Thread 40959911

If God didn't really want the world to rot away, he wouldn't have created humanity with the configuration to sin or allowed cosmic principalities to mess with us. He could have at any time just overwritten human configuration or just annihilated the soul of evil beings. Why would someone suffer eternally because he did bad things for what? 70 years in the material world at best?
If there are lies, deaths, plagues, wars, rapes, tortures, infidelity, etc., and all this can be overlooked in the next life, this only means the world we live in is already perfect and working exactly the way he wanted it. It's perfect. There is no corruption, we never lost Eden in the first place. There is no fixing this world because God created it to not be fixed; it was carefully designed for man to ''sin'', and he knew that, and yet he created it.
Or is there a cosmic reason beyond my comprehension for God to allow this?And no, "free will" is not a real answer.

The way that it works is that the suffering is the result of disconnection from God. Once you get to the 3D plane you're already quite far disconnected from God and therefore you have more suffering on this plane than other things.

>>40959911 (OP)
Good job, you believe in God yet you're being honest with yourself.
That's how you find the truth.
Keep digging, it's there.
i did it too

>>40959937
God's omnipresent so this isn't true.

>>40959963
Well if you believe that, then your God is the demiurge. Your God is evil. He is omnipresent so he inhabits all suffering, war, death, decay, disease, has the ability to end it all but does not. Thankfully, thats not the way it really is. Thankfully thats just your demonic christian demiurge conception of God which is totally wrong

>>40959987
It's just a puzzle but it is solvable.
Most people never will though.

>>40960012
No. Its not a puzzle. You are a retard. To retards, tying shoes seems like a puzzle even though its not one.

>>40960023
lol good luck *closes tab*

>>40960028
Oh shit, you closed the tab, I got owned.

Anyway, what we have in this thread is another example of how christian eschatology makes no sense. But Jewish eschatology does.

>>40959959
I'm starting to think there is no other way to know the answer before rejecting everything I know(or think I know) about God first.

Not really understanding why I'm paying for others' mistakes

Anyway, what we have in this thread is another example of how christian eschatology makes no sense but Jewish eschatology does.

>Or is there a cosmic reason beyond my comprehension for God to allow this?

Well, yes. I am horribly over-simplifying, so if someone else (Maybe Cogitator or ChatTDG, or will pop in here, or the person posting with all the graph paper drawings, or affectionately, some of the other oldfags.) has the energy currently to go into more detail, please do.
If you broaden your view outside of God, and observe other religions, cultures or civilizations, spiritual paths, souls, astrology, consciousness, and so on, but you remove a lot of the names of deities, the storytelling fluff, and any bias, you will realize that a lot of the overall messaging between them all follows a very similar tune about one's relationship with the self, and reconnecting with your unobstructed consciousness, and you shape the universe around you. We all do, collectively, because we all contribute to the energy fields around us. Our perceived reality is essentially a dumbed down version of 'true reality' in the form of the most probable outcome based on the dominant resonance in the energy, and then is in the limited by one's connection to the self or consciousness.
Negative dominant energy = negative dominant perceived reality and so on.
Shaping a 'positive' or 'negative' reality is possible. I'm sorry to say, that does still have at least a tiny bit to do with free will. Like I said, horribly oversimplified, but. Given this is 4chan, I won't be surprised if I get called names lol.

>>40959911 (OP)
how about this?

what if god is beyond good and evil? what if instead of calling him god, we call him the creator. at least with that, we are more specific. there are false gods between us and that ultimate creator, and certainly the possibility that we are created by a lesser god than the ultimate creator. that god, the lesser one, or even just a more advanced non-god life form which hypothetically uplifted us from our primitive state... would be susceptible to both good and evil.

thoughts to try out

1- consider that holy, good, and evil are all different things.
2- consider that if free will is to be given to us, it must follow that we are allowed to freely choose corruption and evil as much as we can choose to be good.

it may be more accurate to say that the creator is holy and above good and evil might be a good thinking path for you. thinking along sloppy lines and definitions leads to problems. also read picrel. he approaches it from a pseudo-christian perspective, but it is still all very sound and good work. biblical Leviathan also mentions god is above good and evil.

>>40960041
I thought you "closed the tab" lol loser.

>>40960053
specifically

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Problem_of_Pain#Human_Pain

>>40960063
>>40960041
OP just face it, you have a fucking retards Christian view of God and thats whats making your entire worldview about spirituality all slanted and fucked up. You believe God is everywhere and that he tortures people for eternity in hell. These both are uniquely Christian concepts. These concepts dont exist in Judaism or any other world religion that is not connected to christ. Pull your head out of Christs human ass and stop propelling yourself further into confusion with moron dumbassery christian assumptions.

>>40960074
>>40960063
>>40960041
And furthermore if you have these views, then guess what? The only way to make them make sense is with an explanation that God is evil. Thus why Christians fall to gnosticism. Thus why gnosticism is basically the final redpill of Christianity. The inner teaching. Because the Christian conception of God is such that there is no other way to connect the dots other than to say "well, this dude is evil." Now I've tried to explain on 4chan in the past about how Christianity is a demon religion designed to inevitably lead souls towards satanism. That doesn't sell well on /x/ especially when the religion without Christ is Judaism. But reality is that anyone who practices occultism for long enough eventually learns Judaism is the real religion

OP is absolutely seething BTW. I know because I am psychic. He is like "hurrrrrr, Y did this guy have to come in to my thread and have actual answers for my question, when in reality I wanted to pose them in order to push my antireligious political agenda."

>>40960053
So If i have something so called free will, why i am denied choice to not exist?
Ive never asked for this shit.

>>40960049
Im kinda dumb but that means that our world and the spiritual world and everything bellow is actually horizontal and not vertical? I mean, something like social classes were the rich and poor can interact but they were in different plans of existence together with us but we just cant see it?
>>40960053
>>40960074
I'm considering doing that. I'm struggling with Christianity because I just can't get into its spirituality. I've tried to convince myself that it's because I "don't love other people," and every time I tried to talk about it with some Catholic friends, they just said I will go to hell for thinking like this. I believe in Christ, but I don't call myself a Christian anymore because I can't say I really follow him if all I do is not live a Christian life. But what is keeping me from not believing in God is because I felt the effects of evil spirits in my life, but since I started with Catholicism, it intensified greatly, and I don't know how to keep up with it. The entire religion revolves around hell, hell, people will rot in hell, saints (80% women) telling about visions of hell, and that you need to do all those rituals and prayers to be forgiven (but in the end there is no way to know). Not that I'm against the rituals, but a great part of them (which I know) had affairs, confessed (or prayed to God,, the evangelic ones), and thought it was all okay and then committed the same thing again. Like, hell and sin are supposed to be the most evil things ever, but then, nah, it's fine, just ask for forgiveness. What the fuck does God think I am, a massive retard for him to toy with? (Well, in fact I am since he is God and I am dust lol). I feel more at ease with atheists and gnostics than with other Christians heh.

>>40960201
Christ was a human being. Probably a demonic sorcerer. Christianity is anti-spirituality where you're just worshipping some random dude. He pooped. He peed. He cummed. He masturbated. He probably had gay pedophilia relations with the apostles whom he wandered the desert with for years, whom most scholars tend to believe were underage. This is not someone anyone should be worshipping as a god.

>>40960197
>Ive never asked for this shit
full on ditto with a capital F with you on that one.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Lethe

>In Orphism, a Greek mystical religious movement, it was believed that the newly dead who drank from the River Lethe would lose all memory of their past existence. The initiated were taught to seek instead the river of memory, Mnemosyne, thus securing the end of the transmigration of the soul.

it is my speculation that we were fed some Lethe water to forget why we came here. towards your question about a choice to not exist, I doubt that we are even able to not exist. there are a few entities who may be able to answer your question

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaddon

the kikes stole and subverted him into their religion during the koine greek period of collapse. in not so many words, Abaddon is the last entity you will ever meet before you are completely annihilated and removed from existence. he is, for lack of a better phrase, the entity tasked with final destruction of a soul. it is my understanding that he takes his orders directly from the creator and even the devil hates him out of jealousy. he can probably answer your questions, or at least help you get where you want to go.

as psyhopomps go, he is lame. for me, its Charon. beats the shit out of people, loads them onto a boat, a sails them off to the underworld. he never asked for this shit either, but he is making the best of it for himself.

>>40960201
you'll find CS Lewis to be one of those christians that you enjoy having around and are glad to know and read him. man was friends with Tolkien, so take that.

also, his books Problem of Pain and the follow up where he talks about the death of his wife are maybe a small fraction influenced by his christianity. sure, he mentions often different christian doctrines and beliefs, but he puts extra effort into secularizing those into objective and universal philosophical truths. he is, as I see him, the kind of christian who would never push you into it, always have interesting and sophisticated thoughts on pain and other paradoxes, and if nothing else, make the time we have here of being lost a little more thoughtful...

maybe even perpare us for the next place, whatever and wherever that is. you aren't going to be overflowing with happiness so much that a rainbow pops out of your chest, but your mind will have a lot of food to think about over the next few months while you mentally digest it.

>>40960201
You're not dumb, it's a lot to think about. You're kind of on the right track. Vertical, horizonal, diagonal, and everything in between. The best analogy I know of is that it's the equivalent 'structure' of a hologram. But yeah, coexisting within the same plane and we just don't see or realize it is a pretty good introductory understanding to the topic. Instead of rich and poor, think of it in terms of deities, beings, spirits, and even alternate versions of yourself.
Should you take a serious look beyond just your idea of God, just keep an open mind that several things that can be true at the same time, and that one thing being true doesn't necessarily invalidate other things.

>>40960215

>le demon poster

>>40960053

>what if god is beyond good and evil?

Here is a skitzo thought for you: Look at a triangle; the left and right(evil and good) are at the bottom, while the center(neutral) is at the top.

>>40960237
>we were fed some Lethe water to forget why we came here
this is possible. I've pondered this question too, over and over, why the apple, why the gnosis, why the punishment of banishment for knowing? what was done behind our backs in the unseen places that living thoughts dwell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrmCT9jYiKk

>>40960361
sure, yeah, thats pretty cool. we are at variance towards whether or not neutral is the correct word. precision is important in philosophy, and I don't think that being above good and evil makes you neutral. neutral, good, and evil are all along a spectrum, or as in your diagram, part of a shape. holy is not on a spectrum, diagram, part of a shape, or probably even depictable.

in any case, I'm all about your triangle. at some point though, taking into account all the mental states, thoughts, actions, and emotions of an entity would make a very messy and scattered diagram, along with a probably crowded spectrum.

it doesn't seem to me that holiness would even be comparable to good and evil.

>>40959911 (OP)
The material world didn't really change. It was the consciousness of humanity that changed. Eventually that consciousness descended into a state where there was a duality between existence and the self consciousness of humanity, and from that perspective were able to damage the existence by causing suffering to such an extent that attempts to recreate the bridge between the two is fraught with peril. Then everyone forgot so far for so many thousands of years, that its very difficult to repair to breach on a collective scale. Its so vast though, that mass collective action would be needed to meaningfully address the issue. Then the problem is, how can you convince people that such a thing is even possible, when they won't even believe that an individual can breach the gap, and always diminish and minimize the fact that such an existence, or realm of consciousness, is even possible.

>>40960324
I am pretty sure you guys just speak in non sequiturs like this when you get buttmad without any other real response.

ehehe ooops

don't tell the abrahamics though

>>40960403
for me, its all about those divine sparks. I suspect that we are all equal, and by that I mean in the shrek sense. those gnostic, those clumsy fucks, were right about at least that. in this view, every angel, demon, human, ayylmao, whatever are all, at some point down, created from an identical unit. Orson Card wrote about them as the "aiua" in Speaker For the Dead, a sort of fundamental, indivisible, indestructible, smallest unit of a soul. the intangible part of us which flits around existence for eternity. and there is the crux. suppose we consider old scratch, the debbil. even he, like us, has at the bottom of his shrek onion layers, the same as us. we are smaller, younger, have less experience, less knowledge, all that stuff. but, still, we are the same at that level, but not the levels "up" from that.

where I am going with this is that, for me, the concept the gnostics have of us being isolated from the pleroma or totality of existence is unforgivably wrong. seeing us here, as we are, they are complicit in our imprisonment. and thats a big fucking problem, because it leaves open the possibility that we are forced to live like this to their advantage. these thoughts follow down the path of the loosh trend lately, but the idea is an old one. I suspect that we were like them once.

we lived for an eternity before this life, an eternity after, and we are made of the same fundamental "stuff" as all these material and immaterial entities leads me to believe our existence is a result of their actions. I doubt we will all get our turn at being whatever we want in the eternity of existence, this stupid fucking stage we all live on and dance all fucking day.

just sing and dance for the creator you stupid fucking meatbags. get your salvation, transcend, and start dancing and singing in the next place you fucking idiots. I suspect that is the policy.

>>40960437
>I suspect that we are all equal
>gnostic view

that's completely wrong though

some people are soulless and just trick you to participate/attach to the material world. the enduring NPC meme is a testament to this

>>40960419

While I agree with not worshipping Jesus, the rest of your post is obviously demonic.

>>40960444
>some people are soulless
we have common ground there, but I don't see how that negates the concept that our anima, the driving force of all things, exists in us as it exists in other entities. what I am describing is the most minimal, fundamental, motivating force. something akin to Arty Schopenhauer's will to live. towards the NPCs, they are just meatbag biorobots. they might have a small soul, or maybe it is encrusted in some sort of spiritual junk, preventing it from fully interacting with its body and environment.

besides, in my completely hypothetical view, aiua is to soul as atom is to molecule. the aiua, those tiny fundamental soul elements described by Orson Card, combine to form the soul layer, spirit layer, and however many other layers "down" there are, and probably layers "up" too.

either way, it could be an issue of the NPCs just not knowing they have one. who knows. fuck 'em, they are on their own path anyway.

>>40959911 (OP)
Why do you think the world is rotting away?

>>40960405

You have a point about the flaw of the triangle model. But take also this: there are 2 neutrals; mixed and true/pure.

Mixed is a equal mix of good and evil, and falls in the middle of the spectrum as you said, while true/pure is its own thing off in the corner.

Basically, bad=black, good=white, mixed neutral=gray, true/pure neutral=purple

>>40960515
>there are 2 neutrals
love it. neutral involved, neutral uninvolved.

is your purple choice based on a subconscious understanding that royalty and rulers preferred purple for the same reason you say? a truly neutral, objective, fair, and parsimonious representation of their supposed good nature.

this seems like an exercise in permutations.

>>40960053
>After his illustration, Lewis says, "the act of self-will on the part of the creature, which constitutes an utter falseness to its creaturely position, is the only sin that can be conceived as the Fall". God then began "ruling" Man not by the laws of the spirit but by the laws of nature.

This is really fascinating. The fruit itself was not the source of Adam’s downfall. The act of eating it was, because it reflected his desire to become like God. As a priest, Adam’s role was to guard the world and consecrate it to God. Instead, he consecrated it in his own human image, and the material world rejected him. Satan, by his own choice, condemned himself to hell and refused mercy. Perhaps God’s concern was that Adam, recognizing his own position, might do the same.

In a sense, the “deification without God” that Crowley described is nothing more than the soul trapped in the ego forever. Yet, as long as a person still desires to be with the Creator and has truly repented, salvation may remain possible even beyond death. Such a soul would still face immense penitence, far greater than anything we endure on earth, but redemption would not be out of reach.

What I still struggle to understand is why the Fall had to be so devastating, why neither Adam nor his descendants could repair it, and whether a less brutal solution to the human condition was ever possible. Even God Himself had to be crucified to set things right. If that was the chosen way, then it must hold a deeper necessity. Perhaps, in the end, death is only a kind of dream, and all the sufferings and pleasures of the flesh, all notions of good and evil, are nothing more than distractions.

>>40960628
keep in mind that a completely distinct religious axiom formed many of those ancient belief systems. that axiom is gone now, or at least not one of the dominant religious axioms.

what I am describing is how there are 2 religious possibilities on this topic- either we fell from a place of high refinement and goodness into our current state, or, we started off in a primal state and have constantly refined ourselves ever onward and upward.

those two have always been at odds, and the religions using the "getting better always" feel that god created us that way to improve ourselves, learn about his creation, and be his humble servants. it created societies with people of high agency and self-directed, obviously not what our modern world is. the jews, and this is fact, purposely subverted that to destroy the followers of those religions by also inverting it. a (((religion))) which preaches our filth from birth and imperative to return to our good state of existence creates a culture of NPCs.

the thing is, its both. we started off simple, refined ourselves, built a perfect world, had it running, and the jews destroyed it. that was the late bronze age collapse, and now we are living in the kike world where we are told that we are born as a piece of shit like them.

>>40959911 (OP)
Explain divine spark consciousness without coming to the conclusion that the introduction of agents flies in the face of a completely controlled simulation that was orderly before even when nothing became something

>>40960559

>is your purple choice based on a subconscious understanding that royalty and rulers preferred purple for the same reason you say?

Kinda yeah, I used it because it is associated with supernaturalness and otherness.

>>40960197
>So If i have something so called free will, why i am denied choice to not exist?
You aren't . You can kill yourself.
>Ive never asked for this shit.
You did . Your soul agreed to reincarnate in this 3D Dimension and Time to help us to return back to the Love and Light.
Wake up.

>>40960237
>we were fed some Lethe water to forget why we came here
There's a Law of Confusion.
All souls reincarnating here agree to forget all previous reincarnations.
Usually some children until maybe age of 5 remember , they fly in their dreams and remember previous reincarnations.
Then if their parents don't specifically develop that or even worse, tell them that those are fantasies that don't exist, they forget.

>>40959911 (OP)
Anon, the planet has been always controlled by the forces of Love and Light.
However, we had a number of planetary catastrophes, after which we had one of those periods where forces of Love and Light were not fully in control,
due to Law of Confusion, and Law of Free Will.
Due to those laws it was decided, lets check out what happens if we let the planet develop itself for a few thousand years.
Of course, the Satanists took over , killed all the emissaries of Love and Light, installed their Satan as the ruller, and made this planet near hell.
These Satanic entities proceeded to start world wars, installed financial slavery system, killed everybody who was showing any light, burned libraries of books etc.

We know that letting this planet be by itself without a control of Love and Light agents was a mistake.
So, as a result, YOU and thousands of ancient souls with thousands of reincarnations, have agreed to Reincarnate here at this Time to be the warriors and beacons of Love and Light.

if you are here and asking those questions - you are one of those brave souls.
Pls wake up, understand that you are ALL POWERFUL being of Love and Light , that is eternal.
And start shining your bright light to others .

Thank you , all for being the brave souls .

>>40961567
why such a favorable and generous view of love and light?

>strip our minds of memories between lives
>wrap us in a world of lies and filth
>deny us the truth of our existence
>create laws to hinder our dignified existence while allowing unforgivable behavior to be done to us
>when we fight to defend ourselves, a catastrophe is sent

and we are supposed to have some respect for the forces of love and light? fuckem and the edgy dark force faggots too. this is all the work of their hands and we suffer while they watch and exist in bliss. fuckem. all of them. why? because they know that if we ever got on our feet and operate as peers to them, then we start asking them questions like "why didn't you come to our aid when it would cost you so little?" or "why have you not fought for yourself, forcing us to do it on your behalf?"

then we find out that the shit situation we are in as a planet, people, spirit group, soul cluster or whatever is just as much the evils being done to us as the good and holy things refusing to join in our fight. one love? bullshit. they are worse than evil. they teach letting your children and loved ones to be mangled, murdered, tortured, and beaten, among other things, all while playing nice, not fighting back, and offering peace and love to the enemy.

spineless, fickle, and cowardly, all these spirits "higher" than us.

>>40959911 (OP)
Your leaders are literally child sacrificing pedophile rapist cannibals and you really believe everything is perfect.
With slaves like you who cares if they say the truth in your face. You'll just rationalize it away as Love and Light and Earth is a school.
But not everyone wants to be a mindless slave like you.

>>40962186
If all evil need is good people to do nothing, Evil exist because God is doing nothing? Ok there are people who fight back(or at least try) but the effort they have to make is far greater than that of the forces of evil, who constantly have support from dark principalities.