a judge ruling against it. The law is very hazy and the only way to know for sure would be to go to court and get a ruling. So I always think its safe to air on the side of caution.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently since I've got sort of the inverse problem. I'm trying to make as much of my game public domain as possible, so people can do whatever they want with everything in it. But I'm having trouble figuring out where the borders of everything I can do that for are. The assets are easy, anything that doesn't feature a delta rune or a toby character are fine. Same with the music. But what about everything story related, all the characters. Say someone were to use one without ever directly mentioning that he is a monster or anything Undertale related. I don't know if that would be legal, or if he would have to specifically write a non undertale version of him and publicly state that its this version and non that fan character.

>>3772677
>The asset restriction was not my choice; I asked the team what they wanted, and they did not want their work to be freely released, so I did as they wished.
I don't blame them (or you) at all. Like you said, much of the audiovisual elements of UTW are original and thus they own it.
I feel like a sharealike and/or non-commercial licence is a decent middle ground of maintaing exclusivity rights while still allowing for derivative works, but that's just what I think. But what do I know, I can't draw or play an instrument for beans anyway lol

>Anything less permissive (like the GPL) would serve as sufficient enough of a barrier for nobody else to want to use the code
I've thought about making a fangame and open sourcing it for reasons similar to yours. I've leaned towards a weak copyleft licence (eg. MPL), but wonder if there are truly benefits to be had from potential contributions back considering the scope of people actually interested in the code is so tiny.

>>3772732
Ralsei is a passive and submissive person. Susie warms up to him because he already likes her and is trying his hardest to get her to like him. Even if he is a weenie and a square, he's still really nice. Clover wouldn't be nice to her at all. Keep in mind this person is perfectly capable of murdering the entire underground in the name of justice with a little coaxing.

And also you should ask whether or not Susie could be reformed. Her nice state in CH 2 is still a delinquent who steals and breaks things because she thinks its funny. I don't think she would want to be reformed because she doesn't view what she's doing as wrong.

>>3772710
To expand on this further:
With chapter one there was a lot of interesting arcs and plots that formed one grand narrative.:
-There was the entire side plot where susie and lancer joined together as one "evil" team. And then ralsei + kris has to deal with them
-there was the arc where susie was a pretty "shitty" person in the beginning or closed off, but then grows to be more open and friendly with others such as kris
-Theres the lancer arc and his not good relationship with his father. That reaches a climax with king threatning to drop lancer (even tho it wouldnt hurt him). And lancer helping to overthrow the king
-The king remains consistent in his characterization. Theres no weird change anywhere.
-There was seams jevil and gasters mysterious connections with each other.
-Theres rouxls kards puzzle shit and his semi parantal role towards lancer.
-Theres ralseis arc, his mysterious connections to kris, his companionship, his lonely prince arc and other stuff

Dry as it right now:
- the warden who talks about a outlaw mystery and locks people away but thats about it
-Theres kanakos connection to the necklace but besides the schizo boss fight, thats just it.
-thres kanako and coles arc but other than those two, I dont recall major roles being played in chapter one except for the teddy bear. I even argue the warden doesnt play that big role of a either...well at least compared to ralsei
-The teddy bear who just ends up having a unsatisfactory ending where he just gives up because of nihlism. The issue with this being theres no proper buildup before that

Writing wise dry chapter one just feels a lot less good or indepth compared to regular deltarune

>>3772739
>-thres kanako and coles arc but other than those two, I dont recall major roles being played in chapter one except for the teddy bear. I even argue the warden doesnt play that big role of a either...well at least compared to ralsei
>-The teddy bear who just ends up having a unsatisfactory ending where he just gives up because of nihlism. The issue with this being theres no proper buildup before that

edit: Theres kanako and coles arc but other than those two, I dont really recall any other major characters or arcs (in the dark world). I even argue the warden doestn play a big role either...well at least compared to ralsei
The teddy bear ends up having a unsatisfactory ending where he just gives up because of nihlism. This is because theres no proper buildup for that

I still don't understand why fan artists are so opposed to people using their art. What's the benefit that? I know the benefit to not doing is that more people can enjoy making things with the characters and more fan content can exist.

>>3772739
>>3772742
>The teddy bear ends up having a unsatisfactory ending where he just gives up because of nihlism. This is because theres no proper buildup for that
I could always pull the "I'm not a writer" card, but for this I wasn't actually thinking about the story but more gameplay related (reward for sparing more enemies instead of fighting), originally that option didn't exist
I could remove it but I feel I tweaked the balance of gameplay reward too much towards fighting instead of sparing and that kinda bothers me since I wanted to have both for balance or something

>>3772736
>a sharealike and/or non-commercial licence is a decent middle ground of maintaing exclusivity rights while still allowing for derivative works
Perhaps. Being a fangame does make it a bit tricky, though. There could be a case to be made that another fangame not directly based on UTW is still in some ways a "derivative work". All fangames are non-commercial, as well. While I don't believe anyone on the team would take issue with a derivative work of UTW specifically using our assets, the possibility of someone taking our assets and using them in an unrelated fangame was something they specifically wanted to avoid.

> I've leaned towards a weak copyleft licence (eg. MPL), but wonder if there are truly benefits to be had from potential contributions back considering the scope of people actually interested in the code is so tiny.
I'm not familiar with the MPL, but from a quick look it doesn't seem any more permissive than MIT (and is a lot longer...). The only thing MIT asks is that the copyright notice is preserved in any copies of the work that are distributed elsewhere. The Combat Demo would technically be open for contributions - there's nothing stopping people from trying - but given that demo is 1) no longer in development and 2) running on a lot of outdated code that has since been changed in the main branch, I don't see myself accepting any hypothetical pull requests or anything. The repository I published the code on is a new one I created for specifically that purpose, and no development is done there. Combat Demo patches are/were (I don't expect to do any more) developed in our main private repository in a "combat-demo" branch, and because the public repository does not share that history and also differs in content in a few small ways it would likely be tricky to merge changes into it anyway. Our open-source release is more in the spirit of, say, Id Software's source releases, where a copy of the source is just made available as-is.

>>3772742
>Theres kanako and coles arc
What arc? Niether of them really change and grow as characters or even have any interesting dynamics with the world around them. They just sort of walk around and fight things until they leave.

>>3772747
I don't get how that's a reward for sparing. Does he just not fight you if you befriend every enemy?

>>3772751
if you spare him while having a higher spare than fight count, he will willingly go to the dark jail and give you the bear pin item (grants small HP regen each turn)

>>3772749
Good point. I will point that out in the next version of my dry criticisms.
>>3772747
Well if you want to keep it just try to add in more foreshadowing and hints that reveal the bears nihilistic nature. Thats the main thing i can think of.

>>3772755
Maybe you should change it to one of the other darkners giving you an item, possibly before the bearing fight. That would give a more immediate noticeable benefit to the mercy play style and would make more narrative sense.

>>3772757
I second this.

>>3772757
>>3772758
alright, I will remove the sparing option from bearing then, there is already a darkner that only spawns if you have spare > fighting (the pencil guy that gives you the pop rock) but I can add another one

>>3772759
>>3772742
very good to know
and what about the other problems i mentioned here >>3772739
Will you try to fix them? Or will you not try to fix them since you arent a writer.

>>3772761
edit:
very good to know
and what about the other problems i mentioned here >>3772739 (You) >>3772742 (You)
Will you try to fix them? Or will you not try to fix them since you arent a writer.

>>3772761
>>3772763
I don't think I will change too much but I was actually talking with a friend of mine about it just now and he gave me some ideas of a few things to add a few more events/talks in chapter 1 to kinda mitigate it

>>3772764
alright good to know. Can we see what those ideas are?

>>3772765
you'll just have to trust me on this one

>>3772770
....alright, I will trust you. I will put my 100 percent trust on you, dry anon.

>>3772748
>Being a fangame does make it a bit tricky
Man, this completely slipped my mind. I was just thinking what I might personally do for game assets (on a project I had copyrights to). That's true, being based on a property you don't have rights to complicates licencing your assets.

The MPL is pretty similar to the LGPL. Software licenced under it can be integrated into other closed-source software (eg. as a library), but changes to the MPL-licenced work itself also have to be MPL. The main differences with the LGPL are that static linking is fine, and the scope for what constitutes a "change" is that you have to release your version of the specific file(s) you modified.
In short, I consider it a decent balance between copyleft's "I give you the source code, you give me your changes back," (to quote Linus Torvalds) and permissive licences' facilitating code reuse. In this case, it would be nice to be able to reintegrate others' improvements into the original project, or for people who base their games off mine to also incorporate each others' patches. The big idea is that we all build off each other.
But yeah, considering what you said about how most people in the fangame scene don't even know about software licencing, this likely isn't the appropriate place for that mindset.

>>3772737
The thing is, Ralsei was nice to her right from the beginning, but they didn't hit it off until they learned to respect each other's worldviews. Their relationship isn't one-sided either - she genuinely looks up to him in certain areas, like she actually believed he could've handled Berdly better than her, even though the opposite is true. And conversely, Susie and Kris are kindred souls, but she didn't see it until they saved each other's life in tough situation.

As for Clover and Susie, if you insist that they can't settle their differences, it can still work out. I always liked that scene from Castle Cagliostro where Lupin and Zenigata had to make truce and join forces to bring down a much worse villain, yet Zenigata still refuses to shake hands with a thief. I doubt that Clover is too lawful stupid to accept help from a delinquent when they both face an actual threat, and they don't necessarily should become friends afterwards, but they at very least will respect each other deep inside.

Why do I bring up Susie so much anyway? The thing is, Clover and Cole by their nature as Justice souls are straight shooters, and Kanako by her nature as fox should be a mischievous and ungovernable creature. So we need to find a way to find common ground between them.

>>3772810
> Clover and Cole by their nature as Justice souls are straight shooters, and Kanako by her nature as fox should be a mischievous and ungovernable creature.
Mischievous kitsune requires jaundice correction.

Jokes aside, I don't think that's necessarily the case in UT/DR canon. They can be sly, but we don't see much mischief from any of the foxes. Quite the contrary. We see Chujin being more dedicated to the war and monsterkind's victory than even the one who declared it, we see Kanako getting vaxxed because she wanted to be a super hero and help people. Even when Ceroba is being two faced and deceptive, its out of a duty to save her daughter.

I don't think Kanako would be a force for disorder and anarchy. If anything she'd be in favor of governance. Her parents are both rich and powerful (physically) people and her family is close friends with the mayor. Not to mention she's an only child. She'd benefit a lot more from cozying up to authority figures to get what she wants then she would from sneaking around and going against them to get what she wants. That kind of environment would make develop a habit of appeasing and using authority figures to her benefit rather than rebelling against them. Why be a punk rebel who gets grounded all the time when she can get everything she wants by being daddy's little princess?

That still plays into the sly and deceptive nature of foxes, while making them perfectly compatible.

She probably befriended Cole when they were young and both she and he refused to play anything but the good guys when playing pretend. Even if it meant being the damsel on the train tracks, she'd rather be that then the cool bandit lady. And of course such an affinity for justice would activate Cole's neurons, while Cole being such a strong force for authority would activate Kanako's.

>>3772799
Yeah, it depends what you're trying to do. I would find it nice if people shared their changes to my code, if they did use it, but I personally feel it would be a mistake to license under something that required that. By and large, Undertale fangames are generally not open-source. Either the developers don't even really know what that means, or they just want to keep their work more private (which, if that is their preference, I think is fine!). So, if I licensed the Combat Demo under that kind of license, I just don't think the code would ever be used. It's also possible it _would_ still be used, but those who used it would just violate the license terms anyway (probably not out of malice, but because they wouldn't understand what the license meant).

In some ways, I find it funny that licenses like the GPL are considered the standard for "free software". Doesn't restricting what the software can be used for, even if it is with good intentions, make it less "free"? I guess it depends on how you define the term. In an ideal world where everyone wants to share all their work with each other, this wouldn't be an issue, but we don't live in that world. While these kinds of restrictions are helpful to prevent corporations exploiting open-source work for their own gain, they also make the work less accessible for those who aren't necessarily acting with ill intent. Not everyone wants to share their code publicly. Maybe they're self-conscious about it, or are especially concerned about plagiarism. There are valid reasons for remaining closed-source.

So, essentially, the idea of "open-source", as an idealistic concept, I just don't think meshes well with the wider gamedev or fandom scenes. These are not software people, and especially not open-source people. Many are artists that learned programming as a kind of necessity, so they could make their game ideas into reality. If my goal is to help them do that, I think being as permissive as possible is necessary.

Any sort of mischevious nature of foxes is counteracted by the fact that the ketsukune foxes are japanese. And not any type of japanese but what looks like traditionalistic leaning japanese.

Japanese culture favors order, loyalty, collective values, and discipline. The ketsukunes natural affinity for trickster shit would be counteracted by such traditional japanese values. Thus making it so that they arent that openly chaotic or mischievous but instead more subtle about it

>>3772832
Yeah, the ketsukanes are schemers than pranksters.

>>3772838
Exactly
after all ceroba did her whole human soul thing not because "it was just a prank bro" but because it was part of her soul scheme.
Same thing with chujin.

>>3772846
I bet the ancient Ketsukanes had designs on the Dreemurrs throne before the war.

>>3772838
>>3772846
>DRY is actually all a massive setup by kanako to make cole date her
>there is no 'outlaw', never was.
>everything was fabricated by her.

>>3772853
No, there is an Outlaw. Its Sadie being the world's best wingman.

>>3772851
(ignoring the potential butterfly effects that would prevent chujin from being born)
>ancient ketsukanes coup the dreemurs.
>asgore and toriel are forever exiled to the ruins. (at least their marriage remains intact this time...i hope)
>chujin is eventually born and becomes king of the underground
>chujin takes ceroba as his wife
>kanako is royal princess
>chara or clover falls as the first human (more interesting if its clover)
>kanako finds them
hmm

>>3772856
the line between "world's best wingman" and "creepy quiet girl that likes to play matchmaker" is very, very thin.

>>3772860
This implies that a scheming fox who is smitten by human boys would know or care about that distinction.

>>3772860
... damnit now i have an idea
>cole and kanako walked into a dark room, mistaking it for another dark world
>when they didnt fall cole found a light switch
>"ah!"
>sadie was sitting on the floor with a paper in front of her, the light momentarily blinding her
>"... what are you doing sadie?"
>"umm nothing!"
>"whats on the paper?"
>"nothing at all! please dont read it!"
>"nah im reading it"
>the bug girl was too slow to stop kanako
>kanako's face god redder as she read
>"sadie... is this fanfiction of me and cole in a dark world?"
>"its... uh... the script."
>"the script?"
>"for the dark world that i was going to make in this room..."
>the three of them stood in silence for a moment
>"well i think we're done here. that makes you the outlaw, and i know you're not brave enough to keep making dark worlds after th-"
>"now hang on a moment kanako. sadie, did you write that segment where me and kanako got stuck in a tiny jail cell and were practically pressed up against each other until you came to save us?"
>"uh-i-you-maybe-"
>"i'll take that as a yes. now did you intentionally stall for a while so that we'd be stuck like that for an hour?"
>sadie was frozen
>"cole stop. we can discuss this later, you know how bad she does when put on the spot"
>"sorry"

>>3772859
Sounds like a happily ever after to me. Clover isn't a humanity hating psycho like Chara, so I don't think he's going to be talking Kanako into killing a bunch of humans. It probably ends in Kanako becoming queen of the Underground (after marrying Clover of course). He'd die eventually, while she'd live on. Maybe she'd keep his soul so some part of him would always stay with her. Then all the subsequent humans get a royal welcome when they fall down.

>>3772868
Its a shame she got found out so soon. The next dark world was gonna be the one where they have to use true love's kiss to break a curse.

>>3772870
*writes this down for a fanfic idea.

>>3772824
>>3772832
Bear in mind that most of the main cast in Undertale and Deltarune is comprised of anthros, and they all more or less conform to their respective animal stereotypes. Of course, they're deeper than that, but animal stereotype is used to build a foundation for them in broad strokes. UTY just followed the tradition - while Chujin and Kanako may not have had particular fox traits, they weren't main characters either, while Ceroba was taking a center stage and was a real foxy mama in all senses. So if Kanako is going to be a main character, it's important for her to have fox traits too.

>>3772880
Still I think Kanako would be more scheming than mischievous since that's what we see of her parents.

>>3772883
Sure, as long as we acknowledge the stereotype.

>>3772887
It fits since they're specifically kitsune, who are known for being more subtle about their schemes than their western counterparts (and for seducing human men)

>>3772826
This is one of the stronger arguments in favour of permissive licences I've seen out there, in that a lot of people who don't open source their work aren't necessarily keeping things private out of malice, and that there are cases in which restrictions in the name of freedom hurt more than help. I do think your arguments are especially convincing in the fandom scene or the smaller indie scene.

Though, I struggle to believe this applies to gamedev at large. With moderately to widely successful commercial products, I don't see the point in permissively licencing your game and essentially cutting off your passive income; if you're being generous enough to open source your work, at least require competitors to do so too, or charge them for your labour. John Carmack said as much when Id first released Quake under GPL.

I guess it's almost like the general culture of students in a state school or smaller private university compared to something like an Ivy League. There's a general aura of camaraderie in the former, but an aura of competition in the latter. Permissiveness mutually benefits one another when you have that sense of community, but people will take advantage of it when it's not there.

I'm also going to go on a limb and cite the "DRY1 is a virus" debacle as a justification for at least making the source code available lol. >>3771738
is onto something

>>3770576
I've read your story now and I stupidly stayed up late to make sure I got this write-up out in the timeframe I promised. All of my criticism comes from a place of interest in your work and I myself am just as amateur as you, so I mean no disrespect if anything I write seems harsh. It's all meant to be constructive and I want to state first that I'm interested in seeing more from you.

I'm not going to criticize things like grammatical errors or nitpick awkward writing because I've read your earlier posts that you wrote this in a day without much proofreading, but speaking generally I think there's an upper limit to how long greentexts can be before the format becomes more of a hindrance than an asset. Greentexts are snappy but the information you can give in one line is limited unless you ignore the conventions and start writing paragraphs that happen to have a > in front of them. Connecting closely related thoughts together can be choppy when there's a line break every 1-2 sentences, and a problem I had reading your story is that the medium, specifically the monotony of the formatting made clean breaks feel jarring and hard to immediately parse. The strongest examples of this in your work were the time lapses; I couldn't immediately recognize that the scene of the recruits meeting each other had skipped over to the first group fight without rereading things a few times. In prose you could make that more clear with line breaks or a dinkus etc.

Speaking from my UFY writings, both the one I posted last thread and multiple earlier ones from as far back as 2024, I found it harder to condense what I wanted to say into greentexts and my attempts to work around it became difficult to read. My prose still leaves something to be desired but I'm very satisfied relative to this attempt at writing through greentext six months ago: https://pastebin.com/s9kfM5jd
I would recommend trying to write in prose for something longform like your story.

>>3772935
I really like your premise for Oldentale, and I don't think the ideas for your characters are bad, but I don't think I got a strong grasp of their personalities or motivations. A lot of your writing was focused on the monsters' physical properties (the mummy cousins' dry and bandaged bodies, the kelpy's hair, the drake's fire), and if you stripped those away and had them in a different story as humans there would be little to go on. Mr. Plinkett's famous review of The Phantom Menace had a bit where people within the review had to describe Star Wars characters without mentioning their physical characteristics or occupation, and feel that's an appropriate framing here. You could easily describe the main cast in Undertale and Deltarune without mentioning what kind of monster they are, but I couldn't do so with Goz, Erin or Redrake.

I also think the writing for the characters was very "tell, don't show" overall. A lot of sentences directly and unsubtly told the reader how a character looked or behaved, rather than those things being woven into scenes.
>Inside were only two other monsters, a kelpy and a drake
>The Kelpy, a musclebound green haired guy named Erin, was outgoing if a little obnoxious. The one thing he couldn't stop talking about was he hair and how great it was.
It would both be much more natural, and give more character, if the kelpy had a conversation with another character that kept derailing into him talking about himself and his hair. Inserting himself into unrelated conversations and using it as an excuse to be narcissistic. I would go so far as to not say "kelpy" off the bat: If you described the character as a muscular monster with a horse-like face, whom Rags noticed smelled horribly damp and whose hair looked moist, then the reader would have a picture of the character in their mind without the need for the word "kelpy," and the species can either be mentioned by a character later or the PoV character could assume they were a kelpy.

>>3772936
There's almost no physical description of Redrake at all. Another anon mentioned that "drake" can refer to both a male duck and a type of dragon, and there are no context clues as to which it is in his introduction.
>The other was a drake named Red. As the name would imply he was a red drake, both in color and type
This describes the drake as a drake, giving no new information. The mention of eating coal and oil imply dragon, and the only physical charactertic mentioned is that Redrake has a beak, something way at the end and which could on its own just make him a weird dragon. I think assuming the reader would see a character with "-drake" in their name and picture a slightly different Snowdrake is bad not just because it may not happen, but because requiring a familiarity with the works it's derivative from is flawed conceptually; anybody in this thread and who would read your story is going to be an Undertale fan, but how much the reader knows about Undertale and how clear it is in their memory shouldn't be taken for granted. The other part of that Plinkett bit mentioned above is that the description should be given as thought it were to somebody who's never seen the original work.

I didn't feel Goz's presence in the story; the character wasn't really defined beyond his relationship to Rags and some actions taken in the fights. I get the impression Goz is meant to be a stoic, easygoing silent type, and there's nothing wrong with that, but he could still be characterized more with his actions or in how Rags views Goz. Rags is the focal character for most of the story, and I think if the narration came from a more limited perspective than currently (that is, more directly within Rags' head and through Rags' thoughts) then the way Rags sees Goz would help characterize both of the cousins even without Goz offering more dialogue. Also, assuming Goz is a silent type like I posit, his one full line of dialogue seems out of place; it could be made more curt.

>>3772938
Going along the concept of focusing the narration more from Rags' perspective, I think the opening of the story would flow better by introducing Rags, then Goz through Rags, and then describing the area they're trudging through. Rather than contrasting the cousins as they're being introduced, Goz's description could be juxtaposed from Rags' completed description, e.g.
>Rags was a jackal, standing about five foot. He was lean, gaunt even, and below his sharp facial features he was nearly entirely covered in tightly-wound bandages, only stopping at the elbows and knees to reveal black paws.
>[more description about Rags]
>Goz, towering over Rags, lumbered behind. He too was covered in tightly-wound bandages, only stopping to reveal more tightly-wound bandages. Unlike his cousin, Goz was a full-blooded mummy, and the pair of sarcophagi he dragged along the path contained everything the pair was able to bring from their tomb.
I write that without knowing the details of your characters, of course, forgive if something is incorrect.

sudden long post out of nowhere

>>3772940
In general, I think more back-and-forth dialogue would help both the flow and the characterization. I mentioned this with Erin, but a lot of moments told through narration could be shown through exchanges of dialogue and action, especially with Reynault. Reynault is both talkative and snarky, but he doesn't play off the other characters much. I think Rags' impatient attitude, which doesn't appear much after Reynault is introduced, could be reinforced through how he reacts to Reynault's jabs. Take, for example, Rags noting Reynault's footsteps and then thinking about boots: that could be an exchange between the characters.
>Each time Reynault moved down a stair his steps made a loud *clunk!* It was uneven and metallic, and Rags thought it must be uncomfortable. When he reached the bottom, Rags caught up with the fox and asked, "Are those odd boots you're wearing regulation?"
>Reynault momentarily glanced down and smiled. "Not a fan? They're specially made for me. Monsters come in many kinds, and our dress regulation is more lenient than the enemy's to say the least."
>"That's good. I can tolerate foot wrappings if I need, but-"
>Reynault made a quick noise to cut Rags off and said, "-but you'd rather not cover yourself in even more of the stuff?"
And however Rags responds, whether he tries to contain himself because of Reynault's authority or talk back despite Reynault's authority, would flesh out the nature of his impatience.

Reynault making more subtle jabs that escalate over time to the final day when he's actively antagonizing people would help the pacing, I feel. Reynault is always either on or off, and applying a gradient to that would make him feel more three-dimensional. The stuff on the last day is rather cruel on its own, but if it was built up to then I think it could be seen as Reynault testing how far he can push his boundaries. Also, I don't think enfield is that recognizable; maybe having a coat of arms in his office would help with that.

>>3772942
The fights felt jumbled, and I don't know how to best give feedback on it because I don't think I've written a fight myself. Reynault came across as generically overpowered without reason, something that I can understand a bit better with the reveal at the end that he's partially mechanical, but I don't think it was conveyed that he was mechanical within the fight. I think you should try to give him a more defined fighting style rather than him dodging and parrying everything. One change I think would have major conveyance improvements is if Rags' sword connected with his (metal) hand and then bounced off. Speaking of, was Rags trying to kill Reynault? If Reynault was an ordinary monster and Rags' attack would have sliced his fingers off, was Rags intentionally using lethal force? If so that fine but I can't tell given it was a sparring match.

I think I covered my general thoughts without getting into nitpicks, which wouldn't help since it was a quickly written story. I wanted to be thorough about why I felt the way I did and to give examples, but I really do not want you to feel discouraged from such a long write-up; it's just how I think about stories. I do want to read more from you in the future, and to see you release something playable for your game. Good luck!

>>3772941
I do apologize if it breaks up the thread's current discussion, I've meant to read and review Oldentale-anon's writeup since he first posted it and I wouldn't feel right half-assing it.

>>3772943
There wasnt really a discussion here so dont worry. Its just you suddenly appeared out of nowhere with long pieces of text.

>>3771738
>>3772289
>Future releases will likely be open-sourced as well, but probably not right at release.
I was about to say that I should make my fangame open source at some point as well, the only thing stopping me is people seeing my messy amateur code full of comments only I would understand, then again, games made in Godot are easy to decompile if they are written in GDScript so uploading the source code isn't going to make much difference

>>3772916
> I don't see the point in permissively licencing your game and essentially cutting off your passive income; if you're being generous enough to open source your work, at least require competitors to do so too, or charge them for your labour.
That makes sense, yeah. My stance was very focused on the specific situation Wildfire is in as a fangame. We can't legally make any profit anyway, so there's little to lose by licensing permissively. If I ever get around to finishing my commercial project, I would be much more careful if I happened to decide to open-source it.

> "DRY1 is a virus"
Ha, false positives always suck. However, while having source code available would soothe the worries of more technical users, I'm not sure the average person who's spooked enough by a false positive to not want to play your game would have the requisite knowledge to read the source code anyway.

It's also true that having public source code does not immediately exonerate a program of any potential harm it may cause. Even for those who do have the understanding to read the code, any non-trivial program still has quite a lot of it, and it's unreasonable to expect every user to read all of that and decide for themselves whether the program is safe to run. On a certain level, downloading any program requires a certain level of trust. There's nothing stopping a game made in any mainstream engine from just deleting all the files on your machine, or whatever, even without triggering malware detectors (GameMaker has a basic sandbox, but it can be disabled by the game's developer).

>>3773083
> messy amateur code full of comments
To be honest, I don't think my code is all that great either. I try to be clean with it, and to architect it at least somewhat decently, but I'm still self-taught and don't always do things perfectly. My personal style has even changed somewhat since I started working on Wildfire in February last year, so some older code in the project, like the dialogue system, is written a little messily by my current standards. The Combat Demo is also a bit of a Frankenstein's monster at this point - it runs on a lot of quite outdated code from back in August when it I usually released, but then over time in patches I've backported a lot of more recent code to fix issues. It's honestly kind of a mess at this point.

I actually don't comment that much. A few years ago I would comment almost everything, and it started to just feel silly. Now, if I feel some given code is self-explanatory, I don't comment it. Variable names and non-spaghetti logic can go a long way. I only comment now if something actually needs clarification, and those comments often end up as paragraphs.

But, yeah, if you don't want others to see your code that's a fair reason not to open-source it. It's your choice. I released my code despite any

> games made in Godot are easy to decompile
So are GameMaker games, if they're compiled with the default VM option. UndertaleModTool, developed by the community, has a quite high-quality decompiler, and GML seems to be compiled with pretty much no optimizations. The code you get back is almost the same as the original code - all you lose is comments, the original spacing, macros (they're compiled out), and enum names (reduced to UnknownEnum.Value0, etc). When releasing Wildfire, it was more the open-source licensing that was the main added value. People had already been data mining the game, and had already seen the code (albeit in not an ideal state).

>>3773102
>Variable names and non-spaghetti logic can go a long way. I only comment now if something actually needs clarification, and those comments often end up as paragraphs.
See, the thing is that I don't use comments to clarify, I usually give variables and functions self explanatory names, I use comments as notes of things that I should change in the future or stuff I should keep in mind, I have a notes app open at all times and I still do this, then I foget to remove those comments and now there is a bunch of scripts with comments that make no sense

>>3771577
>I think there were some missing dependencies or something, specifically for json loading.
if you can add the newtonsoft json.net nuget or just copy the dll into the godot project it should work

>>3773114
Yeah, TODO notes are also common in my comments. My general rule is just, if there's an intent behind the code that I don't think is obvious by reading it, I should write that down so I can remember it if I come back to the code later.

>>3772943
>Speaking of, was Rags trying to kill Reynault?
No, he was trying to cut the feather from his hat like he later did successfully in the second fight. He wasn't expecting Reynault to try and block it with his hand since if any normal person tried that all they'd accomplish is losing a few fingers.

>but I really do not want you to feel discouraged from such a long write-up;
Don't worry about that. You've done the opposite actually. All your suggestions have got me wanting to write more.

>>3772718
>there is no point trying to pretend fanworks are in any way legal.
Fan games are okay, through? There are a lot of mods and fan shit of other franchises like doom, half-life, mario, etc. that the idea of fan works not being legal is just questionable

>>3773248
legally, no. We only exist because Toby lets us.

>>3773262
It always go back to foxes...

>>3773248
Mentioning Mario fanworks existing as an example of fanworks being legal is a bit funny, because Nintendo is _extremely_ litigious and loves taking those down.

But, no, fangames are absolutely illegal. They are copyright infringement. Yes, there are many fanworks out there that have not been taken down, but getting away with a crime doesn't make it not a crime. _Morally_, I'm a huge advocate for fanworks. But they are not legal.

bread up
>>>/v/711285660

schizo theory that has numerous holes in it but eh im still posting it

You see its very weird that there were no humans that sided with the monsters. Why were there no humans?

Wouldnt there have been humans that were suffering from poverty, famine, slavery, disease, and etc. Humans who were suffering from discrimination, warfare, economic inequality, and serfdom. Wouldnt these humans escape to monster lands so to seek salvation. And wouldnt monsters accept these humans because thats how monsters are.

But if thats the case during the war where the human volunteers? Certainly the old, the fatally sick, or the very selfless- ones would have given their souls. And thus monster kind would have gotten seven souls to defeat humanity.

Simple there was. There was seven souls. There was probably an army of monsters who had souls. Armies of monsters who had one soul five souls seven souls or more.

So how did they lose? Because the humans could counter these monsters. After all a 10 year old managed to beat the literal god of hyperdeath, just through the powers of determination.

But then what about the seven soul plan that asgore promotes? WHy does he believe that? He doesnt. The seven soul plan was just a bs plan that asgore made after reacting to his childrens death. He then maintained it to keep hope in the underground. THeres a reason why gerson says asgore and him agreed that if the monsters ever broke to the surface, they would be slaughtered. Its because even with the seven souls, monster kind still doesnt have a chance.

Monster society was operating on the logic that humanity was strong but still weak enough to beat them. In reality, there was no chance for monsterkind to win.

(yes theres holes on this theory but eh)

>>3773361
Probably the last one we'll get in a while.

>>3773094
>It's also true that having public source code does not immediately exonerate a program of any potential harm it may cause
Yeah, that's a really good point. Just because it can be audited doesn't mean it will, nor does that make it intrinsically trustworthy, especially to the layman. I personally do still think it's a good look, if only because I'm rather apt to trust people who are transparent rather than secretive.

Also, out of curiosity, do you see any drawbacks to something like public domain or 0BSD as opposed to MIT? I understand you believe attribution is important, but for those who don't, I'm wondering if there are other practical concerns these might cause. I struggle to understand why MIT is touted as the premier easy-to-comply-with licence when completely waiving copyright is even easier

>>3773399
Undertale is an RPG world. The humans and monsters couldn't side with each other simply because they would not. That's just how RPGs work. Humans are on the right, monsters are on the left and they fight.

>>3773412
Nta, but I really struggle to see the downside to public domain myself. It makes things so much easier for all parties involved.

>>3773417
explain this

>>3773116
Thanks for telling me how dependencies work in C#. Whenever I get around to decompiling the game again, I'll try that. But I'm honestly tempted to just wait until the next update if I'm gonna have to go through the whole song and dance again anyway

btw naranja anon uploaded an intro a while ago over at the other place, I've removed the audio so it could be uploaded here

>>3773422
He (and (you) still kill all the monsters in the end.

>>3773444
>20XX
Chara fell in 201X. That would mean Val fell before Chara. Also, who did this art?

>>3773456
But he still allies with the monsters at one point. And he only kills all the monsters after coming back as a spirit that gets "corrupted"
WHICH SHOWS HUMANS CAN ALLY WITH MONSTERS.

>>3773458
He was the villain. They're allowed to work with monsters.

>>3773459
okay now thats a fair point. Excuse me I need to think

>>3773457
Undertale time isn't super well thought out (#2 Nose Nuzzle Champions '98 imply Dogamy and Dogaressa are older than when Chara fell, either making them ancient or crunching the timeline even harder than UTY does), 201X being far into the past is for the shocking twist and nothing else

>>3773412
Personally I think I still like to require attribution, but public domain is nice too, and I couldn't see it causing any problems. It is probably the "ideal" option in terms of ease-of-use, so in some ways maybe it is better.

>>3773497
Dogamy and Dogaressa won 2nd one century after Asgore and Tori won first (though that does leave the question of who beat them). Copes aside, the 201X is a front and center plot point so if you want to make a fangame you have to write around it.

>>3773457
>That would mean Val fell before Chara
Not necessarily, 20XX could mean anytime between 2000-2099. It likely means an unspecified decade after the 2010s. Unless Naranjaanon is planning an insane plot twist wherein Val falls while Chara is in the Underground or something.

>>3773552
Oh, I didn't think of that. Guess I'm just stupid.

>>3773559
Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure the art is by Naranjaanon. As far as I know he's developing solo, and all he said in his original post was "here's an intro I made"

>>3773457
>Chara fell in 201X. That would mean Val fell before Chara.
What this anon said >>3773552 the 20XX date is there to imply that this can take place after Undertale's intro, but without giving an specific date
>Also, who did this art?
I did, some drawings where made using Undertale's intro sprites as a base and editing them, others were drawn from scratch, which is why the quality is so inconsistent, I want to polish the drawings eventually but that'll be once I have an actual artist to help me

>>3773599
This guy is definitely LOOKING FOR A CHALLENGE!
Did H*R predicted AUs?

Are there any fanmade horrortale concepts where aliza fights an older frisk at the end? I'd like to view a horrortale genocide route to be essentially aliza putting the monsters out of their misery and fighting frisk in an attempt to get them to undo their neutral run and actually try to get a better ending, with the final option being to either kill flowey (marking the route as aliza never intending to help monsterkind despite what flowey would initially think in this route) or let flowey perform a full reset that rewinds time back to before frisk left the underground, thus, making the concept of horrortale's routes more complex than just "undertale genocide 2.0 aliza kills everybody for no reason and chara still erases the world because this au was created around 2015-2016 where UT AUs struggled to come up with anything that was too creative", or did nobody actually think about that?

>>3773599
I don't know why, but I was under the impression that you weren't an artist. The stuff in the intro is really good.

>>3773605
That reminds me. Going offtopic from this, imagine how clover would react to horrortale.

Like they sacrificed (im still angry over this) for the sake of monsterkind. And then they get revived to see their sacrifice was meaningless. The jaundice child (frisk) came, killed asgore, and caused the souls to disappear. The monsters which were cute and cuddly are now cannibalistic monsters. Ceroba starlo and martlet have probably deteriorated
into something horrific. The monsters plan to wage war on humanity has become 100 percent genuine

Everything that clover strived for has become nothing in the end. And now clover has to survive in the underground. Deciding whatever to deliver true justice to the monsters who now deserve vegance.

>>3773605
Now going intopic on this.

I havent really seen a horrortale concept like that.

> with the final option being to either kill flowey (marking the route as aliza never intending to help monsterkind despite what flowey would initially think in this route) or let flowey perform a full reset that rewinds time back to before frisk left the underground, thus, making the concept of horrortale's routes more complex than just

Interesting, reseting the timeline to save monster kind. Or killing the flower and then damining monsterkind forever. But why would they fight a older frisk at the end? Why would frisk be there?

>>3773648
>damining
damning

I think I figured out another problem about dry kanako

>>3773658
to be fair, the doe has the sweepstakes.

>>3773660
dry anon where is the kanako sweepstakes equivalent

>>3773658
>>3773660
>>3773662
I've delegated most of kanako's interactions to day 3 when you party up with sadie and melody
at least chapter 2 will have more chujin stuff unless toby says otherwise with toriel in chapter 3, we will know soon

>>3773643
>I was under the impression that you weren't an artist.
I wasn't before starting developing UTN, my skills are still limited but I have noticed some improvement since I started, Val in particular has come a long way from when I first drew him, lmao, he still need some tweaks but he doesn't look as deformed now

>>3773667
Okay good to know. Good to know.

>>3773668
Did he escape from prison or what?

>>3773677
>Did he escape from prison or what?
well the orange clothes are meant to give that idea, but I can't say more about Val's past

>>3773680
isn't he underage though? I thought that was why he couldnt actually date the fire girl (much to my disappointment)

>>3773681
>isn't he underage though?
he is, I didn't say he was on prison

>>3773667
>at least chapter 2 will have more chujin stuff unless toby says otherwise with toriel in chapter 3, we will know soon
I'm gonna say this right now anon, what you have going with Chujin is good. If Toby contradicts it just ignore Toby. Its better to be an AU with a good plot then to throw away a golden story arc for the sake of canon.

>>3773668
Damn, its a good thing I'm an encouragable wannabe, otherwise I'd feel pretty bad comparing myself to you. You started last year and you've already improved more than I have in five years.

>>3773692
maybe, we will see how things will go
depending of what happens I might be able to tweak to fit closer to canon, but if it strays too much or is too stupid I might have to bite the AU bullet and just go with what I feel works the best for the story I want to tell

>>3773694
you already will have to make this au since gaster will play a very big role in dr. You told me a long time ago you are ignoring gaster.

Soooo, our translation work has basically come to an end. Now I have a few small questions that I hope you can help answer.

1. Does the hyphen in Drill-ER 3000 have any special meaning?

2. What does the MC in MC Toster specifically refer to?

Thank you very much!

chinese translator wants a response. His translation is basically done.

>>3773709
1 - no its just because it looks cool
2 - this is a spoiler but it stands for master of ceremonies since I had planned he will be using a turntable on his boss fight later

>>3773710
alright I will tell him.

>>3773644
All of Yellow’s characters would be pissed off and upset because of pretty much all of UT’s neutral endings except for neutral pacifist. Like I’m pretty sure in the more depressing neutral endings Martlet would straight up kill herself and Starlo and Ceroba would descend back into escapism and alcoholism respectively. Queen Undyne and obviously leaderless are the ones I think would be especially bad for them.

>>3773717
Their reaction to the Queen Alphys ending would be glorious.

>>3773757
CLOVER DIED FOR NOTHING

Dry anon.
is cole, clover
I mean they have very simmilar names
They look pretty simmilar to each other.
They know the same monsters
They even have simmilar actions and shit.

>>3773757
I think King Papyrus would be interesting too since him and Sans would probably start looking for help on how to deal with future humans and eventually they’d find the monsters that met Clover. Martlet and Starlo would have some funny interactions with Pap and with Toriel gone, Sans needs a new mom to befriend.

>>3773774
>with Toriel gone, Sans needs a new mom to befriend.
I'M NOT GETTING KEKED TWICE BY THE TUMBLR SEXY MAN

>>3773648
Well, horrortale takes place after the queen undyne neutral ending, where frisk would be older due to the passage of time, so you'd think that monsters would harbor hatred towards frisk for damning them all, i'd like to think that this flowey would be kind of onboard with the idea of forcing frisk to reset, my idea was basically aliza going to the surface during the geno while holding toriel's soul, searching the older Frisk whos chilling on their surface house, where the confrontation would ensue, would be an interesing scenario with lots of potential

>>3773717
That one anon's horrortale yellow scenario seemed pretty interesing, that one where martlet and starlo's gang help each other since steamworks is technically a second mini-core that could produce some food

>>3773834
yeah, it's really funny how steamworks solves literally all the problems in horrortale.

In restrospective, it doesn't make sense of the entire undeground depends on the core with no backups.
Like, the core must be about 40 years old? So they had to have used something different before the core
Especially because they HAD to build the core, the construction alone must had taken a lot of power. That thing is HUGE.

>>3773834
>tfw the UTY cast is still sane in Horrortale due to the Steamworks
Sounds like we're getting UT vs UTY after all.

>>3773913
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pjdjLAXxZ8&list=PLEWl1HIGA6ABUgzJZspSofMpXVUEpXY11&index=2
The same thing applies for this series. And its also very funny here
90 percent of monster kind has become these insane abominations. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYXoobOzoFPs7lu7Oy6k-ng/community?lb=UgkxuunOXr63J4w2k05ikrvD4WWCSyYgEsqJ
Meanwhile cerotard, cucklo, and shartlet are just their normal sane selves. Maybe a bit unstable because of how bad the underground became, but still their normal selves
Its a really interesting situation

>>3773923
well the same thing would apply if uty was canon to these series but eh

>>3773693
>otherwise I'd feel pretty bad comparing myself to you. You started last year and you've already improved more than I have in five years.
I mean, I had an entire year to make changes to Val's sprite, my other stuff still look like scribbles, my main problem is that drawing takes me way too much time for my liking

>/v/ thread got autosaged while I slept
So this is how it ends (for a while)
See you on the other side when Deltarune has completely upended all our projects

>>3774040
I'll see you next week when I figure out whether or not Deltarune still does anything for me.

Fucking hell

>>3774231
they won't be able to contain the volume of threads coming in the next 48 hours

>>3774231
If I weren't going completely offline for the duration of my Deltarune playthrough I would relish the upcoming janny war
It's going to be a bloodbath

>>3774231
And in the next thread on /v/ a Christmas miracle happened - janitor actually did his fucking job for once.

>>3774231
well we had our thread at the right time didnt we?

>>3774250
We still got autosaged but we at least got most of the way through the thread first, could have been much worse

>>3774250
Seems like it was a singular outburst, not a new official policy - backseat janny got his shit kicked in in the next thread on /v/, with all his posts being removed.

Mr. President, the first spoilers hit the /v/

So ive been thinking about chapter one lately. And I have a proposition for you, dry one anon.

The major issue for dry chapter one is that its lacking plot or character. I think this could be solved in the way you made chapter two, introduce a darkner as a companion.
And theres a perfect candiate already for that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjr_oPdJrGs&t=174s
Foxlace

Dont let this character only be used as a secret boss. Instead introduce the character from the beginning. Say kanako and cole encounter fox lace immediately after running away from the bear or something else.

There now theres a character which could help expand the pre existing characters lore and characterization (fox lace is connected to kanako and maybe cole) While also further expanding on chp ones plot elements (fox lace has to get her shit back from the fort).

You could also even expand fox lace character by making her the true boss. Or you could just keep her as a very secret hidden boss...(wait i just created pseudo fox spamton)

>>3774271
god dammit, I actually like this

>>3773913
To avoid wrecking the concept of horrortale with the steamworks' existence, you could argue that the steamworks isnt enough to feed the entire underground, making the wild east kind of a safe haven but also inaccesible due to the amount of monsters who have tried to invade the town but couldnt cus of the feisty five's efforts

>>3774270
the game leaked?

>>3774275
why the god dammit?

>>3774271
hm that would require a complete rewrite of the chapter but I am already kinda doing that at this point
the issue is this might make existing save files incompatible

Just incase nobody heard it yet and are monitoring the thread: Deltarune's 3&4 ost leaked early. Might want to be aware of that.

>>3774278
song names did, from what i've looked into it seems like they are real
see ya everybody, im going dark.

>>3774281
>the issue is this might make existing save files incompatible

sometimes sacrifices are needed to make greatness. And you want to make a good game....since thats the only way you will get a lot of kanaclover

Plus the only way chapter one can be fixed is through significant rewrites. So either way the save files are probably going to be incompatible anyway

>>3774283
Later man. Just 1 more day and it'll be over

>>3774282
I guess I'm skipping the /v/ threads starting from now on. See you in a week, bros.

>>3774271
I like only having one companion in Ch 1. Its unique and gives us more one on one time with Kanako. I think he should add more to Kanako there instead.

>>3774281
Please don't make foxlace a main character. I don't think it would work as one. Plus having just Kanako is fun. If you really want though maybe it could be an optional companion or something as a reward for beating the secret boss.

>>3774295
Agreed. DRY is obviously about Cole and Kanako - giving the latter a chance to develop more during the grace period where they're alone is a good idea.
Ralsei benefitted from being the sole companion in Scarlet Forest for example, and scenes like the Acid Tunnel of Love helped him further.

>>3774297
yeah I am still unsure what to do exactly on that, I agree foxlace probably wouldn't fit, but maybe having at least a prominent npc could help tide things over

>>3774298
Note
Ralsei was able to be the sole companion for a decent amount of the time even when other characters existed like susie and lancer. Susie just had to bugger off somewhere for a while.

Though thats because susie became a "antagonist" for a while

>>3774300
Maybe instead of a companion make fox lace an expanded antagonist instead? That way we can avoid fox lace taking away too much screentime. While at the same time ensuring theres a prominent npc?

Or would there still be issues with that

>>3774300
Give Cole and Kanako a radio or something they can use to comunicate with the warden over long distances, that way the story still focuses mostly on Kanako and Cole but you still have a another character that can be added to a scene when needed
I do agree that foxlace should be expanded, right now foxlace is pretty isolated from the rest of the cast. In deltarune Jevil at least had some conection with Seam and it looks like there is a whole over arching plot that connects all the secret bosses

>>3774321
I second this

So heres the thing dry anon and the other anons in this thread. If we go the direction that deltarune yellow focuses and relies mainly on the relationship between cole and kanako, then it requires a lot of indepth characterization between the two. The issue is dry chapter one completely falls flat in this:

An anon pointed out earlier there is essentially no character arc between the two in chapter one. They just, most of the time, walk through the chapter doing shit until finally getting out. Over 90 percent of the time theres no real tension, character growth, drama, or other things. Its just solve the bear issue, cute girl shenanigans and then get out. (note im only talking about chapter one dark world here.)

To rely on these characters requires something to exist in the first place. And besides some cute girl shenanigan and kanaclover moments, their relationship is just mostly eh. Theres not that much interesting and compelling stuff

Now of course I wont say that theres fully nothing there. Cole saving kanako, the warden legend, and coles/kanakos prison scene does show some interesting characterization. But these are just crumbs in an overall empty pie pan.

To solve this you really need to expand more interesting kanako and clover moments. Others here pointed out some interesting ideas to do that.

>>3774300
You already have Pennilton and Ringo. You could just expand their roles to have more interactions. Maybe play do the old "two incompetent goons" gag with them. You could also extend Foxlace's role a bit to add more foreshadowing than it currently gets.

>>3774303
>Maybe instead of a companion make fox lace an expanded antagonist instead? That way we can avoid fox lace taking away too much screentime. While at the same time ensuring theres a prominent npc?
He could've made Foxlace the main antagonist and it would've worked perfectly. Being a darkner that only wants the lightners to stay and will make sure that they will never leave. It could parallel Ceroba and show Kanako's problems with her and allow Kanako to come to terms with them over the course of the arc. Of course its a bit late for all that now. It would take rewriting the entire chapter from scratch to do that, which I don't think is a reasonable expectation.

As it stands. I think he could make Foxlace into a sort of mysterious benefactor that later becomes the boss. Its obviously cares for Kanako, so it would intervene to protect her if it saw her in danger. But its still too broken to talk or think straight, so it wouldn't introduce itself or explain what it wants plainly. Leaving it a mysterious figure.

https://gamejolt.com/games/gonerfirstsoul/907993
Theres a cool deltatraveler mod, apparently. You can even play as clover by using their name from what ive heard

>>3774375
The Clover part sounds interesting, but its Delta traveler. Is the mod any good?

>>3774372
Maybe foxlace is the boss of the bear, the one who actually "rules" the first darkworld, some darkners reference foxlace but you never fight her unless you do the secret fight

>>3774379
But then why is Bearing, hates lightners, second in command? Why does it allow darkners to try and kill Kanako? I think those ideas are mutually exclusive.

>>3774381
*who hates lightners

>>3774372
this is a genius idea. *wries this down for my own personal stuff

>>3774384
>*wries this down for my own personal stuff
*writes this down for my own personal stuff

>>3774377
Well, there are quitr a few secrets sprinkled here and there, they do plan to make this mod more than just a mod where kris shot and replaced with someone else, the clover gamemode apparently has clover go down to the uty path and finds noelle there

>>3774372
>As it stands. I think he could make Foxlace into a sort of mysterious benefactor that later becomes the boss. Its obviously cares for Kanako, so it would intervene to protect her if it saw her in danger. But its still too broken to talk or think straight, so it wouldn't introduce itself or explain what it wants plainly. Leaving it a mysterious figure.

That would add in plot elements that chapter one needs while not taking away a lot of screentime from kanako and clover stuff. Add in the warden stuff here >>3774321 and I think theres enough plot elements to make chapter one good. Without taking away the games focus on kanako and clover.
Also the idea for the fox darkner here is unique. Its different than jevil and spamtons role so thats a plus.

>>3774390 (me)
Also add in some more kanako and clover stuff so to expand their relationship. Stuff which would fix the problems I mention here >>3774355
And well I think that would solve most of the issues of chapter one. Dry anon I think these are the changes you need to implement.

>>3774372
>>3774365
>>3774355
>>3774393
>>3774390
hm I see, that's a good idea but requires a full rewrite of chapter 1, so it will take me a while to get it done, but I am already starting to imagine how some things might go in this new direction

>>3774381
>Why does it allow darkners to try and kill Kanako?
Make it so he only wants to capture Kanako or make it so he rebels at the final battle

>>3774400
I posted the wrong quote. This image is the right one
> so it will take me a while to get it done
take your time. I want this game to be as good as possible. Also I dont want you to get stressed

https://www.reddit.com/r/KanaClover/comments/1l20wgj/hugging/
dry anon why did you do this

>>3774414
that was mostly to test ACTs, its still in the game but only if you load a fight against the test enemy

>>3774414
... anyone here in that kanaklover pisscord anyways?
how is it.

>>3774282
I'm still holding out for the slim possibility of a game leak

>>3774506
why in the actual fuck would you want that when we are hours away from DELTARUNE TOMORROW
you just point to spoil people.

>>3774506
I strongly hope otherwise, if we get a leak someone's going to spoil it before I can get my own hands on it
Don't you want to go blind? You only get the chance once

>>3774514
You'll need to avoid the threads for a while anyway.

>>3774514
If it leaks, then I download the game and play it a day early while still avoiding the threads. Regardless, the official release is just a day away, so it's pretty unlikely at this point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC73FZ9QgdI
banger video dropped
over 2 hrs long. Kris is frisk

>>3774537
I was under the impression this is what most people believe

>>3774551
>I was under the impression this is what most people believe
no theres a lot of people who think kris is chara or kris isnt frisk. I can argue at some points there are more kris is chara believers than there are kris is frisk believers.

God fucking dammit, now both /v/ threads are talking about spoilers.

>>3774603
why are you on /v/? Just wait and play the game. Then go back to /v/

>>3774603
What the other said. You should've dipped the moment the OST was supposedly leaked.

>>3774603
Where are they even sourcing their spoilers from? Surely there can't be that much discussion surrounding just the leaked OST titles.

>>3774632
>mfw retards start screaming about Gaster and the bite of '87

>>3774632
Have you not been in these threads? Toby could put a stray pixel on one of his bsky shitposts and people would discuss it for ten threads and draw rule34 of that pixel as well.

>>3770205 (OP)
CATS AND DOGS ARE PROTECTORS OF THE SPACE AND TIME CONTINUMCATS AND DOGS ARE PROTECTORS OF THE SPACE AND TIME CONTINUMCATS AND DOGS ARE PROTECTORS OF THE SPACE AND TIME CONTINUMCATS AND DOGS ARE PROTECTORS OF THE SPACE AND TIME CONTINUMCATS AND DOGS ARE PROTECTORS OF THE SPACE AND TIME CONTINUMCATS AND DOGS ARE PROTECTORS OF THE SPACE AND TIME CONTINUM

>>3774603
Anon, get in your bunker, wait a day and a few hours, download the game with no programs open on your computer but Steam, unplug your router to be safe, and play it. There will be plenty to talk about when you're done even if it takes you a few days. The fleeting enjoyment of some pre-release shitposts is not worth the risks you're taking right now. If you've got absolutely nothing to do then write or draw something and post it here later after you've played the game and can safely re-enter the Internet

>>3774640
And when I type all this I mean get in your bunker NOW
Stop browsing even this thread in case a bad actor remembers we exist

>>3774643
NTA but I'll follow you advice anon. See you in a week.

Before the bombs drop tomorrow, here's Deltarune Ch. 3 & 4 Bingo, for you to play! Individual bingo charts are on the 8' thred

>>3774506
I'm already browsing this thread with one hand over my screen, if it leaked this close to the finish line I'd probably die. This is one of the only big games that's actually been tight-lipped and secure

I just want remind you anons that this is the Undertale/Deltarune Fangames thread, not the Deltarune thread. So when it comes out tomorrow and you feel the need to discuss it, you should do it in the /v/ or /vg/ threads, or if you must do it on /vrpg/ make a dedicated thread for it. Otherwise this thread will probably hit the bump limit in under 24 hours.

>>3774640
Im a phone user and ill need to wait for the mobile ports to release, play em and actually beat the game before actually going back to the fandom, how screwed would i be?

>>3770624
Jesus christ get a job and touch some grass

>>3774756
Just leave him be, if he likes to do challenge runs then good for him ig
https://youtu.be/nBnRNcDuhR4?si=YphZLzV9NZPvNo2k

>>3774754
You don't have a PC or a console? At this point I'd say maybe just watch a no commentary playthrough so you can still get half the experience without spoilers.

>>3774754
I don't think mobile ports should take that long, but if you're desperate to play ASAP look into x86 PC emulators or Switch emulators. If you don't have a recent high end phone though those might be hard to run

Im going to document all the evidence that shows kris is frisk, in chapter 3 or 4. Someone has to do it. Will post it here for you anons to judge.

>>3774848
Post it in a deltarune thread. Not here.

>>3774754
I didn't think people who solely owned phones but wanted to be gamers actually existed. Not even a $100 craptop with ten-year-old hardware, or some kind of Raspberry Pi thing that can run the Linux version of Steam and probably meets the low specs Deltarune needs? If you speak the truth then I pray for you

>>3774756
I have a job and touch grass daily. Whats wrong with challenge runs?

>>3774867
I wanted to post it here because I value the opinions of anon here more than the /vg/ and /v/ people....due to obvious reasons. If you are worried, I wont post it now but later when the chp 3 and 4 hype died down

>>3774908
post it on the other place, almost everyone here still checks it now and then

>>3774908
Just make a Deltarune thread in /vrpg/ instead of using this specific thread. Deltarune is an RPG, its on topic.

>>3774899
You'd still need to emulate a PC to run Deltarune on a Raspberry Pi, so there's no functional difference between it and a phone.

>>3774960
Yeah, I'll primarily be largely going on "the other place" 8 for ch3+4 discussion, since it's fairly off topic for here. Hoping the DR thread gets more activity

Alright see you guys in a week, once Deltarune drops I'm unplugging my modem

Normally I'd ask this in the /v/ thread, but seeing as there isn't one at the moment, anyone here got any decent greens? I don't just mean wholesome or anything, I'll take fucked up, dark, needlessly cruel ones too.

>>3775026
Greens of what? I have zero Deltarune or vanilla Undertale greens, but I have a few Shu greens and I posted that obscenely long Oldentale prequel green earlier in the thread.

>>3775027
Anything. I'll take UTY greens, or any greens of any other fangame you happen to have on you.

CAN YOU GET ALL RECRUITS ON SNOWGRAVE?
sorry for dumb question but i swear to god i got all recruits in snowgrave when i first did it years back

>>3775029
Here's >>3770576 that prequel green I was talking about. I had to make it a rentry it was so damn long. The Shu greens I have as txt files, so I might just shove those in a catbox and post a link. That work for you?

>>3775034
Yeah, sure, that'll do.

>>3774962
>>3774960
I will be making the vrpg thread.

>>3774960
also yeah i will post it on that place too

>>3775037
Here's all the OC greens I wrote which I bothered saving. There were a few shorter ones in the previous /v/ threads which you could probably find in the same as where these were originally posted which I didn't bother saving. https://files.catbox.moe/asmdl8.zip.

>>3775031
No because 1. You murder most recruits you got from the first area because of the snowgrave run's kills, meaning it is factually impossible to recruit them all, 2. You can actually recruit the queen's mansion exclusive enemies at best.
You prob did an aborted weird run and forgot the specific details of it so you Mandela effect'd yourself into thinking you did a full weird run with all recruits

>>3775045
thank you for the greens. Im putting this in my collection

Tobias Foxington gives us a gift before the release https://toby.fangamer.com/newsletters/release-day/

If clover was willingly doing the suicide to help monsterkind. Wouldnt it be better if clover went to asgore and then personally gave their soul to asgore.
That way clover would try to convince asgore to stop his genocide plan. Since asgore would get heavily demoralized seeing a child give their soul to them.
Wouldnt the sacrifice make more sense that way?

>>3775099
That requires a certain dose of foreknowledge about Asgore's morality.

I'll miss you guys, i will not open youtube nor any social media until i finish ch3&4

>>3775134
(deleted my original comment because that was a dumb troll comment)
I see that is a major issue.

>>3775145
I will do the same

How do i make clovers suicide scene make sense without making it pointless or completely changing it
hmm

>>3775162
Why keep it? It was a bad idea right from the start.

>>3775165
a challenge. I want to see if I can redeem it. If there is any way to redeem it without changing it to the point it cant be recognized.

Wait, no, I have an idea on how to make the suicide scene slightly less retarded. Just reverse the Pacifist endings. If you spare Ceroba, Clover goes to see Asgore. If you kill her, he realizes he committed a crime and gives up his soul to right a wrong.

>>3775171
huh that is kinda better. Now instead of painting the suicide as a good thing its instead portrayed as a horrible punishment.

>>3775171
Recording this idea to the document (Ive recorded the past fixes mentioned in this and the previous thread)
Gonna do something with them.

Despite all the warnings, I really wanted to ride it out with /v/ at least until NZ release, but last time I checked they seemed to have found some new spoilers. Anyway, I need to do some last-minute adjustments to my save, then I'll take a nap and bake myself a pezza right before the release. See you on the other side, guys, may your theories get confirmed and your ships come true.
I kind of wish preparing for the release didn't feel so much like getting my affairs in order

gentlemen it begins.
Goodbye

3 hour mark. This is when the internet REALLY becomes unusuable.

Rig for dive
Clear the bridge
Flood the ballast tanks
Take her down

https://deltarune.com/tv/
If anyone is still there - don't forget about TV

It's been a pleasure.
If I never come back, finally free from 4chan clutches, let it be known that Ceroba was a shit and my best wish to all developers around here.

>I'm so excited to play Deltarune with everyone else here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzM2oWtTAws
>H-Hello?
I guess we'll discuss about the new mechanics, characters and what it means for future fangames later...

TV is still off. My Hawaiian pezza is in the oven, by the way

>>3775318
We will discuss this shit after three weeks.
>>3775315
you will come back. There is still further....ceroba discussions to be had

>>3775347
>three weeks.
edit: three days
>>3775324
>spoilers
>one person often uses that type of spoilers
dry anon if thats you, I feel betrayed

>>3775318
I'm gonna check in on the other thread in the other place occasionally as I play through the game. It's gonna be a while until I get to the new content since I plan on replaying from the beginning, since I haven't played either of the previous chapters since launch.

DRYanon2 here.
played both chapters, a lot of things i was relying on have been confirmed.
i am #1 tobert predictor.

>>3775735
More importantly one of schizobosses pretty much encourages you to make fangames.

WARNING - IMPORTANT SPOILER FOR CHAPTER 3
Ralsei got horse-cursed for being gay

So I just finished playing through 3 and 4 normally (no weird route yet, missed a ton of secrets/shadow crystals) but some things were confirmed (or semi confirmed)
>Susie bleeds (meaning human hybrid?)
>Monsters in DR have DT (or maybe just Susie due to above)
>Monsters still dust when they die (though its common to bury their ashes instead of spreading it like UT)
>Dark Worlds by themselves are already Darker than Dark, there isn't a deeper level of darkness
>Opening a Neo Dark Fountain instantly gives birth to a titan
I'll try playing weird route to see what new info it provides, but still hoping to get more info on monster souls

>>3775782
Oh and adults can enter the Dark World and even get their own outfits, I was curious about that one
hopefully this new info will make DR fangame stuff easier to make for devs

>>3775770
Where the hell does this image come from? I've seen it posted on 4chan before, but is there a source for it somewhere else?

Just finished chapter 3 and am partially into chapter 4. Only stopped because its really long and I needed a break. I'm not gonna post anything plot related nor anything that I would consider a spoiler, but I'll spoiler it nonetheless just in case someone wants to know literally nothing about the game. This is specifically about its relation to fangames and a common trap they fall into.

You anons remember how we've talked a lot about UTY not feeling like Undertale because the art is too well made? Well it seems Toby has fallen into that trap himself now. The art is pretty and has a lot of animations, but it feels like it lost something along the way. The old artstyle is basically gone now. I guess all those new professional artists he brought in caused it. I don't know what this means for fangame development, but I hope it doesn't lead the an across the board abandonment of the artstyle.

Anyways, I'll probably go to sleep and check back in tomorrow after I've finished it.

>>3775816
I believe most fangames will follow closer to chapters 1 and 2 in terms of art and even theming, chapters 3 and 4 kinda go "off the rails" so to speak

>>3775816
Speaking of that
I thought DRY was too dark and depressing compared to DR. Well, I stand corrected.

I thought people would discuss the game three days later instead of immediately one day after, in the thread. I thought anons here would discuss it in that other place
Welp I gotta finish it.

>>3775830
It isnt actual full game discussion but bringing up some points some fangame devs were curious about so they can put in their fangames

>>3775349
If I were you, I would refrain from trying to identify specific anons by their typing quirks. I did that once and everyone called me schizo and told me to take meds

>>3775838
I see, so posting about that is acceptable then. Then I will do the same.
>>3775845
I dont want to be called a schizo so fine I will follow your advice.

>>3775782
>>3775789
adding to those
>if a dark world has a object with monster dust, they can actually be brought back to life as a darkner, but it requires "special darkness" (the person opening the fountain related to them?)
>the dark fountain reflects the will of the person that opens it, so even if a new fountain is opened in the same room as a previous one with the same objects, it can create a different dark world

so oldentale anon now that we have (ch 4 spoilers) possible what gerson looked like in his prime, will you implement that in your fangame?

Is XP anon around? Curious if you got the new DR release working on your system.

damn I just saw the chapter 4 weird route, and I can assure you anons, in DRY1, I never planned to get that far
the funny part is toby will get away with it

Honestly, after the latest reveals about Noelle and especially Susie I feel like we need to collectively step up our Kanako game. Like everything we wrote about her just doesn't cuts it anymore.

Will you also be able to make Cole rape Kanako in DRY?

Good luck DRYanons. Biggest issue I feel is the art and some character moments but you guys have potential. Keep going.

>>3775782
I think it might be better if, instead of following the new lore, fangame devs instead draw from all the theories that were killed by the new chapters. Woody theory and Neo Dark Worlds are the two best examples . Aside from all the actual answers to the questions we've been asking for years being a lot more boring than we expected, the canon lore is played out now. Whereas obscure dead theories are ripe ground to pick from.

>>3776130
(Spoilers for deltarune) Two issues with that. One, this "Gerson" is a darkner clone of an alternate universe version of the Gerson that would appear in my game (if he were to appear). So that doesn't have much bearing on UT Gerson besides possibly his personality. Second, I have to account for player choice and its relation to canon. If I make Gerson an encounter then that means the player can kill him, which means he can't appear in Undertale. If I don't make him an encounter, how do I explain him not intervening to stop the player if he does a genocide playthrough? I could go the route of snatching the controls away from the player before he can kill him and let him run away, but I hate when games do railroady things like that. As a side note, the new Detlarune chapters did that a lot, which really made me dislike them. So, he probably won't be appearing at all.

It did give me a few ideas though (spoilers for Oldentale) Moreso about Reynault, since they do have a similar schtick of being unassuming looking, but incredibly strong monsters, who like to use those traits to mess with people. Got me wondering how an interaction between them would go. Gerson is definitely a much nicer person than Reynault. Reynault's tricks tend to be pretty mean spirited, while Gerson's were very benign. Reynault's definitely sharp enough to see through his clueless old man facade, and the reverse is certainly true for Gerson. On a physical level, Reynault is tough, but he's nowhere near Gerson in terms of speed. So he'd have trouble with Gerson's *teleports behind you* trick.

>>3776132
I didn't bother trying. The Survey Program demo didn't run on XP, and the 1&2 demo required a 64-bit processor. Maybe I could get it working (with no sound) on XP 64 Edition or server 2003 with One Core API, but I didn't bother. I just used the same Win7/Linux machine that I used to play WIldfire and DRY to play it.

>>3776148
>>3776206
DRYanon, if you do this I will strangle you.

>>3776259
I actually don't have any intentions of changing my ideas for DRY after playing ch 3 and 4, it still fits withing what I had planned
only thing I'm thinking now is maybe having sadie be the 3rd party member on day 1, but I am still unsure

>>3776260
I think having only 2 party members on day 1 is better. Feels more cozy and lets you get to know Kanako better.

>>3776260
>>3776261
Just do the fox lace idea we mentioned way back. The whole fox lace will appear mysteriously and sometimes help you. And then ends up being the final boss.

>>3775782
I think there is also one important revelation (more of clarification) concerning Darkners:
They are not created by Dark Fountains. Dark Fountain merely changes the perception of Lightners, allowing them to see usual surroundings as a Dark World and common objects as Darkners. Darkners themselves are perfectly aware that they are objects and make no difference between their existence inside and outside of Dark World. That's why they are fine with you closing the fountain, unless they need it for a specific purpose.

>>3776268
Speaking of that, with Gerson we've seen a mechanic where a character that follows a party does not becomes a full-time party member, but is instead summoned for certain acts (complete with a portrait).

>>3776269
> where a character that follows a party does not becomes a full-time party member, but is instead summoned for certain acts (complete with a portrait).
good point, dry anon perhaps you should do something like this with foxlace.

>>3776271
actually with the spamton cameo in chapter 3, even secret boss darkners can return or interact with stuff

>>3776273
hmmmm

>>3775822
DRY1anon has to step up his game then

>Toriel stocks crashed so hard that people are re-evaluating Roba yet again

>>3776352
Nothing feels better than being vindicated after all this time.

>>3776257
>I just used the same Win7/Linux machine that I used to play WIldfire and DRY to play it.
Oh I was mostly wondering about that, just wasn't sure how to address you haha. Did it work on 7 or did you have to use Linux/Wine?

>>3776355
Roba still bad though.

>>3776361
Roba was always good.

>>3776362
Roba was always bad

>>3776363
Wrong.

>>3776364
I am right though.

>>3776366
Maybe on Planet Faggot.

>>3776361
But she's second worst mother now. Maybe third, depending on how Carol turns out.

Okay so to prevent this thread from being spammed my actual opinion of roba is that shes an okay character. My issues is mainly with the ending, I dont really have any problems with the roba before that point.
>>3776368
sensing a meltie approaching.
>>3776369
i agree

>>3776352
honestly, I didn't mind her and Sans at the end so much. If only because the rest of the chapter made me re-evaluate my priorities. Sans saved her life by dragging her off on that date, and then his "disturbing of Kris's sleep" was good comeuppance for all the shit Kris put everyone through. I still feel bad for Asgore, but Toby is gonna torture him regardless. Roba personally upset me more because she killed Kanako and then Clover.

>>3776360
It worked fine on Windows 7. Had a bit of slowdown on one of the really crazy attacks (just the one), but other than that it ran perfectly. So the gamemaker LTS runs great (unlike its newer counterpart, which only runs in theory).

>>3776376
Oh shoot, thanks for bringing that to my attention. I might give it a shot on my Vista install with kernel extensions.
It's mostly to satisfy my curiosity at this point because I did get it working on Linux after enabling wined3d, but still.

Someone update that image to say the worst mother in history vs the third worst mother of today

>>3776424
Ha-ha, that anon forgot to u[u[load image and is now waiting for when he can delete the post!

>>3776434
what? I didnt upload the image on purpose. I thought people would know and have what im referring too since its been posted a lot in the v threads.

>>3776375
>Roba personally upset me more because she killed Kanako and then Clover.
For roba the best way to think about her is to pretend that the ending didnt happen. I guarantee you your opinion on the roba would improve 100 percent if you do that. Clover was allowed to suicide, nope that didnt happen.

>>3776206
>toby patched it out
lol

also someone is trying a thread >>>/v/711752446 , but I don't expect it to live too much

>>3774102
Well I played the game, and it did do some things for me. Mainly just disappoint me.I'm not gonna put any spoilers in this first comment, I'll justr say that it has too many gimmicks that really over stay their welcome, its too serious, it too damn hard, and its too high production value. Basically all the things I expect from an Undertale/Deltarune game are either poorly executed or not present in the new chapters. Its alright as a game, just not as a continuation of chapters 1 and 2.

>>3776620
why the hell did that person create a thread now.

>>3776620
>toby patched it out
The only case of his over the top unsubtle writing working out for the better and he cut it. Its amazing how even now he's still disappointing me.

>>3775782
>first spoiler
I doubt it involves hybrids, could just be an indicator of how certain monsters work.

>>3776352
I really didn't think that would happen. Toriel was basically invincible for the longest time, though I suppose leaving your kid to fend for themselves all day while "dancing" and getting drunk with a stranger they've never seen before in their house hits closer to home than getting vaxxed by your mom.

>>3776269
Just wait until you use the shadow crystals multiple times.

seems deltarune broken destiny is out of hiatus and looking for programmers

also this clip from one of the UT cyans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njwDGcxtyEs

So at this point is toriel just objectively way worse than ceroba. Did toriel really set the bar that low.

>>3776848
I dunno about that, Toriel mostly just seems kinda negligent, whereas Ceroba more actively harmed children that she was ostensibly supposed to be responsible for. Even as someone who likes Ceroba, I wouldn't say Toriel is worse than her.

>>3776861
I havent finished chapter 4 yet. Are people just exaggerating to make ceroba look better?

>>3776880
Kind of? I can see where people are coming from. It's really just a moderate escalation of Toriel's bitchiness and self-centeredness seen in earlier chapters. I think people's growing dislike of Toriel is just bubbling over because of Ch4.

>>3776885
>Kind of? I can see where people are coming from
hmm kinda not a good sign. Welp im going to play chapter 4 again soon. Wonder what I willl feel

>>3776890
NTA but I don't personally think what Toriel did was that bad, especially since it was much more passive than what Ceroba did, but it still wasn't a great thing for her to have done. I'd say you should probably just see what happens and come to your own conclusion.

>>3776892
>I'd say you should probably just see what happens and come to your own conclusion.
alright, I will do that. Now excuse me Im going to finish the chapter by today or tommorow.

>>3776897
Cool, come back when you've finished it and let us know what you think.

>>3776900
> let us know what you think.
Oh I will, I definitely will

quick question, which one was worse:
ceroba injecting kanako
or
clover suiciding when they should have suspected asgore would use their soul to destroy humanity.

>>3776352
clover's a kid so ceroba.

>>3777008
okay second question. Which one personally angered you more. Which one did you care about more.

>>3777006
Ceroba injecting Kanako, easily.
That whole bit completely goes against Ceroba's established character up to that point, and it just makes no sense.
Clover sacrificing themself could be made to work better if the game had some characters refer to Asgore the way a lot of monsters do in base UT, with them mostly regarding him as a pushover who probably won't actually try and exterminate mankind, since that would give Clover a decent reason to believe that Asgore would do the right thing with the seven human souls.
As it stands, both of these are still problems, but the first one is way more obvious, whereas the second one really only dawns on you after the fact.

>>3777012
Agreed.
The first one is just a plain character assassination that ruined robas reputation for a while. The second one is just something that could be ignored and easily fixed.
Which probably explains why people care more so about the first one then the second one.

>>3776352
I always thought Toriel treated Asgore really cunty back when only Undertale was a thing. I wonder if Toby is intentionally making Toriel more obviously unlikable to make her negative aspects apparent to her fans

>>3776260
DRY1 after chapters 3 and 4 drop

>>3777200
Honestly? I think people knew Toriel treated Asgore poorly but, beyond people just being horny, people were much less sympathetic toward Asgore at the time and it was easier to excuse Toriel's bitchniness when you thought Asgore deserved it. Asgore is much more pathetic in Deltarune and he hasn't killed any children that we know of so far so when Toriel refuses to treat Asgore like a person and won't even talk about doing something for Asriel she's much, much less sympathetic to the audience.

So how long until we can stop censoring spoilers about the new chapters when mentioning them?

>>3777275
when everyone in the thread has played the chapters

>>3777275
I would wait until the 11th at least, give people a week. I coincidentally got two days off work but a lot of people have jobs (even 4channers) and might not have gotten the chance to dump a lot of hours into the game yet.

>>3777200
>>3777274
Alongside that the final moment of what a lot of people consider the best route, true pacifist, ends with toriel being a good carecaker for frisk. I think people mainly remember that especially the ending scene with toriel getting pie and putting it next to frisk bed. (also the credits scene just makes toriel seem okayish with asgore even doing the gardening near the school)
contrast this
with uty that ends with her (ceroba) injecting her child and letting clover die. And not only that but also being the prime supporter of letting clover suicide.

The endings, which were one the most memorable parts of the individual games, impacted how people viewed the characters. Add in the 10 years since undertales release and how very recent utys release was. Also add in the countless aus, fan works, and shit where a lot of them portray toriel better than she is. And you got the situation where people defended toriel a lot more.

Minor spoilers for Deltarune the secret melodies on the big piano confirm that character themes exist in universe. If you play Rouxls's theme on it, Ralsei will recognize it and comment on it being his theme. So I guess UTY was right

>>3777370
>spoiler
That's pretty cool

>>3777200
>Toby is intentionally making Toriel more obviously unlikable to make her negative aspects apparent to her fans
also I think this is probably the case. The undertale alarm clock reveals more of her asshole nature (refuses to give gift to asgore) and other red flags (she got drunk)
I think the alarm clock was forshadowing what was going to happen in chp4

>>3777275
Until the full game is done

>>3777420
I don't know if any of us will be alive by then.

>>3777422
>>3777420
Development will finish in the 2030s. Dont worry climate change wont be fully bad by then. And I doubt the usa and china will go to war with each other.
Also you probably wont get drafted since I think most of us are beyond the draft age

>>3777262
really the only thing I have changed is that I had planned for the person opening the fountains to be using a shadow crystal to do it, but since those seem to be linked directly to DR's knight I gotta change it, at least I already figured a way around it

>>3777370
can't really use that as proof because ralsei has meta knowledge

>>3777437
Im not looking at the spoilers so im gonna ask, will you give fox lace an expanded role.
Or
Are you keeping foxlace the same

>>3777443
I will rework most of chapter 1 and that is included in it

>>3777444
good, very good.

>>3777445
wait since you are reworking most of chapter one will you do the fox lace is the main villian idea or the fox lace is a mysterious stranger that will help you idea.

>>3777437
you could always just have them obtain the crystal independently of the knight like Chujin made his own vaxx independent of Alphys. Maybe you you could even make it similar but different to the DR shadow crystals, like its a different form of the same concept, so it could explain any other differences between your game and DR. Like maybe its called a night shard, or a dark lens, and it behaves slightly differently, but is still similar enough for the player to see the connection

>>3777461
hm, maybe

>>3777448
the main villain idea is more interesting to me but I don't want to make it too direct since I still want it to be a secret fight

>>3777437
Still, meta knowledge isn't too rare in UT. Characters like Flowey and Sans probably know about those things too.

>>3777462
fair fair.
Theres always the other option where you can completely change chapter one. Make the bear into the schizo boss (and t b h its pretty easy to do so since he already has the nihilistic thing to him. Hes already aware of the world)
By doing this you would have the opportunity to make the first dark world more unique. Making it more japanese themed since its the ceroba darkner that is the main villian or leader

>>3777462
>hm, maybe
To add to that idea. If you made it a dark lens, then you could have a character who wears sunglasses have one as one of its lenses, and he could be a schizo boss or a villain Then when you beat him you get the broken glasses that have a cracked dark lens in them,

>>3777462
>>3777466
I think keeping it as the schizo, but adding a mysterious benefactor angle to it is more interesting.

>>3777471
That would work too. Both are interesting ideas imo. Both could work either way.

>>3777465
Sans just happens to come up with a character's theme song and have it play in his head when he sees them, and it's always correct. Sans is really good at judging people, he could picture that sort of thing very well

>>3777501
Sans also does that look at the camera with a rimshot thing, and he's the only one who does it. So he might be able to hear the music and knows he has control over his own music. So he made it do a rimshot for the purpose of a gag.

https://vocaroo.com/1bK2evlAvzBn
dry anon remember one of the guys that was making music for you.
He was making this track for ringo but he doesnt know how to continue it. Do the anons here have any idea on how to continue it.

>>3777537
Sounds way too intense for how silly of a fight Ringo is. I'd say make it jazzier and throw in a bunch of alarm bells as instruments. I'm not dryanon, so I don't know what he wants though.

>>3777537
I agree with >>3777540 , sounds a bit too intense
also I think just having a general criminal battle theme is better than each having their own since that would be a lot of themes otherwise

>>3777540
noted, I will tell him
>>3777547
also noted. Wait are you dry anon? If you are that last bit you said would be very important info for that musician.

>>3777583
yes
I think only major bosses should have unique themes, like how it is in the game rn with the placeholder tracks, ringo and pennilton share the same track because they are minor minibosses, and I was gonna reuse that music for the other small criminals too

>>3777585
alright, then I will tell him that. I also will tell him to make just one generic track for all the mini bosses.

>>3777585
>>3777587
Hes asking if this
https://vocaroo.com/1bK2evlAvzBn (embed)
could still be used. If it can be used for something in the game.

>>3777589
also asking
https://vocaroo.com/1hqN7w9v6y4c
if this could still be used for something

>>3777589
it could probably fit for another boss later in the game, its a good theme it just doesn't fit ringo

>>3777591
hm, a field theme maybe? or maybe a gimmick boss like jackstein from ch 4

>>3777593
alright I will tell him.

>>3777591
>>3777593
It does sound pretty spooky, but also like a night club. Sort of like Crypt of The Necro Dancer's soundtrack. Maybe you could have a spooky enemy with this as his fight theme, and then have an area with a theme that has the same lietmotif.

>>3777603
I second this

>>3777607
Maybe its a dancing halloween decoration based darkner called the boogie man, and it turns into a spooky monster DJ who plays only the spookiest beats for all the other halloween decorations that have been haphazardly shoved into the closet.

>>3777610
that's already done in chapter 4

>>3775782
There is another major revelation about fountains, may be important for DRY
Fountains are affected by the person who creates them. Two people made fountains in the same place, resulting in different dark worlds where different sets of objects became darkners, while the rest got petrified.

>>3777612
Jackenstein is a halloween decoration, yes, but he's a conventional one that lights up and goes boo. This would be one of those silly ones that sings the monster mash or something. And besides, we see in ch 4 that even if it were literally the same object, a different person making the fountain means the resulting darkner will be completely different. You've already done different takes on Toby's ideas with the lost and found dark world and Robotopia contrasting against the Card Kingdom and Cyber World. Just make the implementation and design different and it will feel fresh.

Instead of making it a scary maze game knockoff with Atari graphics pumpkins and YTP jokes, make it a rhythm game with a bogeyman disc jockey playing beats that you have to move in time to.

>>3777603
>>3777610
To avoid the Deltarune comparisons you could make it primarily music-themed and secondarily spooky-themed. Something like (and this would need to be refined to be more diegetic) a discarded 2000s-era MP3 player with music illegally downloaded from limewire, and one of the songs was created by, but not properly credited to by the uploader, Napstablook. Maybe having Blooky cameo would be a bit much, and you couldn't just sample Spookwave because Jackenstein already does that but I'm sure someone could come up with something better.

>>3777625
Unrelated but oh my god I only just now got the reference of Napstablook's name I'm so fucking slow

>>3777625
I think the halloween decoration idea could still work there are dozens of other common halloween decorations besides jack o lanterns. it could be witches, ghosts, spiders, those zombie hands in the buckets of candy, that one cardboard cut out human that they don't use anymore because they don't want to be racist around Cole. The bogeyman himself can be basically anything you want him to be, since the concept never has any one set appearance. Hell he could even just be a father/snatcher style black silhouette with glowing eyes against a flashing disco background. Set him in front of a turntable, give him a pair of headphones and you're set. Hell, maybe if the physical decoration is still no good he could be the halloween laser lights with a built in music player, and he literally is a shadow on the wall.

>>3777631
That's fair. Perhaps a group of Halloween decorations that developed a club culture because someone left an old, forgotten, barely used MP3 player in it and the Darkners from the closet built a religion around its five-or-so songs, in the same vein as the villains from Nadesico who are obsessed with an old anime that makes up their sum total of culture? They like one song the most and the leitmotif of that song gets used for the location theme, character themes and battle theme. At the end of the chapter when you find the music player in the light world Kanako charges its battery enough to turn it on and hears a really shitty song loop with the leitmotif, then turns it off.

>>3777637
I was thinking this would be a somebody's house dark world, and the closet would only be one area of it. Probably a shorter area too, mainly focused on just the Boogie Man fight. Sort of like how Muffet was in Undertale. Also I want to specify that the boogie man is a laser light show projector and music player combo. He probably only has the built in songs and can't play downloaded mp3s at all.

>>3777640
>He probably only has the built in songs and can't play downloaded mp3s at all
Or you could make it possible to download it, but the owner didn't know how and never did. The player considers its library vast (or if we're going with cheesy spook, "an unending parade of horrors") but only plays the same two songs over and over and never picks up on the oddity of this.

Tangential but you could parody something like the iDog as a Darkner if we're going the route of music-adjacent toys with lights. Probably can't fit it into the spooky light show boss, just a separate idea

>>3777643
You could have them both go to the dark jail and the iDog comments (its a translated bark) on the Boogieman's lack of song variety. If you talk to the Boogieman he's amazed how many songs that little dog knows.

As for his character, I was thinking he's less generic spook, and more of a suave radio DJ. Sort of like DJ professor K, but with a halloween theme.

>>3777648
>I was thinking he's less generic spook, and more of a suave radio DJ. Sort of like DJ professor K, but with a halloween theme
Yeah, that makes more sense than what I had in my head. The not!iDog could be an incidental NPC without a fight, maybe shows up in the pre-fight cutscene for a single joke and then you can talk to it in the area the boss appears post-fight.

>>3777649
I think the iDog might make a decent Robotopia common enemy, actually. It could be a fun inverse of the tasques, You capture it, send it to the dark jail, then later send the Boogie Man there, and that's where they meet.

>>3777200
>>3777274
Toriel was stuck in a cave in voluntary seclusion for only god knows how long so her worst traits are tempered by isolation with a bunch of stupid tutorial frogs, an emo ghost, and a bunch of spiders.

>>3777655
I think toriels different nature in ut and dr also affected her.
Toriel in dr seems to be a normal monster. Toriel in ut is a very old boss monster.
The difference in ages probably affected how they acted. Also ut toriel seemed to have a way longer happier relationship with ut asgore than dr toriel did with dr asgore. So theres that too

>>3776041
i think the special darkness is either personally knowing the person that died, or feeling really strongly about them: susie was idolizing the darkner version of gerson, not the real one, she didnt even KNOW he was gerson at ALL, so in the end, her version of gerson was just a "darker than dark" darkner2, thus, you just need to know them a lot in order for their darkner versions to be fully accurate to the real darkner, i wonder what wouldve happened if she chose to simply grab the gerson memorial thingy from the light world and decide to take it to castle town, after all, lancer and rouxls always remained consistent when they went to ch2 and 3's dark worlds.

>>3776256
>I have to account for player choice and its relation to canon. If I make Gerson an encounter then that means the player can kill him, which means he can't appear in Undertale. If I don't make him an encounter, how do I explain him not intervening to stop the player if he does a genocide playthrough?
Just make some routes non-canon, uty had no issue doing that with its geno run

so at this current time who is the worst mother.
ceroba or toriel or carol.
who is the worst father
chujin or rudy or asgore

>>3777681
The issue is that said characters would have to show up in all routes.

>>3777687
Chujin loses by default by nature of being dead, with Rudy getting second place by being on death's door, and Asgore is the best of the three because even if he is broke and has terminal oneitis, he's at least still around to raise Kris.

Roba put Kanako in a state worse than death then left her in hell on earth forever, so she loses. Toriel gets second place because of that new scene. Carol we don't have enough to judge her by yet.

>>3777681
>>3777688
guess gerson is just mentioned then (his acts of bravery in the war saving monsters get commented by npcs?), but he was still active in the war and probably one of the few monsters that managed to survive to the time UT proper happens

>>3776621
Honestly, i feel like there shouldve been some changes in ch3&4, ||first of all, make the knight's fight weird run exclusive, he had no right to be the main schizo boss when his fight is utter dogshit in terms of difficulty and you get obliterated almost instantly, not to mention you have to MANUALLY close the game and reopen it to get another try while still having to skip all of the text on the way to the fight, this is such a high difficulty spike coming out of nowhere that not even ch4 gerson manages to be harder than him, just make ramb the schizo boss in the normal run cus it wants you to stay and play forever with you needing to find the shadowmantle somewhere else or smthn while in the weird run ramb notices "how addicted kris is getting to the power" after telling him about the weird run so he just gives kris the shadowmantle but realizes he lost his shadowcrystal and sets off to find it, skipping his battle entirely, making the knight da ch3 weird run boss would also make the weird part of the weird run accurate, if you still want the knight to do his thing on the normal run, then ig you can make him nearly invulnerable unlike in the weird run to the point where you cant actually get him down to 75% hp, that way he's still a threat. Plus, there are some unexplained things, where the fuck was undyne at this entire time? She just kinda appears as a deus ex machina for kris and co. to not die then dips, you'd think that with all the time spent on kris and friends gaming for hours with barely any savepoints in bewteen (compared to how ch1 and ch2 had save points every 3-6ish rooms) she would pop up and be dragged into tenna's games for funny character interactions, but no, she disappeared until the plot needed to use her for a minute, , ALSO WHERE THE FUCK ARE LANCER AND ROUXLS AT IN CH4 YOU HACKS?? TOBY DIDNT EVEN COME UP WITH A CREDIBLE EXCUSE FOR THEM TO DISAPPEAR NOR DID HE BOTHER ADDING A STATUED ROUXLS/LANCER! THEY JUST FORGOT EM!![/spoiler]

>>3777691
I can have him mentioned, maybe even give him a cameo appearance. But I can't make him have any kind of significant role in the game.

>>3777693
fucked up your spoiler bro.

>>3777694
If your main character can still do things on their own like how kris deltarune does, i guess you can make them hide when gerson pops up, if that is too unsatisfying, then do a mini-encounter where you are forced to retreat because of how strong gerson is atm

>>3777696
Oh yeah, my bad, i actually wrote that to some friends, i decided to add some extra things onto it before posting it here through, but it seems like ive forgotten to properly fix up the spoiler tag

>>3777699
I meant like you see him in the background of a level at one point or he's one of the monsters in the intro slides.

>>3777690
>Carol we don't have enough to judge her by yet.
Im prepared for the eventual reveal that carol is godawful.
Ive seen all the forshadowing already with her. And looking at what toby was willing to do with toriel. Well I can tell carol is going to be godawful

>>3777710
Im pretty sure toby intended for us to not like Carol, or at least see her as very weird, she literally turns off the music iirc and keeps belittling susie, and susie, known for not being able to tolerate people's bs, stands up against Carol, not to mention they use one of noelle's weird run "looking down" sprites at one point in their conversation, further cementing carol's behavior as non-acceptable.
Its amazingly stupid how people will say toriel is a homophobic nazi who likes to torture and shit on asgore 24/7 nonstop for no reason other than her being a bad person simply because of comedic relief moments like sans and toriel dancing or her rejecting flowers from her ex who's constantly harassing her by getting their child to send flowers to toriel or simply waiting behind some trees until toriel comes out of the church to try to give her flowers again, but then turn around and say Carol's not that bad or doesnt have enough stuff to judge her despite the serious moments we have with her being pretty clearly depicted as her being a strict serious mother, i feel like most people are scraping anything they can find about toriel to justify their hate on her even more despite deltarune toriel not being that bad, it's really crazy how many people overwhelmingly hate her

>>3777752
Alright, Carol definitely seems like a bit of a bitch, but she did lose one of her children, and she's responsible for managing an entire town. Even if she's stuck up, I feel like she at least has some justifiable reasons for being that way.
I don't hate Toriel, but she seems like a pretty bad parent, both in Undertale and Deltarune at this point.

>>3777752
>comedic relief moments like sans and toriel dancing
It wasn't a comedy moment at all. Kris is genuinely suffering from the realization that his family will never be back together, and even Susie is completely disgusted by her behavior.

As for Carol, I expect that she is meaning well, but she got completely obsessed by the idea of bringing back her mother to the point that she is willing to do anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcrPzr-GR5M
Some Darkner ideas (and some nice prog rock as well).

>>3777693
If you finish the chapter you can immediately start the fight and retry.

>>3777765
I agree that most of the characters in this looks like darkners, but the some of the environments look exactly like how I'd imagined an area in my UT fangame would look.

>>3777780
They do look like a dark world, and there's a schizoboss too.

>>3777760
Eh, in undertale you could argue that she's gone a bit insane from all the time she's spent in the ruins, im sure we'll hear more of toriel's side in deltarune at the very least.
>>3777762
That aside, sure, it sucks for kris, but what is toriel supposed to do? Just sit still on a chair everyday and remain miserable forever? Plus, kris hasnt shown up to their home all day so its possible that toriel just thought that kris was sleeping at either noelle's house or their new friend susie's house and just decided to get silly with sans, do note that in the ch4 ending, toriel seems to talk and act like she's drunk or something, so you could potentially give her a pass for being too drunk to understand what she's doing atm, sure, its one thing to find her parenting questionable, but another is just calling her a shitty ass mother because of a few moments

>>3777803
No I meant specifically Undertale. There's an area in my Undertale prequel game that has the same inside a giant clockwork device feel. I might even have enemies based on those unicycle guys.

>>3775162
By driving home how it's impossible for them to get any other ending. That giving it up peacefully is the best solution available.

>>3778156
The only way I can see that working is if the royal guard show up. Say during the suicide, the royal guard appears and blocks the entrance.
There clover has no choice but to suicide. Because theres no other choice

thread >>>/v/712059321

>>3777630
Isn't it just Nap+stab+look? What else is there?

>>3778389
Napsta = Napster
I'm told Toby didn't actually name the character with that in mind but recognized the connection after he got attached to them and made Napstablook into music after the fact, though

To the anon like, 2 UTY threads ago who I talked with about making that MGS4 UTY shitpost, it's done.

>>3776901
Well, have you played it yet? What'd you think?

>>3778340
Am I the only person from these threads who actually liked new chapters? Are UTY threads gonna be about shitting on Deltarune from now on?

>>3778616
Meh, it's release week, and people built off some image in their heads. Let time smooth things out.
I went in with no expectation and was pleasantly surprised by everything.

>>3778622
I was quite disheartened to first go to /v/ and find out everyone seems to be disappointment in new chapters. But then opinion quickly turned, yet I still see people in UTY thread actually claiming that UTY is better than anything in Deltarune. Let's be realistic - UTY was good, but it never had a moment with an emotional impact comparable to, say, Asriel's backstory in New Home in Undertale, meanwhile Church dark world in Deltarune set the bar so impossibly high that I don't see any fan projects getting anywhere close to it.

>>3778631
*disappointed
Fucking autocorrect disappointment me

>>3778631
>emotional impact
The sequence after Ceroba's fight where Clover closes his eyes and try to psyche himself up for the only way out of the loop was decent. Gift was a good song too.
Overall while it's true that there wasn't an equivalent, I think fangames shouldn't be too hard on themselves. They're fun sidepieces, not burdened by the responsability of a full game. If your fangame is closer to TV World than Church World, it's fine.
You're adding flavor to a greater whole, not trying to redefine the wheel.
The Church being ass

>>3778639
>I think fangames shouldn't be too hard on themselves. They're fun sidepieces, not burdened by the responsability of a full game
I mean, that's the bar UTY dev team set for themselves. They weren't trying to overshadow original Undertale. UT was a culmination of centuries-old conflict, UTY was just another chapter in this story. The decision was absolutely correct, I think.

So with Tenna calling Dess both "December" and "Dess" within the same conversation, what will be RV Pines excuse for their Dess interpretation?

>>3777694
>>3777709
My idea for Gerson in my fangame is to make him an optional boss, that way the canonicity of your encounter with him is questionable

so was chp 3 and 4 good or bad. Did it disappoint you or did you like it.

>>3778878
it went in a different direction than pretty much what everyone expected
I will miss the times where people thought DR would follow the ch 1 and 2 formula more instead of going off the rails like 3 and 4 did, and it will only get more fucked up from here

>>3778631
I genuinely did not like the church dark world. Made me want to punch Ralsei. The rest of it was just too high scope and dark for my tastes. Especially considering this only the middle act. Things will only go downhill from here in terms of tone and up in terms of scope.

>>3778783
Tenna won't do that in his version of chapter 3. I think trans Dess is retarded, but come on man, he calls it his own take on Deltarune. That means he'll make it what he wants it to be.

>>3778876
I was thinking of maybe adding a freeplay battle mode to Oldentale for people that beat the game, so they can go back and redo individual fights at any time they want. I could maybe put him in as an easter egg in there. Maybe if you do a special challenge or enter a code.

>>3778878
Too damn hard, the graphics don't have the soul they used to have, the story is getting too dark, and I don't like the new gameplay. I actually liked chapter 3, just wish it had more content instead of just minigames. Overall I enjoyed it, but it still disappointed me. Definitely liked it a lot less than previous chapters.

>>3778878
>>3778891
I absolutely hate "muh depressionkino" and misery porn of all kind, I would never touch Omori or Lisa, but Deltarune tricked me in and by god it was executed beautifully. I wasn't convinced about chapter 3 at first, but it grew on me once I analyzed it deeper, and chapter 4 was absolutely beautiful in every way. Gerson alone makes everything worth it, if Toby can make characters like that, I'm not worried about the fate of this game.

>>3778878
i initially was just meh on chapter 3 but the final bit salvaged it for me, loved chapter 4
now that its had time to settle i've come to appreciate chapter 3 as well, i just had my expectations way too high for what was an admitted filler chapter

>>3778901
I actually like melancholic and depressing stuff in small doses or when it fits the story. This just went from silly scrimblo simulator with dark undertones to wall to wall depression, but occasionally a scrimblo pops out to remind me what game I'm playing. Honestly, I could tolerate that, but adding all this crazy titan shit along side the prophecies has turned into a sienen anime (which I also don't mind if it were that from the start) and made me really not like the story. I don't want my Undertales turning into furry Evangelion, and it seems like that's what this is now.

>>3778897
>Too damn hard
there were only some truly difficult fight, the secret bosses, the two miniboses from chapter 4 and the final boss, I actually like how the dificulty is increasing with each chapter, but maybe I'm just a tryhard

>>3778902
>what was an admitted filler chapter
Which turned out a big misdirection, since in reality it was more of a transitional chapter tone-wise. Despite the presentation, it was actually darker than chapter 2, with a big fucking lore nuke dropped right in the beginning and a good look at Dreemurs family situation.

>>3778907
Eh, I would've hated it absolutely if not for Gerson, but thanks to him I know what kind of story it is going to be now. Little hint - you should get familiar with the word "eucatastrophe".

>>3778911
>Eh, I would've hated it absolutely if not for Gerson, but thanks to him I know what kind of story it is going to be now. Little hint - you should get familiar with the word "eucatastrophe".
I know what kind of story its going to be too, that's why I'm getting off this train now. I'm good about telling when a story takes a turn for the worse, and that usually when it starts doing stuff like this. Whatever Tolkein references Toby has planned, I'm not interested in seeing them.

If I do play the new chapters when they release, it will only be so I'm not left out of the loop for the discussion of the game. I don't actually want to know what happens next or the answers to the questions I have anymore.

>>3778922
>Whatever Tolkein references Toby has planned, I'm not interested in seeing them
It's not a reference, it's a storytelling concept. I too wanted it to be a light-hearted romp with scrimblo bimblos, but even Undertale wasn't like that. If you think it's going to be misery porn for the sake of misery porn all the way to the end, then you must be the most media-illiterate man in the world.

>>3778936
>but even Undertale wasn't like that
It was unless you went out of your way to make it not one. The Omega Flowey fight and True Lab are like 30 minutes of a five hour game near the end. And even then the happy scrimblo stuff comes back right after.

>It's not a reference, it's a storytelling concept
I am aware. Its one that usually involves putting your characters through a lot of suffering and misery so that at the darkest hour things can be saved. I'm also aware of how there's no going back once one starts. Even if they get the good ending and break the prophecy, somebody's gonna die and a lot of bad stuff is going to happen along the way, way more than in Undertale. I've read Lord Of The Rings, I know how this sort of thing goes. Even after the story is over Frodo never gets to return to the shire and be happy, he's traumatized forever and has to leave Middle Earth (which itself is an allegory for him committing suicide due to trauma). Even Middle Earth itself ceases to exist as all the fantasy departs from it so it can become the modern world.

That kind of thing depresses me on a profound and fundamental level.

> If you think it's going to be misery porn for the sake of misery porn all the way to the end,
Not at all. I'm sure all the misery they go through will be very purposeful. Allowing the characters to grow, the plot to progress, and a message to taught to the player. I just don't want to see it. I don't want to see this kind of character growth, or to hear the message its trying to teach me. It really feels like its going to be something I don't want to hear.

Deltarune has entered the arc, and I hate arcs. Especially when they start mid way through. They have ruined plenty of stories for me. I only like them when they start when the story starts, so I don't get attached to the status quo, or if they're subtle enough to sneak up on me and only get me at the end.

so I wrote this analysis on roba and toriel (which I need to edit more since I realized somethings about toriel)
But as it is, can you anons tell me your thoughts on it. Is it right? Is there any errors

I agree with you on that. But let me explain what I mean first.

Ive been thinking about the difference between toriel and ceroba. And well, I think I figured it out.

Ceroba can be and has proven to be a very loving mother. Unlike toriel, ceroba isnt really negligent. Ceroba never displays any negligent behaviour and is instead a very dedicated and good mom. However ceroba, in high stress situations, starts doing some awful shit.

For example let me use her dealings with clover. Its clear that despite her efforts, she becomes somewhat attached to clover. She probably feels some sort of maternal attachment towards clover (as seen by her crying during the battle).

But at the same time she proceeds to not only try to kill them. But also keep trying to kill them multiple times. Never ending until finally she gets beaten.

Toriel put in this situation wouldnt do that. Toriel would actively refuse to try to kill a child. Instead she lets them go into dangerous areas and hopes for the best.

I think a key difference between toriel and ceroba, is that ceroba would genuinely kill a child if she thinks its for the greater good. Even if she feels some sorta maternal attachment towards that child. Toriel meanwhile would just let that child die, or do the awful things she did to kris, asgore and etc.

They are both awful in their unique ways, though admittingly ceroba can be a good mother. Toriel is kinda.......toriel

>>3777585
https://files.catbox.moe/upa4jv.mp3
Meltdown Anon here, I've made one last change to my submission but it's relatively minor. I just added some of Pokemon HGSS's sawtooths to make it feel a bit more game-y, and now I believe it's ready

>>3778910
You're not a tryhard, other anons just suck

>>3778977
>Deltarune has entered the arc, and I hate arcs. Especially when they start mid way through. They have ruined plenty of stories for me. I only like them when they start when the story starts, so I don't get attached to the status quo, or if they're subtle enough to sneak up on me and only get me at the end.
Thank heaven most stories aren't written with your lot in mind, otherwise they'd all suck

>>>/v/712209561
actually that is one thing that DR does that goes against my idea with DRY (as seen in the balloon ride in day 2), but I can probably bullshit some explanation for that like weaker darkness than that of the DR dark fountains or something, I prefer if darkners aren't 100% aware of what they are or how they work

>>3779332
nice, thanks. I will add it in game

>>3779554
I mean arc as in the way anime uses the term, not as in character arc. Character arcs are good, I like those. I mean that Deltarune has fundamentally changed as a story, in tone, art style, and scope.

I think the best example of anime arcing out and me hating it was Bleach. I loved the first season, but after Rukia got kidnapped and they had to go to the soul society to rescue her my enjoyment started a sharp decline, and by the end of that arc and the start of the next one I did not care about the characters or where they were going at all.

>>3779618
It seems like not all Darkners are aware that were objects in DR either. Sure Tenna is aware that he was a TV and remembers his existence as one, but Lancer seems completely oblivious to his existence as a playing card. Same with Spamton, he seems a little mixed up over whether he's real or not. Sometimes acting like his history was him as a person, rather than him as an inanimate object.

Continuing on that Woody discussion from last thread. I think the tape character and the doll character should be separated. They can both be cowboys, but one would parallel Tenna, being a darkner based on an object that Cole was very attached to as a child. The other would be something he never liked, hence its resentfulness. I think creepy pull string doll is obviously the one he didn't like, while the low budget cowboy show was the one he loved, but grew out of.

>>3779627
maybe it depends of how strong a darkner is, like how tenna is 3D unlike the other darkners
doesn't explain the pippins being fully aware though
speaking of spamton, a few things came to mind after ralsei's explanation on dark worlds, like how can the computer lab make computer programs become their own beings? wouldn't that just be the physical computer hardware since the dark world is when light runs out and you start seeing things that aren't really there but still based on reality? and computers produce light on their monitors too, which would be anti darkness or soemthing

>>3779650
Maybe it has something to do with who makes the fountain and their intention when making it. The first time we see darkners completely aware of what they are in the light world is in the TV World, which was made by Kris. Maybe his will caused them to be aware, while the will of the Cyber World creator didn't make its denizens aware.

>>3779629
imo the cowboy bit, while fitting, is honestly too on the nose. Someone else mentioned Candle Cove, you are now aware of the passage of time why not go the whole way and make it a low budget pirate show.

>>3779739
the whole reason we're doing it is because of the cowboy bit

>>3779825
I just don't want the woody schizos to have an actual win. the spammers don't deserve it when they unironically started arguing that TADC was somehow connected to Deltarune.

>>3779864
that was just autists thinking that alex's spamton voice was the "canon" voice when it has nothing to do with the game or toby

>>3779864
>TADC
I don't know what that is and letting spammers and whether or not they get wins influence your writing is stupid and childish.

I finished doing Snowgrave in chapter 2 and I didn't like it one little bit :(

>>3779948
it gets worse

>>3779951
Are there any further "Requirements" for maintaining the route, or is it set and forget?

>>3779952
just some stuff in chapter 4, in 3 you don't need to do anything
it will be obvious when you see it
just a hint: after the first "proceed", move into kris before he notices you

>>3779953
thank you

>>3779952
It's pretty obvious what steps to take, I wouldn't worry. If you didn't hear it in Chapter 2, there's a unique jingle that plays when you make a choice that aborts Snowgrave.

>>3779952
>>3780023
Oh also after you lock it in (you will know exactly when you have done this) there are a handful of very interesting, purely optional new dialogue choices sprinkled throughout the rest of the chapter. Pay attention to the choices you're given in case there's something special there.

Just found out the leftover assets from Chapter 3's unfinished board 3 mention a cancelled cowboy puppet show

>>3780120
>double cancelled
lmao

Guys. I just realized that Roba is not the only one who deserves apology

>>3780308
Now I need to see Gerson coming back from retirement only to kick this guy's ass for shit talking Undyne

>>3780343
And kick Undyne's ass for jobbing.

>>3780308
>apologize to the reddit powerwank oc
No.

>>3780308
Why would I be apologizing to him?

>>3780386

>>3780343
Getting into a fight with Gerson would probably be the best thing that could happen to Shu. Gerson would take "teach him a lesson" literally, and give him a life lesson while they were fighting. By the end of it Shu would be not only a better fighter, but a better person as well. It'd be like when people fight Jackie Chun at the world martial arts tournament.

>>3780388
Shu, stop posting. The knight would kick your ass.

so something that was bothering me in DR is that you can't easily refight bosses, for chapters 1 and 2 I kept save files before king, jevil, spamton etc to refight them at any moment but with the secrets in 3 and 4 and all the other stuff, that's harder to manage there
so I added a battle memory from the save points where you can refight any boss you've beaten at any time (you won't get anything from it its just to fight again)
your save file is backed up before and then restored later so you don't lose items
also added more save files and chapter selection (chapters start locked until you get there but you can type the konami code on the title screen to unlock them)

>>3780415
Cool, I think every fangame should add a way to refight bosses. most of the don't even give you multiple save files

>>3780388
You say as if the knight didnt get his shit kicked in so hard that he started to shoot swords from afar since then and decided to summon a titan the moment after susie told him that he's fucked, almost as if he's scared of getting his shit kicked in by the fuck squad (again) and gerson

>>3779952
>>3780030
Protip: these new dialogue choices and changes happen mostly when you choose smthn related to noelle when she isnt around.
In fact, another protip if you care: try choosing all the anti-susie choices in chapter 4 during the weird route

>>3780747
Damn, Undyne jobbed to THAT?

>>3780748
>protip
nta, but what does that do?

>>3780798
During the piano scene Kris will bite his hand if you make him say "I will never play again" (on normal route he will just start coughing). Unrelated to that, during tea scene with Gerson he offers Kris an apple if Kris refuses tea, suggesting it's a right thing for him. On Weird Route he bites the core because it contains cyanide (the bitter taste is mentioned specifically).

>>3780810
another choice i was alluding to is what happens if you choose to not close your eyes to get the option to think about noelle

I may be a random anonymous man from the internet who has no idea how the progress on DRY is but I think, and this may be a controversial thunk, that Clover SHOULDN'T be the only human. It would help make it stand out from DR if there's more than one human. Doesn't have to be an important one, just one to go "hello fellow human I am human too we are similar creatures yes?"

>>3780833
both DRY projects have clover/cole and melody (integrity) as humans

>>3780835
Well I don't pay attention to things so

recruit 25 shadow guys, are you flicking my ballsack?

>>3780885
There's a room where you recruit like 20 of them at once

>>3780888
I remember how everyone was freaking out over 1/25, thinking that Pacifist will be intentionally grindy like Genocide, but it was obvious it's gonna be this.

>some retard is still going on about the virus software flagging on gamejolt
For fucks sake it's been two months, someone would have gotten hit by this point.

>>3780984
>some retard
It's the same guy as before actually

https://youtu.be/guLu7dO5tE8?si=Ssauh9gOLJuoQnv3 theres an UTY leitmotif in deltarune chapter 3&4 btw

>>3781233
I don't hear it.

>>3781233
wasn't the justice motiff taken from the flowey fight from UT anyway?

>>3781233
Totally unintentional but this is neat. I can finally mark "Undertale Yellow reference" on my bingo card

Who will get the next completely accidental Toby reference?

So I'm thinking, how are Deltravelers devs taking to the new chapters.
With the new lore that probably invalidates most of theirs.

Hopefully they'll realize their game is shit already.

>>3781305
I'm curious about that too since they were so confident they had "predicted" the plot of DR

>>3781307
Did they really claim that? What is RynoGG's brilliant take?

>>3781305
I hope they keep trucking, Deltatraveler is cringekino

>>3781332
I do want to see with what bullshit they'll come up with to still justify their story.

>>3781305
>>3781307
qrd for their bullshit?

>>3781307
I still can't believe how much they missed the mark with Dess and how much cooler the actual canon Dess is.

>>3781317
not sure the specifics but I remember they kept smugly acting like they had figured out all of DR, then you have kris killing the soul (kinda accurate so I give them that), noelle swearing, kris talking with a portrait and having those ugly eyelashes, not to mention dess being gaster's assistant and gaster himself being an evil scientist wanting a new world or something, I didn't play past part 3 desu (pic is actual screenshot from the game)

>>3781400
*part 2

>>3781400
>they kept smugly acting like they had figured out all of DR
And then Toby hits the ball out of the park with both Gaster and Dess while they go with the most boring interpretation ever.

added reflections

>>3781484

>>3781484

>>3781499
Add the reflection human to the reflection

>>3781484
make cole's reflection have no eyes and only the shadow for no reason at all just to confuse the players.

>>3781495
Still don't know what the artist was thinking changing the design for Mei, then again artist types seem to not be able to contain themselves when redoing stuff and being stuck going nowhere

>>3781484
>>3781646
A FUN event where Cole's and Kanako's reflection sprites are replaced with their Undertale Yellow sprites could be an easter egg

>>3781698
That's brilliant

I just realized that half of The Knight's attacks are just Red's attacks from UT Red.

>>3781743
the dev is working with toby so it might be intentional

>>3781698
>>3781729
Make it so instead of their regular UTY sprites they are Clover after giving away his soul (shadow eyes and no hat) and amalgam Kanako

>>3781895
regular uty sprites would be better

brothers...the roaring knight CH3 fight ...

>>3781698
>>3781646
>>3781895
>>3781898
with the way its coded I would need to make an entire new sheet for each different reflection but I can probably sneak in some funny easter eggs that randomly trigger with a 1/1000 chance when you enter the room or something

>>3781903
There already sprite sheets for Kanako and Clover in UTY. Couldn't you just use those?

>>3781932
that's not it, I mean I need to set more png files with just those sprites at the same coordinates
the way the reflections work is by making a sprite object that follows the "target" sprite but flipped, I am using sprite rects to make the animations (so I don't need a lot of separated files bloating the filesystem), so it gets that data from the target object and mirrors it
the only way to change it that doesnt involve coding alternate dictionary for every sprite offset is to swap the texture used to source the rect from, hence adding a reflection for UTY clover or just non visible eye for cole needs an entire new png with the same resolution as the original one but just with those sprites changed

>>3781900
it isnt as hard as everyone says really
except the sword corridor, I hate that attack

>>3781944
>it isnt as hard as everyone says
well that must be nice for you