Being an unattractive guy in today’s world feels like you’re either invisible or shoved into some box: incel, try-hard, loser. And if you try to speak up about it, people either mock you or tell you to “man up.” But I’m not looking for pity. I just want people to tell the truth: if you’re not good-looking as a guy, the world treats you differently — and not in a small way.

Everyone says “personality matters,” but not if no one gives you the chance to show it. Dating apps and social media have made attraction a first-filter test — and if you don’t pass, you’re out. You can be kind, funny, loyal — none of that matters if you’re swiped away in two seconds. The phrase “just be confident” sounds great until you realize confidence doesn’t stop people from ignoring you.

We’re told to lift, dress better, make money. And we do. But if you’re still not “hot,” you don’t get seen. Not as a romantic option, anyway. Meanwhile, people lump us in with extremes: either bitter incels or shallow alpha guys. But most of us are neither. We’re just normal men trying to be enough in a world that only rewards extremes.

We don’t hate women. We don’t think we’re owed anything. We just want to be seen, to feel like love isn’t reserved for the lucky few born with the right jawline and six-pack. That shouldn’t be controversial. And maybe if more people were willing to hear us out instead of writing us off, things could actually change.

>>33393272 (OP)
use sebamed clear face or some similar products to clean up your visage and get rid of that red spot

>>33393272 (OP)

there are people in life who don't care that you look a certain way, even some women. tend towards the good, nevermind the superficial. man is not primarily an object anyway, get your life together, make something of yourself and that will speak for itself.

There are very few people who truly can not help being unattractive.
Invest in your health.

your physical face and body look good. it's your energy. your pain and shame show. You're invisible to because if people saw you they would feel that pain and shame themselves, and they can't afford it, because it's crippling, as you know.

>>33393272 (OP)
Haha even if you're attractive it doesn't make much difference if you don't have a social life. Trust me, attractiveness is not the biggest determining factor.

>>33393272 (OP)
>no one care who I was til I put on the mask
tf u waiting for OP

>>33393272 (OP)
Nice

>>33393272 (OP)
Yea

>>33393272 (OP)
>And maybe if more people were willing to hear us out instead of writing us off, things could actually change.
um... losers can't be chosers, so... you must think of either revolting or continue rotting in the current gynocratic system run by chads & foids

>>33394856
>80% of men
>very few

>>33399559
>80% of men
What ridiculous cope is this? If you are an incel, you are in the bottom 0.001% of men. Not 80%.

>>33399609
what ridiculous cope is this? Nta, but...

>>33393272 (OP)
>not an incel
>sounds suspiciously like an incel
Ok OP, sure thing bruh.
>Everyone says “personality matters,” but not if no one gives you the chance to show it
Ok, you've definitely posted this in multiple threads because I've read this on this board many times, and I doubt there's a lot of people far gone enough to be repeating it. As I've told you in the past, your premise doesn't make sense because you are showing your personality at any given moment, with every interaction you have with people. So am I; so is everybody. Of course in your case we never get to that stage because:
>You can be kind, funny, loyal — none of that matters if you’re swiped away in two seconds.
Why are you relying on apps/online interaction then? Why do you not interact with any women in real life?
It's always the same story with you clowns. You're probably not too ugly or plain looking to get a gf, but you are too ugly or plain looking to succeed on Tinder, a venue where there is literally nothing to go on for anyone but looks. But you guys are also terrified of women so you conflate online dating apps...the most passive, low risk template imaginable...with dating itself. That's on you. Grow some balls and lead a more active social life and you won't have to worry about dating apps.
Third point is, I have zero doubt that when you're online you're trying to swipe on the girls you think are hot too. You're not going for the plain janes either, and if you are it's only because you know you have no chance with the hot ones. So spare me the self-righteous routine.

>>33399663
being single is not the same as being incel, dumbass

>>33399929
incel doesn't mean virgin.

>>33399929
there's a huge intersection between those two groups

>>33399944
This poster is the same autist who thinks married men who fuck their wives 90% of the time they want to are also incels because they don't have access to round the clock orgies at any given moment.

>>33400114
>if i make wild assumptions, i win
It's pretty obvious what i was referring to. You got some pussy by random chance 2 years ago, you're not a virgin, but you are more or less an incel.

>>33399944
Virgin doesn't mean incel. Single absolutely does not mean incel.
>>33400081
Obviously there is not. Incels are maybe 0.001% of men.

>>33400190
>Virgin doesn't mean incel. Single absolutely does not mean incel.
moot point. we can argue about incel all day long, but how deliberately obstuse are you willing to be to look at 63-34 and 25-17, not see an issue, and then turn around and post
>Obviously there is not. Incels are maybe 0.001% of men.
even going by the rigid incel=virgin definition, it's definitely a few point in that age bracket, and sure as hell a good number of points if we're going by the actual meaning of the word incel.

>>33393272 (OP)
>Everyone says “personality matters,” but not if no one gives you the chance to show it.
Oh no not this guy again who refuses to talk to women and then complains that women never talk to him

>>33400144
>more or less
>>33400212
>incel=virgin definition

incels are a modern cult obsessed with claiming as many other men as possible against their will

>>33400221
>incels are a modern cult obsessed with claiming as many other men as possible against their will
This is just something normalfags (like you apparently) spout off whenever confronted. I've seen this same retarded line damn near verbatim more times than i can count. Just because lemmings want to throw it around as a meaningless buzzword to insult with at will doesn't change the actual meaning of the word.

>>33400247
>the actual meaning of the word.
It's not even a real word my guy, it's a buzzword, a meme, an internet expression. One that ironically was created by some aging lesbian woman decades ago and reclaimed by straight(?) white(??) dudes.

Why do you think the movie 40 Year Old Virgin wasn't called The 40 Year Old Incel? Why do you think in all of the 80s boner comedies there's never a single mention of the word incel? Why do you think Le Normalfags don't call themselves incel?

Because it's a shit term for retards who make their lack of getting pussy their entire identity, and apply the term with Microsoft-tier consistency.

e.g. if you haven't had sex today, this very minute, with your wife to whom you are married - you are 100% an incel!

nonsense.

>>33400190
Obviously, you're a retard

>>33400279
An old word with a relatively niche application that found more widespread use in later times when it became more relevant to people. The fact that it didn't immediately become THE word at the time doesn't mean a whole lot.

>Because it's a shit term for retards who make their lack of getting pussy their entire identity, and apply the term with Microsoft-tier consistency.
You don't even understand the people you're talking about, you're just going based off of what others told you, and it really shows.
>e.g. if you haven't had sex today, this very minute, with your wife to whom you are married - you are 100% an incel!
Case in point. It's practically a running meme among "cultural incels" that if a woman has ever touched your cock, you can't call yourself an incel. There's the whole wizard thing. It's the exact opposite of what you're describing, those types just get called failed normalfags.

Incels are dudes who have no girlfriends and get 0 pussy outside of hookers, and then go on to blame at least one of the following; society, modern technology, ancient history, their parents, their childhood, being teased by a girl that one time, feminism, modern movies, movies from decades ago, tattoos, piercings, guys who play sports, guys who dance, sociology, anthropology, biology, zoology, economics, sexuality, the world at large, the universe and its creator, etc.

Everything except accepting and improving their flaws (they're antisocial and also extremely annoying).

Bonus points if they have a 4chan folder dedicated exclusively to arguing about how it's not their fault they don't have a gf, filled with jpegs of graphs we've all seen a million times. Extra bonus points if they actually admit that they just really fucking hate women. Clear your bingo card if they go mask off and claim that males make better women than females.

>>33400325
>Incels are dudes who have no girlfriends and get 0 pussy outside of hookers, and then go on to blame at least one of the following; society, modern technology, ancient history, their parents, their childhood, being teased by a girl that one time, feminism, modern movies, movies from decades ago, tattoos, piercings, guys who play sports, guys who dance, sociology, anthropology, biology, zoology, economics, sexuality, the world at large, the universe and its creator, etc.
>Everything except accepting and improving their flaws (they're antisocial and also extremely annoying).
no

>Bonus points if they have a 4chan folder dedicated exclusively to arguing about how it's not their fault they don't have a gf, filled with jpegs of graphs we've all seen a million times. Extra bonus points if they actually admit that they just really fucking hate women. Clear your bingo card if they go mask off and claim that males make better women than females.
yes

>>33400314
Just the other week there was a thread on here that reached the bump limit and beyond because some guy kept trying to argue that married men could be incels if their wives withheld sex from them.

He identified as incel, so it's not "what others told me" it's what incels consistently talk about themselves.

>>33400340
Well fuck my ass, one spastic made a thread. I guess i better go jump off a bridge in shame for my stupidity and wrongness.

>>33400343
okay so what's your deal, what's your completely unique definition of who is or isn't an incel, that will contradict the next incel's definition of what an incel is

>>33400349
already gave an idea of it here
>>33400144
>You got some pussy by random chance 2 years ago, you're not a virgin, but you are more or less an incel.

this all ties back to this post and the OP
>>33399663
>>33393272 (OP)
The idea that incels are some tiny niche is absurd when you consider how many guys struggle to get any while women aren't having any problem getting dick. There's 1 man to every 1 woman, but you'd think it was a 3:1 ratio given the way things are. I don't think you need incel science to figure out what this implies.

>>33400371
>>You got some pussy by random chance 2 years ago, you're not a virgin, but you are more or less an incel.
so 2 years is the limit? Why not a year? 6 months? Who decided on the timeline?
>more or less
you can't even define it yourself bro

what about this: >>33400325
Is that completely way off mark or a fair generalization of incel culture?

>The idea that incels are some tiny niche is absurd when you consider how many guys struggle to get any while women aren't having any problem getting dick.
It's not women's fault or society's fault or whoever else's fault that some dudes insist on ice-skating uphill, so to speak.

Most incels blindly follow TERRIBLE advice, like the whole meme about ignoring women during your teens and 20s because you should instead focus exclusively on your grades and then your career because women will magically fall from the sky when your pay off your mortgage or whatever. or how incels typically have this laundry list of non-negotiable demands about what they want and don't want in a woman
>she has to be a shy innocent pure virgin
>she has to be an expert penis handler who will submit to my every sexual fetish and desire at the drop of a hat
>she has to be young
>she can't be fat
>she can't be too skinny
>she has to be based and trad
>she can't have tattoos
>she can't have piercings
>she can't dye her hair unnatural colors
>she can't leave her city to go travel anywhere because travelling is bad
>she can't be on social media
>she can't have male friends
>she can't have female friends, just to be sure
etc.

or how other incels hate normies and hate normie music and hate normie culture, and then will irrationally try to disguise themselves as normies and try to get normie girls at normie nightclubs, just because those girls are blonde and have big asses or whatever.

>>33400412
>so 2 years is the limit? Why not a year? 6 months? Who decided on the timeline?
>you can't even define it yourself bro
Now you're just pretending to be autistic. You know what i meant.

>It's not women's fault or society's fault or whoever else's fault that some dudes insist on ice-skating uphill, so to speak.
Let's be frank here for a minute. Women are all chasing after the same pool of dudes. When they're hot and young and not looking to settle down, they're still having sex, just not with average boring dudes. You don't need r9k to figure this one out. Obviously it's not 100% every woman ever, but still.

>Is that completely way off mark or a fair generalization of incel culture?
>or how other incels hate normies and hate normie music and hate normie culture, and then will irrationally try to disguise themselves as normies and try to get normie girls at normie nightclubs, just because those girls are blonde and have big asses or whatever.
This is just "incels are all the same person" reasoning, same with most of your points in general desu.

>Most incels blindly follow TERRIBLE advice, like the whole meme about ignoring women during your teens and 20s because you should instead focus exclusively on your grades and then your career because women will magically fall from the sky when your pay off your mortgage or whatever. or how incels typically have this laundry list of non-negotiable demands about what they want and don't want in a woman
This is the advice you get from every normalfag dad ever, not sure where you figure incels factor in here. It's dad advice 101 that you gotta work hard and make money or women won't want you.

>>33400441
>Now you're just pretending to be autistic. You know what i meant.
I don't know what you mean, that's why I asked you to define it. You said 2 years and I asked why that amount of time specifically and you can't explain why.

>Women are all chasing after the same pool of dudes. When they're hot and young and not looking to settle down,
They're not. Whatever Chad meme image you're thinking of isn't attractive to a lot of women. Not every woman wants a guy who spends more time in front of the bathroom than her. Not every woman wants a guy who has absolutely no interests other than team sports and pop music.

Also those hot blondes who are having sex with hot Chad? They settle with Chad when they both get older, they're not going to settle with average boring dudes. average boring women settle with average boring dudes.

>This is just "incels are all the same person" reasoning, same with most of your points in general desu.
I'm not saying they're the same person, I'm saying they're part of the same subculture.

What about that didn't apply to you?

>This is the advice you get from every normalfag dad ever, not sure where you figure incels factor in here. It's dad advice 101 that you gotta work hard and make money or women won't want you.

Then I'm sorry to say but your dad's a retard or he's extremely funny and has been playing the world's longest-running prank on you.

"The key to get women, is to completely ignore them and also ignore your social life"

bro

Even trad Asian parents who whip their kids into excelling at their careers aren't telling them that there's a free slutty virgin gf as a reward at the end, they're just telling them do focus on their career because that's all that's important to them, and a lot of them came from arranged marriages so they don't know how dating even works.

How do you think kids start dating in middle school? In public school too, not private school rich kids.

>>33400475
>I don't know what you mean, that's why I asked you to define it. You said 2 years and I asked why that amount of time specifically and you can't explain why.
It isn't a literal time limit, you know that, you're just being obtuse.

>They're not. Whatever Chad meme image you're thinking of isn't attractive to a lot of women. Not every woman wants a guy who spends more time in front of the bathroom than her. Not every woman wants a guy who has absolutely no interests other than team sports and pop music.
Like i said, being obtuse. No shit it isn't the guy spending 2 hours in the bathroom doing his makeup. It's guys that are tall, attractive, exciting, etc.. And you're the only one calling out "Chad". I just said that there's a larger portion of women crowding a smaller portion of men. Young women are hot by default, most men aren't.

>average boring women settle with average boring dudes.
yes, as they get older. hence the "settle down".

>What about that didn't apply to you?
any of it desu. i'm just a shitposting shizoid. i'm not bemoaning my lack of women, i never bothered. i just find it funny the mental gymnastics normalfags put on whenever anything incel gets brought up.

>Then I'm sorry to say but your dad's a retard or he's extremely funny and has been playing the world's longest-running prank on you.
What i mentioned is pretty stereotypical, i wasn't basing it off my dad. I just know that's the boomer dad mindset. It's literally the "men age like wine" meme.

>"The key to get women, is to completely ignore them and also ignore your social life"
Never implied that.

>>33400475
>Even trad Asian parents who whip their kids into excelling at their careers aren't telling them that there's a free slutty virgin gf as a reward at the end, they're just telling them do focus on their career because that's all that's important to them, and a lot of them came from arranged marriages so they don't know how dating even works.
You're half right, but there isn't really much of a point. Plethora of ricecels that all have some story of "tiger parents told me to focus on studies and nothing else, now i'm older and they wonder why i'm so inept with women and don't have a wife"

>>33400537
>It isn't a literal time limit,
so what is it then
>you know that, you're just being obtuse.
I don't know that. I don't know what your definition of incel is.

>It's guys that are tall, attractive, exciting, etc.. And you're the only one calling out "Chad". I just said that there's a larger portion of women crowding a smaller portion of men. Young women are hot by default, most men aren't.
Yeah I agree, most women prefer attractive charismatic fun interesting and exciting guys. Also most men are gross slobs with no social skills. If I was bisexual or even gay I wouldn't want to fuck like 90% of men either.

>i just find it funny the mental gymnastics normalfags put on whenever anything incel gets brought up.
bro you're the one doing 1080 flips around the olympic bars here struggling to explain what an incel even is

>i wasn't basing it off my dad.
Yeah and my dad also never gave me that advice.

I've only ever seen it as misguided 20something year olds giving other misguided 20something year olds completely misguiding advice.

>Never implied that.

but that's what that dogshit advice is
>ignore women and your social life in middle school, jr high, high school, and college.
cool way to not get women, or to not make friends either.

Again, if it wasn't your dad or it wasn't my dad or really anyone else's dad who said that advice how are you gonna say it's typical average dad advice?

>>33400541
yeah but like I said that's just Asian parents not understand the culture of young people, especially when they're in America or other western countries.

and obviously if you're not Asian, you don't get to use the "my parents forbade me to date I could only focus on studies and making ancestors proud with bank account" excuse.

I'm sure most parents were wondering why little anon wasn't making friends and meeting girls instead of being in his room all the time.

>>33400562
>Yeah I agree, most women prefer attractive charismatic fun interesting and exciting guys. Also most men are gross slobs with no social skills. If I was bisexual or even gay I wouldn't want to fuck like 90% of men either.
This whole argument just to loop back around to you agreeing with the very point you were adamant wasn't true.
>bunch of random nitpicked lines with deliberately dense responses

fucking hell, i got b8'd hard. i'm not even mad, good shit m8.

>>33393272 (OP)
Bro, I don't even like you and I'm not even trying to see you as romantic—now imagine how a woman must feel. You're a whiny fucking baby, your truth is only yours alone so work on that. There's no "we" here.

>>33393272 (OP)
Mate, I don't know if that guy is you or you look like him, but you're not, "unattractive". You look fine, and I bet if you aren't demoralized you act fine too.

Self worth from dating apps is a trap. They're a backward approach to dating. Male attraction is immediate - 90% visual, 10% personality. Women are the opposite, so using dating apps forces this unnatural behavior into women's brains.

Imagine a girl sitting alone at a bar, she holds your gaze, you sit down nearby, she says, "hi". You move a seat closer. You launch into reading her your dating profile, your income, your BMI, height, weight, a shirtless pic. You can't demonstrate what would make you attractive to her, your personality, wit, and the way you could make her feel when she's with you. You've only offered reasons for rejection.

Compare that with meeting someone through community, any community, but let's say a church Summer potluck. There's a biddy who sits next to you at service, her name is Nancy, she asks you how your week was every week, you exchange platitudes. Suddenly there's a cute girl in a sun dress with her, you approach, "Hi Nancy, you look radiant today. How was your week?" She lights up, exchanges platitudes, mentions her single daughter with the grace of the Kool Aide man. The daughter flinches at that, observing your interaction. You offer your hand, "it's a pleasure to meet you," complement her dress. The conversation is fluid, candid, there's no pressure, you can't fuck this up so you make candid observations, you say Nancy should tell all the pretty girls you're single too, her daughter smiles at that.

Who is easier to ask out on a serious date? My brother in Christ, I think what you're missing is community. People who remember your name and care about you.

>>33400599
>This whole argument just to loop back around to you agreeing with the very point you were adamant wasn't true.
The point is that most guys evolve past their woman-hating booger-eating 16-hours-a-day-of-video-games phase.

They put some effort into being social and adopting fashion styles, improving their looks, and trying out new experiences.

Incels don't.