>create race of creatures in your setting
>creatures are wholly and unapologetically evil
>kill other living things constantly
>deceive and lie whenever it helps them
>literally incapable of understanding things like love, compassion, or mercy
>prove multiple times that they cannot be reasoned with or made to change their ways in any capacity
>there are STILL people who believe that you can be nice to them and they'll be nice to you, both in and out of universe

Why does this always happen?

You can't be nice to them but the new best demon girl coming would probably have sex with you if you asked. It's just sitting in my mind since seeing her back story. Her curiosity has definitely had her fucking humans before killing them.

People be retarded
Shrimple as
All demons must die
Total demon death
Kill all filthy demons
Roundhouse kick a demon into the sun
Throw demons into woodchippers
Stab demons TWENTY EIGHT STAB WOUNDS TO THE CHEST until they die
Be rude to demons before shooting them in the face with a double barrel shotgun
Etc. Etc.

>>280853755 (OP)
allegory for the west?

>>280853755 (OP)
Because humans will usually treat humans with at least some courtesy. Demons emulate emotions to exploit that. Same as everyone thinks a chatbot has emotions or falls in love with it just because it can emulate humans well enough.

>>280853755 (OP)
Probably because the whole thing is contrived and poorly written.

>demons look and act like humans only in order to deceive them!
>except that they also act like humans when interacting among themselves, with no human in sight

>demons don't feel or understand human emotions, they merely simulate them in order to deceive them!
>except they also emote by themselves when doing so would bring no advance whatsoever

It's just garbage for low IQ individuals

>>280853755 (OP)
>"Someone that sexy couldn't possibly be evil"
>Turns out that sexy someone was in fact very evil
Then they die before getting a chance to learn from their mistakes and thinking with their dicks. Meanwhile the demons move on to the next village. Wash, rinse, repeat.

>>280854712
>Someone that sexy couldn't possibly be evil"
That's a child. That's a literal pre-pubescent child.

>>280854784
out of ten!

>>280853755 (OP)
They just wanna fuck Aura and are using weak platitudes to justify sparing her. If they were ugly, no one one would give a fuck.

>>280853755 (OP)
Great men should risk their lives to try and domesticate demons into being perfect loliwives who don't age. Only genocidal incels and jealous women want to eradicate them.
Imagine settling down with a fat bitch like Fern when you could have Aura or Linie instead.

>>280853755 (OP)

>>280853755 (OP)
Look at current chatbots in reality. Talking like a human on surface level is enough to make many people think they have actual sentience.

How to bring an end to the demon race:

Collectively place a curse on them to always speak the truth.

>>280853755 (OP)
aura was cute

>>280853755 (OP)
Because I have no enemies.

>>280854651
If they're creatures that evolved to imitate rather than doing it in a conscious rationalised way then that seems perfectly reasonable to me. A venus fly trap doesn't stop being colourful when there are no flies around, but that doesn't make it a flower.
t. haven't watched Frieren

>>280853755 (OP)
its a trope

>>280854651
Frieren is wrong about the demons

>>280853755 (OP)
Happens too irl, look at all the Jews and mudslims living amongs normal people

>>280853755 (OP)
I have pondered this question a million times concerning real life ethnic groups

>>280854651
>>280856667
Predators usually don't evolve to be less effective at hunting their prey they don't even really to consume to survive. If Frieren is lying this would explain all of these contradictions though.

>>280857458
I said lying, but wrong would fit better.

>>280856352
That won't do. You see because even though every word demons speak is meant to decieve. They don't quite lie. They speak for effect; that is to say that they repeat words they've heard before to try and provoke a reaction they've seen before. It's like a cat that chirps like a bird. There is nothing untrue about their words, the problem lies with the recipient of those words. Demons only speak to catch their prey, any being that thinks otherwise is stupid beyond salvation.

>>280853755 (OP)
It's exactly what happens with the various conflicting ideologies, cultures, and ethnicities in real life, and it happens for the same reason in this work of fiction as it does here: short-term memory of the peoples themselves, who will not harbor disdain or hatred generationally and are quick to forget the downsides of interacting with these creatures, should they simply not come around for a bit or make their presence obnoxiously apparent.

Social groups will accept almost anyone new into their fold if this new addition can keep up an appearance for longer than a day. For a demon, who has a longer lifespan than man anyway, this is a trivial task and integrating temporarily in human society is easy.

You don't see demons in the empire's capital or anywhere near the mage association, as both of those places are knowledgeable about demons, and understand the risks they pose. The leaders of large civilizations cannot readily afford to (nor would they) make any relationships with what has historically been an adversarial faction, unlike the smaller demesnes such as Weise.

Knowledge is ultimately the deciding factor of keeping foreign entities at bay. An uninformed people will never recognize wolves in sheep's clothing; a knowledgeable people will see the vacuum salesman coming by boat and start shooting at him before he even makes landfall, to deter him from ever arriving.

>>280853755 (OP)
>there are STILL people who believe that you can be nice to them and they'll be nice to you, both in and out of universe
I don't believe kindness is the solution but I think it's theoretically possible to coexist with them based on their behavior in the anime, that being said I don't think the world as it was presented has a path towards that theoretical.
So while I think Frieren's belief are wrong about the details of demonic nature her approach is the correct one.

>>280853755 (OP)
always the case

>>280857914
It IS possible, as one demon lord proved. With enough time it is possible for demons to understand humans and learn to coexist with them. The problem is that there aren't enough humans for them to still BE alive after the time it would take for the demons to learn that. So while it is possible mathematically, it can't happen.

>>280858649
My vision of coexistence is humanity being hyper dominant where demons could clearly see that killing in any context unsanctioned by human law would have no outcome but their own death, where any deception significant enough would eventually be figured out.
With Demons only coming out to execute a condemned criminal before retreating back to a dungeon.

>>280858917
Some are smart enough or experienced enough to follow basic logic even if they don't understand the reasoning behind it.

>>280857458
the anon replying to OP is a retard that needs every detail spoonfed to him because he can't theorize or extrapolate, wouldn't bother elaborating on anything with him

The real question is who was in the wrong here?

>>280853755 (OP)
All these comments like
>this is exactly like real race relations
When the point is that demons are completely unlike humans.

>>280858917
The problem is that demons are long lived and very magically proficient. It's hard for humans to achieve that level of domination to enforce the rule of law on demons.

>>280859878
It's amazing how these fags always attach a real world race onto [EVIL MONSTER RACE] as if that isn't the most racist thing you can do out of the gate.

>>280857207
No.
>>280858649
>one demon lord proved
If you mean Demon King he was massacreing people by the nation for centuries. His intent -may- have been true, but his methods were no different than dictator murder madness.
spoiler for the anime only dipshits. Seriously, read manga.
If you mean Macht, he spent centuries turning people inside out to see if he could understand guilt or sadness or remorse.
If you mean Macht, his alliance with Glück was very openly between them decided to be for Glück's political benefit with Macht having access to his murder-research with no risk to Macht, and the final move of their "friendship" was again decided from the beginning that Macht would Gold them all anyways when Glück was ready to die.

>>280853755 (OP)
No one naturally believes in beings of pure evil. It's ideological nonsense implanted into them. If you see a qt anthro demon girl, your instinct is to fuck her. That's what the demons bet on.

>>280860009
Which is why I don't see coexistence being practical despite being possible in theory.

>>280859727
Neither but fern kinda overreacted

Living with demons is like living with a pet tiger. Enjoy it while it lasts because one day its going to eat your face.

I WILL fuck Linie until she kills me

>>280853755 (OP)
They are beautiful, that's why. If they were generic ugly demons acting the same way they wouldn't care.

Do demons fuck or are they borne of mud and filth kinda like orcs

>>280862383
in the sequence from the op, i remember frieren saying something among the lines of "you demons dont raise your young, why were you saying mommy"
which makes me believe that demons do fuck, and then the male fucks off and the female just spends some time pregnant, gives birth, and fucks off leaving the offspring alone.
theyre beasts after all.

>>280862632
Makes me wonder if demons mate like stray cats.
Every time I see those fuckers going at it, it looks and sounds like they're fighting.

>>280862632
True, but its hard to imagine pregnant demon
Imagine aura or solitar 9 months pregnant
Also, there probably aren’t many male demons with high enough mana (social status) to dick them down

>>280853755 (OP)
For starters, it makes absolutely no fucking sense a sentient and highly social race is incapable of empathy. Not just feeling it but rationalizing it. As a member of a sentient and highly social race, it's in our nature to empathize. We empathize with animals, plants, even rocks in the right lighting.
For seconders, it makes absolutely no fucking sense the rest of the world didn't do a scorched earth crusade on demons for innately refusing to play ball. The powers that be seem content to just let them hang around like they learned their lesson post-war. And it's fucking ridiculous the lack of discrimination they face. Like they're literally demons. You know, the things we don't even have and yet have tons of fables about never trusting? Frieren's worldbuilding sucks and is a jumbled heap of half-baked ideas and the author just wants to pull out the "wooo~ demons are actually evil~" twist because it was the only bright idea they had after deciding frequent timeskips were too hard.

>>280861761
You could've just said Fern.

>>280862875
>For starters, it makes absolutely no fucking sense a sentient and highly social race is incapable of empathy.
Bro never visited India.

>>280862765
they probably go through heat seasons, its hard to imagine how else a demon would willingly have intercourse when this puts their personal survival at risk, but if they didnt mate they would have gone extinct. also you dont need to assume the females spend 9 months pregnant, since every "human" aspect they have is just mimicry they evolved in order to trick humans. since theyre basically clumps of mana (im assuming this based off the fact that they dont leave corpses behind) they may just reproduce and spend a month or so carrying.
also
>there probably aren’t many male demons with high enough mana (social status) to dick them down
assuming that they go on heat seasons, high powered demons may eventually learn to control their heat, or just fuck whatever shows up, go through pregnancy, and either leave their offspring to fend off by themselves or kill it to eat their mana.

>>280853885
no demon bully pls

>>280853755 (OP)
Demons are not borderline evil, just so fucking outlandishly different to every other sapient race, that all they do is being fucking cunts. Solitär compares demons later on to orca whales as convergent evolution and the comparison is quite fitting. A fucking orca doesn't give a shit how a fish he eats feel.

Demons in Frieren are basically land orcas that ar best try to have their livestock live in peace and don't fight back when it is feeding time. The so called "peace" between demons and everyone else would just be that:
A large oversizef free range ranch so demons can pet their prey before they eat it.

>>280862875
Demons are really strong, stronger than most of the strongest humans can offer. Demons could possibly see the world through the lense of a child with a magnifying glass, burning ants whenever he pleases. And think "Why not" when killing/eating a human, just because they're bored. Or maybe it's of a vampire-like lashing out, where they feel the urge to kill those around them for food. The series doesn't really go into the specifics. We've seen them "scared" with the wire demon Frieren killed; Somewhat with Aura before she died. So they "feel" something, but possibly only when it concerns themselves. First thing the baby eater did was take a hostage when she felt the tides turn against her.

>>280862875
>it makes absolutely no fucking sense a sentient and highly social race is incapable of empathy
don't say it... don't say it...

>>280863234
So its just The Promised Neverland plotline the demons see as their Peaceful co-existence with humanity again? How is this a unique and creative master piece again?

>>280863479
when did he say it was, retard

>>280863634
> The demons literally have free-range farms of humans in various sizes they eat, when before they were hunting them down in the wilderness.
It literally is Promised Neverland plotline as their idea of paradise, go fuck yourself you dishonest liar and stop back pedalling the reason you lot are shilling this as such a huge and big plot twist is because you think its original and creative.

ITS NOT.

>>280863713
Don't forget the demon Michael Großzügig who diddled demon kids in Neverland.

>>280863760
Yep that too. It was anti-pedopeddlers the manga funnily enough the reason the season 2 got rushed because of politics.

>>280863713
absolute brainlet, when did he say it's a "unique and creative masterpiece"
don't bring up points other people make when arguing with someone else you utter mongoloid

>>280853755 (OP)
I mean IRL think about how many retards have been killed by wild animals because they just forgot that wild animals are dangerous and not the shit you see in movies

>>280863713
You're retarded, that person was just making an example. No demon has a Promised Neverland style farm in Frieren. We haven't even seen a demon make any comment in wanting one.

>>280863774
Stop calling Frieren creative and original then in every thread you spastic. Being irony filled to this point is harmful you know.

>>280863815
He was making an example, I was just stating that as the example of what they were imagining, they wish they could have farms like that, dishonest lying about my posts now? Frieren is for low-IQ (85 or less) subhumans who can't follow complex plotlines. LOL.

>>280863818
I never have and neither did the guy you replied to for all you know you fucking retard, that's my point
you're completely braindead, holy shit, no reading comprehension, zero theory of mind

>>280853755 (OP)
>>literally incapable of understanding things like love, compassion, or mercy
They have reason, they just don't have the emotions. If you were to establish some sort of IF AND relationship, they would be able to agree to it if they wanted to.
If you X then Y happens.
Much like humans they will be liable to break the terms whenever they want though.
Such a relationship would have to be clearly presented as being favorable to them to bother of course (not that it couldn't be mutually favorable).

The demon in the beginning with the girl was "trying" to do "good thing" but had fucking no basis point so ended up doing bad thing.
>human sad daughter is dead
>I bring new daughter
>kill old man and bring the daughter
>oh, mistake
You could maybe get them a job as a streamer.

>>280863818
You're the only one who has said that this entire thread esltard.

>>280863818
>>280863834
What kind of mental asylum let you sperg out of your cell?

>>280863834
>Frieren is for low-IQ (85 or less) subhumans who can't follow complex plotlines.
Perfect series for you then. Jesus...

>>280853755 (OP)
i dunno man
why would anyone like demons
what could it be
i havent the faintest
perhaps one day we will solve this mystery

>>280854651
>>except that they also act like humans when interacting among themselves, with no human in sight
The spider ants that are spiders and look like ants act like ants when they're among their own kind. The behavior is usually done to prevent predators which are effectively omnipresent.
So, for your stupid example, were demons using the same evolutionary strategy that spider mimics use, they would continue acting like humans because they don't know what / who is around. Why would they ever drop the act? In what way would it be more beneficial to them to "act like [whatever you think demons SHOULD act like]?"

For the second point, it's explicitly stated they understand some emotions just not all of them.

>>280854651
Frieren is biased on the subject. She is right on a lot of their behavior, but she takes it too far, which is where the confusion comes from.
Yes, the demon's main objective is usually to murder whoever they're talking to, so they will utilize deception.
No, they are not always lying, demons can have normal conversations with each other.
Demons do not grasp a lot of emotions, a prominent example is how they do not feel guilt.
No, they are not entirely emotionless, they can feel fear, frustration, and pride.
Demons are not JUST mimics, however they are not very smart either. A demon would know murdering a guard in a bad idea, but the one that did this did not grasp that because human social life is alien to him.

>>280863849
Lügner was pissed when he realized Fern was suppressing her mana. Aura whimpered and cried when she killed herself. They have emotions, anon.

>>280856352
>Collectively place a curse on them to always speak the truth
Have you ever read The Wheel of Time?
The Aes Sedai is a group of magic-using women who, as part of their vows into the group, take a magic binding vow to never lie.
You know what they do?
They never lie. That doesn't mean they tell the truth though.
>Do these pants make me look fat?
>I think that blue's a lovely color on you!

>Do you think I can win this fight?
>I can foresee a possibility of you doing so. (Not said: if a fucking meteor drops out of the sky and lands on them because you're fuuuuuccccked otherwise)

>>280863942
He was wrong on that point.
They do have some emotions. They feel for their own selves, but can't for others.

The problem is that Frieren's writer is not nearly as clever as he thinks he is and can't actually convey why we should want all the demons dead. So they're pure evil and have no concept of emotion and familial love...except that they clearly do. Like Macht's friends and Aura's crying after her loss.

The information we're told does not match what we actually see from them. Plus Frieren is clearly biased against them so nothing she says is to be trusted. If you want to do a pure evil race, don't make them indistinguishable from all your other characters. Not a hard writing concept

>>280860022
>green skinned race
>do nothing but murder and rape
>are rude, ugly, and have no civilization
>...wtf how dare you make those orcs a stand in for blacks!
The first few times I saw this I honestly thought they were trolling me.

>>280863942
Yeah that was a mistake on my part. I meant they understood reason just not "(all) emotion".
I wonder if they would obey frieren if she decided to flaunt her mana under the rule of might makes right.
She's basically asking to be assaulted with her mana covered up like a slut.

>>280863479
I can't imagine Frieren ever saying this

>>280853755 (OP)
>there are STILL people who believe that you can be nice to them and they'll be nice to you
We, the viewer, are given knowledge that most people in-universe do not receive. We see the demons behind closed doors, we see Frieren's experiences with them, we see the nightmare scenarios realized. Your average person has probably only ever heard of a demon, let alone seen one, and are fooled by the human-like behavior of them.
As for those viewers who doubt the ontologically evil status of demons, that's because the demons as presented as being more than emotionless machines, which makes it hard for people to separate the apparent humanity from what we are told about them by an admittedly biased character in Frieren herself. The demons clearly have society, hierarchy, fears, and values even if they're twisted and radically amoral, but humans can also be radical extremes and so some viewers extrapolate this to means there is more to demons than meets the eye.
>prove multiple times that they cannot be reasoned with or made to change their ways in any capacity
This can just be seen as confirmation bias. "Multiple times" means very little because the sample size is still ridiculously small and all it takes is one example of a demon acting ambiguously or its nature being called into question for viewers to wonder if there is more.
I'm personally in the camp of demons being diametrically opposed to humanity, but being slightly more complex than being fully incapable of love, compassion, mercy. They very clearly have their own alien emotions, but the author's attempts to write them as such is clumsy and just makes them come off as scheming humans with retard strength and horns.

>>280864039
Literally nobody mourned Macht. At most they thought of his death as inconvenient. During his arc, he states that he understands emotions like anger or fear, but that doesn't extend to other people, not even demons. Aura was afraid of dying and felt sorry for herself, but that doesn't mean she could feel sorry for or grieve others.

>>280864146
Again, that's just another instance of taking normal human behavior and declaring it a demon trait. Plenty of people lack empathy.

>>280864178
>normal human behavior
>completely lacking empathy
Anon...

>>280853755 (OP)
So demons are british?

>>280864224
It's normal in that it isn't unheard of, but yeah it's not the majority of the human population.

>>280863815
I don't think demons could even conceive of farming their food - they simply wouldn't understand the point.

>>280863849
>The demon in the beginning with the girl was "trying" to do "good thing"
This makes me wonder. If they truly are selfish creatures, why would she do this? No harm became of her from the mother whose baby she ate. The mother did stare daggers into the demon kid. If she continued to live in the village she probably would have been fine. The chief treated her nice, fed her, clothed her. Why did she give that all up to appease that lady? Was it a possible contingency in her head to prevent the lady from attacking her, the demon does state she felt hatred from the mother. Or did she really feel "guilty" and wanted to right a wrong? Maybe there was just this urge to kill them and she used the child as an excuse.

>>280864344
For sure, I don't know if the series confirms it but they don't even need to eat humans. Unlike the TPN demons who need to eat humans to remain intelligent, Frieren demons do it just cause they can. Hell it might take things away from what they enjoy about eating humans.

>>280853755 (OP)
Demons are so cute.
Love the demons!
Cherish the demons!

>>280864577
Aura, kill yourself.

>>280864291
Contrary to popular belief, even psychopaths have empathy. It's just diminished.
Frankly, I'd be willing to believe that some demons may have some miniscule amount of empathy that they could develop if they tried for long enough, similarly to how Frieren was shown to be slow to understand her own feelings due to her longevity. The problem then is that developing empathy would be such a difficult and time comsuming process that it'd probably take millenia for even one of them to meaningfully comprehend it, and they'd go through countless humans in their pursuit, like scientists using lab rats for their experiments. Macht's arc covered this.
Even if a demon expresses an interest in understanding humans, it's not in humanity's interest to indulge it.

Demons are just incredibly autistic. So they're just like me. Yes, i relate to the demons.

Demons belong to human men

>>280853755 (OP)
A being with consciousness will always have an option of denying their programming. People are not designed to kill themselves but some do.
The fact that you don't understand this is concerning.

>>280864612
Psychopaths have empathy they just don't express it well or understand how to deal with issues like loss and grief so they usually lash out instead. Psychopaths also more or less enjoy the company of animals instead which they can connect better with than humans on a personal level, they just like simpler relationships of caring and being taken care of, not complex drama. That's more of a narcissist who wants to be in control of the show with her flying monkeys.

Considering there's a thread about Frieren every damn day, it really might as well be officially considered one of the best anime ever made

>>280864344
>fully conscious being with advanced intelligence
>they just... le wouldn't think of something
What does that even mean? Humans try everything. Some people decide to literally eat shit, some people cut their dicks off, some climb mountains for "fun". Nonsensical things but someone does them, that's what intelligence is, it makes you curious, makes you want to try everything that's physically possible for you to do

>>280865420
I hope you get raped to death by a demon.

>>280865433
>A being with consciousness will always have an option of denying their programming.
Qualify this.

>>280865456
Psychopaths do have a thing for control. Psychopaths who have no sense of control in their childhood tend to become especially bad. They try to gain control in the most fucked up ways since they dont really understand human feelings like one is supposed to. Many end up in prison, whereas psychopaths with good childhoods tend to act normal for the most part.

It's funny how demons that deceive humans through mimicking them has existed in folklore all over the world for thousands of years yet once you introduce the concept to Americans their brains start melting like it's some great paradox of life. Like there just has to be good man eating demons out there. How can there not be, what about the good serial killing monstrosities, where are those???

I guess this is what happens when your entire nations 'culture' is derived exclusively from 20th century TV shows.

>>280865570
People hope that things would be good, even when its obvious that they're not. Like the existence of life, for example.

>>280861761
Stark can crush mountains with his hand grip.
How would you react if somebody quietly put your head in a vice?

>>280864039
Really felt like the author wanted demons to be mindless predatory beasts. But how the author written the demons just made them more of a race of magically powered sociapaths.

>>280864471
>If they truly are selfish creatures, why would she do this?
Dogs try to please the humans who take care of them despite the humans regularly feeding them. Not the best examples since dogs are known for their empathy, but yeah. "Attempting to make your living situation work" is a pretty normal thing for all living creatures.

>Why did she give that all up to appease that lady?
She didn't know that that would be "giving it up". Aside from the emotional stuff, they seem to be entirely lacking in "basic human knowledge", remember that one line of them not even knowing what a father is?
VASTLY different spheres knowledge with the power to easily kill = bad times.

>>280865547
NTA but people have biological drive to feed (hunger), yet they have the option of just starving themselves for health (fast) or even to the point of death (sadness, giving food to children, accident)

>>280865570
It's really funny how Frierenfags are incapable of justifying this writing without coming back to strawman arguments about how it's too smart for us

>>280865642
It doesn't help that the whole "emotionless monster" thing doesn't work when no one in your manga emotes.

>us
what a tool

attention demon lovers:
STOP LOVING EVIL WOMEN

>>280866347
I know what I said bitch

>>280854651
>>except they also emote by themselves when doing so would bring no advance whatsoever
It can considered as practice, like how we practice hunting and killing as children by running around and playing.

>>280862171
I have to admit that Linie is probably the least bloodthirsty tiger out of all demons. Still a dangerous predator, but there's a good chance she'll leave you alone if you won't provoke her.

>>280853755 (OP)
>creatures are wholly and unapologetically evil
>kill other living things constantly
>deceive and lie whenever it helps them
>literally incapable of understanding things like love, compassion, or mercy
>prove multiple times that they cannot be reasoned with or made to change their ways in any capacity
Why are you describing humans?

>>280866557

>>280853755 (OP)
>live way behind the frontlines
>most people have never even seen a demon during the peaceful era
>even the stories of them sound like boomer racism about the colored folks and exaggerations
>emotionally manipulate humanity's weakness (empathy) against them to great effect to the point that a guy whose dad died hesitated
>play into their fantasy of peaceful co-existence with a parasitical and predatory species
>only a elf hag that lived during the demon king era knows how serious and incompatible with co-existence threat demons are to humanity
>"hurr durr, why backwater village and people trusting their king no suspect them?"
they wore human skins on purpose and tried to make "peace talks" with them, with the mountain of corpses of old heroes of north and the guys own father as a victim of war plus the demon's bullshit story for sympathy i didn't think it was this hard to comprehend that a enemy who prays on empathy is kill on sight exactly because the ones who don't know any better by having first hand experiences are retardedly naive when it comes to inhumanely evil beings without a shred of remorse or empathy

I can't wait for the reveal that the Demon King was actively trying to be a nice guy and then we get some contrived reason why that's a bad thing. What was that Frieren said? Humanity wouldn't survive his attempts to understand them

>>280866822
it's simple, just imagine a mentally retarded psychopath that thinks they're helping by making humanity more like them or some fucked up shit to bring humanity closer to them on the meeting board
at least gold finger genuinely tried to understand but the human king was too fucking retarded to not monkey's paw the restraint by not understanding demon's

>>280854651
Retard

>>280865570
>soldiers
>crusaders
>inquisitons
>the church
>the state
>literally every fucking organization at some point in history that has a history longer than 100 years
nah they've just been conditioned to pretend to not notice the evil around them due to living in greatest ally dystopian hellhole where you have to jump over homeless people to get to work and tell yourself that every one of those homeless people chose to be homeless out of laziness

>>280853755 (OP)
Almost all creatures have self preservation as their top priority.
So if you kill enough demons, the surviving ones will submit and become your willing sex slaves

Frierenfags... Is this really your ''hero''.....?

>>280854651
It's still a respectable 6/10 if you factor in the stellar animation by Madhouse even if the writing is lacking. But you do have a point, it's a more enjoyable watch if you turn your brain off.

Simply not true. Demons lack the empathy circuit of humans and they are solitary from birth without the concept of a family. But they do very much have feelings, this was made plainly obvious many times. Furthermore, they are happy to bargain with you, as they have repeatedly shown to be okay with letting enemies go who they feel are inferior to themselves. At this point I don’t even think they particularly desire killing people, and if they kill it’s only because killing someone benefits them or is an order by a superior, etc. The only thing they seem to really are about is their magic.
>>280866822
The Maou’s thoughts are easy to understand in this case. Humans are far below demons based on magic power which is all demons care about it. So, from his perspective, why does he need to exterminate humans? Why can’t humans be of use to him? Maybe he thinks the human-demon hierarchy can be settled via battle tournaments etc and so therefore there’s no need for the war.

>>280866932
just replace the word demon with the word jewish and the word magic with money and you start to understand the demon hierarchy and social structure
if your father is weaker than you why would you stick around them, if your son is weaker than you why would you keep them around
just think of demon's as purely utilitarian psychopaths that see humans as animals and who only care about accumulating more power who only work together when it's beneficial and only seek to understand human's so they can better exploit their weaknesses against them

it's really not that hard to understand them unless you're completely naive to history

>>280866083
>incapable of justifying this writing
wtf is there to justify, stories involving monster that eat people have existed since the dawn of time across all cultures. It's like asking writers to justify why write a hero character that wins, you are just blindly criticising an element that exists in 99% of pre 21st century fantasy stories.
Having le-misundwstood not actually all that bad monsters is a very modern, American, invention. You should be asking whats the justification for those kind of creatures instead

>b-buh demon king and gold finger
we don't know enough about demon kings goals to say it wasn't just enslaving humans and only eating a little bit of human flesh and gold finger flat out told he came to the king guys service so he can "learn more about humanity" it was his psychology research trip and the mask fell of when he realized he reached the limit of his research

>>280865404
newsflash anon, you can be autistic and a psychopath

>>280866991
There are ways to do an all evil race, this simply isn't it. You can't make them sympathetic and then get surprised when people sympathize.

Its an allegory for the Chinese.

>>280854651
You're a complete fucking retard. The behavior of the demons is ingrained into them, it's their natural way of being. They don't deceive humans as a deliberate, conscious decision to be deceptive as opposed to truthful, like a human may decide to deceive, they are deceptive because all of their ingrained characteristics and natural behaviors lead to them being deceptive. They behave the same amongst each other because this is natural behavior for them.

You decided in your mind to pretend that demons are actually normal people who deceive as a conscious choice when in the presence of humans, but no, that's not right and never was. They just act according to their nature and this results in deceptive behavior, and they act according to their nature all the time, not just when humans are present.

>>280865456
>>280864612
There are two different kinds of empathy. I forgot the names but it's basically cognitive and emotional. Demons in frieren and psychopaths in the real world are identical. They only have cognitive empathy which means they cannot under any circumstances *feel* for another living or dead thing. They can however if they are smart enough and/or are taught make reasonable assumptions about other people's feelings and how to influence them for their own gain. Like evoking pity or fear. That is not understanding though, just like how humans can't understand a fourth dimension even if we can mathematically work with infinite dimensions. Their true emotions, complete disdain, will inevitably show itself eventually in all cases however because no living being can consistently keep themselves under control. No emotions isn't meant to be literally. Emotions are the basis of living for any organism more developed than the most basic ones which only show strict "if-then" responses". Someone without any emotions would just die like the guy in dungeon meshi who got half eaten.

>>280867265
Oh shut up asshole, demons are just badly written. You don't have to get so worked up when someone points it out.

>>280867287
Oh shut up asshole, you are just stupid. You don't have to get so worked up when someone points it out.

>>280853755 (OP)
>Why does this always happen?
Jews.

>>280867223
It's honestly the best way to do it. Makes retards like you circuit break because you can't comprehend a pretty face being mean.

demon's are psychopath
elves are autists
human's are (mostly) low IQ normies

The idea of entire sentient species not having a culture, language, behavioral pattern, not even an appearance of their own that wasn't copied by another one that they want to prey upon is just retarded, I'm sorry. The worlbuilding in this thing is fucking stupid.

>>280867485
>culture
kratokracy / meritocracy / plutocracy
>language
you don't really need to talk when the only thing you have to say to your species for decades is flashing them your dick to prove it is bigger than theirs and slapping them if they disagree
>behavioral pattern
even real life humans are more complex than a retarded generilization of a set of repeated actions
>no appearance of their own
didn't watch even the anime
the more human you look the more you're relying on something other than magic, the creator of zoltraak was one of the top dogs of his era and thus didn't need to blend in with humans to fuck their shit up

>>280867410
I'm amazed at how you think this entire debate is because no one can comprehend attractive characters being evil.

>>280867312
Congratulations, you argue like a child. What big boy comeback will you have next?

>>280867557
he's making a point, it's retarded in context but he has one

>>280867540
Literally nothing you typed out here actually addresses what that anon said.

>>280865596
she's going to get plapped by him in the future so she'd better get used to that

i gave him irl examples that he can compare to the demon hierarchy (which is explained even in the first season of the anime by the protagonist the show is named after so it's hard to miss)
not my fault you people are farming (you)'s by "pretending" to be retarded

>>280867557
You're retarded for thinking it's not. Pretty face isn't just meant literally either. "Oh but they showed emotions there!!!" is also included.

>>280867729
No anon you're retarded for falling for the worst attempt at narrative gaslighting ever put to pen.
>demons bad because....uh
>THEY JUST ARE OKAY

demon's are bad because even their attempts at co-existence bring nothing but misery to the only retarded puppies that survived their genocide with more than 3 people
they're a parasitic and predatory species that hunt humans for sport and manipulate them, if you can't understand what is wrong with a psychopath that as a species acts on their impulses and revels in them you might be one

>>280867742
>Demons good because ... uh .... That super cute demon girl cried once ;_;

>>280853755 (OP)
>Why does this always happen?
White people are retarded

>>280862875
>For seconders, it makes absolutely no fucking sense the rest of the world didn't do a scorched earth crusade on demons for innately refusing to play ball.
They've been trying. You ever wonder why they didn't run into demons until they got to the North?
>And it's fucking ridiculous the lack of discrimination they face. Like they're literally demons. You know, the things we don't even have and yet have tons of fables about never trusting?
The story of Frieren itself is a fable about not trusting demons, yet people still trust demons. People are retarded.

>>280867804
they literally made a movie about that bullshit and the same kind of idiot you were replying to is probably one of them
>>280867812
>americans are brutalized and made destitute when they don't force themselves to double think
fixed it for you

>>280867580
Why do people pretend this guy is so attractive. The negro lips make him look like a caricature.

>>280868071
also the short knife ears, what is he some subspieces of elf with arrested development.

>>280853755 (OP)
A lot of people have had the privilege of never actually meeting a person who is unapologetically evil.
If you go through life without that, you can easily fall into the trap of believing that everybody can act on the categorical imperative if it's moral efficiency is proven to them.
Sadly, that it not possible for some people.

>>280868118
The ears are fine, but he's like a decent looking white guy with a good jawline whose face is ruined by his negro genetics.

>>280867823
Whatever assumptions help you sleep at night kid

>>280853755 (OP)
Why don't demons breed with humans to create a more capable lifeform?

>>280868511
Maybe it's possible but there is no reason to assume it is so this line of thinking should be dropped as serious consideration unless the mangaka chooses to implement it.
Implications could be fun to speculate about though, would a half demon leave a corpse when killed or dissipate into mana?
Perhaps they'd break down into a foam or jelly like puddle of biomass.

>>280868511
>>280868629
They are a completely different species, far removed actually, they just look similar because they co-evolved. Like a shark and a killer whale, look similar and live in the the same environment but one is a fish and the other a mammal

Best girl will give demon science lesson about it all in s2

>>280868708
the word you're looking for is "convergent", they evolved convergently also mammals are a much fish as they are eukaryotes

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/yyeDgBm1Du8

The frieren mirror from the second exam looks redeemable
Why did frieren and fern kill her??

>>280869234
The world doesn't deserve 2 Frierens.

>>280866978
Nah, if demons ("mazoku", the usual isekai term) were Jews then family would be super important to them, supporting and promoting one another too.

please remember the difference between sentience and sapience

>>280864146
Aura was afraid of dying
Heh.
She cried because she lost her pride, lost by her own curse for the one thing Demon society is built on: being subjugated by the stronger.

You wouldn't survive in Frieren universe.

>>280866921
Ha ha. Yeah.

>>280865420
>>280868708
When I think about Solitär I think about breaking those cute little horns when I'm breed-raping her and you should too.

>>280870017
I thought it was because she regretted being written by a total hack. In “reality” Aura would have run the very moment she saw Frieren; she should have KNOWN that she stood no chance against a mage who faced the Maou and who had beaten her once already. There’s no reasonable explanation for why a demon of her years would behave so foolishly. It’s simply because the writer wanted Frieren to have her epic isekai own of the arrogant-but-actually-much-weaker loser enemy who existed literally only for that scene to take place.

Also, the reason why there were only empty suits of armor even though Aura’s magic commands humans not pieces of metal is because the writer (or editor) thought about the scene and decided that Frieren couldn’t even have the APPEARANCE of acting aggressively against innocent humans.

>>280857458
Demons hate all sapient beings not just humans, Frierens explanation is probably how elves tried to make sense of them in the ancient past

>>280870185
That's a very complicated way to admit you're wrong and don't understand anything.

It’s astounding how the concept of “the bad guys”, something children intuitively understand when they first watch Saturday morning cartoons, eludes grown literate adults when they talk about this manga.
>An evil race of demons? Preposterous. No creature could be inherently evil in a fantasy setting. I will have to use every ounce of my media literacy to find the author’s true intent.
>It can’t be… Despite my searching, I haven’t found a single panel depicting the demons as sympathetic. Has the author forgotten to include the dramatic twist?
>Forgive me, professor. Just this once I will have to go Super Media Literate!
>AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
>I see! At last I see! The demons are the true marginalized group! We need not search the narrative for the characters themselves are biased!
>It was a hard fought battle, but I’ve once again come to the conclusion that the humans were the real monsters. As always.

>>280866024
>She didn't know that that would be "giving it up".
I pretty much agree with that, part of the question was also why she would do it. Why even care about the mother enough to do anything about her, or care for what she cares about. It's not like the mother was causing her detriment in anyway, so what she wants her kid back. Why even "waste" the energy in killing the family to appease that lady. Her feelings matter little to the demon. This of course is only speaking to if Demons really are selfish creatures, if they aren't it makes sense why she did what she did.

>>280870859
It's difficult to try and analyze the motivations of non-humans from the perspective of a human. Why does a lion kill the children of other males? Does it feel hate or disdain? Does it feel like it's children may not get enough to eat if they survive? No, it does it because it's its instinct. There are evolutionary reasons for that instinct but they are irrelevant to the lion. The demon was a child so you can't assume there was any rationality behind it. You can only really think about what it means for demon society. They have a strong sense of hierarchy so maybe the child just assumed the mother to be in a superior position for the moment and bringing gifts could improve her own.

>>280870175
She'd be the one breed-raping you

what would her stance be on demons?

The demons could either operate on instinct (unlikely), which is what the writing is pushing, or have enough mental capacity to understand their surroundings and communicate.

Now the issue is that instinct based mimicry would not create a culture or allow exchanging information. Both are present with demons.

A very good example is the first demon calling for "mother", if it was just instinct she would not have replied "it's what humans do" instead of repeating "mother".

>>280874442
Back when that flashback happened, demons grew to understand people hesitate when they utter words like "mother", but it didn't actually understand why. While the series is taking place, almost 80 years after that scene occurred, they grew more efficient in manipulating people, being able to comprehend what drives humans but being unable to actually feel those things. The series does not state that demons actually feeling emotions and genuinely getting along with humans is impossible, but that the path to that evolution would take too long, cost too many lives and generally not be worth it.

>>280853755 (OP)
That’s human nature to want to believe in someone else, especially if they look human and can seem to communicate.
Plus it seems like one of those things that a fair amount of people won’t believe until they experience it themselves.

>>280874442
Instinct is your genes and unconscious experience expressing themselves without words. Everyone has it. Humans can reflect on it and decipher it. It's a skill that grows with age, experience and intelligence. Why did the demon child have the instinct of mimicking humans? It's clearly not smart enough for consciously deceiving someone since she explained her reasoning right away.

>>280865433
>A being with consciousness will always have an option of denying their programming.
Demons never do this, though. They're consistent in their behavior and have been for over a thousand years.

>>280866921
Every hero has their kryptonite

>>280866803
Humans forgetting these lessons over time relies on the mistaken belief that it is really hard to foster violent hatred on a societal level, and this is simply not true. It would be child’s play to convince the population of a medieval society to completely revile a group, especially if there was actually a good reason.

>>280860009
>>280860864
If the elves weren't the equivalent of shut ins and actually contributed to society that future could be possible

>>280853755 (OP)
The demons don’t make sense.
>they don’t raise their young, yet somehow young demons learn language and skills
>they mimic humans to eat them, but don’t need to eat humans to live
>they evolved to be this way, but not out of any express need, as stated above
>they lack the reasoning to even understand humans in a dispassionate manner, but have enough reason and intellect to conduct complex scientific endeavors and invent new fields of magic
They look less like an evolved species and more like magical homunculi created for the express purpose of attacking humans. I wouldn’t be surprised if we learn that they were the creation of some malevolent deity all along.

>>280870579
>claims to be adult
>atill thinks comically evil Saturday morning cartoon villain are compelling characters
Ok buddy, keep bitcing and whining how villains and demons in other media doesn't subscribe to your simple-minded black and white morality

>>280878622
Extremely charismatic saturday morning cartoon villains are sublime however.

>>280866099
>bro no one in frieren emotes
>actually i can totally see demons emote xd
>im contradicting myself.. this must be a flaw in the writing

>>280863965
>Aes Sedai
They also have bloodthirsty supersoldier guardian warriors

>People online complain that obviously evil, irredeemable villains are always ugly/disgusting/disfigured
>Make the obviously evil, irredeemable villains pretty and hot
>People suddenly jump to defend them
People are fucking retarded.

>>280853755 (OP)
This entire anime's support is culture war retardation. The writing is shit and contradictory. Nobody would support this generic crap otherwise if it wasn't for the demon discussion.

>>280853755 (OP)
>there are STILL people who believe that you can be nice to them and they'll be nice to you, both in and out of universe
This is not simply a factor of dumb liberal ideology, you always have humans doing a stupid thing to continue testing if its still stupid or not. If humans could control or work with demons there would be huge advantages so the human that figures it out would become quite powerful or wealthy. So the evolutionary cost as a species to continue having a tiny number of humans that will kill themselves trying is trivial compared to the potential reward and thus the species continues producing such individuals.

>>280853755 (OP)
>there's no way the author would make such a boring race in her manga, in the year 2025, even Tolkien's orcs had minute

>>280862765
Demons could just work like sharks, they're apex predators that give live birth but the off spring need no parental care and are independent the moment they exit the womb. Reminder that demon sex is the purest form of love because it's purely instinctual for the sole purpose of procreation.

>>280879014
>This entire anime's support is culture war retardation
Might seem that way inside you little bubble but not, not even close
The show (and manga) is very popular in Japan now, literally nobody there is having any demon discourse since it's nothing new to have evil demons that are irredeemable
Frieren is also very popular in China and most of east Asia actually.

The only people having any kind of demon discourse are retarded Americans on twitter.com

>>280874442
Yes but that scene had NOTHING to do with explaining how demons think, and EVERYTHING to do with giving the protagonists the required moral cover to kill her. Naturally, a demon in her position would quietly wait until her watchers went away. Failing that, ie, if there was a mistake, she would have LIED when confronted, not innocently tell her people about to kill her why they can kill her. But having her act realistically is a no-go because Himmel’s group won’t stay there forever and the audience will be left with the impression that “demons can be good”. She can’t lie or try another play at emotional communication because that wouldn’t satisfy moral cover requirements and the plot would have to go through a process of learning the truth like a detective manga and the manga creator didn’t want to spend time on that. The manga simply wanted a clear, cartoonish expression of “demons are bad”, present the required moral cover and finally the death of the demon. The reason for drawing the demon as a young girl was to try and present it as an edgy scene, only to trip itself predictably over moral cover requirements. That is SO common in JP fiction as a whole it’s amazing I have to even point it out.

>>280853755 (OP)
Funny how the in-universe demon explanation has the same talking points from mein kampf

>>280879191
The demons are contradictory and poorly written. That's the main problem.

>>280879191
My only point of contention with the demons is Frieren claiming that they evolved to be the way they are. I could accept them being created to be evil, but evolving sapience in order to hunt a sapient creature is the most retarded thing imaginable. Do we see any talking sapient tigers in the real world? What about wolves? Are the birds that can mimic human speech suddenly obtaining the ability to understand what they are mimicking? The development of higher cognition is extremely demanding and doesn’t make sense in this case.

ALSO, I strongly believe that the reason why Frieren mazoku are drawn as human-likes and not as more traditional isekai mazoku is that the artists is better at drawing humans. Qual is a normal-looking mazoku, but it’s been nothing but human-likes since. It’s just a limitation of the creator.

>>280853755 (OP)
There are women out there right now that would unironically pick the bear.
90% of humanity's problems is caused by someone somewhere begin fucking stupid.

>>280854651
You probably think all chameleons turn green when nobody is looking huh?

>>280879280
The demons in Frieren are mazoku, they are just like beings derived from Japanese folklore.
But I shouldn't be surprised that national history, culture and mythology are difficult concepts for the American mind to comprehend

>>280879397
>sapient creatures can't hunt other sapient creatures
>examples he draws are lacking humans
How do you explain the parasitic behavior of jews or the cannibal tribes in africa? There are several races of humans who did not evolve the same level of empathy for similar looking things as whites did. Whites are pretty much an exception. Hell even with whites wars have played a major role although the argument is weaker there.

>>280879596
That's not what the problem is.
>>280854651

>>280867287
>demons are just badly written.
>meanwhile we have irl jews that act in the exact same way as anon here >>280867265 described
You don't even know how OUR world works.

>>280867485
Do you even know what a cuckoo bird is?

>>280853755 (OP)
No one knows, basically.
Frieren and some other adventurers who fought against the demon king know from experience. The rest of the people who encountered a demon in any capacity didn't survive.
Demons in general don't let any human live, ever. Qual was oneshotting human mages for years before the hero party tricked him, and humanity developed their spells around it only after Frieren saw zooltrak and lived to tell the tale.
So you let a demon live with you because he looks and acts human in every way and you're already comfortable with the existence of demihuman races like elves and dwarves. Then a week later it just blows up your village in 5 minutes and carries on to the next one.

>>280879629
That post just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the world of Frieren, mazoku and evolution
Physiological triats are not something creatures turn on and off

>>280879627
The demons aren’t the same species as humans, though. They are a result of convergent evolution, a convergence that could never happen. If you are ALREADY a sapient creature, you can go hog wild and start hunting your own with impunity. What would be weird and idiotic would be if a species of big cat that was particularly good at mimicking the sound of a human female in distress to lure human prey somehow springboarded from this strategy into a transformation into bipedal humanoids of equivalent sapience to humanity.

>>280879397
>obtaining the ability to understand what they are mimicking?
Demons don't though. Or at least inconsistently don't, which is my problem. The demons would be better if they aren't shown talking to each other in private, because at least according to their description they shouldn't. Their interactions with each other are controlled by aura dick measuring contests and language is a tool for tricking humans, so they should just instinctively know the pecking order and be too independant to really want to talk with each other. Because of this it creates ambiguity in their stated attributes.

>>280853755 (OP)
Stop being antisemitic

>>280879822
There were various hominids that were not homo sapians sapians that existed alongside us. Because they share the same niche they were out competeted in one way or another leaving only us, but our genetic history has hallmarks of admixture with these other hominid species. The most famous of which is neanderthals, but there were others.

>>280879822
>What would be weird and idiotic would be if a species of big cat that was particularly good at mimicking the sound of a human female in distress to lure human prey somehow springboarded from this strategy into a transformation into bipedal humanoids of equivalent sapience to humanity.
Yeah, that's a really weird and idiotic example. Clearly in Frierens world multiple sapient species evolved and from our real world we know that sapient species can hunt each other so what is your problem? Gonna complain about orcs next because they also shouldn't have evolved to hunt other sapient creatures in most fantasy settings?

>>280867623
He just did. You fucking retards just don't know how to deconstruct this anime properly so you shit retarded takes out of your asses thinking your smart as fuck but in reality you make absolute retards out of yourself.
The whole point of demons like these in stories is to make them feel alien and distant. Showcasing every intricacy of their nature would strip away their aura of mystery and danger.
Lots of amateur writers are autistic in the same way you are, focusing so much on world building that they forget to write an actually INTERESTING story, filling entire pages with exposition but not pushing the story in any way.
If you want a concept of a structured and thoroughly explained demonic society then fuck off from this board, go to /x/ and ask them about Goetia.

>>280879927
They ran in parallel, it was not a convergence. What are you trying to get at here? As far as we can tell, the demons in Frieren and the humans in Frieren are not at ALL closely related to one another. The demons are treated as if they sprang forth from an incredibly distant genealogy, which makes their intense convergence on humanoid traits really strange. It’s not strange that there were multiple species of hominids.

>>280880020
The very concept of covergent evolution indicates that not closely related things, its your fault for claiming this at the species level and thus the hominid example exists. Crows, dolphins, elephants, pigs, cephalapods, etc... are all various levels of intellegent though none match humans. Are you going to say all those things are related since intellegence apparently can only be evolved once among closely related organisms?
There are evolutionary pressures for why traits evolve, like there has been something approximating a cougar for tens of millions of years, even if the thing that fulfilled that role was a crocodile at one point.

The Demons are magic entities programmed to kill people.

>>280880187
All of those things you mentioned are related, just to varying degrees. And I know, it’s just that the show provided no clear example of why an ambush predator that uses mimicry to lure victims would trend toward sapience and total mimicry of a SINGLE one of its many potential food sources - a source of food that is exponentially more risky to hunt than simpler animals. All I’m saying is that it looks like something unnatural had a hand in creating them, I’m not even denigrating the show, I’m just saying that the characters within it might be wrong.

Seems like some of you were not paying attention during Professor Solitair's evolutionary biology lecture

>>280879822
>What would be weird and idiotic would be if a species of big cat that was particularly good at mimicking the sound of a human female in distress to lure human prey somehow springboarded from this strategy into a transformation into bipedal humanoids of equivalent sapience to humanity.
Evolutionary arms races are a real thing that result in extremely ridiculous adaptations due to one species constantly trying to outdo the other and vice versa. Mimics in particular can become borderline flawless if enough pressure is placed on them. (See pic related) A theoretical human predator wouldn't "springboard" straight from mimicking sounds to being a sapient humanoid, it'd start millions of years prior with a predator that mimics the calls of primates. Then as primates get smarter and form stronger social bonds, pressure is placed on the mimics to create more convincing acts if they want to stay fed. The predator may start walking upright a short time after human ancestors do, then start looking more human in response to apes shifting into human features. It's a snowball effect that only get more and more drastic as time goes on. Also, all of this is assuming a completely realistic world equivalent to our own, Frieren has fictional elements like magic that could also play a role in this transformation.

>>280880444
Orcas and sharks are really not that different when you squint at them, though. Obviously they arrived at their destinations from two wildly different paths, but sharks are not attempting to blend in to orca pods and destroy orca civilization from within… they’re both just large aquatic predators that occupy similar niches. The same cannot be said of demons and humans. The analogy is bad.

>>280880444
demons don't even leave behind bodies

>>280879927
Mate you need to get rid of the idea that all homo sapiens alive today are the same subclass. That's generic "the whole world is a happy family" hippy bullshit brainwashing.
A greyhound and a poodle are both canis familiaris but my God man, they are not the same sub-species.

>>280880444
Another point to make.
"Science" does not actually and never will know if mammals came from land or sea first.

In any case I am going to declare Frieren Demon arguers jewish/communist stupidity and tricks.
Nobody is so retarded they don't understand the premise involved or the magic-demons of the Frieren universe.

Don't reply to them.

>>280880334
Manga says the demon king believes in evolution.
It's explained in a silly way, but basically they work like some sort of ant colony. They have a pecking order and some understanding of protecting each other, but other than that all bets are off. They eat humans because their unnamed ancestors did and that's where the tendency to mimic behavior that triggers human compassion comes from. They descend from mimics basically.
Who knows how you go from that to a super intelligent magical beast, I guess it's one way to develop intelligence for a non-social animal.
It's not that bad. Technically a human could be vegan and survive but we do instinctively crave meat so of course we farm animals and such, and our ancestors also did that. It's a niche like another in a fantasy world.

>>280880444
As much as I love her DFC and trolling, my favorite part of Solitar is definitely her sheer biology autism.

>>280880334
>something unnatural had a hand in creating them
It is unnatural, they are based on this >stories involving monster that eat people have existed since the dawn of time across all cultures

>>280880444
Using real scientific concepts to justify the inconsistent/bad worldbuilding is the problem here

>>280880616
Exactly. All I want is for the characters in the story to acknowledge that and move on instead of aping the idea of evolution. It’s dumb.

Everyone here is talking about absolutes when solitar herself expressed human emotions by being sad when her friends keep dying. If she was a true psychopath she wouldn't give a shit but the demons themselves are slowly learning how to coexist. Frieren doesn't think they can learn quick enough before humanity goes extinct even though elves are on the same trajectory just more ahead. I think the author will toy with the idea of the demons learning more because when frieren went back in time recently solitar and the gang realized they will die in the future and will make more effort to continue their advancements

>>280854651
based observant anon. The frieren mangaka is a hack. And people still slurp their slop. Madness.
>>280867265
actual cope comment

No one would have a problem if it just dropped the whole biology/evolution thing and just kept them as purely magical creatures

>>280880572
Are the communists in the room with us presently?

>>280880745
High probability.

>>280880686
Normally you can't exactly wait around for your natural predator to evolve into herbivorism, to be fair. There would have to be some sort of magical shenanigan but maybe one of them could redeem themselves, eventually.

>>280880703

That's even dumber, though?

They're just turbo mimics, evolution has made them convincing instead of just contrivance. It's all easy to understand.

They're basically Gen AI people.

>>280880775
How scary!

>>280879397
We evolved to hunt big animals roast their flesh for protein absorption.
The demons eat entire villages at a time so we're not so different.

>>280880678
The first creature is unnatural, that's why they call them monsters. But then it evolved.

>>280880798
The whole issue ppl have is that its more contrivance than convincing. If just slapping on scientific terms is convincing enough for you, congrats >>280880627

>>280853813
I would become the strongest mage in existence just to rape cute demon girls before killing them

>>280853755 (OP)
It's like trying to domesticate animals. Some can be domesticated, some can't.

>>280881068
>ppl
It's really all just you, isn't it?

>>280880798
Or like animals that mimic being other things.
You see a being with emotions and capable of rationality, but it's just an evolutionary farce to lure you in.

>>280881384
Are you pretending to be blind or illiterate itt?

>>280854651
Because human speech is better than grunting and growling at each other you retard.

Also they don't act the same amongst themselves as they do in front of humans. They don't act like have a family nor do they try to get sympathy from their fellow demons because it's useless.

>>280878257
Widespread hatred comes into and out of fashion. People couldn't keep expelling jews if they didn't also keep letting jews back in.

>>280853755 (OP)
Posted it again award

>>280853755 (OP)
>there are STILL people who believe that you can be nice to them and they'll be nice to you, both in and out of universe

Nobody gives a fuck about that. Demons are hot that's it.

>>280853755 (OP)
Frieren demons suck. If you go for true evil, make them incomprehensible forces that mortals cannot kill, not predators that take advantage of their prey's innate empathy. That's not evil; just nature.

>>280870859
>Why even care about the mother enough to do anything about her, or care for what she cares about.
She felt hate from the mother, and knows enough (instinctively) that hate leads to violence leads to death.
Ironically she failed to know that violence against the guy to take the daughter would lead to more hatred. Because she was lacking the ever-present hatred which her instincts responded to.
It's a great scene because it really drives home that, at least inexperienced demons, are instinct driven only and completely lack the knowledge of the effects of their actions.

>>280871109
>Why does a lion kill the children of other males? Does it feel hate or disdain?
It instinctively knows that females, lacking children now, will go into heat to have more children, this time his.
Humans can murder without hatred as well.

>>280882390
Virgin frieren demomimics vs Chad dungeonmeshi demon

>>280871109
I'm going with annoyance. The only reason anyone puts up with babies is instinctive good feeling via cuteness. If you don't feel that for other people's babies, and you're not afraid of revenge, there's no reason not to eliminate the screaming little shits.

>>280880588
>They descend from mimics basically.

>be frieren
>fucking demon mimics REEEEE
>see regular mimic
>brb gonna get nom'd
Frieren just misses the old ways.

>>280879259
Exactly this.

At a basic level, if Demons are capable of intelligence and reasoning, or even just pure selfishness, their behavior makes no sense. Even a complete sociopath with zero regard or understanding of others is capable of blending into society by learning simple cause and effect.

A Demon that lies and mimics humans only to advance it's own selfish agenda, ultimately should just live the lie so much that they understand how to navigate human society without provoking any possible threat to themselves. This is especially true because Demons don't actually need to feed on humans in order to live, therefore their incentive to kill humans is not very high. Even a wild dog can understand conditioned principles of consequence, and a rat won't press a button that only shocks them with no reward.

But that's not the point, really. Because then the Demon child would just continue to lie, and would neglect behaviors that obviously threatened her own life for no gain.

>>280853755 (OP)
Just treat them like robots

Rule 1: a demon must never harm a human being
Rule 2:a demon must prioritize it's
Own self preservation as long as it does not conflict with the first law
Rule 3: a demon must follow the orders of any human so long as it does not conflict with the first or second laws

>>280864108
Frieren would slap that brat so many times his face would stop looking like one.

>>280853755 (OP)
>Why does this always happen?
You realize this happens in our world every day, right? Don't make me say it, you already know who I'm talking about.

>make villain-trope of your story a careless, abusive, lying monster
>without fail always behaves on self needs first and acting on a whim as an instinct

Only two types of people have a question regarding the demons.
1. An idiot who can't see and understand narrative
2. Someone who has a personal problem with the message of "this thing is bad" being spread.

Now if you'll excuse me I just ate a half dozen butter fried, all beef, cheese and ranch and scorpion pepper sauce topped "glizzys" as you kids say, and I need to get to the toilet before I shit my pants.

>>280853755 (OP)
All humanoid shaped creatures with some form of communication have to be all the same, or you start asking questions.

>>280880531
>Orcas and sharks are really not that different when you squint at them, though
The only commonality they share is their generic body plan, which is optimized for fast energy-efficient movement in bodies of water. Their bones are literally not even made of the same material. Killer whales hunt great white sharks for sport.

>>280880572
>"Science" does not actually and never will know if mammals came from land or sea first.
All terrestrial life with internal skeletons evolved from some retarded lungfish-mudskipper-like creatures. This insight is based on comparative studies of the fossil record and augmented with carbon dating and some DNA analysis.

>>280880627
To be fair, everyone who doesn't understand biology to a high school level deserves to be beguiled endlessly until they die.

>>280884358
>this insight is based on
No concrete evidence that can be experientially verified.
You have zero way to prove to me what was going on 1.5 billion or 800 million or whenever years ago. And you never will have a way.
Will I agree with some things, maybe out of wishful thinking, maybe out of convienence, maybe out of society's pressures?
Maybe.

But the difference between me, and a bug like you, is I know none of these claims are provable.

>demons aren't evil because we have less than five examples of them acting slightly differently than other demons
Cool, would you take the chance that every demon you encounter fits into the <1% that might not immediately kill you and try to befriend it, or would you kill it on sight to be safe?

>>280883741
>his
her

>>280884194
>Glizzy in; Glizzy out
-kurt vonneguet

>>280884576
It's 0% because if there was a demon like that, it'd know that it is better off living in the middle of nowhere minding its own business.

>>280884447
>>280884447
>No concrete evidence that can be experientially verified.
Yeah, there just are some things that cannot simply be discussed with people without a basic understanding of geology and atom theory. If you want to understand the nautral world around you then you need to do the prework. Otherwise your basic perception will be limited to cars go brrrr, computers go beeep, dogs go miauw etc.

>>280880798
>mimics
that's a funny thought, frieren is willing to bet on a 1:99 odds chance that the mimic detecting spell is wrong but she'll die on the hill that every demon is irredeemably evil and worthy of being murdered with prejudice. though it's fair in that no mimmic ever slaughtered her whole village, her parents her relatives etc.

>>280875401
>hurrr the hoomyns are fewer now bcuz of u :(
and???
what's so wrong with that exactly?
why does everyone want to protect DA HOOMANS all the time
Frieren isn't even a human herself. In fact her thousand years of history should have taught her that humans are worthless and their numbers should be thinned.
they're not unlike the pigs and chicken they eat
In a world where weak humans perish, superior ones will have a chance to thrive. Those superior humans are the ones you think of when you want to protect humanity, but their exceptional nature excludes them from the human race. superior humans are superior because nature tested their mettle. they were not babysat by elves.
humans should be run through the grinder all the time for their own sake
is it philosophical pet adoption, like taking in a little animal and protecting it from nature's just and fair laws because it's a wee puppy? Why doesn't Frieren think about her massive elf ego instead of DA HOOMEN

>>280885510
Really living and breathing the rick and morty pasta when the only extent of your knowledge is "mimicry is cool"

>>280886081
what pasta? carbonara? if you find the darwinian theory on the origin of species implausible, there are countless books discussing it, there's a chapter on it in every biology textbook they make teenagers read and if you lack the attention for that im sure there are tiktoks exposting on the idea. You don't have to believe in the decay of atoms, or DNA, tectonic plates, the curvature of the earth, the universal applicability of arithmetic, or the stratification of layers of sediment, if that's not a part of you're life that's whatever, but then don't at me on 4chan.org when im happily chatting about some implication or nuance thereof. im not a high school teacher, learn the basics youself, or just post about ferns fat flabs or the autistic loliwaif demon with a psychology phd that thinks she's a biologist.

>>280886081
>telling someone else they have rick and morty energy right after spewing the phrase "the difference between me, and a bug like you"
Ironic.

>>280883494
That's exactly what they did with Macht and he almost wiped out a whole country.

>>280860009

> It's hard for humans to achieve that level of domination to enforce the rule of law on demons.

To fight demons, we created demons of our own.

>>280885618
retard

>>280853755 (OP)
wat

>>280853755 (OP)
its common occurence bro

>>280886081
>>280887560
That was a different anon, wannabe-smartypants dipshits.

I've made several points in this thread about the general stupidity of people's perceptions and you both hit the mark for it.

>>280891781
Good for you, headass-kun.

>>280879136
He needed a demon stalker.

>>280853755 (OP)
>>there are STILL people who believe that you can be nice to them and they'll be nice to you, both in and out of universe
>Why does this always happen?
commies and kikes

>>280853755 (OP)
>>there are STILL people who believe that you can be nice to them and they'll be nice to you, both in and out of universe
The drama in the show only works if the writer can effectively instantiate those lines of thinking within viewers. Which is to say, the reason that happens is because the writer is PURPOSELY trying to make viewers think that.
So, actually, the viewers who wonder about that and stuff are engaging with the show on a deeper level than the retarded viewers who brainlessly discard that possibility from the get go.
To put this differently. The demons are evil, but they try to convince the people that they're not evil in order to swindle them and therefore it's necessary to try to convince the viewer of that as well in order for the viewer to be convinced. If the show failed to convince the viewers altogether then the viewers would be sitting around complaining that the show doesn't make sense because no one would fall for the demon's lies, exactly like brainlet OP.

>>280881509
Man, it's crazy that owls would evolve to mimic that harmless butterfly.

>>280867482
I've seen a version of this image with schizos, sociopaths, and normies, and I wish I had saved it cause now I can't find it.

>see frieren thread
>scroll through and view cute images
>don't read autism essays
>close thread

So what's the difference between elves and demons is Frieren?

>>280853755 (OP)
Because this is a great case of altruism and virtue signaling getting you fucking killed.
Something I wish the Vinland Saga author would tell us but instead the fucker insisted that there was nothing wrong with it.

>>280853755 (OP)
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Hope you fags are reposting this fucking EVERYWHERE on the internet.
Zoomies are gonna have a fucking field day with this.

>>280893301
Writing isn't Frieren's strong suit anyways, it's a lot more enjoyable when you ignore it altogether and just enjoy the memes and cute girls.

>>280893441
that's what im talking about
every frieren thread some faggot is like
>ummm the writing is not good sweetie
i dont care.. and i think it's quite good desu
but thanks for the (you)

>>280867482
The problem here is that the demons in Frieren are not secretive at all and their attempts at subversion are as shallow as a puddle. The demons claiming that they are not evil when a human asks if they are evil (shortly before the demon attacks them) is not the demon enacting some grand master plan, it's the most basic of deceptions. They are completely retarded and incapable of acting in ways that would allow them to actually properly blend in to human societies for any length of time and it's unclear as to why that is.
>they're just SO powerful that they don't need to blend in
That's really been working out for them over the past 1000 years, huh? None of that supposed power helped them win the war they started. They really do seem to be on par with the intelligence of lower animals because they just cannot fucking learn any lessons from the infinite amount of mistakes they make. It's an endless cycle of retardation flimsily justified by them pwning defenseless human peasants (look at how powerful we are!!! yeah!!!!).

>>280893301
This.

>>280853755 (OP)
Because they practice usury and child sacrifices and they blend in, giving the impression of humanity while being entirely demonic

>>280894028
He would have expelled the demons.

>>280853755 (OP)
For predators that use human looks and emotions they are REALLY REALLY stupid and bad at their jobs.

>>280853755 (OP)
Projection. Humans project their own qualities into other people, animals and even inanimate objects. We cannot comprehend that some beings might not have a shred of empathy

>>280853813
never be nice

>>280853755 (OP)
its literally the same thing as niggers irl and yet people want to pretend its not that way

>>280853755 (OP)
Learning is hard

>>280882390
Most of the sages in Frieren are pure fucking evil as their motivation is
>Lol its fun