I fear I may be a conversational narcissist. Not a full-blown abusive person with NPD, but whenever I reflect back on a lengthy conversation, I feel self-conscious about how much I talk about myself and how little I ask about the other person. Here's the kicker though: it's far more pronounced with women (I'm a man). With other men, I find it much more natural to always stay on topic and keep my cards close to my chest, but with women, especially one-on-one, I become an open book within minutes, even with a perfect stranger.

I ask, because I'm not sure how much of a problem this really is. I know it's considered rude to talk about yourself all the time, but the thing is, women seem to really enjoy it, and tend to come back for more. Whenever I make an active attempt to steer the conversation towards informal, neutral small-talk out of politeness, they become noticeably less engaged.

I've always been told the stereotype that women can never shut up, but that stereotype doesn't really reflect my life, as I find women are very eager to listen and learn more about you as a man. I can go on and on for hours sometimes, prattling on about all kinds of stupid shit, like my philosophy, my passions, my hot takes, my past, my trauma (their eyes usually light up with this one), and they just listen intently with wide eyes without break, and just keep asking follow-up questions wanting to hear more. I know women often like to know as much as possible about guys, to the point when they can stalk your social media or scroll through your text messages, so I may be indulging them just as much as they are indulging me. I'm just wondering if this is a habit I should curb, since it's not exactly stoic, manly behavior. Maybe I should be more like Gary Cooper, you know, the strong, silent type.

For what it's worth, I have a strained, distant relationship with my dad, but my mom calls me multiple times every week to hear how I'm doing, so this might be learned behavior.

Relatable?

>>33356487 (OP)
You have ADHD. I could tell the minute you said “I feel self-conscious about how much I talk about myself.” And also when you (spoke in parenthesis to add more bonus content to your thoughts - every adhd does this.)

I also have adhd so I know my own kind when I see them.

Anyway no you’re not a conversational narcissist. That isn’t a real diagnostic at all. I get what you mean, but its not narcissism. Your adhd having ass is simply showing empathy in an adhd way. Thats why you talk about yourself. Not out of ego, but out of camaraderie, out of wanting to show someone

“Hey I know how that feels, I know what you mean, here is proof I know it (insert story about self), so here I want to make sure you dont feel alone or stupid. I care, I see you, I am paying attention.”

Thats all it is. Narcissists dont bother their ass with this motivation. Narcissists dont give a fuck about how someone else thinks or feels.

>>33356487 (OP)
>>33356553
>Cont

As for the being more talkative with the girls and oversharing with them and being an open book Vs. being more guarded with men, that’s self evident to you already.

You trust women more than men. You learned that from your upbringing. Your relationship to your male role model is strained. The relationship to the female example was warm and cozy.

You instantly assume women will be trustworthy just as mama. And you instantly assume men can possibly be a threat or confrontation, just as papa.

This is your subconscious just doing its simple logical routine of running the program called ‘familiarity.exe’. Thats normal. Its also out of your control. You dont consciously get to control it.

It comes with a problem though. Some men out there who you are guarding against could be of great help and support, but you’ll never know due to being guarded.

And some women out there are wicked, really wicked. Who know you trust women, who can smell your father issues, and will deliberately torture you for fun, who will ruin you because its a game to them. Sociopathic females, yknow. And you wont see it coming because you will instantly trust them, just for being a woman.

>>33356487 (OP)
Read books on establishing rapport. It's a learned skill. By the way, rapport doesn't necessarily mean conversationally creeping up on people; it as often is speaking in a direct and candid manner that your interlocutor might not have encountered before.

>>33356553
>Thats why you talk about yourself. Not out of ego, but out of camaraderie, out of wanting to show someone

Not OP, but If this is a sign of ADHD then I think I have it. My gf HATES when I say that to her when shes complaining to me about something I do/dont do right. I try to tell her that I empathise how she feels because I feel that way blah blah,

and she returns with "can you not make this conversation about you? im telling you a problem I have with you, i want you to listen to me and not try to say everything is relatable

>>33357512
Lmao damn. Yes, thats usually how it goes with me in relationships as an adhd myself. Took me forever to figure out why I talk like that, about feelings and hard topics, now I do. It was my way to show empathy in the only way I knew how.

And the reason it was the only way I knew how was because of how I was brought up. How adhd influenced how people treated me. Parents, school teachers, classmates, everyone. Everyone would always nail me to a fuckin cross for my mistakes. For what I didnt do right, or what I dont do enough. For my lack of focus and inattention, etc.

At the time, I had no idea why I was mentally unfocused and a bit broken. No Idea that I even was. I was just a kid who constantly made mistakes and got punished for them, over and over and over.

Eventually I normalized having to over-explain myself, non stop. “excuses” people called them. I was only trying to explain why I couldn’t function. And only way I knew how was to talk about myself and what I had to deal with, because I cannot see the adhd, its in my head, its invisible. The problems undefinable, and so yeah, I was coded and programmed to do that shit too. It became my way to communicate, like it as not. Just as I do it now to you.

I'm the same way but I try my best to control it. It never becomes automatic, it's a lifelong effort but at least I don't see myself as a bad person as much anymore

>>33356487 (OP)
>I ask, because I'm not sure how much of a problem this really is. I know it's considered rude to talk about yourself all the time, but the thing is, women seem to really enjoy it, and tend to come back for more. Whenever I make an active attempt to steer the conversation towards informal, neutral small-talk out of politeness, they become noticeably less engage
That's your problem. Why are you trying to shift the conversation to neutral small-talk? Why not shift the conversation to them and start talking about them? Women love talking about THEMSELVES, not just talking.

>>33357709
>Just as I do it now to you.
nta but i like it. it helped me to feel understood.

>>33356487 (OP)
>conversational narcissist
The majority of people (especially when counting those with average or above average extroversion) like talking more than listening. Do you use others as a mirror of yourself? If not, you probably are just a little more talkative than others, meaning you can't shut up.

What I have heard is that you should talk 30% and listen 70% for ideal conversation. This usually places you in a position where you are asking probing questions and are almost giving a friendly interview. While most like being listened to, talking 30% of the time ensures engaging conversation.
>>33356553
Self-consciousness and/or self-reflection does not mean you have ADHD. If you want to diagnose others, at least look up the actual criteria used for it.

If women listen to you earerly, you may be attractive.

>>33356553
OP here. I have spoken to a LOT of psychologists in my life, and the diagnosis of ADD has been on the table, rather than full-blown ADHD, which I understand is a bit more debilitating, though the symptoms are often identical. When I was in high-school and later university, it was impossible for me to pay attention in class and I would just daydream all day, but as soon as I'm by myself and can just read the material on my own terms, I am laser-focused, so I still excelled in school despite being scatterbrained during lectures. Are you the same way? Do you have any non-pharmaceutical techniques or strategies for navigating real life?

>Thats why you talk about yourself. Not out of ego, but out of camaraderie, out of wanting to show someone
This is exactly what it feels like, which is why I think you're onto something with the ADHD/ADD suggestion.

>>33356574
>It comes with a problem though. Some men out there who you are guarding against could be of great help and support, but you’ll never know due to being guarded.
I know. Don't get me wrong, I've had a lot of male friends in my life, but even my closest mates have felt more like sharing common ground rather than a deep, intimate connection. There is one exception, though he was less of a friend, and more of a mentor. To tell you the truth, I kinda loved him, because he felt like the father I never knew I needed, and he likewise implied that he saw me almost like a son. He was the only person I've ever known who saw the things that no one else sees. The closest way I can summarize him through my eyes is with the Disney movie Treasure Planet, as well as Good Will Hunting. He was basically a combination of Silver and the Robin Williams character for me. We had to part ways a little more than two years ago, since we knew each other through a formal, professional setting, and he had to switch jobs, but he gave me his phone number in case I wanted to keep in touch.

I still haven't dared to reach out, even though he's probably the single person I need the most in my life right now. One common problem in my life is that I am terrified of coming across as needy, so I'm scared of reaching out my hand and basically asking him to be the father I never really had.

>And some women out there are wicked, really wicked. Who know you trust women, who can smell your father issues, and will deliberately torture you for fun, who will ruin you because its a game to them. Sociopathic females, yknow. And you wont see it coming because you will instantly trust them, just for being a woman.
I know, I have gotten burned before, though I wouldn't really call it sociopathy, and I don't think they're doing it for fun. I just think women have evolved to be naturals at wielding men as extensions of themselves, an ability they have evolved to have by necessity.

>>33359379
>Why not shift the conversation to them and start talking about them?
Because I really hate feeling like I'm invading other people's privacy and violating their boundaries. I'm not even on social media, since it just feels like stalking to me. I tried Facebook for like half an hour way back in high school, because everyone was using it and nagging me to get on it, and I just felt kinda dirty scrolling through my friends' personal photos, as well as disillusioned. I only ask women about themselves whenever it feels natural to the conversation, since I don't wanna come across as creepy and invasive, despite the fact that it's mostly they who approach me and initiate the conversation in the first place.

>>33362130
>When I was in high-school and later university, it was impossible for me to pay attention in class and I would just daydream all day, but as soon as I'm by myself and can just read the material on my own terms, I am laser-focused, so I still excelled in school despite being scatterbrained during lectures. Are you the same way?

Yeah I was and still am the exact same way. I have ADHD, ADD is the same thing, they simply merged the label into the umbrella. ADD is inattentive type of ADHD, which is the most common. The others would be hyperactive type and mixed type. Most start out as hyperactive as kids and by teens or adults become inattentive. Which basically means, they stopped being physically fidgety due to getting it conditioned and scolded out of them, went to their head instead. Hyperactive thinking aka constant daydreaming and rumination non stop = you become tired, scatter brained, foggy and 'lazy' on the outside.

I didn't get my diagnosis till almost 30. But as a kid all the signs added up and the adult signs too, got my diagnosis few years ago. But yes I relate a lot. Could never pay attention in school at all. I'd always fake needing to use the bathroom just so I can get up and wander the hallways lol.

As for non-med strategies there's lots of techniques. Body-doubling & pomodoro starts are the most popular for example.

Body doubling is when you do the shit you need to do in the company of someone. Could be a voice call or in person. Just a person to talk with as you do shit. For some reason it bypasses the dopamine issue and gets you motivated.

Pomodoro is taking a cooking timer and setting it to 15 mins, and cramming in work. Then when it goes off, set 15 mins to go doomscroll or be lazy. When it goes off, 15 mins again to cram work in. On and on until task is done.

>>33362156
>he was less of a friend, and more of a mentor. To tell you the truth, I kinda loved him, because he felt like the father I never knew I needed.

That's great man, I am glad you had that. It's funny because it's often speculated that ADHD is strongly correlated with the absence of strong male role models. Every one of my friends who also has a diagnosis shares the same void - they didn't get much from dad. No guidance or structure or discipline, or, too much harsh and shitty treatment. Just poor connections all around. Sometimes not even bad dads, just dads who were not enthusiastic or emotionally present.

Though whether this is confirmed in the psych literature or not I'm unsure. Just a pattern I've always noticed.

>know, I have gotten burned before, though I wouldn't really call it sociopathy, and I don't think they're doing it for fun. I just think women have evolved to be naturals at wielding men as extensions of themselves, an ability they have evolved to have by necessity.

Of course not all women do it. I just mean, there are women with an ASPD diagnosis out there, confirmed sociopathic ones. Lots of crazy mentally perturbed women out there. People with Adhd often get into dysfunctional relationships. Because ADHDs often have an 'injustice complex'. We love underdogs, outcasts, people who we feel are misunderstood. We end up gravitating towards them and try to play captain save-a-hoe and often get burned to a crisp.

>>33362156
>One common problem in my life is that I am terrified of coming across as needy, so I'm scared of reaching out my hand and basically asking him to be the father I never really had.

Also felt this too. Been a bane of my existence too. Still happens to me to this day, even though diagnosed and having it treated. Just today for example, I got ‘stuck’ on a problem at work for longer than I should. Reason was because I froze up in my seat, debating if I should ask the more experienced colleague for insight or not. Worrying over being told to fuck off and do my own work, or criticised for being stupid somehow, or exposed as not being the competent worker I presented myself as initially.

It comes from Rejection sensitive dysphoria. RSD. A syndrome that’s often always tied to add/adhd. Comes packed in with the disorder. Fear of criticism and rejection to the point it’s dysphoric, meaning overestimating possibilities of rejection where none exist.

Means asking for help becomes incredibly difficult. But eventually its possible to get better at it. Especially when you realise its just an emotional echo, old memories from the back of your head from times when you asked for help in the past = you got criticised. For me, that was school teachers. I’d raise a hand, ask for help, then got chewed out when teacher would notice I was trailing behind on the assignment. Only words or a few lines Vs. rest of class almost finished.

I internalized the idea that asking for help was to ask to be humiliated. Which happened to me as a kid in class. Other students laughing or jeering when teacher would cause a scene over my tardy work.

>>33356487 (OP)
I really think this is bait solely because Cooper soprano Bit BUT

Assuming you're speaking truth of yourself

I have resources that will help you but only if you actively dive into them.

3 places for you my friend. All on youtube.
Jerry Wise
Surviving Narcissism
Nothingness: The antidote to narcissism

These three gentlemen have bestowed me profound knowledge that has objectively helped me and learn more about myself.

I thought I was NPD too, until I learned more from them. Now I am confident that I am an ACON with most likely Borderline personality.

Please investigate these gifted individuals, their work DOES SOMETHING compared to the vast swathes of nonsense and lies.

Sam vatkin in particular is an exceptional soul, but Jerry Wise helps translate the more complex systems to layman terms if the others go over your head. Good luck and be kind.

>>33357709
how did you resolve it, because this keeps happening and I really dont want to have to take adhd meds to fix it

>>33364035
What helped me resolve it was to spend less time talking about indirect circumstances to explain myself, more time talking more directly and bluntly. That may mean speaking about how you feel, and how someone makes you feel, and so on. Which is uncomfortable at first. But it shows the other person exactly what your intentions are, or what they are not.

Might mean being honest and telling someone you don’t want to hear xyz, or do xyz, because you feel xyz. But you intend to listen anyway and ask if they want help or advice or whatever. Then do that when you feel able.