Thread 224017

/HEMA/ General - Hungarian Shield Edition

>What is HEMA?
HEMA stands for Historical European Martial Arts, sometimes also called Historical Fencing.
It's reconstructing how to fight with swords, daggers, polearms, and other weapons based on old European fighting treatises

>What does it look like?
Inside the World of Longsword Fighting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zueF4Mu2uM
Back to the source - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DBmNVHTmNs
Martin Fabian Sparring - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8QlbKfX84k

>Where can I find these treatises?
https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Main_Page
https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Category:Weapons

>Where can I find HEMA clubs near me?
https://www.hemaalliance.com/club-finders
https://hroarr.com/train/clubs-gear/club-finder/
https://ifhema.com/ifhema-members/

Previous: >>207322

If you have the time it's worth watching the whole series, it goes in-depth on what was learned from the modern longsword community.

>Instructor couldn't make practice
>tells me last minute
>asks me to run the practice since I'm the second most experienced after him
>just do drills and forms
>no one has the gear to spar yet cept me anyway
I'm sorry class. I barely knew what I was doing. I really need to work on the names of the guards and cuts as I'm flowing through them. God I was awkward.

>>224411
Don't sweat it Anon, class would've been canceled if you hadn't stepped in. If they complain they can suck it. Good job.

>>224128
What did he mean by this?

What are the advantages of Italian longsword over German? What about German over Italian

>>225318
The advantage of German is that it looks rad as fuck. The advantage of Italian is that it works.

>>225333
Greasy hands typed this post

>>225318
I'm just a faggot on a Mongolian basket weaving forum, but German is has a lot of good fundamentals and simple actions to get the job done. Italian has some complex devices or moves that are very effective but are reactionary to your opponent. Im not versed too much in Italian but that's the impression I get from the videos and readings I've done.

Longsword, Rapier and Dagger, or Saber?

>>225406
Sidesword. Choppy boi like a saber, stabby like a rapier, footwork of a longsword and all the rapier's good looks on top of that.

>>225406
Sidesword and Buckler. Don't be like Ricky Bobby over here >>225434 who doesn't know what to do with his offhand

>check out local club
>nice and affordable, no elitist bullshit
>practices are relaxed, good mix of athletes and nonathletes
>then sparring happens
>every single fucking match is feathertouch handsnipe bullshit
>guys are just whipping it at their opponent's hand really quick and insisting they scored
What the fuck is the point
>if the hand was the only target I had IRL, I'd go for it
so you do all this practice with form, technique and bladeplay, only for your actual matches to devolve into smack the hand from as far away as possible? Seriously? the IRL excuse is bullshit too, because these guys are wearing plastic gauntlets so a feather strike wouldn't do shit

>>225713
Hand strikes were very common and effective historically, so their prevalence in HEMA makes sense. Most HEMA clubs are representing unarmored fighting, so it wouldn't take much to damage the hand with that abstraction in mind. The gauntlets are a concession to safety and you're supposed to pretend they're not there.

Having said all that, what makes hand strikes effective is also the reason why there's an overreliance on them. They're (usually) the closest or only available target when you're at the maximum possible range where you can still hit them. People like to dance around on the outside and hit hands because it's safe and non-committal.

>>225713
>the IRL excuse is bullshit too, because these guys are wearing plastic gauntlets so a feather strike wouldn't do shit
I mean, the way virtually everyone does HEMA we wear protectors so we don't actually get injured, but hits are counted as if completely unarmored. This particular thing isn't anything exceptional your dudes are doing.

Nothing but hand sniping is for gayfags, though. Fortunately for you, it's also easy to take advantage of when people do it predictably so as long as you stick to your technique lessons you'll eventually figure how to parry or strike out this faggotry and use it to beat them with blows to deep targets.

>>225750
Fucking this. Learn to punish hand snipes like you punish the scholars mate. Watch them mald as you actually form strategies instead of
>going for the fingies
every time.

So other than drills, what other workouts do you do for Hema? I picked up some weighted clubs and a mace for shoulder exercises. Shit feels good for a warmup and a break in the drills.

>>225334
greasy hands wrapped around your neck

>>225713
Hand strikes are legit, can't fight with a chopped hand, git gud scrub, meet me outside Bologna.

>>225988
Reminder that any Fiorist who goes "well in the street I would just choke/joint lock you" would get murdered in a grappling match against any wrestler/judoka/bjj person.

>>225988
>greasy hands wrapped around your neck
Harder, daddy

>>225989
>t. Manciolino literally

>>226002
Mama mia why a-German gotta be so a-horny
>>226000
As far as I know the most complete versions of medieval wrestling are Ringen-style, right? Ott? I've never read any...I like BJJ but as with all things HEMA if I wanted to do the Japanese version I wouldn't be here in the first place.

I think I could trick some of my fellow sweaty man-huggers into trying it after class as long as I had some plays to work with but I just don't know where to start.

>>226018
>As far as I know the most complete versions of medieval wrestling are Ringen-style, right? Ott?
Thats correct, der Ringen des Ott Jud (literally The Grappling of Otto the Jew) was considered good enough that it was attached to several Liechtenauer lineage fencing treatises as the "wrestling portion". They apparently didn't see any point in trying to improve on it.

>>226018
>thing, Japan
:/
>thing, western Europe
:O

>>226026
This but unironically

>>226025
>literally The Grappling of Otto the Jew
(((Grappling)))

>>225713
If they're doing a point system, go for chest/head afterblows/doubles and win on points.

Also learn to protect yourself from handsnipes.

From the tryhard hema group. I can't believe they shitpost more than we do.

>>226026
>t. seething zip

Everyone must be actually training and going to tourneys. Proud of you faggots

Any of you guys do Harnischfechten?

>>227411
I can, but the group I'm in just don't practice it that much. Especially when 4 guys have to sit out since they haven't got the equipment. My group almost has every athletic body type and sharing shit just doesn't work.

>>227411
I got a group that i practice with weekly. Shit hurts my back tho i reckon my leg armor is pulling on my back strangely
>>227486
Helmet, breastplate, gauntlets is really all you need to get people started, and those are pretty universal. If you can get them hooked they can start buying their own shit. Mild steel is nice for how easy it is to modify to fit each individual and it works so long as you aren't planning on trying buhurt.

>>227411
For my part no, it's just too much expense for a 4000% increase in autism. It's probably just a local issue but around here the harnisch guys seem to be without fail the most autismal knight fantasy having neckbeards and even if I didn't mind being lumped in with them by others I still wouldn't want to deal with that to train a specific niche thing.

>>227560
I'm not building harness for people who won't get mask and gloves. We just coordinate after practice to harness up and fight then.

>>227685
Right i wasn't trying to suggest you buy harness for them, more that if you have a club its nice to have loaner gear around to give newbies a taste of fighting in armor. Sometimes they like it enough to go and start building their own kit

>>224017 (OP)
Hot take. I actually enjoy HEMA and practicing it.

>>227727
Get out of here, you sick freak.

are there any standardized or semi standardized rules for equipment in tournaments? I want to customize some of my feders

>>224017 (OP)
>leave another practice sessions with broken bones in my fingers
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, surely my bones will get stronger at some point and stop this inconvenience from happening

>>228191
Get better gloves.

>>228191
What the fuck kind of niggers are you fencing with that this has happened to you more than once? This literally has not occurred once in the last 6-8 years in my club, not since people put their fucking Red Dragons away for steel.

>>228205
Stop blaming club members when safety is the responsibility of the individual fighter.
>>228192
What this guy said, get better gloves. If you're using the Vader gloves or red dragons you've had it coming.

>>228253
>it is absolutely impossible to be a faggot who hits too hard
Found the autist who can't control his own limbs.

>>225713
I don't even practice weapon martial arts and I'm shook you don't see the value of disarming

>>228275
>Get hurt the first time
Hey don't hit him so damn hard
>Gets hurt again, same place
Where are those gloves made again?
If you keep going to practice and getting hurt, you gotta be mindful of what you're doing. Blaming others doesn't improve yourself.

>>224017 (OP)
Whats a decent cheap sword I can buy that'll take abuse

https://www.woodenswords.com/product_p/vb.as.16.pear.htm
I use this. Holds up well.

>>228370
Shite
>>228359

>>228359
What kind of sword is it you need? Longsword? Rapier? Saber? Sidesword? Some other shit?

>>227741
boomp

>>228431
>two weeks
>no answer

>>228571
You do realize that the site went down from the 14th to today at noon. He probably doesn't know the 4chan is finally back.

>>228595
That was the joke, yes. Well done limboing your head under it.

Sup faggots did any of you train or go to a tourney during the 14 day ban?

>>228766
No tourneys around here during the ban but I trained as usual, of course.

>>228205
happens almost every single week

>>228766
I wish.
>club I liked stopped holding practice because little attendance and doesn't want to do it in a public park
>active clubs are full of fatties and spergs that use it to up their light saber cosplay game
>training solo is for gays

>>229397
Sounds like you keep gatekeeping yourself. Stop being a sperg and go train.

bong here, any of you ever been to the club in oxford? would you recommend it?

>>229418
Live reply from London HEMA Open: which one, Sword & Staff or the SotS? SotS is full of incompetent speds and the instructor is living cancer. Sword & Staff seems better but I don't know much about them except that they're Meyeroids which can be good or bad depending on what you like.

>>229473
sword and staff, although at least now i know to avoid the other one- thanks! i'm mainly looking for something to keep active beyond just going to the gym and sword fighting's cool. ideally i'd like something that's reasonably sparring-heavy - i've been looking at the local kendo club too, the fact that these guys are looking to introduce wrestling as well sounds fun though

>no HEMA where I live
>no friends

What are the chances a schizoid loser can find people to start a group with in a town with population below 10k?

>>227727
Yes.

>>224017 (OP)
>>224019
I think arm shields are pretty neat.

Any else have the issue of the only clubs near you being super pozzed? I'm moving to a new city next year and it all the clubs have their leadership's pronouns and there's visibly a lot of trannies and whatnot in the promotional photos.

>>229816
Go and mog the betas. I travel down to the Portland area and just fence and train. Either they take the hint that you don't fucking care about their religion and leave you alone about it, or they don't take your money. You're letting them gatekeep you via cringe or conflict adversity. Go and train.

>>226026
Yes.

>Tourney in Portland in July
>One handed weapons only
>no rapiers
>have to hold a mug or glass of "water" in your offhand and fight
>usual rules of hits and bouts
>Lose points for having less liquid in your cup than your opponent
What the larp shit is this?

>>229620
According to my friend who practices HEMA, a sword autist who practices in front of a mirror could beat the bottom 25% of the HEMA community. Let's see how I do.

>>230408
Americans.

>>230478
Worse, sounds like Americans who wanna larp as a Scot. Where's my longbow?

>>230506
>Americans who wanna larp as a Scot
Why is this so common anyway? Why are the Yanquí so obsessed with pretending to be the niggers of Britain?

>guy keeps hitting too hard with follow ups even when they got 1-2 hits in already and I "give in"
should I just go ape shit on his ass and actually swing fast, hard and keep swinging until he screams for me to stop or is knocked down?
Because I'm tired of caring for their safety and leaving openings for him to exploit because of that.
Like holy shit, I'm approaching this as a "friendly spar" and you are taking opportunities to whallop me even if my position is compromised and I'm disengaging. Like what, you expect me to actually fight you seriously? Is that what you want twat?!

>>230578
Talk to the instructors about this cunt. They either already know about him, or they need to know.

>>230588
but anon.... they are the instructor....

>>230591
doubt.jpg

>>230593
what?? I just told you....

>>230591
Rape them and become the new leader of the club.

>>230553
They are embracing their ancestry. Some are connecting with Scots, Irish, English, German, Italian, etc.

>>230610
>They are embracing their ancestry
lmao

>>230610
That doesn't explain why Scotlarp is so much more common than e.g. Anglolarp or Froglarp, though.

>>230553
Scotlarp was the "my heritage is my personality" before vikingfags took it over.

>>230637
Weird you should say that, actual Scottish HEMA/reenactment scene is full of vikingfag larpers...

(Mind you there's loads of MUH BASKETHILT as well, but that makes sense in a different way in Dundee than in Arse End, Minnesota)

>>230620
>>230553
mayhaps because Scotslarp has an ancient anglo history. The first real modern larp was probably victorians getting all romantical about anything scotish. Kilts, Claymores, etc. Even was popular in the content. Scotia romanticism was even popular in France and germany.

>>230653
the whole "Wild and Majestic" schtick.

btw, since im waiting for the base on my model to dry, and its on my mind, here is my c.1400 knight so far.

>>230655
Nice lad, what brand?

>>224017 (OP)
I’m interested in HEMA in general, but not really the fencing style rules for sparring matches that the sport centers on. Can anyone tell me about HMB? The big tournament was cancelled two years in a row from the coof, then again because of Ukraine, and it hasn’t been hosted again. I was trying to look up the sport and just find a local group to check out but I can’t really find anything current. Am I using incorrect search terms? Is HMB dead now?

>>230653
The word “romanticize” literally derives from the Renaissance when all of Europe became weebs for the Roman Empire and Ancient Greece.

>>230506
You know I never thought of it before, but why did the Scottish and Irish both take influence from heavily armored shield wall norseniggers and develop into big two handed sword galloglaiches when their biggest nearby enemies specialized in launching arrows at them?

>>230620
Braveheart stars the same guy as The Patriot.

>>229620
Fairly solid chance you'll find people who are at least interested, whether or not they'll commit is another question. Practice in front of a mirror like the other anon said, get some loaner gear, and put up advertisements in nerd and fitness spaces irl and online.

>>230659
sorry, got banned for a bit. Perry miniatures. (back line's not done)

>>230838
No worries, if you don't cop a ban now and then you know you're acting like a faggot. Nice minis too, thanks for the sauce.

>>230823
Thats why I said "modern" larp. Larp has always existed, just that scotlarp is a pretty foundational one for the modern larps.

Powerful

>>230844
There was a /pol/ thread about that yesterday >>>/pol/505161226

>>230844
I'm tired of these creatures infesting everything. My local club has at least 3. I need to start a club once I move because others in the sport refuse to gatekeep

>>230850
There was (at least) one today too and even the tranny board actually has a thread up seething about the damage it's doing to their image lmao

>>230863
Why are you so obsessed with trans women? Just come out of the closet already

>>230874
Not that Anon, but I want my wife to be able to fence and train with other women without perverted mentally ill men being permitted on the roster.

>>230874
>this same seething can'tmeme kept being reposted in the /pol/ thread
>the asshurt tranny found his way to /xs/

>>230875
It wasn't even worth your effort replying to that bait. You are correct, howestever. Women deserve their hobby space to be free of degenerates. I sympathize with them because I know what it's like to become so viscerally disgusted by the people around you that you just leave communities. It sucks, it makes you feel isolated, and the fact that if you try to gatekeep your own space you'll likely be brought up in a civil dispute or life ruination attempt is infuriating

>>230880
>It wasn't even worth your effort replying to that bait.
Bait isn't always bait for bait's sake, sometimes it's an Anon fishing for a new way to refute the clowns edging into his hobbies.
>if you try to gatekeep your own space you'll likely be brought up in a civil dispute
How does this work in the United States (and other jurisdictions)?

>>230911
>How does this work?
Wdym? The actual process or why they can do this?

>>230948
A bit of both but more the latter. What's the dynamic around gatekeeping and avoiding liability and frivolous suits?

>>230949
I don't know a lot about the legal process beyond the fact that somebody will deliver you a legal notice that you are being sued once the other party files the suit and that it's very expensive even if you win. As far as avoiding the liability and frivolous suits? Nothing, beyond the people you don't like being too poor or too stupid to sue you. America is set up to allow anybody to perpetrate lawfare, even if they have no money (in forma pauperis). Gatekeeping your own HEMA club would inevitably result in being blacklisted nationwide. The community is small and full of opinionated gossip cliques.

A Kendoka would absolutely destroy any HEMA fag in a real sword fight

>>231055
Having sparred with a few I've not been impressed with the versatility of kendoka outside of their format. I've also seen discussion about kendo training culture taking too long to let new students freely spar whereas HEMA sparring starts on day one, resulting in a practical skill gap between beginner and intermediate kendo and HEMA practitioners. Despite that it's still a cool sport with a cool history.

>>231055
Kendo practitioners can't even beat kenjutsu practitioners. LOL

Castille sale 15% off

Looking to buy my first set of gear and thinking of getting an AP Light from spes and pants, overlays, and the skirt from them as well with a mask from PBT.

Any insights on if I should consider/look at other gear, and if its worthwhile to purchase from purpleheart (I'm in the US) or directly from spes/PBT?

>>230911
weird seeing the club i go to posted here

>>232846
Why are you gay?

>>232850
honestly, it feels off going there as someone who's not a part of the rainbow mafia. i should probably start going more often to the other one club in town, but there's only like 4 people to fight there.

Anyone in Sydney?

>>232852
What's the skill level at Broken Plow like relative to you and relative to the gay club? How compatible are the schedules? Is the dynamic at Hilt and Helm practices as obnoxious as their web presence suggests?

>>232859
broken plow is a joke, they don't care at all. anyone with 3-6 months of *good* instruction can dumpster them. the gay club doesn't take it seriously much either but they're somewhat better than plow. i'm just a longsword bro so i only do longsword practices, and it's not so bad. some good, normal people there. waterfront hf cares about improving skill but there's way less people.

Yo, my trad archery club is hiring on a guy to teach historical hungarian sabre fencing, I'm trying to buy a sabre that's suitable for HEMA style sparring but also looks the part of a 9-10th century szablya so I can wear it to medieval fairs and stuff like that when we perform, anybody got reccomendations?
I figure ordering something online would be cheaper and I'm not looking for anything super sepcial but if not I could just go to a local bladesmith and place a custom order.

>>233216
I don't know exactly how a high medieval szablya looked, but probably your best bets would be the SIGI Basic (strong curve) or one of the Silkfencing models. SIGI has a better reputation for durability, I know people have said the Silkfencing ones easily come apart at the handle, but they might have fixed that by now since it's an oldish critique. Silkfencing sabres come with a scabbard IIRC, the SIGI one you'll have to have a scabbard made for separately by someone else, but it shouldn't be difficult, since the blade shape is very friendly to it.

>>233246
The problem with those is they look a little too modern, especially the big crossguard.
I'd need something more like this with the small cross and the more curvy handle.

>>233250
>>233246
Historical accuracy to the 9-10th century is somewhat kinda important since our club is supposed to be mainly geared towards that era.

>>233250
This doesn't look medieval at all though? That decoration looks super fucking 17th century if not later.

>>233250
>>233256
It's not exact but Silkfencing's "Eastern Sabre" gallery shows a hilt similar to this:
>https://www.silkfencing.shop.pl/eastern-sabre-p-13.html

There are a couple depictions in that gallery of nonstandard crossguards, so it looks like customs are a possibility. You could probably contact them and get them to make one more precisely in this style for you, if you send them some pics and so on. I don't think they would do this heavily decorated style, though, so you'll probably still have to settle to some extent.

>>233257
It's 9th century though.
>>233259
You're right, I think their Kilij design is at least hungarian inspired. I'll keep it in mind.

>>233257
These are designs based on conquest era relics they found in the graves of hungarian raiders, the very densely decorated sabres were a big status symbol, only the richest hungarians and avars had sabres at all so they got tacky with it, but most of them carried long handled tomahawk like axes called Fokos or more seax like blades, in the beginning of the 9th century it was actually more common for them to have double edged straight blades, but the szablya is the one that everyone remembers cause Árpád and his sons used them, they became more widespread in the 10th and 11th centuries.

>>226026
>thing, southern Europe
:OOOOOOOOO

What could possibly go wrong?

>>232850
I hope all fags and trannies in HEMA follow Charlotte's path.

It's sad that the hobby is so niche that clubs will always pander to trannies and their ilk to keep memberships and to avoid being blacklisted globally.

>>233322
>>233319
>>233259
>>233246
https://www.wulflund.com/weapons/swords/rapiers-sabres/hungarian-saber-karos-eperjeszog-x-century.html/?varianta=15619
I found this thing, looks simple but accurate enough and it's based on a sabre found in a 9th century grave.

>>232850
>>230911
Are all american HEMA clubs mega gay or something? Over here it's all old men with beer bellies larping as knights.

>>233585
There are a lot of gays, troons, etc. in the scene but Hilt & Helm is an overtly gay club for gays by gays and therefore fruitier than the average fencing club.
>old men with beer bellies larping as knights
We've got a bit of that, too, but a lot of those guys are in the SCA.

>>233585
Its more that there is significant overlap in their target audiences- male nerds

>>233575
I hope they get real help and then help protect other eccentric kids from making the same mistake. The first tranny I met was a kind and competent autistic woman from a martial arts club who started taking testosterone, chopped off her tits, and then killed herself. I used to train with another woman of the same description whose suicide attempts landed her in the hospital and whose continually spiraling physical and mental health drove her to extreme isolation. Two actually or borderline autistic men that I used to train with destroyed themselves with the gooner-to-troon pipeline. It's very sad and I'm very tired of watching good martial arts (and other) nerds fall victim to this self-destructive horseshit.

>>233590
What's SCA? Is that more larp focused or something? Over here most clubs are actually mainly larp and reenactment clubs so they do more ren fair performances then anything, they do learn and spar but they only occasionally enter buhurt of HEMA clubs, not that many clubs that are actually sport focused.
>>233591
I guess so, HEMA probably has a fairly similiar customer base to D&D.

>>233585
>>233590
if you just do longsword there it's roughly 2:1 straight guys to gays/ they/thems. sabre and other weapons is where they usually congregate

>>233602
SCA is mainly armored rattan combat supported by a broader historical recreation organization. It's been around since the 1960s so it's pretty established here with an early mover advantage:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCA_armoured_combat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Creative_Anachronism
They have their own version of historical fencing that evolved in parallel to mainstream HEMA fencing, though I've known a number of fencers to do both HEMA and SCA fencing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCA_Rapier_Combat

>>233528
Nothing did go wrong. Did you see who it was that got stabbed?

>>233584
I can almost guarantee that that sword isn't suitable for HEMA sparring.

>>233615
How come? It says combat on the blunt option.
I found a couple on VB swordshop is that better?
https://www.schwertschmiedeviktor.de/Honfoglalaskori-szablya-a-IX--XII--szazadbol

>>233629
That one's *better*, insofar as it doesn't look like it's just an unsharpened sharp, but it's still a reenactment sword as you can see in the description. Reenactment swords are too stiff and usually too heavy to use in HEMA. Berbekucz does make HEMA swords but they're in the section labeled HEMA. He does make a HEMA shaska so it's probably, again, possible to ask him to make you a custom HEMA farkas.

>>233635
I'll have to ask the instructor I think, because our club has a bit more focus on historical accuracy, I won't be training specifically to compete in HEMA but we'll be learning historical sabre fencing and sparring against each other, so I'll have to ask if a reenactment sword like this or a specific HEMA sabre would be preferable, thanks for the help though.

>>233594
This tranny shit is very bizarre. I never encountered any outside of HEMA, and now I've seen both MTF and FTM ones. Both are extremely off-putting, even if you put the uncanny valley effect aside: The MTFs are so obviously goonbrained pastiches, while the FTMs seem to think masculine = revolting, turning themselves into a walking rejection of sexuality, or even life and beauty itself. In either case it's bound to end in tragedy because they're up against reality and you can only delude yourself for so long.

The sheer amount of mindfucking that must happen to lead people on such a path is unimaginable to me. It's kinda sad that it's become so common for people to joke about their suicide rate because you're dealing with people who by all means should've turned out just fine, often people who are relatable to guys like us with the odd nerdy interest. Most of them have been indoctrinated or groomed into a suicide cult.

>>233695
>people who by all means should've turned out just fine
That's where you're wrong, all those people have serious mental illness. The girls trying to turn into men or some sort of sexless golem in particular are full of self hate and anxiety, they would never have come out alright from just being left alone by the troon groom squad. Their shit is fucked. Which isn't to say that you should just abandon them to the predators but like, 20 years ago they would all have been anorexics and cutters and shit, they need powerful psychiatric interventions.

>>233695
Autistic fixation, othering to escape trauma, and/or living out a porn fueled fetish seem to be the primary drivers with a very heavy social contagion element. HEMA can function as an escapist hobby with endless work for autists so it appeals to an overlapping set of people.

>>233699
>That's where you're wrong, all those people have serious mental illness
They do all have serious mental illnesses but transgenderism makes it worse because it promotes irreversible self-harm and a delusional world view.
>The girls trying to turn into men or some sort of sexless golem in particular are full of self hate and anxiety, they would never have come out alright from just being left alone by the troon groom squad.
Tomboys used to grow up into women, now they have a cult encouraging them to maim themselves and embrace insanity.
>20 years ago they would all have been anorexics and cutters and shit
Many still are. Trooning out can be an escalation of that self-harm. There are healthier outlets for self-harm impulses, such as intense exercise (doi.org/10.1024/2674-0052/a000088), which should be promoted over transgenderism. I would argue that even cutting and eating disorders are less harmful than transgenderism, although neither are desirable. Fencing could be very good therapy for these and other psychologically vulnerable populations if it weren't infested with predatory groomers.

>>233701
>They do all have serious mental illnesses but transgenderism makes it worse because it promotes irreversible self-harm and a delusional world view. (etcetera)
I'm not saying it's a good thing that they're trooning out. On the contrary. It's like you said, just a different, worse kind of self harm. I'm just pointing out that those people wouldn't have "turned out just fine" in the absence of this particular form of self-harm. They'd still have the same massive psychological issues and hurt themselves some other way.

>Tomboys used to grow up into women, now they have a cult encouraging them to maim themselves and embrace insanity.
IMO cutter-trooners aren't the same group of grills as tomboys. Tomboys are just like, sporty bitches, they don't have brutal self-hatred issues on top of liking to climb trees or whatever other boy shit. On the contrary, they typically seem unusually chill.

>>233709
>I'm just pointing out that those people wouldn't have "turned out just fine" in the absence of this particular form of self-harm. They'd still have the same massive psychological issues and hurt themselves some other way.
I largely agree, however the difference I was trying to highlight is that other forms of self harm are less likely to be a lifelong burden. Some people who troon out during a bad stage in life might have been fine in few years if they only developed an eating disorder, engaged in superficial cutting, or hit the gym uncommonly hard--behaviors that can possibly cause long term complications, to be sure, but with a lesser percent chance than hormonal and surgical alteration in service to transgender delusions.
>Tomboys are just like, sporty bitches, they don't have brutal self-hatred issues on top of liking to climb trees or whatever other boy shit. On the contrary, they typically seem unusually chill.
There are well-adjusted tomboys. There are also tomboys with loads of issues. A solid number of tomboys have trauma from mistreatment by their female peers for being abnormal or being too friendly with all of the boys and therefore seen as dangerous competition. One seemingly common archetype of FtM troon is a tomboy, often autistic, who grows up and doesn't like that her male peers no longer treat her like one of the boys and instead view her as a sexually mature woman. Rather than adjusting to this like tomboys past the transgender movement offers a twisted alternative.

I wonder if American HEMA would have an appreciable academic fencing subculture if all our troons were instead cutters.

>>224017 (OP)
Tell me about HEMA as a sport. What disciplines are more competitive? How athletic are people who do HEMA as a sport?

>>233817
Most competitive would be longsword as it has the most people. HEMA "athletes" aren't comparable to actual professionals as it's a grassroots thing and the talent pool is small.

>>233716
>>233701
I'm not convinced that the FTM thing targets tomboys, the ones I know all ended up well-adjusted. Same on the other end, the MTFs I know are all tall and would've been quite masculine if they didn't troon out. Actual small guys generally go full Napoleon Syndrome if they're insecure about their height/masculinity.

>>233817
>What disciplines are more competitive?
Longsword is the meme but your local scene may vary.
>How athletic are people who do HEMA as a sport?
This also varies locally, but in general if you approach HEMA as an athlete instead of a cosplayer you'll be on track to become a larger fish in a smaller pond. As the other Anon said, it's extremely rare to find anyone fencing at a "professional" athletic level and the talent pool is small.

>>233822
>I'm not convinced that the FTM thing targets tomboys
I've seen it happen first hand. I've talked to tomboys who shared how vulnerable they would have been to the movement if they had different peers during critical years. I've read corroborating anecdotes and observations online. I'm glad your tomboys are safe but it's a problem elsewhere. Tomboys are not the only victim demographic, non-tomboy autists and abuse victims are also prime targets.
>Actual small guys
Weirdly enough, the two males troons I mentioned in my other post were both shorter than average. I've seen tall MtF troons (first one I ever met in person was about 6'6"). I've not observed height to be a significant factor, main risk factors seem to be porn addiction/fetishism, trauma, and autism.
>would've been quite masculine if they didn't troon out
They were both pretty masculine before going down the autogynephilia rabbit hole.

>>233528
>>233891
RETVRN

Is there anything like the Battle of Nations style combat? I’m not into the fencing point touch shit and some of these combat re-enactor groups look like retarded with helmets that don’t restrict visibility and overly padded weapons. Meanwhile the battle of nations guys were dressed more accurately and were beating the absolute fuck out of each other.

>>233904
Buhurt is for retarded people who want to become even more retarded.

>>233904
I never did buhurt but I can tell I would destroy you based on the fact that you sound incredibly insecure and have a need to prove how much of a big boy macho you are.
1v1 me sharp rapier bro

>>233893
Imagine being this fat asshole, standing there and beginning to realize that you butthurt your way into a sharp duel with fuckin' Aldo Nadi, lmao

>>233939
Sorry if you took offense, it’s more my frustration with covid and jewkraine killing all the sports momentum. Looks like a group of a dozen guys in my county of 10m+ and I’d worry they wouldn’t be cool and then the next closest group is too far

>>233945
He loved it, he was a prolific duelist. He didn't stop provoking sport fencers into duels until Aldo's brother made a legitimate attempt to run him through. As luck (or possibly mercy and skill) would have it he struck the journalist's belt buckle, damaging his blade and scaring Cotronei away from dueling forever.

>>233904
>dressed more accurately
They're emulating different formats. BotN guys are emulating armored tournament fighting, fencing point touch shit is emulating dueling.
>>233990
>I’d worry they wouldn’t be cool
You won't know until you check it out.

>>234015
IDK Anon, Aldo's account of the duel definitely suggests Cotronei was sweating bullets toward the end and gave up because he could tell Nadi was a second away from just spiking him.

>>234039
That's fair, I had forgotten about that. I was more thinking about the fact that he kept dueling.

>>226058
Literally Jew Jitsu

Be honest. How many of you are fat? How many people in your local club are fat?

>>234879
I'm not fat. We got one fatty who's shedding the pounds since became a postman with a walking route

>>234879
Personally I'm overweight but not fat, and there aren't more than 1-2 obeasts in my club. The other club in my town though, hoo boy. Tubbos from one end of the hall to the other.

still not posting on xtra smoll.

>>224128
>>224431
>What did he mean by this?
We may never know.

I'm thinking of getting into HEMA anons, is there something I should know before I take the plunge?

>>235923
Depending on where you live, clubs will vary from absolute dogshit larpers and dejected autistic mof nerds who couldn't make it, to very rarely actually quite decent.

Stay away from the hema discord, it's 100% populated with the first two.

>>235969
>dejected autistic mof nerds who couldn't make it
Literally the worst fucking scourge of the HEMA community. They somehow outdo the larpers, the fatties and the trannies all put together. If I have to listen to one more loser who couldn't even rate D explain to me why epee footwork is totally historically valid longsword footwork and so he shouldn't have to learn any historical European martial arts I'm going to reenact Falling Down.

>>235923
It's worth it but as other anons said, be prepared for really insufferable people. Financials wise the initial investment to see if you like it is low if the club loans you stuff, but if you do continue then the gear and sword(s) will wind up costing a bunch (£1000+). My local club gives unspoken discount to poorfags but gear will cost a shit so consider that

>>233585
Yes and i think it's specifically because of "Nazigate" where some Swede clubs were unapologetically ethnocentric.
How do we get American HEMA to stop being so gay?

>>233585
>Are all american HEMA clubs mega gay or something?
>>238646
>How do we get American HEMA to stop being so gay?
We can't get the normal people in the US to care about medieval swordplay because by the time our country was founded, that kind of swordplay was already gone from mainstream use. In Europe there are normal people trying to preserve their history, while in the US the only people trying HEMA are the autists and dorks. No offense to anyone here; I'm also sort of a dork.

>>238659
I know Americans aren't European but we're still European diaspora and should at least try to reconnect with our roots in ways that matter. Unfortunately American HEMA is just the most petty pseudoscholars forming cliques and eating themselves.

>>238687
>I know Americans aren't European but we're still European diaspora and should at least try to reconnect with our roots in ways that matter.
Of course, that's the exact dork justification I gave myself, but let's be honest, the HEMA clubs (and the fencing clubs) attract more book nerds than athletes or casuals because the athletes are attracted to different sports and the casuals prefer swimming, hiking, cycling, etc.

>>238659
It's hard to be sure without personal appearance, but from over here in Europe it seems like American nerds are just worse on every level, like Comic Book Guy caricatures only with blue hair now as well. We don't really have that here, rather a guy might be into One Piece or whatever but also play football and then finds out you can do historical fencing, etc etc.

I'm not saying we don't have those full on grotesque nerds at all of course but they're much rarer here than they seem to be there, even normal dorks kinda ostracize them.

>>238721
>personal appearance
Fucking autocorrect, meant to say personal experience.

>>238721
>American nerds are just worse on every level
Yes, that is what the other guy and I are saying. Personally I blame parenting; for too long my country has had this nanny state, overprotective, helicopter parenting style that fucks up the youth's development.

I remember a decade ago universities were complaining that they kept having to trespass parents for trying to get their sons'/daughters' grades without the adult offsprings' permission. The parents couldn't let their children go even at age 18-24.

Need to sell some of my blackfencer synthetics to get some medical funds, how's the secondhand market for them? I don't have anything exotic just the arming swords, katana and a feder.

To start, thank you for all the resources posted, just joined a club and halfway through my beginners course and intend to stick with it and pursue training, even though I'm old as fuck at 32.

However, given the mentions of trannies in HEMA, holy shit, I have stories. I should have expected troons and poons given my area and the fucking trend of trans people ruining everything and the doughy nerd attraction to swords, but I digress. I encountered my first one before I even started the class. Almost had to cancel due to financial difficulties that came up, but the main coach was a fucking bro and gave me 6 classes for free. Would have to purchase my own helmet eventually but could borrow a loaner.

I went in to cancel, and met a female instructor teaching a women and "gender minorities" class. I didn't factor in the possibility of troons, but as soon as I saw one fucking 60 ft away I clocked them immediately. While the women wore leggings and t-shirts, looney troon was wearing booty shorts and a pink tank top. Cancelled my class, but on the way out I saw his shirt: it said "Hole." Literally said "Hole." Later found out it's apparently a band, so either tranny knows what he's doing and is a creepy fuck (likely), or is a completely unaware autist. Gave me a creepy smile on the way out, the AGP smirk is real.

My fucking first class was hysterical though. Get there early to warm up, stretch, observe, whatever. There is a kid's class before mine though. Come in, sit down, 5 mins later a very clockable troon enters. Dude is wearing tights and a plaid red and black skirt (pretty short too) with a metal shirt, very long hair, must be trans for a while now. Dude plops down on the floor and starts stretching. Mother fucker, there are kids practicing, quit trying to live out your AGP dreams.

Gets even funnier, Jesus Christ I had to contain my laughter. Anyways, tips for noobs would be helpful, thanks for coming to my Troon Talk.

>>239475
What the fuck is a poon? What the fuck is an AGP? Why do you know all this tranny slang?

RIP to your club though, that shit's a cancer. Cool of that instructor to comp you some classes, but I think you'll eventually discover the rot goes too deep in that club all the same.

>>239492
Poon=Pooner AKA FTM (RIP tomboys, I'm sure if I was born later they'd try to convert me too) AGP=autogynophile, meaning trannies like the idea of themselves as a girl and fucking themselves

Bro, it gets so much funnier. I finally show up to my first class with mammoth tranny in a skirt and tights who is stretching like a weirdo on the floor (he is 6'1, tallest in the class, and got that neanderthal brow ridge going)

I look around and see two doughy people, gal I only see back of her head, she walks weird though and seems frail almost despite being so chubby.

Kids leave (bless them), start class, start introducing ourselves. Tranny introduces himself with a very old fashioned name, at least it isn't Lilith. Gets one or two down to weird gal. HOLY FUCK it's a DUDE! Not only is it a dude, his tard wranglers are there and have to lead him on some questions. Other doughball male is also retarded, legit these two have tard wranglers. I just fucking know retard troon got groomed, no way that happens in a vacuum.

The funniest shit though was retard troon "passed" way better than neanderthal troon. I nearly lost my shit laughing, but managed to keep it together and would just laugh a littler harder than I should at instructor's jokes, which thank God they were funny.

So far I have encountered 3 trannies and 1 pooner at this place, Jesus Christ, and I dunno if it's gonna be worth it to go to this gym in particular but I'll have to scout if there are other HEMA gyms or classes I can find elsewhere, which is sad, because that coach did me such a fucking solid and seemed level headed and knowledgable.

Don't do HRT, kids!

>>239475
>>239526
I'm fucking blessed. While my club has two troons, I teach sidesword and don't have to interact with them much as a result. So far all women in SS are of the female variety. Our troons are also not quite as disgusting, neither of them have even worn leggings so far.
I've seen people start quite a lot older than you are and become pretty decent fencers, depending on how fit and what other hobbies they've had of course. My main piece of advice would be to ask your instructors about exercises you can do at home for whatever weapon it is you're practising, and also to look around for other clubs in your area.

>>239607
>I teach sidesword

>>239475
>>239526
we should seperate the children from trrannies without making it seem awkward. but you sound like you get wrinkles over it like a transharty. hema clearly has failed to provide you mental fortitude

why is HEMA discord so fucking shit
>group think
>no one who is capable wants to give advice openly because the community is mediocre,
>the community there make fun of others but don't like arguing when their target comeback

>>239721
>why is HEMA discord so fucking shit
>discord
Having a community at your fingertips is a detriment. Discussion dies, and the sjws start bringing up their crusades instead of staying on topic. I've kept all my irl nonclub hema people at arms length, and when we meet up we convey ideas and have fun. Don't talk politics or social shit. Just swords and fighting. Its been great.

>>239722
i did mainly talk swords and fighting. i practice some techniques all day and employed it successfuly at club practice., they ganged up over me for trying hard and not having the same emotional profile as them. so multiple of them start interrogating my legitimacy like a bunch of hyenas and unfortunately i tried to be as genvine as possible and overshared. i don't have their fake conscience fake empathy typical american vomit. we are training for sword fighting martial arts, these mfers care so much about how others perceive fighting more than they care about uplifting the sport/culture/skill level

one of the most immediate things that needs to be resolved. is how do we know we're effective without knocking a person out i.e the force generated by both fencers is hard that even a simple chop can KO if it meets its target. barely anyone except ex-athletes from other fields have a remote awareness of injury from contact sports. so when an injury occurs, it creates moral panics and there goes hate bandwagon over something inconsequential. and the ostricizing our best fighters despite being a martial arts. the meme utube channel sellsword literally shows you can have tatami tests on the side to test your winning hits afterwards. we can even have meat poles or wheeled targets to test moving techniques we used in the sparring if it would work with sharp. this should take away 99% of the injuries in sparring just by being aware of lethality doesn't need power, only the amount of resistance between structures. without needing to teach them exactly how cripple someone to not cripple them, because the community could be too irresponsible to be educated about human weak points. lots of weirdos, can be trusted to fence with but not trusted to know how to harm others

>>239705
I don't get it.

>>239705
I don't teach sidesword, but I also don't get it.

>>239728
Why the hell would you be using that much force to begin with? You're not chopping down trees, you're putting cuts into flesh which cuts easy as fuck. Your opponent should have the maturity to call out your meaningfull hits, as should you. Pretty much anything you confidently feel through your gear against your flesh counts as a hit.

What type of sword is this? Got this generic looking "broadsword" model for my vidya, but it doesn't look like any broadsword listed on wikipedia.

>>241024

Given the dimensions, I'm guessing it was based on a xiphos, the forerunner of the gladius.

>>241050
thanks, fren

Can someone redpill me on the whole "Nazigate" thing that happened with the Swedish HEMA scene?

>>241426
>someone thinks they found Axel Pettersson's Tumblr
>this is based on a similarity of the Tumblr account to Axel's known username on Reddit or some shit like that
>the handle is literally just the Latin word for Scandinavian, so it's not some invented shit that nobody could ever pick independently
>the Tumblr contains positive images of Scandinavian landscapes, the Swedish flag etcetera
>this is taken as proof that Axel MIGHT vote for the now-largest party in Sweden, like a plurality (now majority IIRC but it wasn't at the time) of Swedish men
>somehow, all this means that Axel's friend Anders Linnard is a Nazi

It literally is that stupid. If we're honest, it's a classic internal-power-struggle thing; Axel and Anders ran the most prominent HEMA club in the country and arguably the most prominent HEMA event in the world, some other guys didn't get along with them or were just personally envious and so they decided to dethrone them this way, just like people bandwagoning Metoo to get rid of their rivals.

>>241451
>they decided to dethrone them this way
To what extent did it work?

>>241453
Does Swordfish still exist?

No, but I think Linnard still runs GHFS and Axel's still involved on some level, although he got pretty ostracized. Lots of leftyniggers refuse to buy gear from St. Mark's but that could also be justified by the fact that their gloves were literally constructed by duct taping the inner plates together.

There's no historical precedent for fencing with two sabres of the same size. no manuscript detailing it, and no practical reason it should exist. It serves almost no combative advantage and may even be getting in your own way. Anyone who insists on using a "two-saber style" is not practicing hema, but fantasy dueling, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.

>>241570
What brought this on?

>>241664
Any unprompted rant is someone from reddit or the HEMA discord coming to vent anonymously.

>>241664
>>241666
Hema tryhard fb group. you can't call out this individual because they're a " protected species ". I just wanted to enjoy some sword memes and you can't even escape the tranny shit there. Also, nice trips.

>>241689
Oh, is this about that homo Nargo or whatever? Yeah, he's a headcase.

That said, you deserved this for going on Tryhard HEMA. Biggest retard dump in the entire hobby.

>>241570
It was practiced in the orient, pretend you're fighting some chinaman who found his way over on a boat.

>>241570
>no manuscript detailing it
no manuscript details your life
>no practical reason it should exist
having an extra weapon in a brawl is not a practical reason it should exist? you can't outgrapple 2 people with 1 arm, an unoccupied hand is more likely for dueling contrarily to "fantasy dueling"
>it serves no combative advantage
literally having an extra weapon if your first one fails or can't be used because of any reason
>getting in your own way
nigga 98.999 percent of HEMA done today is done in some flat surface where nobody is obstructed and organized matches get halted because of a button falling in the ring
>fantasy dueling
these arguments are very retarded. tell an english archer that exploding metal balls through a metal tube will replace their jobs in 14th century

"extra weapon" *extra saber

>>241828
>tranny is summoned by being mentioned
>seethes immeasurably about being called out
>asshurt point by point """refutation"""
NAYRT but the case against you is unanswerable, my man. Your double saber is retarded af.

>>241849
im literally >239728
your a fucking american with political identity 0 arguments and 0 actual substance.your the only tranny retard here because you talk like a tranny >no practical arguements >instantly political upon opposition

you dumb fuck retard hasgunz need to gtfo of any contact sports nigga retard faggot fucktard

Who are these dumbfucks post 2020 who have been trying to gain clout using this same rhetoric of identity politics across all of the internet in every field possible?

>>241897
>I'm literally a retard who doesn't know how to link posts and writes spergy walls of text about imaginary nonissues
Okay? And this is supposed to convince the rest of us that you're not a tranny tourist somehow?

>>241924
it is your right to be useless in all forums and exercise stupdity. even if you're not from u.s you are a NA'gger in spirit. take the thread away, i will no longer associate with NA'ggers

>>241701
Who the fuck is Nargo? What the fuck is Tryhard HEMA? Redpill me.

What do you guys have to say about the SPES' Hussar set? (Jacket and Pants). The jacket is nearly 4.5 kg at XL, and the pants are 2.25 kg at XL. Does a scrawny tall guy (really not all that strong, has maybe some arm strength but definitely no leg/torso strength) stand a chance in these?

>>242107
It's overbuilt. Approximately nobody uses the Hussar gear. In fact, fewer and fewer people use the regular AP jacket; most people use an AP Light, with the Officer as the second most common choice.

>>242107
>really not all that strong
>definitely no leg/torso strength
You should fix that. >>>/fit/76077351