Thread 3845480

Kino deaths only

wtf aerith dies in ff7??? thanks for spoiling asshole

>kino deaths only
>posts a death that occurs in a cinematic cutscene
What did he mean by this? Also spoiler that shit you fucking asshole

someone's going to post something that i'll have in my backlog and i'll be like FUCK

>>3845480 (OP)
the first cartoon porn site i jerked off to was called aeris dies. only real oldfags remember.

>>3845480 (OP)
aerith was a cheap ripoff of picrel

>>3845540
>female important playable character dying = ripoff
also found the death kinda meh after looking at it online. shocking =/= kino

It still hurts

>>3845549
>i watch youtube videos of games i don't play
Kill Your Self Now

>>3845580
that's why they call it "kino" games are just youtube vids to them.

>>3845580
>>3845581
Assblasted for no reason
No wonder nobody cares

>>3845549
>>3845540

If you play the remake on PS2 you can save her on NG+ if you do a bunch of convoluted shit. Very easy to mess up but it's so worth it. Nei best girl.

>>3845573
This one was weird because at first I assumed I'd fucked up and took too long. It felt like it wasn't supposed to happen.

>>3845596
calm down, kid. who cares who cares.

>>3845480 (OP)
For me is Galuf.
>Killed so hard the Phoenix Downs do nothing.

>>3845673
Such a pointless character.

>>3845947
Agreed, really liked the way the game handles it

>>3845947
It's nice to see the party at least make a futile attempt to use all your healing shit.

>>3845830
boomer

>>3845480 (OP)
>and the eight divine-
>FOR THE LOVE OF TALOS shut up and let's get this over with
>COME ON I haven't got all morning
Bro mogged the whole of helgen so hard even alduin felt it in his dragon soul

>>3845726
I dont want to play a remake.
Any mod that ports that content to the original game?

>>3845947
Best death scene in any Final Fantasy game by far
>Why won't you die!?

>>3846081
hello.
i love you.

>>3845947
Galuf's death is so important to the story, too. The plot practically telegraphs that it's coming, but it still hits like a truck because it's just a well-crafted emotional moment. But the second you step into that forest and hear the unique dungeon music, you should know that old man ain't makin' it out alive.

>>3846178
I forget how all the different translations handle it, but I'm a big fan of Exdeath presuming that it's hatred or anger fueling Galuf and not love. Exdeath is such a big, dorky, generically evil baddie that he literally cannot grasp the concept of love and how powerful it can be. And that is ultimately his undoing.

Everyone always jokes that JRPGs are about "killing God with the power of friendship", and if that's true, then FFV is like the poster child.

Hinawa (Mother 3)
>>3845483
>What did he mean by this?
You know, "kino" derives from "cinema", so it kind of makes sense to me.

>>3846229
It's moments like this really chaff me when people say V doesn't have a good story

>>3846246
>when people say V doesn't have a good story
I put the game on the back burner for years because people always referred to it as the "great jobs, bad story" game. But it turns out the story and especially the characters themselves are brilliant.

I think one of the big reasons people overlook V's story—apart from the fact that most of the west played it after having stars in their eyes over FFVII and VIII—is because very little of the drama is directy tied to the plot. There's nothing going on like the mystery of Cecil's origin, or Kain's consistent betrayal. Instead, the drama is all about the characters finding each other and growing together. This game's biggest moments are the little things like Bartz and Galuf sharing a beer in Regole, or Krile bonding with Mid and telling him to take care of his grandfather—the kind of stuff most players just sort of mindlessly gloss over because "nothing's happening".

>>3845480 (OP)
I think the shock of this one is what made it so good for me. I remember thinking "oh she just got punched really hard in the stomach, she'll be fine" and then the next scene is her dead and laid out on a slab. Getting punched really hard in the stomach can kill a human! I'm shocked that a video game let it happen.

>>3846253
>>3846246
Its just because the game likes to be fun with jokes and lighthearted stuff.
I at least remember more moments from V than IV. I did play IV-V-VI at the same time and I barely remember IV stuff.
Feels incredibly overrated. Found it interesting how FF2 has so many similar bits which made me question the praise IV got.

>>3846253
>But it turns out the story and especially the characters themselves are brilliant.
>This game's biggest moments are the little things like Bartz and Galuf sharing a beer
Come on dude, this wanking over ff5 is getting too far lol

>>3846333
>This game's biggest moments are the little things like Bartz and Galuf sharing a beer
But it's true. Once Galuf gets his memory back, his whole pathos is that he's wracked with guilt over sealing Exdeath in Bartz's world 30 years ago, and Bartz is struggling with not wanting to get attached to people because he fears losing them. Galuf is gutted when he's forced to leave their world behind because he loved traveling with his new friends, and he feels even more guilty when they all leave their homes behind to come help him in his own world.

The scene where Galuf and Bartz share a drink in the pub is both of them being honest with each other in that "say it without saying it" way that men do. They're not sticking with each other because they feel some obligation to a greater cause—they're sticking with each other because they love each other.

If paying attention to the emotes and dialogue in the game sounds too much like schizo rambling to you, that's very much a (You) problem. I won't apologize for paying attention and appreciating the story the developers portrayed. And if you can't appreciate it, I just kinda feel bad for you, lol.

>>3846336
>But it's true. Once Galuf gets his memory back, his whole pathos is that he's wracked with guilt over sealing Exdeath in Bartz's world 30 years ago, and Bartz is struggling with not wanting to get attached to people because he fears losing them. Galuf is gutted when he's forced to leave their world behind because he loved traveling with his new friends, and he feels even more guilty when they all leave their homes behind to come help him in his own world.
>The scene where Galuf and Bartz share a drink in the pub is both of them being honest with each other in that "say it without saying it" way that men do. They're not sticking with each other because they feel some obligation to a greater cause—they're sticking with each other because they love each other.
>If paying attention to the emotes and dialogue in the game sounds too much like schizo rambling to you, that's very much a (You) problem. I won't apologize for paying attention and appreciating the story the developers portrayed. And if you can't appreciate it, I just kinda feel bad for you, lol.
You don't have to explain, it's a simple story for kids. Nice that it stuck with you so.

>>3846351
>it's a simple story for kids.
Some of the best stories ever written were for kids. I feel like people often confuse complexity for maturity. They'll try to tell some convoluted mess of a narrative filled with symbolism and deep themes but won't actually have a proper story to frame things around.

>>3846259
and undercut by her look-alike daughter joining the party right after the funeral

>>3846259
>Getting punched really hard in the stomach can kill a human!
That's how Houdini died

>They'll try to tell some convoluted mess of a narrative filled with symbolism and deep themes but won't actually have a proper story to frame things around.
I rather have something ambitious than rehash of the same sunday morning cartoon storyline again. Doesn't matter if it was not perfect. Was those cartoonish stories perfect either?

>>3846333
It's the FFV schillzo

>>3846531
Yeah I figured

>>3845493
ow my lumbago
t. 06 newfag

>>3845480 (OP)
FE4
rocks fall etc

>>3845573
Same
What would have happened if Chaz died?

>>3846351
Yeah that's kind of the whole point. But it's a simple story for kids that's masterfully told as a video game, and not a movie or a book. FF5 is arguably one of the best examples of storytelling in a video game of all time, but most people are such midwits who are incapable of basic analysis or simple empathy, and somehow FF5 got the reputation of being the "bad story" game.

>>3846362
>. I feel like people often confuse complexity for maturity
too true. FF5's themes are all extremely simple and I won't deny that. But it's how effectively they're portrayed relying on minimal dialogue and 12-pixel tall sprites that honestly makes it truly amazing.

>>3846336
>The scene where Galuf and Bartz share a drink in the pub is both of them being honest with each other in that "say it without saying it" way that men do.
I love this scene. It's very clear that one of Galuf's biggest regrets is that he didn't stay behind with Dorgann after they sealed Exdeath in another world. Then Bartz, Dorgann's son, willingly leaves his own world behind to help save Galuf's. It's an absolutely brilliant moment that captures the concept of generational grief and love.

>>3846975
>one of Galuf's biggest regrets is that he didn't stay behind with Dorgann after they sealed Exdeath in another world.
And then you have to also consider that if Galuf hadn't returned to his own world, he wouldn't have been there to raise Krile after her parents died trying to save a wind drake. This parallels Lenna's backstory where cutting out the wind drake's tongue would have saved her mother's life, but that wind drake saved her own life so many times. It's why I have to laugh when people criticize the story and say the wind drake is a deus ex machina. That's the whole point. The game is telling you that investing love and compassion into your family IS a deus ex machina. The devotion of each new generation is capable of making up for the shortcomings of the last. People should simply enrich each other for their own benefit.

I'm honestly not surprised this message is increasingly unappreciated as time passes. Early 90s Japanese media is peak in terms of good morals and good vibes. That's alien to us, now.

>>3846982
forgot pic, derp. This game has so many important moments, and some of them are optional. This is truly a game that rewards diligence and attention.

>>3846982
>I'm honestly not surprised this message is increasingly unappreciated as time passes
it's the American notion of "MUH RUGGED INDIVIDUALISM". All American media has glorified the individual and downplays the support they had and its importance. It's not surprising that an FF game that's all about proper empathy and support is not valued by the western world.

>>3846839
>What would have happened if Chaz died?
It died as soon as they started protesting at the mayor’s house.

>>3846362
>I feel like people often confuse complexity for maturity.
This comment triggers the jrpg faggot

FFV shillzos try to defend their game story without resorting to "appeal to emotion" challenge

>>3846259
It helps the villain that his fists are stronger than any magical and sentient artifact swords he could find.

>>3846336
There was one scene where Galuf asks to stay behind to wait for his friend when he knows he's not making it or something. People really don't give FFV enough credit at all
why does this game have a schizo now? it's crazy.

>>3847127
Any time someone praises something at all it's a schizo.

>>3847330
schizoschizos see schizos everywhere because they don't actually understand what the word means.

>>3846089
As racist on his alt? As he was one main

>>3847127
>There was one scene where Galuf asks to stay behind to wait for his friend when he knows he's not making it or something.
Another one of the great moments of the game. This is one of the multiple times the game shows that Bartz's fear of heights is something he fabricated in place of his actual fear of being alone. Here, he knocks out Galuf and freefalls down the side of the exploding tower to save his life because he wanted to climb down to save his friend who was already dead. Later, when Exdeath destroys his hometown, he jumps out onto the bow of the airship just to curse, then flies it like a madman until Faris and Lenna calm him down.

This game is so blatantly emotional, I don't understand how people lack the empathy to absorb it. Humanity is doomed, lol.

>>3847330
This is a symptom of modern times. People are becoming stupid of their own volition, to the point that any time they see a long-form paragraph with proper formatting, they're going to accuse it of being AI. We're tangibly de-valuing the concept of thought. It's fucking crazy.

>>3847409
Truth bomb: Literacy shouldn't be encouraged.

>>3847435
No, not for your own mental well-being. Certainly not. Literacy is a curse that most people lack the conviction to obtain.

>>3847448
It's basically forming a vector for people to rewrite your brain if you don't have innate defenses. It was never intended for the masses. All these retards with phones are abused children. The horror of this is too great for most people to comprehend.

>>3847463
What's crazy to me is how fast we are slipping. Decreasing standards of education and the increasing influence of AI and social media echo chambers are normalizing extremely harmful coping mechanisms. The problem is when people let digital influence override their compassion for actual human beings.

Games like FF5 are prophetic—literal pleas to make sacrosanct the cornerstones of humanity, wrapped up in flashy fairy tale presentation using the media of the time. This is basically how the good faith of mankind subsists.

>>3846839
>What would have happened if Chaz died?
Game would have been better

This is why people call you FFV schillzos. The world doesn't revolve around you on your moral high horses that you use to justify why your favorite game is superior

You used your biases to feel a moral superiority to everyone else. That is just pathetic

>>3847330
>>3847338
sounds like a schizo not wanting to be called a schizo, sorry

>>3847500
>>3847501
I value life and compassion above all. I will always be superior to you. Nice try, Satan.

>>3847505
>Life and compassion
More like an excuse to impose your beliefs and magical thinking to other people.
Yes, call other Satan just because they don't agree on your forced evangelism.

>>3847507
>More like an excuse to impose your beliefs
My belief is that all of god's children are equal. Why would you try to oppose this?

>>3847508
You shall know a tree by its fruit.

>>3847509
>You shall know a tree

>>3847508
That is a weird rhetoric. Sounds like a populist way of talking without making any meaningful point.
>>3847509
Hello schizo II.

>>3847495
>Decreasing standards of education
The point of education isn't elucidation, it's creation of a servile class. Ignorance is the point. This is what people are, your conception of humanity is a fairytale.

>>3846178
I like how the FFV OVA barely feels like it is related to the game it's based on, but at the same time you sort of get a vibe that as they were producing the episodes someone on staff was playing the games and making sure to fix things. Like how when the ghosts of the heroes of FFV first appearance, it's just Butz/Faris/Lenna/Galuf and there's no Krile, but finally by episode three they acknowledge she exists.
But anyway, I always liked how the first time you see the ghosts Galuf feels most like he was based on his Amano art, and then when they had to draw him at the OVA's end the one guy who was playing the game stepped in and go "No, make him HUGE AS FUCK this guy FUCKING SOLOED EXDEATH"

This is the first death of a party member in the Final Fantasy series

a kino death/sacrifice that gets underdone in DLC by going "all you did was pave the way for the real badguy to take over the world"

>>3847670
Shadow Hearts 3 didn't have any DLC.

Hinawa

>>3847687
wrong game

>>3847526
>second pic
at least krille looks cute... idk wtf they did to faris.

>>3847971
probably tried to anime the Amano art

You don't know what party member deaths are unless you've played Double Moon Densetsu.

There are 13 or 14 party members (can't recall precisely) They all die in the end except 2 you go through with the last dungeon with just those two, one of those is the hero, I sure hope you level upped the other one

>>3847522
>your conception of humanity is a fairytale.
Yeah, that's the whole point of fairytales. So you finally caught up. I'll take that as a compliment.

>>3847526
>the FFV OVA
As a legitimate follow-up to the game it kinda sucks, but it's still a fun watch with the kind of flare that simply doesn't exist in anime anymore.
>you sort of get a vibe that as they were producing the episodes someone on staff was playing the games and making sure to fix things.
Probably not an unlikely scenario. As I've read, Madhouse had the rights to make an original OVA and simplre requested some material from Square so they had a starting point, and Square basically gave them FFV because they felt it was their besst, latest work. They likely got started right away, only referencing the major plot details.

I do appreciate how they worked some of the OST into the score. And the credits theme specifically feels like a song that could have been from the OST, even if it wasn't. I think my favorite detail, though, is how Cid and Mid are automatically considered to be a part of the Warriors of Light—it's the kind of thing people seem write-off when they play the game, but if you actually put the major plot points on paper (as Madhouse likely did), it's impossible to ignore how important they are

>>3847522
>This is what people are, your conception of humanity is a fairytale.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPS5Yw_YsHA

>>3848628
The point of fairtales is to create pliable humans.
See >>3848974
materialistic noble lie cuckshit.

>>3845480 (OP)
He was with us from the beginning... R.I.P.

>>3845947
>characters are so desperate to save him that they pull out spells and items you might not even have

>>3846324
Final Fantasy IV's storytelling is a mess.
>Yang is being brainwashed
>Kain is being brainwashed
>Golbez is being brainwashed
>Zemus is (sort of) being brainwashed by some giant space hatred monster
>everyone dies and comes back later with zero consequences, aside from Tellah, who died pointlessly seeking revenge against someone who was brainwashed
>also, we lost all of the crystals
>but it's okay because there are more crystals
>we also lost those crystals
>but it's okay because there are more crystals

>>3847330
Liking things is schizo. You have to call things woke and slop like the rest of us jaded fucks.

>>3850283
Well, people who played it when they were young praised it because it was probably one of the first games they ever touched with the story at the forefront—there were clearly defined moments of tension, betrayal, romance, mystery, and tragedy, and they were all tied to memorable setpieces which moved along at a good pace. People who criticize the story often cry about all the "fake-out deaths", but to me that was the whole point—it's a fucking fantasy soap opera. The game even pokes fun at itself for killing off characters by faking you out with the death motif that one time when Cid just fell asleep. It still gets me every time.

The story isn't a masterpiece of complexity or emotion, but it's very big, bold, fast, and fun, especially by console JRPG standards in 1991. That context has been long lost, so from a contemporary perspective, it's easy to just see it as a bunch of stupid, melodramatic shit happening, then you go to the moon. But I can easily imagine the story of FF4 as a bonkers, late 80s anime OVA. It's got "Fist of the North Star" energy.

>>3850284
>Liking things is schizo
This is unironically where we're headed as a culture. If you're capable of displaying a passion for something with long-form thought, you're going to get accused of being a schizo. Or AI. Just keep your nose in your phone and get your dopamine hits from endless curated content feeds and 5-second video slop like the rest of us.

>>3850306
>People who criticize the story often cry about all the "fake-out deaths", but to me that was the whole point.
Very similar to people who complain about the wind drake always saving the heroes in FFV. That's literally the point. It's like watching Citizen Kane and getting mad that Rosebud was just a sled.


>>3850283
>Tellah, who died pointlessly seeking revenge
>that's_the_point.png

>>3847127
>why does this game have a schizo now? it's crazy.
>People really don't give FFV enough credit at all
You answered your own question. In all honestly, I play it up a bit just to troll, but at the same time I feel like the game doesn't deserve its reputation of being the "bad story" entry of its era. I put off playing it for a long time because of that reputation, but now it's my favorite FF by far, and one of my favorite games of all time.

And I like sharing my thoughts about things that I love. It's also nice when the odd anon chimes in and agrees. I like making friends.

>>3850400
All Final Fantasy games have fairly bad stories.

>>3850413
I've noticed that people who post SImpson's memes have fairly bad taste in general.

>>3846336
its okay anon, even if the haters dont agree with you, i do

>>3850400
>It's also nice when the odd anon chimes in and agrees. I like making friends.
this is the saddest thing i've read all week.
just a complete disconnect from the concept of what a friend is.

>>3850400
g onna be honest bro, ive never played FFV but your posts here have convinced me to give it a shot after not really liking IV at all

>>3850414
>>3850422
Oh no. You're right. I have bad taste and am sad and my need share my enjoyment stems from the fact that I don't actually enjoy anything and I'm desperately trying to convince myself. What have I been doing with my life?

Oh well. Guess I'll go home and play more FFV. Gonna start a new four job fiesta and stream it for my friend from high school who watched my last run, too—I got White Mage, Time Mage, Geomancer, and Chemist. Such a fun team. Just four squishy, robe-wearing ninnies with sticks who are ABSOLUTE BULLSHITTERS. It was a fun run, but I hope I get some melee this time around, lol.

>>3850427
That's cool, anon. I hope I haven't overhyped it for you. Even if you don't sperg out over the story like I do, it's still a tight game with great pacing and fun combat. It's honestly insane how much more polished it is than IV.

If you care, try patching the GBA translation onto the SNES version. It's definitely the best way to play, imo.

>>3850283
just say you hate the mind control trope.
also you forgot that kain had his own demons which made him easy to get manipulated.
rather have these themes than "jrpg party saves the world" without any intrigue whatsoever.

>>3845480 (OP)
Virgil from Arcanum

>>3850434
>toxoplasmosis brain
it all makes sense now.

>>3850699
>desperate to find some scientific explanation for how another human being could possibly enjoy something
this is not the flex you think it is

>>3850699
Kek

I think Crono's death was the hardest for me.

>>3851160
Based. I seldom bring him back in my playthroughs.

If you bring him back, he'll just die anyway in Chrono Cross, so there is no real point.

>>3850404
In terms of writing FF generally will have an idea for a scene or a twist or some other single moments but then will but little to no thought on how to connect them or what they actually mean in the long term so long as they actually happen. They're very scene and visuals focused. It's like a franchise that's cut for a trailer.

>>3846986
very strange how the simple contrivance of "AND I SHALL RETURN IN YOUR HOUR OF NEED" is seen as trite literally because some people can never conceive of doing something selfless enough to receive it. The self limiting behaviour of being a fuck constantly because nobody did anything grand for them first even in their FICTIONAL media. Everyone is weak so i have to be the only hero

>>3846982
>Early 90s Japanese media is peak in terms of good morals and good vibes.
I've heard it argued that this is in response to the Japan's economic crash of 1989, which was basically a bubble-burst that happened due to overvaluation of current stocks and commodities, as usual. A bunch of old men in charge who wanted their assets to keep getting more valuable without any thought as to how it would affect the market in a year or even a week from then—essentially, a refusal to invest in the future in favor of the present.

I don't necessarily buy it, though, because themes of family and uplifting one's progeny have always been pretty big in Japanese media. American heroes are the ones always depicted as lone orphans who pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, while Japan tended to emphasize the importance of guardians who give everything for their children, and the inherent superiority of the next generation.

>"You'll never get this gold hairpin."
>Gets gold hairpin.
So Kino.

>>3851610
I wonder how many players went for the hairpin on their first go, especially in Japan. FF5 was the first game that made the hairpin into a broken-as-fuck accessory that halves MP costs, and with 6's magic-heavy combat, that's really tempting. FF5 also was the first game to feature Lone Wolf, who steals a bunch of treasure you can never get back if you let him out of prison, so some players probably had a score to settle. But FF5 also basically pounds you over the head with the moral that you should always go out of your way to save innocent creatures like moogles and dragons.

There are so many little call-backs in these games that make certain moments carry more weight if you play them in chronological order with the previous entries still fresh in your memory.

>>3851619
I missed this scene the first time, and ended up picking up Mog in the world of ruin.

The second time I played ff6, I got my gold hairpin, not thinking I had killed Mog. When I got to the WoR, I realized I would not be getting Mog back. That had severe consequences as my WoR style back then was to use the Moogle Charm to grab everything and then go after Kefka. After deep consideration, I restarted my game. I was sad to not get my extra gold hairpin, but Moogle Charming was more important.

>>3851481
>The self limiting behaviour of being a fuck constantly because nobody did anything grand for them first even in their FICTIONAL media.
lmao, I used to play video games like this when I was an edgy, sociopathic teenager. I just viewed everyone as a potential enemy, and I was only in it for myself. I was the kind of retarded prick who absolutely would have said "yes" to the Dragonlord's offer of ruling half the world. In retrospect, I 100% understand and support why the devs made such a decision. If you're honestly going to put a bunch of time and effort into a game where you're supposed to play the hero, only to throw it all away at the last minute, then you deserve a fucking game over.

On a side note, I fucking love that DQ builders was essentially an alternate DQ1 universe where the hero said "yes".

>>3850283
>>3850598
>also you forgot that kain had his own demons which made him easy to get manipulated.
They all did. That's the main theme of the story, redemption.
Cecil gets full redemption from his dark knight ways, becomes a paladin, saves the world and is rewarded with a kingdom and blonde bride.
Kain gets partial redemption, proves himself loyal in the end, but enters self-imposed exile to purge his remaining demons before returning.
Darth Golbez has committed so much evil, his only reward is Cecil's forgiveness and right to return to "slumber with the lunarians." Which is basically the equivalent of "his soul is saved."
Zemus gets no redemption. He never repented, never asked for forgiveness, never did anything to atone for his sins. Evil consumed him. Zeromus is the physical manifestation of the evil within Zemus' dark heart. (This is why Zeromus says he "does not perish" and lives within the hearts of all men)

The mind control trope is a hack and fakeout deaths are overused but none of those things make the story "messy." It was just written for unjaded 11-year-olds in 1991 whose heads hadn't been filled with post-ironic youtube edgelord faggotry. Everyone I know who experienced the story untainted by prejudice loved Rydia's return. And it's ultimately just easier to explain something as "mind control" in the highly-constrained text of an 8 megabit SNES cart than to fully justify motivations of each betrayal. Lazy maybe, but not messy. If anything it's probably less messy than it would have been otherwise.

>>3851160
I remember playing CT blind when I was a teenager and not really realizing in my head that Crono was dead for good.
I was lucky enough about spending some time in the fair and getting that Crono standee/mannequin without even knowing if that would be important or not, so it became just another quest when the group decided to do the switching.
It was just at that point when they take that little window in the time continuum, that you see them pushing Crono out of the way and putting the fake one there, that it hit me -- how Crono isn't the "chosen one" like in other games and how the group would have kept trying to save the world without him, and it made me feel some strange sorrow in my heart that went away once I realized Crono was back.
Chrono Trigger isn't my favorite game and, honestly, I connected more with Lucca and Robo in the game, but I'd say that was a defining moment that made me pay more attention whenever I played games or consumed any other kind of media.

>>3851815
>It was just written for unjaded 11-year-olds in 1991 whose heads hadn't been filled with post-ironic youtube edgelord faggotry.
Well put. This is source of a lot of issues where modern opinions on 30+ year-old media is concerned. Everyone fast-tracked to being a cynical cunt without actually having any of the experience required to genuinely critique something in the first place. Not saying this wasn't an issue back then, too—certain parenting styles forced cynicism on children as well. But now people are learning to be dismissive cunts from talking internet heads as soon as they're old enough to hold a smartphone in front of their faces. It's grim.

>>3851958
>Everyone fast-tracked to being a cynical cunt without actually having any of the experience required to genuinely critique something in the first place
"You're not allowed to complain if you never experienced it in the first place"
But zoomers did, boomer
It's just different from your own type of suffering yet you just can't understand it

>>3851960
>"You're not allowed to complain if you never experienced it in the first place"
It's not that you aren't allowed. I just feel you shouldn't be a jaded cynic who is afraid of sincerity by the age of 16. It's not a sign of good mental health.
>It's just different from your own type of suffering
That's kind of my point. I don't think zoomers deserved to be exposed to culture the way they were. I legitimately just kinda feel bad for them.

>>3851967
>>3851958
>complaining about dismissive cunts
>on 4chan
>"it's the zoomers!"
Lol come on

>>3851960
The real problem is parroting criticism, especially half-assed story criticism from youtubers who maintain popularity through sacrifices to the algorithm god rather than true insight.

This goes for praise too, actually. As much as I hate seeing the shallow "hurr mind control sux" criticism of FFIV, it's also cringe to see people gushing about the story as if it's some kind of transcendental masterpiece and revolutionary moment in videogame history. It's a simple, effective redemption story that provides the structure to a simple, effective game.

>>3851967
I just wish the people interested in analysis and criticism actually had better examples on how to do it well.

>>3851976
>it's also cringe to see people gushing about the story as if it's some kind of transcendental masterpiece and revolutionary moment in videogame history.
>It's a simple, effective redemption story that provides the structure to a simple, effective game.
But that's exactly what makes it a masterpiece. It's extremely well-done, even if it is simple. It's okay to praise simple things and find beauty in them and revere them as "masterpieces". Stop living your life trying to gauge everything on your cringe-o-meter. They told an interactive story of love, betrayal, sorrow, and redemption using dumpy little-big-head sprites and bleep-bloop music and made it stick. It was something that was pretty rare at the time, and the effectiveness of it makes it highly enjoyable and worthy of praise to this day.
>I just wish the people interested in analysis and criticism actually had better examples on how to do it well.
You can't teach someone how to criticize by giving examples, lol. That's precisely how you end up with cynical cunts. Good criticism just comes from familiarity and context—with both the subject and literally everything else in the world. If you want to criticize JRPGs, you have to play a lot of them. It also helps to be familiar with Japanese culture and to absorb other media from the same cultural pool. I find watching a lot of 80s and early 90s era fantasy anime and OVAs can really help you understand the sort of themes and concepts the developers were aiming for—ideas and references that might offend or alienate Joe Schmoe, but would have been inherent to a 12-year-old Japanese schoolkid in 1991. Understanding the target demographic for a piece of media (and how quickly those demographics shift) is half the battle.

>>3851997
>using dumpy little-big-head sprites and bleep-bloop music and made it stick.
I think a big reason why people don't appreciate the utilitarianism of older jrpg storytelling is that they simply don't use their imagination. It's not that you have to imagine plot points, but rather, once the game gives you an indication of who a character is, you need to actually put yourself in their shoes and realize the emotional weight certain events carry from their perspective. Most people tend to forget or dismiss anything that isn't currently being waved in their face at the moment, which is exactly why JRPGs have turned into movies where you hold a controller and get told where to go.

Simply put, you have to allow yourself to feel empathy for 12-pixel-tall sprites from the get-go, and not act like a jaded cunt who can't feel emotion unless the game shows you a vividly-realistic expression with orchestral score in 4K HD with which to identify. Learn to accept a story on its own terms.

>>3852026
>I think a big reason why people don't appreciate the utilitarianism of older jrpg storytelling is that they simply don't use their imagination.
But I did have breakfast today

>>3852026
>put yourself in their shoes and realize the emotional weight certain events carry from their perspective
A good example of this in FF4 is Edward. Almost everyone who played FF4 back in the day HATED Edward: he's a stupid spoony bard who sucks in battle and cries like a pussy just because his kindgom got firebombed and his girlfriend died. Boo-fucking-hoo. But here's the thing—accept that and put that in context of what happens in the game. Despite being weak, he still puts his big boy pants on and gets shit done; he leads everyone to the Antlion nest, he flexes his political clout as a prince in Fabul to help the heroes' cause, and despite being incapacitated, he drags his busted ass out of bed to save everyone's life from the Dark Elf with his harp. He never allows his feelings of inadequacy to stop him from taking action.

I think it's a uniquely western/American/individualist thing to still shit on Edward just because he's a semi-useless in battle and "all he did was give us a tour and play a harp", as he still managed to accomplish things that only HE could accomplish. Despite being physically weak and wracked by grief, he stepped up and earned the respect of the party AND especially Tellah, who proudly refers to him as a son-in-law, after all is said and done. THAT is Edward's tale of redemption. It's not as glorious or dramatic as Cecil's or Kain's, but it's still very well-executed. Everyone on this board fucking wishes they were HALF the chad that Edward is.

>>3845482
her name is Aeris brainlet

>>3852046
Her last name is Gainsborough, retard.

>>3851997
>If you want to criticize JRPGs, you have to play a lot of them
Not necessarily.
Obviously you need to have played enough to have a feel for the differences and possibilities, but I also find that people who wind up playing a LOT of JRPGs sometimes wind up with low standards. The opposite of the cynic, they just consume a game then move on to consume the next game without particularly reflecting much on the experience.

>>3852035
>Almost everyone who played FF4 back in the day HATED Edward
Yeah we hated Edward but it's not like we didn't get his story or character arc in the end. It's not especially subtle.

>>3852059
The other vital part of the equation is to not be retarded. I didn't think I had to say that, though ;^)

>>3852035
Honestly this just frames you as feeling special that you appreciated Edward
When this is not just a thing that is unique to you, everyone that has a tiny bit of media literacy knows Edward is not that jobber of a character

>>3852059
>Not necessarily.
Yes they are. YSK there are people who said Persona 5 is the best JRPG ever when they only played that game?
>people who wind up playing a LOT of JRPGs sometimes wind up with low standards
Yes, especially if they think FFV deserves that much of a praise compared to VI or VII.

>>3852035
>I think it's a uniquely western/American/individualist thing to still shit on Edward just because he's a semi-useless in battle
lmfao
please put your cat outside

>>3852251
>media literacy
Bruh.

>>3852270
?

>>3852295
>?
Sorry, anon, maybe if you were more media-literate, you'd be able to decipher the implicit subtext of my post. Better luck next time.

>>3852295
that's a no-no reddit phrase to tryhards

>>3852296
Ok mr bruh. I thought you were smart enough to respond with something intelligent instead of being dismissive for no reason.

>>3852301
Says pot calling kettle black, though.

>>3851958
It's not as if I don't agree with sentiments when certain things are being rote and cliche but I do often have to stop and wonder what people experience all this for the first time must be like. Kids don't know all this stuff. They haven't played a millions games and know all the cliches. Everyone needs to experience it first somewhere. Of course I do give the caveat that even if you're sticking to basics you still need to do it well. Cliche isn't automatically bad but it's really easy to tell when someone is being lazy. For the records I don't think early FF was being lazy. They had more limits and I think they did an okay job.

>>3852276
>Not just dead but double mega dead.
Oh Legend of Dragoon. I could say 100 bad things about you but say 101 good things.

>>3852251
>Honestly this just frames you as feeling special that you appreciated Edward
I'm sorry you felt offended enough to perceive it that way. Another symptom of a sociopathic culture that reveres anti-intellectualism and finds any excuse to ridicule sincerity.

>>3852259
rent free

>>3852305
It's just another case of the bell curve. Kids enjoy these stories and characters because everything is new to them and they don't know any better, midwits hate on them because "such and such did it better" or "this is really nothing special", but when you grow up and have a bit more perspective, you can appreciate the work and thought people put into these games and realize how much effort it takes to create something from nothing. Even mediocre games don't happen by accident. A product created by such a small team with such a singular focus is very much a novelty worth appreciating, especially given how much the industry has changed.

>>3852477
“The first sip of the natural sciences will make you an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass, God will be waiting for you.” -Heisenberg

>>3852477
>It's just another case of the bell curve
Yeah I feel like I used to be a lot more aggressively critical about any perceived fault something might have when I was in my late teens and 20s but that honestly just became tiring as I got older. And it's not as if I think my standards became lower but you kind of just become more self aware about what htis all really is.

>>3852477
>rent free
roflcopter
what an ego

>>3852477
>Another symptom of a sociopathic culture that reveres anti-intellectualism and finds any excuse to ridicule sincerity
I'm sorry for you to be narcissistic enough to tell everyone you are so special for noticing themes in a story.

>>3852694
>he thinks we're talking about noticing themes
you should try actually being present in a conversation before opening your mouth

>>3852864
You should try being more humble

>>3852251
>everyone that has a tiny bit of media literacy knows Edward is not that jobber of a character
So not many people who play JRPGs? Got it.

>>3853305
You will be surprised to know people skip over text and just play them "for the gameplay".

>>3853312
I'm actually not surprised at all.

>>3853219
no need

>>3852253
Reading comprehension is a challenge for you?
>Obviously you need to have played enough
.
>especially if they think FFV deserves that much of a praise compared to VI or VII.
2/10 bad bait

>>3853578
>especially if they think FFV deserves that much of a praise compared to VI or VII.
>2/10 bad bait.
I meant it, God of Reading Comprehension.

>>3853305
>people who play JRPGs
Also known as: children. Congratulations, you are smarter than a 5th grader.

"Oh, Big Z is your friend is he? Let's put that to the test."

>>3848331
I love those pictures. Is it a breezy playthrough? I'm looking forward to a new nes jrpg. I imagine it's a Dragon Quest clone.

>>3852276
The boss fight right before this was a real bitch. Super difficult.

>>3853584
>Obviously you need to have played enough to have a feel for the differences and possibilities,
You failed to read this.
>I meant it
No shit, it means you're retarded.

>>3854401
Yeah thank god I am not retarded enough to be as narcissistic as you

>>3854548
>"Actually you're wrong, let me tell you why."
>"N-NARCISSIST!"
Someone learned their first big word, didn't they?

>>3855370
>big word
I read the story of Echo and Narcissus to my toddlers. They can clap it out. "NAR CIS SUS! Three syllables"

i remember watching my sister play p3fes as a kid and her crying when shinjiro died

>>3855371
Well at least your imaginary children are poised to grow up smarter than you, I suppose.

Yeah, I think this thread is done.

>>3855370
>>3855371
Two retards circlejerking each other.
Also clearly everyone in this thread knew you are a narcissist by the way you are judging people for having tastes instead of agreeing with your FFV obsession.

>>3855424
And then P4 and 5 completely lost their balls. I'm not necessarily saying that they would have been better games if Yosuke died in a ditch but it might have been nice if there was actually some consequence and tension.

>>3853593
That part was fucked up.

>>3855699
back when the Dark Side was actually The Fucking DARK Side and not the Socio-Economic Conditions Darkskin Side

>>3855511
>you are judging people for having tastes instead of agreeing with your FFV obsession.
Correct. You are wrong for not sharing my tastes. I thought I made this obvious by now.

>>3847670
> underdone in DLC by going "all you did was pave the way for the real badguy to take over the world"
I finished the base game last weekend and am playing the DLC now. Only episode Ignis and Ardyn left, are you referring to the latter? Guess I'll find out soon enough.

I've played FF7, 10, 10-2 and 15 now. They sure seem to like killing off protagonists, but that makes the story more memorable and sad.

>>3853593
>"Kotor 1 is such a boring story" say all the faggots too scared to go Dark Side

>>3855561
they should've shown that retard akechi blatantly dying on screen, that guy sucked