Thread 3865601

Which game won the war? Which is actually better?

I hesitate to praise Larianslop, but I enjoyed dos2 more than I enjoyed pillars 2. They’re both alright.

>>3865601 (OP)
Larian won

DoS2 and as if the main game was not enough it has that based game master mode that lets you create your own D&D campaigns.

More games need to do that. I can´t stress that enough.

>>3865601 (OP)
Divinity: Original Sin 2 emerges as the superior title in the rivalry with Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire, securing greater commercial dominance and critical acclaim through its innovative tactical combat, environmental interactivity, and robust replayability features like co-op and the Game Master mode, which foster endless creative possibilities absent in Deadfire's more narrative-driven structure. While Deadfire excels in world-building with its expansive archipelago exploration and flexible real-time/turn-based hybrid combat, earning a solid 90 Metacritic score, it falls short of Original Sin 2's 95 Definitive Edition rating due to clunkier UI, less dynamic companions, and underwhelming initial sales of roughly 110,000 units against Original Sin 2's over 7.5 million copies sold. Ultimately, Original Sin 2's accessibility, visual polish, and multiplayer depth propelled it to broader cultural impact and enduring popularity, declaring it the victor in both market conquest and overall excellence.

>>3865637
This isn't funny, it's just sad.

>>3865601 (OP)
Deadfire is the better game but DoS2 won.

>>3865637
>LLM
the reality of modern day internet discourse is so fucking grim it's almost funny

>>3865601 (OP)
I preferred POE2 more. Its story and characters are an absolute mess, but it's probably got my favorite implementation of RTWP combat and a fun character building system. I'll also give it bonus points for going with a setting that isn't super common in CRPGs

I thought DOS2 was alright overall, but I've got so many gripes with its combat system. And as someone always points out whenever it's brought up, it's final act is disastrously bad and miserable to slog through.

Nobody cares or remembers PoE2 except his handful of admirers on this website.

>>3865601 (OP)
I´m one of the few that actually enjoyed the ship battle minigame in Deadfire.

>>3865755
They just couldn’t restrain themselves from making the non-European ship the best.

>>3865601 (OP)
Kinda crazy comparison. Second most popular CRPG of all time vs gay fish.

PoE2 is only better if you're a boomer and MUST have a RTWP system. Or you're a big Sawyer simp, idk. What's sad though, is that PoE2 being a flop crushed him, and Obsidian will likely never be allowed to make another CRPG again.

>>3865601 (OP)
Deadfire is vastly better than DOS2 after you apply mods to them both. DOS2 is just ... not a very well designed game in terms of mechanics. At fucking all.

Deadfire's weaknesses are the quippy comedy tone established by certain companions due to the voice actors being the Vox Machina troupe from Critical Role. They're not incompetent voice actors. They're just obnoxious people, and the producers / directors allowed them to warp the writing away from dramatic tone and more towards quirky manic pixie dreamgirl slop. Especially the female actresses for the companions (other females in the game have great actresses and roles which suit the story very well).

DOS2 is fucking awful all the way around. Melodramatic but without any real interactions or development to support it. The mechanics are fucking EXCRUCIATING to deal with. Fucking awful. Gorgeous game.... if you can ignore the hideous elf costumes.

>>3865782
At least the RTWP was well balanced and had a speed rate slider. I don't think Deadfire works at all in a turn-based mode (which it now has by the way). The mechanics are just not meant for that at all.

>>3865808
> the Vox Machina troupe from Critical Role. They're not incompetent voice actors. They're just obnoxious people, and the producers / directors allowed them to warp the writing away from dramatic tone and more towards quirky manic pixie dreamgirl slop
lmao, why do you think Obsidian had Felicia Day as an NPC in NV? They write these characters with the guest star in mind, it's a very conscious choice.

>>3865808
>Gorgeous game.... if you can ignore the hideous elf costumes.
Aren't elves canonically wierd freaks of nature in their setting, not beautiful?

>>3865601 (OP)
I just looked up Steam reviews for both games, out of boredom. 19k vs 190k, holy shit. Sawyer tried so hard with Deadfire, but got absolutely blown the fuck out. I genuinely feel sorry for him. Imagine your Magnum Opus being a game no one gives a fuck about.

>>3865887
People post about NWN2 to this day, though.

>>3865889
That's Bioware though

>>3865896
No, I meant the good one, not the bad one.

>>3865900
Yeh both are Bioware

>>3865887
If I made a game I wouldn't give 2 shits if a horde of tards liked another game more

>>3865902
You would if you wanted to make PoE3 (now with even more niggers!)

>>3865903
No, because I'd rather work on a new game than a sequel.

>>3865637
You’re letting sales and spectacle dictate the conclusion. Divinity: Original Sin 2’s mass-market success reflects accessibility and flashy tactical chaos, not deeper RPG quality. Deadfire commits to what actually defines a role-playing game: meaningful choices with faction-scale consequences, companions whose beliefs can change alliances or break relationships, and a world that reacts to your ideology rather than just your combat style. DOS2’s narrative structure is mostly linear regardless of your antics, its characters are entertaining but rarely transformative, and its victory condition is “win more fights with clever surface combos.” Deadfire instead offers systemic depth — multiclass buildcraft, political decision-making, and narrative replayability that extends beyond a different hat or a different spell. Valuing shiny production and co-op reach over rich role-playing is simply judging the wrong contest; if you care about agency and narrative consequence, Deadfire is the superior cRPG.

>>3865901
Oh, you meant Bioware (good version), my mistake.

>>3865601 (OP)
DoS2 is the worst piece of shit I ever played

>>3865905
>rather than expand my world, finish my story, and prefect my mechanical system…
>I want to make a zero budget point click adventure!

But at least you got to sneak in some sacred negros!

>>3865601 (OP)
There is no reason to play DOS2 when BG3 exists, which is basically just that game but not as mediocre
Deadfire starts a bit slow but is peak CRPG gameplay once it gets going with a very open non-linear structure.

>>3865909
>>I want to make a zero budget point click adventure!
Yeah, he was talking about making that game long before Obsidian even thought about making Pillars. He's a huge Eco fan.

>>3865808
>especially the female actresses for the companions
The one for the fishgirl was pretty good. On the whole I agree with you about the voice acting, though. It was a surprise because normally Obsidian have both good voice acting and voice direction, which is a rarity especially for CRPGs.

>>3865909
Maybe being stuck working on sequels for 10 years or more of your life sounds appealing to you and you have wet dreams about working on Call of Duty for 40 years, but if you're a creative person you want to do new stuff.
You're not gonna see someone like Quentin Tarantino work on Pulp Fiction 1, 2, 3, 4 and shit.

>>3865910
Eh, DOS2's combat is better than BG3's IMO due to the complete and total absence of any RNG mechanics. All of the attacks will land, always. So you can actually plan ahead and be tactical. In BG3 you just reload until the enemies miss most of their attacks, wow such depth, much strategy.

>>3865909
That was literally a passion project for him and he flat out told Feargus Urquhart his boss that he would quit if he didn't get to make it.

>>3865917
Cleverly mitigating risk and adapting is more tactical than the algorithmic approach of DOS2.

>>3865917
>In BG3 you just reload until the enemies miss most of their attacks
lol, you do? what a weirdo.

>>3865925
>>3865926
There isn't really risk mitigation with rng with big swings and outcomes. Same deal with the d20 checks where checks that on paper should be easy keep repeatedly failing.
Larian just don't understand how to design rng. Even Josh had the sense to do stuff like add glancing hits on Pillars.

>>3865929
>There isn't really risk mitigation with rng with big swings and outcomes
Not the case in BG3 thoughbeit

If you make a good game, the chuds win

>>3865936
Except it does. You failing to hit with multiple attacks in a row, enemies landing most hits and even critting, you failing saves, enemies succeeding their saves and more can all happen.
The sample size is too small, too much RNG and too many big swings because it's turn based. It's very easy for the rng to fuck you over unless you play on a low difficulty setting where you can just sleepwalk through the game.

>>3865929
>Larian just don't understand how to design rng
It's D&D 5e, they weren't allowed to fuck with it. It should play exactly like the table top version.

>>3865940
No, this doesn't happen if you know how to make good characters and use the game's systems, and I don't mean meme builds that are only good at high levels.

Here's a skilled player doing arguably the most difficult fight in the game perfectly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QHULSz2SF4

>>3865945
>they weren't allowed to fuck with it. It should play exactly like the table top version.
This is totally wrong though.

We lost.

>>3865929
i've never reloaded until i get the enemy to miss in order to win fights in any game with dicerolls.

>>3865940
People manage RNG just fine in games where a single mistake can mean instant death, like Nethack. BG3 is easy modo

>>3865947
>No, this doesn't happen if you know how to make good characters and use the game's systems
It's literally RNG and someone that doesn't even understand basic probability is not someone I will waste time on.

>>3865950
When you reload a fight you lost, you can easily unintentionally succeed because of better rng. Most chalk it up to them playing better or something, which is generally only a small part. You failing to land blind, hold person and spells like that versus landing them can have huge impact.

>>3865960
>People manage RNG just fine in games where a single mistake can mean instant death, like Nethack. BG3 is easy modo

The point is that only idiots with zero understanding of probability delude themselves into thinking that they're super good and prep for bad RNG. Here's an extreme but perfect example, this speed runner had prepped for some bad luck but no matter how "skilled" you are there is nothing you could've done if the rng doesn't go your way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNw74bzWp10

RNG can and will fuck people over multiple times, not matter how "skilled" they think they are. Especially when rng is poorly implemented like in BG3. This doesn't just apply to combat, but D20 checks. This creates a row of problems and can drive some people to savescum and not feel like the rng aligns with their roleplaying choices. You being proficient in a skill has such a low % impact on the result of your D20 roll it's comical.

>>3865966
You're comparing what is pretty much a slot machine to a game with much more transparency and that gives the player direct control of a significantly greater number of variables during gameplay.

>>3865601 (OP)
What war you retarded psycho bitch?
Pillars is irrelevant next to Divinity, who the fuck is Obsidian? the studio that leeches from others?
Your retarded rivaliries only exist in your shitty bubble bro, nobody cares about Pillars of Mediocrity 2 which is why they tried to mimic Elder Scrolls with Avoid and they lost too, cause they are the epitome of mid, the epitome of bland, dull, safeboring mid games.

>>3865950
I did, long time ago, in Fallout Tactics. I quicksaved (and didn't have any other saves in that mission) about a second before an enemy (a supermutant, I think?) with a machine gun walked around a corner and massacred my half-dead main character.
He could shoot 2 bursts, and I was reloading until he missed both of them so I didn't have to redo the entire mission.

>>3865966
>When you reload a fight you lost, you can easily unintentionally succeed because of better rng. Most chalk it up to them playing better or something, which is generally only a small part
it's easy to first try fights when you understand how to use positioning and your abilities, but the trick is how you handle many fights and many rolls over the course of the whole game. never have i felt like i had to reload continually to win in any diceroll game where i understood the system. it sounds like you have a bias based on a faulty understanding of rng, viewing it in terms of single battles or single checks. rng helps with the tactical elements of singleplayer rpgs, adding chaos, rather than making it a game of pure strategy.
>>3865971
sounds like a miserable way to play a game.

>>3865929
>be Larian
>homebrew checks failing on 1
>homebrew checks succeeding on 20
>add a meme DC 99 check at the end of the game
>add an achievement for passing it
RAISED THE BAR

>>3865601 (OP)
>Divinity Original Sin 2
Combat: 10
Interactivity: 9
Encounter Design: 9
Controls: 8
Level-Design: 8
Progression Mechanics: 8
Exploration: 9
Quests: 8
Dialogue: 8
Characters: 7
Story: 4
Music: 9
Visuals: 8
Interface: 8

>Pillars of Eternity 2
Combat: 1
Interactivity: 2
Encounter Design: 2
Controls: 4
Level-Design: 3
Progression Mechanics: 5
Exploration: 5
Quests: 4
Dialogue: 6
Characters: 6
Story: 6
Music: 5
Visuals: 9
Interface: 7

>>3865601 (OP)
DOS 2 is actually fun to play.

>>3865814
The complaint wasn't that the elf costumes were weird. It's that they were ugly. You'd have one type of clothing which was supposed to be a kilt of leaves and vines, but it ballooned out and flopped around weirdly so it ended up looking like raggy tutu of weird strips flapping and fluttering up. It didn't read like a garment at all, it just looked like whoever rendered the cloth simulation did it on a pocket calculator and just kept the first pass. It was sloppy and amateurish. It was not "exotic primitive fairies cobbled a garment together from magical leaves"... it was babby's first cloth simulation that they shat out the night before the assignment was due. It clashed with the art direction of the rest of the game because the color palettes were garish, over-tuned and flat. They didn't even look like leaves, they looked like someone scribbled on them with mommy's highlighter pen.

>>3865992
I guess, if 1 is a high score and 10 is the lowest, then sure.

My thoughts:
Sawyers fanboys on here are mentally ill, moreso than typical libtard pathologies. It’s time to let the retired dev go.

That said, the 150d roll, the dmg soak / combat speed armor tradeoff, and yes, even the attributes were all improvements on direct ports of dnd, which is heavily constrained by tabletop play in ways a computer game is not. His spell lists were lack luster and needed a stronger OP break out in the 6th+ tiers - some of the most broken spells were 3rd tier or below. He also needed better automation or less abilities to manage for melees - micro if every single character every 6 seconds is more tiresome than straight up turn based combat.

The story and the world were extremely boring Obama-era dogshit with weird reddit sexual political tangents - not just fags, either mind you. Stuff like a weird obsession with “safe, sane, consensual (and boring as shit and intentionally ugly)”. There were no interesting characters or factions or story arcs. I’d like to see the system used to tell a story written by a person whose brains weren’t fried by the dumbest, most beige ideologies ever created.

Deadfire is everything wrong with Divinity (the Reddit writing) with none of the good (carefully crafted encounters)

>>3865940
>too much RNG and too many big swings because it's turn based. It's very easy for the rng to fuc
5th ed is intentionally designed to be the most random and the most swingy version of DnD yet. It was designed by morons.

>>3865601 (OP)
cringe humor and dialogue in DOS2 makes that game unplayable

>>3866093
Take is so accurate it's difficult to add to it.
He didn't finish the boats in a pirate game either.
I did like that you could play an evil/neutral paladin like the Steel Garrote quite a bit. Reminded me what Templar might have become in Dragon Age before libtards fucked that series up too.

The DOS2 story might be a bit more generic overall, but it gets in the way less of your own RP in favor of stupid leftist political statements by the same token. The escape from the slave island start in DOS2 was more narratively and emotionally compelling start than anything in Pillars 1 or 2.
DOS2 did have some pretty cheesy shortcuts past all balance that were easy to abuse, like teleport stacking.

DOS2's interactivity and build potential are just in another two leagues above Pillars 2 anyway. It's got low tier reddit quips instead of full frothing at the mouth libshit. These are the major factors that win it for DOS2 overall.

Os2? What?
This wasn’t even a contest. Os2 got 1000000s of fans, set them up to make the most popular crpg of all time, and still gets support from modders and youtube videos almost a decade later
Nobody even bought deadfire and if they did they tend to just shit on it lol
I always find it strange obsidian got credit for starting the crpg 2nd golden age when os1 was more special, and came out first.
Obsedian only gets credit for anything for taking other studios work and just making a game on top of it, really riding that kotor2 and new vegas wave for a decade.
I remember that hbomber video praising new vegas “it blows my mind they manage to make a game in only 18 months”
Nigga Bethesda did all of the hard work for them, what? I

>>3865601 (OP)
Both are pretty bad, but DOS2 won the war. Deadfire has by far the best art direction among all nu-CRPGs though.

>>3865601 (OP)
Only on this shithole would this even be a question. DOS2 obviously. Kill yourself.

i liked a decent amount of the conversations from dos2.
i hear so much about cringe reddit dialogue but you fags never post any and the only time someone posted cringe from dos2 since it came out i ever seen from this website was
uhhh
the cheese vendor barks from the first game like okay. i don't even think that was cringe. its just salesman barks
i liked wotr but that has by far way more cringe dialouge
i really don't get it desu

My patience for Larian is zilch, nada, zero. They have some serious problems with focus. They need a real tard wrangler over there. Way too much inane bullshit makes it into their games. Their combat engine is okay, but it's not a big deal. PoE is pretty good and just way easier to appreciate. Literally night and day, these two games.

>>3867423
When that elf bitch puts a knife to your throat and you're expected to party her is fucking retarded. You do that to me and you're dead. That shit is 100% soiboi leddit-tier nonsense.

>>3865814
Elves are whatever Larian wants them to be, just like with the rest of their "setting". Rivellon changes with each game. Larian doesn't care about consistency, just whatever they want to do at the moment.

>>3867214
>Argumentum ad populum
cod, mobile games, some shitty chinese gachas all have more "fans" than either of those games which means its way better than DOS2.

>>3865601 (OP)
Both suck

>>3865967
No, I'm explaining to you that this misguided idea that "no dude, i am so good i can prep for bad rng because i am so skilled and smart" is something only clueless idiots use to delude themselves.
RNG with small sample sizes, big impacts, RNG right at the decision moment and multiple points of failiure is flat out bad design. It actually can frequently turn "good" plays into bad ones because of RNG while turning "bad" ones into good because the RNG went their way.
RNG is perfectly fine to use in games IF the designers understand probability and know how to design for it, which Larian absolutely did not know how to do with BG3.

>>3865976
>it's easy to first try fights when you understand how to use positioning and your abilities, but the trick is how you handle many fights and many rolls over the course of the whole game. never have i felt like i had to reload continually to win in any diceroll game where i understood the system. it sounds like you have a bias based on a faulty understanding of rng, viewing it in terms of single battles or single checks. rng helps with the tactical elements of singleplayer rpgs, adding chaos, rather than making it a game of pure strategy.
Ironic, coming from someone with clearly zero understanding of probability and the problems, while also ignoring every single argument and point that was brought up. Then again, that's pretty much every single player out there. Almost no one on this board is even aware of basic shit like law of large numbers, so it's just talking to a bunch of ignoramus about things they're clueless about. Whatever.

>>3869062
>Whatever.
Why do you post like a petulant teenager?

>>3865601 (OP)
Why does the Larian Lizardman look homosexual?

>>3868003
Thats the best ammo you have? You can also just kill her so i don’t really the the issue anon