Thread 3821741

People will be quick to say "the reactivity isn't the point, it's not meant to be like Skyrim" but let us not forget that the world reacting to the player's actions, whether it be physically or otherwise, is seen as a hallmark of any good RPG. Saying "it doesn't need to be reactive" for an RPG is like saying "it doesn't need to have satisfying shooting" for a first person shooter.

Reactivity in a role-playing game isn't object physics. Your approach to games is like a child playing with toys.

>>3821741 (OP)
Its good for immersive sim, like Skyrim

>>3821752
ok so in which other form of reactivity is Avowed superior or even notable?

>>3821741 (OP)
Avowed is a shit game, but it's not a shit game because cups don't fall over when hit with a sword.

>>3821924
the cups not falling over when hit with a sword is due to the same root cause of it being shit in other ways. if they cant be bothered to make the game world feel nice in this way they probably cant in other ways either. it signifies aesthetic corruption, seeing something wrong and thinking it is fine.

>>3821752
>>3821924
Object physics are a basic videogame feature that has been around for decades. The fact that a AAA game from 202X doesn't have them is embarrassing.

>>3821924
it's shit because it lacks reactivity in all aspects, incorporeal everyday objects being just one of them.

>>3821741 (OP)
Ah, yes, my favourite genre - Reactive Physics Games.

>>3821924
I'm sure it's not the only reason anyway

>>3822034
HL2 physics was phenomenal back then, and its not first vidya to be made

>>3821741 (OP)
>"it doesn't need to be reactive"
that's true, but it would be a better game if it was.

>>3821741 (OP)
Is there any side quest in Avowed on the level of Elder Scrolls best side quests? Ofcourse no

Avowed is not even better than Fallout 4, let alone Oblivion or Skyrim.

>>3821768
>which other form of reactivity is Avowed superior
the form of shilling
the form of discord cope
the form of dogshit taste

those kinds

>>3821741 (OP)
It adds nothing and 99% of people don't care because it serves no purpose. The performance and QA costs isn't worth it.

Meanwhile, the best combat system in a first person RPG is in fact very relevant and is what Avowed has. But tards focus on petty pointless shit as usual on this board, because people here don't play games.

>>3822247
>Is there any side quest in Avowed on the level of Elder Scrolls best side quests? Ofcourse no
You're right, they're better.
Unless you think something like going to a house to kill rats, then being told to find a hunter that walks around in full plate and a sword to kill cougars is the best shit ever.

>>3821741 (OP)
Part 1
there is a reason that these comparison videos don't exist outside of vs-TES-games space
the reason is that in fact almost no other RPG-adjacent games do that even though they could off
it doesn't add gameplay value and it only adds tedium (and you know it)

That's it
there are physics in the engine out of the box, the items are pinned intentionally specifically not to cause the tableware-flying-around-the-room shitshow that is present in TES games
and we know that because they forgot to pin some of the items in place (picrel from my playthrough)

>>3822494
Part 2
>>3822027
>if they cant be bothered to make the game world feel nice in this way they probably cant in other ways either
you really should stop having a strong opinion on things before you try them out yourself
avowed absolutely nails the two things it was set out to do, fun combat and exploration, that's where the tiny little details shine that you don't even notice at first but that make the experience feel naturally ceaseless

we talked about it before, let me see if I still have images from that discussion in my temp pile

>>3822494
>>3822496
>>3822410
>>3822409
you realize that your posts were already addressed in the OP, right? see here for more details >>3822246

>>3821741 (OP)
>go to buy something in a shop
>everything on the counter goes flying because the shopkeeper got too close
>shopkeeper doesn't react
>grab something to drag it back onto the counter
>instantly get a bounty for theft transmitted to psychic guards and the shopkeeper starts screaming for help
Wow, much immersive, very RPG

I have never willingly hit an item in skyrim.

>>3822500
how would you feel if you hadn't had breakfast this morning?

oh that was actually oblivion nvm. you guys are still retarded tho

>>3822497
>but wouldn't it be cool if there was also X (some irrelevant feature that actually doesn't make the game better) in the game?
that's a child's argument I see no point of addressing
but if you insist, no I the game would not be better
I WANT the objects I can pick up to be in place because it's more convenient for me as a player, I WANT the objects that serve no real gameplay purpose such as tableware to be static because it is convenient for me as a player
In a game with a lot of "flow" like avowed I WANT the vendor to be in the place I expect him to be at night because that is convenient for me as a player, I WANT the NPC to not be damaged forcing me to reload a save, because it is convenient for me as a player and more importantly it helps to keep the flow

>>3822505
This
Object physics and NPC scheduling can be fun if a game is built around them but I don't want to have to wait for 12 hours every time I get back to town just so the stores open so I can sell off all my loot, it's just pointless time-wasting

>>3822505
you may not want to admit it to yourself but your brain subconsciously has fun and enjoys seeing the world react to your actions. this has known for a long time.

https://youtu.be/MGpFEv1-mAo?t=42

>>3822496
>let me see if I still have images from that discussion in my temp pile
Here is a compressed picrel of the sight a player who has just entered the Shatterscarp sees
Notice that the area has been designed so player can immediately notice 3 climbable points of interest in the distance to spark the player's interest?

>>3821741 (OP)
None of that is player reactivity.
If you want to be extremely generous, the physics in Elder Scrolls is at best "I guess that's neat" once and you never think about it ever again, until it just becomes annoying when items slide down hills, get lost or just behave in very unrealistic ways which takes you out of the experience.
If physics could be removed in Elder Scrolls to improve even a single thing like combat, writing, quests or actual player reactivity I would've dropped it in a heartbeat.

>>3822513
Gayben has never designed a good video game

>>3822513
Yes, sure, it can be entertaining (see minecraft, or GTA shenanigans) I'm not going to argue with that
but that's just a different type of game and that's not what I play [FP action-]RPGs for
Morrowind didn't have item physics, and the first moment (out of many) I went
>Fuck
looking at the objects of some room I was interested in fly off because I was a bit clumsy in Oblivion I was pretty fucking glad Morrowind didn't

>>3822514
Notice how a light and shadow of the rock arching over form a golden road akin to bends of a river in a distance pointing the player and framing a point of interest?

most players won't even understand what drew them that direction, to them it just occurs naturally
and some players will not even go through that way, they might go some other way
[but I'm pretty sure there are more visual cues for them as well]

now THAT is the attention to detail I want in the games I play
that's just fucking genius

>>3822410
Notice how you gave zero examples.

You're cooked, just like your incompetent idols Obsidian.

>>3822523
>gives a literal example from oblivion
So you don't even play the games you're shitposting about, what a surprise.

>>3822522
I'm just touching the surface here I can sing praise to avowed's level design for hours pointing to specific examples, so I'll just end here because why would anyone put in more effort into a limp-wristed impotent attempt of a bait thread by some easily lead drooling retard?

Is it one of the best games overall? probably not
would I like the game better were some aspects of it better? yeah, sure, 50% of the writing could have been better
would having item physics help it? hell no

PS
Is the game fun to play as is? hell yeah
cope, seethe, dilate, kys

>>3822523
Don't you have some DLC for Starfield to be working on, Emil?

>>3822514
>>3822522
>>3822527
yeah i don't know why you spent 20 minutes talking about level design when nobody mentioned it or displayed interest in talking about it but hey i'm glad you got it out of your system i guess.

>>3822532
>anon directly explains why he brought up level design in one of his posts
>illiterate retard can't be bothered reading a couple dozen words to find out why
Excellent contribution

>>3821752
>Your approach to games is like a child playing with toys.
>the world reacting to the player's actions, whether it be physically or otherwise

Your approach to reading comprehension is like a thirdworlder wrangling with the english language.

>>3822532
>why you spent 20 minutes talking about level design
good level design is interesting to examine and talk about
it's a good topic, unlike the
>UHHHH CURRENT THING GUYS AMIRIGHT? AMIRIGHT? HAHA
your excrement-filled head is only capable off
and it's not even the current thing anymore
the legion of mindless e-celeb sheeple have moved on to the other 3-second-attention-span whatever are trendy ticktockity things

you and the handful of other obsidian-obsessed basement-dwellers are left alone in your pathetic anti-obsidian crusade no one cares about

>>3822539
calm down

>>3822540
0/10 bait anon
at this point it is customary to encourage you to do better but I know you lack the capacity so I'm not sending you on futile quests

>>3822540
PS also picrel and bye-bye

>>3822544
Dark Messiah... home...

>>3822542
deep breaths, anon. it's gonna be ok.

>>3821741 (OP)
Of course world reactivity matters. Dropping items on a table inside your home and them being there 50 hours later matter. Finding a bandit's corpse on the road you killed half an hour ago matters. Being able to follow every named NPC's personal schedule then rob their house matters. You might hate it but it's true, and it's why no matter how many people seethe about it there hasn't been a Skyrim Killer™ yet

>>3822544
That’s the first anything I’ve seen from avowed that looks at all fun

>>3822595
>drop item on a table inside my house
>next time I enter it flies off, clips through the wall and is lost forever
It Just Works(tm)

>>3822595
You sound like a monkey that thinks physics on bread is all it takes to make you happy.

>>3822603
>no argument
Figures

>>3822616
Illiterate-san...

>>3822600
that's pretty basic shit, lvl 0 skill in the fighter tree
I've captured fun moments but they take more some time and I can't be bothered to figure out how to compress them into the filesize limit without loosing too much

Just you wait though surely OP will post the same old webms of some retard playing the game like a retard on purpose to prove "it's not good"

>>3822785
I’ll wait til it’s on sale for 20 bucks

>>3821757
>immersive sim, like Skyrim
Fuck off

>>3821741 (OP)
>let us not forget that the world reacting to the player's actions, whether it be physically or otherwise, is seen as a hallmark of any good RPG.
Uhhhh..... what? What??? What are you even fucking talking about.

>>3821741 (OP)
Not even comparing it to Skyrim, the second I saw that table in the top clip not react I would never look at them again.

>>3821741 (OP)
I find it hilarious THIS is the hill shitposters want to die on when they want to hate on Avowed.
No combat, not quests, not world design, not narrative, not dialogue system, not writing, not characters, not skills and skill trees, etc.
No, smacking bread. That is by far the most important thing in a good RPG. All those games you like that don't have it anon? They're all shit.

>>3821768
Choices and consequences and build variety

>>3822810
no understand English, sir? i suggest more hours on Duolingo!

>>3823721
Nevermind him. He likes jrpgs

>>3822816
To be fair, it is pretty embarrassing for Avowed.

>>3823749
The dogshit combat in Elder Scrolls games is more embarrassing. As is Starfield.

>>3823751
Players currently on steam:

Starfield
>6470
Oblivion Remastered
>5036
Oblivion Original
>738
Avowed
>365

>>3823813
>high number = game good

>>3823823
Low number = avowed was a funny flop mogged to oblivion. I mean by oblivion

>>3823870
What in Oblivion was that?!

Not paying 60 dollars for it but the game does look fun, I look forward to buying it on cdkeys for 15 bucks in 5 years.

>>3823813
So you're saying Starfield is better than all of those games. Says a lot about your tastes.

>>3823870
This doesn't hold up either, because both Oblivion and Skyrim are consistently played by obsessed modders that just stare at naked women. If not for mods those games would be irrelevant.

Besides, you resort to logical fallacies, like any close-minded idiot does. Which is you even admitting you're wrong without realizing it. So concession accepted and don't need to reply to you anymore.

>>3824089
>So you're saying
that Avowed flopped

>>3821741 (OP)
The enemies and combat are more reactive in Avowed, which matter more than some clutter which is only there to get blown away during fighting enemies.
In fact they do have reactive clutter in some niche scenes, like the top of the lighthouse which I could cherry pick if I cared about spergs here.

Avowed is an ok game with some decent combat and builds, it's dragged down by woke/campy/reddit bullshit, and likely DEI hiring leading to poor design choices.

>>3824194
Absolutely none of us know that, you fall back on juvenile fallacies and openly admit you can't disprove anything.

But what else can you expect from a retard like you incapable of basic discussion?
Run along now, leave the thinking to people with functioning brains.

>>3824217
>likely DEI hiring leading to poor design choices.
Youre in the wrong side of history kiddo

>>3824217
>woke
I'm sure you can name like 15 things woke about it, right.

>>3824217
>it's dragged down by woke/campy/reddit bullshit, and likely DEI hiring leading to poor design choices.
Not only that, Obsidian has limited resources and they were all poured into Outer Worlds 2.

>>3822514
>>3822522
Too bad the map is empty, the NPCs are boring, and the combat is awful.

>>3824241
But enough about Skyrim

>>3824235
1. Silly color scheme reminiscent of pride parades
2. Furry race
3. Girl Boss 1 companion npc
4. Girl Boss 2 furry companion npc
5. Girl Boss 3 prostitute madam - literal hoe boss
6. Girl Boss 4 pirate boss that has the lightning pistol
7. Your head is a literal shroom
8. Harry potter wands
9. Corporate Memphis in dream sequences and ancient wall art
10. they/them pronouns in character creator
11. gay fish man's gay fishman boyfriend quest
12. Collect the abortion herb quest for hoe boss, you are scolded if you don't give them up
13. Cap'n Cuckbeard's comments, pic related
14. lantern jaw women in soldier/warrior positions abound, effeminate males do too
15. All the POE2 holdovers, woke goddesses, black italians etc.

I will say it isn't as pushy about ideology as POE2 or Veilguard and it's mechanically better (and finished) unlike POE2.

The DEI factors aren't just the content but likely Microsoft H1B hiring that give it a bit of a hollow feel, not as bad as Starfield but something is off, phoned in feeling, generic, whatever you want to call it.

It's not even a bad game, but it's their missed opportunity cost to have an actual winner in favor of the constant social justice barrage from the usual suspects combined with derivative hack development.

It might be one of the last of these kind of shitshows hopefully, since Veilguard flopped and owlcat dumped PF for WH, but who knows. Leftists aren't completely demoralized yet I suppose.

>>3824267
>1. Silly color scheme reminiscent of pride parades
Living lands was already established as being vibrant and strange from PoE1. Color != woke and claiming it is makes you a fucking retard.
>2. Furry race
Nothing to do with woke and already established in PoE1. Antho races is bog standard in fantasy settings.
>3. Girl Boss 1 companion npc
There are no girl boss companions. The one you suggest is actually very restrained and isn't pushy, which you would know if you played the game.
>4. Girl Boss 2 furry companion npc
See 2
>5. Girl Boss 3 prostitute madam - literal hoe boss
>6. Girl Boss 4 pirate boss that has the lightning pistol
Be specific, so I can tell you why you're wrong and retarded.
And also, if it's a gang boss and they wouldn't behave like a "boss" it would be retarded, monkey.
>7. Your head is a literal shroom
>8. Harry potter wands
>9. Corporate Memphis in dream sequences and ancient wall art
You really have no idea what woke is.
>10. they/them pronouns in character creator
Irrelevant, you can choose not to use it. Basically all modern games go with bodytype 1/2 and shit anyway, who gives a shit.
>11. gay fish man's gay fishman boyfriend quest
Fags have been in games since forever, but apparently they're not woke because...?
>12. Collect the abortion herb quest
Again, you have no idea what woke is if you think abortion is woke.

i don't even have the energy to reply to the rest when you already failed at literally everything so far, while making it clear you have zero idea what woke is.
No surprise you're a mega retard.

>>3824281
absolutely did not read. go fuck yourself

>>3824281
You seem angry that I was able to come up with 15 so easily but admittedly I just skimmed your delusions and denials.

>>3824281
Also don't put words in my mouth since the original criteria was woke/campy/reddit which all those things certainly are but in your reddit rage you only seem to see the word woke. I find leftists have a problem where they use this reductionist thinking about everything.

>>3824290
>>3824291
>>3824293
>get told
>resort to logical fallacies
As always. Stick to the mentally handicapped play area where toddlers like you belong and sperg out there. Leave adult discussion to the functional adults.

>>3821741 (OP)
How come they still haven't ported these animations to Skyrim yet

>>3824298
>"they/them isn't woke" but he wants to use big boy debate words like fallacies

You're a joke, you should understand this sooner rather than later in your life.

>>3824302
>he thinks cherrypicking isn't a logical fallacy
Good little retard.

Care to explain how antho races is woke? How wands are woke? Mushrooms on a head is woke? You know all that full blown retarded you IGNORED? Plugging your ears is something legit tards like you do.

>>3822027
>>3822027
>>3822048
Oblivion is also a bad game despite having this. It's paper thin when it comes to the RPG elements. Having physics doesn't change that, especially since maybe two dungeons have traps with rolling boulders or logs, and there's a mission where you drop a stuffed head on a dude to kill him (you don't actually see it happen, he just dies).

>>3824301
because they suck

>>3824231
Oh what's the matter? Is the baby gonna cry?

If Starfield had Avowed's poor player stats, you'd be here talking shit. Too bad you can only cope and seethe.

>>3823813
>it's not as popular as those super popular franchise games
so?
avowed is definitely far from an actual flop and is doing about baseline steam numbers
for comparison another AA rpg released at the same time window
remember when retards were making calls obsidian is going to get closed after avowed "flopped"?
yeah, no
you are never right about anything, because you are a literal retard

>>3824241
>Too bad the map is empty
>the combat is awful
you are literally making things up
>the NPCs are boring,
some NPCs are boring, but then again this holds true for bretty much all games

>>3824320
>If Starfield had Avowed's poor player stats, you'd be here talking shit
I'm not sure if you are a real bethestard or if you are pretending to be one
either way, no
I never think about Starfield, I'm not interested in learning anything about Starfield, I'm not interested in discussing Starfield
I just don't fucking care about Starfield at all

PS
in fact I never cared about a single bethesda game since fallout 3, no, not even skyrim, that shit is just boring, I'm never playing it, and I never going to care

>>3824427
>I never think about Starfield, I'm not interested in learning anything about Starfield, I'm not interested in discussing Starfield
> I just don't fucking care about Starfield at all
> PS
> in fact I never cared about a single bethesda game since fallout 3, no, not even skyrim, that shit is just boring, I'm never playing it, and I never going to care
Kek

>>3824425
>for comparison another AA rpg released at the same time window
Tainted Grail
>1941
Avowed
>299

>>3824429
>released at the same time window
son do you have troubles reading the calendar or something?

>>3824320
You're clearly the overemotional one here, otherwise you wouldn't be back pedaling and goal post moving so hard (hint: people that know they're wrong but don't want to admit it because they're emotionally fragile do this a lot, i.e. you).

>>3824425
Don't argue with retards. They think active steam player numbers are relevant for single player rpgs people play, beat and move on.

These people do not care at all about how good or bad games are. They probably barely even play games, they just schizo post for attention on 4chan.

>>3824425
>remember when retards were making calls obsidian is going to get closed after avowed "flopped"?
in the background microsoft actually closing a bunch of studios might I add
pretty obviously they are quite happy with obsidian

>>3824833
What people don't realize is that Obsidian makes games that review well, don't need huge budgets, can work on multiple games at once, don't need 10 years to make a new game and their games sell well enough. That is very valuable to have.

Meanwhile look at Bethesda. Starfield was in development for 8 years and came out as a mega flop. Imagine if their next game came out with 8 years or more dev time and was another flop like Starfield.
That is lightyears more costly and worse. With a company and structure like Bethesda, basically every single game needs to be a banger homerun.

>>3824842
Avowed began development in 2018 and came out 2025
>>3824761
>You're clearly the overemotional one here
Avowed
>132 players
Dragon Age Veilguard
>550 players

I'm posting numbers and observing all the cope you come up with

>>3824869
>Avowed began development in 2018 and came out 2025
Not active development. Pre-prod is entirely different. Starfield also had way bigger team and budget. You're not even countering anything, which you seem to think you are.

>>3824869
>let me not discuss op or the games to post a logical fallacy while pretending anyone gets upset
Whatever helps schizos like you stay close-minded and sleep I night, I guess. Or maybe you're just desperate for attention, which is more likely. So basically, no more (you).

>>3824888
>Not active development
So you're trying this cope.

(In truth, Avowed had to be rebooted after wasting 2 years of development)

>>3824895
>retard quoting meaningless numbers has no idea how game development works
Every time, kek

>>3824896
>Even so, it was still failing to coalesce. By January, the studio had decided to replace the project’s leadership team and reboot the game.

>This came as a shock to the Avowed team, which consisted of 80 people who were preparing to enter production. Now they would have to develop a third vertical slice and essentially start over from scratch.

>“Normally if you’re stepping back and reevaluating your creative direction, putting together a new vertical slice and revised production plans, you would do that with a very small team,” Patel said. “We did not have a very small team at that point.”

>>3824899
But it ended well
>Obsidian isn’t saying what’s next for the team, but Patel said she wants to keep directing games. The idea of something new is appealing, she said, but it seems more likely she’ll be building on Avowed’s foundation for expansions or sequels.

>“Now that we’ve built this wonderful world, and also built this team strength and muscle memory around the content and gameplay in this world, I’d love to see us do more with it,” she said.

Oh wait, Carrie Patel left Obsidian

>>3824896
Don't reply, he's only here to shitpost and attentionwhore. Not discuss or even stay on topic.
You can spend 10 hours and he will keep attentionwhoring with the exact same shitpost reply. Like a bad comedian with only 1 joke.
Ignore him and he will be desperate enough to seek attention in another thread.

>>3824899
>this came as a shock to the Avowed team, which consisted of 80 people who were preparing to enter production
>>who were preparing to enter production
Do you even read what you post, or just mindlessly copy-paste and hope nobody else does either?

>>3824903
>Avowed, the ambitious role-playing game that they had been developing for more than two years, was going to be rebooted.

>>3824906
>>who were preparing to enter production

>>3824908
>Avowed, the ambitious role-playing game that they had been developing for more than two years, was going to be rebooted.

>>3824909
So if they were "preparing to enter production", how could they already be in production? Riddle me that.

>>3824910
see >>3824902

>>3821741 (OP)
Avowed is garbage but holy shit this bait is somehow even worse.

>>3824910
>So if they were "preparing to enter production", how could they already be in production?
They had been in development for 2 years.

>>3824918
I accept your concession.

it's like /vrpg/ is trying really hard to be worse than /v/ and /b/ combined

>>3824923
I accept your concession.

Now, if you're all done with coping about..

>Avowed enjoyers
No such people exist. I have seen precisely one (1) jewtuber "defend" Avowed by saying "erm, it's not as heckin' bad as the RACIST ANTI-WOKE CHUDS CLAIM!!", simply for contrarianism and anti-anti-woke street cred. It's PatricianTV

>>3824931
Plenty of people like Avowed, despite your headcanon. The most common praise is the combat being the best first person RPG combat system to date.
Level and world design is also solid. Some quests are good. Decent amount of reactivity. Art direction for the world is pretty good. List goes on.

But unlike you, some people don't form some juvenile camp culture where you attack or defend something based on who made it or what will make you cool on 4chan. Amazingly, they follow this concept of playing a game, enjoying it for what it is and then moving on.

>>3824951
>EEERM, JUST PLAY THE HECKIN' GAME CHUD
No, i will not mr marketer man. The artstyle and color palette is disgusting and nauseating to me, and Pillars of Eternity sucked ass. I don't need to see shit to smell shit.

>>3824931
>only le funny people on youtube matter
>>>/v/

>>3824957
The point i was making was that Avowed was so shit that not even the industry shills that shilled Outer Worlds could bring themselves to praise it.

>>3824955
I didn't tell you to play the game, shitposter. But basic reading comprehension is not something you possess, as you just demonstrated.

>>3824958
Which isn't even a valid point, just deflection and something you made up. but clearly you are just here to attentionwhore, so why bother trying to be reasonable. Especially when you don't even know how to read.
Final (you) and all that. Just don't come crying about not giving you the benefit of the doubt later.

>>3824958
>>only le funny people on youtube matter
>>>/v/

>>3824899
can you stop acting retarded?
>80 people who were preparing to enter production
it is pretty clear that this means a full team of 80 had not been working on it yet up to this point at least

>>3824931
nah there are plenty of reviewers who didn't care for the rage-bait train
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iItqUdHTNpU

>>3824966
Be easy on the retard. He doesn't know what pre production means and desperately wants to defend Starfield.

>>3824966
They were moving from the “pre-production” phase into the “production phase”. Hope this helps.
Video games were better when they were made by a half-dozen nerds fucking around.

>>3824971
and 4chan was better when it was a niche board for intellectual mavericks and not sub-105 IQ retards who feel they need a space to say nigger such as yourself, so what is your point

>>3824966
It means they had been in development for 2 years and had to reboot.

>>3824979
this might be news to ignorant people like you, but a game is not in development in pre production. that's when you sit and talk about what the game should be and do research.
it's like saying a house is in production while the architect is still doodling on a piece of paper or that dinner is being made when the chef hasn't even gone out to shop the groceries yet.

>>3824971
>>3824979
>implying they had 80 full time employees working on pre-production
you gonna keep up the "i'm stupid" act I'm gonna stop replying to you

>>3824983
>>3824985
Avowed started development in 2018.

Cope away

damn
this level design talk has made me want to replay the game
but I'm waiting for the NG+ to be included with the 1.6 patch
which is only scheduled to release in september

>>3824991
It's ok Emil, there's probably someone out there that liked your Starfield game.

>>3821741 (OP)
Skyrim has 0 reactivity besides the guards' small comments, why would you even compare them on that? It's one of the things I hate it for.

I have never played a game in my life because I could knock bread off a table in it

>>3824976
>and 4chan was better when it was a niche board for intellectual mavericks and not sub-105 IQ retards who feel they need a space to say nigger such as yourself, so what is your point
This was always Something Awfuls retarded little brother, kiddo. I am 100% certain that you don’t remember those days. You may not have even been alive then.

>>3824931
>PatricianTV
Watched some Oblivion boomer roasting this guy about "having to minmax(Attributes)" in Oblivion but was still weak as hell because he was playing in a convoluted way. I will always side with spreadsheet autists over retarded fags.

>>3822514
>notice 3 climbable points of interest in the distance to spark the player's interest?
YAWN

>>3828212
I too prefer Todd's
>see that mountain? you can't go there

Did anybody notice how the guy shilling Dreadfire 5 years straight on /VRPG/ suddenly dissappeared when Avowed came out?
Do you notice the strange similiarity between this anon relentlessly trying to defend Avowed and him coping about "nooo gay pirates totaly aren't us trying to ram our gay fetish down your throat"?
It's funny when you don't even need forum names to identify some of these troons.

>>3828265
Maybe you should stop being a tinfoil schizo when the only obsessive one here is you. Not like me saying this will help your medical condition.

>>3821752
Video games are literal toys for children you fucking loser lol

>>3828493
>the analogy completely flew over his head
Maybe stick to playing with childrens toys, that seems to be the limit in terms of complexity your brain can handle.

>>3828495
Video games are flashing lights in your picture box that are designed to give your brain dopamine and waste your time. The only purpose is for people to have fun. There is a reason millions like skyrim and not whatever tranny game this is nobody has ever heard of. Your "analogy" is retarded, was the intended message for you to receive

>>3828497
>still doesn't understand the basic analogy
>doubles down on his schizo shitfit
ebin, even a child knows to ask when they don't understand something. no no, go ahead and keep sperging out, you do you.

>>3828565
Why am i expecting a manchild on vrpg who thinks he is an rpg scientist to do anything but what you are doing now lol

>>3828638
hey anon, what's 1+1? this is the level of basic you consider science and big brain.
you still didn't understand a basic analogy. you're such a mental toddler you can't even ask for clarification and instead choose to sperg out even harder.
it's ok to admit you're retarded and need to be spoonfed something everyone else understood.

>>3828641
>um reactivity doesnt mean the game reacting to what you do it means when i get to hecking speech check 100 the final boss and it makes it so when i talk to the town guards they call me silver tongued devil
Do you think the "point" youre making hasnt been regurgitated 100 times on this board in the last 3 days? Skyrim still beats every other game at this

Youre a manchild loser im going to reiterate btw

>>3828761
>still doesn't understand a basic analogy and is too much of an autistic manchild to admit he doesn't so someone can explain it to him

>>3828853
>he cant understand my deep compelling metaphor about the trve qualities of games designed for 12 year olds

>>3821741 (OP)
slopgame

>>3832111
Samefag.

Avowed is just what an average game looks like. I'm not particularly offended that it isn't designed to be played for 600 hours, though it was overpriced. I miss the days when there were just a ton of normal fucking games that came and went and it wasn't a scandal.

>>3824951
>Decent amount of reactivity.
This game has ZERO reactivity in any shape or form.

I figured a way to make this game way more immersive, disable the hud. If you're playing a melee character it's basically useless. You'll know you are low on health when the edge of the screen turns blood red, running out of stamina is pretty fucking apparent when your character starts to breath heavy and wont do shit. Only indicator I have on is the red skull that tells you the enemy is dead and not just stunned. Makes combat way more fun when you actually have to pay attention to things, enemy positions and such. All the little details suddenly pop out of the world.

tldr. fuck you I like it turn off the hud bitch

>>3832805
If your opening statement is a disingenuous biased lie, you better not be hoping for a serious reply.

>>3824281
>Basically all modern games go with bodytype 1/2 and shit anyway, who gives a shit.
People who don't want to clarify their gender beyond how they present.

>>3836532
If you want to waste energy getting triggered over a game during character selection referring to the body types as 1 and 2 then you go ahead. I'm not that thin skinned and easily triggered or petty pointless shit.

>>3836556
Getting triggered over it NOT being body type is even thinner skin.

>>3836563
Both you and those fags are thin skinned. You should form a club.

>>3836261
>mace in the back
When will RPGs stop putting weapons in the wrong places? Do they put boots on the hands and helmets on the ass?
It's not like it's secret knowledge exclusive to hisorians expert in an extremely niche and specialized field ffs.

>>3836563
If it's important enough for multi-billion, multinational investment companies to reward the hiring of consultants telling you to replace the simple and natural male/female choice with an absurd "body types" counterpart that doesn't make sense it's important enough for me to complain.

>getting triggered over what has become global industry standard and is the pettiest thing ever to get angry over
Imagine being this entitled, spoiled and mentally immature.
Now imagine not being it. Feels good not being an overemotional manchild, right?

>>3836953
Too scared to quote my post, troon?

>>3821752
>Your approach to games is like a child playing with toys.
Lmao. Hate to break it to you, but vidya is literally toys, anon.

>>3836965
Desperate for (you)? Quite sad. Then again, you are a manchild. So it is to be expected.
Regardless, point has been made repeatedly and never disproven. You are factually a thin skinned overemotional manchild.
Now please, if you want another (you), you need to come up with some better bait next time to humor me.

>does dumb immersion-breaking subversion that’s completely pointless and unnecessary and adds nothing to the game
>heh, why do you even care? Imagine caring about this. U mad bro? triggered, snowflake? If you don’t like it, maybe you should start your own federal reserve and start giving out billions of ESG dollars for propaganda, huh chud??
Stunning and brave.

>>3836999
>+160 posts in
>anons still missed the obvious meaning of the statement

The incredible stupidity present on this board never ceases to make me laugh. Like the other idiot before you, you will now deflect instead of admitting you didn't understand what was being said.
I'll be nice though, here's what that post meant since you're very slow
>reactivity != physics in a game
>basic physics has nothing to do with game reactivity
>in most games with physics, it has no impact on gameplay and is purely visual
>making the case that smacking bread around means skyrim has incredible amounts of reactivity comes across as desperate, if that is the pinnacle of 'reactivity' the game has
>in roleplaying games, when people talk about reactivity, they talk about their roleplaying decisions having impact. like if you choose to kill a king, the world reacts to it. the bigger the reaction, the stronger the reactivity
If someone made an RPG where the only """reactivity""" was smacking bread around and otherwise ignored any and all actions you did with your character, who you killed, who you helped and so on it would not have good "reactivity" in anyone's mind. Including people on this board.
It's a stupid premise made by a very stupid and desperate person.

>>3837022
You sound mad.

>>3837019
>beginning of the game has you choose body type 1/2
>this breaks anons immersion for the rest of the game
Impressive levels of autism. I suppose you also ignore all the other immersion breaking things inherent to games. Like leveling up, becoming encumbered and unable to walk after going 0,01kg over your supposed carry limit, not being able to walk up a 45 degree incline and sliding off, not being able to interact with most things in the world like doors that are uninteractible, and so on.
But the least immersion breaking things of all? Why making important NPCs immortal by just making them take a knee for a few seconds and then stand up.
No anon you're right. I bow to your unequaled autism.

>>3837025
Not at all. I love calling out idiots for their own stupidity. Feels real good.

>>3837019
Holy buzzwords/10

>>3837025
and I get that, it's a bit irritating you having to explain somewhat obvious things to mouth-breathing retard

he is right though

>>3837026
>more gaslighting

>>3824281
Based response, ignore the dimwit

>>3822409
>the best combat system in a first person RPG
Is Tainted Grail

>>3822785
Poor bear.

>>3837033
>let's use buzzwords i don't even know what they mean to deflect from me not being able to counter anything that anon said
If the type 1/2 thing is so incredibly immerion breaking for you, then the actual immersion breakin stuff (which I listed examples of) should definately be much worse for you.
That is, if you actually value immersion?

I'm beginning to question wether there's two LLMs trained on a data from some extreme autists rambles having a bitching fight in this thread. No way that shit is organic. We're doomed.

>>3837554
I see no reason to continue feeding (yous) to that faggot since he's obviously duplicitous and arguing in bad faith.

>>3837555
>bad faith

It's called poking holes in your own arguments and logic. Something you clearly don't like. But that's your fault for not thinking things through before typing. So you have no one to blame but yourself.

>>3837554
I'm sure the random shitflinging just happening to be when it was on page ten was purely a coincidence

>>3837881
The week-old bump was this guy talking about the hud: >>3836261

Bits and baubles falling around are like dynamic shadows. They aren't important, but they should be a given in a modern 3D game. This is no different than people shitting on Bioshock Infinite for having worse lighting than FEAR. A lot of little things like this make it feel like graphics are going backwards visually despite becoming more demanding, very shitty.

>>3837946
That's not a fair comparison. Fear took place mostly in small confined spaces, allowing more resources to be dedicated to it's lighting, plus the darkness was part of the game's core design of horror. Bioshock takes place in larger environments and also isn't a horror game, so the devs prioritized other things.
You're right that visuals are getting worse recently but your example isn't the best.

>>3837946
>They aren't important, but they should be a given in a modern 3D game
no, they shouldn't and that's why they mostly aren't

>>3837946
The moment you allow actual interactible items, weapons, consumables and such be affected by physics you will not only severely increase performance demands but create ton of potential gameplay issues.
Gear flying away by the physics during combat so they become hard to find. Items flies off edges, into lava, etc. Quest items getting lost. List goes on.

It's not a question if you can or can't do it, but should you do it and why and is it worth it? The answer is almost always no, unless it's relevant to the gameplay.
In the case of Skyrim, it does absolutely nothing worthwhile with the physics. Meanwhile immersive sims like say Dishonored and Prey do way more with it, because the gameplay is more built around those kind of interactions.

Plus, physics is not reactivity.

>>3837946
>they aren't important
Correct.

>>3828565
>>3828641
You are a Jeet, aren't you.

>>3821741 (OP)
As someone who hated Avowed, I disagree with you. It didn't suck because it was missing interactive physics. It's not like being able to hit a bread roll and have it fall would have fixed the game. It could have been good without physics, but it was just a bad game. People just use interactive physics as an easy thing to point out.

>>3821741 (OP)
I really couldn't care if I can set in motion a whole bunch of physics calculations to mess up a table. I'm simply not going to play the game, since it costs triple what it is worth

>>3838071
>People just use interactive physics as an easy thing to point out.
No, they comment on it because they haven't played Avowed and don't know what the weaknesses and strengths of the game are. So they focus on what some tiktok or youtube short video showed them, knocking bread around.
Quality threads and discussions on this board. You can really tell people are RPG enthusiasts here.

>>3838186
>So they focus on what some tiktok or youtube short video showed them, knocking bread around
I believe the origin of the webm in question is gmanlives bloke who had several incidents of shilling for obviously flawed games and taking a PR hit for it
that made him happy to ride the avowed hate-trend started by muskbois when M$ didn't give him a tip + tax, so he could "redeem" his reputation a bit in the eyes of saars
a sidenote on muskybois
lmao can you believe what a prominent figure he was just less than a year ago before he made a fool of himself on several occasions, the H1B visas, the salute, being obviously high in public, the PoE2 "gaymer", all the doge fuckups, losing Trump's favor etc
What a ride man what a ride!
and the hilarious part is he probably still has some of those fanboys

PS
jesus christ, the buzzwords, I'm close deleting everything I've just wrote
fuck it, posting as is
meme gaymer gets meme posts

>>3838218
I have no idea who any of those people are, but the Avowed hate did not feel organic.
People could have complained about not having a fucking light source in caves, the UI not really having a good middle ground between being cluttered or just turning it off (boss HP takes up a massive amount of screen, but it isn't something you can individually disable. Assuming that hasn't changed since I last played anyway), forced companions in a first person rpg with a lot of exploration, a lack of some major Pillars enemies that were mentioned in the living lands (trolls namely, but mature spores instead of just sporelings is also a major one. I think Vithraks are supposed to be there too), certain weapons like pikes (you can literally play someone who was in Tall Grass, but there's no two handed spears), a lack of other race body types, etc
I think it's an okay game in spite of everything, but people talking about how you can't knock bread off the table there being no consequences for taking food from a table or whatever are just out for ragebait clicks

>>3822505
oh i get it, you want to play mobileslop looter shooters. it's just weird you posted the thread on /vrpg/

Weird West is the immersive sim/rpg you fags want but I never see you guys talking about it. You go looking for games that don't have the things you want in your wrpgs.

>>3838226
>you want to play mobileslop looter shooters.
unironically those are the ones where loot can dissapear so you need a dedicated box in your base to automatically store and spit out loot that you couldn't find, flew of a ledge or something

so that seems more your thing

you want choices and consequences why dont you live life instead of waiting for a game to program it in

>>3840054
wrong thread?
this game has no lack in C&C situations [some meh some better]

>>3821741 (OP)
still better than troon vegas.

>>3822537
projection
try again

>>3822544
I will now buy your game

>>3842827
I will now download epic when they give away your game for free

>>3836953
>standard
you are a tranny, noone cares

>>3842862
Since it’s such a petty and minor meaningless thing, surely they are fine with going back to male/female for sex, right, and locking voice options, and removing pronouns? It was the industry standard after all, and it doesn’t matter and so no one should be upset by it.

>>3840048
>unironically
Learn English.
>where loot can disappear
Irrelevant. You want convenience, and it doesn't get more convenient than shit you may want to pick up being impossible to lose. Which - needless to say - isn't a feature that belongs in an actual RPG.

>>3843318
>shit you may want to pick up being impossible to lose. Which - needless to say - isn't a feature that belongs in an actual RPG.
>actually is a feature in actual RPGs released even before anon was born
wdhmbt?

>>3822912
Lol wtf? Who coined the term reactivity? That doesn't mean anything. You guys are retards or bots.
>interactive environment
His idea^
>extremely strict
Your idea^
Neither of these has ever nor will ever be called "reactivity". Stop using normie terms to explain what is already extremely well defined. You guys sound like bots or retards or bots programmed by retards.

>>3844954
>Who coined the term reactivity?
Game developers, so it has an actual clear meaning. It doesn't involve physics objects like OP thinks it does.

>>3824505
>>3824427
samefaggin hard today hmmm

>>3824833
well once outer worlds 2 is out microsoft wont really have a reason to keep em around, pretty clear they want out of the gaming industry

>>3824910
>So if they were "preparing to enter production", how could they already be in production? Riddle me that.
preparing to enter development of the reboot, whats hard to understand about this?

>>3845201
>pretty clear they want out of the gaming industry
No, they want out of the console making business. They want to pivot to publishing and game pass service only. To keep game pass varied and appealing you need to fill it with stuff, that's what Obsidian is there for.

>>3821752
Reactivity also isn't a choose your own adventure flavortext.

>>3822494
>Giatta
>Yatzli
Jeet slop names = Jeet slop games

>>3822409
So few cared about this that its literally the most mentioned thing about avowed dumb ass.

>>3845265
thats also what every studio theyve closed in the past 2 years was for

>>3836953
>Forced to eat woke shit
>Calls it industry standard
At some point they will just rape your ass and you will just let them for free.

>>3845279
>thats also what every studio theyve closed in the past 2 years was for
No.
The studio and project closing that happened is what happens after any corporate merger or buyout. They let people go to compensate for all the money they spent to make it look better in the books and investor meetings.
Any studio or project that survived this latest big cut are ones they value (for now). So unless Obsidian keeps delivering several flops they'll still be around.
Since Grounded and Grounded 2 is doing well for them, at worst Obsidian would be downsized.

But as it stands, Obsidian are in the green.

>>3845282
Maybe you should stop being as thin skinned as the woke toddlers you hate and people would take your complaints more seriously.

>>3845286
only 90 retards playing this game so its rather clear who won.

>>3845275
why not? anything that significantly changes the experience depending on player's past choices falls under reactivity, that includes the story changing in a text adventure. physics might also add significant reactivity, if for example, you're playing a lumberjack simulator and the tree decides to fall the wrong way so now you have to deal with the consequences. so you can argue that being able to punch the bread off the table is only truly "reactive" if, say, an NPC gets pissed off and starts attacking you for it.

>>3845598
First game sold over 5 million, so you totally have me convinced only 90 will play this game. Great deflection, really sells that you're a thin skinned toddler.

>>3845611
I wouldn't be shocked if barely anyone is playing it at the moment. It's been out for a while, there's no sale or anything I'm aware of that would give more people a reason to touch it, and if anything there's reason to hold off since a bigger patch is supposed to be coming out soon going by that roadmap they put out a while back

>no other relevant rpg on the horizon except bloodlines 2 (lol)
>thinks outer worlds 2 won't sell

>>3822785
>no reaction to spear attacks
lame

>>3845624
Spears are just long daggers, everyone knows this. They do piercing damage which means they have no impact or stopping power but ignore armour.

>>3845641
I don't actually remember how much spears stagger enemies in that game (as I didn't use them much and it's been a few months), but in that situation with the bear it had more to do with causing it to float with a spell and then using another one (more like ability tied to story choice than spell, but whatever) that has an extra knockback effect. I'm guessing something like that charge ability would do the same thing, but it would be harder to get the angle right

>spent like ~200 hours in Poe 1+2
>try out avowed
>dropped after just under 2 hours
just couldn't do it. i like the PoE world for the most part, but everything was just so fucking bastardized i couldn't help it.

thought about sticking it out just because garrus' VA is in the game but it wasn't enough lel

>>3845721
>>spent like ~200 hours in Poe 1+2
So you beat each game once?

>>3824951
Are you one of these people? Post your steam hours + chieves. Anyone claiming the game has any reactivity after the abortion quest is silly, It's "yes/yes(reddithumor)/later(endquest)"

>>3845752
It's amazing how much you people live under a rock. Maybe get off your echo chamber once in a while.
While you're at it learn to be less close-minded and not make your opening statement two logical fallacies if you want to be taken seriously. Because I don't waste time on close-minded irrational people.

>>3846681
I did like Avowed as well, anon. I just wish it was more of a real CRPG and that the dialogue wasn't so cringe. Obsidian is suffering from all the womeme writers coming straight out of litfic.

>>3845728
yes? that is usually what someone does when playing a game, a sequel and then a spin-off.

not sure what the point of your post is

>>3845605
can reading a text really be considered a significantly different experience?

Nobody criticises kotor for not letting you kill and steal everything. I flip my lightsaber around in kotor and it just passes through npcs. What gives?
It just seems like an IQ issue. Avowed bring first person fucked up peoples brains and they forgot what rpgs sre

>>3821741 (OP)
It's cool guys you were all right and good after all just like Luke Mockingjay and Katniss Skywalker and there's absolutely no such thing as woke propaganda in these games just don't go shoot up anyone else out there following the rules of civilization ok.

>>3846691
Shh don't upset the they/thems please for the love o

>>3822054
>my favourite genre - Reactive Physics Games
Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m_x81rqPK8

>>3822409
>the best combat system in a first person RPG is
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic

>>3850143
Yup, and it’s like 20 years old now. Sad. Still hasn’t been topped.

>>3821741 (OP)
Honestly, who is even making avowed threads, what next forspoken threads? The game doesn't even warrant shill posters.

>>3850236
The thread getting bumped with random shitposts after days of being ignored is the more suspicious part. This board seems too dead to justify shills to me though.

>>3850143
>designers pushing the instakill gimmicks so hard everything starts being a healthsponge midgame and on unless you are playing on Easy
no, not really
>>3850142
check this out
whoever did that is obviously trying hard in a very unbiased way sarcasm to play avowed as retarded as possible and to play dmm in the best way he can show it off as the epic ebin action packed thing
... and it's still looks just above "meh.. ok"

>>3850143
>Dark Messiah of Might and Magic
Nah, Avowed is better. Even just being able to quick swap between 2 equipment sets is huge. Even their later game Dishonored 1&2 improved on the melee combat from Dark Messiah.
Only thing really separating Dark Messiah from something like Skyrim are direction input attacks, which aren't really that useful. Each class is also locked to using 3 types of weapons, daggers, staff or sword & board.

>>3850142
I will never understand how these people do not have the mental awareness to realize they are not doing a fair comparison and go into it with a clear agenda, which then taints their video and makes the video useless.
If something really is shit, you compare it with something else equally. If it is indeed shit it will be evident. If you have to intentionally skew it so one game looks worse, you already admit your premise is faulty.

>>3850295
>Even their later game Dishonored 1&2 improved on the melee combat from Dark Messiah
Dark Messiah feels way better.

>>3824992
such masterfully intricate design. what genius auteur is responsible for this?

>>3850297
meh..
it's just milking views and engagement

>>3850289
The way he just decides to move around less and uses a weapon so shit that it gets stopped is pretty telling.

>>3837976
skyrim does it and is over a decade old and figured out how to have physics objects even if they did nothing. you give examples of games that have mechanics based around it that are good games, because the way you interact with the world isnt just
>casting damage or a buff
>talking to NPCs
>hitting things with a melee weapon

Dark Messiah had physics out the ass aswell as a magic system that affects the environment and how enemies interact with it and you. You mean to tell me we just have to accept that some videogames are shit because the graphics are too expensive and the genre needs to be generic?if in an RPG game i have a quest i know full well whatever item im looking for cant be "placed" anywhere but a chest or container because the game design itself doesnt even allow loose objects to sit anywhere making it a worse game overall

>>3850295
Dishonored doesn't have physics or a reactive environment outside of scripted set pieces.

>>3850297
Every game in existence now should have destructible structures, collisions between bodies with momentum and G forces, fire that burns flammable structures and spreads into a cataclysmic conflagration if enough fuel is present, and ample opportunities to knock opponents off of ledges and cliffs. Every game should be a physics arena.

>>3850738
You can play 7 days to die and have this, it even has some rpg stats, or used to, I hear the devs have been fucking it up to dumb it down or something.

It's a lot of fun, but you can see how it becomes hard to balance things when you can always warp the environment so much you can destroy the ai's abilities by removing yourself to a tower or cave. At some point quite often you can remove yourself from the game so much you're just playing minecraft in a bubble instead of anything with a challenge. Then they crank up the ai ability to do ridiculous shit to find you again and the whole game warps in that direction.

Or, static placements, which have worked for a long time.

I hope larian gets their environment interactions right with the production levels of bg3 one day. It's either too cheesy like DOS2 or barely there like BG3.

>>3847810
Can pushing a button really be considered a significantly different experience?

>>3850509
The fixation with physics when it literally doesn't matter and is not "reactivity" is something but idiots care about, especially when everything has already been said about that shit ITT. Read the thread. The shit you're talking about has already been adressed multiple times.

>>3850738
>Every game in existence now should have destructible structures, collisions between bodies with momentum and G forces, fire that burns flammable structures and spreads into a cataclysmic conflagration if enough fuel is present, and ample opportunities to knock opponents off of ledges and cliffs. Every game should be a physics arena.

Those are extreme performance hogs, which unless you want to bloat it to shit will mean you have less resouces to spend on AI, enemy count, graphics, lighting and a long long list of other things.
Unless physics is important for the gameplay, it's never a priority.

>>3837976
>Plus, physics is not reactivity.
The problem is devs gave up on getting there. Dark Messiah is almost 20 years fucking old and we have basically made no advances since then. It reflects the state of the industry. It's because the devs don't believe in roleplaying or gameplay. They believe in railroading a shit ass story down your throat. The only advances have been in graphics. It's a total slop factory.

>>3853700
>Those are extreme performance hogs
It's not 2005 anymore. People can do insane things with physics today. The reason devs don't push it is because it's hard to design gameplay around unpredictable systems. A lot of devs just straight up don't believe in physics or destructibility for gameplay. It's why every game is the same now.

>>3853700
>Those are extreme performance hogs
And the average gaming PC now has 64gigabytes of system ram and 16 gigabytes of floating point coprocessor ram and the floating point coprocessor now averages >4000 processing elements. The average gaming PC is what was considered a beowulf supercomputer in 2010, hell even in 2015 many university computing clusters equalled a current 32core 128 gigabyte Threadripper system.

So physics anon is right. War games should have only gotten better since Crysis, and magic games should have only gotten better since Dark Messiah, and a 'good' game like Dishonored is cordoned off into set-pieces like the level where you have to burn out the hornets nests from the building with strong alcohol fires or the time-clock level with two separate timelines to traverse. Both of those examples are cordoned off setpieces that don't affect the whole of the game, which is not how it should be.

>>3855232
>Both of those examples are cordoned off setpieces
That's the best way to do it, since universal destruction would be a pandora's box of unforeseen design problems.

Oblivion/Skyrim added object physics, and next thing you know quest objects were flung by fireballs into unseen or unreachable places, or players put baskets on top of merchant heads.

Add environmental destruction, and who knows how much infinite headache it would cause in a RPG.

I know my imagination won't cover all issues, because I have no experience designing quests or worlds with that range of possibilities.

Really, what if every structure was destructible

>>3855209
>It's why every game is the same now.
That has nothing to do with why "every game is the same now"
The reasons "every game is the same now" are the same reasons there were so many clones of successful games in the early years
And all those reasons boil down to people wanting to see returns on their investment

>>3855209
>It's not 2005 anymore. People can do insane things with physics today
You can, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a massive performance hog. If you add it, something else has to suffer. Be it visuals, lighting, AI or whatever else you choose to compromise on.
If it's not a meaningful and worthwhile addition, it's not worth doing.

>>3855232
>And the average gaming PC
Please just stop talking. The average PC players play games on is shit and most games aren't even well optimized. Slapping on performance hogs (which you can't even toggle, since object physics would always need to be active) for no good reason on top of this would tank performance. Unless you pulled back on something else like visuals, AI or whatever.
Now you might say "who cares" about that other stuff like AI pathing and behavior, but the same can be said for object physics.

You need to stop treating your personal boner for physics in games like Skyrim as some must have feature. I not once have given a shit about it or wanted it, in fact it tends to just fuck things up and become more messy to play. Not everyone wants what you want. I'd vastly prefer much better enemy AI over something useless like this, unless you think shooting an enemy in the head, waiting for their aggro to drop and say "must've been nothing" and you do it again is peak gameplay.

>>3855314
>Please just stop talking. The average PC players play games on is shit and most games aren't even well optimized.
Not only that but his evidence a problem with a high _computational_ complexity is not a problem is the amount of _RAM_
Imbecillus Regularis in the wild

>>3855261
>Really, what if every structure was destructible
Then I would burn down villages because evil characters would actually be fun to play

>>3855346
>t. not a legend

>>3853700
red faction guerrilla is forgotten...

A game from 2009 has better destruction and physic than 99.99% of modern games. Only The Finals comes close, unless anons here know some interesting games?

>>3855986
There's a difference when the main gimmick of a game is destruction and physics. The tradeoff was very simple environments that didn't even look great with not great AI.
Point is you add destruction and physics only if you need it. If it involves playable objects and items even more so.

If most people on this board was truly honest with themselves with what they think is the most important for them in an RPG, physics on objects wouldn't even be in the top 20 things.
I'd take a Bethesda game that's half as buggy, with better combat, better characters, better quests, better visuals that don't look 10 years old when it releases, better AI, better movement, better inventory and menu system, etc. over physics on objects any day.

>>3821741 (OP)

So, what's the challenge? You're a fucking waste of life.

>>3855986
The original red faction is older than half this board.

>>3855986
I haven't forgotten. I remember.

>>3855346
>I would burn down villages
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90X5NJleYJQ

>>3855314
>I'd vastly prefer much better enemy AI over something useless like this, unless you think shooting an enemy in the head, waiting for their aggro to drop and say "must've been nothing" and you do it again is peak gameplay.

Or, you know, you could just craft a bow that's not dogshit and instead is strong enough to kill the enemy in one hit...

>>3857116
Doesn't matter how strong your bow is if your arrows are just twigs.

>>3822544
>this makes the zoomer shit and cum his pants in excitement

2000 era basic physics are enough to blow their minds. what a grim era to grow up in.

>>3857798
Iliterate-san...

Fior potentially burning to the ground unless you root out a hidden cave of militants that you know are dangerous but have reasons to not blindly murder is a better moment of world reactivity than I think anything any Elder Scrolls game has done

So much of Elder Scrolls' "reactivity" is so shallow- there's no point to it other than pointing at it and saying "look at what you can do!" Like, it's a meme how comical the implementation of some of these systems is. You can murder people in droves but pay a fine and get off free. You can put a bucket on a guy's head and rob him blind. Quests rarely have serious, world-spanning consequences because that would get in the way of the sandbox. Like ooh look you can jiggle a tankard off of the table in Elder Scrolls but god forbid you throw a barrel at someone like dark messiah let you do in two thousand fucking six. Such dogshit

>>3859477
In my mind, Elder Scrolls isn't really about you "changing the world" (at least in the more short term, within your own lifetime sort of way), so much as treating it as your sandbox. I honestly wish Avowed was closer to that instead of forcing the envoy role and party members on you, but in the end they're just different games that happen to both be first person RPGs

>>3859480
Even there I don't think it's great as a sandbox, it's just that nobody else is making games like that on that scale. They just don't iterate, their systems haven't really gotten better or expanded in a way that feels like it matters.

Heard KCD2 actually did some interesting things with stealth and crime. That's why people holding TES and fallout up on a pedestal irritates me. We could do so much better.

>>3821924
People like OP make me think that Avowed isn't as bad as everyone said it is since shit like that is the main argument that I keep hearing around.

>>3821741 (OP)
Skyrim isn't an RPG.

>>3859526
Avowed is alright if you don't go in expecting Skyrim and don't go in expecting Dark Messiah, it's a simple little action RPG with some decent exploration and some fun choices. I found it pretty relaxing