I'm a lightweight, (1.78m, 60kg), i've been going to judo for some months now, I'm liking it a lot, but, is it comparable/better to wrestling? Especially for a guy my size, I always thought wrestling would be useless as from what I know, it uses a lot of raw strength, while judo (though it still uses strength) is better suited for taking down heavier/stronger people. Is this right? Should I try doing some wrestling? I find judo very good but also sometimes limited by the sport

>>234953 (OP)
>is it comparable/better to wrestling?
Comparable. They have different rule sets and specialize in different techniques but are both good grappling systems. There are shared techniques between judo and wrestling.
>Especially for a guy my size, I always thought wrestling would be useless
I started wrestling at 6 years old. By the time I was 8 I was ragdolling my larger 12 year old cousin who used to pick on me.
>it uses a lot of raw strength
More accurately, it requires more raw athleticism at baseline. It's tougher for battered old men to have a convincing wrestling match than a judo match but as young competitors judoka and wrestlers are both extremely athletic.
>judo (though it still uses strength) is better suited for taking down heavier/stronger people
There's a well-known story about Dr. Kano (small of stature, founder of judo) adapting kata guruma from American wrestling's fireman's carry in order to throw a larger and very skilled guy at the dojo who he couldn't figure out how to beat otherwise (GIF related). While the two disciplines approach it differently both are about efficient application of force as you can't really rely on always having a pure strength advantage, particularly in a weight class sport.
>I find judo very good but also sometimes limited by the sport
A common complaint among judoka is that sport/Olympic judo has corrupted judo as a broader discipline. If you approach it with the mindset that sport judo is something you do to study judo, rather than that judo is something that you study to win at sport judo, you might have a better time (and fewer injuries) in the long term. That said, there are limits to any combat art because it's not sustainable to have life or career ending injuries every bout. Dr. Kano wanted judo practice to be safer than old jujutsu.
>Should I try doing some wrestling?
Absolutely! Both disciplines are a lot of fun and teach you useful things about grappling. What style of wrestling are you looking at?

>>235018
Thanks for the explanation, I probably will try wrestling in some time (basically when I can handle doing both while I'm trying it out). I've always been a bit reluctant to trying it out cause I always saw this giant guys in videos and competitions so I assumed it wasn't for me. Aside from that, it's good to know what I'm doing is actually useful, I've grown a bit wary with trad martial arts as they tend to be too "performative" at times in my experience.
I haven't investigated much about wrestling to know wich style I should try, tho as far as I know it's not very popular in my country, so I may not have the possibility to choose and end up going with what I can find.

>>235141
>I always saw this giant guys in videos and competitions so I assumed it wasn't for me
You are heavier than the lightest Olympic wrestling weight class.
>I've grown a bit wary with trad martial arts as they tend to be too "performative" at times in my experience.
Judo was systemized in 1882 as a modernization of traditional jujutsu. Testing techniques through competition (shiai) has been a steady part of the program since the start. Brazilian jiu jitsu, a popular subdiscipline in mixed martial arts, is a variant of judo. Martial arts that pressure test themselves through full-contact competition tend to be less "performative" than ones who don't.
>I haven't investigated much about wrestling to know wich style I should try, tho as far as I know it's not very popular in my country, so I may not have the possibility to choose and end up going with what I can find.
They're all fun. Whatever's available locally is worth checking out.

WEBM-related is another technique that exists in both judo and wrestling. In wrestling you would call it a headlock takedown whereas in judo the throw is koshi-guruma (hip wheel) and the pin is kesa-gatame (scarf hold).

>>235167
If she did that to you, you would end up sniffing her armpit ever thought about that haha?

>>235167
>You are heavier than the lightest Olympic wrestling weight class.
Yeah, I guess that I'm not as light as it can be, I'm just usually self concious cause for my height I'm verry skinny.
>[...]Martial arts that pressure test themselves through full-contact competition tend to be less "performative" than ones who don't.
Makes a lot of sense, in the end, what teaches how to fight best is fighting. I got a bit worried cause the more "restrictive" rules in judo compared to wrestling, but now that I remember, I heard it used to be more open.
>They're all fun. Whatever's available locally is worth checking out.
I'll look up around my city, but, from a quick search there's really few places I can find. I'll do a deeper search later, I live in a big city so there must be somewhere.

Thanks for your explanation Anon, helped me understand more about this styles. From what I've searched before I couldn't find much content comparing the two as to understand the differences, so it's very helpful.

>>235178
I hadn't, actually. I bet her gi smells like fresh laundry.

>>235179
>I'm just usually self concious cause for my height I'm verry skinny.
Eat more protein and lift weights. >>>/fit/76077351
>more "restrictive" rules in judo compared to wrestling
You can't do chokes or submissions in wrestling so the limits go both ways. The grip fighting is also very different in gi versus no-gi grappling and scholastic/folkstyle wrestling doesn't allow a lot of judo or Greco-Roman style throws.
>I heard it used to be more open
You can probably bait the old guys at your dojo into ranting about this.
>I live in a big city so there must be somewhere
In the US there's not a lot of wrestling outside of the school system. I don't know what the situation is like in your country but hopefully you can find something appealing.
>From what I've searched before I couldn't find much content comparing the two as to understand the differences
Chadi on YouTube has some grappling style-versus-style videos that you might find interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/@Chadi/search?query=judo%20vs%20wrestling
You can probably solicit more opinions in the other threads about >>>/xs/judo and >>>/xs/wrestling . If you post Chadi videos in the judo thread with your questions you're pretty much guaranteed a response because of some questionable takes on training methodology he semi-recently expressed.

>>235181
>Eat more protein and lift weights.
I've been getting into calisthenics, afaik it doesn't get you very big but is very efficient in getting you strong. It's also very convenient that I can do all from home, wich saves me a lot of time. I try to eat at least something of protein everyday, but that's probably not enough.
>You can't do chokes or submissions in wrestling so the limits go both ways. The grip fighting is also very different in gi versus no-gi grappling and scholastic/folkstyle wrestling doesn't allow a lot of judo or Greco-Roman style throws.
I wasn't aware of that, I always thought it was much more "lawless"
>Chadi on YouTube has some grappling style-versus-style videos that you might find interesting
Thanks, I'll check that out too

>>235184
>I've been getting into calisthenics, afaik it doesn't get you very big but is very efficient in getting you strong. It's also very convenient that I can do all from home, wich saves me a lot of time.
Calisthenics are good but weight training is more efficient. Does your dojo have a weight room?
>I try to eat at least something of protein everyday, but that's probably not enough.
If you're serious about wanting to change your body composition you really should be tracking your macros. Reading the previously linked /fit/ sticky might be beneficial.
>I wasn't aware of that, I always thought it was much more "lawless"
Catch wrestling allows a wider variety of submissions than BJJ but it isn't as widely practiced today as it was at the start of the 20th century. While you can still find some legitimate catch-as-catch-can gyms, freestyle wrestling (no submissions, one of the Olympic styles), scholastic/folkstyle wrestling (no submissions, the main style in American schools), and professional wrestling (choreographed combat theatre) are derivatives of catch wrestling which are more popular today.

>>235189
>Does your dojo have a weight room?
No, but there are many gyms around. I'm thinking about doing calisthenics for now, as I'm still very unathletic, and when I start to get fitter hit the weights (if I have enough time, that is)
>Reading the previously linked /fit/ sticky might be beneficial.
I'll do that, thanks for the info
>Catch wrestling allows a wider variety of submissions than BJJ but it isn't as widely practiced[...]
Oh, that's good to know. Didn't know there were so many styles too, I lumped them all together as one in my head lol (except for pro wrestling ofc)

>>235196
>Didn't know there were so many styles too
That's just the tip of the iceberg. Pretty much everybody has had their own style of wrestling at some point in history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_wrestling
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling

>>235198
So cool desu, it great seeing martial arts having so many different styles depending on the needs of those who developed at their times.
>webm
lol that must hurt

>>234953 (OP)
So this is kind of a semantic point, but to me "wrestling" is like an umbrella term, and you have subtypes of it, but it's all wrestling
So for example, there's 2 types of "wrestling", there's
>jacket wrestling
and
>no-jacket wrestling
No-jacket wrestling can include the ones you probably know, like the olympic styles
>freestyle
>greco-roman
but also
>american folkstyle
but also more esoteric ones, like
>sumo
>scottish backhold
Then you have jacket wrestling, and the obvious example is
>judo
but there's also
>sport / combat sambo
>shui jiao
then more that add limitations, like being unable to remove your grip, like
>irish collar and elbow
>chidaoba
and then ones that don't use a literal "jacket" at all, but just something else that you grip to, like
>bokh
>belt wrestling
And probably loads of others
And not to mention
>arm wrestling
Which is genuinely a style of wrestling, just hyper-limited

If you enjoy judo but want to branch out, one option is to find another club near you and try something different. Nothing wrong with that. But you might try talking to some of your training partners and seeing if any of them want to drill some no-gi stuff with you after class?

>>234953 (OP)
I like both. Think of it like this:
Wrestling as the physical workout
Judo as the technical workout

Wrestling will allow you to improve strength and agility, but raw strength isn't enough to adapt to every opponent, especially in an unfair fight, that's where Judo becomes useful, careful observation of your opponent, an objective knowledge of your strengths and weaknesses and mastery in Judo will allow you to devise a strategy to win the fight before it even starts

>>234953 (OP)
>(1.78m, 60kg)
bruh how the fuck, are you a stick? I'm 1.70m, 68kg and I'm pretty lean (~15% bf)

>>234953 (OP)
>sometimes limited by the sport
that's why combat sports are a meme, but all in all, judo is one of the most applicable to real life

an unarmed lowlife wants to kill you? he will go grab you, he won't just stand there taking shots like it's a turn based game

lowlife pulls out a knife? Provided I can't just run the fuck away, I'd only try to disarm if there's a good shot I could do it, otherwise just pull out my gun or knife.

2 or more lowlifes? You're not fucking Bruce Lee, better have good sprinting speed cause that's your best chance to survive. Failing that, gun, ofc

tl;dr train your legs, your best skill is running, and depending on the situation, climbing and parkour could come in handy also

>>236828
Then the best shot is doing japanese jiu jitsu, since that's basically classical judo anyways.

>>236825
Years ago I offered this perspective to a judoka who wrestled in college and he told me it just meant I wasn't good enough at wrestling.

>>236826
I once met a young man who was 2.06m and 57kg. Once he had access to better nutrition and started training he put on weight fast enough that he ended up with stretch marks on his biceps.

>>236828
>2 or more lowlifes? You're not fucking Bruce Lee, better have good sprinting speed cause that's your best chance to survive. Failing that, gun, ofc
If you're in good fighting shape and normal sized or bigger taking on 2+ lowlifes is entirely feasible, though deescalation and escape are generally preferable. When I worked security at a club a coworker of mine with a strong wrestling background beat the shit out of two bikers who pulled brass knuckles on him and the fight was so one-sided in his favor that none of the other bouncers stepped in to help him. I've had some good results in sparring contexts but fortunately have the right combination of luck and deescalation skill to never have needed to try it irl.

>>236828
On knives, I have a few webms of knife fights fought well with grappling and throws, but I'm posting this one to show an underappreciated aspect which judo excels at, which is the grip fighting
Most of this fight is spent grabbing each other's clothing and gripping, vying for position. If the good guy had practice stripping grips and dominating he might have saved himself getting stabbed in the head a few times.

>>235178
You ever think about not being a pathetic beta virgin posting stupid shit on the internet?

>>234953 (OP)
I'd go with judo over wrestling because it has more stand up takedowns, submissions, and there isn't any concern about being on your back. Whenever you grapple with wrestlers that haven't trained outside of wrestling, you'll find that they always give you their backs...because that's the way they've always trained in wrestling.

>>236970
It took me several weeks to break that habit when I switched from wrestling to judo.