Thread 3860108

What are some fangames to play during the wait for Chapter 5?
Are you developing a fangame? Post progress!

new enemy: marker but its a dog
this will likely be the last new enemy, so now I just need to add new moves to pennilton, bearing and foxlace, redo the bearing and foxlace events and the bulk of the new dark world content will be complete (still missing some small things)
then I can set up the new gizmo stuff in light world and that should be all for new content, then I just finish the last small things and playtest/rewrite with my friend
hopefully I can make it before the end of the month

>>3860110
You have to give that thing some relation to the stapler enemy in chapter 2.

>>3860139
yes that is a planned interaction if you apprehend both

I like imagining stories from other characters' POVs, so imma do one for undertale yellow from Ceroba's perspective (with some headcanons to fill in the blanks, if you dont mind), so imagine you are ceroba for a moment, that everything you've seen about ceroba happened to you, instead:
>You are Ceroba Ketsukane, a (presumably) long descendant of a big family tree of Japanese Boss Monsters who migrated over to (location of Mt. Ebott) at some point before the great human-monster war occured, so even through you have like 1% japanese genes, you decide that the best way to pay your respects to your ancestry is by becoming obsessed with japan to the point where your future husband bought a japanese mansion when you moved away from your house later on.
>so, one day, you fell into a ditch, where you met the person who would later become love of your life, a skinny nerdy fox who seems to be very obviously in love with you, and at first, you weren't very interested in him, his magic was kinda weak despite him trying to boast about being a boss monster, even your magic is above average! to be honest, the only impressing thing you saw back then was that he's very good with machines, like very, very, talented, normally, you wouldve just ignored him as if he was like that weird dalv guy, but... him mentioning the fact that he's a boss monster made you feel curious, you've always felt different from your classmates due to being a boss monster, the only real friend you had being that one eccentric starlo guy, so you decide to try to know that nerd a bit more, you actively hang out with him out of pity, and eventually, one day, he asks you on a date!
>which is... surprising, the only time you've tried dating someone, you were strung along into starlo's cowboy adventures around the school, and althrough it was kinda fun to play with a bunch of nerf guns, things never really clicked between you two, so you decided to try dating again.

>>3860169
>and to your surprise... Chujin was really great! He loved watching the same human-made shows you did, he was obsessed with robotics, and even showed you a remote toy called "Axis model 00", he kept talking about how he wanted to become popular, and that he'll show everybody the might of Chujin! Overall, he was pretty fun to be around with, so you kept having dates often, developing a spark between you two.
>Thankfully, your parents were pretty accepting of your growing relationship with chujin, and his were pretty accepting to, the father talking about how "i'm glad that my boy finally chose somebody of the same monster species as us!", so you spent a lot of years together, and when you two married after graduating, he offered to take your family surname!
>After you were married, you two decided to have a child together and move away from the mountains and into the wild east, which frankly, gave you a great appreciation of your new family and what it could grow into with chujin's dreams.
>so of course, Chujin got a job at the steamworks and kept working on various Axis Models in order to impress the king or whatever, you two didnt really talk much about his work. In fact, it seemed kinda odd that he would later tell you that "he retired" for unspecified reasons, but you didnt question it much, althrough you did manage to catch wind of the fact that Asgore had criticized axis and his world, so it makes you consider that perhaps Asgore crushed Chujin's dreams and thats why he told you that he retired, so in the end, you could only resent Asgore for crushing his lifelong dreams, and what would happen soon after only made it stick further. You had to work at the Cafe near the wild east town, by the way.
>One day, Kanako asked you to let her go hang out with Dalv at snowdin's town, and you let her go, since you know that despite being a weirdo, Dalv has never let kanako get herself hurt, so you know she's safe within Dalv's hands.

>>3860170
>but a few hours later, you see Axis head out of the town and chujin tells you that a human wearing a tutu had been rampaging through snowdin! You decide to go save kanako and dalv from danger, when you and chujin get to snowdin, it becomes clear that kanako is alright, althrough Dalv had been kicked down a lot, nonetheless, you heal him up with some magic and comfort kanako.
>and before you could notice that chujin had ran off to waterfall while you were talking to kanako, he walks towards you with a visibly cleaned up Axis and he tells you that the human had been finally stopped, so thats great, at least you wont have to get your revenge against the little shit who dared to hurt so many people, included your daughter. Who knows what wouldve happened if they werent stopped.
>As the months go by, your husband mysteriously begins to grow ill, and even through he tries to not let it show, it's painfully clear that he's hesitant to tell you what's going on, and he keeps getting worse, to the point where he becomes bedridden from how weak his body had become.
>He simply chooses to tell you that theres a secret basement on the house where he keeps the VHS equivalents of a diary.
>So after your husband passes away, you learn from the tapes that he had been working on a project to create a serum with the blue soul and was injecting himself with it because of the lack of volunteering boss monsters, asking you to continue his project after his death, and the tapes beg you to not involve Kanako in this experiment.

>>3860171
>so you begin to plan, how could you continue chujin's project? But before you can get anywhere with it, it turns out that Kanako somehow found out about chujin's basement without your knowledge and snuck in while you weren't looking.
>so you go back into the basement, and Kanako tells you that she wants to help daddy's project and asks you to inject her with the same serum that took your husband away, even through the tapes just told you to not involve kanako.

>>3860172
>So you... go against your dead husband's wishes and jab your child with the same untested serum that killed your husband, and to your dismay, it made kanako fall down! How could this be!?
>So you quickly rush kanako over to the current royal scientist's lab and ask alphys to fix your daughter up in anyway you can.
>that's the last time you see your daughter, because alphys started to ghost you whenever you DMed her about your terminally ill daughter, and you cant help but to feel concerned about her safety, about what is going on with her exactly.
>then again, it's not like she was in the best conditions when you brought her in, so perhaps there was very little hope of your daughter ever recovering anyways, maybe you just need a miracle for her recover!
>but either way, you begin to ponder what you did wrong, and you reach the conclusion that maybe the serum didnt work for either chujin or kanako because the human soul used for the serum wasn't pure or something, so all you have to do is wait for the next human to have 0 exp and walk into your town.
>you succumb into your depression and begin drinking alcohol to numb the pain and stress of having to fulfill your husband's project somehow, you move into your childhood friend's place because you cant bear the constant reminders of what you had lost, and while starlo is willing to support you after your loss, you feel like you cant trust starlo enough to tell him about chujin's project, so you spend the next years keeping it to yourself, being too depressed to bother doing stuff like going to the gym and such, your boss at the café place is dogshit so that doesnt help much either, but at least starlo keeps you from going over the edge.
>one day, while starlo went off to do yet another one of his cowboy larp roleplay adventures, he brings in a silent autistic child called clover into the salloon, so you begin to pay some attention to clover.

>>3860173
>whether this child likes starlo's adventures or not, you can tell that, deep down, they really want to go fight the kong, despite the fact that he had 5 human souls by now. This is perfect, however, their need for justice as well as their lack of EXP means theyre naive enough for you to take out with ease, all you have to do is to isolate them into the steamworks and you'll finally get to work on chujin's experiment! So you continue to kinda-observe the human every now and then, and for some reason, Starlo's gang decided to split up, so you finally get up and ask the former feisty five members what the fuck happened.

>>3860174
>so apparently, starlo kept pampering the random human who popped in over his own gang and they got fed up and left after trying to beat the child to death as a test, which does remind you that you're supposed to be ready to take the human's soul at any moment, so you walk over to starlo's and see him about to shoot the child down while they're raising their arms up in surrender (ooc: or not if clover pressed FIGHT and missed the attack), so you swoop in and stop him from doing this, after all of that, you're now ready to execute your plan and bring the human into steamworks.
>You boss them around for a bit, pretending that you know what you're doing, because frankly, you havent been here for a long time, but you dont want to seem like you're more incompetent than a literal child, so you start fiddling with a random machine while they go off and open the door for you, which makes you reconsider, maybe if you make clover do every puzzle and battle for you, they'll be worn out and you'll be able to take their soul right away, so thats what you do, you watch them do everything, you dont throw them into the purple lava for some reason, but regardless, they keep badgering you into TALKing about stuff everytime you two walk into a room, which gets a bit annoying, but you put up with it for the sake of the plan, just get to hotland and everything will be fine.
>so one of Chujin's robots pops up, and it seems like your ex-husband forgot to sneak you into the database, because he does not recognize you despite your relationship with chujin?? So he throws you and the kid into an enclosed room, and given how stupid that robot seemed to be, you suggest building something to make Axis stop being lonely or whatever, so they walk around collecting random garbage to build into something that would make axis give up.

>>3860175
>once you make your escape, a battle against a random steamworks robot starts, which reminds you to warn the child to not fucking destroy the machines with a revolver.
>after all, you wouldnt want this stupid kid to destroy your dead husband's work, so you proceed to do the bare minimum in every fight by summoning a weakass shield around their soul, hoping that the child will get themselves killed in a random fight for your convenience, you could just push the human into the purple lava and get things over with quickly, but you dont really consider that possibility for some reason, so you just pray they get unlucky and die or something.
>over the course of your journey with clover, you get to know them a bit more from what little info they choose to give off, so apparently theyre buddies with the weird raccoon salesman guy, and, apparently, theyve holding onto a bunch of golden stuff??
>either way, after outrunning axis, you decide to open up to the child a bit, telling them about how everybody else is foolish enough to hope for the king to save them all and about your daughter, they dont talk much, but at least theyre a great listener, which helps you feel motivated to continue with this plan.
>Clover faces all sorts of dangers while you keep watching them spare the enemies with relative ease, eventually finding a robot who's a face in the screen
>it forces you two to do a "puzzle" which is essentially just unpaid manual labor, the worst part being that the conveyor belt is broken so you have to step in so that this fuckass machine doesnt lock you up forever.

>>3860176
>this all goes on for a while, with you venting about how much asgore and alphys suck to this child, of course, to make up fir all the yapping you were doing, you ask clover about their motives for coming into the underground while on the elevator, and they tell you about their personal mission, which is surprisingly naive, given that its painfully obvious why the humans never returned to their houses.
>after you turn all the robots off and move onwards, a wall between you and clover appears, so while clover faces axis alone, you try forcing the door open
>of course, the fight is almost over by the time you get through, so thats convenient at least. Clover shows Axis the thing you two built earlier in order to get him to stop harassing you two, so with him out of the way, you head towards the hotland elevator, but suddenly, Starlo pops up and it seems like he and his gang found out the truth about your plans, which leaves you with no choice but to escape, you fail to grab clover's hand, but at least you make your way towards new home, you do end up cornered in a dead end, forcing you to explain yourself to starlo
>eventually, martlet and clover walk right towards you, which only makes things easier, you quickly knock martlet and starlo out, althrough it's odd how starlo ran towards you instead of using his lasso, but whatever, you make a dramatic speech, you start the fight, and start feeling confident, there's no way this stupid child is gonna be able to defeat you, right?
>well, surprisingly enough, they actually stand their ground quite well, managing to somehow survive your unavoidable attack, and even more surprising, they manage to shoot your magical mask shield down, which shows you the past, the reasons for what you are fighting for, which only reinvigorates you, not really convenient for clover, either
>but the battle reaches its end, for clover somehow manages to defeat you, forcing you to kneel and now, your survival is left to clover's hands...

>>3860178
Of course, death would be the end of ceroba, so lets see the mercy ending:
>and, thus, Clover decides to SPARE you, leading to you... not being berated for knocking them out and almost killing a child, in fact, starlo compliments you for the hit even through he couldve been braindead from that hit, plus, you hitting martlet couldve made her and clover fall off the cliff, so it's really surprising how he doesn't chew you out for your actions.
>either way, your plans have blown up because the child was too competent to die. You feign regret as you know that you've gone too far for them to just accept any excuses or "i'm sorry"s, if not starlo, then the royal guards will surely arrest you for unwarranted violence against a monster civilian and a literal royal guard, at least you might get a lesser sentence by acting like clover breaking your mask and reminding you of what you were fighting for which only motivated you further instead of talking you out of doing all of this made you change your mind about this whole thing, just gotta act like you're sad in court and monster saul goodman might get you out of this predicament.
>And yet, Starlo forgave you even through you both tried killing a child?? Like, that doesnt make both of your actions okay, but sure. And then martlet decides to let you off scotfree! With starlo and martlet hugging you! Well, it does seem like you got away with everything, so hey, no punishment for you, even the child you've tried to murder hugged you.
>you start to discuss what to do with clover now when suddenly they speak up and decide to give their soul up? Kinda defeats the point of them beating you in the first place, but ok, still understandable, however...
>martlet and starlo are completely fine with letting this child commit suicide??? You couldn't care less because the whole point of your fight was to kill clover, but why are these guys willing to let clover commit suicide? And theyre just willing to leave clover to rot here???

>>3860179
>So basically, martlet and starlo leave you alone with clover, you pull out a soul container out of thin air, and for some reason, the thought of just grabbing the soul and running off with it never crosses your mind even through all the stars have strangely enough aligned to accomplish the whole point you fought clover for, but whatever, you just get the soul, bring it to asgore, and get a very convenient yet confusing happy ending, i guess.
And thus, that's UTY from ceroba's POV, pretty neat, althrough some of the og uty's plotholes are very noticeable even from another character's POV, but still, writing this was pretty fun ngl

>>3860169
>>You are Ceroba Ketsukane, a (presumably) long descendant of a big family tree of Japanese Boss Monsters
already wrong, roba is a regular monster, chujin is the boss monster, roba only had the stuff she has in UTY because of him
roba was a nobody and everyone thinking otherwise is wish fulfilling (for her)

>>3860108 (OP)
Rape

>>3860108 (OP)
Stop spamming this shit. You've posted this same thing over and over again.
The 5 of you that really love this game should just start DM'ing each other and leave /vrpg/.
Seriously, I know you want attention but it's only you talking to yourselves.
Deltarune is bad, and the fact you need to come here and need validation is proof.

>>3860194
Wait what? Really? I thought it was a fact that she's a boss monster, in my defense, i checked and saw nothing stating that she's a regular monster

>>3860108 (OP)
Stop posting

>>3860229
Wow...they really are desperate for content

>3860211
>3860229
Cry about the sequel, alice, rpg maker, xeno, /mon/ and all the other reoccurring threads too
But you won't because you specifically hate UT/DR, this thread isn't even that different from the rpg dev ones except it being focused on UT/DR fangames (and progress is actually posted consistently)
No (You) for you because fuck you

>>3860223
>i checked and saw nothing stating that she's a regular monster
She needed a boss monster to test the serum and Kanako was the only available subject

>>3860223
She's always been a regular monster.
The game pretty much spells it out for you, if you have basic Undertale lore knowledge.
That and the biggest give away is when she dies, her soul doesn't linger, which is exclusive to boss monsters.

>>3860229
>>3860231
I dunno, I'd say the fact these threads consistently hit the bump limit within just a few weeks on this board of all places shows that we've got a decent bit of activity going on here.
A single thread out of an entire board isn't a problem, move along.

>>3860261
I think you proved their point. -> >>3860211 and >>3860229
If it was more people it would fill faster.
Not defending this person or persons, but reading some of the past posts. It's the same stuff over and over again.
How much of a dead horse can you beat?

>>3860273
there are at least 30-50 people average (even if most only do one post then disappear)
and besides people want to remain anonymous and not be linked to an account or annoying rules other platforms have, so its easier to use a board like this
not like /vrpg/ is fighting for space like /v/ or other faster boards are anyway, at least the discussion is actually on topic instead of it just being image/porn dumps

Unfortunately I have to partially agree with >>3860229 but for entirely different reasons. But I know that the person I replied to is just a seething wannabe janny who doesn’t like UT/DR in general, so I’m using this as a stepping stone for my own issues.
Every /vrpg/ thread for the past year or so has just been the same “Fangames” thread, often with the same image. There hasn’t been a single proper Yellow thread since 2024, despite these threads existing from Yellow fans to begin with.
And I know that the guy who makes this threads is always the same one, because they all use the same basic format. Last year I asked him to return these threads to their old UTY format, which was really only acknowledged with a different image for one thread before we went back to the same format.
It’s time for a proper Undertale Yellow thread on this board. We’re long overdue for one at this point.

>>3860280
its healthier for the threads to be about fangames in general since we have dev anons actively posting stuff, and it doesn't preclude yellow discussion

>>3860280
I gotta agree with >>3860282 , UTY had it's sole time in the spotlight, and it still gets it's time in the spotlight every weekend with those /v/ threads, so having the /vrpg/ threads be more generally fangame oriented rather than being centered around UTY specifically just makes sense.
I say this as a huge yellowfag, the other games need their space for discussion without being considered "off topic".

>>3860280
You can feel free to make the next thread be a yellow thread. Nothing is stopping you from making the new thread yourself.

Not that the Op matters much. People would still discuss other fangames just as much if it an Undertale Yellow Op, and they still discuss UTY just as much now as they would if it were a UTY Op.

>>3860285
if anything the continued effort on fan works is a large part of what keeps the threads from getting stale. brings in new content, makes things feel alive. I still have not gotten over my absolute obsession over yellow but these are good things

>>3860273
This is the second or third fastest thread on this board. I don't think you have any room to complain about the thread being slow.

>>3860273
I hate the pace that modern 4chan has gotten people used to. tons of boards used to move at about the speed this thread does.

>>3860287
Yeah, so it's good for them to have their own place, that being here.
Even if I honestly don't actually care for basically any of them at this point, it's nice to see new stuff being made.

>>3860289
Modern 4chan? I was under the impression that a select few boards get the lion's share of traffic with most going at around this one's pace, and that it has been this way for many years

>>3860290
>even if I honestly don't actually care for basically any of them at this point
Nta, but any reason in particular for that?

>>3860292
yes but even the "fast boards" were a fraction of the speed they are now. I'm saying that the pace of this thread is more on par with what an average board was like 18 years ago. I know, smaller internet and all but I'm saying a pace like this is 'healthy'.

>>3860295
not counting /b/ though actually, /b/ was already pretty out of control in 2007

>>3860292
>>3860295
I mean not to kick you guys in the nads but like you know most of 4chan's traffic like most of the internet is like a handful of autists spamming garbage using proxies?
Especially after the shart knocked 4chan offline.
Although I will say there's probably more human traffic in Deltarune threads considering they soft banned it on /v/ and have been intentionally letting an autist shit up the threads. No point in doing that if it wasn't inorganic as fuck like the rest of the catalog.

>>3860108 (OP)
What fan games are out there? Are there any good ones?
Huge fan of Undertale, not a fan of Deltarune in the slightest.
Played a few Undertale fan games, but they didn't really add much or seemed unfinished.
Also, no porn parodies, not my thing. Thanks in advance.

>>3860293
Not really, just none of the fangames really catch my eye at this point. To be fair, I also didn't really care about UTY until it was finished, at which point I was just kinda curious to see how the first full-length UT fangame turned out after so long in development (it still surprises me that UTY took as long to make as TNM for Deus Ex did, but I digress), and I ended up really liking it, so it's not out of the question that any of the fangames featured in these threads might end up being something I'll like, but I'm not really holding my breath.
I guess Naranja looks cool from what I've seen, but that's largely because it's the only one that hasn't activated my master-level autism by having some kind of small technical lore/presentation problem, so I guess it's moreso just the one fangame I'm the least angry at for technical reasons, rather than actually being particularly interested in.

>>3860300
The main one is Undertale Yellow. Its fully featured and about the same length as Undertale. Its writing is worse (noticeably so towards the end) but the art and music is just as good if not better than Undertale's. Its really good for what it is.

The only other completed full length fangame is Outertale. I haven't played it, but I haven't heard good things about it. Apparently its just Undertale, but in space, with bad writing.

The rest are either still in development, or are single fight games.

Of the single fight games Undertale Red, A Different Snowgrave, The Upper Hand, and One Hell Of A Ride are good. There are loads more than those, but I'm not an expert on single fight fangames. There's also a shitload of AU fight fangames which vary wildly in quality.

Of the unfinished ones, Wildfire, that Underfell take the name of which escapes me, Deltarune Yellow, and Naranja have playable demos and are pretty good. There's also Deltatraveler, which has a lot of stuff playable, but its writing is genuinely awful. It has good music and a lot of skilled artists, but the writing absolutely ruins it.

A lot of devs (myself included) also like to use these threads to discuss development, so a lot of unfinished games with no demos get discussed here too.

>>3860301
So what do you think about the idea that Toby probably cares less about following his own lore than we do?

>>3860304
Undertale Yellow seems pretty exciting. I'm just worried, like with most prequels, it opens up the story, but the outcome is already known.
Don't want it spoiled and will check it out now. It's 250mb, about.
Undertale Hype, and thanks

>>3860311
Fair warning, the writing takes a nose dive at the very end. The devs were in a rush to get it finished and didn't want to give things a second pass, and the ending really needed a second pass. I won't tell you what happens, just be prepared for one of the endings to be genuinely disappointing with its writing quality.

>>3860305
How exactly has Toby broken his own lore?
I'm sure you'll cite something from the 10th anniversary streams and say that means he doesn't care about his own world, but ignoring how that would be a complete misunderstanding of what he actually meant with those streams, nothing Toby's done with Deltarune is in any kind of violation of previously existing lore, since DR mostly hasn't touched anything from UT directly, only either building off ideas from UT, or just doing it's own thing with it's own world, which is also fine.
DR is free to explore new ideas because it takes place in a different universe from UT, even if it shares some kind of general existence with it somehow.
Fangames that take place in pre-existing universes are different, because they have to actually adhere to the rules and style of the universe they're trying to be a part of, but so many fangames don't even try to maintain basic consistency with the source material. And yeah, taking creative liberties and making new ideas based on a source material is far from an inherently bad thing, but if you have to actively break so many previously established rules of a universe in order to tell your story in that universe, you probably aren't telling a very good story for that universe.
Just look at how many people hate on Deltatraveler for it's character writing. No one really has a problem with the basic concept, since it sorta fits the idea of other worlds existing which has already been brought up in UTDR, but none of the characters actually act like themselves, so none of it works. It breaks the established standards or "rules" for how these characters should/would act, so no one can take it's story seriously as a result, it's just too distracting.
I have similar problems with Deus Ex: Human Revolution, but I've talked about that in previous threads, so I think everyone gets the idea.

>>3860311
Don't listen to >>3860314 , the writing's fine if you have above an elementary-grade reading level.
Don't go in expecting to have a bad time, just play the game, exercise basic analytical thought, and feel free to come back here and give your thoughts on the game when you're done.
Hope you have a good time.

To the other anon, don't read this post, it has spoilers. And you should probably leave the thread right now since its going to have loads of major spoilers discussed.
>>3860316
I wasn't talking about Kanako . I wasn't trying to dissuade him from playing either, I just always like to be warned when I'm going to step on a narrative landmine, so I like to extend that courtesy to other people.

>>3860322
>I wasn't trying to dissuade him from playing either, I just always like to be warned when I'm going to step on a narrative landmine, so I like to extend that courtesy to other people.
I wasn't necessarily directly referring to you-know-who, it could also be applied to you-know-what also.
Anyway, I can respect not wanting other people to experience disappointment at parts of a story you thought weren't great, but it's not exactly a great thing to do to say, "hey, hope you enjoy the game you're about to go into blind, just wanted to warn you that the entire ending fucking sucks and was really badly written, so don't get too attached to anything, alright?".
Like, let the guy experience the game for himself, it's kinda hard to really enjoy something when one of the first things you hear going in is someone telling you it sucks.

>>3860315
>How exactly has Toby broken his own lore?
Nose nuzzle champs 98.

My point wasn't so much that he breaks his lore, but that he doesn't put much thought into it. Its just a means to an end, that end being a justification for the story and characters.

As far as the anniversary stream goes, I just took that as him telling us to have fun writing fanfiction, regardless of whether or not its any good. Remember that he got his start making really edgy Earthbound fanfiction.

>but so many fangames don't even try to maintain basic consistency with the source material.
Could you cite some examples? You've already given Deltatraveler, but its an easy whipping boy. Its just poorly made all around. Another example would help me to better understand what you mean.

>>3860324
>it's kinda hard to really enjoy something when one of the first things you hear going in is someone telling you it sucks.
I guess this is just a difference of taste. I tend to enjoy stories more when I'm warned beforehand about elements I really wouldn't like, so I can properly prepare myself for them.

>>3860330
>Nose nuzzle champs 98.
Elaborate? I mean that genuinely, I'm not immediately catching that one at the moment, explain what the issue is with that.
>Could you cite some examples?
Sure, a few. When I complain about consistency, I'm referring to more than just previously established lore, stuff like art style, presentation, mechanics, etc are all also factors in that. Hence my problems with Human Revolution.
For presentation and art style, I'd say Wildfire makes some pretty big changes to how something set in the UT world should look. UTY already had a few problems there, mostly with the main cast (except Clover, somehow) having actual complex shading and 16-bit styled sprites, while the rest of the game more or less matches UT's 8-bit styled art design, but from what I've seen of it, Wildfire just throws all that shit out the window in favor of more complex pixel art and much more blatant furry character designs. UTY also had an issue with some of the monster designs being more visually appealing than most monsters from UT, but that was really mostly because it was evident with the main cast of UTY in comparison to the main cast of UT, UTY still had a decent bit of more abstract or monstrous monster designs outside of it's main cast, and the original UT had it's fair share of furbait too, so I'm not particularly broken up about that, but Wildfire looks like it's going all-in on the furry OC designs, and it just feels really jarring.
To pick on a different game, that one purple soul fangame whose name I forget (something "reflection"? I dunno.) had some pretty major presentation problems, with the UI, overworld art design, and just generally everything about the game being so far removed from what UT looks like that I genuinely didn't realize it was meant to be a UT fangame until someone pointed it out as such.

>>3860300
In case you're still around, what don't you like about Deltarune?
I ask this to every detractor I come across since I'm making a fangame that tells an alternate scenario with the same premise, so I'd like to know what I can do differently to potentially make it more appealing.

>>3860336
>Elaborate? I mean that genuinely, I'm not immediately catching that one at the moment, explain what the issue is with that.
The issue is that the game takes place well after 201X, but it also implies that Dogamy and Dogaressa lost against Asgore and Toriel in the 1998 Nose Nuzzle championship, which would make the dogs over a century old, which doesn't really make sense considering that they're just common monsters. That was more of a joke answer though.

I actually think Undertale's lore is pretty consistent. It just achieves that by not going into detail about things unless it has to. That's a fair a solution, but it does illustrate that the lore is a secondary concern that only exists to serve the characters, themes, and gameplay.

>Those examples
Fair. Though now I'm curious what you think of the other fangames, and why Naranja specifically is the only one you like.

>>3860330
As far as lore problems go, I don't actually know too much about the lore for the fangames that typically get brought up in these threads, since I mostly want to wait until/if any of them actually come out to sit down and experience them, but I do recall seeing some blue soul fangame at UnderEvent or something that had Flowey in it which made no goddamn sense because the fangame was saying that the blue soul protagonist was the first fallen human after Chara, and Flowey was only made relatively recently before the events of UT. I haven't heard too much about that fangame recently though, so I figure it probably got mocked to death on the basis of the people making it not actually understanding the story they were trying to make a prequel to.
Also, this isn't really an issue when it comes to consistency per se, but I'm kinda personally not very interested in either of the DRY takes, primarily because so much of their stories seem to revolve around "expanding" on character relationships from UTY that were, in actuality, completely nonexistent.
Namely the relationship between Martlet and Cole, and Cole and Kanako.
I already talked at length about how Clover and Martlet's relationship in UTY was completely forced outside of pacifist, because every other route has them spending maybe a handful of minutes together at most, and those handful of minutes may have been spent desperately trying to kill each other depending on the route, but I won't go too deep into that in this thread, unless provoked.
As for Clover and Kanako, what relationship? Neither one of them ever interacts with the other, or is even on-screen at the same time as each other, and they're both such complete non-characters that trying to write either one of them as having a more direct personal role in the story outside of being the player character or an Uncle Ben effectively requires writing an entirely new character from scratch, which kinda defeats the point of them being Clover and Kanako.

>>3860341
>The issue is that the game takes place well after 201X, but it also implies that Dogamy and Dogaressa lost against Asgore and Toriel in the 1998 Nose Nuzzle championship, which would make the dogs over a century old, which doesn't really make sense considering that they're just common monsters. That was more of a joke answer though.
Ah, that. Funnily enough, I actually do have an answer as to why that could be lore consistent, but it's so schizophrenic and completely off the wall that you'd never believe me.
>Naranja specifically is the only one you like.
Like I said, it's not necessarily the case that I actually particularly care for it, it's just the one that hasn't violated some technical standard for what UT's style is, so it gets a pass from me.
For now.
As for other fangames, while I do actively want to see more fangames get finished and have their time in the spotlight, even the ones that have violated some obscure technicality, I probably won't play too many of them if their stories/writing is too distracting for me to immerse myself in their worlds.
This also includes internal consistency. I remember I gave the Oldentale guy or whoever a hard time about that, since he brought up the idea of some monster in his story having the ability to make a giant floating rock city entirely of his own ability, while also having the monster king at the time of the war be a huge tyrant, and somehow *not* have that tyrannical king who wants to oppose the humans force that monster into teaching other monsters how to use that power to kinetically bombard humanity with giant rocks dropped on them from the sky.
There were other problems with what he said in that thread, like monster israel, or the wh40k ork technology, all of which I also had (and still have) problems with, but you get the idea.
Oldentale guy, if you're reading this, this isn't really a jab at you personally, and I'm not even saying you'd have to change any of those things, these are just examples.

>>3860343
>which kinda defeats the point of them being Clover and Kanako.
Does it? I see a lack of detail as an opportunity to write a new character. Kanako here is basically in the same position Clover was in with the original Undertale, nothing but a footnote to someone else's story. So now we get to see what she's like.

That's what DRY is to me, a chance to get to know all the characters we weren't able to in UTY. Sure they didn't actually exist as characters beyond what we saw of them, but the illusion of them did, and that's what all writing is, the illusion of something more. It tricks our minds into thinking something is there. So I think its fair game to make a game all about exploring those unexplored characters from UTY.

Same goes for Gizmo, Chujin, Sadie, and Integrity. All these are little more than set dressing and back story elements in UTY, but here we get to see their story.

>>3860346
>Kanako here is basically in the same position Clover was in with the original Undertale,
UTY didn't actually do too much with Clover as a character, and that's a good thing. Outside of their devotion to the idea of justice, Clover can largely be summed up as "a dedicated young man with no characteristics". I'd attach that screenshot here if I had it.
Anyway, the thing about Kanako for me is that because her entire purpose in UTY was as an Uncle Ben type character who exists only to build up other members of the cast (which no, isn't a problem no matter how badly some people here misread the story and got mad at the game for not living up to the expectations they made up), so seeing more of her just isn't interesting to me because she just doesn't have anything going on with her character outside of being related to a member of the main cast.
Like I said, she's such a non-character that trying to give her a more direct presence in a story outside of what she already had requires that you write an entirely new character from scratch, at which point you aren't writing "Kanako", you're writing an OC wearing Kanako's face, and that's just not a premise I care for.
It's one thing to take a character who's personality, goals, abilities, etc we already know and put them into a new context because then we can speculate on how they might behave based on how we already know them to behave in the situations we've seen them in, but taking a character we have basically no information on and putting them in a new context just doesn't work as well, because there's nothing to go off of. "Kanako" in DRY isn't Kanako, she's some generic deuteragonist/love interest to a character she really has no business being associated with, she has nothing in common with the Kanako from UTY because the Kanako from UTY has nothing to go off of.
To put it this way, we genuinely know more about W.D Gaster from the original UT, entirely excluding DR, than we know about Kanako in UTY.

>>3860345
>I actually do have an answer as to why that could be lore consistent, but it's so schizophrenic and completely off the wall that you'd never believe me.
I do too, but I know there's no way that was Toby's intended reading of that line. I like to think that the trophy in Asgore's house refers to the 1998 championship, while Dogamy and Dogaressa won second place in the 2X98 championship, while a couple we don't meet got first.

>Oldentale guy, if you're reading this

I feel like I just didn't get a chance to properly explain myself with that stuff. The city isn't so much floating as it is falling in reverse, and the only thing keeping it from going into space is a bunch of chains holding it to the ground. And the thing making it fall in reverse is the giant city sized magic machine that wouldn't be feasible to mass produce.

The king also isn't as much of a despot as he came across in that thread. He's not a big fuzzy pushover like Asgore, but he is generally well liked and a nice guy. I have been considering making him the son of the king who conquered the other monster kingdoms I feel like that works better with the chronology of things too.

>like monster israel,
That one I really could have explained better. I mainly did the "all the monsters from around the world in one kingdom" thing to justify all these different cultures being within walking distance of each other, and the original home of the monsters thing was mainly to tie into a major plot element I had planned involving the Delta Rune and the original meaning of it. I later leaned into it more because I thought the monsters dying in the same place they were born was poetic, and of course because I think the tragic story of the elves in the Lord Of The Rings and Silmarillion was really cool. if you meant stuff relating specifically to the angel. Its not some sort of god or deity like we would think of it

>>3860345
>>3860357
Sorry for info dumping, but I still regret improperly explaining things in that other discussion

Continuing about the angel, I promise it is not what you thought it was. Also a lot of the finer details of this are still up in the air, as those are minor set dressing for really late game stuff. So a lot of it is subject to change

>the wh40k ork technology,
Its not ork technology. I guess if I were to use a 40k analogy, this would be like the dark age of technology. This is the monsters at their height. The best they've ever been technologically. The destruction caused by the war and the severe brain drain caused by all their best and brightest dying, their cities being destroyed, their population being reduced to a tiny fraction of its former size, them being trapped underground for millennia, and the world simply losing most of its magic lead to them losing almost all of their technology, and only just now getting back up to that level by the time of Undertale.

>>3860357
Oh, hello again. Funny how that happens, eh?
>falling in reverse, and the only thing keeping it from going into space is a bunch of chains holding it to the ground.
Ah, I think I've heard a similar idea before. I'm told there's something like that in some story called the "Edge Chronicles", according to my brother, but I've never read it myself, so you'll have to be the judge of that I guess.
>And the thing making it fall in reverse is the giant city sized magic machine that wouldn't be feasible to mass produce.
Even with that being the case, I still feel like that would be a really good threat to use as a deterrent, since I could pretty easily imagine just letting it build some distance between itself and a target, before making it very quickly fall in not-reverse, effectively wiping out it's target and anything in a however-many-mile radius.
>I mainly did the "all the monsters from around the world in one kingdom" thing to justify all these different cultures being within walking distance of each other
Okay, I'm gonna stop picking on the idea of it being israel, but I do still have a problem with the idea on the basis that it still kinda conflicts with the opening of UT saying that humans and monsters both "ruled over earth", since having only a single city to your empire's name doesn't exactly constitute "ruling over earth". I'm pretty sure the people living in Taiwan don't consider themselves to be "ruling" china anymore either.
Also, I don't necessarily have a problem with the ruler of the monsters doing stuff because of some kind of divine inspiration (even though I still personally feel like the monster king should be Asgore), but I feel like it's pretty easy to draw comparisons when that divine inspiration was to gather all his people to a single land that this deific entity apparently promised to them however long ago. Like, that's a pretty surface level comparison, it's not very hard to see.

>>3860351
Haven't you ever wondered what Uncle Ben was like? Wanted to spend a comic with him? Or what about Batman's parents? Sure they aren't the focus of the Batman comics, but wouldn't a comic that does focus on them be neat? I thought that one where Bruce Wayne died and Thomas Wayne became Batman was pretty cool.

That's what this is. Its the "What if the story were about them" comic.

> you're writing an OC wearing Kanako's face, and that's just not a premise I care for.
Fair enough I suppose. If you don't like it, that's just how it is. I just think turning a non-character into a character is a fun. Its like getting to go down into and walk around all those background areas in UT that you never got to explore in the game.

>>3860359
>Its not ork technology.
The magic technology, you get the idea.
Honestly, I think the idea of having technology powered by what would be considered magic is actually a pretty cool idea when done right, my main issue here is that the UT opening seems to depict the Human-Monster war as having happened hundreds, or potentially thousands of years ago, given that both sides of the conflict are both depicted using only medieval weaponry and fantasy equipment, so it was just pretty hard to take it seriously when you brought up the idea of monsters having mechs at this point, since I'm not sure how monsterkind possibly could've lost if they were deploying NEXTs on the battlefield against humans with swords and spears.
Like, physical strength between you and your opponent doesn't really matter if you have an armored core and they have a metal sword, right?

>>3860211
Kill yourself already

>>3860362
>Its the "What if the story were about them" comic.
Also, that's not technically the case here, since DR's story has indicated that pretty much the entire story relating to the characters, the prophecy, the bunker, etc, are all somehow related to whatever Gaster's doing, with everyone outside of his apparent interests not being as important as those explicitly mentioned in the prophecy. So, the *actual* answer to "what if the story was about them?" is "they would do nothing of any consequence and live entirely normal lives because the actual story is happening one town over and the guy who has control over this world doesn't care about them", because I'm told neither DRY take is going to have anything to do with Gaster, there really isn't any actual reason for there to be anything to do with dark worlds or fountains or any of that in the context of a DRY take.
So to be more accurate, it's "what if we forced the story to be about them despite them not actually being relevant here?". That's the issue. It's a bit like if UTY tried to make all that stuff that was going on with Ceroba and the serum project important to Frisk's journey specifically, that story is too centered around a particular character and setting for all that other stuff to just be inserted like that, it just doesn't work as well.
I think a DRY take could actually work rather well if it had a good enough reason to tie into the story of DR somehow, like the main antagonist of DRY actually trying to stop the implied scratch that's going to happen at the end of DR, only for Cole and Kanako to stop them, not realizing that they've effectively doomed themselves into becoming their UT counterparts when the scratch happens, but most people here vehemently disagree with them being doomed by the narrative, so I doubt that would be appreciated.

>>3860363
>if you have an armored core and they have a metal sword, right?
I wonder, considering that mettaton is a ghost piloting a robot basically and you can fuck him up nice and proper.

>>3860369
His EX form is blatantly described in-universe as being weak as shit to physical attacks, his base form is apparently invincible to damage from the player, to the point that even the yellow soul shot just bounces off him.
Yeah, I think a magic powered AC could probably do some damage.

>>3860369
His metal box form says hes impervious to damage, and he can still shock you, albeit for like 1HP. Surely monsters at their prime can cook up something much more deadly. And speaking of ghost monsters, why not just build giant golems and have one make it their body?

>>3860110
what do you mean bearing and foxlace events?

>>3860371
NTA you were replying to, but yeah, you've got the right idea. Mettaton actually shocks you for more than 1 damage, but more importantly, if a fairly incompetent scientist like Alphys could make something like him when she really wasn't even trying to make a particularly efficient human-killing machine, imagine what someone could make if they actually tried. Nigh-invincible weapons platforms, absolutely shredding their opponents to pieces across the battlefield.
Seriously, if monsters could just make shit like that, how did they ever lose when their enemies wielded metal swords and spears?

>>3860360
>Edge Chronicles"
I haven't read it either.

>since I could pretty easily imagine just letting it build some distance between itself and a target, before making it very quickly fall in not-reverse,
The biggest issue with that is moving it. This thing is chained to the ground, and the instant you detach those chains its going to fall into space. I imagine he could probably make some kind of specialized machine to drag it to its target, but that's going to be extremely slow and vulnerable to attack. And since the humans are largely nomadic, and wage their war like the mongols, they don't have any cities worth wasting a one of a kind technological marvel and potential Manhattan project equivalent to destroy.

>since having only a single city to your empire's name doesn't exactly constitute "ruling over earth".
They have quite a few cities in the kingdom. A lot of them have been destroyed by the time of the game, but they did exist. Even in the game you go to multiple cities. The capital city itself is really more like 4 cities in one.

There's also the fact the monsters are in pretty serious denial of their decline by this point. They don't want to admit that they're washed up has beens of a race, and that the new kids on the block have basically replaced them. They did in history rule the whole Earth, all seven continents, but they don't anymore. And the war itself destroyed a lot of their history texts. Most of what was written down was done by the survivors, who were huffing whatever copium they could find to keep their will to live.

>even though I still personally feel like the monster king should be Asgore
but then you couldn't have a sick ass, no holds barred, boss fight with him. It'd have to be a forced loss or a non-fight like in UTY

>>3860372
I've rewritten some of the story events, most beats are still the same but bearing's motivations are now different and foxlace is a bit more involved with the chapter's plot

>>3860360
>Like, that's a pretty surface level comparison, it's not very hard to see
But its not like they have a monopoly on the idea. Most pagan or folk religions have a similar concept of "this land is mine because my God/Gods gave it to me" or "My great ancestors claimed this land, and that is why my people live here". Plus its super common in fantasy. Dwarves do it, Elves do it, even Humans do it sometimes.

> since I'm not sure how monsterkind possibly could've lost if they were deploying NEXTs on the battlefield against humans with swords and spears.
First of all, they're not NEXTs or Armored Cores. They're clunky walking steam engines with stubby legs that can't go fifteen minutes without needing to be recharged (by physically turning a crank for a few hours). These things are impractical in the hands of basically anyone except their creator, who can only use them because he's a boss monster with super powerful magic, and has a giant magic collector machine to draw extra power from.

>Like, physical strength between you and your opponent doesn't really matter if you have an armored core and they have a metal sword, right?
You ever play Metal Gear Rising?

>>3860367
DRY isn't tied in to DR's narrative at all. They might not even be in the same universe. I think your problem is that you've misread the title. Deltarune Yellow isn't "Undertale Yellow for Deltarune" its "Deltarune for Undertale Yellow". Its UTY's alternate story, not a prequel to Deltarune.

>>3860367
this >>3860380 , I'm making DRY1 just because I wanted more kanaclover content to be made because I find it cute, and I also had my own idea of what I wanted DR to be before chapters 3 and 4 and I will make DRY be based more on that
it won't be directly tied to DR besides maybe a reference here and there but I even came up with my own way for why dark worlds exist and how the rules are different from DR, it is pretty much a original game with DR battle system and art style. I also think UTY somewhat wasted some characters so I want to kinda give them a second chance
and I am actually making an original game based on some ideas I got from DRY, but I still want to finish DRY both for myself and for the kanaclover fans as I mentioned (it is why it only has 5 chapters instead of 7)

>>3860375
>The biggest issue with that is moving it. This thing is chained to the ground, and the instant you detach those chains its going to fall into space.
Alright, now we're talking physics, so I've got an idea.
Why don't we not move it, and just let the earth itself move until we're ready to drop the rock? Here's the idea, we get a second rock of equivalent mass to the first rock, and hook it up with some similar magic to make it fall in reverse, and chain it to the first rock. Then, we cut the chains, and let them rise to a certain altitude. Probably somewhere in orbit, so as to actually let the earth rotate underneath the two masses. Given that you've said the mass "falls in reverse", I'm going to assume it simply moves in the opposite direction from which the force of the earth's gravity acts on it, which means it isn't being propelled the way a normal machine like a rocket would. This also means that it wouldn't have to worry about actually maintaining an orbit to stay at whatever altitude we need it at, but we'll get to that. Once we have the rocks at the desired height, turn one of the rock's magic off, causing the force of gravity to affect it normally again. This rock, having equivalent normal mass to the other rock's effective negative-mass, will cause the pair to maintain their altitude, because the pair will have equivalent forces pulling them towards the planet, and pushing them away simultaneously.
Now, any object traveling away from the surface of the earth will eventually no longer be directly above the position it initially launched from due to how tangents work with the rotation of the earth, so now all we have to do is wait for the earth to rotate such that our desired target is underneath the pair of rocks, and then turn off the magic on the rock that's still being pushed away.
All you have to do is adjust the height to make sure you don't cause a mass extinction, and there you go, ye olde magic kinetic bombardment.

>>3860370
That's against a level 1 child though. Notice how in genocide Mettaton never fights you in his box form. That might be because he's afraid your 99999 damage will overpower his 999 DF. Just imagine what a level 20 adult would do, or multiple high level adults.
>>3860371
I think with enough determination you can kill anything. If you want to kill a ghost bad enough, you will. So yeah they would give some humans trouble, but there would still be humans out there that could kill them.
>>3860373
>Seriously, if monsters could just make shit like that, how did they ever lose when their enemies wielded metal swords and spears?
The mechs had a severe power generation problem. They simply couldn't run for long enough on current energy sources (magic batteries charged by physically winding) to be practical.

>>3860380
Well, in my own defense, I see people here talking about DRY and DR taking place in the same continuity all the time, so I feel like that was a pretty easy mistake to make. Also the fact that UTY is called UTY and is, in fact, meant to take place in the same continuity as UT.
>>>3860381
Meh, fair enough I guess.
I still think it's a bit of a misnomer to say that these characters are being given a "second chance", since again, most of them have so little character going on that you pretty much have to come up with entirely new characters for them to be in order for them to actually have a direct role in the story, at which point they aren't really "themselves" anymore, but whatever.
I like hmofa too, this just feels a little contrived is all.

>>3860382
I suppose I could come up with an explanation in universe of why that can't work (maybe anything touching the rock is considered either part of the rock or part of the earth, so it can't be held down by weights, only by being directly attached to the Earth), but at this point I think the best answer is Tolken's "Because then there wouldn't be a story".

At a certain point, leaps of logical and logical inconsistencies have to be handwaved for the sake of telling a good story. No one during the course of playing the game is going to have the idea you just laid out there. Hell they probably wouldn't even think of dropping the rocks on people if it were normal anti gravity, the same way most people didn't think of hyper space ramming until it was pointed out to them.

>>3860385
All stories are contrived. All characters are just OCs made up by the writer. And any time someone makes a prequel or a spinoff, they're making OCs out of irrelevant background characters from the source material. That's just how fiction works, and all that really matters is that its a fun story.

>>3860383
>Notice how in genocide Mettaton never fights you in his box form.
That's because he knows better than to engage you directly at first, and also because he (and Alphys) thought his NEO form would be able to take care of you, given that it was (supposedly) much more purposely built to kill humans.
>That might be because he's afraid your 99999 damage will overpower his 999 DF.
That's not quite how defense seems to work in UT. Even if a monster has extremely disproportionately high stats compared to yours, you can always do *some* damage to them by attacking, such as with Photoshop Flowey. (Asriel and the amalgamates are the exceptions, having infinite defense and undefined defense respectively)
Mettaton is one of the only enemies you just flat-out can't damage like that in his base form, so I don't think it's a stretch to say that he might've been able to take you down in that form alone.
>I think with enough determination you can kill anything.
I'm not so sure about that, Frisk's determined enough to resist dying against Asriel, but still not determined enough to be able to damage him at all, so I think there's an upper limit with DT before everyone just starts being at about the same level as each other.
>The mechs had a severe power generation problem.
Monsters like Alphys can make electricity as part of their attacks (we see this when she block some of Flowey's bullets in true pacifist at the end of the game), or alternatively you could use fire monsters like Grillby or Heats Flamesman as living energy sources from their heat energy.
I bet Grillby could make a killing selling energy from boiled water.
>magic batteries charged by physically winding
As someone who's studying to be an electrical engineer, what? I guess you could just say it's using a similar kind of technology that the Core uses to turn geothermal energy into magic energy, but I figure at that point you may as well just use any other power source, since you'd only get out what you put in.

>>3860387
Yeah, I get that, but what I'm saying is it's a little bit weird to say "I'm writing this story to see what these characters would *really* be like!", and then take characters with almost no defined characteristics or relationship, or any major details whatsoever, and write entirely new personalities, supporting details, etc for them.
Like, again, you aren't "giving them a second chance", you've just written entirely new characters wearing those other character's faces.
Sans in DR is a good example of what taking a pre-existing character and dropping them into a different context is actually like, since we've seen enough of how Sans acts in certain situations to be able to get a decent idea of how he might act in other situations, so his character is more consistently "him" between DR and UT, in comparison to say, Monster Kid in UT and Monster Teen in DR.
Clover is largely a blank slate, and Kanako is effectively a non-character, so asking "what would happen if the story was about them?" isn't really the actual question you're asking, because neither one of them actually has any sort of defined characteristics that you could expand upon. The real question being asked in the DRY takes is "what if we had a DR style story starring some original characters who look like the characters from UTY?".
>any time someone makes a prequel or a spinoff, they're making OCs out of irrelevant background characters from the source material.
Not necessarily. Most of the characters mentioned or seen in the prequel trilogy are never even mentioned in the OT, and most returning characters already had fairly well defined personalities to them, so it's easy to imagine how they may have acted many years prior. You can make prequels and spinoffs without making your characters feel weird and forced, they just have to be actual characters, and not voiceless protagonists and Uncle Bens.

>>3860388
>so I don't think it's a stretch to say that he might've been able to take you down in that form alone.
I also don't think its a stretch to say the contrary. Its a grey area.
>Frisk's determined enough to resist dying against Asriel, but still not determined enough to be able to damage him at all,
That was pacifist Frisk. He was determined to spare everyone. Or course he wouldn't want to hurt Asriel.
>Monsters like Alphys can make electricity as part of their attacks
I know, that's how they power these things to begin with. It just takes a lot to power these things. They are very power hungry. If Alphys were to try and power one of things, she would have to spend a few hours charging it just to get a few minutes of run time.
>As someone who's studying to be an electrical engineer, what?
Its fantasy, it doesn't have to make mechanical sense. These things are meant to evoke the feeling of clocks and wind up toys, so that's how they operate. They have big turn keys that you have to spend ages winding to get them to operate. I suppose I could have said spring, but there's not a literal spring in there.

One thing I want to make very clear is that they aren't electrical. I guess if I had to invent a term for it, instead of using magical electricity, they would use magical kinetic energy. What is that specifically? I don't know, and Toby didn't know what magical electricity was either. These things are closer to automatons and seige engines than they are to robots.

>>3860389
That seems like a really uncharitable way to look at it. The way I see it, I'm getting to learn who these characters are alongside seeing their stories. Sure they probably aren't what the original writers had in mind (if they had anything in mind at all) but what happens out of universe gets dealt with by suspension of disbelief.

Kanako was a concept in UTY, one that just wasn't elaborated on at all. This is putting a personality and story to that name. Its like the clone wars in Star Wars. We hear them mentioned as set dressing in the original, then in the prequels we get to see them turned into an actual thing.

>>3860392
>I also don't think its a stretch to say the contrary. Its a grey area.
Eh, sure.
>That was pacifist Frisk. He was determined to spare everyone. Or course he wouldn't want to hurt Asriel.
That same Frisk is also able to damage Flowey just fine even when he has the six human souls, but Asriel's literally invincible, so I think it's probably fair to say that Frisk wouldn't have been able to do too much to him even if they were really trying to either.
>Its fantasy, it doesn't have to make mechanical sense.
I was talking moreso physically, since you're either saying that these things only have wind-up power generation, which would be stupid if they take so long to charge (imagine how much energy it would take to power a car's engine through wind-up power alone, for instance), or they output more power than they receive, which would violate the laws of thermodynamics and cause lots of problems I don't even wanna think about.
I dunno, wouldn't it make more sense to say they use some kind of magic material for power, or as I suggested earlier, have them run on fire monsters? It could be like how the fire nation in Avatar uses their firebending to make their machines go, the ability to just *make* energy on the fly could be really useful if you do it a certain way.
Maybe those glowing crystals found in the underground could be useful, they certainly give off a decent bit of light energy.

>>3860394
>I'm getting to learn who these characters are alongside seeing their stories.
But that's the thing, that's not what's happening. Like, I get it, I really do, I understand wanting to see more of characters you like doing cool things, but when the characters in question have so little going on in the first place, you're not "learning" about them or "expanding on" them, you're just making entirely new characters and calling them those other characters.
>Its like the clone wars in Star Wars. We hear them mentioned as set dressing in the original, then in the prequels we get to see them turned into an actual thing.
Actually, the Clone Wars were first elaborated on in some books that came out before the prequel trilogy, the PT was technically a massive retcon because it entirely changed what the Clone Wars were depicted as in those books into something completely different.
For the best, might I add, but still. And anyway, the OT itself did at least contain some details about what the Clone Wars entailed and how they related to certain specific characters and events in the OT (Obi Wan and Anakin being comrades in the wars, Anakin's fall to the dark side happening at some point towards the end, the Jedi being involved, the Clone Wars' conclusion coinciding with the end of the republic and the beginning of the "dark times" and the empire, etc), so even with as little information about the Clone Wars as the OT gave us, we can still put together some bits and pieces that let us imagine what they may have been like, and how they affected the general state of the galaxy.
Kanako doesn't have that at all. She's the kid of two other characters in the story, she had some friends around the dunes who've noticed she's not around anymore, she wanted to be helpful and got herself killed in the process, that's it. That's all we know. She is as generic as a generic child character can get, almost literally no characteristics whatsoever.

>>3860399
what's wrong with IMAGINING how kanako would be if she grew up instead of being condemned to alphys' sex dungeon for the rest of eternity?

>>3860395
Monster's bodies are made out of magic, and they can use it freely. A fire monster is just using magic to make fire shaped bullets. Any monster could do the same if they wanted to. The only difference is that a fire monster's body is also fire shaped. So they are doing it like the fire nation. It just so happens that their "bending" really isn't enough for this task.

The winding itself is again, to evoke the idea of these being wind up toys or crank powered machines. For an in universe explanation, the winding is just a slow and deliberate way of channeling the monster's natural magic into the machine's battery/spring coil/fly wheel. Similar to how you would wind something IRL instead of beating it with a hammer to charge it with mechanical energy. Bullets are the "beating it with a hammer"

The point of these things is that they're meant to be impressive when you first see them, but impractical once you really examine them. They're prototypes missing one critical component.

>crystals
The way I'm handling them, they're more for channeling magic than holding it. The underground just happens to be lousy with magic, which is why the crystals do things like glow. So these things probably do include the crystals or something that operates on the same principle.

>>3860400
Nothing.
Imagine whatever you want, I'm just saying that I feel like it's pretty forced to flat-out invent new personalities and traits for these "characters" to have in order to justify telling a story about them.
And again, you're not even really imagining "ow kanako would be if she grew up", because again, what character traits of hers are you actually basing your depiction of her on?
Imagine if the prequel trilogy came first, and there was no original trilogy to get information of. What do you "imagine" Luke Skywalker is going to be like when he grows up? Based entirely on what we see of him in Revenge of the Sith? What character traits do you have to base your ideas on, what is there to go off of?
Anything you could imagine wouldn't be "what Luke would be like when he grows up", it would be an entirely new character that you're just projecting onto Luke, since he wouldn't have any actual information to go off of.
That's the same deal with Kanako.
DRY "Kanako" isn't Kanako, it's an entirely new character that you're just calling Kanako for the purposes of the story, it's not actually based on any previously defined character.

>>3860399
There is a Kanako in UTY, we just never learn anything about her in the game. I want to know who she is, what's she like. That's what DRY is. There's a concept there being expanded into an actual character.

> She is as generic as a generic child character can get, almost literally no characteristics whatsoever.
Same as the generic ass war that Obi Wan and Luke's father fought in. We know her name, who her parents were, what she did (died), and how her death lead Ceroba to where she is now.

>>3860403
I don't see how that's forced though. The story has left that blank character shaped space, which is practically an invitation to be filled in. So that's what he did. It only seems natural to me.

And even if its different from what the devs intended, all that matters is that it fits with what few details were presented.

>>3860404
>I want to know who she is, what's she like. That's what DRY is.
Well no, it isn't you've just gone and made an OC and called it Kanako.
Also, to put an end to this CW comparison, the important parts of the CW weren't about the war itself, but the events it influenced, and we already knew about those from the OT. Sure, the specifics of what the war really was were vague, but we know Obi Wan and Anakin fought in it, we know the Jedi were important in it and were destroyed sometime around its end, and we know the end of the war happened roughly around the fall of the republic and the rise of the empire.
*Those* were the important bits you needed to know, and the PT itself wasn't even really about the war itself, it was about elaborating on the events the war was related to.
That's the difference between the CW and Kanako, making up details for the CW is fine because the specifics of the war itself weren't as important as the events connected to it, but making up an entirely new character for Kanako is way more forced because you're making her take an active role in the story, of course her actual character details would matter, which is why the fact that she doesn't *have* any character details is so important.

Guys just ignore what this anon says.
Pretty much he is "if the original creator didn't make it it is an OC and thus worthless" despite this going completely against what Toby meant with the 10th anniversary stream.
Unfortunately it is a somewhat common mindset, and is why some people just detest the idea of fangames even when sometimes the fangames surpass the official content (looking at pokemon).

>>3860405
>I don't see how that's forced though.
I'm saying it's forced because that's making an entirely new character and projecting it onto a pre-existing, but entirely undefined character, when it would make more sense to just make an entirely new character unrelated to Kanako at that point.
The only reason this is a thing to begin with is because people like shipping Clover and Kanako, despite neither one of them ever interacting or being on screen together literally ever, and the latter never knowing of the former's existence.
I don't know why people are so obsessed with the most nothing ship of all time, but it's a bizarrely pervasive phenomenon.

>>3860280
I can tell you I haven't made every OP, multiple have just reposted the image while I've been asleep. I've been wanting to change up the OP but nothing of note in the fangame scene specifically has caught my attention to make something unique.

The change from Yellow to Fangames overall was born from a fear that these threads would get purged here too (obviously we know by now they won't), but like others have said, Yellow's had its time already. There's still weekly threads being made about Yellow on /v/ and being posted here, I think that's enough proof that Yellow isn't forgotten.

That being said, Yellow's anniversary is coming up this December. I can reuse the Yellow OP when we get close to that. Was the same done last year? It'd be a shame if it wasn't.

>>3860406
>Well no, it isn't you've just gone and made an OC and called it Kanako.
I fail to see a meaningful difference. Sure you keep saying these things, but I don't see how they matter.

> because you're making her take an active role in the story
The clone wars had two TV shows and a movie made about them. I think that's a pretty active role.

>which is why the fact that she doesn't *have* any character details is so important.
Then give her some. That's what I want. That's the appeal. To see this ghost of a character made into a real character with character details.

>>3860407
>"if the original creator didn't make it it is an OC and thus worthless"
I have literally been advocating for the creation of original characters this whole time, that's kinda been my point.
And my point hasn't even been that projecting characters onto characters that have literally nothing going on is "worthless" either, I'm saying it's forced, which it absolutely is.
Notice how I haven't actually been saying that DRY is inherently bad or anything? I'm saying it's super fucking contrived, and basically none of these characters have any reason to be the way they are in it, but you could still squeeze a decent story out of that if you tried, I just hope the overall writing is better than the justification for any of this being a thing in the first place.
As long as that last bit's fulfilled, it'll be fine, it'll just still be extremely forced.
Some parts of UTY were forced as hell, like Clover's connection to Martlet, but I still think UTY turned out pretty good.

>>3860409
>when it would make more sense to just make an entirely new character unrelated to Kanako at that point.
It wouldn't though. The whole goal here is defining the undefined character. The motive for doing it is that there's a Kanako with nothing besides a name and a sprite attached to her.

A wholly original OC is a separate thing that doesn't scratch the same itch.

>I don't know why people are so obsessed with the most nothing ship of all time,
They're two kids who got shafted hard in almost the same way in the same game. The similarities were there, alongside the desire to see them happy, so the natural conclusion is to make them kiss. Now they're both happy.

>>3860412
>I fail to see a meaningful difference.
My point being that you aren't "seeing what Kanako would've been like grown up", because the character you've written isn't actually based on any kind of foundation from the character it's supposedly based on, it's just a new character you're saying is another character.
>The clone wars had two TV shows and a movie made about them. I think that's a pretty active role.
Yeah, after the lore for the era had already been written and fleshed out, they didn't just jump straight into the CW right after the OT was done. Hell, they didn't even jump straight into the war in the prequels, we had to get through The Phantom Menace first. Unfortunately.
>To see this ghost of a character made into a real character with character details.
Yeah, I get that, but that's still not Kanako, it's an entirely new character that's just being called Kanako for the purpose of telling an hmofa story.

>>3860413
>I'm saying it's forced, which it absolutely is.
I still don't see how you can call that forced. It just seems like the natural conclusion to see a vague and undefined character and immediately imagine the rest of the character there. Its like a negative space drawing, my brain automatically fills in the gaps.
>I'm saying it's super fucking contrived
By that logic every single piece of fiction is contrived, because the writer has an idea and is constructing the elements of the world to make a story out of it. Whether its made to fit in with another story or wholly original makes no difference.

>>3860413
I mean I am making an original game with characters loosely based on UTY (like the protagonist duo being discount clover and kanako) and an entire new setting that still has 2 worlds like the dark and light world, but different, which I think would fit into your criteria a bit except it not being a fangame but its own original thing
but I still want to do DRY anyway because I like the UTY cast, even if I made absolutely no OC lightners, the only OCs in DRY1 are darkners, exactly because I wanted to explore more the cast of UTY, and sure, they won't be 1:1 to their UTY counterparts, but I still find it fun to mess with those (and its much easier to work with a pre existing base than make something completely from scratch)
I am just kinda confused at your idea of disliking people messing with pre existing characters in a fangame when a fangame by nature is already someone else messing with another person's property/ideas

>>3860416
>The motive for doing it is that there's a Kanako with nothing besides a name and a sprite attached to her.
That's the crux of all this. There's not *a* Kanako with nothing but a name and a sprite attached to her, that's *the* Kanako. That's all she is. That's all she's ever been. This isn't like Gaster, where people had bits and pieces of supporting details and information to go off of to make their own various ideas for what he's like, you're taking a character with literally a minute's worth of screentime and maybe 5 lines of dialogue, and getting way more attached to her than was ever intended. Kanako isn't an underused character that had more potential than the devs let her utilize, she's not a character at all. You could entirely edit her 1(one) scene out of UTY entirely, replace it with Ceroba just explaining what happened for whatever reason, and it literally wouldn't change anything. Kanako is a non-character, she is nothing at all. There is no more of her to see, no personality, no backstory, no motives, nothing, her entire purpose is to act as *someone else's* motivation.
This is like if you got super obsessed with seeing the "missed potential" behind Monster Kid in UT, because he was just such an underutilized character who really needed more room to grow.

>>3860420
>I still don't see how you can call that forced.
I'm calling it forced because the entire game exists primarily to create more content for a ship between two characters with literally no defined character to them at all. Like, if either one of these characters actually had any, say, personality, or traits, or chemistry between them, a lot more people would probably agree on how both of them actually act, rather than literally every single depiction of them being completely unrecognizable from each other.
Like, at this point you aren't even attached to their "characters", you just saw two child sprites and wanted to make them kiss because there's no one else they could possibly be paired with, and ignoring how weird that is in and of itself, it's still pretty fucking forced when you have to come up with an entire new story, world, and personalities for all of them to have just to make it work.

>>3860417
>ecause the character you've written isn't actually based on any kind of foundation from the character it's supposedly based on
Does it need to be? The only reason you have to worry about foundations is to not contradict previously established details. Here that isn't an issue since there aren't any. The story has handed us a blank page and said "draw a Kanako". Regardless of what we put there, it can't be wrong, because there's nothing to say otherwise.

>Yeah, I get that, but that's still not Kanako, it's an entirely new character that's just being called Kanako for the purpose of telling an hmofa story
That's an entirely artificial distinction you're making.

Since we're already using Star Wars examples. What about all the background characters from the movies that got expanded into actual characters in the tv shows and books? Are the just OCs the author called (background character) for the purposes of telling a Star Wars story? Kit Fisto, Commander Cody, Plo Koon, Aura Sing, Wedge Antilles, IG-88, all just OCs larping as the real characters. What if George comes back later and decides to turn some rando that he wrote as a nobody into an actual character? That's what he did with Jabba. The original Jabba in the movie, and the one he wrote the script for has almost nothing in common with the one we got in Return of the Jedi. Or what about all those side characters in the Clone Wars? He did a lot of writing for that?

Hell, what if Master Sword came back and made a Kanako game? Would that just be an OC too?

>>3860422
>I am just kinda confused at your idea of disliking people messing with pre existing characters in a fangame when a fangame by nature is already someone else messing with another person's property/ideas
Again, part of my point here, I *don't* have a problem with using pre-existing characters, when those characters actually have *character* to them, which Clover and Kanako don't.
Taking a character that actually has a defined role and personality to them and putting them in a new context can be interesting because then the general idea is to see how that character would behave in their new circumstance, but that only really works if that character actually has a defined personality to work with, because otherwise you're just writing an entirely new character not actually based on anything, which defeats the premise of "what if the story was about x character?".

>>3860424
> There is no more of her to see, no personality, no backstory, no motives, nothing, her entire purpose is to act as *someone else's* motivation.
And that's why I want there to be more. Its a blank space in an otherwise completed piece screaming at me to fill it in.

The only thing I can take from this is that you have no creativity or at least no drive to be creative when it comes to fiction. Otherwise you would at least get the idea of wanting to turn a nothing character into a something character.
>because he was just such an underutilized character who really needed more room to grow.
I actually do really hope we get to see more of Monster Kid and Snowy in Deltarune. I would even like it if they became party members like Berdly and Noelle.

>>3860425
I think we may just have fundamentally incompatible views of fiction. I look at these things and I see an opportunity to invent whatever character or story I want in that gap. I don't see nothing, I see a space for something. And because its a space, and its open, and naturally encourages me to have ideas, its inviting me to fill it in.

I see a random background character and I don't think "this is all there is to this character, and there is nothing more" instead I think "This character has more to him, I just have to figure out what it is". It doesn't matter how few details I'm given, just the existence of the character is enough.

>>3860426
>Does it need to be?
When the base premise of the story is "what if the story was about this character?', yeah, I'd say that character actually being a real character is probably important.
>That's an entirely artificial distinction you're making.
See the difference between "what if Sans was in this story?" versus "what if I made an entirely new character and called it Sans?". That's the distinction.
>something something george lucas
I promise you even the most no-name, obscure, barely noticed background character from the prequels has a more rigidly defined and displayed character than Kanako.
>That's what he did with Jabba.
The reason that worked with Jabba is because Jabba wasn't directly important on a *personal* level, he was just a threat to one of the main characters, and that's all he needed to be. His motivations, personality, appearance, backstory, none of it was directly important to the plot, just the fact that he had a reason for sending people after Han.
For a character-centered story like DR, all of those traits are *extremely* important to the plot, so not having any of them is an issue.
There is more personality in Cody saying "Come on, when have I ever let you down?" to Obi Wan alone than Kanako has in her one scene in UTY.
>what if Master Sword came back and made a Kanako game? Would that just be an OC too?
Picture for a moment what that would even entail. Why hasn't MasterSword done that? Especially if people love her so much? Sounds like free clout to me, so surely there's a reason he hasn't done that. Maybe it's because he already know Kanako's served her purpose and has no reason to exist beyond that? Could be.
I'd bet that's part of what they meant when they said Kanako became the spoon amalgamate in UT, not because that's genuinely what they planned for her, but because they just wanted to say something easy so people would leave them the hell alone about a character with a minute's worth of screentime and 5 lines of dialogue.

>>3860433
>See the difference between "what if Sans was in this story?" versus "what if I made an entirely new character and called it Sans?". That's the distinction.
didn't stop the hundreds of sans AUs

>Picture for a moment what that would even entail. Why hasn't MasterSword done that? Especially if people love her so much? Sounds like free clout to me
it is because he is done with UTY, and game dev isn't "free clout", game dev is actually one of the hardest creative fields to do and do it right on top of that

>>3860431
Yeah, that's all fine.
You're all missing what I'm saying here, even though I literally typed it out earlier ITT.
Yeah, you can take a random background character and ascribe whatever character traits to them you want, no matter how little character there is to them to begin with, it's not some kind of unforgiveable sin, it's not a crime.
I'm saying it's forced.
Because taking two characters, neither of which has any sort of characteristics whatsoever, and making an entire new story, and setting, and drafting up entirely new personalities for them to have, *just* as an excuse to ship them?
That's pretty fuckin' forced.
Like, people who shipped Frisk with Monster Kid back in the day actually had more ground to stand on here, at least those characters are on screen together.
Again, you can tell a forced story, but that doesn't make it not forced.

>>3860433
>I promise you even the most no-name, obscure, barely noticed background character from the prequels has a more rigidly defined and displayed character than Kanako.
Yeah, I'm sure random background Jedi 1 and 2 who existed solely to fill space in the arena battle had an excellently defined backstory. Or Jedi who dies in space ship, I'm sure he was definitely planned from the start.

Face it, anon. These were all just cool looking guys that George or one of his staff later decided to give a personality and story because they looked cool. No different from giving a this cute girl with a sad story with a happier ending because she's cute.

>>3860434
>didn't stop the hundreds of sans AUs
And those aren't contrived as all hell?
>it is because he is done with UTY, and game dev isn't "free clout", game dev is actually one of the hardest creative fields to do and do it right on top of that
Alright, so why not just release some kind of new, non-game content of her then? He always did like to go on about there being more post-launch plans for UTY, which he also conveniently only brought up once he said he would never do anything with UTY again, so hey, why not just do something with that?
Again, my point proves itself. UTY had some questionable decision making here and there, but leaving Kanako as a non-character wasn't one of them. She did what she had to, she served her purpose, and then she was gone, that's all there was to her.

>>3860436
>I'm saying it's forced.
And I'm saying its not. We look at the same set of starting details, and yet this is the natural conclusion I come to.

>>3860441
>Or Jedi who dies in space ship
Plo Koon? The wise, calm, experienced, Jedi master and council member, who bravely served in the Clone Wars until being tragically killed by his own squad mates during Order 66?

>>3860429
>I actually do really hope we get to see more of Monster Kid and Snowy in Deltarune. I would even like it if they became party members like Berdly and Noelle.
Fishing for SURVEY_2 ideas, what roles could you see them playing?
Asking because besides the characters we already saw in canon (plus a couple new picks for the lategame), I'm having a really hard time coming up with reasons to rope other lightners into the dark world. I have a couple ideas for Catti, Jockington, Sans, and QC (yes really), but they don't feel important enough to warrant bloating the cast.

anyway posting some progress to break up this 100-post long back and forth
I had to completely half of the player's code and a lot of instances elsewhere in the code but I finally got kanako being able to move into separated rooms from cole and even being able to open the menus and battle by herself, which will open up some segments I had in mind, tho it wont be used too much in ch 1 besides a small puzzle segment

>>3860448
Kanako, the adorable, sweet, kind little girl and child of the Ketsukane family, who brought joy into everyone's lives until she was tragically killed by her own mother during a soul serum experiment?

Face it, Plo's just as much a Glup Shitto as Kanako is, if not more, since he wasn't even named on screen.

>>3860447
You are literally having to invent new characters from scratch in order to make this work, that is as forced as shipping gets.
No interactions, no time together on screen, no pre-existing chemistry of any kind, that is forced.
This isn't looking at the same set of details and coming to different conclusions, this is you just not being willing to admit that this is far from the smoothest pairing the world has ever seen.
You know why so many people ship Sans and Toriel? Or Undyne and Alphys? Or Susie and Noelle, or Kris and Noelle, or Kris and Susie or Ralsei or whoever the fuck else? Because those characters actually *interact* with each other, and have some kind of chemistry with each other to the point where people don't have to write up entirely new characters just to make it work.
People only ship KanaClover because they're the same age, and it'd be weird to pair them with anyone else without aging them up, and people in this community like to start witch hunts when people age characters up, so that's off the table for most people.

>>3860455
Sorry anon you just lack The Vision™
If you think just because 2 characters are blank slates in a thing that they can't never be repurposed into something else, then I'm sorry but you just lack the IMAGINATION.
If people didn't want to see more of them there wouldn't be as much fanwork as there (and counting as new stuff with them is made almost daily).

>>3860454
>adorable
Subjective.
>sweet, kind
Subjective.
>little girl and child of the Ketsukane family
Only objectively correct thing here. Other than her name.
>who brought joy into everyone's lives until she was tragically killed by her own mother during a soul serum experiment?
Correction: "was known by several, and killed by her own suggestion.".
So, to be clear, her only firmly established character traits are "girl" and "child".
Meanwhile, Plo Koon was an aged member of the Jedi council, who bravely fought on the front lines of one of the biggest and deadliest wars in the history of the galaxy, and trusted his Clone subordinates (notice how he's flying in front of them leading their fighter formation before Order 66 happens, whereas Stass Allie was much physically closer to her clones on their speeders? Plo Koon clearly trusted and valued his men enough to lead them during battle like that, which is a trait the Clone Wars show would later expand upon), before being struck down by his own men.

>>3860450
>Sans
Can you ditch him and put Snowy in his spot? I think less Sans is a good thing.

As for Snowy's role, he's an ice monster, so he'd have ice powers, which are a big deal in the dark worlds. Maybe someone is trying to use him for his powers, or maybe they've mistaken him for Noelle because they were given the vague description of "white clad monster with ice powers". Maybe you could have a dragon blazers themed dark world where its in the ice palace, and he's been made their king because the boss of that zone was an ice dragon. Meanwhile MK is his chief minion.

They could start out being friendly, wanting Kris to join the "Cool kids" in the ice kingdom, but then things fall apart when they realize he's with Susie and she starts acting a fool. Then they'd be chapter antagonists until the real big bad shows up, or realizes they're in fact not the super powerful prophecy figures he thought they were.

I just think the "all the classmates show up in the dark worlds" is cooler and fits the theme better than S*ns and that shopkeep from snowdin.

>>3860460
>sweet, kind
>Subjective.
She was really nice to dalv, kept bringing him corn while he was in the ruins.

>>3860457
>If you think just because 2 characters are blank slates in a thing that they can't never be repurposed into something else
Jesus fucking Christ, can you read? I have actively not been saying that they can't be repurposed into something else, I've been saying that doing so is extremely forced. Seriously, read my replies.
>>3860436
>>3860413
>>3860403
Read them, read these replies and then actually think about what I am saying instead of imagining™ what I'm saying and replying to that.

>>3860451
I'm already excited for this, it's going to contrast the lack of control you have over Susie in Deltarune very nicely

>>3860455
I'm not drawing these connections for the shipping, I just see a poorly defined character like Kanako and my natural response is to invent all the details she's missing.

>>3860463
The fact that you see it as forced is what shows a lack of creativity. Your view of fiction is too limited.

>>3860465
Okay, well, I'm now talking to multiple people here, but for reference, I'm talking about the guy who said picrel.

>>3860462
>>3860460
I'm pretty sure dina talks about kanako and how everyone in the wild east interacted with her
too bad there isn't that much info, but we know from her room she had friends and was just a regular kid all things considered, as far as we know she had a regular upbringing besides the integrity incident

>>3860468
Buddy, being creative has nothing to do with the ability to recognize something as being forced, those are two different things.
It was pretty creative of George Lucas to initially come up with the idea of Obi Wan's force ghost coming back to life at the end of Return of the Jedi, and have him kill Emperor Palpatine.
It was also, and this has been said by multiple people who worked on the original trilogy, including Lucas himself, inconceivably shitty writing, and he has said many times that he's glad he was talked out of it.
Something can be creative and still be forced as hell, creativity doesn't even necessarily mean "good", it just means being imaginative. Fahrenheit's a pretty creative game, didn't stop it from being shit.

>>3860469
That's dryanon, I'm the one who's been saying its not forced because its the natural conclusion.

>>3860470
>but we know from her room she had friends and was just a regular kid all things considered
So again, her defining traits are "regular child", and people are completely obsessed with her.
That's maybe a bit concerning.

>>3860471
>Buddy, being creative has nothing to do with the ability to recognize something as being forced,
No, it does. You just lack the creativity to naturally draw these connections on sight. Leading to you thinking that other people are trying to force them when they draw them.

Whether or not something is shit writing is not really relevant here, since something can be forced and good writing, or natural and bad writing.

>>3860473
most works age her (and clover) up
thing is everyone grows up different so you end up with slightly different interpretations, and it depends also if they aged up regularly or with time shenanigans/coma (which is common due to her being amalgamated). of course those that do that have her end a more "basic" personality since she was in a coma for who knows how long in those

>>3860472
>its the natural conclusion.
Well you see the thing about that is that it isn't.
If you have to rewrite literally the entire story and world the characters exist in, as well as write new characters for the two characters in question to actually have, in order for either of these characters to even know each other as people, then you are literally forcing the story to bend over backwards just to accommodate these two characters.
That's forced.
Like, I'm sorry, that's literally what that is.
That is the most clear cut, cut and dry, open and shut, cock and balls case of forced I've ever seen, I'm sorry you apparently can't tell what words mean, but this is forced.

>>3860474
>You just lack the creativity to naturally draw these connections on sight.
No, I saw parallels between them when I played, in the sense that they're both kids who did something for something bigger than themselves, and subsequently died in the process, but shipping them makes no sense.
I'm perfectly creative, trust me, but that doesn't stop me from calling things like they are, and I'm calling this forced because it's absolutely forced.
You're not calling it forced because you like it, but that doesn't make it not forced.

>>3860474
>since something can be forced and good writing
Again, read my posts.
I even went and gathered them up in a single post just a few replies back, just go up and check.

>>3860476
>>3860477
>>3860478
Its 3 am, and we have been going in circles for two hours. I don't think either of us will convince the other on this issue.

I'll just end with this. UTY is a miserable universe where all the characters end up miserable, so the natural conclusion to seeing that is to create a universe where they aren't miserable. One of the characters that needs to be saved is Kanako, and part of that saving is giving her a personality. At that point. I have a cute fox girl and a human guy who live near to each other and have a lot in common, why not ship them together for maximum happiness. And at that point why not send them on adventures with all the other characters that didn't get much attention in UTY? Just seems like the natural response to me.

>>3860479
>Just seems like the natural response to me.
See, the *desire* for the characters to have a happy ending is natural, and that's not what I'm arguing about. I'm saying that rewriting an entire continuity just to make two characters who literally never interact with each other, one of whom has no idea the other even exists, is forced. It's forced like UnderFell is forced, you're taking a previously existing setting and making a bunch of extremely contrived changes to it for the sake of a desired storytelling purpose.
Natural to want to do that? Sure. Inherently good or bad? No. Forced? Absolutely.
You wouldn't have to change so much about the source material if it weren't because then it would *actually* be natural.

>>3860481
Its just a combination of small natural conclusions, the combination of which is one big natural conclusion.

>>3860482
Still forced.
Like, I'm sorry, that's what that means. If you have to fundamentally alter so much of the source material to make it happen, that only goes to show how much it was never going to happen to begin with.
It's forced, it is a forced pairing. Again, truly tragic you can't understand what the word "forced" means, but that doesn't make it mean something else.

>>3860461
>Can you ditch him and put Snowy in his spot? I think less Sans is a good thing.
>I just think the "all the classmates show up in the dark worlds" is cooler and fits the theme better than S*ns and that shopkeep from snowdin.
I'm inclined to agree, but no, Sans and the shopkeep would be way more relevant to the dark world they would appear in. The alternative is to not include them at all, which is actually what I think I'll do.

I do like the sound of the Snowy/MK subplot you've laid out. There's a dark world I have in mind where it may fit, but I fear it may be too disconnected to the main conflict at hand.

I really do like the idea of "all the classmates appear in the dark world". It's just that the story I have in mind doesn't seem like it could satisfyingly involve them. Without going into too much detail, I think it's way too personal to Noelle, Susie, and especially Kris for everyone to be relevant.

What does fit perfectly is that Dragon Blazers idea you mentioned. I posted this concept sketch a while back, and the dark world on the left being themed after it would make so much thematic sense. That big building in the middle could totally be the Ice Palace.

I really do love how we've just been having this multi-hour long argument over semantics and writing while some poor bastards try and actually talk about fangame development.

>>3860483
I feel sad that we will never understand each other. I don't want to end this discussion negatively, so instead I'll thank you for being clear and precise with your wording, and hope that we can one day come to see each other's points of view.

>>3860487
I'd accuse them of intentionally derailing if this wasn't standard UTDR autism

>>3860484
> The alternative is to not include them at all, which is actually what I think I'll do.
I hope by that you mean Sans and the shopkeep. I really dislike Sans.

>but I fear it may be too disconnected to the main conflict at hand.
There's probably a way you could tie it in, but you could just as easily make disconnected from the main conflict work. Maybe these two just end up being a really inconvenient speed bump in your journey that you desperately wish would fuck off. Maybe the real big bad of the chapter is just using them to keep you busy while it does its evil schemes, and that's why Susie is being so hostile to them. There's some pressing matters, and she pulls out her bully schtick to get them out of the way as fast as possible, only because this is their power fantasy, it backfires and turns them into antagonists that take up a sizeable chunk of that dark world.

Now they've got a justification for being there, some potential for funny scenes, and a good character moment for Susie.

>I think it's way too personal to Noelle, Susie, and especially Kris for everyone to be relevant.
That's one of the main problems with Deltarune though. You said you wanted to fix grievances with Deltarune, well that's a big one.

>>3860488
That's the thing, I'm not even disagreeing with you on wanting to see the end result at this point. Like yeah, I don't particularly care for KanaClover specifically for the reasons briefly™ gone over above, but I can appreciate an hmofa story when i see it, I'm just pointing out that, by the context of the story they both originally debuted in, the pairing itself is pretty forced, narratively speaking.
It just is, you are bending the continuity of a story in ways that are profoundly contrived for the sake of reaching a desired worldstate with which you can tell a story, it was forced when DustTale did it, it was forced when SwapTale (not UnderSwap, different thing) did it, it's forced writing for the sake of being able to play around with some characters in a different way.
Back in the day people would just shrug and call in crackfic, or continuity break, or more recently, an AU, because they acknowledged that the circumstances necessary for the state of the world's story to exist as such for this story to be told in the first place were so contrived and forced that there was no way it could happen without a fundamental change to the context in which the characters exist, which is, in short, forced.

>>3860487
Bold of you to assume those groups aren't one and the same.

>>3860492
I don't think AUs are inherently forced either. I just don't think we're going to come to an agreement on this issue, anon. All we're doing is moving the thread closer to the bump limit.

>>3860494
>I don't think AUs are inherently forced either.
Not all of them maybe, but I think I made some pretty decent comparisons when it comes to AUs centered around character interactions, like with DustTale and SwapTale.
Anyone here remember SwapTale? I actually thought it had an interesting premise, even if it was forced as all hell.
Kinda dumb that Toriel would just fucking kill Sans like that though.

>>3860495
Anon, you're not gonna convince me DRY is forced.

>>3860496
Well at that point you're just blatantly disagreeing about the definition of a word, which you're wrong about, so convincing you is besides the point.

>>3860491
>I hope by that you mean Sans and the shopkeep. I really dislike Sans.
Yes, that's correct.

>Now they've got a justification for being there, some potential for funny scenes, and a good character moment for Susie.
Actually, what you described makes me think it could fit in another dark world. The one I thought of before (the Dragon Blazers one) is probably too heavy for a subplot like that, but the one preceding it could actually work pretty well. I'm still ironing out ideas for the main conflict there, but it would make a lot of sense for the main antagonist to try and distract and misdirect the Fun Gang as much as possible.
The Dragon Blazers one is the dark world that I was thinking of throwing Catti and Jockington in, for what it's worth. Primarily because it also heavily features Noelle, and Catti is said to be one of her closer friends who would rightfully be concerned about her and have good reason to tag along. Based off your suggestions, I will more seriously consider how to make the idea work.

>That's one of the main problems with Deltarune though.
Could you elaborate more on your opinion here? I'm particularly interested in ways you think it detracts from Deltarune's story, and what you believe an ideal alternative could look like.

>>3860498
>The Dragon Blazers one is the dark world that I was thinking of throwing Catti and Jockington in
So what are you going to do about the ice dragon boss, that you counter intuitively have to use ice magic on to defeat.
>Could you elaborate more on your opinion here
It has all these good characters in it, but then they get swept aside for more of the same old same old with Susie, Kris, Ralsei, and occasionally lesbianism with Noelle. I want to see more of the fun side characters that Toby seems intent on shoving out of the way. I'd like a different classmate every chapter, sort of like how Berdly and Noelle showed up in chapter 2.

>>3860503
>So what are you going to do about the ice dragon boss, that you counter intuitively have to use ice magic on to defeat.
Not gonna lie I forgot about that. Noelle's in the Dragon Blazers chapter, so she gets to fulfill the role. Ralsei also has fire magic by then, so the elemental weakness bait and switch works here too.
I probably wouldn't follow Dragon Blazers to a T in the chapter, and I'd probably change some details about it to fit SURVEY_2's new story anyway.

>I want to see more of the fun side characters that Toby seems intent on shoving out of the way. I'd like a different classmate every chapter, sort of like how Berdly and Noelle showed up in chapter 2.
My original plan did at least feature a new party member each chapter: Noelle and Berdly return, Toriel actually does stuff now, the Dragon Blazers chapter's whole gimmick is a large cast of lightners, and the last couple dungeons give you a different party than usual. The difference is the classmates weren't a part of that (besides Berdly), but you've spurred me to look into making some adjustments.
Now that I think about it, most of the lightners I had in mind had a big role in Undertale, so this change is for the better.

>>3860375
Oh, I just wanted to come back to this, like, four and a half hours late, and say that while I could see the idea of an empire in decline not being willing to see itself as such and still proclaiming itself as "ruling the earth" (see the modern day United States of America for example), I feel like it's worth pointing out that the intro to UT doesn't actually seem to be from the perspective of anyone actually living in the world of UT itself, and rather seems to be some generic intro describing the the events preceding the fall of the first fallen human, so I'd make the argument that in-universe perspective on the status of the monster empire wouldn't necessarily have any bearing on what the intro would say.

>>3860508
MK's dark world design should look like Undyne's armor, but like a sillier version of it.

>>3860509
I will address that in the game.

>>3860108 (OP)
Reposting from last thread.
TC!Underfell finally has another devlog after more than a year.
https://gamejolt.com/p/october-2025-devlog-10th-anniversary-tribute-jkmtqbuv
Frisk and Flowey have been redesigned. The reasons given in the devlog for the redesigns are that old Frisk is too loyal to the established "Canon-Fell" design and that they wish to differentiate them more into a unique "Colossus-Fell" direction. The lessened shading and saturation of Frisk is to make them fit better into the background. For Flowey's new design, they say that they gave more him of a mane-like feel for the petals to maybe characterize him as rebellious due to Toriel not letting him have longer hair when he was Asriel.
The team's current goal is to have the first chapter finished by the end of July 2026.

>>3860511
Alright, fair.
Also, about what you said to my unnecessarily detailed idea for magic kinetic bombardment; even if most "normal" people wouldn't necessarily think of something like that, there are a lot of people out there who love looking for weird logical consequences of relatively detailed systems like that, so more people like me are bound to turn up at some point. It's just that most people like me are too busy playing Dwarf Fortress or being hounded by the ATF.

>>3860513
Its 4:30, so I'm too tired to remember them at the moment, but I am certain Undertale has plenty of "plot holes" like that of its own. At a certain point the only answer is, "because then I wouldn't have a story". Its the same reason Star Wars has dog fights that obey the laws aerodynamics in space.

>>3860514
>Its the same reason Star Wars has dog fights that obey the laws aerodynamics in space.
You actually can still have dog fights in space, they'd just be a bit floatier and more based on angular momentum. Go watch BattleStar Galactica if you wanna see what that's like.
Anyway yeah, UT has weird things like that too, like that one I brought up in a thread a few months back about whether you could engage in sexual choking with a monster partner, since the actual effect of the "attack" dealt and received by each party is determined by how much either side actually wants to hurt and be hurt by each other, which would make stuff like that difficult.
Really, when you set up a system with very weird but specific rules like that, it's only a matter of time before someone asks if you can get hard in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.
The answer's no by the way, it's too cold.

>>3860108 (OP)
Revival's Underfell has an update as thanks for 8K followers on Game Jolt.
https://gamejolt.com/p/october-2025-8k-followers-underfell-s-10th-anniversary-xiee6yjj
Official designs of Papyrus and Sans revealed.
Prototype cutscene of the introduction of their OCs, the moth twins.
https://youtu.be/7EjP3SOdEKE
Battle theme of the moth twins.
https://youtu.be/mcHyTNNbc3w

>>3860492
>It just is, you are bending the continuity of a story in ways that are profoundly contrived for the sake of reaching a desired worldstate
for DRY2 a lot of the things i've written are more the "result" of characters simply being thrown into a different environment.
for example,
>starlo, put him in a more serious environment with less wiggle room than the underground, cowboy thing is almost stomped out completely. he becomes a general community leader thanks to charisma.
>martlet, being a police officer is much more serious than a royal guard. so at some point she tries out woodworking and sticks with it.
>dalv, librarian, writes kids books. shouldn't need explanation.
>chujin, owner of tech shop with a distaste for humans born from past events in his life.
some non-characters need more extrapolation,
>rosa, the little bit we have tells us that she's bold, arrogant, and thinks very highly of herself. so i've turned her into the ultimate example of "i dont care what YOU think"
>kanako, we only have the facts that she thought herself a burden and wanted to be a superhero. so she'd probably be more tomboyish if allowed to grow up and have the option, baseball and the kanabo are good choices.
>sadie, she would rather sit on the playground alone than play with her other friends. maybe she's a bit shy, maybe she doesnt like to be with other people, maybe its her way of coping with kanako just disappearing. i've personally written her as a mix of shy and wanting to be alone.
as for kanakoXcole...
>mylo is also in the town, taking the [murderer] part of her and turning it to [bully]
>kanako's her target one day
>cole's sense of justice as the yellow soul human has him stop mylo
>kanako's intrigued because this goes against almost everything chujin taught her about humans, she gets curious about cole, and eventually they become inseparable friends

>>3860517
now, i am not going to argue. its 4:34AM and im going to sleep.
point of all this is, i just want you to understand that there's a big difference between "forcing things" by completely warping characters like the vast majority of AUs...
...and simply making a new story using existing characters.
sometimes having to add to a character is inevitable, especially if one of the big focuses is to give lesser characters love that they didnt get from the original story. but 'proper' extrapolations can be made from just a few lines and what/where the character does/is

>>3860517
Okay wait, you're DRY2 guy, one of the other guys was the DRY1 guy, who the hell was the third guy then? Just some guy? Were you always in that argument or did you just now show up?

>>3860515
>You actually can still have dog fights in space, they'd just be a bit floatier and more based on angular momentum. Go watch BattleStar Galactica if you wanna see what that's like.
Even those aren't scientifically accurate. Space fighters wouldn't be a thing. It'd just be drone swarms and long range missile and laser fights where most of it trying to predict where your opponent is going to be a few hours or days from now.
>The answer's no by the way, it's too cold.
Skill issue

>>3860519
i just showed up now and the other guy is just some guy.
im sleeping now, if you want to leave a proper response feel free but i wont get to it for ~8 hours.

>>3860519
that third guy was indeed just some guy
t. that guy

>>3860520
It'd just be drone swarms and long range missile and laser fights where most of it trying to predict where your opponent is going to be a few hours or days from now.
That depends on a lot of things. In the context of BSG, neither side has laser technology, they each only have a finite amount of missiles, and the humans don't use networked computers on their ships because the Cylons have the ability to interface directly with networked machines and manipulate them to do what they want, which is how they turned off a bunch of human pilots ships mid flight and killed them.
So, no drones, no lasers, and both sides want each other dead much more immediately than to wait hours or days for a projectile to hit from across a star system. Also, their FTL systems make it pretty easy to just dodge any super long range projectiles anyway, so that's not too much of a problem.

>>3860522
Mm, great.

>>3860523
The Cylons would still be better served replacing their fighters with more missiles or suicide drones, and the colonials really have no reason to still be using guns on their fighters considering the tech level they're at. Even simple heat seeking missiles would give an incredible advantage over guns, and they very obviously have the tech for radar guided missiles.

Its a setting built around having cool friction free dog fights in space, and everything exists to serve that.

>>3860517
>>3860521
Well, if you're doing this for the sake of shipping KanaClover, I'd still argue that constructing an entire alternate continuity for them to exist in just so a specific sequence of events can happen which leads them to getting together would probably still qualify as being "forced", just because it required so much alteration to begin with, but honestly? Not bad. This one I can at least see fitting the relatively barebones characters Clover (yes I know it's Cole okay I just don't feel like alternating the name every time) and Kanako have in UTY, with Clover acting largely because of their belief in "justice", and with Kanako...
Alright, well, Kanako still has no basis for being literally anything at all, but with how willing she was to throw herself at her father's science experiment, I'd say her initially believing what Chujin said about humans at least makes some kind of sense.
So, alright, fine, you get a pass on that front specifically, from me, a person who's opinions became weirdly front and center in this thread through no fault of my own.
However, and I forget if you were the guy I had that discussion with last time, I'm still not sure it makes a whole lot of sense for Chujin himself to harbor the same sort of feelings towards humans in the world of DR, given how the specific context for *why* he hated humans in UT just doesn't exist in DR, as well as the fact that other characters who were much more openly hostile against humans don't apparently have any sort of particular feelings against humans whatsoever, so it still feels a bit weird that *just* Chujin would retain that aspect of his UT universe counterpart, but meh.
So, I retain that the idea in and of itself is still forced just to make this all happen to begin with, but at least your execution seems alright.
We're done here.

>>3860528
>The Cylons would still be better served replacing their fighters with more missiles or suicide drones
Well, technically the Cylon Raiders (the standard Cylon fighter) is a drone, since there isn't a person in it. To be specific, it's a metal ship filled with artificial neurons and internal organs that compose the ship's "pilot". It's a meat ship. It's filled with meat.
>colonials really have no reason to still be using guns on their fighters considering the tech level they're at.
Actually, aside from the FTL and I guess the artificial gravity (although that second one is never directly referred to in-universe if I recall correctly), the Colonial fleet's technology isn't actually too far in advance of our own. What's left of it anyway, the Galactica itself is considered an out-of-date vessel by the time the show starts, and everything on board is analog.
Anyway, as for why they don't use more missiles, it's because missiles are powerful and they can't go wasting them every time they get into a fight, especially their nuclear missiles. If you haven't seen the show, the entirety of the twelve colonies planetside presence in their (technically) home system is eradicated, with each planet being completely glassed by nuclear weapons from a surprise Cylon invasion, nearly 40 years after the Cylons were last heard from.
So basically, resources are extremely scarce, and they can't go wasting them, because they won't have the chance to replenish them any time soon.

not tired, unfortunate.
>>3860533
>I'd still argue that constructing an entire alternate continuity for them to exist in just so a specific sequence of events can happen which leads them to getting together would probably still qualify as being "forced"
im trying to keep it 100% canon compliant to deltarune, planned things in a way that should any reveals fuck with current plans, the infringing thing can very easily be changed to fix compliancy with minimal obtrusion to the story's events.
> I'm still not sure it makes a whole lot of sense for Chujin himself to harbor the same sort of feelings towards humans in the world of DR, given how the specific context for *why* he hated humans in UT just doesn't exist in DR
two things, the first is that i've kinda focused a major part of the story around that and i dont feel like rewriting it. the second? i just think its a funny trait to carry over.
that said he can very easily be given content for the why. like him having miserable experiences in the past that would make even a saint crack. and since i probably am the same person, i'll just repeat that i think its something that really shouldnt be elaborated on too hard. the "why" isnt a focus, and there's the question of "will the answer result in a better "chujin"?" the answer is "probably not", so its better to not take the risk, and limit it to implications of what happened.

>>3860475
Hi, yeah, I aged them up because I really didn't wanna write with child characters honestly.

The way I've written Kanako is entirely based off of the little evidence we get in-game, which is the examination dialogue in her room, the flashback, and sometimes quotes from other characters talking about her.

There's a lot of drawings in her room, a stockpile of books in a basket, and in a corner is a bunch of "building bricks" (legos probably) along with a stuffed animal. The home-made game console had a game called "Surface Tycoon" in it, presumably some kind of management simulator.

So because of that stuff, I've tried to depict her as being relatively gifted in intellect, a bit nerdy, and into creative arts. And the whole painting powers thing that's just taken straight from Okami lmao


Naturally the amount of content given for Kanako is nowhere close to as big as what the characters like Ceroba & Starlo get, but there's still a bit there to base writing her character off of if you dig for it.

Anyways, the UTY devs themselves have the same stance on this sort of thing as the one Toby presented in the anniversary stream, which was essentially "Just go make up your own thing and have fun with it".

>>3860541
>im trying to keep it 100% canon compliant to deltarune
Oh so YOU'RE the one I was thinking of. God damnit, so one of my earlier points in the argument was actually valid, it's just that "DRY" has become so nebulous that no one can keep track of who's talking about what anymore.
Alright, well, whatever.
As for that Chujin thing, while you probably could just replace the human-monster war with some kind of personal motivation for him, I stand by what I said in the previous thread in that if it ends up boiling down to a "Why'd you fuck Debbie?" thing I'm still just gonna call that bad writing at that point.
>"will the answer result in a better "chujin"?" the answer is "probably not"
I mean, forcing him to confront the reason why he holds those sorts of beliefs could also make him realize that he doesn't actually have as valid a reason for harboring those beliefs in the first place, which could actually make him a better person if he chose to try and reform afterwards.
Anyway to circle back to the initial starting point of all this, I'd argue that, even while trying to maintain some kind of compliance with DR's lore, it's also a bit forced for Clover/Cole/Whoever to end up in the same general area as the other UTY characters anyway, since the context for why they'd be there would be entirely different from the context of why they went to Mt.Ebott in UTY.

>>3860547
>it's also a bit forced for Clover/Cole/Whoever to end up in the same general area as the other UTY characters anyway
to be fair, could the same not be said for deltarune itself?
for all the UT characters to end up in one central location?

>>3860550
Yes.
Alright, glad that's wrapped up.

>>3860550
Okay, to answer this somewhat more seriously, maybe, depending on what the connection between UT and DR actually ends up being. If the scratch theory ends up being correct, which it may very well be based on Gerson's dialogue in DR, then no, it'll make perfect sense and the link between DR and UT will be clear. Otherwise yes, it'll be weird and forced.
I actually made the argument earlier that having a DRY take set in the same continuity as DR itself could work if the idea was for it to be a prequel/side story to DR the same way UTY was for UT, with the characters in DRY somehow ensuring that the scratch happens at the end of DR, thereby dooming themselves to become their UTY counterparts.
That would actually have made sense, as opposed to just plopping UTY characters into a DR setting and having them deal with some entirely unrelated situation that has nothing to do with anything.

>>3860407
Are you being dead ass? That anon wasn't shitting on people for using OCs in their story. He mealy pointed out that we don't get enough characterization from Clover and Kanako in UTY. Meaning whoever uses them as characters has to fill out the blanks.

>>3860481
Out of curiosity what about UnderFell is forced? Is it the leap from the OG characters to their UF counterparts or does drastically reducing the amount of thier redeeming qualities ruin the general theme of OG UT? Do you think that very concept of UnderFell is flawed?

any news besides underfell?
>>3860110
nice, best of luck dry1anon

>>3860639
Alright, a quick answer to this before I log off.
I think the standard UF everyone typically refers to is a pretty forced AU because of how much it changes the characters to no longer even slightly resemble themselves from a writing standpoint. Sans being turned from a comedian hiding a stoic nihilistic interior into a cowardly lackey for Papyrus, Papyrus going from a goofy, incompetent, but well meaning person into just being Dedan from OFF, etc. UF changes the various cast members so much that they aren't even just evil versions of the UT cast, they're different characters entirely.
>Do you think that very concept of UnderFell is flawed?
You know what? No. You know why? Because I've actually seen UF done well. I've seen an interpretation of UF so good, that I actually really wish it became the default depiction of the AU, because of how well it nails how the writing for an idea like UF *should* be.
You may or may not know the comic I'm talking about, but it's called "Sans hates women". Yes, I know, and no, that's not actually what it's about, the title was just based on a silly UT roblox joke username, the actual comic is really good.
Basically, Sans hates women was an interpretation of UF where the various characters actually act like themselves, but notably more hostile towards each other and Frisk, but still retaining their core features. For example, the version of Papyrus seen in the comic is still a fairly goofy character who likes making puzzles and traps, but now his dynamic with Sans is that Sans wants him to hurry up and take Frisk's soul so he can get promoted to the royal guard faster, while Papyrus wants to take things slow, insisting that there's an art to the matter of capturing a human. Meanwhile, Sans himself is still a fairly comedic and laid back character, but he takes his job of being a royal sentry more seriously and is a much more active threat to Frisk throughout Snowdin.
Point is, this is the one really good UF take I've seen.

>>3860535
>Well, technically the Cylon Raiders (the standard Cylon fighter) is a drone,
But its one built for gun fighting, which makes no sense. It if it made sense it would be nothing bunch engine, sensors, cylon brain, and payload, maybe with hardpoints for additional missiles.

>the Colonial fleet's technology isn't actually too far in advance of our own
They're about on par with us in terms of their weapons, but have had jet fighters for much longer, as shown by the Caparica TV series and the colony wars that happened even before it.

>it's because missiles are powerful and they can't go wasting them every time they get into a fight,
I'm not talking about anti ship missiles or cruise missiles, I'm talking about air to air missiles. Those are small, super common, and are literally unbeatable by gun armed aircraft, if you go out with your gun armed space ships against fighters armed with air to air missiles, you will lose well before getting in range of your enemy. That's how air to air fights have been done since the 50s on Earth, and that's why every fighter aircraft designed since the 50s has been designed to use them as its primary weapon.

If it were realistic, all of those vipers would be armed with A2A missiles, as would the Cylon Raiders, (if they were even fighters at all) and would've been that way since before the first Cylon war.

These ships shouldn't even have guns on them, let alone use them as much as they do.

>scarce resource
They still would have started the war with every fighter carrying them, and the Cyclons would be using them freely, and Valkyrie, which has an onboard factory capable of building whole 4th gen equivalent Viper MK 7s would have no issue building some sidewinders. Yet even the MK 7 Vipers seem to be gun only from day 0.

The reason they don't use them is because the director wanted to make a show about space dogfights, not about space BVR combat. Its not a realistic setting.

>>3860662
>It if it made sense it would be nothing bunch engine, sensors, cylon brain, and payload, maybe with hardpoints for additional missiles.
Yeah, it basically is. It's the functional parts of the ship, the ship's meaty bits, and fuck all else, it's not a crewed vessel in any capacity. There are other Cylon ships meant for carrying Cylon Centurions, but those are dedicated transport vessels, and a separate ship class entirely.
The reason Raiders are built for gun fighting is because outfitting every Raider with missiles would be resource heavy, and also it would severely limit the amount of firepower an individual ship could put out, since you can carry far fewer missiles than you can bullets. Also, don't underestimate the power of bullets in space, space debris the size of coins traveling fast enough can have a lot of kinetic energy behind them, that's why Kessler syndrome is such an issue in real life.
Also, there are Cylon ships meant for carrying explosive weapons, and they're a different kind of ship.
>I'm talking about air to air missiles.
The Galactica was about to be decommissioned at the start of the series before the Cylons invaded, they probably don't have any air-to-air missiles. It's kind of a miracle the Galactica had any munitions or crew compliment at all given the circumstances actually.
Look, unless we really wanna derail this thread into being about BSG, I think we can just say the dog fights themselves are fairly physically accurate in terms of how the ships involved actually behave, and there are some pretty decent in-universe reasons for each side not using certain weapons against the other.
There is also the fact that the Cylons don't actually *want* to exterminate the remnant of the colonial fleet, since they want to follow them as they uncover the path to earth, which was their end goal, so I think that's a pretty decent reason for the Cylons not just jumping in and shredding everyone.

>>3860662
Okay, I wanna go into this a bit more.
You do understand why bullets would be super deadly in space combat, right?
In air combat, bullets have issues. Air resistance, friction, air compression, the gravitational pull of the planet affecting their trajectory, etc.
In space, you don't have to worry about any of that. No air resistance, no significant gravitational pull affecting your aim, no friction, nothing.
Just a fast, small, hard to see object, smacking into your hull as fast as when it came out of the barrel. And when you're fighting something that needs air to survive, like a human? Sometimes just a single round is enough, as long as it goes through the cockpit and depressurizes the ship's interior, then they're fucked.
A single missile can destroy a ship, but unless you're firing that missile off real damn close to your target, a missile can be evaded, or shot down, or otherwise made a non-issue. A piece of shrapnel the size of a quarter traveling several times the speed of sound? Little harder to reliably dodge, and still very deadly depending on where it hits. If it hits your engines, you're a sitting duck, it hits your cockpit, you're dead. And all it takes is just one or two rounds.
Like I said before, for the purpose the Raiders are used for, standard munitions are more than fine for the job.

>>3860671
>Also, don't underestimate the power of bullets in space
That's cool if you're attacking a stationary, non-maneuvering target that's going to stay in the orbit of one planet, doesn't mean shit if its two space fighters going at it in deep space. Missiles have much longer range than guns, are much more accurate, and can not be dodged or evaded. So instead of needing 2 to 4 guns and dozens of rounds to kill one raider, you just use one missile. Same goes for the cylons. Instead of wasting time closing to knife fighting range with vipers and giving them an advantage due their better pilots, then could just get a missile lock and shoot them down from miles away.

>and they're a different kind of ship.
But they shouldn't be. There's a reason we don't have dedicated light and medium bombers anymore and haven't since WW2, it just makes sense to have the fighters also carry explosives.


> they probably don't have any air-to-air missiles
They didn't have anything apart from some Vipers for CAP. They had to go to that ammo depot to get all their munitions. And at that point why would the depot have everything from rifle rounds and auto canon rounds, to nuclear missiles and 16 inch shells, but no A2A missiles specifically. Or what about Valkyrie, it was a brand new fully armed battlestar, complete with onboard factory to produce everything it needed to fight a war by itself, yet for some reason its brand new MK 7 Vipers lacked A2A missiles.

>>3860677
>a missile can be evaded
Not by anything with a human pilot

>shot down
not by something as small as a Viper


> A piece of shrapnel the size of a quarter traveling several times the speed of sound
Do you not know how air to air missiles work? They use shrapnel. They just get within the general area of their target, detonate their payload, and then the cloud of shrapnel is what does the damage. That's better than a bullet in every way.

The chief problem with guns in modern air combat is that bullets are slow and unguided, which means they have miserable range. If someone shoots at you, you just get out of the way, that's provided they can even get a bead on you to begin with. With a missile, your radar sights them further away that the human eye can see, then it fires a missile at much higher speed than a bullet, which then chases down the target. In space this only makes the advantes of missiles even greater, because now the earth isn't there to get in the way of your radar and there's no friction to force your missiles to burn up all their fuel.

>Like I said before, for the purpose the Raiders are used for,
Until a single Cylon raider with A2A missiles shows up and kills the whole squad without ever getting within gun range. And a Viper with A2As would absolutely destroy a squadron of gun armed Raiders before they ever even saw the Viper.

for the love of God, get a room

>>3860687
Alright, look, I have to go to sleep, for like 2 hours, so we can continue this later when I'm barely coherent and wanna fucking die, but basically, bullets can be extremely useful in space combat even against moving targets, especially against moving targets, because then the velocity of the bullet can combine with the velocity of the target (depending on the direction in which the target is moving) and make the projectile deal even more damage to the target. Also, Cyclons are computers, obviously they can perform the kinds of calculations necessary for leading their shots, we see them do that all the time.
>Missiles have much longer range than guns, are much more accurate, and can not be dodged or evaded.
You know fighter pilots have dodged missiles in real life, right? I genuinely don't know why you're acting like missiles are some kind of undefeatable trump card, they miss their targets all the time in actual air-to-air combat. And in space, where air resistance isn't an issue and the orientation of a craft has no bearing on it's movement if it's already moving at a certain speed, a pilot could absolutely turn themself to face an incoming missile and try and shoot it down, as they move in the opposite direction of the missile, that's how movement in space works.
You're basing your argument off the idea that missiles are somehow completely unbeatable in every circumstance, and that there's no reason to ever not use them, when in reality there's only so many missiles you can pack into a vessel like that, and unless the enemy has all decided to bunch up for no reason, you're only ever going to get one kill per missile if they even hit their target, which means it just isn't an effective way of dealing with entire squads. Knowing how to maneuver your craft and lead shots with smaller projectiles that do lots of damage per individual shot and which you can carry hundreds or thousands of is.

>>3860696
I'm not continuing this argument later. We've had enough of this shit cluttering the thread.

My entire was that its stupid to examine Undertale with space battler logic. It ruins the fun for everyone, like its doing right now.

>>3860699
Fine, whatever.
Also, for your information, Cylon Raiders *do* carry missiles, they just don't always use them because missiles aren't useful in every situation.

>>3860553
>If the scratch theory ends up being correct,
That's a big if, and it goes pretty hard against Toby calling it a parallel story. Its not parallel if one comes after the other. Also goes against his twit longer where he says the UT world is as you left it.

This is just how alternate universes work. If its forced that literally every alternate timeline story ever is forced.

>>3860628
He was shitting on the activity of doing that.

>>3860704
>Also goes against his twit longer where he says the UT world is as you left it.
I think you're confused about the order of things here, the scratch theory wouldn't conflict with the UT world being as you left it because the theory is that the world of DR is turned *into* the world of UT. The world of UT itself is as it is, this theory just proposes that the UT world originates on the other side of a scratch from the world of DR, which may very well be the case based on Gerson's dialogue about the world being rewritten. Sure, it's not set in stone, there's still a lot of wiggle room for other things to happen, but I'd say it's got some weight to it.

>>3860706
No I wasn't.
I was literally advocating for the idea of making new characters during that argument.
Christ, the literacy rate in here has to be medieval.

>>3860700
They would've been useful in a lot of situations in the show. They just conveniently didn't have them because the writers wanted it to be Korean war style supersonic dog fights in space. That's really the bottom line here, and nothing else matters.

Same goes for basically any "forced" plot element. The writer wanted that thing, so they constructed a world to make it happen. Does it fall apart if you examine it with a microscope? Yeah, everything in fantasy does.

Why do the monsters not just orbitally bombard the humans with their magic rocks? Because that would be lame and would kill the story.

>>3860710
Did you or did you not call creating a character for Kanako "forced"?

>>3860708
I still think "parallel story" goes pretty strongly against that. Something can't be parallel if it comes chronologically before the thing its parallel to.

>>3860712
>They would've been useful in a lot of situations in the show.
Not for the Cylons. Again, they didn't actually want to kill the humans entirely, they wanted them to lead them to earth, and they wanted to study them for their own scientific/theological purposes. Hard to do either of those things if you destroyed them all on day one.
Same reason they don't just pursue the colonial fleet with a hundred basestars every time they jump and only ever send a handful, they want to chase them, not eradicate them.
The reason why I made my point about kinetic bombardment for Oldentale is because if the monsters only want to maintain their current standard of living and aren't some kind of expansionist imperialist faction, then logically they should have no problem with dropping some rocks over different parts of the planet if it means defending where they live, since all they wanna do is survive on the surface.

>>3860715
Yeah, I did, now go back and read the rest of what I said instead of imagining it and replying to what you think I said.

>>3860717
Eh, Homestuck managed to pull that off a few times (Jack Noir being from the universe created by the trolls and causing problems for them *before* he actually got the ring and became a problem from the human kids' perspective, and others I'm too tired to list off right now, you get the idea), and I think it's pretty safe to say at this point that Toby's a bit more inspired by Homestuck than most people are willing to face.

>>3860721
Calling something forced is shitting on it. If you're gonna say "This is forced and bad writing and you might as well do this instead" then you are shitting on it, and no amount of "actually I'm not shittiing on it, but its still forced" is going to make that not shitting on it.

>>3860726
So that's a no on the whole, "reading what I actually posted" thing, then?
Alright, whatever, I need to log off anyway.
Take it easy pal.

>>3860720
But if they did that, it wouldn't be a fun RPG fantasy story, and it likely wouldn't be a story at all. You just have to assume that since they aren't doing it, they can't, and come up with your own justification for why they specifically can't if you really need one.

Its outside of the scope and genre of the story, and would drag it down and ruin it to do otherwise.

>>3860723
I don't know if I'd call anything Homestuck did "pulled off" but I suppose he could be doing that. I just sincerely hope not, since that would ruin the story pretty hard.

I think people are leery about expanding on canon characters because they saw what happened with people making up headcanons for why Sans is so mysterious. Still, I'm fully on board with fleshing out such characters.
>>3860471
>It was pretty creative of George Lucas to initially come up with the idea of Obi Wan's force ghost coming back to life at the end of Return of the Jedi, and have him kill Emperor Palpatine.
Did he actually plan this?
>>3860510
Give him an armet like Undyne but with an axe blade as the front edge. He doesn't have arms so he uses that to attack.

>>3860764
You could even make his signature face-plant into an attack.

New fangame just dropped https://balsamianxxx.itch.io/childhoods-end

>>3860512
That's a heartwarming story.
>>3860516
They're adorable, though they make some cultural references that don't track with the setting.
>>3860771
Weird route kino

>>3860771
It wasn't very long, around 15 minutes, but I appreciated it.
Also, I felt guilt for once.

>>3860854
Didn't make me feel guilty at all. Just made Kris look like a massive faggot.

>>3860854
Kris deserved it. Fucking abusive owner. Give me back Frisk.

>>3860875
If you play the actual game, its just Noelle being all affection towards Kris during their date while he's internally screaming about terrible this all is. She kisses him and he has a panic attack.

>>3860877
>Kris is a faggot
More news at 11

So we doing a thread or not?

>>3860966
>>>/v/723582630

>>3860966
Undertale and Deltarune thread has 5 people and they can't even talk about either game.
Earlier it was Battlestar Galactica, and now they want to talk about Batman....
Dead games and proof that even the fans on 4chan don't want to talk about it anymore.
Still keeps posting shit in /vrpg/ instead of moving threads. I think they want to prove a point to the earlier posts about this being a 5 person thread.

>>3860981
The only reason we were talking about BSG was because the topic of realistic dogfighting in space came up, and it was just me and the other guy.
And that other guy above you isn't talking about Batman, that image is a joke reply.

>>3860981
I feel like you'd be making a better point if Undertale/Deltarune related threads weren't plagued by a shitbird that hates the fan games and actual game discussion, and has been getting the admins to ban more and more posters given their shitty personality keeps a pissing people off.

>>3860343
Martlet and Clover's isn't forced, because from the very beginning they were supposed to have close relationship, to where both of them have a lot of influence over the other.
The writers made it very clear that Clover and Martlet were always supposed to have interconnected relationship regardless of the route.
The issue is the developers absolutely failed at at conveying that in the game, and as many people criticized, that whole steamwork section with Ceroba, where they game pretty much became all about her, is something that players should have also gotten with Martlet.
They never bothered to add the necessary sections in the game where Martlet and Clover could showcase that close bond that they were always meant to have.
It's because of that a lot of interactions outside of select few feel so hollow or forgetful, because the game never goes deeper into them, so we can learn more about character, and how Clover affects them.
In any case Martlet and Clover were also supposed to have important and vital relationship.
As for Kanako and Clover? All I can say that's what happens when you introduce a character that's apparently the key to everything, without even fleshing them, and making them a non entity.

>>3860994
I'm tired and I'm not doing this again, go read what I said in the previous thread if you care so much.
TL;DR, Clover and Martlet's relationship comes off as forced in the final product that is UTY because the two characters ultimately only spend a handful of minutes together at most even when they're at their most amicable with each other, so having them share some deep interpersonal bond is extremely forced because in the vast majority of possible routes Clover has no reason to care about Martlet over literally any other character in the game. It doesn't matter what the devs *intended*, it only matters what ended up actually happening, and as it stands, Clover and Martlet have almost no connection between them.
That's it, if you want my elaboration, go read the other threads, otherwise let this rest.

>>3860301
Thanks for the game recommendation. Undertale yellow has been fun.
>>3860304
Writing has been a bit of a slog...There isn't much at the beginning, but the little I've encountered just feels tedious. Was about to explain all the content I went through, but not sure how the spoiler function works. Yellow searching for the others seems solid, but then Toriel and Flowey's dialogue is just...dialogue. Even when Flowey explains his reason for doing what he's doing. Dark Ruins, Snowdin and now the Wild East.
Was kind of hoping that less would be explained to Yellow, since it's a new person and a prequal, but I digress. I went in hoping less was more, was my mentality.

Only played for a couple of hours. Work and kids are my main focus. Gameplay is solid. Makes me feel like I was playing Undertale again and can't wait to play more. Pacifist run, like I always do. Then the dreaded and usually more fun, in my opinion, genocide run.

Also looking forward to meeting some of the other characters.

>>3861085
>Thanks for the game recommendation. Undertale yellow has been fun.
Huh? Did you reply to the wrong post on accident or something?

>>3861091
Yes I did. >>3860301 should have been the second one. The first should have been the one going over a huge list of fan games.
Was trying to post on some of the threads, play some Undertale, and then get ready for tomorrow.

>>3861085
>Was kind of hoping that less would be explained to Yellow
What do you mean by that?

>>3860771
This wants me to replay the weird route yet again even more

How do you deal with the roaring titans

>>3861122
Forcefeed them a SOUL. Watch them implode. Win.

>>3861122
Simply say no. They legally can't destroy the Earth without our consent.

>>3860647
I just gave it a read and I think you're right. What makes it work is that these characters are still essentially the same people, just in a world where different things have played out differently. Flowey is still Flowey and Papyrus is still Papyrus. I feel this should be a core philosophy when making an AU.

>>3861169
Yeah, glad you agree.
Anyway, shame the comic got cancelled forever, it was shaping up to be pretty good.

>>3860343
>Clover is a non-characters

I think if you squint your eyes there is a lot of things we can find out about Clover.

He is the very antithesis of justice. He turns a blind eye to any acts of injustice carried out against both himself and the previous humans, especially integrity. When explicitly shown the truth he flat out chooses to ignore it, so it's not naivety like Ceroba called out.

He also opts for the easy way out when confronted with the difficult task of having to face off against Asgore. This ties back to his utter lack of determination in any route. Being somehow even less then Flowey's. The only time he shows firmness of purpose is when he beats Zenith Martlet an almost God-like entity and when the goal is right in front of him. Otherwise he'd just give up before his journey could even start.

It's also interesting how the only person he can lie to is Flowey, but is completely transparent when interacting with anybody else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3beIz6E8Sok
semi relevant video to earlier discussion (maybe)

>>3861222
>He is the very antithesis of justice.
I don't think you mean "antithesis", unless you're trying to tell me Clover represents the exact opposite of the ideal of justice. Which, in a genocide route, would probably be accurate, but generally speaking that isn't a very apt description.
Clover's characterization is all over the place, they don't really have much of a defined character, they're full of contradictions that don't really make sense in or out of universe. For example, they go through the entire genocide route without ever feeling compelled to find a justification for killing anyone they get their hands on, only for them to suddenly try and justify their actions when fighting Zenith Martlet, and kill her regardless of the fact that they don't find anything. Also the fact that they'll pull out all the stops to defeat Ceroba in pacifist, unlocking their ki blasts and flash step just to beat her, but suddenly can't do any of that when fighting Asgore, even though we see them visibly upset and itching to fight him after he pulls out the five human souls.
Clover's characterization is so vague and scattered that there really isn't anything to go off of. It's the opposite problem Kanako has, with her having no details whatsoever, but with the same results, that being that there just isn't any real foundation to go off of when writing for them.

>>3861530
Yeah, I know what I said. Clover reflects none of the core tenets of justice (distributive, retributive, procedural and restorative) and often willingly goes against these fundamentals. He can’t beat Asgore because he lacks the conviction; he never truly believed in his mission not even when the ugly truth was directly in front of him. He does the same thing when he finds the report on what happened to Integrity, he simply closes the book

Genocide Clover is a whole ass different character compared to Clover. He fits much closely to the aspect of justice that is retributive, distributive and restorative. When he faces the truth of what happened to Integrity he acts rather then turn a blind eye.

>>3861661
Yeah, but that doesn't mean they're the "antithesis" of justice, since that would mean they go out of their way to cause as much injustice as possible, which isn't an accurate description of them either, outside of genocide anyway.
Also, not doing anything or having much of a reaction to what happened to the integrity soul isn't really about justice, since the integrity soul also killed a ton of people by themself, so not getting up in arms about them being killed in the pacifist route isn't necessarily them "not getting justice" for the integrity soul, it could alternatively be them considering justice to have already been given to them, in the form of them being killed for their actions.
Clover's character is definitely still very all over the place, but I wouldn't call their actions in pacifist *antithetical* to the ideal of justice, just not 100% in service of it.

>>3861672
Pacifist Clover shows impunity, unequal distribution, bias and exclusion of justice through his actions. He is not "all over the place" he behaves in a way that is consistent to what his character is.

He clearly doesn't believe that Integrity's death is some kind of demented form of justice as he imminently closes the book detailing the events. Like I've said his go to response when facing something that challenges his world view is to look away.

>>3861687
>demented form of justice
I don't feel like killing someone who went on a murderous rampage throughout civilian populated areas is "demented", but alright.
Also, I didn't say they were happy about it. They could simultaneously consider integrity to have been brought to justice while also being unhappy that things turned out as they did, those aren't mutually exclusive.
>Pacifist Clover shows impunity, unequal distribution, bias and exclusion of justice through his actions.
How exactly? Pacifist Clover isn't some kind of vigilante who kills anyone they see as being out of line, they don't enact any kind of punishment on basically anyone at any point, that's what makes it pacifist. Killing Ceroba might be considered "bias", but that's also not something you can do while remaining on the true pacifist route, so I don't see why something like that would be a factor in judging Clover's character in the pacifist route.

>>3861691
>impunity
Clover allows Axis to walk away from killing Integrity scot-free.

>unequal distribution of justice
Him and the five other humans are supposed to be trapped for all of eternity for the sake of giving hope to monsterkind

>bias
He give every monster an unreasonable amount of goodwill and assumes the best intentions to his own determent

>exclusion of justice
Asgore declares war against humanity and introduces a kill on sight policy but whenever a human retaliates it seen as a "murderous rampage"

>>3861714
>Clover allows Axis to walk away from killing Integrity scot-free.
Yes, along with literally everyone else in the pacifist route. And again, based on what they have the chance to learn about what happened to the integrity soul, they could be letting them walk away because they believe that integrity ultimately got served justice in the end, even if they don't like it. Justice doesn't always feel satisfying, that's how it is sometimes.
>Him and the five other humans are supposed to be trapped for all of eternity for the sake of giving hope to monsterkind
Or, a handful of years until the next one comes along. There's nothing in UTY or UT about the souls being "trapped forever", that's something you're making up for an argument you're losing.
>He give every monster an unreasonable amount of goodwill and assumes the best intentions to his own determent
They judge monsters based on their actions and circumstance, and in the context of the pacifist route, apparently come to the conclusion that the monsters only do what they do out of desperation and panic from their situation, which is ultimately what drives Clover to give up their soul for the sake of freeing them from their situation.
>Asgore declares war against humanity and introduces a kill on sight policy but whenever a human retaliates it seen as a "murderous rampage"
Because him and his entire race were forcefully trapped underground for potentially hundreds of years, after they were already culled to minuscule population numbers, and after his child was killed by a human.
Also, we know for a fact from the original UT that Asgore doesn't actually want to wage war on humanity again, and most of the underground's population regards him as a big pushover, so I highly doubt most monsters (outside of Bratty and Catty, and that conga line of random monsters towards the end of the game) in the underground actually think he's gonna go through with what he said.
You don't have a leg to stand on, we're done here.

>>3861377
It sounds like this guy is making some good points, but he makes them in such an obnoxious way that I want to disagree with him anyways.

New Help_Tale video dropped
https://youtu.be/CzZAo-lUsFk

>>3861691
>>3861714
>they don't enact any kind of punishment on basically anyone at any point
The closest thing to pacifist clover enacting punishment is clover basically being able to shoot martlet down until she runs away as you can still get the uty true pacifist ending after doing that while killing the steamworks robots makes clover unpure for some reason

>>3861715
You've completely missed the point. I wasn't judging Clover on the bases of morality. I was simply pointing out that his actions are the antithesis of the four cornerstones of justice that we recognize in real life. You are confusing saintlike behavior vs the quality of justice. This is all to say that Clover is not a blank slate. He has a set of core traits and can be written in a way that's faithful to what we see in UTY.

>>3858840

not the original writeanon but I really liked your request

>be me, still trapped in attic dimension dodging 8ft trench-coat-wearing man-thing
>still in "couple" mode with Kanako
>Mondays amirite
>robot waiter side-eyeing me while sliding in our food
>pretty sure he flipped me off earlier
>we force feed each other spaghetti
>since that’s what pretend couples do
>cryptid bounces
>half-stand when out of nowhere
>”So, Clover what’s it like being a human?”
>idk probably same as being a monster but with a different shape
>awkward pause
>brain.exe decides now is the time to embarrass myself
>”You look like you have lots of friends…why pair up with me for the project?
>”Oh, it looked like nobody else wanted to.“
>instantsadness.exe
>“Wait, I didn’t mean it like that!”
>voice cracks a little
>“I’m not from here either. We moved when dad lost his job. Just…sucks being alone somewhere new. You shouldn’t have to go through that.”
>feel warm and weird somewhat good
>look down
>see pale hand stretching from my shoulder to ribs

so peak...

Well, that was actually a pretty good thread towards the end, shame we only got the one in this time around.

>>3862222
I'm having a little trouble telling what's going on this one. Its hard to tell who's doing what.

>>3862262
uty chapter 2 where your favorite ship is canon Christmas 2025 trvst the plan

>>3862265
What?

>>3862269
i have the inside scoop my dad works at the steamworks

>>3862271
I didn't know they let you have internet access in Alphys basement.

>>3862272
She keeps losing her cell phones and buying new ones with her grant money endogeny has the second one

>>3862274
Then how do I keep getting cryptic phone calls at 3 am from memory head?

>>3862286
that's phone #3, she still pays all of the phone bills because she doesn't want to admit she lost all of them

>>3862291
How many has she lost down there?

>>3861785
I've always had a soft spot for stuff like this

>>3862256
if you want higher quality, check tumblr

>>3862308
>spoiler
I've done that once to submit a question for a ralsus qna blog

>>3862309
The only thing I know about tumblr is there's a really annoying faggot on /v/ has one and You Know Who's existence was archived there.

>>3862262
If you're feeling confident you can make another one.
If you feel there'll be a lot of activity on it.

Does Sig take commissions?

>>3862418
as far as I know he is only active in 4chan and AO3

in other news, Mart model nears completion

>>3862475
That's the best 3d model i've personally seen

>>3862256
the scarf over the poncho looks cool

>>3862475
Ugliest 3D model martlet ever, literal bimbo body, the hair looks like its made out of clay rather than hair, and the colours are dull as fuck, in fact, its as dull as the colours of the pokemons in a modern pokemon game.
If you told me this was a leak for a "if undertale yellow was realistic" series then i'd understand its shittiness, but i cannot fathom how could this dogshit of a 3d model be a serious 3d martlet

>>3862475
Prettiest 3D model Martlet ever, literal goddess body, the hair looks like its made of the finest silk rather than hair, and the colors are vibrant as fuck, in fact, its as vibrant as the colors of the flowers in spring.
If you told me this was a leak for "Undertale Yellow: The Movie" by studio Ghibli then I'd understand its quality, but I cannot fathom how could this masterpiece of a 3d work of art could be a casual 3d Martlet.

>>3862475
An ordinary 3D model of Martlet, a literal body, the hair looks like its made of average fibers rather than brittle strand, and the colors are plain as fuck, in fact, its as plain as the colors of everyday life.
If you told me this was a leak for a "Undertale Yellow" fangame by Master Sword then I'd understand its existence, but i can fathom how this normal 3d model could be a 3d Martlet.

>>3862480
Certainly better than that one KM abomination-in-progress I saw.
>>3862815
Faggot
>>3862859
Faggot
>>3862870
Based, there's also a Zartlet model

>>3862475
I am indifferent to this 3d model martlet as one could imagine. I have no strong feelings towards her body one way or the other, the hair appears to be polygonal geometry rather than hair, an the colors appear to be blue and yellow in nature.
If you told me this was a 3d model of martlet from the indie fanwork "Undertale Yellow" then I would understand it's inspiration, and I would be able to fathom what the model would look like when finished.

>>3862475
looks aight

Anyone have a decent Undertale font sprite? Preferably that's free to use.

>>3862996
most people just use the "determination sans/mono" recreations, but I think there is a list somewhere where toby sourced the original fonts from

>>3862996
You mean for the generic dialogue text?
I think that's just 8-bit operator.

>>3862997
>>3863003
That's not a sprite. I need an actual image of all the characters. I tried to just make one in paint, but it keeps coming out wrong.

>>3863005
Just download the font, type out whatever characters you need, and use those for whatever it is you're doing.

>>3863007
I already said I tried that. It keeps coming out wrong.

>>3863007
Look at the zero, the lower case m, and the # as examples. Its not supposed to look like that and I can't figure out how to fix it in order to get the proper characters to convert into an image.

>>3863010
OK, I figured out a solution. I found a tool on itch that converts fonts to "bitmaps" (really transparent pngs for some reason), then fed that image into paint.net and added a background, then saved it as an actual bitmap.

For posterity's sake, here's a png version of that image in case anyone else wants it.

DRY update: finally finished all major events and the chapter is theoretically playable from start to finish
still need to do the moveset of the book miniboss, but his fight can be completed (he only has 2 attacks right now), also still need to rewrite a few events and make some small events here and there to tie in the new character that accompanies you through the chapter
then I can just playtest and rewrite with my friend until the 31st

>>3863056
Is this for chapter 2 or only for chapter 1?
Also, did you cut out the weird route?

>>3863056
Wonderful news

>>3863073
only chapter 1, some of the pre dark world cutscenes in chapter 2 were modified to add some more gizmo and sadie interactions but it is relatively untouched for now
after I'm done with this I'll go back and finish chapter 2 (though might take a while, I had to make a deal with my boss to let me pretty much take the entire month off so I could work on DRY to get the update out before the month ends)

>>3863163
auto messed with some font settings to make this more readable, idk why godot's fonts work in such a weird way

How do you devanons handle text boxes in your game?

>>3863163
>(though might take a while, I had to make a deal with my boss to let me pretty much take the entire month off so I could work on DRY to get the update out before the month ends)
Small price to pay and all that.
For real though, DRY1anon, I kneel.

>>3863163
>I had to make a deal with my boss to let me pretty much take the entire month off so I could work on DRY to get the update out before the month ends
chillest boss of the century

I decided to follow anon's advice and install gamemaker to start learning how to make games. Within 10 minutes after installing it, my laptop GSOD'd twice in a row and refuses to turn back on. I'll take this as a sign.

>>3863237
Its a sign your laptop is broken. Try cleaning it.

>>3863163
>(though might take a while, I had to make a deal with my boss to let me pretty much take the entire month off so I could work on DRY to get the update out before the month ends)
Holy shit dude. I kneel.
Take your time with the rest of the game. Thanks for taking the hit to your paycheck for our sake lmao
(If all four weeks off were paid I want your job)

>>3863207
Disclaimer: I have no idea if this method is optimal, and it has yet to be battle tested.
Essentially, a textbox keeps track of whether or not it should be drawn, how many characters it has drawn, and a handle referencing the message it needs to draw (all messages are stored in their corresponding rooms, and the room's array of messages gets passed into the update function). Every frame, the textbox draws one more character, skips to the end if X is pressed, moves to the next message if all characters were drawn and Z is pressed, or automates both if C is held.
I uploaded this demo video last week. You can also read the source code here:
https://github.com/burgertrucking/unrelated/blob/aa8d081a91eba714962b3ee9ee17075ac3989ae8/src/textbox.c
I can explain in further detail if anything is unclear or if you need specifics on the implementation.

>>3863237
Man that really sucks, I hope you can get your laptop running again, don't give up your game dev journey before starting

>>3863237
What's the stop code, out of curiosity?

>>3863245
Not sure if I remember correctly, think the first one was "ntoskrnl.exe" and the second was "pfn_list_corrupt". I'm going to see if removing the battery and flushing the power will help it boot up again. If I mess that up then I'd just have to take it to get repaired anyway.

>>3863250
Some quick google fu tells me that means the page frame number was corrupted by ntoskrnl.exe, which is the kernel of the operating system. Could be due to bad drivers, failing RAM, or a failing hard drive.

>>3863250
Looking those up, it seems a combination of the two is typically associated with RAM or hard drive failure. If you haven't done this already, I'd try to boot into recovery mode, open a command prompt, and run wmic and mdsched to get an overview of disk and RAM health, respectively

>>3863265
>>3863266
Damnit, so I'm probably just fucked. All that happens when I turn it on is that it eventually gets hot when left to run. No booting into recovery mode, no prompts for turning it on and off again, and it doesn't display when hooked up to another monitor. Just the blank, inactive black screen and the keyboard lighting up like its supposed to. I'll see if disconnecting the battery will work

>>3863307
since it looks like a hardware issue, you should take it to a repair shop unless you have the parts and know how to test/replace it yourself

>>3863307
If it's not even showing the manufacturer logo, then it might be failing to POST. If that's the case, there's a hardware failure going on. Could be the RAM as previously theorised, but it could very much be something else.
It's worth removing the battery and draining the power, but if that doesn't work, it's probably most within your means to take it to a repair shop, yeah

>>3863307
My guess is bad RAM.

>>3860108 (OP)
>Starlo is actually very responsible
>Starlo is is only seen as immature because he's not working a real job

How do I tell Tumblr that Starlo is seen as immature and is actually very irresponsible for reasons beyond cowboy LARPing

>>3863207
My actual textboxes don't have much code of their own - just enough to draw the box itself. I call them, as well as the speech bubbles for battles, "dialogue managers", because they're just wrappers around the actual text handling code. The real work is done by "typewriters", which are objects that type text out over time, and process some dialogue tags to pause / change speed / etc. Typewriters themselves call a "draw_formatted_text" function each frame, which draws static text, and supports more tags of its own for formatting (like "[c,r]red text[c,n]", "[e,s]shaky text[e,n]", etc). The nice thing about separating things out like this is that if I need to, say, add a special kind of dialogue box for some scene, or draw text in menus, I don't have to duplicate any code, because none of it is coupled to specific use cases.

>>3863332
>>3863334
>>3863340
So I couldn't get the battery out since the screws were way too tight and I don't have proper pliers. Did clean it out though. What I think happened is that my laptop (MSI Crosshair 17, I believe) ran out of power anyway, and when I plugged in it did start up again. I tried running mdsched to see if anything was wrong, but while that was running it somehow bricked again on the RAM health check and doesnt boot up anymore. There were a bunch of dead green pixels dancing around when it happened, so I think it might be my GPU that's been fucky. I'll see if there's any place that can repair it sometime soon.

>>3863386
Also, I'm still not sure if it just decided to die *now* or if it has something to do with Gamemaker. But considering how long I've been using my PC, it might just be age unexpectedly catching up.

>>3863388
>>3863386
It probably isn't anything to do with gamemaker. Those are obviously hardware issues, and I don't know how gamemaker would cause those.

>dancing green pixels
Might still be ram. A lot of laptops use a portion of the system ram for vram, so if the system ram dies, it can affect the GPU.

>>3863394
Think it might just be ready to be sent to a farm upstate, desu. I've been using it for 3-4 years now. I'll see if I can get a professional's opinion within the week, and I'll be sure to call MSI support too.

>>3863373
Is that pic an actual tumblr post or

>>3863401
>I've been using it for 3-4 years now
That's not really that long by computer standards. Pic related is 21 years old and it runs just fine. I've got a few similarly aged laptops that work fine as well.

>>3863163
>I had to make a deal with my boss to let me pretty much take the entire month off so I could work on DRY to get the update out before the month ends
Holy based. Don't starve yourself for our sake, anon.

>>3863410
What a depressing image.
Schizophrenics really live like this and see Joe problem.

>>3863453
>What a depressing image.
You will never know the utter level of cozy I operate at on a moment to moment basis, and I pity you for that.
>and see Joe problem
Is he related to Joe Mama?

Hey, to the guy who wanted that drawing of Shu being punched by Val like that one DBZ scene, do you have a decent ref of Shu facing forward?
I'm starting work on the thing right now, but I really don't wanna have to venture over to the subreddit just to find a reference for Shu of all things.

>>3863461
Will this suffice?

>>3863466
It'll do for now, but it'd really help if I could get an image of him where he's roughly facing more towards the viewer head-on, since that's the general sort of angle Mr.Satan's head was in when he got punched.

>>3863466
Wait a fucking minute, does he only have two toes, like a fucking Sangheli?
Look at his paws, he clearly only has two toes, and he isn't wearing those weird toe sock things either, since his paws there are the same color as his hands, and he has those bandages over them.
What the hell, how have I not noticed that before?

>>3863468
the only front facing art I've seen of him is sprites.
>>3863469
somehow I never noticed this either.

>>3863471
Well, guess I'll have to make do with these then, thanks.
I'll try and see what I can do about having this finished before/around the next thread this weekend, but we'll what happens.

>>3863474
>but we'll what happens.
*see, we'll see what happens, god damnit.

>>3863461
>>3863468
>>3863474
Here is a front facing drawing made by Shu's creator

>>3863525
Oh cool, that'll help, thanks.
Also, okay, I honestly thought it might've just been a weird angle before in that other image, but this one confirms it clear as day, Shu only has two toes on his paws.
I mean, that's not a particularly major detail or anything, it's just slightly weird for a character who's supposed to be a fox.

>>3863458
If you post ITT, you look like this (and that's a good thing)

>>3863469
I assumed it was a perspective thing, that there was a third toe behind what we can see, but >>3863525 clearly only has two toes yeah. Maybe the creator wants it to look like those ninja socks but didn't think any of it through

>>3863466
>Strongest monster after Asgore
>60 AT
>30 DF
Mr. Sunshine victim

>>3863733
That's the real reason he acts tough. He thinks if he acts tough enough, it'll never happen again.

>>3863757
>it'll never happen again.
what will never happen again?

>>3863759
Lets just say Mr Sunshine is a warrior.

>>3863762
Where does this joke come from, I've seen this bit about Mr.Sunshine in multiple different threads by now, who keeps doing this?

>>3863762
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>3863765
In a thread a while back somebody said Mr Sunshine looked silly and wasn't scary at all, to which another anon replied "you won't say that when you see its 6ft barbed cock" or something like that. Then it got combined with shitposting about Riley looking like a girl, and became Mr Sunshine being a gay rapist. From there, making a booty warrior copypasta of him wasn't that much of a stretch.

>>3863769
Whats the copypasta?

>>3863778
I don't have it saved, but its just "I came looking for booty", but Chris Hansen is replaced with Riley, and little boys are replaced with monster girls.

>>3863757
>>3863762
So you are telling me that Shu is Undertale's version of Joe William from Baki?

>>3863795
No, that would be Riley.

A DRY idea from reddit

>>3863806
I was kinda expecting kanako to commit vore on cole or smthn like that, since it looked like one of those uty animations

>>3863806
cute

>>3863805
It could be both, maybe Shu and Riley should team up to take down the underground's biggest rapist

>>3863806
I'll give them credit, this time.

>>3863811
>The underground's biggest jobbers team up against the underground's strongest rapist
there's only one way that can end

>>3863822
you fool, jobbers may have no hope against the true threat but such a foe is feeble against the power of shenanigans and fraudulence

>>3863822
if they can gather enough of Mr. Sunshine's victims they might have a chance

>>3863826
>The mass rape of 20XX incident

>>3863824
its been so long since I've seen Bleach, I don't remember this guy at all.

>>3863828
well, at least they tried, better luck next time

>>3863829
gave another attempt at watching through, at least when he's introduced hes a full on scooby doo gang shenanigans character, and one of the few examples of that being funny

>>3863838
What was his name?

>>3863850
Pesche, one of the few examples of a silly character like that, that I actually found funny

>>3863852
He does kinda look and act like a UT character, as does his friend with the big head.

>>3863806
peak alert

>>3863866
thats fair, I feel like those shows run the comic relief characters into the ground so I never really considered it

>>3863901
I actually liked most of Bleach's comic relief characters. Like that TV ghost hunter guy who I can't spell the name of, or those mod souls from the filler arc.

Back to the point, UT as a setting is basically just "oops, all gag characters". And since its characters are all literal monsters, something like a silly joke hollow would fit right in.

>>3863525
You know, for as much shit as I and many others around here give Shu, I actually don't have much bad to say about his design by itself. If he just wasn't an extremely out of place OC made for UTY fan comics, and also had something of a more toned-down rewrite, I think he might actually be a decent character.
Or at least a cute enough character to see lewded.

>>3863910
>Or at least a cute enough character to see lewded.
the warrior in blue claims another victim

>>3863913
I can see how this nigga can derail threads now

>>3863913
You misunderstand, there is no context I can imagine Shu in where he isn't being utterly mindbroken and pushed past all his limits.
Shu hasn't claimed a victim, Shu's going to *be* the victim once I'm done.

>>3863914
The only reason he derails threads is that everything involving him is hilarious.

>>3863918
You won't do anything Roba hasn't already done. Face it, you're just the third violent dommy-mommy to be added to his harem.

>>3863920
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq_VqQ8e35M

>>3863918
>>3863921
Mr. Sunshine...

>>3863466
What kind of Mary Sue type bullshit is this?

>>3864018
You really don't know?

>>3864018
He is the strongest monster, show some respect

Mostly just testing the model for the guy. These aren't proper renders, just viewport. And yes, everything is modeled underneath.

>>3864040
>fully modeled Martlet

>>3864027
>>3864037
This is just cringe, and not even the mild kind of cringe.
Like real cringe. I don't mind adding powerful oc's and stuff, but this is just dumb.

>>3863466
heil shu

>>3864048
Undyne...

>>3864040
>And yes, everything is modeled underneath.
Finally, the UTY cinematic mod will be a reality.

>>3864053
kill yourself

>>3864053
I feel like this should be the other way around, undyne would be the one saying those words

>>3864070
>he thinks Shu would ever do anything outside of the safety of his keyboard

>>3864070
JOBdyne wishes she could be this strong in her base form

great the shu redditor is back

>>3864080
It is at least two people

>>3864040
>>3864041
>>3864057
I'd showcase it, but catbox is currently dead

I've seen some people ask about Kristal in these threads. My first impressions are that it's pretty well made, easy to use, and surprisingly flexible.

A highlight is the hooks system, which allows you to replace just about any function in the codebase and easily extend classes. Being open source helps a lot with this, especially considering the wiki's documentation is unfortunately not fully comprehensive; that said, the codebase is easily understood enough to be largely self-documenting. For example, slapping together picrel had me hop around between engine code and the devs' testing mod (which they don't intend as a learning resource).

It's worth noting it's more tailored towards coders than designers: I'd compare it to PyGame rather than Unity or Game Maker. With that said, my limited time with it has been enjoyable thus far, and it seems well suited to DR-style games.

>>3864040
>And yes, everything is modeled underneath.
oh, that's why it looks like that

It feels good to make progress, however small it may be.

>>3864276
is this oldentale?

>>3864102
Make her do the Tenna dance

>>3864278
No, but it is progress towards it.

>>3864040
The royal guards barracks bunny

>>3864283
>Stealing my TV Time™ copyrighted happy dance? Now that's fowl play!

UT new hope is adding a photo mode for some reason https://gamejolt.com/p/dev-log-25-october-2025-itvkczcn

also one of the cyan projects showed signs of activity https://gamejolt.com/p/hello-everyone-just-hoppin-on-here-to-inform-you-guys-that-develo-jchiy4v8

>>3864405
Pretty please?

>>3864490
>New Hope
Love it when games incorporate photo modes. I also think the attack systems are very neat, but there has to be a reason to choose to fight since most players will pick the boring act puzzles regardless. It's a very pretty game.
>cyan
I'm glad that's not dead.

>>3864490
>v-sign in front of a grave
man frisk is cold

>>3864490
New Hope's attack QTEs look very pretty and charming, but they seem slow enough to kill the pace. It's like the finishers in Doom 2016, which I disliked enough to drop the game.

>>3864538
>It's like the finishers in Doom 2016, which I disliked enough to drop the game.
Okay, this is off-topic, but like, really?
I myself wasn't particularly a fan of the finishers in 2016, but I thought they were fast enough to not be too annoying, and certainly not game-ruining.
Don't get me wrong, I could understand something like that being the straw that broke the camel's back, but by itself? That just feels like a bit of a weak reason to give up on what's otherwise a really good game.

thread today?

>>3864565
Sure, I'd be down for a thread

>>3864565
It's a little early in the day, maybe give it a few more hours before making one.

added hard mode to DRY, pic related is the only change from regular gameplay
also trying to figure how to program a move where the battle box gets cut in half, like that one roaring knight move, a bit stumped on how to get around getting that to work
besides that the rework is maybe 90% done, still gotta playtest more but content wise its nearly complete

>>3864565
It's too early for one now.

>>3864565
but don't wait too long it's 10pm for us Eurofags

>>3864565
Is it safe to reference Yellow directly in a thread these days?
I saw a Deltarune thread today that wasn't trying to hide it, so maybe the jannies have finally cooled down.

>>3864593
It varies. Sometimes threads that reference UTY directly survive, sometimes they die in under an hour. Sometimes going stealthy helps a thread survive, sometimes it doesn't.
Just do whatever you think will work best, and if it doesn't pan out, let someone else try something different.

>>3864577
>pic
Now there's a challenge.

>>3864577
okay I think I figured how to do it, had to use sprite masks instead of control nodes because the clip mask of control nodes can't handle rotation

>>3864594
I've kept track of every thread since the game's release. The last proper Yellow thread (as in, Undertale Yellow was in the OP post) was 2 months ago.
And last time I made one of those myself I got a 3-day ban for being a "general". Believe me when I say that jannies are petty fucks. I don't see myself making direct threads at this point.
It'll be better for new threads to have only stealth references for the time being.

>>3864609
that particular jannie deleted even stealth threads but I think he finally gave up atp it's just making it hard for other anons to find the thread

>>>/v/724183060
new thread

Earthbound:
>I obliterated a bunch of random creatures on the side of the street with magic PSI bullshit that explodes your brain 50 times per second
>"Aww, Ness is so heroic!"
Deltatraveler:
>A bunch of rabid creatures surrounding the area were about to maul us to death so i had to defend myself and my friends with a fucking pencil
>"NOOOOOO HOW DARE YOU EXTERMINATE THE ASSHOLE MONSTERS TRYING TO KILL YOU INSTEAD OF OFFERING THEM A BJ FOR MERCY!?!?!?!?!??"

>>3864552
Yes, really. Note that I haven't played it since a year after launch, but I recall finding finishers to be just slow and prominent enough for it to ruin my enjoyment of the game. This was exacerbated by the cinematics being hardcoded to a low FOV, which gave me motion sickness.
I generally liked the rest of the game, but not enough to outweigh a central mechanic I found unfun. It may be possible to finish the game without using finishers, but I recall this being unbalanced from my attempts to do so.
I did get Eternal when it was on sale since I heard finishers are less intrusive there and it has other mechanics that interest me, like movement tech. I have yet to play it.

>>3864646
>Have two monsters and a monster lover in your party
>The party is much more sympathetic to monsters
Makes sense to me.

I do agree DT is shit though.

>>3864664
deltatraveler could kinda be redeemed if it went into the concept of "ok yeah we're monsters but THESE monsters are actually horrible. we have very conflicted feelings on this"

>>3864646
A key part of Earthbound is that Ness doesn't kill anything he fights though. Defeating dogs makes them tame, animated objects stop moving, and weird people come back to their senses. This doesn't change that Deltatraveler is retarded, but Ness and his friends are decidedly NOT being so violent that they kill, they're merely expelling Giygas' influence.

>>3864664
The concept of it being another world where the monsters are not the same as deltarune's should be understandable, right? Most humans would understand that things like dragon ball's humans are generally stronger than the humans they know of, so it should be understood by the deltarune cast that these rabid monsters are not the same as the monsterkind they know

>>3864647
I recall having a similar conversation about the new DOOM games in the UTY threads at one point, so this may be retreading old ground, but if you didn't like DOOM 2016 because of just the finishers, I'm really not sure you're gonna like Eternal too much. Eternal introduced a lot of new movement and combat options into the gameplay loop, but unlike the finishers in 2016, they *aren't* optional, and you have to use them to progress in the game. No forward progress unless you engage with the clunky as hell wall climbing mechanic, and you'll constantly be running out of ammo and supplies if you aren't always using the three weird new finisher moves, the chainsaw and those weird fire/ice blasts.
Really, if the finishers in 2016 were an issue for you, Eternal really isn't gonna be much of an improvement on that front.

>>3864691
I guess earthbound says that, but honestly, its hard to believe that bashing the enemies with a bat or hitting them with ass-blasting magic bullshit that would kill anybody like electricity-based PSI (could stop your heart) or fire-based PSI (burns you to death) are less deadly than slashing them with a fucking pencil, itd be like saying that mario never intends to kill anybody even through he crushes goomba's heads flat and is ok with throwing bowser to the lava even before knowing about the whole dry bowser shit, and even if we accepted that characters like link or mario or whatever arent killing shit like kris deltarune could, theres the whole "do they deserve dying?" thing which isnt hard to understand if you arent retarded or a cuck; theyre trying to kill you and they would kill anybody trying to come through, thus, it's fair to kill them as you're stopping them from causing more damage, it's that simple.
not only that, the monsters of these games are inherently an active danger to everybody, in undertale theres the fact that the monsters have stated they want to go to the surface and exterminate humanity, in earthbound, these creatures are working for giygas and will doom the entire world already, in underfell, the monsters are actively making the underground a shithole, and in tloz, the guards we will fight are working for ganon and will not hesitate to kill link, so killing them actually protects the world because it ensures the safety of the world's hero, after all, if link died, his world is fucked.
Trying to pretend like you're in the wrong for killing those retards is the stupidest moralfag moment and its funny how rynogg wants you to believe that sparing them is better than FIGHTing them

>>3864577
I always thought that UT and DR were too forgiving with healing. I'm always overflowing with healing items that I don't end up using, because even if I take damage it usually isn't enough to be fatal until the next save point. When you get the silver scarf in UTY you're basically unkillable. Having an element of attrition in the game would mean needing some more healing items, though usually not more than tend to be available (unless there are a couple of hard bosses).

>>3864702
>itd be like saying that mario never intends to kill anybody even through he crushes goomba's heads flat and is ok with throwing bowser to the lava
That's mostly a difference in tone and intent. Earthbound was always meant to be a cartoony game, the fact Ness can survive Carpainter's lightning, while still framing it as something so powerful that he's defeated instantly without the Franklin Badge, is just the video gamey double standards Earthbound works with. Deltatraveler ignoring this to insert Undertale/Deltarune's logic without even considering the context of Earthbound is where it fails. I'll always point to the crossover mod for Sonic Robo Blast 2 for how a Deltarune crossover SHOULD work, with the characters engaging with the world they's inhabiting and its rules, not enforcing their own universe's rules (which aren't even Deltarune's rules, they're Undertale's rules technically).

>>3864707
y'know what would be interesting?
>with the characters engaging with the world they's inhabiting and its rules, not enforcing their own universe's rules
a semi-inversion of this,
>fun gang adheres to the new universe's rule's until they can use lightclear.
>once they can, UT/DR's logic gets imposed on the universe.
>fucks with the world HARD
>some enemies get pissed at you sparing them (and the fact that they dont want to kill you )
>others are scared by their new affinity for violence, or lack thereof
>each world is ultimately turned on its head because UT/DR's arbitrary rules have been forced in a world where it does NOT work well
>"final" chapter is actually the halfway point
>the gang realizes that they did fuck up pretty bad, so they go back through to fix their mistakes and undo lightclear
>but the worlds have already been tainted by the changes.
>earthbound for example, some gigyas controlled enemies have hit LV20 and are practically unstoppable. most humans dont have the LV to push themselves to grind out levels to contest them.
>have to both undo lightclear and deal with its aftermath.

>>3864693
You'd still be more likely to view them the same way you view yourself that you would say a giant lizard. Even if the Zelda monsters aren't the same kind of monsters as Susie and Noelle, they still really look like them, so they're naturally going to project human (or in this case monster) traits on them.

>>3864674
I feel it could make for some interesting character stuff if Susie and Noelle tried to reason with the Zelda or Earthbound monsters the same way they would with darkners and either get nothing but incoherent growls or "but I don't want to make friends, I want to murder people" as a response. You could even double down on it by having the other world monsters recognize them as monsters and not be aggressive at first, but still be actively aggressive towards Kris just on the principle of him being a human, and them liking to eat humans. With them only turning on Noelle and Susie once they realize those two aren't inherently evil like them.

>>3864702
I think its reasonable for the characters to not want to kill anyone when not killing anyone is their whole shtick. I just think DT framing that as actually being evil is stupid.

>>3864743
In Zelda's case it's more nuanced since there's a good mix of wildlife, hidden villages, and downright evil aligned creatures. Realistically, if Deltatraveler was really following Deltarune's rules, the ACTs you do for truly iredeemable enemies should be pacify related, but the devs are retarded and decided their circumstances shouldn't have Ralsei despite him being the very thing mechanically that allows you to keep the truly evil characters while not forcing you to fight.

>>3864755
Noelle can pacify. She's better at than Ralsei is, since she can pacify whole groups at once.

>>3864757
Yeah well fuck Noelle I want the fun gang

>>3864747
If the characters dont want to kill anyone because reasons, fine, its whatever, but most reasonable pacifists understand that sometimes talking isnt an option, that the enemy cant be reasoned with, and thus, must be put down because that tends to be the best option compared to the alternative. Ignoring fictional examples like frieza or ganon from zelda, Nobody would argue that hitler deserves mercy or that the world would be a better place if he had been allowed to live for the rest of his life.
Honestly, deltatraveler lacks a lot of nuance and itd be interesting if they actually cared to show situations where mercy isnt the best option available, if only rynogg kept fell!sans' og mercy ending instead of forcing him to shit his pants and go "waa i didnt actually kill suzy and I was actually redeemable all along!!!" after receiving all the praise for being the one fan project with a unredeemable foe...

>>3864759
>Nobody would argue that hitler deserves mercy or that the world would be a better place if he had been allowed to live for the rest of his life.
I could see someone making an argument for imprisoning him for the rest of his life rather than killing him. There are people who vehemently oppose the death penalty even for irredeemable serial killers.

I could see it being like a Batman or Trigun situation where, even if they realize that the world probably would be better off with all these people dead, they still aren't willing to kill all of them. And at that point they have to find other ways to solve the problem. Maybe a Legate Lanius "doing the big bad evil thing right now is a bad move strategically" argument, where they convince the bad guy to stop his attack, even if they don't convince him to change his ways. Or maybe they have to non-lethally disable their opponent. Or maybe someone else (like the actual main character of that universe) has to step in and deal with the villain.

>>3864768
meant for >>3864762

>>3864762
>Nobody would argue that hitler deserves mercy
If he'd won, we'd be exploring the stars now, but you've been psyopped into thinking he was Literal Hitler

>>3864770
>Psyopped into thinking Hitler was Hitler

>>3864759
>Yeah well fuck Noelle
if you insist

>>3864768
>I could see someone making an argument for imprisoning him for the rest of his life rather than killing him. There are people who vehemently oppose the death penalty even for irredeemable serial killers.
Ah, yes, sure, give the unredeemable serial killer a free roof, bed, food, and prison friends gotten from the taxpayers' money.
Being serious, it's generally better to just put the worst of the worst down, not only is it a waste of resources to maintain said irredeemable assholes, theyre still perfectly capable of causing more damage to the world, they can try to escape, they can make the lives of the criminals who are actually trying to get better hell, and theres no guarantee that the irredeemable asshole gets better either, overall, people have to accept that, sometimes, theres no peaceful solutions, no matter how much undertale or other utdr fangames like deltatraveler or even idealized superheroes comics want you to think otherwise, you cant change someone who doesnt want to be changed.

>>3864770
>we'd be exploring the stars now
Hilarious thing to say about an ideology that thought the earth was a hollow sphere that we exist inside of, and also that nuclear physics was inherently jewish and therefore shouldn't be seriously explored as a scientific field.

>>3864788
>no matter how much undertale or other utdr fangames like deltatraveler or even idealized superheroes comics want you to think otherwise
NTA, but the original UT actually accounts for this with some of Asriel's last bits of dialogue in true pacifist.

>>3864771
Hitler the Idea v. Hitler the Man

>>3864863
perchance?

>>3864788
I agree, I was just pointing that somebody would make that argument.

>>3864577
alright all content has been programmed and my preliminary tests are complete
just gotta wait my playtesters finish playing and it should be done

>>3865064
If you can't get the playtesting finished by Halloween, just drop the unfinished version and let us play it anyways. I'm more than fine with a somewhat broken release if I get to see it on time.

justice resolves updated, now has geno/neutral routes

>>>/v/724289619
sfx (not to be confused with fbsfx). Its a sound library for FreeBASIC that works on Windows, DOS, and Linux

DRY update is out, posted at the other site

>>3865397
Are you not gonna post it here?

>>3865408
Fine, I'll post it myself https://files.catbox.moe/xhx30t.zip

>>3865412
>>3865408
sorry I had to go do some errands, and I was too lazy to crunch the changelog here so I just didn't bother
also as usual, you should always scan/extract/run the file in VM etc, as with any internet downloaded executable

>>3865443
DRYanon, is that you? I'll go ahead and tell you the issues I've encountered

Reflections cause a major performance hit. Any room with them drops down into the teens of fps.

I can't rebind controls when playing on controller

spelling error in thermos's dialogue in his house

Performance issues in busy battles

Lastly the first enemy encounter only gives $1, even if I have max tp.

I'll post any more issues I find later. Any suggestions or critiques will wait until Ive finished it.

>>3865483
what are your specs? I tested on a PC with a 1050ti, a 2060, an i5 gen 5 integrated graphics and a steam deck and game ran at 60 fps normally (both windows and linux)
if you can share a screen or write the typo it would be easier for me to track it down
the first enemy is set to only give 1 dollar, that multiplied by TP always returns 1 (if you spare you get more over time since spare total gets added to your prize reward)

also someone already reported an anti virus false positive, guess there is just no way around that huh

>>3865489
>what are your specs?
Haswell i5 (4th gen) with HD 4600 graphics. If you want a specific room, the one with the lake and the fast travel door is an example. It gets 60fps everywhere else, but in that room (and other rooms with reflective water) and in a battle against the ruler and 2 pencils fps tanks as well. Does the same in a fight against 3 dark enemies.
>if you can share a screen or write the typo it would be easier for me to track it down
In the sequence in his house. He says "bette" instead of "better".

>>3865494
maybe its something with the new shaders I'm using them, I will take a look later

>new dry this early

i was looking forward to making a "the night before deltarune yellow" image but fuck it I know what I'm playingon my day off tomorrow

>>3865516
OK, now that I'm playing it again the problem is gone. Nothing else changed, and I know for a fact it was only going on in those rooms, so I don't know what's going on.

>>3865590
I was about to suggest you to play with vulkan mode instead of openGL (launch the game via terminal with "--rendering-driver vulkan" option), but if its working now then I guess it must have been shader compilation or some background task that isnt running anymore

>>3865592
>Vulkan
My GPU doesn't support vulkan

>>3865593
at least on linux it does, I tested it with the HD 4600 graphics igpu and wine
though if you are on windows that can be tricky and maybe impossible, I only tested on windows with a gen 9 i5 and the 1050ti, and of course my playtesters too but I don't know their exact specs

>>3865595
It doesn't. That's just MESA's software renderer taking over and doing the rendering instead.

>>3865598
software rendering is lvmpipe and it was really slow in my experiences with other machines, but using the cachyOS "intel-vulkan" package it worked fine and shows the right adapter in vulkaninfo

>>3865599
I haven't heard of that, I take it that isn't a normal part of the kernel?

>>3865602
dunno, just know that the package is working just fine, as you can see here

>>3865397
Are there plans for a native linux port? What about mac?

>>3865641
I need to defend my title as the #1 champion of the world DRY steam deck player

>>3865641
>native linux port
not really, game runs fine with proton/wine and I can't be bothered having to deal with any linux specific issues that might arise from past experience trying to do it on unity
>mac
I don't have a mac to test so likely not either

>>3865644
you can play it on steam deck with proton, people even made custom covers for it on steamDB already

>>3865645
NUMBAR ONE UNDEFEATED

>>3865651
>>3865644
unfortunately for you, i have a steam deck
>>3865483
not dry anon, but if theres too much issues, I will just release it on gamejolt later

>>3865676
fuck I kneel gamejolt-sama

>>3865651
>filename
don't you just add the exe to steam and set it to run with proton?

>>3865834
adding all the art in desktop mode was kind of annoying, steam hawk-ptooied a lot of my pictures

>>3865843
use the steamDB decky plugin and it just downloads whatever people uploaded there (or it lets you select from local files and apply them easily for games without custom art, I've done that to naranja and other projects on my deck)

>>3865846
icee I'll have to try that

okay I need some help
Trojan:Script/Sabsik.FL.A!ml
I downloaded the dry folder and then windows defender reported this. Idk if this is because of me downloading it through idm download manager or if this just happens anyway if i download it.
I know its a false positive but I still wanna see if other anons get this issue

>>3865878
and yes this is gamejolt anon

>>3865878
>>3865880
I can probably try this and make a new build now if needed

>>3865881
pls do, I dont want a bunch of gamejolt comments saying that this is a virus or etc

>>3865883
>>3865881
also windows defender keeps deleting the file and I dont think some people would like to modify their defender settings just so to play dry.

>>3865884
>>3865883
here, i tried exporting directly as zip from godot itself instead of compacting it to zip myself, though the txt readme files arent included due to this https://files.catbox.moe/xngue7.zip
as usual you are free to extract/run in VM etc instead of an actual live pc

>>3865885
thank you, I will test this

For those that missed it in the previous thread that ended.
Here's the finished drawing requests that received from the list of one's sent my way!

Nude Martlet:
https://files.catbox.moe/2x21kk.png

Cole discovers DRY Zenith Martlet for the first time, at the worst time, when he was concerned for her.
And sees a unforgettable sight.
This was very fun to work on:
https://files.catbox.moe/m987bh.png

Zenith Martlet Pregnant with Clover, after she gets him to settle down:
https://files.catbox.moe/jirp38.png

Normal pregnant Zenith Martlet:
https://files.catbox.moe/b644kg.png

Feel free to send me some here to, if there's any on your mind!

>>3865897
any updates?

>>3866007
You're once again doing gods work.
Your Martlet and Zenith stuff is always a treat to see.

>>3865885
Not gamejolt anon, but I tried downloading this myself and it still triggered the false positive in Windows Defender. This time it's Trojan:Script/Wacatac.B!ml

>>3866115
guess there is just no way around it then, but its weird I didn't get these in my windows tests (they were on windows 10, dunno if its a 11 issue since I don't use it)

>>3866119
I'm also on Windows 10, so I don't necessarily think it's an 11 issue.
How did your testers obtain the game, out of curiosity? Like did you send it directly to them, or did they download it off a website like we do? My crack theory is that certain circumstances might make Windows Defender more trigger happy.

>>3866120
I sent the zip directly to them through whatsapp

>>3866120
out of curiousity, has anyone had trouble getting it from catbox? I ran into a similar problem a little while back downloading the martlet model

>>3866121
Yeah, my running theory is that Defender acts stricter with files downloaded from the browser. I doubt this will change results, but I'll experiment with other browsers and file sources (eg. reuploading it to itch and downloading through Firefox).
I also seem to recall reading somewhere that Windows Defender checks files against a database of sorts, so it deems files scanned by less people as being more suspicious. If that's the case, it might just be a matter of time until this happens less.
I don't recall where I read that, but I think it was either the Gamejolt comments for DRY or the Github issues page for w64devkit (a compiler toolchain that occasionally runs into this same problem)

>>3866129
>eg. reuploading it to itch
Decided to try this to see if a different download source other than Catbox might change any results. In case anyone wants to try it out too:
https://burgertrucking.itch.io/dry-reup
Password: ILOVETV

I will delete this page whenever the release goes public.

Undertale 2 is what Undertale should have been.
A real RPG.

>>3866143
remember to check the hashes/prepare sandboxing before running this, just in case

>>3866149
Yeah, I was hoping including my own hashes would help make it seem like I'm not trying to run any scams of my own.
Anyway, my testing with Firefox and this reupload gave the same results, Windows Defender still flags it as a trojan. I think the best we can hope for is stating that it tends to get picked up as a false positive in the release notes.

>>3866158
For what its worth, defender on Windows 7 doesn't have this problem.

the outlaw is trying to open a fountain in your computer obviously, wake up sheeple

>>3866063 sorry it took a while to respond, I needed to go to sleep
My windows defender did not report any issues. My os is win 11 ltsc. I downloaded it through chrome.
However I still need to test some stuff more, i will tell you the results tomorrow since I'm somewhat busy0

>>3866007
Awesome stuff! Here's hoping we can see more Martlet or Zenith stuff.

>>3866007
Kind of interested to know what Clover's experiencing considering he's conscious within Zenith Martlet.

>>3866257
A slightly more fucked up version of the Meta Flowey boss fight, but with Martlet's ovaries instead of Flowey's petals to shoot at.

>>3866258
I'd highly doubt it would fucked up, since Flowey was intentionally trying to mindfuck Clover.
Whereas here Zenith Martlet isn't trying to do that.
She's already taking in his soul, and Martlet isn't the type of person to mind rape someone for pleasure like Flowey.
If Clover and Martlet can converse in her mind, then it's likely she'd simply talk to him, to convince to let her do her thing.
Unlike Flowey she's not trying to permanently absorb Clover's soul, she's intends to give him a better life free of violence as a monster.

>>3866311
I don't feel like rehashing everything I've said these past few threads about Geno Clover and Martlet, or even just their relationship in other routes in general, but to put it short, if Geno Clover can use their power to peer into Martlet's mind to try and find a justifiable reason to kill her, find nothing, and still decide to kill her anyway, I really don't think anything's going to talk them out of their views.
Also, even if she isn't trying to mind rape them in this context, she is still forcibly transforming their body, which I can't imagine is a whole lot better for them.
Basically, Geno Clover is such a horrible person that realistically speaking talking them out of being a genocidal racial extremist just isn't really an option, and forcing them to undergo a transformation like that probably isn't going to make them any more receptive towards the idea of not obliterating monsterkind.

>>3866258
>>3866311
This feels like an in between type of thing to be honest.
On one hand Zenith Martlet wouldn't do all the messed up mental shit that Flowey did in the Meta Flowey fight.
On the other hand if Clover is conscious, then their essentially being remade/reborn and they're complete lucid throughout the entire experience.
If we are to assume it's a case of a new body being made, and the soul is then naturally placed inside it. Then it probably wouldn't be so bad.
All that said, I do agree Martlet isn't trying to absorb Clover's soul the way Flowey tried to, so she'd likely have more success getting Clover to listen.
I mean at the end of the day, she's literally remaking his body into that of a monster, or making a new monster body for his soul inhabit.
Either way Clover wouldn't be trapped within her forever.

>>3866258
As the other anons have pointed out, it's highly unlikely Zenith Martlet would do any of the shit that Flowey did, even in this context,
So the chances of Clover experiencing something more fucked up than whatever Flowey was doing are incredibly low.

>>3866328
I've seen this debate in several threads, but something interesting that someone pointed out is the levels.
Frisk at level 19, you know, after they've basically massacred the Underground, can still turn it around. After everything they did, it's still possible for them to reset and go a better route.
Such a thing is also possible for Clover, yeah like Frisk they've done a lot of pretty bad things, and seem very far gone, but the general consensus is as long as their not level 20, it's still possible for them to change.
Lv 20 is considered the point of no return. So while do think it would take a very ungodly amount of time for Martlet to convince him to see reason, it's definitely possible for her to do to a lv 19 Clover, if she puts him in a position where he has no choice but to listen to reason.

>>3866338
How would it be less fucked up? Wouldn't be Martlet doing the same thing that Meta Flowey was doing to Clover?

>>3866357
No, because Martlet wouldn't doing what Meta Flowey was doing.
For one Zenith Martlet wouldn't try to mind rape Clover, that's just not her.
And second of all, if she's trying to convince them to allow her to do what she's trying to do, why would further antagonize Clover?
If anything, she probably do the complete opposite of whatever Meta Flowey did.

gamejoltanon, sig, anyone. Please save us from this nightmare of a conversation

>>3866164
I gotta wonder, is it worth running an antivirus on 7 at this point?

>>3866378
Your best nightmare, one might say.

>>3866143
Seems to work fine for me. Using scan manually on EXE also does not reveal anything
Other versions haven't worked.

>>3866378
You call this a nightmare conversation? You must be a lightweight.
This is nothing, compared to some of stuff that's been brought up.
Also admittedly, I find the topic interesting.

>>3866257
There's the experience of Martlet taking in his soul, which probably won't be that bad, as she's not trying to absorb it outright.
If it they can talk in Martlet's mind, it will likely be completely different and nothing like Meta Flowey.
Then there's the fact that Clover is being reborn as a monster, which I imagine will be a strange sensation.

>>3866386
Same. I find the topic intriguing.
Take out the fetish stuff, it's an interesting topic.

>>3866393
>>3866402
You could get rid of the fetishism by replacing the unbirthing with a cryotube doohickey that serves as an artificial womb. I wouldn't mind reading a story about that, but such a radical program would take more competence than Chujin or Alphys would be capable of.

>>3866386
>>3866402
>>3866406
Me personally, I find the possibility of a monster of child bearing age, being able to take a human soul, and have them being reborn as a monster an interesting concept.
Especially in Zenith Martlet's case because of all the determination in her body.
Then of course what Clover's soul is experiencing in her womb.
I'm not even interested in the fetishism, I just genuinely find the concept interesting.

>>3866385
Did you download from catbox and allow the threat before downloading from itch? Doing this makes it not trip for me, but when I revoke the allowance, it trips again

>>3866382
Generally, I think 24/7 antivirus is a waste of resources on any system, but having a local file scanner you can run on command is handy.

>>3866257
Since Zenith Martlet isn't absorbing Clover's soul outright, it would probably be akin to shared senses, with a mix of other sensations.
Like Clover would see and feel what she sees, then there's the fact he's getting reborn into a new monster body, which I imagine will be a very unique experience.

>>3866378
the fact that it took two years to get to blatant fetishshit posting is a miracle in and of itself but yeah it's all downhill from here

>>3866465
What do you use for your local file scanner (for 7 and XP)? I remember using MSE back in the day, but I swear last I tried that it wouldn't work because they took some servers offline or something.

>>3866487
That's what happens when you stop getting new official content after a while, and when the source material doesn't have enough wiggle room to keep things alive like the original UT did.