Thread 2170480

just finished a round of Alpha Centauri. seems as good an excuse as any to create a thread about it
>It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks and become one with all the people!
- Chairman Sheng-ji Yang

I've played this game on and off since it came out decades ago and it is still just as enjoyable as ever

did you doomstack deathspheres?

>>2170746
needlejets and locusts

playing Gaia and sending out wave after wave of Mind Worms to crush Sister Miriam

playing Believers and sending out wave after wave of Belivers to crush the worm slut

>>2171014
>>2171021
ladies! don't fight! there's plenty of space in the feeding bay

reading the wiki when suddenly

>>2171021
Someone compared Miriam to Putin and this concept lives rent-free in my mind

>supposed religious heavyweight, last bastion of Christianity, but in practice just uses it to fool rubes foreign and domestic for blind support
>supposed military heavyweight, but the doctrine ends up boiling down to sending meatwave after meatwave
>basically an inferior version of some Chinese guy

>>2171200
Miriam's AI is different than Miriam in lore. And that's not to defend her ideology in particular, but rather all of the leaders are quite intelligent and respectable while the game mechanics treat the Believers in very unfair ways. Like how nobody gives a fuck about Fundamentalist ethics except her, so she will inevitably go to war with everyone simply because "other player fundamentalist = false".

>>2171212
To add: how I'd fix this in some sort of SMAC2 is to separate religion from social engineering entirely and let each faction develop their own faith, and Miriam would naturally get the most bonuses associated with this.
It's her whole deal, but it leaves her faction orphaned due to zero representation.

>>2171200
>>2171212
>>2171214
Miriam was in the game as an expy of the SNL "church lady". This game came put when the "New Atheists"/"Brights" were picking up steam and thought of themselves very highly. Late 90s/Early 2000s, unironically wore Spaghetti Monster Shirts, bought The God Delusion/liked Dawkins, went onto campuses to insult preachers, etc. They expect that you think the Miriam obnoxious caricature is tasteful and "a real problem in the real world, and the obvious villain of this game". She spends the game being an irritant and impeding the noble, atheist "science" factions (which the Brights consider one and the same)

>>2171231
No, I strongly disagree with that. Miriam's lore and quotes portray her as an intelligent person - maybe even the most intelligent person because she alone criticizes some of the more dystopian secret projects and technologies - the actual problem is the game mechanics treat her as the Civ archetype equivalent of Montezuma.

>>2171231
nerds who played the game at the time (and redditors to this day) definitely read all this into her, but I agree with the other anon that she wasn't written as such and was actually pretty well fleshed out by Brian Reynolds.

is there any Deirdre Skye x Mindworms smut? asking for a friend

>>2171238
>Miriam's lore and quotes portray her as an intelligent person
All of her lore portrays her as a religious nut. She demands blind faith and preaches against the kind of critical thinking associated with technological development because it threatens her power.

Her character is intelligent only in the way that a charismatic demagogue is intelligent because she can convince a whole faction to follow her. I guess she's also intelligent enough to be pragmatic, because while her faction gets penalized in research (because she's loudly preaching against it) she's very good at stealing it from others because she still needs it as much as everyone else. The game mechanics seem perfectly in line with her characterization; a bullshitter whose quotes are made to sound convincing enough to keep the drones in line but won't stand up to scrutiny. If you think she's the most intelligent person in that world based on her quotes, you might be playing devil's advocate too much.

>>2171231
>>2171376
It's quite obvious she's just an atheists caricature, Inherit The Wind (a complete misrepresentation of William Jennings Bryan and the entire Scopes trial as an evolutionist aesop) all over again. It's just a product of its time.

>>2171376
*Yes, that is how she is portrayed

>>2171376
None of her quotes are even about religion, they're all about the danger of various technologies.

>>2171245
Deirdre Skye x Santiago scissoring art, hopefully. Beastiality, gross.

>>2171231
this guy never read the books...

>>2171245
no

>>2171376
this is just not true. miriam is a chemist and one of the few people on the Unity who actually give a damn about ethics. When Captain Garland got shot, she was the only one speaking for the crew - Yang was outright suggesting to murder them all. If there's a stupidest person in the franchise award, it belongs squarely to Santiago.

Santiago always seemed like the odd one out to me, every other faction leader can be traced to a significant strain of thought when the game came out late 90s. I guess she's supposed to be a survivalist? Really wooden characterization compared to all the others, no depth to her

>>2171435
Santiago is another leader with an orphaned ideology. 90's era survivalism was indeed a thing, and mostly revolved around conspiracy theories about the government and NWO. But Santiago ends up as just generic militarism with no particular rhyme or reason besides "muh survival of the fittest". She's not fascist, nor is she a Heinleinian citizen soldier democracy.

>>2171435
>>2171437
in the books she's a downright fucking moron. she's directly responsible for the unity exploding.
because of her "survivalism".

>>2171441
>not even head of security, that honor goes to Yang
>not even a general, just a colonel

>>2171430
Are the books any good, and available in audio book form?

>>2171466
They suck desu.

>>2171463
she's a paramilitary 'colonel'. she's not even a real colonel

>>2171487
fuck off idiot, they rule>>2171466
>>2171466
google it

>>2171489
Kiss a toad, they suck dick

>>2171497
kind of like you do when you're not a retard shitnig ropebait fagcuck. which is never. pussy

>>2171499
Words words words
Fuck off band-kid

>>2171231
>noble, atheist "science" factions
This is one thing that always bothered me about the 1990s/2000s designs for a lot of media, I always wanted a techno-religious faction and very few games would let me indulge in it, most putting them opposed to each other. About the only time in the Civ series I remember being able to vaguely go that route was with Persia in Civ3, who had religious and scientific as their faction traits.

Even Stellaris makes Spiritualism and technological development through materialism opposed ethics, so the same line of thought is still going on even if it's losing traction.

>>2170746
The fuck is a deathsphere? Is that what gravships are called? I usually prefer hovertanks since they have 3 attacks with elite rank and can drop pod from far away.

But if you need to just wipe someone out fast Needlejets with nerve gas are great and can be used against anything without collateral damage unlike nukes.

>>2171692
helicopters are bretty good as well, especially for harassing

>>2171231
Interesting thought, but Miriam isn't megalomaniac. Totalitarian shitholes are just using religion as a facade for controlling the population.

>>2171688
40k Imperium is as techno-religious as it gets, but even there real science is at odds with religious practices and tech-priests practicing scientific method are branded heretics.
I think the new Leagues of Votann actually worship their AI though.

>>2171437
>nor is she a Heinleinian citizen soldier democracy
There's one Spartan quote that always reminds me of the scene in Starship Troopers where the guy gets a knife put through his hand during training

>He held his arm too stiffly, and so was thrown back repeatedly, until at last I seized his forearm and snapped it back against itself. His training suffered while the arm healed, of course, but I felt this was a lesson he must learn early, and well.

>>2171692
>The fuck is a deathsphere
pretty sure it's one of the generated names for gravship designs

>>2171245
https://limewire.com/d/uKKDr#FW8LO0Jm7v

>>2172144
use catbox.moe

Can anyone explain in depth Yang's philosophy?

>>2172323
collectivism over individualism to 11

>>2172323
the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

>>2172323
Collectivist spiritualism. Achieve zen while working 20 hours per day, sleep in communal pods and eat the flesh of your grandmother, and dream of hijacking Planet's hivemind to ensure immortality.

Is nerve stapping a good idea late game?

>>2172323
Being based.

>>2172365
Nerve stapling is situational. Normally, you'd want to solve whatever public order problem is going on, and usually that's easy enough to do or you should never get into a situation where it is unsolvable. You are partially shooting yourself in the foot by nerve stapling, as if I remember correctly it guts a city's science output and I think other things as well.
Saying that, enemy cities? Solar flares? Nerve staple away.

>>2171688
Sins of Solar Empire? THE MOTHERFUCKING ADVENT?

Eve Online? Amarr?

Dunno what you were smoking...

>>2172390
To be fair, Amarr were an unapologetic "evil" faction (In the context of the real-life time period, fanatically religious slaving despots were seen as the worst possible outcome for a nation) for a lot of EVE's early years, it wasn't until around 2007-2008 CCP did a 180 and tried to make the four all be different shades of grey. That's how you got things like the dark underside of Gallente's political system or Minmatar's tribal warfare.

>>2170480 (OP)
When I first played this game at 10 or 11 I thought that Yang was a disembodied head bionically attached to some sort of mechanical flying unit. I just kind of accepted it was a thing without thinking about it for years, only later did I look at it and realize it's just an oversized collar looking like a miner.

>>2172374
Surprisingly competent reply considering where we are. Unironically good job anon.

>it guts a city's science output and I think other things as well
Yes. It also gives a penalty to defence on that base for probe ops.

>>2172527
Lol

>>2171692
I... I'm pretty sure I played this game at some point and I have no idea what you're talking about. Time to reinstall I guess

>>2173270
Needlejets are the jets of the game. Very effective, first one to get them is usually going to be the big dog. Anon also mentioned Hovertanks, which are essentially the upgrade to Speeders, and the best ground-exclusive attack vehicle. When he said he didn't know what Deathspheres are, those are Gravships, the final vehicle type unlocked by Graviton Theory (Explore 13). They are basically the best "ground-type" vehicle in the game because they use flying rules (e.g. they can cross ocean as though it's open terrain, but don't have a fuel limit). All of the most expensive, stupidly-overpowered vehicles you usually make at the end of the game tend to be Deathspheres of some kind.

>start new game as Free Drones
>get bullied mercilessly by pirates and aliens for decades
>cuck to their demands just to survive
>200 years later picrel
We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

>>2173325
How the fuck did you play SMACX? Are you still on Windows 10? I upgraded to 11 years ago and unfortunately it looks like the newest updates are totally incompatible with the game in some way.

>>2173370
Allegedly this mod is required
https://github.com/induktio/thinker/

>>2173370
wine64 on Debian trixie

>>2173325
I have no idea how you managed to lose early game vs them. With that industry bonus you should've drowned them in rovers.

>>2173276
Based. Gravships with clean reactors are the missile rover of lategame.

>>2173548
I spawned close to the Caretakers and they absolutely destroyed me with their 6-3-1 starting units until I researched the ability to talk to them. after that they were actually really chill - gave me plenty of tech for free. I will kill them last

>>2173550
Ouch.

>>2173619
'blue-sky' makes so much more sense now.

>>2173548
I never really saw the point of gravships. At the point you can afford to spam them armored, you've probably won. If you can't armor them then jets + tanks are better.

>>2173325
update: the caretakers stabbed me in the back and stole a bunch of tech. now the usurpers are my best friends

>>2173370
https://github.com/DrazharLn/pracx

dammit I wish I could get into it but the interface is just too rough for me - moving around and all that is a pain. and before you say anything I'll have (You) know that I'm in my mid 30s. are there any mods or anything to tighten up the controls? trust me - I want to like this game.

>>2173990
Extremely mobile across all terrain while being able to capture bases unlike copters or jets. Sucks they have a weakness to air superiority tho.

>>2174050
I first got into AC almost in my 30s, so you have no excuse. Just learn common hotkeys for infrastructure and basic actions.

>>2174038 provides additional overlays and whatnot but there is no way around hotkeys.

>>2174096
thank you

>>2174050
>select with left mouse button
>hold left mouse button to move
>find everything else in the right click menu or use the hotkeys
if this is rough you must be comatose

>>2174175
Worse. He's awake enough to post here.

>>2174050
>what? i have to press F for farm and M for mine? I'm going INSAAAAAANNNEEE

>>2174050
This video has some tips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HLF5B9FEYU

why could they never surpass the first SMAC?

>>2170480 (OP)
I BELIEVE

>notice I can ask the data'jaks to vote for me as supreme ruler, with only the cyberneticists as the third human faction
>think that "aw sweet I can win the game"
>game informs me that I must wipe out the alien scum first
so close yet so far. also maybe I should give up thought control since these irrational w*men don't seem to like it

>>2179350
Maybe you should ask the cyborgs to graft you a pair of balls so you can take care of those ayys

>behind in tech and population
>Yang declares war on me
>manage to hold him off with navy and some needlejets parked in a strategically placed airbase I built on an islet next to his continent
>start terraforming a bunch of emtpy space in advance while I build a batch of colony pods to pop boom and double my empire
>finally get everything set up around my new bases and start pop booming
>get all of them to population 7
>power graph spikes above everyone else's (screenshot was taken at this point)
>switch back to Planned + Knowledge, get shard weapons tech while Yang still has chaos
>decide to take advantage of my now doubled industrial capacity and tech lead over Yang
>build a few dozen shard amphibious invaders and shard battery artillery
>invade and easily crush units, taking over 3 of his bases including one with The Virtual World that he conquered from Zakharov
>he starts building dozens of probe teams
>I build a few of my own quickly in each of the conquered bases
>he sends waves of them at each of the bases and despite perimeter defense + sensor arrays + higher morale, my probe units start dropping like flies
>he uses mind control to retake all bases AND MY UNITS INSIDE THEM
>taunts me
>is now building shard units of his own
>my power graph nosedives

I'm seriously considering ragequitting (again) right now bros, I want to cry

>>2179461
What difficulty you playing at sister?

>>2179461
>picks a fight with yang gang
>becomes part of it
the goals of the group and of the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is the achieve enlightenment

>>2179461
That's why you hold back and play carefully until you build the hunter seeker algorithm, and only then unleash a blitzkrieg across the entire planet

>>2172323
Buddhist legalism
You are a cog in the machine that is the state, accept that you are a cog and are going to be treated as such. Overcome the suffering associated with being a cog by becoming master of your internal mind. Become zen, achieve oneness with the whole of the State and People, rejoice in a life of little material substance by becoming a thing which transcends its physical shell's demands.

>>2182404
Gotta love believers and how easy they get that for free.

>>2171231
That's cool Miriam. I'm still going to nuke you.

>My gift to industry is the wage worker, or Wagie. Specially designed for labor, the Wagie's muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot >feel pain?
– Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, "Essays on Mind and Matter"

>Hey Foreman Domai
>You call your faction the Free Drones yet you still have drone riots. Curious.
>- Turning Point Chiron

>my infiltrator tells me the Usurpers are making at least one planetbuster
should I be worried?

>>2171692
Hovertanks are not bad, but Helljumpers [Infantry with airdrop and the Space Elevator perk] do it for me. That additional bonus to city fights is nice and they are a fair amount cheaper.

>>2187593
>What do I care for your cooming? Jugs, even poonan, is no more than information before the cumbrain, data fed to the computer of the fap. The lesson is simple: you have received the information, now act on it. Take control of the wang and you shall become master of the jizz.

just won a game on Librarian difficulty as Zacharov. will probably try Transcend next time. also nerve gas really does a number on enemy cities. excellent for de-ayyy-ification

>>2172323
It's like if the Dao De Jing had been written by Nietzche. I never want to (nor am I able to) get off Chairman Yang's Wild Ride.

>>2170480 (OP)
I BELIEVE IN YOU

>>2171376
>She demands blind faith and preaches against the kind of critical thinking associated with technological development because it threatens her power.

"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesteryear. But it was never the streets that were evil."

How is this anti-technology?

>>2171200
Woman leader.

>>2171376
There are no atheists in the history of science

>>2193289
>nerve gas really does a number on enemy cities. excellent for de-ayyy-ification
I usually try to maintain Noble integrity all the way to the end and I appreciate the fact that using nerve gas against alien factions is considered moral and just.

>>2200251
Solar flares are a thing...

>>2170480 (OP)
Everyone gets stuck on the act part

>>2200259
Not if you play without random events

>>2171392
It's ironic that you caricaturize Inherit The Wind in turn, which is actually positive towards Christians. There's just as much of a biblical argument for the defense's position in that movie, with rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and the final scene showing that the defense attorney was a devout Christian all along. It was in fact the prosecutorial side that got involved in demagoguery and casted aspersions towards the faith of the defense that were not acting Christlike.

Anons, it has been like 5 five years since I played SMAC. Any suggestions about playing a new game?. I used to play with the Proctor or the Cyborgs, but I am open to other factions as long as I can get the ropes again.

>>2202100
Well, start with all original factions, don't turn up the heat or difficulty too much and bumrush water if it's SMAX. Bumrush crawlers if it's not.

>>2202142
or just play as the pirates unless that makes it too easy

>>2202286
I don't think it gets easier than that. Caretaker ayys included.

>>2202291
I still got absolutely mauled by the Cyborgs in my last Transcend playthrough :'(

>>2202301
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmjn_vrShmU

>>2202286
Pirates you say huh? I cannot recall playing with that faction. Maybe I will give it a try on Specialist diffculty.
The most annoying (or funny) is recalling what tech are worth investigating.

>>2203000
they're relatively ez because you start in the water so you can expand unmolested for many turns. but I overextended myself I think

>make peace/pacts with all my fellow humans
>vendetta on all the ayys
>start building nerve gas needlers
oh yeah it's all coming together

>>2204304
plz post screenshots :3

>>2203100
You have free reign over water for 100 turns easy, you have bonus minerals in ocean on top of all the busted shit SMAX added for water, they get 2 buildings for free, of which naval yard which works for probe teams too and the Pressure Dome not only makes you immune to flooding but also doubles as a third free building recycler. And if the AI does decide to attack you, you get to capture their units.
>>relatively

>>2205100
>And if the AI does decide to attack you, you get to capture their units
oh yeah this happened to me a few times and I didn't understand why because I didn't add any special ability to my units for it. only now does it dawn on me that oh yeah, pirates

>>2170480 (OP)
>- Chairman Sheng-ji Yang

I make sure to squash this slant eye bug as early as I can in the game because he is a constant source of conflict and is able to churn out infantry like a motherfucker. Used a planet buster on me too, which resulted in my razing his cities and raping/murdering the populations.

>>2170796
Needlejets early game basically can be used to blitzkrieg across the map, wiping out enemy ground units, while a small ground force does the mopping up and taking cities.

>>2205858
It's insanely good once you realize "civilian" naval units such as formers, colonizers and probe teams count too.

>>2205928
They never really fall off. Worst case scenario if the enemy has lots of cruisers or AAA you get to use some of them as transports to drop infantry. Or soften him with cruise missiles and then send in the gasjets.

>>2205959
>They never really fall off.

They kinda do by the time I can mass produce improved cruise missiles in 1 turn in my forge cities. By the time I'm sufficiently strong to be ethnically cleansing the entire planet my surviving force of shard and better needlejets is still active but I switch to cruise missiles and drop pod hover tanks which do orbital insertions from my space elevator.

>you get to use some of them as transports to drop infantry.

Oh shit, I didn't realize you could transport infantry in needlejets. Which feature allows that and how early can you get it?

>only now notice you can put a transport pod on a jet
guys this solves so many problems (until you get drop pods)
>send missiles to soften up defenses
>send gas jets after that
>finally fly in with ground troops and capture what's left
>>2205919
I have a yang problem right now. gas helps but it's not enough. also the other humans are getting angry at me for gassing the hivescum

>>2206042
You didn't try changing the main module? And no, they don't fall off if you don't want them. By far the best counter to massive worm swarms if you piss of the hivemind and THE budget solution to other people sending cruise missiles or deathstacks your way.

>>2206225
>supply jet that needs to refuel every other turn
for what purpose?

>>2206232
Convenience? Feeding those super popbooms, setting up a new base in 5 turns instead of 50, finishing special projects instantly without artefacts, sectioning off an area to buy a turn. Lots of uses if you're inclined. Between those and regular armored supply crawlers you can bring some real cancer to Chiron.

>>2171376
>blind faith
Dumbass

>>2171376
Man's unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me.

Are there any let's play's of this game on youtube that aren't made by mouth-breathing retards?

As a mouth-breathing retard myself, I'd like to see someone actually play this game properly, explaining their strategy, why they pick certain techs, switching SE choices etc.
I finished one campaign recently with Aki the robo girl, but i only played on Talent.
I had the thinker mod installed, and I guess that made it a bit harder?
But I'd really like to see someone good play this

>>2209193
I liked Grimith's playthrough his recent one not the one he did like a decade ago

>>2209348
thanks

>>2209193
Not a video, but here's a link to some text based game reports with screenshots.

He's really good at the game. Reaches Transcendence within 150 turns or less in his games. On a tiny map he even finished in 60 turns.

http://www.dos486.com/alpha/

>>2210712
this inspired me to try a couple of rounds on a 16x16 map to see if I can manage to win a Transcend game that way. the answer is no

Favorite faction and why? Mechanics only so no larp reasons please.

>>2214768
Gaians. An early worm is the best exploration unit and usually gets you easy artifacts and other goodies and lots of money from killing other worms. Extra efficiency is always nice, and the ability to boom with democratic+planned is something I value more than free market. It's just a very well-rounded faction with no big weaknesses.

>>2214768
>Mechanics only
University or Morgan as far as the vanilla concerned. Free research nodes plus innate +2 research give you +80% to your research assignations from the get go. Insanely massive boost to science.

Morgan is great because he can effectively run free market without adopting free market, and his commerce bonus benefits my preferred playstyle of building up diplomacy with AIs to get that sweet trade revenue income. In terms of pure science output Uni is better but Morgan overall gets more energy (my ballpark estimate).

In SMAX it's the pirates (boats are neat in general, and the faction itself is unique). Also I find Progenitors amusing - being a highly advanced faction which is locked into internal war with its mirror counterpart is also a very rare idea.

>>2215909
why not go with University if you want basedence?

holy brap I did it
>16x16 map, abundant lifeforms, transcend difficulty, gaians
>only me and yang spawn
>give yang everything he wants so I can expand in peace
>yang launches "surprise" attack in 2212 AD
>manage to hold off the initial attack
>gear up for nerve gas missile troops and scout meat shields
>march into yang's territory, decimating his cities as I go
>get very close to victory
>worms.txt
>lots of fucking worms.txt because I turned native lifeforms up to max
>have to spend several turns just clearing worms that are in the way of yang's last cities
>finally manage to get enough gas rovers close enough to capture his last city in one turn
in retrospect I probably shouldn't have chosen the Gaians. there's not enough time to spec into worm tech for it to be useful. but hey, my first Transcend victory!

>>2216774
>beat yang within 30 turns of him invading me

>>2215757
>>2215909
Interesting. I expected at least one Yang or Miriam for the easy pop booms at least.

>>2217079
They're both fun to play once you get the ball rolling, but they both suffer from a slow start. Yang with his economy penalty and inability to either boom with demo+planned or properly benefit from FM, and Miriam's inability to tech ANYTHING at the start has sometimes made me miss all the early secret projects.

I see Miriam as the most rewarding faction if you do manage to catch up because the faith offense bonus is a very unique advantage if you're otherwise on equal footing in tech.

>>2217420
>they both suffer from a slow start
Do elaborate. I'm rusty but I'd name them as THE factions to get that ball rolling early.

-2 ECO is like -1 energy per base with you having more bases, and quicker, than everyone (except probably drones) else put together more than offsetting that. And he can boom just fine with creche + planned + gold age or just enjoy that +1/3/6GRO if gold age isn't available yet or for some other reason. If anything he's the king of (early game) wide.

Miriam, huh, yeah, no knowledge value can be annoying but those 10 initial turns are hardly make or break and you do get to trade for techs. But that +2SUP is insane for early game and that +25ATT doesn't really fall off. Army of formers not eating your paltry early yields? Sure. Army of ghetto rovers taking over whatever you want? Yes please. You want peace, sure, enjoy my notmujahedeen probing your ass and you don't get to do anything about it.

>>2217448
Having to go into golden age to boom is hardly "just fine", especially with the minimal energy Yang has to get it going. And some of that little energy is lost to waste since you're probably at exactly 0 Efficiency, not to mention possibly spending it on bureaucracy drones first. Better to forget booming and grow fast (but not boom-fast like others) on condenser farms. And that -1 energy per base you can definitely feel in the early game when you're trying to rush formers and recycling tanks. The cash just isn't there like it is for other factions. The 10% growth and industry discounts aren't that impressive at the start on transcend difficulty when the AIs also get discounts.

I've had plenty of games with Miriam where my starting neighbor isn't impressed with the scout patrols I've only been able to build and they declare vendetta immediately. Good luck tech trading in that situation. Sure you can get lucky, and you can get the former tech from a pod, but that's not something that others have to rely on. Anyone can tech steal with probes just as well as Miriam, but Miriam takes longer to get to planetary networks - and while she's working to get her tech stealing going, those wonders might be going already.
>+2SUP is insane
Meh. Everyone gets some free support, and then it's only one mineral if you go above it. Not to mention nearly everyone can run police state for a while at the start if you like free support.

Like I said, slow start, but their faction bonuses obviously become very strong once you get the momentum going. Though I'm not sure if Yang's late game is that impressive without ever being able to run Democratic.

>>2217533
I have no idea how are you struggling with
energy. Do you not go for wide and police state or something?

>The 10% growth and industry discounts aren't that impressive at the start on transcend difficulty when the AIs also get discounts.
Levels the playing field a bit. The efficiency immunity is where it's at.

>>2217537
I'm just saying it takes longer for Yang to finish a recycling tank in each base than it does for others. You do use all your early game energy to rush formers and recycling tanks, right?

>>2217652
>You do use all your early game energy to rush formers and recycling tanks, right?
Not really. I'm more of the run on all fours, dick out, frothing at the mouth and colonize as much as possible inclination. My early game formers, and there are few of those, build roads and sensors. Plant a forest now and then when available. Yeah, you'll lose on some early wonders and yeah an early war will slow you down but when you have 15 bases to his four-five and you don't spend too much income on building upkeep or those free support slots on formers you can have a pretty meaty peacecorp available.

I had a feeling from picking your brain you're one of those perfectly manicured empires tallfags, and that's fine. But we have a different approach. I play on trannycend too so there's no confusion.

>>2217679
>you're one of those perfectly manicured empires tallfags
Hardly - I'll make use of every inch of land and sea, but I find that there's usually enough room to expand that I can leave some space between bases to let them grow later. I don't like going tall in AC because hab domes are stupidly far away in the tech tree, but I also don't like to go ICS with too many tiny bases to micromanage.

I guess I prefer a rectangular approach, being both tall and wide; build bases as tightly as I can but not within the fat cross of another base, fill the land with forest, some condenser farms and all the boreholes I can fit, and meanwhile hit pop caps everywhere and never stop expanding. I find that this is a comfortable way to play that guarantees victory against the AIs but also makes use of all the game's mechanics, and it gives value for secret projects that speed up terraforming and keep the drones under control.

>>2217779
>hybrid
Eww. Nah, just kidding but I was close enough. I can see hive not being your go-to if you're used to rushing your infrastructure with energy, without, you know, mostly ignoring it until crawlers come online. Thankfully the game has enough flavors to cater to different playstyles.