Is there some way to counteract this? What is even the biggest non-superhero comic today that casuals would care about?

>>149301452 (OP)
>counteract this
I don’t see why you think of it as something that needs to be counteracted. Im being serious. It’s an odd premise.

>>149301452 (OP)
>What is even the biggest non-superhero comic today that casuals would care about?
Duck comics. Just like it's always been.

>>149301490
As in, can comics or comic media make up lost ground that's been eroding at it over decades?

>>149301494
>that casuals would care about

>>149301452 (OP)
Way too late.

>>149301507
More casuals care about duck comics than anyone has ever cared about cape comics.
Them not being Americans doesn't matter.

>>149301490
Well for one I don't want to see the medium I grew up with die off...

People like manga/anime storytelling. And I don't just mean big eyed characters, though the aesthetics are a major part of that. It's a lot of things, but if I was to sum it up it's that a lot of these popular anime will have exaggerated and stylized takes on reality, but at it's root the characters will reflect reality. They won't act like real people or look like them, but they will have aspects that make their lives feel real and tangible to the viewer. Fights are stylized in a way they feel more grand than reality, even mundane things like a board game or a sports game aren't just 1:1 but really getting into it. to increase tension.
American comics especially will try to be "realistic" but then have unrelatable characters that don't feel like real people. The actions are fast and not dwelled on to move from one plot point to another.
Stylization is a huge factor because even though American comics tend to go for more realistic, or detailed, styles, they don't feel like actual characters to a lot of uninitiated viewers. They're ciphers for the story, but not engaging.
And that's not even going to how pages are done. It's just a whole uphill battle, but it's like asking why Bollywood isn't as popular as Hollywood movies internationally.

>>149301452 (OP)
Hi. Visitor here (I browse the other boards, but almost never /co/). The only comic that I bought for myself and enjoyed was Scott Pilgrim. I bought all volumes too.

>>149301582
Faggot

>>149301578
>a lot of these popular anime will have exaggerated and stylized takes on reality, but at it's root the characters will reflect reality. They won't act like real people or look like them, but they will have aspects that make their lives feel real and tangible to the viewer. Fights are stylized in a way they feel more grand than reality, even mundane things like a board game or a sports game aren't just 1:1 but really getting into it. to increase tension.
>American comics especially will try to be "realistic" but then have unrelatable characters that don't feel like real people. The actions are fast and not dwelled on to move from one plot point to another.
>Stylization is a huge factor because even though American comics tend to go for more realistic, or detailed, styles, they don't feel like actual characters to a lot of uninitiated viewers. They're ciphers for the story, but not engaging.
Dumb weeb

>>149301578
>They're ciphers for the story, but not engaging.
Yeah, I feel this a lot with comics made after 2000.

>>149301506
No Im well aware of what you said, I just don’t see it a lost ground. But it’s clear you just want to make an east vs west thread.

Ehh, American comics just don't have global appeal, they barely appeal to all of America, let alone the rest of the planet.
This was never really an option anyways since the only American comic media that really had an audience outside of the Anglosphere was the movies, and now even that is starting to wane.

>>149301527
Simply not true no matter what you demented duck fags think. This is where you’ll confuse decent modern sales as mattering to the discussion at all. we’re talking about a cartoon that would appeal to American casuals - the biggest consumer base in the western world.

>>149301527
>>149301666
Anime means cartoon. The people watching anime on Netflix aren’t reading manga. Casuals and normies don’t read anything they consume what their television puts in front of them.

I like anime/manga for fights in which every pucnh feels like it matters, given it isnt the norm. Just feels like theres more of that there than in the comics which are more about the grand theatre of the superpowered people.

Like anything that happens in Baki has 1000% less lore and powerscale justification than Juggernaut willing himself back into reality, but is given much more of a narrative significance to the point that even a cheap nutshot becomes an important recurring theme about the differences between an athlete and a warrior. I just hadnt seen capeshit do something like that yet.

>>149301657
>But it’s clear you just want to make an east vs west thread.
Uh no. Stop imagining up scenarios.

>>149301452 (OP)
One of the comics that bringed new readers into the medium like hasn't happened in decades was... HearthStopper

>Is there some way to counteract this?
Go back in time to 1997-2000 and tell comic and cartoon companies to pay the fuck attention to anime and manga starting to blow them out of the water.

>>149301452 (OP)
Now post how much money capeshit s made...

>>149301734
Outside of pokemon and hellokitty (which I don't think op meant) cape films alone have made more money than all the other biggest anime put togheter.

>>149301766
>Equating artistic merit with profits

>>149301452 (OP)
This is why we need to allow more /a/ shows here.

>>149301751
Capeshit has actually done pretty poorly so far this year.
We've only had Captain America: Blacksploitation and Thunderbolts, and they both flopped, and Superman marketing seems to be completely retarded.

>>149301678
>we’re talking about a cartoon that would appeal to American casuals
Then the answer is none, unless you want to include the funny pages, since comics have never been more popular in the states than duck comics are in Europe.
In fact only two comics have ever sold more than a million copies in the states, and one of them is only barely above that, and the other one has had three decades to accumulate 8 million sales.
That is fucking abysmal for the supposedly "biggest consumer base in the western world."

>>149301452 (OP)
Why is it always

>Hey there are people watching a thing I don't personally like watching!
>We need to pass laws and make rules that stops this!!!

every fucking time? Why when something becomes popular, we have to find ways to make people not watch or listen to that popular thing?

>>149301452 (OP)
Making serious (not comedy), not ugly shows for adults
This isn’t happening because western execs can’t get over animation for kids is dead, can’t make non-comedy shows for adults (because everything wants to be the next Simpsons), and can’t make non-grotesque animation

>>149301830
>things nobody said
Why are the purveyors of lolicon so insecure?

>>149301452 (OP)
"Have you tried writing good comics?"
Green Lantern, Spider Man, Superman. Batman is in both the yes and no categories. Same for X Men.

>>149301547
Did it ever once occur to you that maybe, just maybe make them less shit and people may want to read them again?

When is the last time you actually saw a hero throw a fucking punch at a villain, and not as a single page throwaway thing that is handled off panel just to show that the hero does sometimes fight villains and then back to the other 21 pages of pointless drama and personal shit. Comics are boring now, Spider-Man is 99% personal shit and he will have a single page where you see him fighting Rhino or Scorpion as some aside to the main story which is pointless overly dramatic shit.

You realize comics were at their highest popularity when they were available in every grocery and convenience store? Each time people try to talk about availability YOU FAGS appear to bitch and moan about Nooooo it has to be in comic shops only fuck you newsstands are antiquated people just don't understand and they should be forced to always go to comic shops only!

Don't make comics incredibly boring
Don't make comics incredibly niche and hard to find
Keep your political shit out of it and let the fucking hero punch an actual villain
Quit doing every single last damn thing that comics have been doing the last 20 years that buried the entire medium and turned off all fans.

America would need to get a culture anyone would actually want to care about again.
And for the love of god, stop setting everything in LA/San Fran.

>>149301904
>When is the last time you actually saw a hero throw a fucking punch at a villain, and not as a single page throwaway thing that is handled off panel just to show that the hero does sometimes fight villains and then back to the other 21 pages of pointless drama and personal shit. Comics are boring now, Spider-Man is 99% personal shit and he will have a single page where you see him fighting Rhino or Scorpion as some aside to the main story which is pointless overly dramatic shit.
I'm pretty new to comics but I always assumed that they were like this. The fighting is backdrop to the discussion and drama in comics as that's just how the medium is. Am I wrong?

the problem with comics is they're fairly episodic and never end, people want actual stories

>>149301766
>Outside of pokemon and hellokitty (which I don't think op meant) cape films alone have made more money than all the other biggest anime put togheter.
The counterpoint to that is cape films tend to have fuck all to do with the comics they're ostensibly based on, nothing would be stopping movie studios from making live action blockbusters based on better material, and One Piece alone is worth more than all of DC.

>>149301452 (OP)
I haven't really watched western cartoons in a while.

>>149301578
Manga is the first time that a story about a teen hero doing teen things and still fighting bad guys worked out well. American comics always fucked this up by first drawing them as the exact same mid 30 something adult as the rest of the heroes. Half the time they never really did much in the way of teen shit either.

>>149301452 (OP)
notice how the article doesn't say 50% of users EXCLUSIVELY watch anime. people can watch both anime and cartoons. OP is a baiting nigger.
/thread

>>149301578
/a/ is that way weeb bitch. fuck off.

>>149301703
Confirmed for having never read a single fucking comic at all.
Why are you even here?

>>149301951
Calm down ,faggot.

>something that is unknown and unfamiliar to me has been encroaching upon my mental line of sight
>therefore I must engage fight or flight against whatever it is that threatens my sense of self and ongoing security by ensuring whatever it is that is the cause of my anxiety is ultimately destroyed or crippled to the point where it no longer threatens me as an individual organism
>also something something racism
This thread is everything that is wrong with us as a collective species of barely out of the jungle hairless apes, sweet Christ in Heaven......

>>149301779
Yes because this thread is equating Netflix views with quality. It still holds that capeshit makes a lot of money. So much there's Japanese content of them lol
>>149301804
And fair. But it's still just a different top of how much money big companies have been able to get out of it comparatively.

Pokemon reigns Supreme ofc. And then hellokitty. But after that superheroes have made more money than even juggernauts like db

>>149301632
>>149301951
>no argument

>>149301951
Then why are the East vs West threads so popular here? Why are the Toonami threads the most active?
Not to mention a lot of people want to talk about /a/ stuff here because there's nothing to talk about.

>>149301734
Honestly, leave the comics on the fucking spinner racks in regular stores. Making it an incredibly, ridiculously, frustratingly tiny niche thing kept to a single specialty shop that not every town has and majority of parents are never ever willing to take their kids to outside of maybe 1-2 a year at best did a lot of damage.

A product needs to be as available as possible to grab the highest percentage of customers it absolutely can. But for some reason comic companies decided to do the exact opposite of any retailer in the world and decided their product needs to be really really Un-available and kept to a specialty location that might not even exist in most markets.

And how about that the industry is dying as a result of this polar opposite to a good marketing idea.

>>149301452 (OP)
>Is there some way to counteract this?
No, for starters most cartoons are visually unappealing in contrast to anime (which is Ironic since the grandfather of it based his designs in Disney artstyles) meaning that they don't work outside of comedy, and the few times that they try to follow anime's drama and serialization storytelling it comes-off as hilariously pretentious, for example, all loreshit cartoons from the 10's that delusional millennials suck up to (Gravity Falls, Adventure Time, Steven Universe, Amphibia).
And this without getting how cartoons have become a leftist calarts echochamer with woke nonsense that automatically turn away boys, the main audience that used to support cartoons in the past, not a big surprise more of them run off to anime and japanese vidya

>>149301452 (OP)
Maybe it's because I grew up in an overly religious family but fuck, am I really tired of seeing groups of people seeing thing that is popular, and then discussing ways to combat thing that is popular. It was a veeeeerrrrry common event growing up.

Let people enjoy shit already you humorless fags.

>>149302019
>all loreshit cartoons from the 10's that delusional millennials suck up to (Gravity Falls, Adventure Time, Steven Universe, Amphibia).
It's funny was doin way more interesting "lore" anime during the 2010s. If those series were /co/ instead of /a/, people here would have fainted from hype.

>>149301830
First and foremost, weebshit is pedoshit and that is wrong and does in fact need to be stopped. Stop arguing in favor of pedoshit you fucking gooning sick piece of shit.

>>149302042
Look at the catalog, it's all pedoshit. Who cares?

>>149301939
That's because to American pop culture, the teenagers focused on were on the older end and played by adults in movies. The whole zeitgeist for teen culture stuff like Teen Titans and Spider-man come from was teens around 16-19(even Spider-man wasn't necessarily a 15 year old initially,that was a retcon). Basically adults without the same responsibilities.
Japanese teens in fiction are generally around 13-15 to start and still not developed entirely yet.

>>149302005
>y, leave the comics on the fucking spinner racks in regular stores. Making it an incredibly, ridiculously, frustratingly tiny niche thing kept to a single specialty shop that not every town has and majority of parents are never ever willing to take their kids to outside of maybe 1-2 a year at best did a lot of damage.
Comics didn't leave regular stores because they wanted, they left because retailers stopped wanting comics.
Have you ever heard of Gold Key comics?

>>149301578
People like lolicon and teen tits., that's it. You wasted an awful lot of words dancing around the fact that you want to fap to underage tits because nip artists draw a whole lot of underage tits and ass. It's fucking clear where you stand on things, especially the focus on "muh realistic" which translates to you wanting to fap to underage tits and ass.

>>149301452 (OP)
Manga: Sold to readers, based on reader feedback
Capeshit: Sold to comic book stores, by means of income generated through collectible card game sales.

I wonder what the effects of that might be.

>>149301452 (OP)
I know a gen Z guy that watched Hajime no Ippo on Netflix and it's not like I can recommend him a similar western cartoon since the west is very limited in terms of variety.

Normalfags are actually killing what made Anime special anyway.

>>149301830
Foreign invasion putting out the domestic workers and harming native industry. It's the exact reason tariffs were put into place. American companies need to be able to turn a profit again after incredibly cheap shit foreign made slop fills all American markets. It IS something that has to be combated over here.

>>149301452 (OP)
>oh no muh cartroons and capeshit are not popular
No one cares, fag.

>>149301904
>Wordswordswords
Okay great, you like fapping to nip drawings. Got it!

>>149301452 (OP)
>Netflix
One of the worst companies to ever exist and I will celebrate when it actually goes under.
Its biggest sin is spawning more slop factories.

>>149302100
Then ask the american marktes to stop producing slop.

>>149302059
Manga definitely does a better job of portraying someone in high school doing high school shit while fighting monsters on the side. Half the time capeshit teens don't even go to a school or it's just never shown at all.

>>149302123
first-order thinking on display here

>>149302092
good luck getting comic writers to take just ....any...level of suggestion or feedback. I'm not sure just what in the hell makes someone who writes a colorful funnyboook get that level of ego that they seem to think they are gods among insects, but they do.

>>149302100
The native industry has been garbage way before the foreign invasion.

>>149301991
>Pokemon's made 98.9 billion
>Mickey mouse's made 61.2 billion
>Winnie Pooh has made 48.8 billion
>Anpanman (most sucessful japanese comic) 38.4 billion
>Mcu specifically 34.3 billion
>Hello Kitty 33.5 billion
>batman 29.8 billion
>Spider-man 26.8 billion
>Rilakkuma 10 billion
>dragon ball 9.54 billion
Like dragon ball beats x-men, superman and the dc films but its below everything else (including other co-adjacent stuff like transformers and star wars)

Goat: Japan
Horn: Anime

>>149301734
Make comics more accessible, and I don’t mean relaunches or anything. Just sell them on the goddamn spinner racks again, why do you think Archie managed to survive for so long? I can go to fucking Target and buy 3/4th of My Hero Academia but not a single comic?

>>149301578
Anime and Manga have a very dramatic theatrical style that in western terms is much closer to something like a classical opera than a modern screenplay.
Everything is ultra-heightened, time stops in intense situations for passionate monologues, every gesture is being played to the cheap seats, it's even got its own set of stock characters like any good theater tradition.

>>149302100
Then stop being a stupid commie country that gets out competed by superior capitalist countries that actually produce shit people want.

>>149301506
>can comics or comic media make up lost ground that's been eroding at it over decades?
No

>>149301688
Solo Leveing book sales trounced on cape comics, bro. Manga and manwha are much more in demand than comics.

>>149302164
>posting animal suffering
Peak brown behavior.

>>149302100
>he's upet that basic economic factors turned against him in a completely foreseeable and avoidable way
Point at him and laugh, children.

>>149302167
Hey kids, want to spend 20 buck on this dog shit paperback issue that resolves a cliffhanger you didn't know about, flails around for a few pages with characters you have no idea who they are and ends in another cliffhanger?

>>149302167
Spinner racks ended because customers stopped buying not the other way around. Besides no one wants to buy their entertainment in a fucking grocery store, no one ever has. It was always filler slop and you are too young to even know of a time when that was happening anyway so time to shut the fuck up about it.

>>149301452 (OP)
Why not just expand the kind of comics you can publish and market them outside over comics?

>>149302195
>suffering
Pretty sure it's dead.

>>149302195
It's nature beautiful?

>>149302170
You stop the counterproductive competition by banning the foreign slop from touching our shores in the first place.

>>149302025
I find it hard to believe that people "enjoy" stuff like this.

Comic renaissance will be digital or not at all.

>>149301916
>The fighting is backdrop to the discussion and drama in comics as that's just how the medium is. Am I wrong?
Used to be the other way around. And that's what sold. Then a bunch of dorks with their thumbs up their asses thought that was "slop" and changed things, making comics more and more niche every year. Never to listen to no fun faggots that hate the Rule of Cool with a passion.

I don't understand animal abuse, I don't understand torturing creatures that are dumber than a child.
I much prefer cartel gore. It's peak comfy and it being Mexicans you know they deserved to die in pain regardless.

>>149302219
>Complains about foreigners taking his jobs
>Wants foreigners to fix his economy for him

>>149302130
That's another thing that goes back to the teenager boom in movies back then. They were always just hanging out and even in school just doing what they wanted outside between periods lol.

>>149302220
Are you being disingenuous on purpose?
(I have autism and it's hard to tell)

>>149302093
Are you sure you tried at all?

>>149302184
And overall capeshit's made more money than any manga, so..

>>149301918
>the problem with comics is they're fairly episodic and never end, people want actual stories
One Piece disproved this, bro. Quit it with that geek mentality.

>>149302220
>those colors
Fuck, I don't remember animatrix looking so pleasant.

>>149301578
I don't think the stylization is as important as the willingness to let suspension of disbelief carry the story. I can't begin to say why we have trouble with that over here, but there's always some reason we end up having to turn around mid-stride and retreat from genuinely novel thought.

>>149302220
anon that's a movie tie in anime short from 22 years ago. That isn't exactly what people talk about when they say they enjoy anime these days. You're fuckin old dude.

How many people just plain never want to go to a fucking comic shop at all?

Either the place sucks,
it's in a really frustrating shopping center far away or in an annoying place to get in and out of,
The people running it are annoying to have to deal with
Comics are just not worth a special trip to some weird shop across town in the first place.

Seems like it sure was a whole lot easier to grab something off the spinner rack while out getting some groceries in my local neighborhood store.

>>149302005
>Newspaper print
>black and white.
>Let the artists do the inking themselves.
>Lower the prices to be affordable to your average broke ass

>>149302250
Is this a joke? Because Tyson doesn't do that much boxing in that show.

>>149302253
The exception that proves the rule.
Your ecosystem cannot ALL be the neverending story

>>149302236
>animal abuse
Anon, its horn grew into its head.
Sure it's a dead animal, but it's not exactly animal abuse.
Hell, a lion eating a gazelle would be more animal abuse since at least that's not the gazelle doing something to itself.

>>149302259
>2003 was 19,487 years ago
Fuck me

>>149301916
It was the opposite, and not all that long ago either. Early 2010s books were much more action filled. Seems around 2019 or so when things turned into lots of overly dramatic crap with way too much dialog and almost never a villain appearing or if they did they had nothing to do with the main plot at all.

>>149302145
>good luck getting comic writers to take just ....any...level of suggestion or feedback
Fire the writers and let the artist tell the story.

>>149302288
Remember: You're here forever

>>149302250
Christ above, I miss Norm Macdonald

>>149302220
Looks more aesthetic than most western animation.

>>149302306
Have you seen current day comic artists? It's not going to get better just like that

>>149302266
>it's in a really frustrating shopping center far away or in an annoying place to get in and out of,

I don't think I have ever once seen a LCS not be this in some way. either they are buried deep in some third rate old shitty shopping center that always had tons of traffic around it so getting in and especially out of the parking lot is a goddamn nightmare. Or they are in some old towne part of the city where the only parking is in the old street with a parking meter and the nearest space might be about 5 blocks away.

>>149302258
>I don't think the stylization is as important a
It's INCREDIBLY important and denying it is to deny the root of what attracts people to something in the first place.
The vast majority of comics art can be well drawn technically but lack a feel of character that keeps all but the most dedicated fans away.
It's not just the character designs, but how they're drawn. just unappealing.

Ok forget all the bullshit. Let's say you are in charge of bringing interest back into comics and are in some position to do so. How would you do it? What changes would you make?
I'm not looking for personal political grievances I'm talking about actual action.

>>149302252
>And overall capeshit's made more money than any manga, so..
Through movies and merch, not the books. And even then, that shit's dying down. It was a fad, nothing more.

>>149301452 (OP)
EAST VS WEST IS RETARDED NO MATTER WHAT SIDE YOU TAKE

It's a very simple question that somehow isn't getting asked or answered:

What is Japan doing right and what are western comics doing wrong?

>>149301452 (OP)
If you had a time machine I'd say go back to the 2000s and double down on action cartoons that actually copeted with anime instead of whatever the fuck modern creators are doing. Also level the city of Boston to the ground.

>>149302220
Uhh I kinda enjoyed watching that webm. Is this what anime is like? I never grew up with it.

>>149302321
>Have you seen current day comic artists? It's not going to get better just like that
Firing the writers will free up the dough to get better artists on the books. No color with them inking their own work will cut costs significantly.

>>149302281
>Confirmed for never watching the show
Go back to your nip toons faggot

>>149302329
>I'm not looking for personal political grievances I'm talking about actual action
Sadly we're at a point in time where they're both one and the same

>>149302347
It's the last time the Matrix was good.

>>149302281
Boxing is just a backdrop for the deep drama that happens every episode. It's what comics are about.

>>149302341
>What is Japan doing right
Following the money.
>what are western comics doing wrong?
The opposite.

>>149302288
>Kids born in 2003 are now middle aged adults with mortgages and are on their third spouse
It's been a while anon

>>149302354
I have watched a few episodes when I caught it on AS. Post all the boxing scenes. From what I've seen it didn't have the same appeal as HnI.

>>149302321
I enjoy the occasional comic. What am I missing?

>>149302250
Did you just try to say Mike Tyson Mysteries is a suitable recommendation for someone looking for something like Hajime no Ippo?
Are you high?

>>149302331
How DO you think anime and manga makes most of its money? Its merch, merch makes the world go round. Pokemon makes money becuase every pokemon is a marketable plushie they can sell 20 thousand of.

I mean, it still made billions with a b. And merch wise most of this characters have made a lot even with dogshit films that didnt always perform the best, that's really not going to change? And the movies are just fluctuating, its still more than hte most profitable anime movie's made internationally? The higest one is the demon slayer film at $507,127,293 which is respectable, but none of them have crossed the billion mark, which even last year a superhero film did with deadpool/wolverine.

>>149302362
Matrix was never good.
Literal shit by trannies for trannies.
And it assraped action genre for a while
>dude you like slow mo? it's totally cool and not obnoxious and overused
Action films in 2000s were insufferable.

>>149302390
humourous falsehoods are often posted on imageboards as a joke

>>149302347
Like any form of media, anime has its handful of gems while the rest is uninspired sloppy meant for mass consumption. The trick is rooting through the muck to find the good ones that appeal to you

>>149302323
Oh no I have to heckin walk to go to a store!!!

Maybe if your lardass got the fuck up sometimes walking a couple blocks wouldn't be that much of a chore that keeps you from the entertainment you want.

>>149302382
This comic annoys me more than it should because it's clear that it's meant to reference the "moth flying out of the wallet" gag, but it's also clear that they don't actually understand the gag.

>>149302394
Have to be 18 to post here, kiddo

>>149301452 (OP)
>Is there some way to counteract this?
Make cartoons that people want to watch.

>>149302411
Current comics aren't worth walking to a store for.

>>149302329
>personal political grievances I'm talking about actual action.


...that's the same thing anon

>>149302411
>Oh no I have to heckin walk to go to a store!!!
Would YOU want to walk around an American city?

>>149302324
>in the first place
Exactly, that's the first step. I think we could do that first step fine, because we have done it so before. It's the rest of it that never breaks out of containment.

>>149302411
>Oh no I have to heckin walk to go to a store!!!
nta but dude there are no comic stores anywhere near me they aren't that common of a store nobody knows where to find them so nobody is going to bother taking a look at their comics

The only hope is to let the shit now die and hope something better rises from the ashes

>>149302406
I've found way more gems in anime than in cartoons to be completely honest but I don't blame cartoons for that. A lot of the people that could have made cartoons close to the level of the best anime were thrown out of the industry or never found a proper fanbase.

>>149302341
Japan seems to be producing things an audience wants to see and read about
America seems to angrily go against basic level economics and business practices while not giving any kind of a flying fuck what the general audience wants or wants to pay for at all and directly attacking them over it on social media.

>>149302416
Are you sure you are not misunderstanding it? The message fits but not in the way you would expect.

>>149302423
I'm older than you, fag.
Matrix was shit and so are all films and videogames (okay Max Payne 1-2 were alright, but tons of their imitations not so much) influenced by it.
One of the worst things to happen to action genre.

>>149302253
>One Piece disproved this
One Piece is long, but still finite, there is an end in sight.

>>149301452 (OP)
Probably only fucking Sonic the Hedgehog.

>>149302331
>dying fad
Isnt the biggest shooter rn based on superheroes?

>>149302452
When oda fucking dies

>>149302406
King of the hill is my favorite anime, sub>dub

>>149302005
>Honestly, leave the comics on the fucking spinner racks in regular stores.
Stores decide what they stock. Honestly floppies are just a shit product and have been for years.

You don't get enough for the cost to be justified for most consumers. Comic companies should have transitioned to paperbacks forever ago.

But that's only one of many major problems with comic books.

>>149302464
That's another part of it, it's all Oda. Some random asshole isn't going to take over while he moves onto do a run on superman or something.

>>149301452 (OP)
Just make good stuff

>>149302253
One Piece has satisfying arcs with build ups, climaxes, and conclusions. Part of the appeal are the shifting locations that tie in with each new arc. It's not the same as neverending comics with none of the above.

>>149302423
And seriously man, come on. You actually liked Equilibrium? Ultraviolet? Those stupid vampire flicks with a cringe girlboss protagonist? I don't remember what they were called but they were just inescapable in 2000s. I kept seeing the posters for them everywhere every fucking day of my life.
You liked Wanted? (you know what? Fine. You actually might considering it's still better than the comic) That terrible Aeon Flux movie nobody but me remembers? Those Resident Evil movies where that are basically extremely expensive foreplay for the director and Milla Jovovich?
Matrix and its consequences has been a disaster for the action genre of the 2000s

>>149302447
I get that they pay in flies because they're frogs and he only has one fly, and that it's using the "moth flying out of the wallet" gag, but that gag has nothing to do with flies. And as such it reads more like they think the gag is actually about a fly flying out of the wallet, as if flies are known to hang out in wallets.
I know it's ultimately a stupid thing to get annoyed at, but I guess it just reminds me of how many things in life is people just repeating things they see, but don't actually understand, even if it's ultimately harmless.

>>149302345
>>149302329
more artists like this
Copy manga page structure, generally(more pages with less panels per page, more drawn out action and dramatic pacing).

>>149302533
You can't be serious. I'm so glad I asked you to explain how you understood it.

>>149302549
Do you know why it's a moth and not a fly that flies out of a wallet?

>>149302546
Why do comics have 20 things happening per panel anyway? Seems like the type of approach that just naturally limits action sequences as filler.

>>149302458
It would be an improvement.

>>149302532
oh fuck off 80's fag, I remember how insufferable every Gen Xer was about 2000's action movies and how they weren't as good as every generic 80's action movie.
Yes, some like Ultraviolet were bad, but that whole "um ackshually slowmotion and gunkata aren't very realistic" is fucking stupid. It's cool seeing unrealistic things in movies. Fittingly to this thread, it's the same logic why anime is overtaking American cartoons. Embracing cool ridiculous visuals.

>>149302570
They only have like 20 pages in all. If they didn't cram as much shit as they could onto each page, you'd basically get a scene per issue.

>>149301452 (OP)
The comic side stills exists but isn't the cartoon side kind of... dead? You have original from streaming sites but the main networks have just given up. I am slowly drifting away to anime.

>>149302569
Ok I can see your issue but it's a minor gripe to get hung over. Reception of gags also should take into account the understanding of the reader. If most readers get the message then why be pedantic?
Here's a comic more suited for you.

>>149302587
Slo-mo wasn't cool
Not just because "muh realism", it just looked stupid beyond belief.
It's no surprise that Wachowski eventually trooned out because only trannies could create something as cringeworthy.

>>149301964
Ive read plenty including both marvel, DC and the rare indies or Image comics

>>149302570
Less pages, and we're STILL building comics around how Sunday strips did it 100 years ago.
So basically writers feel the need to cram as much in in less pages, even with "decompression"
Manga being so stretched out ends up working for it's readability. Making a fight scene take up a chapter gives far more breathing room for the reader, while actually adding to the appeal.

Good ol' /co/mblr seething about animu while shamelessly ripping it off

>>149302266
Most comic shops I've been in have been decent.The stereotype feels like more of a 90s thing.
Tricky thing is I think most people are familiar wit depictions of comic shops over actual ones so it scares people away.

>>149302625
If you're gonna post gachaslop, at least don't post a shitty devpet like Miyabi.

I don't really use /co/ and I have a question. Why does this board have so many schizos even compared to other boards?

>>149302533
Anon, step away from the electronic device and go outside for a bit. It won't hurt you, I promise

>>149302617
>Slo-mo wasn't cool
80's old fucks haven't been the arbiters of "cool" for decades.

>>149301875
>>149301951

>>149302624
I see pages like this and feel like there's so much wasted space. Just blankets of white where nothing is being said or happening.

>>149301999
>Why are the Toonami threads the most active?
They've been slowing down A LOT and good riddance

>>149302488
This comics suck because the moment you start getting invested in a character some dipstick comes along and writes him as a completely different character

>>149301801
If /co/ is an extension of /a/ why even allow /co/ to exist?
Fuck off retard

>>149302670
>They've been slowing down A LOT
Even then they are still the fastest(because /co/ is a slow as fuck board).

>>149301452 (OP)
90% of anime are 1:1 adaptations of manga/LN. Cartoons producers should let go of originals.
>>149302441
>I've found way more gems in anime than in cartoons to be completely honest
That's because there is way more anime being created (>100 anime per year) than cartoon.

>>149302345
Add California

>>149302434
This is also the problem, comics shops only exist in medium and larger towns. If you live anywhere in one of the bumfuck 20 or so rural states, there are no comic shops at all and you are shit out of luck because we can't have spinner racks for some goddamn reason.

>>149302073
Yes and?
The alternative is chicano pillowbiters in Pixar wasting 200 millys on autobiographies on how they got molested and liked it

>>149301452 (OP)
>What is even the biggest non-superhero comic today that casuals would care about?
I don't think it's even on the top ten most popular fantasy Image Comics, but I think a properly done I Hate Fairyland cartoon would be successful and popular.

>>149302692
>That's because there is way more anime being created (>100 anime per year) than cartoon.
Or because specific directors were allowed to prospered due to and environment that was good for that? The environment that ambitious western animation directors wished was there for them?

>>149302652
Is that why Hollywood keeps trying (and failing) to make Terminator, Alien, Rambo sequels? Why we just had a Predator animated movie with a live-action one on the way?
Is this why the Karate Kid sequel series is so popular with zoomers?

>>149302473
This is where the ever constant tie-ins and events with random event books taking place in the totally off third rate title n one cares about fucks up. It's always some special book no one cares about or wants to buy but it's all too important for the main event storyline. Maybe...stop doing that shit.

>>149302570
>>149302624
It's not just the pacing of the panels, it's the entire thought process around drawing and panelling as a whole that's wrong in comics.
Your Prince Valiant comic is a good example of how many comics are drawn still today (atleast in essence)
The drawings aren't actually keyframes in any motion, but instead are "symbols" of the story taking place. They're abstracted from reality, they carry no true motion in them and no real sense of time.

Manga on the other hand are rooted in animation, every panel is a keyframe in an animation, can every panel can be easily converted to a TV storyboard.
This gives it a sense of life that comics never have.

>>149302723
Reminder that studios actually want to make a GI-Joe movie and a household name.

>>149302637
>gachaslop
>is aware of not only who the womanlet is, but her meta-role in the game
Really sums up the /co/mblr mindset

Anime, as a medium, has stuff for everyone. You want cool military sci-fi? Watch Votoms. You want a cutesy romance? You can find it. You want depressing dramas? It's there.

American cartoons are all "edgy" adult cartoons, little kids stuff or cartoons made for twitter lesbians. There's nothing a 14 year old boy would think is cool. More than that, they're not hideous looking. So that's why they've all jumped to anime and manga.

I know not every anime is a winner and there's lots of cheap trash. But there's a difference between no budget trash like whatever isekai slop was shat out and high budget trash like Invincible.

>>149302488
Yeah, I fucking hate this shit, also the winding the number right back down to issue #1 again because a new writer is on board.

THEN they get right to work ignoring half of what the last writer did, drop half the cast or kill them because new writer cannot be bothered to give a fuck about them. And the main character now has a totally different personality because new writer had totally different ideas on how the book should work.

>>149302570
>Seems like the type of approach that just naturally limits action sequences as filler.
That's pretty much how they have been playing out for the last decade or so too

>>149302747
I'm from /vg/ though.
I only visit other hobby boards like /a/, /co/ and /tv/ every once in a while.
Used to be /mu/ as well, but it's beyond redemption now.

>>149301827
anon only autistics read duck comics in America. I don’t know what your think you’re gaining by ignoring this fact. Also why do you losers do this where you compare the sales across an entire continent to a single country?

>>149302329
>give me solutions, not actual solutions
Ebin

>>149302692
>90% of anime are 1:1 adaptations of manga/LN
Not really, although they are usually much more faithful than other kinds of adaptations.

LN pacing tends to be absolutely psychotic to anyone not used to reading LNs since they are generally cleaned up versions of WNs which are what are essentially serials and on top of adjusting pacing, anime adaptations tend to simplify narratives and remove more distasteful shit, and manga to anime adaptations usually involve at the least filler and occasionally involve fixing major plot holes or unpopular creative decisions.

>>149302329
No wonder you're an alcoholic

>>149301827
Also the idea that because the US isnt buying duck comics suddenly it isnt the largest consumer base in all the world is just absurd,

Again that fact that you compare the sales across all of europe to the sales in a single country proves this lol

>>149302701
>because we can't have spinner racks for some goddamn reason.
low profits.
Same reason they got ditched in the first place. I know many of you don't spend much time browsing magazine racks in general, but take a look some time. Between many magazines being cancelled in the last 15 years, many have also shifted to being more expensive. A $15-20 "premium" magazine isn't uncommon these days. Since magazines don't make that much money, the price for individual issues is inflated to turn a profit.
That's a terrible value for comics. And newstands were what pressured comics into being more expensive in the first place which set an awful precedence that's gotten out of control.
Basically it's an awful route if you're trying to target kids and teenagers with limited money.

>>149302662
You feel the manga page is wasted? To me that builds up atmosphere.

>>149302570
They only have 22 pages and the writer really REALLY really wants to use this gig as a springboard to film script writing so they make it incredibly wordy and over filled with garbage to display how good of a writer they are. So there is mountains of fucking dialog or they repeat the same image 8-9 times on a page because they are trying to imitate a slow burn scene from a movie.

>>149302615
>but it's a minor gripe to get hung over.
Oh absolutely. I'm not saying it's a bad comic or anything, and I get that the artist has probably just seen the gag enough times to just internalize it as just a thing you draw when you want to show someone has no money, which is true, but without understanding the actual context behind the gag (The moth basically always being drawn as a ball with wings sure doesn't help either).
Hell, I'm sure almost no one understands the falling piano/anvil gag these days, since it's been a century since the issue it was based on even existed, but everyone knows about it anyway.
It's just a minor pet peeve of mine, since my mind have to sort of rearrange the information the comic is giving me, since I happen to know the origin of the gag.
It's sort of like seeing someone use a prase that is worded wrongly, but still applied correctly, like doggy dog world or a diamond dozen.
I get what they're conveying but a part of my brain still gets annoyed.

>>149302774
>ACK-shually it's a videaogayme, not a le anime

>>149302749
America doesn't respect animation and it's comics industry is just fodder for adaptations, live-action or otherwise (and even then they aren't much better than the source material)
It may be less of a slaughter if we compare the French comics scene to Japan's

>>149302723
Cobra Kai hasn't been relevant in like 4 years, even with the last few seasons. the last Karate Kid movie bombed. You're grasping onto floundering franchises, much in the way 80's fags cannot let go of the 80's.

>>149302718
But anime production environment is pretty shitty. Only KyoAni, Sciende Saru had a good environment for anime production.
And that's just the rule of mean: the more something is produced, the more there is odd/"gem" since the industry is in great demand of staff.
I've been watching seasonal anime since forever, and following a lot of staff. You can't gaslight me.

>>149302824
I'm sorry, I don't speak non-human languages.

At least recent animated shows like Scavenger's Reign or Common Side Effects are leaning into cinematic language while sticking to their style. It's a step in the right direction.

>>149302819
What the fuck even is this image?

>>149302741
>The drawings aren't actually keyframes in any motion, but instead are "symbols" of the story taking place. They're abstracted from reality, they carry no true motion in them and no real sense of time.
I'm reminded of the running joke about how much dialogue happens during fight panels. Characters be spouting out multiple paragraphs worth of dialogue during a single punch.

>>149301452 (OP)
japan just has a healthier market for entertainment
for one, there's more than 2 major publishers in manga, and the biggest one doesn't focus on a single genre with generation old ips
and it doesn't matter if a writer made something popular years ago, if they make a bad comic it just gets cancelled

american comics are far to centralized in publication, and distribution and have been for decades
this also ends up gate keeping ideas and creators from getting exposure in the industry

i'd say its best to stop being a psedou nationalist for comic book companies that don't care about you and just start viewing manga and comics as the same thing
perhaps the best bet is hope one day a webcomic gets popular enough to get a netflix show and it ends up being so popular it leads to a goldrush for webcomic ips but after that its a fruitless effort trying to fight for western comics because they're western. they do not care about you

>>149302819
Why is this so undecipherable?

>>149302329
>Open new comic company
>Offer $10000 first prize in a competition where people must submit a 20 page comic targetted towards males aged 13-25

>Works must be completely original
>Continue to pay these creators for every page they make, they must publish a chapter under the company publishing name every week to stay on this gravy train

>Only 20 titles can be published at a single time, meaning that competition is high
>Have readers vote for their favourite comics every week
>Cancel anything that goes below 15th place and replace it with a newcomer

>Newcomers are decided by who comes first in the competitions

The thinking behind this is:
>fierce competition will pressure creators to make ever better content so as to not get cancelled
>the only deciding factor is whether readers actually like it or not. This will completely eliminate woke politics without having to technically ban woke politics (which would put the company under fire)
>Originality will free the comics from ever becoming stagnant. Creators will make new and innovative comics, with no genre restrictions.
>targetted towards males 13-25 because otherwise all the comics will be yaoi romance slop. You can start another company targetted towards women if you want to capitalise on that market.

>>149302835
>But anime production environment is pretty shitty. Only KyoAni, Sciende Saru had a good environment for anime production.
But that's taking the last few years while ignoring everything behind. Anime built this environment back in the 70s while the west has pumping out HB stuff. Think about all the adult animation directors that got their start in the 70s-80s while the west only had a few since there was very little demand for adult animation. The guys that worked as inbetweeners for those anime started working as proper directors in the 00s/10s

>>149302882
Bendis

>>149302869
That's another thing.
Because comics have no real sense of time, they have no issue with putting paragraphs of text against a single panel.
In manga this never happens because each panel is a key frame and so only a small amount of text can fit within that small time window.

>>149302882
probably because you're reading a single page completely devoid of any context or knowledge of who the characters are or what the story is

>>149302902
>In manga this never happens because each panel is a key frame and so only a small amount of text can fit within that small time window.
*Laughs*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNBQFmmvRig

Comic paneling is shit, but you're taking the absolute piss.

>>149302890
What's stopping people from just submitting a ton of hastilly made comics to your competition to keep getting the $10000?

>>149302266
>>149302636
Comic shop owners are typically not nearly as shit as the stereotypes, as the guys who just sort of...hang out there all day. Those people suck. But they are also not business owners that understand don't fuck with the customers, try to make money off anyone that walks in the door, etc.

But I have definitely seen many an angry assholish comic book guy hanging out in a comic shop for long periods of time and yes, they were pieces of shit that made going there a fucking chore, who talked shit about what you were buying or holding in your hands. Seems to mostly happen in the stores that are also gaming stores with miniatures and cards, those guys just sit around all day.

>>149302840
Good ol' /co/mblr pulling out the racism card but only when woke shit is under attack

>>149302570
the discrepancy between writers and artists being separate people means the artist isn't focusing on cinematic language, they're focused on checking the boxes on the writer's script
the writer doesn't understand cinematic language so they don't write in a way that is actually good for reading sequential images

the comics that are easier reads typically are the ones where the writer and artist are actually a good team or if they are the same person

if i remember correctly Eisner and McCloud talk about this stuff in their books about comic making

>>149302694
Boston rightfully burning is due to them causing the current state of animation in Warner Brothers and in tern the rest of the industry. As much as blowing up Cali would be fun it wouldn't really help the current problem.

>>149302329
>What changes would you make?
We drop all capeshit and start publishing comics.
There will be a wiki creators can reference to, if they care about canonity, but we aren't going to waste our editors on any of that shit any longer.

If we'll have to go fully homo, then we'll start some kind of online platform with a free side, a subscription service and a promise of physical serialization once somebody hits enough subscriptions online. Also each level of service will be value-added, as in you only need to upload your pencils or page layouts to the free one, inked pages to the subscription service and colours to either your higher tier of subscription or your physical publication.

There will be a system that will allow artists to easily order and sell merch through the plattform, and we're taking a service charge from that.

AI shit goes into the free section and will be tagged.

>>149302919
>posts a literal joke that is explicitly poking fun at how stupid it is to fill panels with paragraphs
the mental retardation of /co/ never ceases to amaze me

>>149302919
That's a joke though.

>>149302876
>american comics are far to centralized in publication, and distribution and have been for decades
>this also ends up gate keeping ideas and creators from getting exposure in the industry
Anime has this thing called Shonen Jump which is like the launchpad for most of the biggest series and it is incredibly cutthroat. At any given time there will be a limited number of series running in a very popular magazine and if a series fails to keep an audience it gets dropped for the next one. Maybe something like this is missing.

>>149302776
>>149302798
Anon, when the best selling comic of all time wasn't even picked up by 2.5% of the population, and the average comic being picked up by an infinitely smaller portion of even that, that shows they're not a big consumer market of comics.
They don't have to by duck comics, but to be the supposedly largest consumer market of comics in the world, they would need to at least buy SOME fucking from of comic.
And the size off population doesn't matter because because not only do Europeans buy more comics in pure units, but they also buy significantly more per capita.
Americans just do not fucking read comics that aren't the funny pages.

>>149302942
Cut him some slack
When he tried to be an ebin shitposter he got banned out of /a/ and he's hated anime ever since

>>149302890
admiral but good luck at finding good taste makers to judge such a comic, who also understand how to get their comics to the eyes of their market, much less convincing them to buy

>>149302923
there's only 1 winner?

>>149302952
wow shonen jump no one here has ever heard of that before

>>149302919
So do you just pull double duty between this shithole and /tv/?

shonen pump and dump lol

>>149302961
>Taste makers
The readers
It would be targetted and advertised towards the mainstream
The comics would be judged by popularity
I'm confident this will naturally result in good comics

>crying about racism on 4chan
Lmao?

>>149302869
That shit is annoying,Spider-Man will spout off a whole paragraph, with a reply from the villain and then another large word bubble with a paragraph in the 1-2 seconds he is throwing a punch.

>>149302932
But manga frequently have different writer/artists and they seem to work along without being too visual or wordy.

>>149302890
We will never have anyone as based as jim shooter again

>>149302942
It is a joke panel, but the fact is, conversational manga *is* a thing.

Manga just does less of that bullshit *during action scenes*

You turned an actual point into a nonsensical fetishization of manga that doesn't even jive with reality.

By the way, that keyframe nonsense is fucking silly.

>>149302967
It's an incredibly niche machine.
Jokes aside I'm presenting information with context for the reader and that's not a bad thing.

>why are we dying?
Just look at this very thread for an example
Tranny janny thought we shouldn't see a busty italian woman, yet half of the catalog is gay pedophilia

>>149302952
yeah Jump is the biggest magazine in manga, but it being cutthroat is why said series get so big
and just because a writer has a legacy doesn't mean it stays on the magazine. who remembers Samurai 8?
while Waid still gets work, hell you might not even needed to be a good writer ever to still get work like Tom King. So many comic writers are just plain hacks

but that being said, you still have SOOOO many more manga magazines out there and are trying to appeal to niches over trying to appeal to no one

i can't imagine getting so assblasted you try to check someone's post history on an anonymous website

>>149302845

Ew, Frieren.

>>149302980
you have no imagination for statistics
how do you get your content in front of your target audience? and will your target audience even buy anything?

>>149302952
The UK's 2000AD has a similar model but the average story in an individual prog is allotted 6 pages and has extremely compressed pacing in comparison

>>149302973
I literally just googled the panel 100 girlfriends. Literally the 1st result. It's a fairly famous scene (hence why I knew that vague ass search would turn it up).

I would assume your /tv/ poster did the same.

>>149303013
Yeah getting laughed out of /a/ of all places must sting

>>149302985
i didn't say writers and artists being separate was necessarily a bad thing
more that most comic writers don't consider cinematic language and just want the story out there

>>149302985
Another writer/artist duo.

>>149302952
We used to have anthologies, you know.
It's "Action comics" and "Detective comics" because those where anthologies the characters originated from.
The problem is the American market is generally apathetic to anthologies. The reason Superman took over Action and Batman Detective,or countless other examples, is because readers just wanted to pay for the stories with the one character they liked. Kids would write in and tell them to drop the stuff they disliked. It's why attempts at print SJ in America never worked.
What does work is the online model where SJ buys you access to a library of comics. It's still the same idea, but far more viable since it's not expecting readers to purchase $10 stacks of anthologies they might not entirely enjoy.
It also helps that SJ in Japan is way cheaper than an American anthology can be. American SJ was $10 back in the 2000's for half the page count of a $5 JApanese SJ album.

>>149303005
>NOOOOOOOOOOO THE MALE GAZE IS LE HECKING EVILERINO
>have woke capeshit and steven universe clones instead
lel

>>149302985
The dynamic is different.
When a manga has a different artist and writer, that duo is more like a married couple. The two will be working very closely together, often even in the same studio everyday, and the authorship is shared between them with them both working together to produce the story

In comics, the writer produces the entire story and then hires an artist to draw it, sometimes it's not even the writer who hires them but instead an editor, and it's common for them to not even communicate with eachother outside of notes written on the page.
The Marvel Method operated like this.

I often bring up Scott Pilgrim to illustrate this point
Ask yourself, if you were an artist, what information would you require to draw a page of Scott Pilgrim?
The answer is obvious, you would need a complete, deep and intimate understanding of the story and all the nuances of its characters. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to create a convincing expression on the faces in panels that on the surface appear unimportant, but in the grander scheme are extremely important to each characters' life

>>149302985
Because manga writers understand the artist is dominant.
Where as here the writers are very dominant.

checks out
not a good look for internet detectives, i'll be honest

>>149301547
It won't, at least I don't think it will, but in order to survive the entire industry needs to adapt; and it needs to start being open to some fairly substantial changes to the status quo its gotten too comfortable with.

>>149303056
>east coast timezone

>>149302827
The French put out good stuff, or at least a variety. It really is just Americans. You'll even hear American directors complaining. Like Lord and Miller saying they wish there was more variety in animation and it wasn't all just for kids. But then still only direct kids stuff.

It's not even to say there's anything wrong with kids stuff. You should be able to have both.

>>149302992
Conversational manga are a thing, and they don't feature walls of text

I'm gonna give you an easy swing here and post deathnote, one of the most text-wall filled manga out there.
But notice how the the bottom two panels of the white hair kid's speech is broken into multiple panels to break up what would otherwise be a speech bubble that is far too large

>>149302749
>>149302876
No one ever really wants to mention that. At least not on an official basis, it's always the random fan gripe.

The US has 2 giant publishers and about a half dozen really really extra super small tiny other publishers that are more hipster-tier than entertainment. And they all stick to one genre, starring characters that were invented 60+ years ago. Anyone ever tries making a new character, some overly nostalgic for their childhood writer or editor will kill them all off and it's right back to the 60+ year old characters across the board again. While 100% of it is all for that one single demographic. Everyone else can fuck off, comics are for superheroes that were invented in 1962.

Manga has a shitload of publishers and a fucking massive list of genres for a spectrum of demographics.

>>149301452 (OP)
Why?

Invincible the series is a disservice to the comic and is utter trash.

If the choice is shitshows like Invincible, Blue Eye Samushit (yes American, tell us your perspective of a place you never lived) and other western cartoons or more Anime, including the bad ones, my choice is more Anime.

Western Cartoons are dead and we're gonna have to wait a long time to get decent shows back in rotation, that's just reality.

>>149303068
american and proud

>>149302819
>>149302932
>the writer really REALLY really wants to use this gig as a springboard to film script writing

I feel like this needs to be stated too. Comic writers all ways to launch a tv or film career off their writing. They do not particularly want to be comic writers if they even like the medium in the first place. Manga is made by manga fans who like manga and want to be manga writers. It's not a temporary setback before they can finally level up- to their actual dream.

>>149303025
They would be hosted for free on a website where you can read the first 3 chapters and the latest 3 chapters of any comic. To read the rest you must pay a subscription fee
Volume bound copies around 150 pages will be printed and sold online also. Fans of the freely avaliable digital comics will buy these as merchandise
Other merch will be sold like tshirts, keychains, pins, stickers, etc.

The comics will be advertised as widely as possible with pages and teasers being posted on twitter and youtube showing what the comic is all about.

>>149303038
blame the direct market
comic book consumers are more used to going to a specific place to buy a specific thing and not casually checking out what else is on sale

you're gonna have a hard time convincing a guy who wants to buy Batman and Superman that he should try to buy something else. maybe he will if it has batman characters as to why Batfamily is such a thing, or if its an indie comic thats a homage/parody of Superman, as to why so many indies are Evil Superman comics

meanwhile, buying a manga anthology is something as natural to japanese consumers as it is buying snack at the convivence store

so in a way american infrastructure is also why the comic market is the way it is

>>149303056
>>149303032
Stop trying to save face, dude
It's an anonymouse imageboard, not a fucking discord server
Nobody is gonna remember you after this thread is over

>>149301452 (OP)
It should be noted that nearly all of these viewers are out of Asian countries such as those from Japan itself, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and South East Asia, they are not from the west.

And the anime they do watch isn't even on Netflix, that includes the west.
>>149301688
Not the case.
>>149301859
>Making serious (not comedy) shows for adults.
Thats against everything Tex Avery stands for and will make him spin in his grave, plus if anything comedy is next to non-existence now of days, it's all action garbage and only 1 Looney Tunes Cartoons to show for it, and it's not good enough.

If you're not using animation for what it was made for then you do it in live action, simple as that, stop making Tex Avery turn in his grave and let Japan not only run the industry like it did between 1985 to 1996 but let Japan be themselves as that way we will return to the days of Red Hot Riding Hood, Dumb Hounded and What's Buzzin' Buzzard?.
>>149301928
PreCure is worth more then One Piece.
Conan is worth more then PreCure, Conan's plomblem is that Sho-Pro makes the lion's share of the profits and TMS barely gets anything from it, and most of that Conan profit on Sho-Pro's part is spent on renewing the Pokémon license every year for it's anime, thats the ONLY reason why Conan is still going.
Sazae-San is worth more then Conan.
>>149301939
Manga is about a blue earless robot cat from the future who comes to the present to fix his great grandfather's fuck ups when he was a kid, not the war sewage you just said.
>>149302100
The cost of importing these anime shows costs more then making new content, otherwise every network would just be importing anime instead of making new programs.

>>149302985
>But manga frequently have different writer/artists and they seem to work along without being too visual or wordy.
1. That's less common than single writer/artist
2. The production process for manga and comics isn't really comparable. Comics are produced more like script first shows than manga. Manga are storyboarded. Mangaka will generally have a vague story outline, but the manga will actually be scripted as it is drawn essentially.

On an incredibly related note, this difference in process is also seen in storyboard first shows.

tl;dr

>SCRIPT FIRST ALWAYS SUCKS ASS

I swear to fuck that production method needs to die. It's only really useful for productions that have little to no action.

Remember kiddos, friends don't let friends go with script first.

>>149303086
the editors are mostly right
the 10 people who buy comic books go to their LCS to buy superheroes, not casually check out what else is there

>>149303025
It's also worth noting that I fully expect the initial few comic to be total bombs as the creators will not know what to produce.
While some shitty creators will bag the first few $10000 prizes, this will actually work in my favour as word will spread about an easy to win bag of money and all you have to do is make a 20 page comic. This will attract ever more talented artists and the quality and competition will quickly reach a level where actual good comics are being made.

To rate the comics, you must also include your age and gender. If a winning comic is popular but not popular in the target demographic, it will not be considered the most popular. It must be most popular in the target demographic

>>149303120
>Stop trying to save face, dude
I didn't even know I was trying to save face. I'm not privy to the context of the /tv/ post.

>>149303079
notice how they are not in the middle of a fight trading punches?

>>149303131
Thoughts on Darwyn Cooke (DCAU storyboard artist and animator who pivoted to drawing and writing his own comics)? Look up some pages from his Parker adaptations if you aren't introduced to him yet.

>>149303120

>>149303161
>NOTME NOTME NOTME NOTME NOTME NOTME
Are you autistic?
Serious question since in /co/ you have a 50-chance
The other 50 it's a tranny

>>149303107
>Invincible the series is a disservice to the comic and is utter trash.
You can't be a disservice to something that was shit in the first place.
>Invincible is utter trash.
Yes. Both cartoon and the comic.

>>149303086
Then fuck off back to n/a/ already if you hate the very thing comic fans like, want, and will buy. Seems like the problem is YOU.

Don't come in here and demand everyone else change just for you, you fuck off and go find the thing you want. Quit trying to fuck up the thing everyone else already likes and wants to see.

Anyone know were I can find american comic sales by unit numbers?
All I can find are just lists of which one supposedly did better with nothing more than a "Dude trust me" as source for the rankings.

>>149303176
>Are you autistic?
Not to my knowledge. Are you? Seriously, why are you so obsessed over a /tv/ post. I'd think you'd be more mad about me getting the pic from reddit.

>>149303116
A lot of posters have been saying that in this thread. Comics used to be in every convenience store, but are now in special comic shops with a few posts listing reasons why they hate or cannot go to one of those too.

Yet people continue to defend the comic shops any damn way.

>>149302329
>How would you fix comics and cartoons?
>And don't say "quit with the quirky brown lesbian crying about the patriarchy," give me a REAL answer

>>149303116
>blame the direct market
No, again that's a very naive view made by someone who probably hasn't looked into actual circumstances.
For one, all this consolidation that ended anthologies was happening even before direct markets took over. Kids just wanted Batman, not Batman and Slam Bradley and TV Detective.
And the newstand market has terrible issues with distribution, which was a big factor in killing a major company like Gold Key, a company which was handling Disney's comics and many other non-superhero comics. Among other publishers who couldn't survive the 70's bust. Marvel and DC weren't dominant in the comics market until the mid 60's, before then it was largely non-superhero comics that were the big sellers between the late 40's and early 60s. Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't the code that killed all but superhero comics, but a thousand other cuts. Distribution woes being one of them.
The thing is, the direct market definitely allowed for a ton of books that would not be able to exist. You would not be able to sell Love and Rockets in a newstand, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
The direct market shouldn't be the only option today, but it's not so cut and dried as everyone suddenly deciding to primarily sell at comic shops for no reason.

>>149303182
They're kept private, but this alone is enough of a red flag that they're not doing very well.
Ocassionally some leaks will come out and they appear in the range of:
>top 3 comics sell around 80-150k
>top 10 comics under that sell 30-50k
>everything under that <10k

>>149301452 (OP)
none of these buzzwords mean jackshit

>>149303181
>you fuck off and go find the thing you want
Yeah I don't think that's a smart business model because those people did fuck off and found anime and will never come back
They only remember /co/shit when it'a a catastrophic flop like Elio and want a good cathartic laugh

>>149303181
...they did exactly that anon. That's why we have a thread about how more people are reading manga than comics right here right now.

>>149303149
talented artists who also want to do comics are harder to come by in the west because we just have worse art schools than japan because japan has generations of a healthy market and a legacy of story tellers

i mean your average manga artist had clubs of writers and artists who want to do manga since middle school. many of them who had good teachers, and even parents who know a thing or two about making art

meanwhile in america, your average aspiring comic book artist comes from a school with one MAYBE two actually competent artists who'd be even luckier than winning the lottery to also have parents who taught them how to draw and good teachers who support them

the internet helps aspiring artists a lot more these days but tl;dr american is SOOOO damn behind

>>149303201
>d. Comics used to be in every convenience store, but are now in special comic shops with a few posts listing reasons why they hate or cannot go to one of those too.
>Yet people continue to defend the comic shops any damn way.
Because newstand distribution ended up being a mess and isn't healthier today. There was a point where targeting them could've been great int he late 90's-2000's, but we're past that now.
It's a very idealistic thing to want it back, and I think there should be some form of it, but it won't save comics.
The future of comics has to be online.

we're now almost 300 posts into this thread so I'd like to restate that nowhere in OP's article does it say that people are only watching anime, only that more people are watching anime. you can in fact watch both anime and western cartoons. so all this EvW shitflinging has been for nothing.

>>149303211
i blame American infrastructure

japs often take the train and can pick up a manga on their way home and just read on the train

americans need to drive everywhere

>>149303240
Also comics are nerd shit, no one in a school is going to make a comic club or advertise that they make and read comics that is just inviting all the ridicule for just no useful reason. There is no mentorship and thst shit is kept secret until college, and maybe the special already well off few can afford art school. But comic companies cannot give a flying fuck who went to art school either so that is also not really helping much.

>>149302220
Anon you could've posted Chargeman Ken or Twinkle Nora Rock Me to push your argument.
What you posted is fucking badass though, another case for why cel is superior and why we need to take more notes from the Japanese.

>>149302094
Sites like Netflix (Of America) and Crunchyroll are not picking up Sazae-San and Chibi Maruko-Chan, those are the shows normies are watching.
>>149302184
Only in South Korea, elsewhere only Disney duck/mice comics (mostly the duck comics), Peanuts, orange cat (both of them) and Popeye are in demand.
>>149302220
Fixed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVTBMYGnwdo
>>149302254
It's not.
>>149302345
Thats against everything Tex Avery stands for, either follow his guidelines to the T or do it in live action, it's that simple.
>>149302371
No, far from it as whats going on in Japan is 20 times worse then whats going on here.
>>149302445
If that was the case shows like Tiny Toons and Animaniacs will still be the norm.

But they're not, what we're getting is Flimation with Bambi eyes and thats not want Tex Avery wants.

>Stop making action cartoons
WTF why did everyone leave???

>>149303240
>>149303149
webtoons and tapas actually does try to promote western artists who aren't just BL koreans, but the fact of the matter is even your best American artists who want to do comics are usually just normal dudes who can't keep up with the fickle audience for such a small pay

good artists who actually want to make a living off their art would rather do the patreon thing doing pin-ups or do concept art

>>149301452 (OP)
Yeah, make superhero cartoons that aren’t dogshit

>>149303281
Yeah but I've had some productive responses from the thread

>>149301578
I read a lot of comics and manga and I'd say that manga, in general but not always, does a far better job pacing its chapters, while comics struggle to find a steady footing issue-to-issue. This is partly because manga are usually released weekly, but even the large variety of monthly manga do not have these issues. If anything a lot of monthly manga are paced and written far better than the average comic you can buy today. Capeshit comics and other similarly long running pop culture characters have this endlessly issue of bouncing between nothing happening where the story is killing time or when too much is happening and everything is truncated. Either they're killing time until the next big event or hurrying up because the next big event is about to start. It never feels like they're just telling a story in appropriately sized pieces.

Obviously, that's because there's a fundamental difference between how manga and comics are made. Nearly all manga are creator-driven, made to tell their own story in their own continuity, in sequence, until they either get axed from unpopularity, or they do well enough to continue until the author finishes their story of burns out. Assistants will come and go, and editors might change, but it will be the same author making the same comic, week to week, month to month.

Western comics, however, offering creatives the dubious privilege of getting to draw or write, rarely both, for an existing character in an existing storyline, for an existing company, that has its own business plan, constantly shifting deadlines, external forces motivating and changing which characters can be used and which should be spotlighted, and so on. They're often a little longer and full color is the standard, but despite having the option to have entire teams doing every step of the process (inks, lettering, colors, backgrounds, etc) they often don't and despite having a month between every issue.

>>149303261
>t.e. Comic Shop owner trying to defend his dying business

Whelp, something somewhere somehow has to change because the current existing model is just plain not working and trying to force the market to stay the course any damn way just because is not working out either. It just turns the situation into a slow death oozing over a couple decades killing off places and companies one at a time until they are all finally dead. It's not working.

And people keep making that same spinner rack argument over and over and over and over again because we keep seeing it work elsewhere. In japan it keeps the manga industry alive, in Italy it keeps the comic industry alive, in France it keeps the manga and comic industries alive. It seems to work out just fine anywhere else in the world it is attempted. But somehow we cannot do that in the US because....we just can't okay!

>>149303323
>good artists who actually want to make a living off their art would rather do the patreon thing doing pin-ups or do concept art
I miss Guy Davis

>>149303287
>americans need to drive everywhere
that would explain why podcasts are so popular here.
could radio dramas be the future of capeshit?

>>149303293
Animatrix is mixed. Some portions digital, some cel and some going for a cel aesthetic using digital(and some 3d).

>>149303342
>But somehow we cannot do that in the US because....we just can't okay!
We just can't because stores don't want to stock them, because they don't sell, because the content is garbage, because the production pipeline is garbage and everyone working in the industry with any appreciable creative power is either an ostrich with their head in the sand or a spiteful malicious revenant who cares more about pissing people off and political signaling than telling a story. It isn't actually all that complicated.

>>149303323
>>149303149
i'm just some asshole on /co/ so take my business advice with a grain of salt but maybe a good idea would be to scout and commission already popular artists to do short stories alongside your other stuff

>>149301506
By making tons of good stuff, yes. Which the US animation industry is incapable off

>Oh hey the new TMNT issue is out!
>I wonder what fun adventures the turtles are getting into this month!
>ooohh....it's another slow burn drama story that uses the setting as an allegory for LGBT issues but using mutants going to mutant clubs and mutants hangouts
>words words words, drama, mutants complaining about not fitting in
>There is not a single fight in this whole issue, or even a villain appearing...

>>149303198
Because it hurts whatever retarded argument you thought you were making
>oh the people who post this image hang out in the Unofficial Alcoholic General in /tv/
>and they get bullied out of /a/ lmao
It doesn't actually matter if it's (you)

>>149303365
probably, if you're a story teller audio is the way to go
i mean look at audible and warhammer's black library

>>149303366
>>149303293
Wait isn't all of the animatrix digitally colored?

>>149303240
Competition will fix that very quickly
With only 20 slots available, all of a given quality, if you want to get into that, you have to make something just slightly better than the worst stuff on that list. Repeat this 4-5 cycles and the minimum quality needed will be so high that anyone wanting to get in will have to start learning how to draw better

>Whoa Wally is back! finally!
>Let's see what adventure he is getting into, I loved reading his book growing up!
>oh....it's a drama story about how he is sad, and goes to a place full of sad heroes who are sad, everyone is sad...everyone has PTSD
>Absolutely no action happens in this issue, and I genuinely hate Wally now

Even porn comics in manga have good reading flow. There's no excuse to crap everything into unexpressive paintings (panels).

>>149303318
Oh hey Famicom.
>what we're getting is Flimation with Bambi eyes and thats not want Tex Avery wants.
One thing I'll give Filmation is that they at least kept their animation in house, modern studios are now even lazy to do that now.
>>149303366
Oh? Interesting.
>>149303375
Exactly if comic artists wanted the industry to thrive they need to remove the faggy shit amd actually focus on the actual audience and not 30 to 40 year old single wine bitches.

>>149303375
>We just can't okay!!!! Go to my...err...uhh....go to your local comic shop and spend money there!!!!

>>149303398
that kinda sounds like cope

>it's a /co/mblr twists itself into knots trying to find any explanation besides the most obvious one, woke shit, episode
My favorite

>>149303323
Webtoons is ran by idiots. There's no way to actually find comics on there that aren't the top 5 promoted romance comics. It's corrupt through and through. You have to pay them to get noticed

>>149303437
comics were faltering before you were born, culture war zoomer. It's the distribution system.

>>149303423
you're implying that you're getting the perfect audience to be the taste makers

truth is a lot of good stories go by the wayside because they didn't know how to get it in front of the right eyes

marketing is a lot harder than just making something good and hoping word of mouth will spread before the money dries out

>>149303436
What can you expect from an alcoholic who fanatically defends dogshit comicbooks purely because he hates anime?

>>149303340
Continuing: The other big divide is that lots of manga is officially and legally available online. Weekly Shounen Jump, and Jump Plus, and Viz's weekly releases, are all free and legal and so on. This is on top of them being distributed every week in big collections that give people a ton of comics to read at their leisure. Meanwhile, for the price of a Weekly Shounen Jump magazine (like 2-4USD depending on exchange rates), you can maybe get one comic. One comic whose author and artists may change between issues, whose story may or may not be going anywhere, and which can be axed or rebooted or retconned at any time. Also, there's endless industry drama between the publisher, distributor, and the stores who have been getting screwed by the other two for decades, if they're even still open.

It's not just a bad way to make comics and tell stories, but it's a horrendous way to do business. It's offputting to the customers who have to deal with this shit and either turn to digital piracy, the superior product, or they drop comics entirely because the quality is so schizophrenic. Which then harms other non-capeshit comics which are telling more "manga-like" stories (they're just serialized stories written by smaller teams that aren't beholden to capeshit corporate politics) because when customers stop showing up to comic shops, they stop seeing other comics, which won't get ordered, won't get bought, and won't get read, all because Marvel and DC are up their own asses again with yet another annual event or "new reader jumping in" relaunch.

>>149303377
That would work only if those artists are already doing comics.
The passion must be in comics and not illustration.

American comics are plagued by artists that absolutely despise comics and only want to draw covers. They turn internal pages into glorified illustrations, hoping to sell the inks later on

>>149303446

>>149303442
>replies
You people just never learn, do you?

>>149303439
romance is top 5 because its popular

>>149303214
>top 10 comics under that sell 30-50k
Damn, duck comics sell about 40k in my own country and we only have around 6 million people.
Pretty sure stuff like the localized version of Beetle Bailey is around the 5-10k mark too.
Did I get gaslit, and cape isn't actually an American stable, or was it significantly bigger in the past?

>>149302749
>Anime...
Outside of stuff like Sazae-San and Chibi Maruko-Chan which is just as flat and stiff as Family Guy and Bob's Burgers thats seen as "only for geeks and nerds".

Romance and Drama do not belong in animation, keep that shit to live action where it belongs, plus that market is reserved on western produced or K-Dramas anyway which are 100% live action, that market hates animation.

>There's nothing a 14 year old boy would think is cool.
Bugs Bunny, Droopy, Popeye, Donald Duck, Woody Woodpecker, Heckle and Jeckle, Baby Huey and Mr. Magoo will like to have a word with you.
>>149302798
They are, same with the mouse comics, they're just not the vocal type as America would rather talk about Popeye and Peanuts instead.
>>149302799
>Since magazines don't make that much money.
Famitsu will like to have a word with you.
>>149302835
TMS as well.
>>149302876
Not true as explained here >>149303318

>>149303452
>yet another annual event or "new reader jumping in" relaunch
they do this because retards who don't even read comics keep complaining about not knowing where to start

>>149303458
Yes and there's a market for it that should be capitalised on, but I don't care about that market.
The same can be said for childrens stories, there is money in it, but that's not what I care about.
I want to sell cool boys comics that appeal to the same audience as shonen manga, and to do that, it must be restricted to that demographic and not be totally drowned out by more popular genres

>>149303395
There were fights during every issue of the Mutant Town years, they were just extremely low-stakes and unimportant and short, which was the real problem. Editorial mismanagement and big event/crossover writing took priority and fucked over the comic's ability to have anything resembling a real plotline.

Then they crashed that plane with no survivors, and hired a guy who does nothing but fights and arguing, and also the villain never appears, and it's endless drama about mutants not fitting in, also.

>New Amazing Spider-Man came out today!
>I wonder what cool fun adventures Pete is getting into this week!
>Oh........it's a really extra wordy drama about how he cannot make ends meet, is out of money,
>He does get into a tussle with Boomerang on page 7....only on page 7.
>And there is no resolution, just four panels of him fighting Boomerang and then it jumped back to the weepy drama about Pete's life sucking and how he might not make rent.
>god damn there are a lot of word bubbles in this....

>>149303475
It's why most people prefer Manga because Mangaka actually number their volumes instead of relying on different names and variations.
Just a simple "volume 1" and they always explain everything in the first volume.

>>149303454
illustrators understand cinematic language so they can make good comics
problem is they are more used to spending days or even weeks on a single drawing.

you can go to art station and find good artists there but everyone understands opportunity cost
if you're a young artist who wants to grow their resume, some new comic start up might not be the best option for you

>>149303455
While on the subject, why do you think the polish Helltaker guy decided to ape anime artstyle instead of calarts beanmouth for his shit?

>>149303464
>Bugs Bunny, Droopy, Popeye, Donald Duck, Woody Woodpecker, Heckle and Jeckle, Baby Huey and Mr. Magoo
>things that 14 year old boys think is cool

Holy fuck you are outrageously out of touch with what kids like
You couldn't pay a 14 year old to care about that shit.
You could drop the entire collection of all of those series from the sky into a school playground and nobody would even touch them

>>149303475
They complain that they don't know where to start because it's not clear where they are supposed to start. Omnibuses and TPBs are never kept in print long enough. Titles and subtitles change. One character's story can start in their self-titled book and end in a spin-off comic that only lasted 6 issues. Reading lists often need to be put together by fans because clear communication with potential customers is not a capeshit priority for some reason.

>>149303442
>Anon A says it's absolutely, positively NOT the distribution system, it;s all 100% wokeslop
>Anon B says it's the fact that its not on newsstands and no other reason, readers are whiny bitches that refuse to patron their local comic shop!

...maybe it's both?

>>149303318
>Only in South Korea, elsewhere only Disney duck/mice comics (mostly the duck comics), Peanuts, orange cat (both of them) and Popeye are in demand.
are you looking at market sales from the last year or the last 100 years?
because i'm not sure if your average 15-25 action comic reader gives a shit about duck and mouse comics anymore

>>149303507
He wasn't aping a style as much as he was just drawing the way he likes to draw. He wasn't chasing a trend, that's just what his art looks like.

>>149303342
>irony of posting a reaction image based on a franchise that only exists because of comic shops beng willing to buy a book made by two guys in Massachusets
don't be a retard, anon. I'm not saying they should only be in comic shops at all, I agree they need other venues.
But trying to make things like they were in the 1960 when it was a faulty, ailing model even back then? It's not a matter of "If you build it, they will come." It's making sure they're actually distributed in a way as to be profitable.
> In japan it keeps the manga industry alive, in Italy it keeps the comic industry alive, in France it keeps the manga and comic industries alive
You know what's a massive difference with those countries over a good deal of the US? People can actually WALK around. They can encounter these books on the stands to buy them, and they actually circulate because of that.
A spinner rack in a gas station in Arizona isn't getting the same as even a small magazine vendor in a small french town.

>>149303510
Idk if it was me I'd go for the older cooler cartoons over the shitty modern ones. People still love Tom And Jerry Anon even to the point China is making an original movie.
Why do you think SpongeBob is still on? People want that kind of creativity back.

>>149303507
>he's doing it again

>>149303506
No no, completely wrong. Illustrators have no grasp for motion whatsoever.
If you must hire people who are not already comic artists, hire animators.
Comics must have motion, they must have action.
Illustrators, despite their fancy skills, have no ability to draw this kind of art at all, and serve only to ruin comics with their static poster-esque drawings

>>149303281
>you can in fact watch both anime and western cartoons
HERESY!

>>149303519
you also forgot price

I'm not paying $5-6 for an individual 22 page comic that is actually just 1/20th of an overall story stretched out over two years and at least three other books I don't give a shit about that releases monthly so there's lots and lots of time between these issues to forget that massive overall long winded story.

>>149303442
>muh hecking distributiuonerino
Yeah so why is manga eating capeshit's lunch?

>>149303548

Hey, if wanting to watch the new Panty and Stocking is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

>>149303495
>word bubbles

>>149301452 (OP)
Actually make good westerm shit again.

>>149303556
because manga doesn't use the same distribution method as comics you fucking retard

>>149303281
It would be fine if we could talk about some /a/ stuff here and remove that shitty rule.
/tv/ allows it why can't we? It's retarded to gatekeep a dead board.

Just wanted to point that while this thread is pretty civil compared to the usual EvsW shittery, I am happy that it exists because it makes that retard that hates anime and spammed the Rise thread mad kek.

>>149303532
Spongebob is nothing like a single example you just posted, but even then, it's not nearly as popular as anime.

You want to know what's popular with kids? Go look at what kids play as in videogames, what their profile pictures are, what they cosplay at conventions. No kid is dressing up as Popeye at comic con, but they are dressing up as Chainsaw Man

>>149303571
And yet it's making 10 times more money.

>>149303527
Your argument falls flat when one has actually been to France, it's MORE difficult to get around to various places and to the local store for majority of the people living there. Americans can get anywhere they want on their own on their own time. And they still seem to have more difficulty. Most French walk miles to anything or have to stick to public transportation, they do not as a nation all live in walkable Portland neighborhoods like hipsters.

or because you are a fucking dumb 12 year old talking shit you have no idea about.

>>149303556
For the cost of 2 comics, you get half a dozen or more chapters of a given series, neatly labeled with a big number on the spine and cover, and then the whole thing can fit neatly on your shelf or in a stack, usually with an aesthetically pleasing uniform spine illustration. If you're autistic enough to read comics in the first place, manga is laser targeting your autismal tendencies in every possible way.

>>149303573
this is a board for western comics and cartoons.

>>149303571
>>149303599
Damn so not only did they come late to party by a magnitude of decades, but they scored a better distributor right out of the game AND are moving enough units to keep said distributor happy?
If anything it just makes the entire western comicbook industry look inept by comparisson

>>149303539
not every comic needs to be battle shonen dude

your modern illustrator is studying more from movies and choreographed and real action than they are from academic drawings and sitting models these days

>>149303579
>but they are dressing up as Chainsaw Man
Exactly, everyone wants to talk about anime and I think that "Eastern origin" rule should be removed.
>>149303594
Nta but I've noticed Walmart sells Manga now and they have a pretty decent selection, it's mostly normie shit though.

>>149303575
I wonder what goes on in the heads of guys like that. Hundreds of posts just to seethe and jump at shadows about trannies and brown people, like that at all serves as a convincing argument for anyone in the thread.

>>149303599
You want an industry overturned because you are poor?
The solution to your problem is get a better job. It might actually improve some more aspects of your life than having to read nip funnybooks.

>>149303599
>If you're autistic enough to read comics in the first place, manga is laser targeting your autismal tendencies in every possible way.
Minus the shifting publisher logo placement

>>149303609
>If anything it just makes the entire western comicbook industry look inept by comparisson

YES THATS THE ENTIRE POINT YOU FUCKING IMBECILE

>>149303575
it's true, i'm the retard who hates anime and spammed the Rise thread and this thread makes me very mad.

>>149303619
>I'M A HAPPY PAYPIG WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE?!
>JUST MAKE MORE MONEY LOSER
Lmao imagine thinking this is a rational argument for why anyone should read capeshit.

>>149303612
It's weird how when it is an American comic, the distribution through mediums like common stores is impossible and unreliable, but it totally works when it's manga. Somehow it's not impossible.

>>149303623
And yet here you are running damage control for those retards instead of demanding heads be rolling

>westerns artists will look at this and salivate about cramming in more text in the white spaces

>>149303640
do you have some kind of mental disability?

The problem with comics is the same problem with movie studios - too much of the industry is built around an ever-dwindling list of IPs that the executives bank everything on.

Publishers and studios need to shift back into the mindset they both had 30-40 years ago where you just try tons of new and interesting shit. You don't make a handful of things that try to appeal to *everyone*, you make a bunch of things that each try to appeal to *someone*. You go in with the mindset that the majority of what you try won't land, won't find an audience, will flop, or go unnoticed, but *some* of what you produce or publish will be popular or sleeper hits or find its mark.

This is the model manga and anime work off of - about 90% of new manga and anime series get canned after their first volume/season, but the 10% that succeeds fund the industry and keep people trying new shit.

>>149303526
So what makes him happy as an artists is drawing cute animeesque girls and not sexless beanmouth girlbosses?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm really makes you think

>>149303629
I always see some comics sitting in clearance and with Manga they actually had to put a sign telling people they can only buy 1 per person.
Just crazy to think about, it's like the 2000s all over again because now more and more people are switching to anime/manga due to the lack of good cartoons on nowadays.

>>149303611
You don't understand

Pic related has no motion in it whatsoever, even though it features characters obviously in motion.
Because it has been drawn by an illustrator and not a comic artist.
There is no focus on timing, on panel-to-panel motion. It is just a pretty picture, it is not alive.

This is one of the things that is ruining comics

>>149303510
No, you're the one that is out of touch with what kids like.

Back when I was 14 all we talked about was Bugs Bunny, Droopy, Popeye, Donald Duck, Woody Woodpecker, Heckle and Jeckle, Baby Huey and Mr. Magoo and their related characters such as Daffy Duck and Tom and Jerry.

The only anime we talked about was Kirby: Right Back At Ya! and Hamtaro, and for the later that was only for the humans, namely Laura Haruna, Kana Iwata, Mindy O'Hara (since 2004 was the year she made her debut), June Philips and Kylie Mitchels, also Maria.

We would be talking about Mirumo De Pon if it had a US release, Katie Minami is excellent, but not as excellent as Laura Haruna.

If the entire collection of all of those series from the sky into a school playground everyone will be picking it up like hot cacks, MeTV Toons and the recent Warner Archive Blu-Rays are proof of this.

>>149303643
SHUT UP CHUD LOOK AT THAT FREE REAL ESTATE ON ALL THE PANELS, IMAGINE THE SELF FELLATING FAGGOTRY BULLSHIT I CAN SPEW ON EACH PANEL

>>149303609
>entire western comicbook industry look inept by comparisson
Not just look, they are inept by comparison.

I've never really seen an industry self sabotage quite like the way comic companies will. It's incredible to witness.
>They cancel successful books that bring in revenue all because the editor did not like reading it in his own personal childhood.
>Intentionally make the numbering system a fucking impossible mystery to anyone that does not make out charts and graphs to map it all
>rotate around writers that may not even be familiar with the series or even a good fit for the genre at all because their name is popular this week
>Keep all stories tied to shit that happened decades ago and require all readers to spend half their time on wikis trying to figure out what in the fuck the references are
>cancel all distribution and make the product as niche and hard to find as they possibly can, remove product from entire regions of the country too!

>>149303647
I'm a heterosexual male who wants cool action sequences and hot babes, accoding to the gatekeepers at Markek and DC I'm not the target audience anymore

>>149303657
Obviously, but there are people who find happiness drawing beanmouth shit also. They have horrendous taste and worse opinions and are not worth considering because most of them are laboring under the delusion that the simplistic, popular style of the times will one day land them their own Steven Universe-type show under one of the Big 3 studios.

>>149303661
Bro go on Roblox right now and ask kids what they think of those franchises
99% chance none of them have even heard of any o them outside of Maybe Donald Duck and Bugs Bunny

When were you 14? the dark ages?
You are soooo out of touch you don't even realise it.

>>149303628
You're not American are you? This is the most common response to everything over here.

>>149303629
Again, this is because people actually buy manga and therefore stores are willing to devote shelf space to them. Let's say we have a magic wand, and we wave it so that tomorrow every single place where manga is sold an equal number of comic books are sold alongside it. Within a year, most of those comics will be off the shelves and we will be right back to where we started. Is there a single young Spider-Man fan who wants to read The Adventures of Paul, who will spend their or their parents' limited money on "ooh, I bet THIS pisses you off, huh Spidey fans"? Or are they going to spend less money for more content that is not actively hostile to them?

The problem is the product. It is genuinely that simple. Any attempts to get around this basic, fundamental fact is going to run into problems. If you make a product nobody wants to buy, you cannot sell it. I do not understand why this is so controversial for comic fans and the comic industry.

>>149303489
I think TMNT's downfall as a franchise is that it never got a villain as memorable and how do kids these days call it? As iconic as Shredder.
Say what you will about Batman and Jokerwank, there are tons of cool villains who could always be used and the story would still be exciting.
If I'm tired of Joker, I could just go read a Riddler or Bane or Two-Face story.
With TMNT you have only two choices.
>it's Shredder... again
>some really boring and forgettable villains, they can be aliens, gangsters, mutants but that's only skin deep. Outside of that they're boring

>>149303686
Yes they're so oppressed, not only do they get a 200 million check to make self-insert generational trauma shit but they also get to keep their jobs after it bombs AND they shittalk the audience and their bosses

So oppressed

>>149303660
just what exactly do you think cinematic language is?
what i posted is meant to tell one thing, a single moment
that is good

your thing is bad because (and i'm aware you think it is bad) its trying to tell several moments in a single page. its more fitted as splash art than a comic

this honestly isn't the artists fault, they are clearly competent but with how comic book writers work see here >>149302932
they just need to make sure they tell as much of the script in 20 pages so they make shit like this

>>149303656
>This is the model manga and anime work off of
That is absolutely not the model anime works off. The (primary, there are a couple secondary models) anime model is absolutely batshit and I don't think would ever work in the west and involves soliciting investors for taking a pitch to air with the investors getting a share of the profits from the show based on their initial investment. Shit's treated like selling stock.

And the manga model varies by magazine. What you're describing is used at a handful of larger publishers.

>>149301452 (OP)
>Is there some way to counteract this?
counteract?
Nigga, if there was a way, it would have been done by now. That shit would have happened.
>>149303457
>You people
people?
Nigga what the fuck you talkin' about? What >>149303442 said "was" true. Comics have been a laughably dead medium/media for decades. In the goddamn reboot of DC Comics with The Man Of Steel, by John Byrne, in those very fuxkin' pages in 1986, Byrne points out that Comics have been dying going INTO 1986, so how in the flying fuck are you retarded enough to say that recent politics started the comic industry's demise?
Imagine thinking the modern landscape started the comic industry's demise.
For fuck's sake comics were dead 20 years before you were born.
Nigga you might as well say "woketards" and "leftists" destroyed the western movie. Donald fuckin' Trump wouldn't even say that.

>>149303696
>eurofag
Why am I not surprised? Your entire region is made of paypigs, ruled by paypigs.

>>149301527
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. You duckfags are delusional

>>149303723
They're not animated. They're not even thinking of animation. It's a completely different skill set and it makes hte difference between good comics and bad comics

Comics will never be popular until they learn how to be animators

>>149303749
There is the death of comics in terms of going from mainstream to niche, and there is the death of comics in terms of "for some reason, only this other type of comic is successful."

>>149302953
>that shows they're not a big consumer market of comics
I notice you specified “of comics” when that wasn’t at all my contention and has nothing to do with anime or cartoons. Concession accepted.

>>149303702
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Shredder makes for a solid threat to the turtles. Controls a small army, is a threat to the city, but rarely goes any bigger than that. He's something that 4 brothers and their handful of friends can butt heads with.

Krang and Ch'rell are similarly iconic, but they are big threats. Global threats that will genocide billions and will try to often. Even characters like Bishop, who can be awesome pure antagonists, introduce a national-level armed force against the Turtles that isn't as easy to resolve as one ninja warlord in Manhattan.

>>149303721
Maybe comparisons like these shouldn't be made since they haven't aired yet but think about all the anime movies getting released this summer: Virgin Punk, Chao, Lupin, As One and Hyakuemu(that's without considering shounen stuff). Yeah some of those will be trash but there is so much more variety and interest in them compared to the announcements for summer western animated movies.

>>149301578
>>149302168
The best way I can describe it is that anime utilizes about a dozen or so archetypes but places them in incredibly novel situations where the writers unique style and concepts are allowed to take center stage.
For instance I have been reading Maison and the Man-eating Apartment recently and the main character Maison is basically just another dutiful and determined, but also openminded girl, which is used as a vessel to explore the near post-humanity techo slumscape Apartment building, which exists in stretched out time in a single moment before the end of the world.
And its not like comics like this can exist in the west, its just that there is no way the big two would ever get a book like that off the ground, and in the indie sphere it would get 4 issues in which the weird techo apartment and its mysteries take a backset to the author wanting to u8se it as a blatant metaphor about trauma or some such.

And comics have been able to do this before.
The entire Steeljack storyline of Astro City is a great microcosm that if it was a manga would of had and additional 40 chapters of other minor cases and character events building up to the major mystery getting resolved.

>>149303680
And you conveniently forgot to list the wokeshit, which by itself filters potential new customers like nothing else.
People, normal regular ass people not just 4chan chuds and discord pedophiles, are now trained to recognize it and label it as dogshit.
It's a visual fucking medium, if your visuals are unappealing then you're just not gonna have customers.

>>149303702
Maybe part of the reason TMNT declined is simply that it's dried up
Not everything has to be a huge hit forever and ever. Things appear, become popular fads, and then fade away, being replaced by new things

>>149303771
>Comics will never be popular until they learn how to be animators
Can you please stop?

>5 Dollar for 15-20 pages, so now you need the content to be worth something
>Fill book with either mind numbing bitching about whatever pet peeve the writer had that week, or some of the worst art and/or paneling trying in a vein attempt to convey some form of action
>Locate distributors in the worst locations possible, so now if a person were willing to waste a bit of money out of simple morbid curiosity, they won't even do that
Gee, I fucking wonder what happened...

>>149303810
>And you conveniently forgot to list the wokeshit, which by itself filters potential new customers like nothing else.
Customers filtered by "wokeshit" aren't new.

>>149303828
If you think this is animation you're retarded.
This is not animation, this is just incompetence.
This is an illustrator attempting to depict motion but who has no understanding of animation at all.

It's simple. Comics are interested in making posters with every page rather than making a storyboard. They want to make cool action poses which can be easily transferred to action figures: the real reason why anyone is drawing these comics.

>>149303828
Nat but Watchmen is an exception, not the rule. And Miracleman was better.

>>149303766
lol, most cape gets outsold by duck comics in a country of 6 million people >>149303463

>>149303788
See >>149301452 (OP)
>What is even the biggest non-superhero comic today that casuals would care about?
>comic
No wonder comics don't sell in the states. You can't even be bothered to read the fucking OP.

>>149303524
The average 15-25 comic reader won't shut up about the Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse comics, problem is that they're not American as Americans will rather be talking about Popeye and Peanuts instead.
>>149303579
SpongeBob is light years more popular then anime, it did kill off Pokémania back in 1999 after all.

The video games kids are playing is stuff like Mario and Kirby, just like their adult counterparts.

>This part of the post also goes for...
>>149303612
Nobody is dressing up like characters from Chainsaw Man because it's fart too violent for kids, they still dress up like Popeye.

>>149303846
Gibbon is not depicting motion here, it is emulating Ditko's sense of drama.

>>149303614
Probably lack of self-control. But it's really obvious that he is a newfag. He started claiming every battle in actually classic and beloved anime like Cowboy Bebop were shit. Imagine being that delusional.

>>149303844
Damn so they ran out their actual customers(straight into the open arms of manga&anime) and the new vibrant diverse customer base never materialized?
Woah!

>>149303846
Speaking as someone that thinks Watchmen is an ass comic that had a horrible impact on the industry, you're a fucking idiot. The beat for beat pacing of the comic is a deliberate element of Watchmen.

The shit you are arguing is nonsense and you are distracting from discussion of actual fucking issues with western comic composition. You don't understand what you're talking about and you reek of a dipshit trying to sound smart.

>>149303870
Show me a picture of someone dressing up as Popeye who isn't a boomer, I dare you

If the Rippaverse and Comicsgate is any indication, take out the wokeshit or divorce creators from the wider industry and they'll still make capeslop
The only comic that gets talked about from that circle is Kamen America and solely because it's aping manga

>>149303798
Why not?
It's perfectly apt comparison about how anime can turn a profit with a little help while beanmouth shit faceplants even with all the financial crutches in the world

>>149303908
Most Americans cosplay Hank Hill unintentionally.

>>149303903
Watchmen is pretentious. It disguises lazy panelling as artistic choice
It tries to be the Stanley Kubrick of comics, when what comics really need is the Osamu Tezuka of comics

>>149303687
They have, they won't shut up about them.

I was 14 back in 2004.

You're the one who is out of touch.
>>149303721
Just make canon Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Goofy films, it's that simple.
>>149303908
Thats a AI rendered picture.

>>149302392
>And the movies are just fluctuating
My ass it is. Quit being a zealot and accept it's over.

>>149303594
Just being able to get around easier doesn't mean Americans actually will go around. Which is why online shopping has overtaken so many stores, and why I think there should be more of a push to online spaces. It's just much easier on logistics too.
Make comics exclusively for places like Amazon that focus on being cheap and affordable. The DC compact comics are great.
Most people, if they buy physical manga, are buying online. Bookstores to an extent, but almost anyone who's been buying manga for a significant amount of time will find there's a lot of times where bookstores won't have something you're looking for.
When they do sell manga in places like Wal-mart, it's generally either the first volume or the current volume, and only a few popular examples. It's not where people are primarily purchasing manga; they sell them because they already sell so much it's viable to sell there too. But if they had to rely on retail stores they wouldn't be selling anywhere close to what they do.
Ask most people under 20 how they discovered manga, the answer would probably be online.
If I was to target the Wal-mart/newstand market, I'd aim for something like this
>format similar to the Essentials/Showcase black and white books Marvel and DC used to do, reprints of 10-20 issues so it's a big book
>Essentials retailed for about $20, so if you can do half(about 23-50 pages for $10) that's a fairly good deal
>releases every 3-4 months, because monthly turnover in most places is limited.
That's a fairly simple and effective way to do it and would be priced competitively with manga at 200 or so pages for $7

>>149303926
Absolutely deranged

>>149303939
No, you're the deranged one.

>>149303872
>Gibbons is not depicting motion here
He is actually. The PoV is pulling back as Rorschach walks across the scene, but even if there wasn't motion, the sense of time is preserved, as it is across the comic.

Sense of time is like the ONE thing Watchmen does well.

>>149303872
Well it's shit and boring.

>>149303910
There are a ton of issues, yeah, but fundamentally, if the car has no engine then the cracked windshield is not the most fundamental problem. There really needs to be a top-down cleaning house, a rethinking of what stories are told, why, in what format etc., but even before that all the garbage needs to be removed.

>>149303903
I mostly understand his point but watchmen was not a good example of this since it's one of the very few western comics that understands how to use it's panels properly.

>>149303908
On the last con I went to a cute girl cosplaying this character was nice to me so I bought a bunch of stuff from her booth

>>149301452 (OP)
Fucking casuals ugh. They ruined it.

>>149302392
>muh hecking mercherino

Cue all the untouched unsellable shit from nuStar Wars, Disney and the MCU

>>149303972
That picture is AI generated you know.

>>149303872
He's absolutely trying to depict motion, and he's failing at it.
He's failing at it because he is a complete amatuer at depicting motion.
His level of understanding of animation is at the level of the 1800's phenakistoscope, it's practically primitive.
He believes you can communicate motion by simply drawing frame A and frame B with no connection between them other than time

>>149303886
Ah yes, famously not woke anime and manga. People like you only bitch about wokeness when shit sucks. You'll guzzle wokeness down when it doesn't.

What actually happened is trash writers tried to chase social trends and failed because they're trash writers and their trash customers won't shut up about how the trash writers are bad now because of wokeness when in reality they always fucking sucked and they were only propped up by pandering to their increasingly irrelevant/dead trash customers.

>>149303977
What is this, 2012 /v/?

>>149303948
The point of the sequence is not Rorschach's walking or the "camera move" itself. Rather, the point of the PoV shift is specifically to linger on this moment and to crucially establish the symbol of the badge/clock as an important symbol. It's almost about a lack of motion, in that despite things happening "around" it, this lingering is dramatically significant in terms of "the things that matter to the story." Note that we do not see the badge tumbling through the air, but the aftermath.

>>149304002
THIS is animation. There is no comic that even remotely comes close to this and it's not even funny

>>149302723
>Is that why Hollywood keeps trying (and failing) to make Terminator, Alien, Rambo sequels?
Those IPs can still work fine today. The issue is lack of talent.

>>149303970
>I mostly understand his point but watchmen was not a good example of this since it's one of the very few western comics that understands how to use it's panels properly.
I understand the point he's aping, but if he actually understood it, he wouldn't have attacked watchmen precisely because as you said, it understands how to use its panels properly.

The dude doesn't fucking understand what he's trying to say, and it shows, and it's pissing me off because he's arguing very badly for a point I have fucking made before.

>>149303957
It's all downstream from Wertham, Goldwater and their cronies having a moral panic over EC comics
Americans were buckbroken into making capeshit for 50+ years thanks to busybodies

>>149304026
this is a very weak example. Nothing about this feels particularly well done at all.

The most telling thing about East vs West threads is they just don't happen on /a/, they get ignored all the way down to page 10
Meanwhile in this shithole it's literally the fastest thread in the entire catalog, you retards know western shit sucks dick but you'd prefer to eat that shit instead of admiring to yourselves it's shit

>>149304010
>ACK-shually when you look at it through my very specific lens Denjiro is trans and all of Demon Slayer is about coming to terms with who you really are
Oh you're one of those? LEL

>>149304035
All you have to do is post a comic that has good motion.
But you can't, because there aren't any, because no comic artist has any talent.

Perhaps you could find something from Jack Kirby, he knew how to animate, but he's been dead for a long time and bringing up such ancient examples is embarassing.

>>149304026
Donald Duck and Popeye will like to have a word with you.

>>149304046
Then why was Dell selling better than DC in the 60's?

>>149303463
>Damn, duck comics sell about 40k in my own country
Source?

>>149302743
>Reminder that studios actually want to make a GI-Joe movie and a household name.
CoD was huge back then and Hasbro never capitalized on it with GI Joe. Shit's dumb.

>>149304060
Old comics were considerably better than new comics because they new how to animate. Many of them got jobs at Disney.

>>149304065
They had funny animal comics that DC lacked.
>>149304071
Not as huge as Mario.

>>149304010
>famously not woke anime and manga
NTA but yes? When I look at anime, I see feminine women who are trying to appeal to men, not brown lesbian lectures about the evils of the male gaze. Do you have some other definition of wokeness which is more based on getting angry at Bush-era Republicans than what The Chuds are actually complaining about? Because I'll give you a hint. When you try to link Ranma to modern LGBTQ+ virtue signalling, everyone who has read even a single page of the original comic is going to dismiss you because within the logic of the manga there is not "Ranma discovering that the patriarchy was keeping her down" but "yeah, masculinity and femininity both have good and bad points, and sometimes people can take it too far in either direction." You will never get a "yeah, masculinity is not inherently evil" from woke types. It is the same reason the "video games were always woke, just look at Samus the Girlboss!" when Samus is an attractive woman who the player is encouraged to see as attractive, and is not a spiteful HR tumblrcunt.

>>149304071
Hasbro missed the boat on multiple things. They’re a very woke company and so they were all aboard IDW taking the piss out of GI Joe rather than going all in on (what they would call) jingoistic war media

>>149304016
Eh, I'd argue the foosteps Rorschach leaves behind helps time out the scene to create the feel of a lingering shot. Regardless, the point is the page deliberately captures the passage of time. The motion is not itself the focus of the scene, but it helps to establish the scene. It would have been just as easy to have the panels have nothing moving in them as the shot got further and further back, but you'd have lost the sense of time in favor of what would have felt like a freeze frame.

>>149304035
Yeah I agree. Well whatever, the thread had some proper discussion so it's not the end of the world if a little of is shittier at the end.

>>149304052
One Piece is one of the most popular manga on earth. It's time to stop talking.

>>149304071
>>149304107
I don't understand why they didn't just turn GI Joe into Metal Gear. You can even keep the anti-war stuff, just make it fun at the same time!

>>149304085
>>149304053
Thoughts on >>149303171

>>149304107

Hasbro didn't care what IDW did as long as it never negatively impacted toy sales.

>>149304110
>the motion is not the focus of the scene
then the motion is lost.
The motion must be instant, it must assault hte viewer with its presence. The reader must look at the page and almost see the action moving before his very eyes. If it can't do that, it's failed completely.

>>149304133
This is an imageboard, post it

>>149304110
The point I am getting at is that >>149304136 is wrong. Rorschach does not need a strong line of action to convey his walking motion, because that is not the point of the page within the dramatic structure.

>>149304124
You mean the pro-monarchy manga where all the evils in the world are caused by a shady unseen unelected World Government, where all the women look hot as fuck?

>>149304126
Hasbro tries way too hard to be as inoffensive as possible because they want their target audience to be as young as 4 years old.
They had no real control over the Bay Transformers movies which is why they're as PG-13 as they are. Hasbro would hesitate depicting violence on the level of MGS or CoD unless it's in comics kids will never touch.

>>149304158
motion is always the focus of a comic. If it is not animated in the readers head as they read it, it's shit.
We're not reading picture books here, they're comics, they must be animated.

>>149301490
OP just wants to bait more EAST VS WEST nonsense by framing this as a zero sum fight as if people don't regularly consume and take inspiration from a wide range of media. Skimming through some of the posts and it's clear some people are more interested in a tribal fight than any actual sincere interest in comics or cartoons.

>>149304170

>where all the women look hot as fuck?

Wait, are we still talking about One Piece?

>>149304001
Not saying I believe you but, so?

Why do you retards just assume "AI le bad" instantly wins an argument? Most people are indifferent or outright excited about AI art

>>149304136
Motion can be used to frame or contextualize stillness.

Not understanding this is like not understanding what negative space is and how it can be used.

>>149304156
The retarded jannies have temp-banned my region from uploading files despite me not having posted here for several months

>>149304195
Redrawing the same frame over and over, or only slightly adjusting it does not convey stillness, it just bores the readers because you're drawing the same thing over and over again, all it actually does is speed up the motion, because you see one small panel once and then ignore the rest.
It's a total amateur move.

>>149303749
zoomies dont know about the 90s comics boom and crash

>>149304170
Wokes always retcon so that past successes were always woke. This is huge in video games, for example, where they were incredibly furious that 2B was hot or that Bayonetta (moreso 2 and 3) was sexual, but once those games came out and did well they turned around and tried to claim them both as Strong Female Characters Supporting the Woke. It was incredibly funny when Bayonetta 3 came out and confirmed Bayo was heterosexual (or at least not exclusively a lesbian), which infuriated them to no end. They keep trying to pretend anime is woke too, but will in the same breath claim localizers HAVE to change the scripts to be Current Year political garbage because of how chuddy the originals are.

>>149304223
Here's how you convey stillness
This doesn't even need an explanation, it's mere presence is the explanation. It's impossible to read this without feeling its inherent stillness.
Comic artists fail to do this

>>14parent.
>The retarded jannies have temp-banned my region from uploading files despite me not having posted here for several months
So you ARE a dirty-ass pajeet.
They're the retards but you're the one getting banned, banned from a site that they monitor, a site that allows all kinds of filth.
Imagine being banned by people like that, from a place like that.

>>149304186
If you ever feel like you're wasting your life in 4channel remember there are retards out there who pay the idiot tax

>>149304230
>zoomies
Rent-free

>>149304223
It wasn't the same frame over and over again. God you're a fucking idiot.

>>149304254
Tax?

>>149304202
>The retarded jannies have temp-banned my region from uploading files despite me not having posted here for several months
So you ARE a dirty-ass pajeet.
They're the retards but you're the one getting banned, banned from a site that they monitor, a site that allows all kinds of filth.
Imagine being banned by people like that, from a place like that.

>>149304265
It's the same frame slightly adjusted 7 times.
It's made even more boring by using the exact same panel shape for 6 of them

>>149304170
I don;t think people read One Piece because of some inherent politics.

>>149301452 (OP)
No, it is far too late for that. Comics and cartoons are a thing of the past. This is the future.

>>149304234
And they're quick to whip their own back into the plantation when they step out of line

>>149304028
That's the point. There's enough demand for 80s movie franchises to keep making sequels.
Honestly, I'd be happy to have a good Lethal Weapon sequel, but that's not in the stars for us.
Even without Mel Gibson's spergout, you can't have a triggerhappy cop as a protagonist these days.

>>149303771
hard to judge from a single image vs. an actual comic

but what's important to look at for a single image illustration is clarity. if they be clear in a single image and its more than just a pin-up then they can be clear in a dozen for a comic
the splash image approach (which is what most comic books do) sucks for actual comics because its not a simple statement. it works more for movie posters or league of legends art (something meant to be seen dozens of times) but not comic book art

a lot of the good modern illustrators do focus on a simple statement and let the details be something you come back for, not something you fight against

>>149304254

Pay what now?

>>149303870
>The average 15-25 comic reader won't shut up about the Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse comics, problem is that they're not American as Americans will rather be talking about Popeye and Peanuts instead.
what year do you think this is anon? no one reads popeye and peanuts anymore, thats shit your parents, maybe even grandparents actually read

obviously the old disney comics do have a legacy and i don't want to knock them but they are like 80s rock music, still super popular because multiple generations love it but not something that specifically the young generation looks for

>>149301452 (OP)
Netflix saying more people are watching anime feels worthless as Netflix categorizes too many things that aren't anime [e.g the Witcher, Avatar, Castlevania, Pacific Rim] as anime.

>>149304357
Every now and then someone tries to put a movie or an animated movie in a comic form by just ripping the frames and sticking them on the page, and this never works because without the ACTUAL animation that an actual animation has, there is no motion.

comics are exactly like pic related, they're trying to "animate" but with no understanding of animation and how to apply its principles to comics

>>149304287
>>149304243
>>149304060
>>149304026
>>149303771
why are you scared to actually showcase your taste?
if the only things you like are old things then you should just walk out of the conversation right now because yeah that shit is good WE KNOW, but you're also not something who's that interested in seeing the industry grow

if the only thing that would get you interested in reading a new comic is a new donald duck comic then you aren't really interested in seeing new things be made

>>149301452 (OP)
A decade or so ago I had a bunch of FB friends, we used to discuss the Walking Dead comics in a private group. Kinda surreal to see dozens of normies ages 16 to 65 to get excited about a comicbook. It was cool to try to guess if your favorite character will survive the current storyline. So TWD had one part the soap opera element of marvel comics and one part real life danger that doesnt exist in cape or fantasy comics.

>>149301582
Chad

>>149301666
Hi Satan, TWD has global apeal, so does the TMNT, Conan, Invincible, Batman, Spiderman.

>>149304430
>personal tastes
nice try pal but you're not gonna turn this argument into an ad hominem
Argue objectively

>>149304418
Are there any western comics you like or think have some merit?

>>149304418
anon you don't actually understand cinematic language
you're just more interested in saying how good old stuff is

>>149304454
Scott Pilgrim is better than all capeshit

>>149304468
Any more?

Had the same discussion again award

>>149304478
Many of the sonic comics are good

>>149304068
https://www.nemosbibliotek.dk/75-aar-med-anders-and-i-danmark/
Best I can do is an article from the 75th anniversary of the magazine from last year, but I can translate the bit that talks about sales.
>In tandem with the increased publishing frequency, the sales numbers would also grow steadily. The peak was hit in the second half of 1972, where 219,688 copies would get sold weekly
>In 1999 the weekly sale was at around 90,000 in Denmark, but since then it has fallen considerably. The latest published figures sits at just about 40,000 examples each week.
>On the flipside, there is still many readers. According to Kantar Gallup (a danish analytic group), Anders And & Co. had around 196,000 readers per week in 2022.
I assume that last figure is through shared readers of a magazine.
We had just a little over 5 million people in 72, so that would be 4.4% of the population buying a copy at the time.

>>149304244
>>149304284
Jannies are retarded and routinely ban people for the most arbitrary of reasons, getting caught in a rangeban for no reason isn't beyond the pale
and don't think I didn't see your failed reply lol
>>149304451
Pulling the adhom card whilst accusing me of being a pajeet because the janitors are retarded is slimy behavior

>>149304451
i'm not trying to ad hominem
i'm saying you don't have interest in seeing new stuff be made because you only like stuff that has a history of being said it was good

its really easy to feel conviction when you're just agreeing with people i guess. to bad this isn't a discussion on how good your tastes are

>>149304478
As are some of the Transformers comics

>>149304468
Scott Pilgrim is complete trash
>Many of the sonic comics are good
LMAO just LMAO

>>149304508
They're replacing DWJ with Dan Mora soon, might as well check out when he goes

>>149304524
I'm not talking about the story, which is what I assume you are crticising, I'm talking about the art and the panelling. It's leagues beyond anything coming out of Marvel and DC

>>149304489
Ok cool we never have to listen to you.
Yeah some Sonic comic jerkoff is a better storyteller than Joe Kubert or Steve Ditko or Jack Kirby lmao.

>>149304501
I don’t care about the 70s but I do appreciate the source for the 40K figure

>>149304529
Anon if the guy hates capeshit why do you think he’d like Dan Mora?dwj is at least sort of different than most cape artists

>>149304529

Kirkman. Mora is doing art.

>>149304431
>, TWD has global apeal, so does the TMNT, Conan, Invincible, Batman, Spiderman.
More like HAD.

>>149304556
I am saying he has no reason to stick around when DWJ leaves the comic, read it properly next time

>>149304508
I’ve honestly not liked any of the skybound stuff but GI Joe is particularly awful. I genuinely hate Williamson. DWJ isn’t a great writer but it’s a concession in order to get his art I guess.

>>149302845
>Scavenger's Reign
which got cancelled

>>149304135
This is what they say to wash their hands of it, sure. But hav worked in their headquarters I can tell you flat out they were very well aware of everything IDW was doing and had all the comics around the office.

>>149304536
IDW Sonic is trash but he was right that you were gonna ad hominem him if he revealed his tastes in Western comics

>>149304592

>But hav worked in their headquarters

Really?

>>149304582
Thankfully. That shit was ass. I cringe when I see the teenagers round here act like it’s some pinnacle of le adult animation.

>>149304489
I'd rather have the artists do the writing for Sonic than having an actual writer. They'd probably understand him better anyway.

>>149303007
Tom King gets work due to his mother being a WB executive

>>149304533
The art isn’t really spectacular storytelling either. It’s well drawn though. Just competent.
I get the feeling you’re mainly a guy who likes animation and likes comics that reflect that, including more cartoony characters

>>149304606
Yes, the Pawtucket home office. But that was before they lost the pawsox if you want to date it.

>>149304623
Artists should never write. We have no Byrne or Kirby’s these days. All of the artists suck at writing.

>>149304489
>hey this FAMOUS IP comic is actually good!
>but these illustrators are bad because they are only drawing one image at a time!
yeah you're just admitting you only care about brands, and don't actually like understanding cinematic language

i mean you'd rather think that artists of old must have been wizards than ever made after your frontal lobe developed.

>>149304533
>It's leagues beyond anything coming out of Marvel and DC
Fucking stop. You don’t even believe this.

>>149304652
Go on then, post something better than it, I dare you

>>149304597
It’s just really hard to avoid when you put up such a complete nothingburger as a good example of what you’re looking for.
Knowing a critics personal taste is part of how you decide to take that critics advice. I do think they have some good points nonetheless

>>149304635

So what years are we talking?

>>149304489
>hey this FAMOUS IP comic is actually good!
>but these illustrators are bad because they are only drawing one image at a time!
yeah you're just admitting you only care about brands, and don't actually like understanding cinematic language

i mean you'd rather think that artists of old must have been wizards rather than looking at anything made after your frontal lobe developed

>>149304637
>>149304678
What is this, a rosary?!

>>149303029
Don't forget Future Shocks, which is how 2000AD trains its writers with stories that have to be at most 5 pages.
Future Shocks are a mixed bag, but it's not a bad way to tell a story, ill storytime, the most recent one

>>149304676
I refuse to elaborate any further.

>>149304702

>>149304635
>Artists should never write. We have no Byrne or Kirby’s these days. All of the artists suck at writing.
if you want good writing read a book
comics need to be made to be comics before anything

>>149304678
If I thought a comic was good simply because it's a famous IP, wouldn't you think I'd be praising Marvel and DC with their enormous IP's rather than bashing it?

>>149304657
To be clear, you think it’ll be tough to find something better than: >>149304468?

>>149304712

>>149304731

>>149304743
and done.
So a very compressed form of storytelling, even compared to American comics.

>>149304714
oh you can still have complex tastes
but the first thing that gets your attention is the brand name before anything
your entire pool of interest starts and ends at brand names and things that are already famous

>>149304482
Nobody on /a/ is the least bit threatened by western comics existing.
While this thread is only here because OP is very threatened about manga existing and asking for ways to sabotage that.

while the rest of the thread are people coming out of the woodwork getting angrily defensive over the fact that manga threatens them too and rage at anyone daring to think western comics are anything but perfect and in the best economic position they have ever been

>>149304728
Yes I do
Scott Pilgrim's art is deceptively simple, but it is no amateurish.
Contained within its simple faces are emotions of characters brimming with life.
It achieves this depth because the artist is also the writer and the story is one of personal importance to that writer. It is heartfelt.
Beyond that it has appealing panelling and motion. It does not pretense, it simply tells an entertaining story, and its sheer entertainment value is the reason is sells better than anything coming out of Marvel and DC

>>149304678
>>but these illustrators are bad because they are only drawing one image at a time!
At this point you are being dishonest as well just like that fag. Someone being able to make good illustrations doesn't exactly mean he is good at making a comic. There is subtlety in paneling and most important, framing(which is a thing that really lacks in western comics in general) that can't be understood unless you have experience. If you want to look at a manga that does framing exceptionally read or take a glance at shigurui and even compare it with whatever illustrators you like.

>>149304561
To be honest I forgot DWJ stopped illustrating the comic early on
The other guy posted a DWJ page as the reason he likes Skyboundformers anyway

>>149304702
their scope is to big
i can already tell this is the writer trying to pitch a pilot more than to tell a compressed story

>>149304711

Can you at least say which Transformers series was in production at the time?

Did you get free toys?

>>149304779
Lol good god you’re autistic

>>149304060
>breaking the 180 rule
I know it's a comic, but this still irks me.

>>149304060
Come on anon, you could have given a better example.

>>149303858
I'm always taken aback by how good the art is in Tsugumomo considering it's basically borderline porn.

Another pointless thread

>>149304789
Do Future Shocks ever get turned into larger strips?

>>149304813
Plenty, D.R.& Quinch is probably the most notable Future Shock that spun off into a full series

>>149301578
Anime is so popular because it is about beauty, tits, muscles, slapstick, edgy surprises and action-orientated stuff.

>>149301452 (OP)
>Is there some way to counteract this?
It's not that hard to counteract this. The question is whether producers are willing to spend money on it because the people that holds the rights treat cartoons/comics as disposable entertainment beneath movies and TV shows.

>>149304802
It doesn’t though. It just swapped perspective. Breaking the 180 would have Donald on the right in the third panel.

>>149304387
Yes, they do, they still make specials for Apple TV+ and Popeye gets over 20 million viewers on MeTV Toons, they still get read Peanuts and Popeye because those comics are timeless.
>>149304468
Popeye is better.

>>149304890
>popeye is better
absolutely deranged

Another based thread.

Why are these threads always full of low IQ mexicans and mentally ill retards?

>>149304859
Anime slapstick is shit tho

I feel like manga vs American comics and anime vs American animation are two very different conversations that shouldn't be bundled together.
For American comics the main issue I think is the obsession the big studios have with making gargantuan interconnected universes where all the different capeshit stories build upon each the same world (making it very hard to approach to new fans since there's a kilometric backlog), the repetitiveness and the constant reboots whenever the story gets too complicated. Comic makers thought they could get away with "in the next issue Batman fights the same guy he has fought one thousand times in the past but uuuuhhh this time it's in a different planet with a different mcguffin which, if it falls in to the bad guy's hands, will end the Universe!!!!". At some point superheroes stop being characters with actual plots and instead just become narrative devices. There isn't a story that Superman or Spiderman follow, they are just concepts that any retard writer can pick up and drop in whatever story he wants to tell. This makes it so that there's never any narrative payoff, there's no end that the story approaches, everything is meaningless because one day the execs will just reset everything and the characters will act as if the contents of the last issue had never happened.
And it's all capeshit. Non capeshit comics in America are just unable to capture the public's attention. Japanese manga is far, far more varied in its styles, genres, settings, etc.
For American animation, the issue is much more simple. It's dogshit. Low effort, low quality, retard comedy with nothing interesting to say and no attempt at actually being taken seriously. They are content making the bare minimum because everybody else in the American animation industry does the bare minimum, and then can't understand why Japan BTFOs them.

>>149304949
>people that disagree with me =spics
Why are you using that dumb logic?

>>149304949
They're cartoonfags who like manga but hate comics.

>>149304962

>>149304923
NTA, but Popeye is base though.

>>149304972
Christ man use some formatting will you

>>149304981
>instant asspained response
So I was right on the money
>>149304983
All of it is slop.

>>149304999
What are you even talking about? What's even your stance?

>>149304784
you're limiting your understand of illustration to whatever label that artist puts on themselves

i've already told you >>149303660
THIS and art like it which is very present in cape shit is bad because they're trying to tell several stories in one image
it is not something that would look good on a storyboard because it was never made to be like a storyboard. it feels like it was made to be a splash art and is less of a story being told and more like a bunch of random references placed together with sparse reasoning

>>149303611
THIS is good because like all good cinematography, storyboarding, and most of all paneling is that it based off a simple statement, and focuses on clarity
the only difference between a good illustration and a good comic panel from a comic is that a good illustration has more time put into it to focus on details to tell more of a story in a single panel despite its simple statement
a good comic panel stands well alone by itself but together with other panel it lets a story beyond a single snap shot be told. but they have to sacrifice the details a good illustration has

>>149303771
each panel could work as a good illustration if given the same time

i can easily see a good illustrator pivoting to be a good comic artist. the only difference is sacrificing details for efficiency. its a hard workflow to get used to
many good mangaka are good illustrators

>>149304923
Not that anon, but Scott Pilgrim is slop of the highest order.
Literally a late 00s webcomic that people deluded themselves into thinking is good.
It would be like saying Penny Arcade is great.

>>149305024
slop in a world full of inedible gourmet is a most welcome meal

>>149304949
Because latinos have better taste

>>149304992
Literally nothing

>>149305023
>i've already told you
If it wasn't clear I wasn't the guy you were arguing with. And pin-ups styles can't be used to judge how an artist would do paneling.
>the only difference between a good illustration and a good comic panel from a comic is that a good illustration has more time put into it to focus on details to tell more of a story in a single panel despite its simple statement
But we are not judging 1 drawing compared to another drawing. A comic artists needs a lot of understanding of paneling not just drawing.
>i can easily see a good illustrator pivoting to be a good comic artist.
I didn't contest that.

>>149304923
No, fact.

>>149305104
positively senile

>>149305089
>>149305023
And just to reiterate, read Shigurui and pay attention to how things are framed in different panels and the composition. You could take some Shigurui page spreads and judge them as simple drawings and they would be good but they are beyond good when coupled with other panels.

>>149305108
No, far from it.

>>149305089
>And pin-ups styles can't be used to judge how an artist would do paneling.
i'm haven't posted pin-up composition, THIS is more closer to a pin-up
i know the fucking difference between a story and a pin-up
i know a pin-up composition isn't that good for comic book making because even i like it the story being told is "girl does a sexy pose"

>>149305166
My bad, I should have said drawing.

>>149304431
Most of those things you mentioned only have western appeal, not global appeal.
The only ones there with truly global appeal are Spiderman, Batman, and maybe Invincible if we're including Indians.

>>149304949
>/co/ shitter has a meltdown
Always funny

>low IQ spic babble
Can't wait till Trump declares war on your brownoid shithole.
I'm gonna do shit to you that would make Funkytown and Yo quiero agua seem tame and humane. :D

>>149305282
How old are you? 10?

>>149304949
>low IQ mexicans
>comic and cartroon fans out of nowhere
Lmao

>seething spics are still seething
Go cry to your buttbuddy mod like you always do, faggot.

>>149305282
Another war for Israel is far more likely

Nobody cares.
All I want is dead Mexicans.

>>149305324
>literally an entire thread making fun of your shitty industries
You are having a huge meltdown right now lmao.

>>149305337
Then ban cartroons. They are the biggest simpsons consumers after all.

>spic weeb still crying
All this thread has proven is that this board is populated by low IQ fags, aka trash like you.

>>149305358
So you are >>149303575? I am sorry for your parents. Also only browns call other spics. Post your hand, tranny.

Also, ironically most
But youl, spic, all you can do is shit everywhere and pretend you're "arguing". And then you try to claim this thread is even remotely tolerable because of you, shit's hilarious.
>>149303575
>>149303614
>>149303876
>>149305384
>still sucking his own cock
In reality you were the one spamming the thread
>ALL CARTOONS ARE GARBAGE BECAUSE I SAID SO EVEN THE UNIVERSALLY BELOVED ONES
>THEY JUST ARE MKAY?
You had zero arguments, only seething and then you try to blame somebody who gave you the taste of your own medicine. You're pathetic.

We need to allow /a/ discussion on /co/.

>>149305384
I'm not sorry for your parents, because they will soon die of cancer and you will be what you were always meant to be, a worthless homeless maladjust
>still trying to use my own arguments against me.
Literally like arguing with a chink or a russian, lmao.

>>149305410
>>ALL CARTOONS ARE GARBAGE BECAUSE I SAID SO EVEN THE UNIVERSALLY BELOVED ONES
>they are good because hundreds of braindead trannies like them
Lmao. Also this threads has offered hundreds of fucking arguments for why cartroons suck. Read it and weep bitch.