Thread 3850233

guys please i need help, what rpg games have the best wizard gameplay so i can really roleplay as a wizard. i'm at my wits end. I need to know what the best wizard games are.

For different reasons: Morrowind, Arcanum, Dragon's Dogma.
Morrowind and Arcanum because there is a lot of utility to your spellcasting. There are spells for every opportunity and they help a lot with your problem solving. It's not all about blasting things apart.
Fuck you for using slop, by the way.
Dragon's Dogma is the opposite: it's an action-rpg and the spells follow suit. But you will feel fucking powerful. Raining down meteors, summoning tornados. Even the smaller spells feel impactful. Some utility, but it's mostly various ways to blast things apart.

>>3850233 (OP)
>what rpg games
>have the best wizard gameplay
>so i can really roleplay as a wizard
Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim

Skyrim has the best gameplay and activities. You can get shouts to get 3 equipped spells on hand. Or staves. With alchemy, enchanting and books, you'll have enough reason to go outside and loot things.

>>3850237
is the picture i used ai? sorry i didnt know that if that was the case, is this picture better?

>>3850251
This one is a true classic.

>NOOOOOOOOOOO CAMERON YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO BE SWOLE AND A WIZARD
>ONLY I, FRAIL RAISTLIN, MAY BE A WIZARD
>REEEEEEEEEE I'LL KILL YOUUUUUUUU

>>3850233 (OP)
>role playing game games

>>3850312
For me, it's role playing RPG games.

>>3850233 (OP)
Underrail, unironically.

>>3850237
>DD(ogshit)
>best wizard
i'll keep the insults to a minimum, and simlly say that your WEG template is a really fancy way to sell "biggest fireball" spells as if they have anything more than WOW BIG spectacle going for them
various action rpgs have got to have the worst wizards in general, precisely because it all boils down to constant combat (limited to controller inputs like DD), discarding the problemsolving spells and bloating the spell list with "bigger lightningbolt" and "ice shards but they go in a diagonal trajectory that's a worth a different slot"
at least magicka doesn't waste your time with children's evocations before you can flashfreeze a motherfucker

any notable examples from the last five-ten years? no shaming the classics but i've played the bulk of them

>>3850237
KINOS DOGMA BABY!!!!!!!

might n magic 6/7/8
you have an armageddon which literally nukes entire map, ability to fly, turn invisible, walk water, steal souls, reverse aging, teleport and all shit imaginable.

>>3850411
Morrowind had the right approach. Magic should be customized by the player in 3D rpgs.

>>3850233 (OP)
Arx Fatalis.

>>3850657
Execution is shit and imho impossible to do right, given controller and mkb are completely different. Idea is awesome.

Going full wizard in Avowed was pretty fun

>>3850718
>Avowed
3 classes, lol

>>3850233 (OP)
Nox offers two takes - the summoner wizard(Conjurer) and the battle wizard(Mage).

Conjurer lets you control (and later summon) beasts that you got scrolls for, as well as having several clunky but extremely powerful spells.

Mage has spells for every situation (physics manipulation, crowd control, powerful direct damage spells, et c.) but is really unwieldy in the beginning and requires getting used to. Very stressful play if you ask me, you always end up barely making it.

>>3850578
>you have an armageddon which literally nukes entire map
Ultima 6 did that 8 years before.

>>3850719
There's no classes at all. It's just fun to fight completely with magic in it using wands and grimoires

>>3850732
You can mix and match archetypes?

>>3850233 (OP)
Baldur's Gate 2 is famous for its mage duels. You also get your own wizard's tower... well... it's more like a wizard's... ball. And unique qizard quests connected to it.

Arcanum did some interesting things, but it's a half-finished jank.
If you are into necromancy, there's a new pretty decent necromancy focused RPG. But it's indie and story focused.

>>3850771
>necromancy focused RPG
Name?

>>3850775
Necromancer's Tale.

>>3850294
Meanwhile, in the ancient papyri universe:
A mage class in enchanted full plate armor.
Heavy as fuck.
More metal means more room for enchantments, so a heavy tower shield is included.
Smart and tough, with intelligence and endurance in primary stats.
Strong enough to wear his plate armor all day. And carry his entire enchanted arsenal that he could live without but doesn't want to. And also his giant balls.
Enduring enough to fuck a harem of his cloned daughter-wives all day and night. Without taking off his armor.
Specializes in all the major magical disciplines. Excels at it.
Bends any magical and demonic creatures to his will. They can't fight better than him, but making your slaves fight for you is enjoyable.
Knows more about necromancy than necromancers themselves, but doesn't use it because he doesn't need it. And it stinks.
Hell, he doesn't even need his armor for protection. His clothes underneath are just as enchanted, and protective spells strengthen his skin like another layer of armor.
He even trained with a variety of weapons to flex his enchantment skills in close combat, though his abilities in classical destruction are in no way inferior to the best mages of this school. You know, those old lonely nerds in thin robes, incapable of lifting a staff, let alone a small wand between their legs.

>>3850233 (OP)
First off WRPGs are obviously better for this. Partially for thematic reasons, but mostly because spells are more likely to have uses outside of battle.

>>3850714
who the fuck would play arx fatalis on a gamepad

>>3850808
Talking about the system of arx. If some new game would use a system inspired by it, they would need to find a way to translate this to controller gameplay.

>>3850791
I was going to call bullshit on you, but what the fuck.

>>3850820
There were quite a few mages in media that needed str and con to 'handle' magic.

>>3850714
The execution is better than any other game unless you're talking about the drawing part specifically. Arx Libertatis solves the finickiness it had.

>>3850814
>translate this to controller gameplay.
Nevermind. Shit like this is why every PC genre has been gimped. We really can't have nice things.

>>3850294
>>3850791
>i need to be able to do everything better than everyone
why are wizard troons like this

>>3850578
>literally nukes entire map
Anything above chaff usually survives. It only does like 50+effective skill level so you'd be normally reaching about 80 at best.
>steal souls
Just IIRC dark magic damage to everyone in a specific cone that roughly matches what the player can see in the window.
>reverse aging
Alchemy only.
>and all shit imaginable
It's not that fancy unfortunately. They only could fit so many spells onto the two pages so beautiful visuals have artificially limited potential variety.
The games do give you a decent enough "powerful spellcaster" feel usually.

>>3851053
>Just IIRC dark magic damage to everyone in a specific cone that roughly matches what the player can see in the window.
Oh, and it heals the party by the amount of HPs equivalent to total damage inflicted, obviously.

>>3850233 (OP)
Masters of Magic.

My next indie game will have a heavy magic system. Much more based on fun spells than combat magic. Invisibility, fire, freezing, sleep, confuse, silence, stuff like that. If anyone has fun ideas to add, let me know!

>>3850971
This is a natural consequence of having single-character RPGs.
In a classical party-based RPG, roles are divided among the characters. The rogue sneaks and steals, the mage casts spells, and the warrior protects them and takes damage for them. Their various weaknesses and limitations are good for roleplay.
The downside is that the NPCs are incredibly stupid; giving the player control over them kills the immersion and degrades the RPG to mere tactics, while multiplayer ruins the game.
If you have friends who are good at roleplaying, you can just play a tabletop like DND or Pathfinder and have more fun than any VRPG could offer.
In a single-character RPG, the protagonist is forced to overcome most of the obstacles on his own, so he have to be a jack of all trades at least to some degree. And all such games are combat-oriented, so you have to fight a lot. As a result, you simply choose the flavor for your killing machine, and magic gives you the widest range of tools in and out of combat.
Also, magic in TES is a massive overkill for any gameplay task, rendering most skills useless, but the lore constantly dumps warriors with near-divine powers into the world, lol.

Wizardry, duh

>>3851053
you are coping for some reason, you can do armageddon=>rest=armageddon to nuke everything. you can nuke land of dragons in mm6 if you use merged mm 6/7/8.

anyway I challenge you to find game which has more powerful magic. in terms of power and control nothing matched mm in my experience. ability to fly alone goes way beyond what other games allow. seriously, what other rpg gives you ability to fly beyond any borders of the map?

>>3850971
you are stupid
>warrior
should fight better than anyone, hit better than anything with sword
>rogue
should sneak and lockpick better than anyone
>wizzard
should have spells which are btter than anything

how its hard concept to understand? also magic in game is inherently limited by mana.

>>3851088
>In a single-character RPG, the protagonist is forced to overcome most of the obstacles on his own, so he have to be a jack of all trades at least to some degree
Not really in TES. Even if there was need for magical effects, they're available for warriors and thieves in the form if potions, poisons, enchantments, scrolls, staves, even powers and blessings. The only exception is lockpicking.

Being good at everything is of course something that people naturally want. In TES, it's just a matter of how much time you're willing to spend.

But it's not a real necessity, it's just, let's say tempting.

Magic Research 1 & 2 are both "idle games" with strong active components where you acquire spells and level different spell schools. Lots of fun and diverse builds.

Orb of Creation is also an idle game. You ponder an orb.

Archmage Rises has you play as a single Mage, but you explore the map, acquire spells, develop your Wizard Tower, and interact with the world sort of like a Mount & Blade w/ tactical combat. Strong recommend. It's an indie title.

The Atelier Ryza trilogy is not necessarily about being a wizard, but there's a lot of overlap due to the immensely indepth alchemy system. Tons of solutions.

Rift Wizard 1 & 2 are roguelikes focused on being a wizard with a ton of spells and magic items.

Path of Achra has some fun wizard & non-wizard gameplay.

Siralim Ultimate is a creature collector with tons of class fantasy.

MiniHealer isn't wizard per se, but it captures the Cleric fantasy extremely well.

Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 1 & 2 have some fun mage gameplay.

As does Conquest of Elysium 5.

The immortal Neverwinter Nights PRC mod has some of the most extensive buildcraft I've ever seen in a game.

>>3850233 (OP)
It's not an rpg but in my years of searching i never found anything better than magicka

Thank you guys for the recommendations I’m very interested in wizardry archmage rises, and a bunch of other games u guys recommended, I’ve been wanting to scratch the wizard itch for a bit now :)

>>3851088
>VRPG
CRPG. Computer role-playing game.

>>3850233 (OP)
Owlcat's Pathfinder games have vastly reduced spell lists, compared to the tabletop (of course, because the tabletop has literally thousands of spells published, but more importantly most of them wouldn't really work in a video game, and many of them would be complicated to program, so Owlcat mostly implemented the simple and easy "do damage or debuff the target" type spells.... which is a HUGE fucking problem, in my opinion...), but still definitely strong wizard gameplay (especially if you install the item crafting mod for Kingmaker).
Pillars Of Eternity 2: Deadfire has good wizard gameplay, but not really much roleplay that specifically illustrates "I'm a wizard".
>>3850237
Dragon's Dogma 1 and 2 are far and away, BEYOND and ABOVE the best "action adventure" roleplay and gameplay for combat mages in any game ever. Skyrim could fucking never, Elden Ring stand the fuck ASIDE, because there is actual game design coming through. For real, once you play DD2 you look at ER and you feel a profound sense of sickened disgust at how Fromsoft apparently has no fucking idea how "throw a blue pebble" is NOT fucking magical. At fucking all. Fuck.
That said, Oblivion's spellmaking is better balanced and more rational than Morrowind's. Morrowind is too limited with HUGE modding work to expand and implement real content to really say it's good for roleplaying as a mage, but the setting is more interesting.
Underrail's psionics were often meme'd as "cave wizards", and it's not such a bad way to summarize it. A pure psi build is definitely an extremely distinct gameplay and you will absolutely get to roleplay the fuck out of your fantasy as a weird psychic mystic.

>>3851131
Isn't Archmage Rises still in very very very very early... "access"? Is he ever gonna even get it mostly feature complete? The whole thing just looks like vaporware slop little better than you might find on some shitty RenPy VN...

>>3851884
Tales Of Maj'Eyal has quite a few "mage" type classes of many kinds and of course modders have added more, but it's a classic roguelike.
So if you're interested in very old school roguelikes, Elona and ADOM are also well worth it.

>>3850771
Is that a model of one of the Icewind Dale 2 portraits?

>>3851088
In a classic tabletop party RPG, the fucking spellcasters can do anything and make other classes obsolete once they get a few levels. This is a natural consequence of having a spell list that has to be populated with stuff that isn't just clones of each other. DND and Pathfinder you've mentioned are particularly bad with this.

>>3852765
>the fucking spellcasters can do anything and make other classes obsolete once they get a few levels
Absolutely incorrect. The harsh limits on the number of spells per day is already, all by itself, a sufficient explanation of how incredibly fucking stupid your claim is, and why it's been so tediously debunked millions of times over the last fifteen years since that little bullshit meme started, on image boards and discussion forums all over the internet in every language.
But if you want a more exhaustive explanation about other reasons why, anyone here can just go read the spell lists of whichever system you want.
You might as well claim that skill checks make all other classes obsolete, since, well, you can use skills to do anything a spell can do. Fucking stupid as fucking fuck.

>>3852770
>t. wizard
Your stance is so stupid and contrary to the "deboonked" common opinion it's not even worth arguing with. The spell limit is an absolute non issue in vancian systems as encounters are usually decided within the first two rounds and no GM is going to fit in more non-combat challenges than you have spells left within any given session. Indeed, anyone here can read the spells lists of whichever system and arrive at the same conclusion as millions of other players before them, except for you. Fucking prestidigitation has more utility than anything on the fighter's skill list and it's a single level 0 cantrip. Fucking stupid as fucking fuck.

>>3852773
You were dismissed. Stop talking. You don't have to prove to everyone here that you know you were fucked by someone who actually knew what they were talking about, but you did it anyway. Just go. No one's gonna play with you.

>>3850233 (OP)
DOS2

>>3852765
>tabletop party RPG
Well, at least there's always some discussion between the master and the players, so everything can be as balanced or OP as they want.
Same thing with recent changes and other woke shit – we and our DM just completely ignore it.
Tabletop games have a multi-layered system of protection against any shit you don't want to see.

But you have a point. Magic tends to be like superpowers, but while you're usually limited to one power and build your entire character around it, an average mage in most systems has at least several powers and can learn way more.
There are limitations, but if your DM doesn't use them creatively and doesn't give other players a chance to shine, the game quickly becomes dull.
But you know what? The last time I saw a total min-maxer, it was some crazy multi-class with stealth and melee (but no magic). This one character could solo like 95% of combat, and the player always larped hard in social encounters.
Everyone at the table was happy, and their characters regularly stole the spotlight.

There are many ways to break the game. Anything you can use can be used against you. The key is to let the game break in a way that both the players and the DM enjoy.

>>3850237
>Dragon's Dogma
>rpg

zoomer's opinion discarded.

>>3852801
It has everything you need in an RPG, though. Romances, item crafting, escort quests.

>>3852805
Uhhhhh... I mean, I guess, by that logic Tic-Tac-Toe is also an RPG. DD2 is a great game. It's an absolutely fucking awesome fun time game. But it is not an RPG. It's an adventure game. The name of the genre DD2 belongs is "adventure". It is not alone in the genre, it is accompanied by games like Skyrim, Elden Ring and the Witcher. None of which are RPGs.

It's ok to like RPGs while also liking other kinds of games. Other kinds of games you like do not have to be labeled as RPGs. Words have meanings. Stop misusing words. When you intentionally misuse words, you prove you are acting in bad faith and everyone listening is justified in shutting you the fuck up.

I tried to break all this down into simple little words and short concepts so you might be able to understand. Let us know if you're still having difficulties with all this. I know it's hard. I know it's complicated. But you can do it. But if you are talking you're not listening. You need to put on your thinking cap and learn from this, ok?

>>3853132
>The name of the genre DD2 belongs is "adventure".
Adventure games are like, maniac mansion, secret of monkey island, Indiana jones and the fate of Atlantis, day of the tentacle, zoom zoom.

>>3853138
>Anon pretending to not know about action aventure games

this is a troll at this point

>>3853141
Did he say “adventure”, or did he say “action-adventure”, you incorrigible dipshit?

>>3853150
action-adventure is a subgenre of adventure you zoom zoom

>>3853160
>action-adventure is a subgenre of adventure you zoom zoom
Zoomers don't know what the fuck adventure games are, as evidenced by this reply chain. Adventure games fell out of favor before they were born.

>>3853132
>The name of the genre DD2 belongs is "adventure". It is not alone in the genre, it is accompanied by games like Skyrim, Elden Ring and the Witcher. None of which are RPGs.
They're called action RPGs

>>3850233 (OP)
No other game can top Magic Carpet when it comes to making you feel like a god of magic, not even Morrowind's exploits.

>>3851884
If you're interested in classic roguelikes, I can definitely second ADOM and Tales of Maj'eyal >>3852229
Both have extremely satisfying wizard gameplay. ADOM lets you get to the point where you know so many spells and can cast them so frequently you're essentially a mobile magic turret who can constantly throw out bolts in all directions and you no longer need to attack with weapons at all. It also has some great utility magic, like buffing yourself so you can see across an entire dungeon floor or carry an entire dungeon's worth of loot with you at once.

TOME is a lot more 'action'-based, with cooldowns for spells/abilities and stuff, casters start off very squishy but once they start gaining power rapidly become incredibly strong and fun to play, and I'm talking "clear an entire room in once cast" strong. It's like playing a turn-based Dragon's Dogma.

>>3853679
>No other game can top Magic Carpet when it comes to making you feel like a god of magic
I’ll see your magic carpet, and raise you Populous.

>>3852801
You can choose a class in it, it's an RPG.

>>3853743
Are games like Battlefield and SW Battlefront RPG's?

>>3853726
You forgot the most important thing about ADOM's wizards... the Wish spell.
The game literally has a parser that will attempt to interpret what you respond with when you cast the spell and the game then asks "What do you wish for?"
Like. You write a text string in response to that. And the game will try to fulfill your wish.

>>3853220
... No. They're called Adventure games. For the specific reason that "action RPG" is a neologism that attempts to obfuscate what they are in order to expand target audience.
Just like how the Democratic Peoples' Republic Of Korea is not a democracy or republic. Just like how the National Socialist party was not socialist.
The original term for the genre was "Adventure" and that was correct. It's ok if you don't like history, but you cannot just confuse your ignorance with knowledge and then try to bluster and bullshit your way past someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

>>3853743
So Team Fortress 2 and League Of Legends are RPGs...? Hmmmm....

>>3852765
yeah this shit ass rumor started as a white tower forum post by a salty adnd player and turned into a huge meme beacuse third edition was not played under scrutiny for a long time. People who DM'd open tables saw martials shine

>>3853928
league is an RPG

>>3853947
Yeah, the tangerines with Bob doodle their plump mothers and ticklenuts. Tessle thid mick nottens blorp dorp doop dop.

>>3853947
>>3853928
Correct

>>3850780
This looks pretty good. Is there anyone here who's played it?

>>3853926
Good point. I didn't mention it originally because it's not exclusive to wizards, but it is a very cool mechanic.

>>3850233 (OP)
The NWN modules Almraiven and Shadewood were designed for wizards. Not extremely long or extensive but I really wish more RPGs made playing a wizard feel like this.

>>3853927
>It's ok if you don't like history, but you cannot just confuse your ignorance with knowledge
It's hilarious how the various derivations of the term RPG sends retarded nominalists into frenzy. On any other day I'd be happy to shit on Dragon's Dogma, but your posts are way too arrogant. Guess that's what makes them such quality bait, pretending to not know what words or genres mean is just obnoxious. I mean what's even the point of lying about Bioware's forays into the console market when it's still in living memory?

P.S. every videogame-related term is a neologism you pretentious idiot.

avowed has the best magic combat in a first person game to date

>>3859058
He's not wrong. What are your alternatives?
>Arx
dude runes lmao (that don't register properly half the time anyway)
>DMMM
Cool but most of the fun is in environmental interactions, and it's not balanced very well for a pure mage build, you're encouraged to play as a hybrid for most of the game.

>>3859063
Fucking Clive Barker's Undying has better magic combat than Avowed.

>>3859075
You know, if you were going to try and bait that obviously you should've picked something more popular like Skyrim or Gothic.

>>3859087
No. Get Clive'd.

>>3859094
It's about 20 years too late for viral marketing to work on your shitty games, Clive-san.

>>3859096
True, but for each time your modern game of choice fails where the game from 20 years ago succeeds, the metal chain I'm going to strangle you in hell with gets one extra barb on it, faggot-kun.

>>3859108
I don't think Undying can be counted a success in any sense of the word, mechanically or otherwise.

>>3859115
And it still gets better magic system then avowed.

>>3859121
It doesn't, though.

Didn't one of the Two Worlds games let you summon anvil storms?

>>3850233 (OP)
Controversial I know, but Tokyo Ghostwire is a good one is you just want to focus on combat/stealth.

you won't get much roleplaying from Might and Magic 6-8 but the sorcerers there have crazy powers and utility

>>3851299
This, criminally underrated and fun game

>>3850820
and yet you can still put him in his place absolutely no problem
god I love morrowind

Dominions 6 has OP autistic magic (like a 800 page manual lmao)

>>3851062
The ultimate wizard game.
It's really not an RPG though. It's a turn-based strategy game with a tactical combat system.

>>3852765
Not sure why you have so many wizard copers (like >>3852770) in your replies when this is a well-known and accepted fact about DnD and related systems in a tabletop space. Hell, Monte Cook (a designer for 3.x) openly advocated for having poor trap options and objectively superior options to reward system knowledge. He also thought martials were too strong and spellcasters not strong enough. He's since backtracked, but that was after his time designing the system
>>3852770
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>well, you can use skills to do anything a spell can do
Never post again.

Might & Magic
>de-age your characters
>phase through walls
>teleport anywhere
>duplicate items
>recharge the spells on your wands
>spells that can OHKO 15 enemies at once