Thread 281395338

>watching anime for 10 years
>still don't know japanese

Anon no baka

you can't learn japanese with anime

>>281395929
Nandato? Usodaro K-kisama. Minna nihongo wakarimashita kono yaro.

it can't be helped

>>281395338 (OP)
I've been watching anime for 30 years, reading manga for over 20, and playing videogames raw for just as long, still don't know a SINGLE moonrune.

>>281395338 (OP)
It's better to not fully understand the language. Once you do, you will realize how cringy the writing and voice acting is.

>>281396285
This is just a poor cope that EOPs tell themselves to justify their laziness

>>281396285
You are cringe

>>281396318
world would be a better place if everyone spoke anime japanese

>>281396285
>you will realize how cringy the writing
You don't need any knowledge of japanese to know when it's cringe. And if you actually knew the language you'd knew that it varies from work to work.
>voice acting is.
Shut the fuck up dubfag/moeshitter

>>281396251
Not even
>ロ
or
>リ

>>281395338 (OP)
>been watching anime for ~10 years
>can understand what's being talked about if I look away from the screen for a few dozen dialogues just from my nip vocabulary
>still can't read or write hiragana or katakana

>>281395338 (OP)
Just watch dub, lol.

>>281396367
Your mom.

>>281395338 (OP)
I was the same. Then I started actually studying and passed JLPT N1 roughly 2.5 years later.
Years of watching anime does not teach you japanese, but it speeds learning up a ton once you actually put in the effort. Especially the listening parts of the exam were stupid easy, which seems to be something people who did not watch a ton of anime seem to struggle with.

I used to lament not knowing a foreign language. But then I realized that I don't really care about other cultures

>>281396405
You can learn Kana in about a week
https://djtguide.github.io/learn/kana.html
I can't understand Japanese for shit but I can read Kana fluently

>>281395338 (OP)
I've been watching for far longer than that, and I still can't speak Japanese. I've been learning though. There's a lot I still don't get, but I can pick up on some of the more basic, conversational stuff that I hear when watching anime now.

>>281395338 (OP)
If it makes you feel better I finally learned it after 15 years
you just need to learn the basics, and then watch with japanese subtitles and a tool for easy dictionary lookups. it's simple and rewarding.

i was learning, then mtl got gud and played thru a few untranslated titles. Realized its not worth learning for years just to play coom games. I already was doing what i set out to do. Also im ugly and have no desire to go to japan, write or speak just. I just wanted to coom and mtl helped me coom today, not in 2years

>>281395338 (OP)
I am ironically learning Japanese now with google translate so I can feed lines into AI-generated porn.
No, english lines won't do, it'll just be too funny instead of erotic without the foreign aspect acting as a filter.

>>281396693
being able to read proper japanese prose will make you nut like no other
mtl will never be a good replacement

>>281395338 (OP)
Subtitles exist for a reason. I don't even see them anymore all I see is blonde, red head, brunette.

>>281395338 (OP)
How is that even possible?

>>281395338 (OP)
>Watch anime for 10 years
>Learned the fundamentals of verbally communicating and reading some hira/kana runes
>Go to Japan
>Turns out Japan loves Italians
>They were more impressed by the Italian than the Japanese

>>281396285
This but my native language

>>281395929
Wrong. I have never "studied" Japanese, but I've been watching anime for 30 years now. For the past ~10 years I've been watching it raw.
Listening is the most natural way to learn a language. How do you think people learn their first language?

>>281395338 (OP)
Watch it without subs.

>>281398408
but you have to learn basic grammar first

>>281396168
I believe this is an insult

>>281396285
The opposite for me - when you hear the original voice lines AND instantly understand them you comprehend them in a different way. When you listen to the Japanese voices and read the subtitles you separate the meaning from emotion, the meaning comes with a delay, thus the impact of a character's line is lost. But when you understand it on the fly - the emotion and the meaning are in unity, delivering a better impact.
t. studied Japanese in the uni and my teacher was a huge weeb that loved Azumanga Daioh and encouraged us to watch anime to practice listening
>>281395338 (OP)
Try not to rely on subtitles too much, try to understand as much content without reading as possible

>>281395929
Omae wa mou, shindeiru.

>>281398431
grammar is emergent

>>281395929
You can it's just cringe and embarassing because my japanese is pretty much an amalgamation of shonen protagonists speaking, language ticks, pronouns, and all.

>>281395338 (OP)
My real gripe is i don’t know how to read so I can read the non-translated manga.

>>281395338 (OP)
>anime miru juu nen ni/アニメ見る十年間に
>nihongo mada wakaranai/日本語まだ分からない
There, now you know some Japanese

>>281396367
What an odd place for my favorite pixiv tag to come up...

>>281399905
I understand it too, but have problems with more difficult words/sentences

>>281395338 (OP)
haha...

>>281399960
>but have problems with more difficult words/sentence
That's just the dyslexia talking, what you gttoa try is baerknig dwon spimle phearss and ltteers and mmeorzie tehm utnil tehy bemoce sconed nutare and bluid from tehre.
It's that easy.

>>281396556
Could you share your method? I'm on n3 but I'm unsure how should I proceed, the usual books and shit take too long with very little progress. Did you use books, anki? Thanks!

>>281395725
english anon?

>>281395338 (OP)
Worry not, Anon, some americans have been americans for 30, 40 even 80 years and they don't know Hebrew at all!

>>281395338 (OP)
Don't worry, even if you make the most broken, pathetic attempt at speaking japanese, they will always say UEEEH! NIHONGO JYOZU! and then start speaking to you in English. The maddening part comes when you're fluent and they still do this anyway.

>>281396285
It's not though, I can understand Japanese just fine and don't cringe, but when English VAs try, that sounds cringier for some reason.

>>281401199
>The maddening part comes when you're fluent and they still do this anyway
You're not fluent. Your pronunciation is ass and they can't understand you.

>>281395338 (OP)
>Watching anime for 20 years
>Doesn't know Japanese
>Doesn't care
>Watches both dub and sub sometimes for the same show
Translation tech getting too good for me to bother learning anyways.

>>281401346
>Translation tech getting too good
And then suddenly, for no reason at all, paywalls everywhere

>>281401277
You're right, but there's also the issue with tones and regional dialect. My burgerland english has never been so much of an obstacle the last few years since I started learning. Feels like I'm mealy-mouthed and retarded because of it

皆は頑張ればきっと出来ます！私だって最初は全然ダメだったけど、今は文書を書けますようになりましたよ！ファイトです！

>Watch anime for 15 years, never learned nip
>Decide "fuck it"
>Spend the last year learning nip
>Can already read easier manga and watch easier anime with nip subtitles
If you've been watching anime for a long time you have a ton of unstructured knowledge in your brain that will rapidly be pieced together once you structure your language learning. You CAN learn Japanese.

>>281401674
honestly I just don't want to touch the alphabet

>>281401552
いいねええ

>>281401717
You sound like an evil scientist.

>>281401798
英語分からん。。。

>>281395338 (OP)
What's crazy is that if you spent even the slightest amount of effort learning basic grammar, like JLPT N5 stuff, then you would've automatically learned the rest after watching 10 years of anime. The only thing you really have to force yourself to study is kanji.

>>281396251
So you haven't watched that one samurai champloo ep

>>281398431
I passed N1 (60/60 on grammar/word knowledge) and spent maybe 4 hours total skimming grammar related topics at various stages of the learning process.

>>281395929
you can learn basics that will greatly help you understanding the moonrunes
t. been here since 2008 when /a/nons were expected at the end to be able to read moonrunes so I took it to the heart. Watching subbed anime improved my filthy ESL english a lot. Then watching RAWs then rewatch subbed. For me hearing is much better than reading while english was the other way around. I can understand a lot from raws but manga is sometimes horrible due to certain kanji that can change a lot of. Obviously I was learning to read with some online support since you can't do it from watching anime/mango alone. But it can help for sure

>>281401552
This was very nice and N4 friendly. Why can't the Japanese sentence structure always be this easy?

>>281402353
How did you make the transition from English subbed to raw?

dont worry, you're not missing out by not learning japanese

you do miss out not reading english lit

>>281402480
I watched anime like a maniac for like 4 years and then just texthooked FSN, looking up every word (also did Heisig before jumping into VNs but not sure I can recommend it).

Before I started reading I could still understand raws somewhat but my understanding really accelerated when I started to combine reading with raw watching. Then at some point I decided I'm just not going to watch anything subbed anymore and just rolled with it. I watched a shitload of anime for little girls in the earlier stages (as well as slice of life anime).

>>281402634
Audio books is also something that will bring massive improvement to listening skills (this applies to every language). But it's obviously not something you can use before you understand 95%+ already.

>>281402634
Okay that makes sense, I'm basically just starting the "anime for little girls" stage. For most shows I can understand the general flow but I struggle with more complex sentences/jargon. What do you think of watching with JP subs vs. completely raw?

>>281403027
Not him but just watch it raw, you watched English raw a long time ago and turned out alright. Watch Idol Precure and AiPri raw while you see plebs begging for subs.

>>281400126
Nothing special really.
My path was first doing Heisig in ~ 3 months for the kanji, then the Core decks for vocab (those were still popular back then, there are probably better ones around nowadays) followed by mining some more from VNs, video games and web novels/ebooks. My vocab deck has a total of 12k cards now. I switched the Heisig deck out for a Kanji writing deck with real japanese keywords eventually, but I've dropped that as well since it was just leeching time for no real benefit.

As preparation for the JLPT specifically, I bought all the Kanzen master N2 books plus a book with N2 mock tests.
But of those Kanzen master books, the vocab and Kanji ones were kinda useless because I had all that covered with Anki already and the listening one was good to get used to the format, but I did not really need it.
The grammar and reading ones were extremely valuable though.
For the N1 a year later, I only got the N1 versions of those two(which I definitely recommend) , plus two more books with N1 mock tests I did throughout the year.

>>281403079
I don't like the "you acquired english raw" argument because that's not necessarily the fastest or most optimal way to learn a language. Everyone agrees Anki/SRS is great because of how optimized it is for learning kanji if you understand the concepts and words in english already. Nobody would tell you to just crack open a JP-JP dictionary and stare at the moonrunes until everything clicks, it's better to have a logical progression, which I'm sure you agree with.

That being said, while watching raw is harder I can see the benefits for pure listening comprehension without the crutch of reading the subs.

>>281401244
>for some reason
https://youtu.be/ci8dIpNcyEY?feature=shared

>>281403174
Very much appreciated! I shall apply those methods. Thanks a lot for the book recommendation, I'll give them a try.

>>281403027
>JP subs vs. completely raw
I'd switch it up at times. Too much of each brings bad habits.
Over-reliance on text, leading to underdeveloped listening skills.

The other issue is that listning only can make you accept not understanding everything when you are "good enough", leading to stagnation.

Maybe full raw for the easiest stuff and nipsubs for hard shows.

Personally I prefer having nipsubs most of the time, I find it lowers the amount of concentration required.

>>281403027
>anime for little girls
Aikatsu S1
Pretty Rhythm, everything (Rainbow live is a good starting point).
Jewelpet Sunshine and Tinkle.
Precure, whatever you find appealing (HC always works).

>>281396628
I'm really bad with languages in general anon. I attended lessons for Japanese in univ but didn't attend more than 5 classes because the teacher was a fat lady and not a cute japanese woman
I am actually ESL but English is the language I am most comfortable with, and the one for which I have the best vocabulary.
My knowledge of my own mother tongue is downright shameful, I have extremely poor vocabulary. If I have to read anything I just take a picture or copy-paste it into google translate and read the English translation.
Despite sucking at my mother tongue, and being more comfortable with English, I still struggle to speak English.
My mother speaks and understands 4 languages, my grandmother speak 5.

>>281402406
Because you sound like an absolute retard if you use this begginer textbook construction irl

>>281405095
But anon I am an absolute retard

>>281404820
結局ファットピーポが嫌すぎて、今でも日本語をできないバカ外人のままですね。きゃにゃしい。

I'm just going to download Japanese.exe and upload it to my brain via NeuraLink™

>>281395338 (OP)
Kanji is useless.
Just learn the vocal language, you can do that within a year.
>>281402608
>you do miss out not reading english lit
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHA

>>281405406
it's called anki exe

>>281405269
She was not a very good teacher. She intimidated the students who asked questions and she had a very poor accent

>>281402608
>Monolingual retard can't japanese
>language is tard!!!111

>>281402608
>gyaru sluts in the class
>does nothing with them
Checks out.
Why even be a english teacher if you aren't fucking jk pussy?
>university
JD pussy then.

>>281402608
Its the same over most of Asia
We collectively neutered our college education in favor of having very difficult college entrance exams to filter out the retards.
Highschoolers study 16 hours a day but college students? 1 hour if they're ambitious

>>281405813
>Kanji is useless.
Reading manga/light novels are a big reason why people learn Japanese though and most still have a 6+ month lead time before the official translation gets released
Here's some real advice: Learn to read kanji. Skip learning to write kanji. Maybe that sounds obvious to anons, but you would not believe the number of Japanese learners spending hours a day writing kanji over and over again when they could use that time to learn to read new kanji/vocab.

>>281402608
This just sounds like an English professor malding over the fact that Japanese students correctly identified his class as worthless. All those kids are literally better off doing something real like searching for a job versus sitting there and listening to some foreigner bitch that they don't talk about abortion enough

>>281395338 (OP)
AHO KA?

>>281395929
Immersion learning is a thing.
And even if you aren't consciously turning off the subtitles and trying to learn the language by exposure, there's a couple Yuro studies that back up each other that individuals that watch subtitled English language media all have better English skills ( listening comprehension specifically appears to be effected) than those that don't.
I see no reason why that wouldn't hold for Japanese.

I think that understanding spoken japanese with romaji would be just a little harder than learning other Indo-European lanugage, so still doable, but learning moon runes would be a nightmare level, fucking hieroglyphics are clearer to understand

>>281410278
it's very satisfying though
i'm really just beggining japanese but even in english you don't really "read" words - you pattern match mostly on the beggining and the end of the word, and just skip over the middle

so our words are shapes too

>>281395338 (OP)
>watching anime for 30 years
>still don't know japanese

>>281410561
Yeah, but the difference is that latin alphabet is optimized. imagine that instead of creating numbers larger than 9 from 0-9 sign pool you use more graphic signs to represent numbers.
It's strange that at some point some japanese man didn't come to conclusion that it's so fucking inefficient to create that many graphic signs and didn't sit to create more optimized way of written communication.

>>281405813
How do you go about learning the vocal language?
I can read alright, can write but forget some kanji at times, but struggle a lot with forming natural sounding sentences and listening
Even though I most likely will never converse with a native speaker, the Japanese aren't too nice to me, I'd still like to understand what someone's saying without having to pause and rewind constantly

>>281411219
Listen to ahime and idol songs and reading romanji lyrics.
Memorizing your favorite songs is a good start.

>>281404568
Appreciate the recs. I just watched one ep of Aikatsu and understood everything but it made me want to blow my brains out, I think I'll just stick with being confused while watching harder stuff.

Learning japanese for anime sounds pretty dumb.

>>281410278
It kind of is, but one thing that isn't discussed much is that learning them is a skill that you acquire over time so while they start out being incredibly difficult, once you get over the initial hump it starts to get easier. And since a lot of resources for learning the language are going to be in text, it makes learning the language overall easier.
At the very least learning kana is 100% undoubtedly worth it since you can learn those in a few hours of playing a matching game. But it's also not sunk cost making people say that kanji is useful. Looking at a block of Hiragana/Romaji is just a mess of squiggles that the more complicated kanji helps break down into much more easily understood blocks.

Not including kanji is like removing all the spaces and punctuation from English but much worse. It doesn't help that Japanese has far more homophones than english. The reason they have such weird forms of poetry and wordplay is because rhyming is not at all impressive in Japanese given how many words are the same sounds, and so having kanji to help specify also makes it easier.

>>281411349
not a fan of idol songs, I like few singer-songwriters though so I guess I'll start with some Ichiko Aoba songs
thanks for the suggestion

>>281403027
>What do you think of watching with JP subs vs. completely raw
if the show is harder then you should watch with subs
For example I'm watching ruri no houseki and barely understanding half of the mineralogy lingo they use, and wish I had subs so I could see the kanji.

>>281395929
SPBP

I wanted to learn JP but now that I work close to 60 hours a week, I no longer see the point. Why add untranslated shit to my backlog when my media consumption rate has plummeted?
Truly, "if you work, you die".

This entire
>just watch anime to learn japanese
>it works I know japanese
seems like elaborated bait. Well done, anon.

>>281410278
You know what, you could actually do this though

There are guides for grammar in romaji, so that step's easy
You could convert an initial frequency list anki set for the most common words into pure romaji and start with that too
Then you'd need some sort of into-romaji translator for japanese subtitles, this shouldn't be that hard to do considering what jpdb can already do with mpv - and some sort of interactive word lookup in romaji subtitles - also should be doable, modify what people currently do with yomitan and mpv to only display romaji and that's it

>>281395338 (OP)
you can literally just learn it with streams on youtube at this point

as opposed to some retarded fiddling with nico nico

>>281412082
it really is that simple
when your brain wants to understand something then it will do amazing things to figure it out
but if you give it a crutch then it will rely on that crutch as much as possible

>>281412032
anon you're destroying yourself

>>281410926
On the other hand, Japanese uses just about 3k kanji (unlike chinese which doesn't really limit itself), and there are about 3.8k emoji characters in unicode

I've been watching seasonal anime since 2011 and don't have any interest in learning the language, to be honest. I don't see why I would learn Japanese when the Japanese themselves won't be around for much longer and all their media will eventually be translated to English.

>>281395338 (OP)
I intentionally don't try to learn it. I already cringe when I hear jap talk outside of anime or music.

>>281395929
Wrong. I passed N1 by mostly just watching animu and reading manga. Translating manga helped too to force me to try to understand everything instead of gloss over things.

You do need some foundational listening skill and grammar that you can get easily from Pimsleur audio lessons. The rest was immersion.

>>281395338 (OP)
N-nani?!

>>281412082
I want to fuck Lily baker

>>281412085
what software is this?

>>281414391
this is in jpdb.io's labs, so you have to pay $5 on patreon to get it
I've just set it up so have no opinion yet

>>281414459
Thanks, I shall call you 師匠 from now on.

>>281405813
>Bear is a part of Canadian literary history.
kek

>>281395338 (OP)
Just use AI. It's basically native-level Japanese.

>>281395929
Korrraaaaaa!!!

>>281412643
The real reason you don't need to know Japanese is that in 10 years their entire language will be butchered English

>>281395338 (OP)
you're not austistic enough

by the time you learn japanese, can you say for sure that you'll still be interested in anime/manga/j-culture?

>>281415480
at this point I am more interested in learning Japanese than weebshit.

>>281415518
what for? normally it's the other way around

>>281415480
I asked myself this 10 years ago so I quit after a few months of learning. Now I can confidently say, yes, 100%.

>>281410926
Well they invented kana for that reason

>>281415941
Problem is that the combinatorics on the Japanese syllabary are really low. There are only as many morphemes as there are hiragana, plus intonated variants. English has a lot more possible combinations of letters that make different morphemes. So they need kanji to encode the meaning.

>>281410926
Well the Koreans did invent an alphabet and I imagine the Japanese and Chinese both found the idea of embracing a Korean invention so disgusting that they both decided to stick with hieroglyphs for a millennia

>>281412202
Not like I have much of a choice

If you want to learn Japanese you should start as early as possible.
By your 30s you'll be jaded as fuck and the only accessible anime to you as a beginner will be insufferable kiddy shit, which is probably more enjoyable when you're a teen or in your 20s and you're more open to retarded crap.

Imagine immersing during those first 200 hs on nothing but school romcoms and office dramas. Yeah, I'm speaking about my own experience as a late 30s old fuck.

>>281415293
In 10 years you'll be speaking mandarin, retarded fuck.

>>281418348
That's a given. Only retards like (you) waste their youth and don't acequire at least one or two cool skills.

>>281418685
>acequire
Maybe go back in time and learn proper typing and/or spell checking as one of your cool skills, asshole.

>>281406157
>oligrophrenic retard can't into reading
>image is tard!!111

>>281411219
Learn spanish

>>281410561
>>281411790
>>281412085
>jump through all these loops and hoops just to learn the language brah

>>281419072
Go back to your vidya games, talentless fuck!

>>281395338 (OP)
20 years here
just too much of a mentally ill loser to actually put in the effort to learn more than N5

I've never bothered focusing on actually understanding spoken Japanese so I still need subs (though it's not like I understand nothing) but I'm decent enough at reading since untranslated manga is a larger issue in my experience than untranslated anime.

>>281410278
I learnt all those kanji by reading shounen manga without even trying.