Thread 149964776

Is she right?

>>149964776 (OP)
I think that there's nothing to look forward to for in this space for at least another 20 years

The only thing I heard about Elio for years (we only had that gay image of him crossing his legs in a chair for years) was that it was a movie about a gay/nonbinary xirling

That’s why i didn’t pay ant attention to it, so I’m surprised the final product had nothing to do with gays since that was 100% of the only thing Pixar said about it for years. That it was gay.
Gays don’t sell, noone off twitter likes them.

>>149964776 (OP)
Lost me in the second half. Hope she can bag groceries or flip burgers.

>>149964776 (OP)
Yes unironically. As much as i hate SJW types like her shes absolutely right that these movies shouldnt be made vis a committee. Pixar set elio up to fail to justify more lazy sequels anyways

>>149964857
>years

this movie came out like 6 months ago you fucking faggot

>>149964776 (OP)
Kasey you big reta-
Wait a minute, that's a good idea. They should let these creative and wonderful people do what they want. It's not like the movies will be a bigger box office bomb, and will finally collapse Pixar and maybe even Disney. I definitely wouldn't like that

They increased the amount of lgbt/poc men and women as story leads for the past decade, and it's not working out. Why can't they admit that.
It's not even that a story focusing on minorities is bad, it's just that a lot of them are too inexperienced or unskilled for these creative leadership positions and tend to fully blame the higher-ups, when that obstacle always existed.

>>149964914
And the talk about it has been going on for years of production before release, you braindead tranny

>>149964914
THE ADVERTISING YOU FUCKING SHILL THE ADVERTISING WAS THERE FOR YEARS WITH PROMO STILLS OF A LITTLE FAGGOT GAY BOY SO WE DIDN'T WATCH IT BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO WATCH GAY LITTLE FAIRY BOYS BUT GAY LITTLE FAIRY BOYS AND THEY'RE MAD WE AREN'T ALL INTO THEIR GAY LITTLE FAIRY BOYS

>>149964914
Was it announced 6 months ago? How is his post wrong???

>>149964776 (OP)
Well, the Pixar braintrust men have been making money for years, so of course they won't be the warmest people towards snotty newcomer girls. They know their stuff. Some passion projects just don't work for a big market. A boy and his (their?) slug aren't beating Living Toys or Living Cars.

>>149964960
I don't get that either. And Elio was left in the hands of 2 non-white women so that person's argument makes even less sense.

>>149964776 (OP)
But I will watch originals. When you go back to using competent writers instead of rainbowhaired retards that couldn't write a grocery list without reflexively turning it into a political manifesto.

>>149965011
>i want mediocrity and endless sequels to own da libz
You are everything wrong with modern animation

Yea, yea, just put the fries in the bag.

>>149964776 (OP)
I think the bigger problem is that those same brain trustees need to be even HARDER on their employees from the get go. Pete Doctor is the defacto head of Pixar after Lasseter left but honestly even though I respect the guy as his own film maker, in regards to actually leading a studio filled with hundreds of fucking faces he is probably hands off for most of it, and so when a pitch comes into his door he probably doesnt want be known as a fucking hardass for shutting ideas down and get cancelled as a response for "Pete looked at me weird one time :(" and decides to just greenlight shit and leave these fags alone, therefore making shit movies.
Like look at Pixar's history in comparison to its contemporaries, when was the last time you heard a "Pixar passed on the most amazing film [insert movie here]" You see WDAS pass on good movies all the fucking time, Sony Pictures passes on good movies all the fucking time,Dreamworks cans films all the time, but you havent seen Pixar follow suit, you never hear a pissed off animator say "Dude there was this sick as fuck movie idea with guns and sex and violence" or something cool like that, but if thats the case then you also have to consider that you havent heard any recent stories of Pixar cancelling any BAD ideas either. What you instead see is Pixar greenlight a shit idea, waste millions of dollars on it, and THEN have the heads going "Oh wait this sucks we need to change this." You need to call out a shit idea for what it is ahead of time, and while you may lose a good idea in the process you can find another one but you need to weed out all the shit ideas first.
Although like anon said >>149964908 this movie was set up to fail, a fucking studio that was literally FOUNDED off of making original IP and you have an exec saying "stop asking for originals" is fucking corporate horseshit. KPOP Demon Hunters is one of the fucking hottest names right now and quality of the movie aside it is no doubt original

>>149965011
A boy obsessed with space who wants to get abducted by aliens, which ends up happening but he gets mistaken for an ambassador from Earth so now he has to deal with some council of aliens with various weird agendas sounds like a very cool and marketable premise to me.

>>149964776 (OP)
It felt like a made for tv movie. A movie like this should've focused on the aliens cultures clashing with his but we only focused on one Alien culture so the rest feel like they get in the way.

>>149965163
Also to rant a little more, look at this fucking dumbass ranting about "Let animators speak their truth!!!" bitch no one fucking cares. The world is a fucking cruel ass place and good storytellers of the past learned that you need to make a good fucking story ahead of time and THEN jam whatever gay moral or acceptance lesson you want to preach. Like you got fags quoting shit from 1984 or Brave New World but any of you ever actually try reading that shit? Theres still a decent story being told with characters and drama and intrigue and shit.

>>149964776 (OP)
they're both right, and they're both wrong:

She's right in that there is too much executive meddling to avoid going all-in on these characters, regardless of representation or whatever. Go all-in or don't go at all. She's wrong in that she thinks that if they went all-in on the idea that it was guaranteed to be successful and that there is financial success in just representation. The most important thing is the character and story is well-written and likeable, oh and so HAPPENS to be representative of something, not the other way around.

Disney is right in that there is a lot of resistance to new ideas and people are generally unwilling to try new things. They are wrong in that just because people are hesitant, people DON'T want it. People WANT new original things and are tired of same-y, safe re-treads of already done things. People didn't not watch it because it was new, people didn't watch it because it wasn't good.

PS: designs are so fucking baby-proofed it's absurd

>>149964776 (OP)
What is this bitch smoking? Pixar has made nothing but DEIslop during the last decade.

>>149965269
>because it wasn't good
Have you watched it?

>let turning red do whatever they want
bomb
>let elemental do whatever they want
flop
>let wish do whatever they want
bomb
>let lightyear do whatever they want
flop
>let strange world do whatever they want
>mega bomb
>let soul do whatever they want
>flop
I think Disney is having enough of letting writers do whatever they want because they just make it a group therapy session with the audience.

>>149965358
I'm trying, but I get bored and close it and do something else, and I fucking love TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT so I KNOW it's not an attention span problem.

That usually means I'm not engaged, which suggests it's not very good.

>>149964776 (OP)
Old white men make movies for everyone.
Cars, Monsters Inc. Even stuff like Inside Out has universal appeal since the focus isn’t on Riley being white.
Turning Red is explicitly about Asian girls in 2000s Toronto. Elemental is an allegory for Asian immigrants.
Don’t expect mass appeal when your story is so narrowly defined.

>>149965433
The Cars movies fucking sucked tho

>>149964776 (OP)
Yes
Maggie Kang made what she wanted and won

>>149965366
But when are you going to realise even your favorite movies are just the same thing too: UP was the same BS as all these movies and so is Walle and Toy Story 3 and 4 (and 5? dunno, hard to keep up.)

It's all just dumb trauma dumping BS.

>>149964776 (OP)
No, because the old white Pixar braintrust she's bitching about was kicked out during the Me Too movement.

Only people left are too spineless to properly direct

>>149965366
>>let elemental do whatever they want
>flop
Elemental didn't flop, it legged out for a long time in the box office

>>149965469
That shit sucked too, and that's because just kslop and stutterslop and a bunch of korean fucking nobodies.

>>149965465
Still made bank by selling to kids that like cars anon.

>>149964776 (OP)
>maybe let women say
Nope

>>149965491
>singalong screenings sold out
seethe harder

>>149965525
Don't care, still trash.

You can tell me all you want about how stutterslop shit like miles morales, tmnt or last wish, or how kpop music is popular and successful, I frankly don't give a rats ass, it's all still trash.

enjoy it all you want, just leave me the fuck out of your dumpsterfire smoke.

>>149964776 (OP)
Imagine having such a bad fucking take that Elio failed because they replaced the "original voice" when there's literally proof the original story SUCKED because it was just Steven Universe: Pixar Edition
Thread debunked. No more posts needed.

>>149964776 (OP)
disney has a a habit of hiring someone for their talent but then trying to tone them down for some damn reason
but this movie would have done even worse if they didn't step in

>>149965490
Sure, but it still flopped. It almost broke even by the 2.5x rule, but still fell short. "Almost breaking even" is a flop.

Sure, the director said it was profitable, but why would he say otherwise?

>>149965578
>just leave me the fuck out of your dumpsterfire smoke
it's not like you were ever joined in in the first place
you act as if you have kpop demon hunters fans forcibly dragging you into the singalong screenings

>>149964776 (OP)

>Kasey the studio where you work on only has spin-offs of Adventure Time, Regular Show and Steven Universe for the next few years

>>149965433
No, it's just that everyone is used to assimilating to white male narratives because that is what was made the norm. The white experience is viewed as neutral, default, and standard despite that it is an experience different from most people in the world.

The answer to this isn't to accept it and reinforce it. White as the default should be challenged, not for the sake of politics but for the sake of art. Art should reflect our world in its entirety, not only one experience, art is enriched by different voices.

>>149965525
I can’t wait for the videos. I hope there’ll be fights like the Taylor Swift one.

>>149965658
Everyone else is going to tear you apart for saying this, but know that by and large i agree and youre right

>>149965694
I hope regular k-pop fans get in brawls with the kpop demon hunter fans within the theater

>>149964776 (OP)
>the original Elio, the test audience said they liked it but wouldn't pay to see it
That definitely sounds like a winner.

>>149965658
Honestly, I'm not even white, and given the last 10-15 years, I'd rather watch stuff made by white (and a few Asian/Jewish) guys.
Everyone else kinda fucking sucks at making stuff that's actually decent, which is probably why zoomer "culture" is so worthless.

>>149965658
based take

>>149965724
meaning Kpop Demon Hunters fans are selling out screenings even though they watched it on Netflix 100s of times

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/kpop-demon-hunters-singalong-box-office-sells-out-1236348539/

>Box Office: ‘KPop Demon Hunters Sing-Along’ Books Over 1,700 Cinemas, 1,000 Shows Sell Out

>>149965724
Most people that have watched the final version also say they liked it. It's getting pretty decent reviews everywhere.

>>149964776 (OP)
>YOU WANT GOOD ORIGINALS? YOU NEED TO WATCH OUR SLOP FIRST!
No, I don't think I will.

>>149965624
This is normal corporate behavior. The creative cycle is always
>initial idea
>idea gets greenlit
>initial pilot or rough film
>focus groups and executives pick it apart
>revised draft is shown
>more focus groups
>final film
That's how the process has ALWAYS worked. Nothing has changed. You want to say that X was ruined by it? Sure. It's happened. But it's not new.

>>149965798
Most people who would have looked at that marketing and art style and still showed up anyway would of course like it. The movie is bombing hard, so it is clear most people self-selected out as why would they watch a movie they would not like?

>>149965856
But the process has gotten worse and more stringent lately, retard

>>149965869
That makes sense. But if the random sample also liked the original cut when it was supposedly gay and what not, then I have no reason to believe the final cut would suddenly be worse.

>>149965911
Actually no it hasn't. If anything it was worse in the 80's. What's happened now is that corporations are risk averse while "creatives" are increasingly activist, and it's resulting in butting of heads. And Elio is a great example, a "creative" wanted it to feature gay children and the studio said "hmm, that's not a good idea" and now they're whining about it.

>>149965869
> so it is clear most people self-selected out as why would they watch a movie they would not like?
Its not pixar writers fault that the sheep masses of normie retards have shit taste. But i guess these stupid idiot subhumans just want endless awful toy story sequels from here on out

>>149965938
>What's happened now is that corporations are risk averse
Meaning they dont want to make anything at all then, cheap bastards. This era is even worse then the 80s with its reliance on established IPs for everything

>>149965961
Wrong. In the 80's you'd have some corpo wander in and scream at you if your film didn't have enough things that they could sell as toys. Entire sequences in Tim Burton's Batman and Jurassic Park Lost World were added for no other reason than to sell toys.

>>149964776 (OP)
>you should stop making things that make money and make more things that flop!!

Very insightful. I'm sure Disney, the billion dollar company, will listen.

>>149965977
That ironically was good because now they have to make good designs because it has to sell toys of. Now, they make real shitty designs because it doesn't have to do anything other than be shit.

Better to not hire women/poc/lgbt to begin with.

>>149965961
They want to make low-effort innocuous slop until the end of time with maximum profits. It's the best way to prevent your shareholders (other, even more kikey corpos) from getting uppity. And unfortunately it works because Chinese viewers will eat up literally any slop you sling in their general direction as long as it has a polished visual presentation.

>>149965938
>and the studio said "hmm, that's not a good idea"
And they were right. A boy being an outcast because he's autistic or just weird is a lot stronger of a premise than him being an outcast because he's gay of all things.

>>149965977
And now corporate execs are too lazy and cheap to make toys for cartoon shows that fans regularly and actively complain dont get merch. Funny how that works

Things are much worse now, fuck you

>>149964776 (OP)
This movie did nothing new or original, just another modern Pixar movie trying to be derivative of basic bitch Studio Ghibli slop, it would've failed either way.

>>149965658
that's retarded. you're retarded. you shouldnt hire white people just because theyre the norm just like you shouldnt hire black people just to challenge some dumb norm.

most writers used to be white dudes cause that was the biggest demographic in the west that wrote. it's not like a black chick or a gay guy can't come up with a good story that will engage audiences. they just aren't finding those people who can write anymore, because studios aren't looking for people that can write, they're looking for people who are proudly black or gay. at that point you're left with retards who think trauma dumping makes for a good movie with mass appeal. as pixar's output over the past decade has proven, it isn't.

>>149964776 (OP)
I hate saying this but Disney is right about this. In a way it's like a grassroots consumer scam to clamor for a studio to make new IPs, let them bomb, then ten years later suddenly Elio is a beloved nostalgic cult classic long after Disney already lost a ton of money for making it. Not sure how this can be fixed.

>>149964776 (OP)

This pisses me off.

That "old, white braintrust man" is why Pixar's made this piece of shit's favorite movies for the last decade.

Those LGTBQ+ faggots have been allowed to say whatever the fuck they want for the last several decades - here's the thing, their fucking stupid little "stories" don't exactly make millions of fucking business dollars.

This movie came out around the same time as Mission Impossible and Jurassic Park's sequels and more people wanted to see that than some fruity fuck director's "back in myyy daaaayyy" autobiographical story about a dumbfuck ugly Teen Titans Go-looking kid.

If this POS user wanted his own fucking pride movie, maybe they should stop spending their money on strap-on's and pride flags and maybe make their own goddamn studio instead of asking somebody else to fucking do it. This is why none of us take gay and lesbo faggot seriously and treat them like shit.

>>149965658
This is basically an argument against multiculturalism. You are arguing that when there is a diverse culture of races and peoples they're destined not to get along and everything is destined to suck because nobody can agree on a single unifying narrative.

And maybe you're right. But I bet that's not what you want.

The old "white" menowitz areberg atstein ithen againmo!

>>149964776 (OP)
Notice how these people never have the same confidence to say what they post to the executives faces. Kinda makes ya think.

>>149966392
They probably did and the execs don't care.

>>149965658
>look at me I heccin love doing crimes and annoying people because revolution or something
>also my art is ugly, didactic, and showcases my personal hangups
>AIEEEEEE WHY DIDN'T YOU LIKE IT??????????
that's how it has been going with your gay nonsense and thankfully it's starting to get some pushback

>>149964776 (OP)

>Old white Pixar braintrust

Does she know that the braintrust now includes Domee Shi?

>>149966392

>you're old white men
>exc: just put the fries in the bags bro

>>149964776 (OP)

>Cucksky

She knows she would get dunked by Disney adults is she posted this on Twitter

>>149965658
This post came from Israel. Do not believe its lies.

>>149966737
No and if she did, she'd lie so she can keep playing the victim card.

Why's it okay to be racist and ageist to people who made the company?

>>149966870
Because they're losers who complain about winners. That's their entire identity. Nothing is ever their fault because someone else has more than they do.

Winners making fun of losers is bad. Losers making fun of winners is ignorable.

>>149966737

>In early April 2022, Pixar promoted Shi to vice president of creative, alongside Andrew Stanton, Peter Sohn and Dan Scanlon.

Someone tell her that the braintrust includes two asian people lol

I'm tired of people who pretend not to understand problems in order to never question themselves sincerely.

Fuck this gutless era, responsability is dead.

>>149964776 (OP)
>gay movie flops
>PERHAPS YOU SHOULD HAVE LET IT FLOP H A R D E R, YOU CHUD
lmao

Soul was original and great. That's all.

>>149964776 (OP)
...because all they want to say is
>That time my parents got divorced
>That time grandma didn't accept me
>That time my quirky immigrant parents didn't get things/like my boyfriend
>The time I had a panic attack at age 11
...that's it...

fuck their voices, we have had about 7 years of hearing their diverse voices and all they have to say is bitching and moaning about their perfect, problem-free spoiled upper middle class childhoods.

Even Pixar grasps that Toy Story 14 is better than that meaningless bitchy whiny shit.

>>149966410
As par the case or whatever.
Execs usually stop caring about trends when the money starts running dry from what I've noticed.

>>149967388
This. They want to use a fucking cartoon as their own vehicle for personal therapy.

>the reason why communism failed is not because we tried communism. it's because we didn't try it hard enough
These people will never admit that no one likes their gay shit.

>>149967435
Communism has never failed because it's never been implemented. Read theory before you speak.

>>149964776 (OP)
She can't be this stupid.

>>149964776 (OP)
ALL they have to do is just fucking stop with all the goddamn self insert stories already.


Seriously why in all fuck do these people keep self inserting over and over and over again now? What the fuck is this timeline? Why can't they just make some fantastical adventure and just write that? Why does it have to be a quirky take on some boring normal mundane thing that happen specifically to them that one time when they were 12?

People just want typical escapist fantasy, they don't want
>My quirky take on how my immigrant dad was weird
>My grandmother was kind of mean sometimes
>My first job was hard and people didn't accept me
I know it's possible because it was done throughout the history of all film and then literary works before 2019.

>>149966244
Also old white braintrust man has been gone for like 7 years now. He made two other movies at his new studio. We're a little past the time they can blame him for all their problems.

...especially since all their movies made since his leaving have been miserable failures.

NOBODY of the focus group liked the movie with the director's vision. NOBODY.

Look, I get that trying to appeal to everyone is an issue and that its good to have the vision of the firector, but when NOBODY likes it, there is probably an issue.

>>149967466
Do you think they know how to write anything else? They went through the same pipeline to learn how to write like all the other upper class people and got into Pixar via nepotism. They have no life experiences or any sense of wonder for the world.

A kid uses his imagination when he has no other worldly goods, and when he grows up to be a writer, he can channel that. You think these fucks lacked anything to do ever with how rich they were? Of course not, so when they grow up, they have nothing. So the only thing they can write about was when their parents didn't approve of their career choice, and they channel that rage into stories about hating their parents.

>>149967466
It's not considered profound anymore to tell any other kind of story than "I'm a third generation immigrant and I have my unique story to tell (just like every other third generation immigrant)". We have an endless parade of people who all think their story has never been told anymore, and it's always "my Asian mom was strict", "my Indian family eats weird food and has a weird religion", "my Hispanic family is super catholic but in an exotic way", "my Islamic family escaped oppression". It's that over and over again, because being a foreigner is doubleplus good and everyone in your little in-group will clap like seals when you confirm their biases.

>>149965471
>It's all just dumb trauma dumping BS.
>>149965366
>they just make it a group therapy session with the audience.
>>149967388
>all they have to say is bitching and moaning about their perfect, problem-free spoiled upper middle class childhoods
>>149967466
>all the goddamn self insert stories already.

I think people have pretty much figured out the problem here, it's the self-inserting on part of the directors and the only story they have to tell is how their upper class California childhoods were only 98.999% perfect. Half the time it's just annoying complaining from them. And no one really cares. If anything that crushing reality is the very shit the audiences want the fantasy escapism from, they don't want their escapism to be...stupid shit that happens in reality.
But, no one actually within Pixar can see the problem here. To them the problem is that audiences are just plain not giving them money for making a 2 and a half hour trauma dump, and they will never ...ever understand why they cannot make a billion doing that.

>>149967559
And that is the problem, they had perfect little lives and bounced from upper class life to directing for their 19th birthday. They have no other life experiences to write about and no other contacts at all outside other fellow 3rd and 4th generation Hollywood rich fucks.

>>149964776 (OP)
People painting this as a "We vs Woke" discourse when the movie flopped simply because the competition offered way more fresh looking and creative concepts and Pixar basically just made a light version of Lilo and Stitch right after releasing the live action

Also add that children no longer watch movies nor animation they just watch short term stuff in TikTok and reels so unless you make stuff for mid 20's manchildren or the most brain stimulus colored high paced dopamine rush to be able to keep them hooked for 1 hour 30 minutes like the Minecraft movie you are destined to fail

>>149966244
It's the exact same endless whining and screeching
>Oh I still have no rights, I'm still being soooooo oppressed!!! LGBT Rights now!!!!
When....what the fuck rights do they seriously not have? They are everywhere, nothing they do is illegal, even the illegal shit they do is not illegal when they do it. There is no arresting of any gay anyone for anything anywhere. They have all the rights as anyone else. yet they will NEVER stop bitching and screeching about how they need rights now.

>>149967614
Woke is fundamental to the process now. This is what woke is about: boring identity politics. Woke is no longer taking a good story and saying oh this character is gay or this character is trans. Woke affects deeper now that it completely affects the foundation that the story can no longer be good.

>>149967641
In my experience they will bitch about rights and freedoms when a random person on the street sneers at them or makes a mean face in their direction. Apparently every living thing somehow *Not* adoring them at all times is a rights issue and evidence they are still an oppressed minority.

>>149965658
how is Cars, Toy Story and Monsters INC a white narrative?

>>149967614
Studios need to come back to the understanding that they just made a shit movie. Movie sucked, do something else.

The problem now is that studios only have the understanding the movie is 100% fucking PERFECT! and the audience is wrong for not expressing that too. They will never ever admit they made a piece of shit, and they will never change course after making a shit movie that did not sell. They will keep making the same shit by the same people and assuming this time will be different because the audience is clearly wrong.

>>149964776 (OP)
>LET QUEER PEOPLE SPEAK
We literally did that for the last decade and it's been the worst decade most of these companies have ever seen.

>>149964776 (OP)
They have been speaking nonstop for like 10 damn years. All they have to say is complaining about the times their parents were mean to them. Or how their immigrant parents happened to be immigrant parents. We got it, none of those movies worked, time to do something else now.

>>149967614
>People painting this as a "We vs Woke"
I think that before they write a story they filter everything interesting out of it to not offend anyone, then they start it, then they filter it again.

It's NOTICIABLE, and woe is part of the issue - to the point that they tried to get rid of it on Eli because they noticed the pattern, but it was too late and there was nothing else to the story.


Also Pixar used to have much higher standarts before the previous leadership got Metooed - like, actual reports of the time say that the guy was hard to work with because of his standarts. Whatever he did aside, that sort of hardass productor that pressures the employees is seen baddly these days, and people have bizarre toxic positivity like the guy in OP pic.

>>149964776 (OP)
>please sir, can we have something else to eat instead of slop
>takes a fat shit on the plate
>you won't eat it? then you must enjoy slop, so that's all you're going to get. stop complaining.

Wild idea
What if they made originals...that had an entertaining story?

>>149967780
a little doo doo goes a long way

>>149964776 (OP)
Why do these retards think if they went with the women/poc/lgbtq+ original vision of Elio where he was gay this would have made a billion?

>>149967978
Why would they say otherwise? They always double down. They will never admit that they were wrong. They will always claim it wasn't even more LGBT or PoC representing which is why it failed, rather than admitting no one likes that shit.

>>149964857
What a shame, they still fucked up the movie having removed most of the gay shit.

>>149968011
Which is funny because this is the reason Elio failed
They had such an unappealing film with the gay personal trauma film that exactly zero test audiences wanted to see they had to try to salvage it with the revamped version (which did not work out)

>>149964776 (OP)
>let poc/lgbtq
It was literally directed by an openly gay mexican

>>149965163
surprisingly good post itt

>>149965163
Anon you know that every story about “X passed on my script” is just a butt hurt screen writer trying to get social media clicks and attention from another studio right?

>>149965366
Wish and Lightyear were always going to bomb but in a better timeline without Covid lockdowns I think Turning Red would have done fine and Elemental would had done very well.

>>149966870
>>149966919
That's a dumb reductive take and you know it. Just because you were hot shit before and speared good ideas doesn't mean you will do it forever. Plenty of formerly respected names have gone on to produce shit or just generally loser their edge and perspective over time.

>>149968105
No that was the first version. The second version was directed by two ladies, one of which was the Turning Red director so there's a POC voice too. Either way, bitch on OPs image be bitchin.

Anyway, movie was good, but I'm glad it's going to stay obscure because that means nobody will take Questa from me, she's a top tier alien waifu.

>>149964776 (OP)
She's right that Elio is hackneyed designed by committee trash. She's wrong that keeping it gay would've made it any more original.

Weird brown kid befriends an alien and learns the value of family has been done. We have Home at Home. Hell, Disney literally remade their last movie with that exact plot and put it out mere weeks before Elio. Going "but this time the kid likes boys!' changes absolutely nothing.

Oops. It just went into break even territory. Chuds lose again.

>>149968665
I would comment something but I know that not even you believe that and knows how these things work.

Niche products should have smaller budgets.

>>149966104
> studios aren't looking for people that can write, they're looking for people who are proudly black or gay
Incorrect. The people who hire, first and foremost, are hiring their friends and relatives. Some of which may be black and gay, but usually aren't and instead are white or asian from the same privileged background they are. After that it's friends of friends and maybe they'll look at nonwhite/asian people that are part of these cliques most of which also have privileged backgrounds so they don't diverge much in voice from their white counterparts. Then after all the nepo incest, it's a person or two that that the showrunner is a fan of that is available for work - plucked off social media or known from some project. Then after alllllllll that maybe they'll glance at a few applications and if they feel like they need a diversity hire they'll hire one marginalized person which immediately eliminates every other marginalized person not part of these previous groups. They also tend to treat this person like shit and unless they assimilate really well with a bunch of privileged nerds their careers go nowhere.

There are plenty of great nonwhite writers and artists out there and you'll never hear their stories because major studios will never give them a voice. They'll only ever zoom in on the person who got their foot in the door from being a friend of a friend and they're a friend of a friend because they come from the same privileged background. If they seem like they have nothing to say outside of being "proudly black or gay" - that's why, and they know it's the only reason they're being given a chance so they pretty much have to lean into it anyways so the studio can be proud of how diverse it is.

>>149964776 (OP)
I don’t see a world in which elio didn’t flop

>>149968812
>Then after alllllllll that maybe they'll glance at a few applications and if they feel like they need a diversity hire they'll hire one marginalized person which immediately eliminates every other marginalized person
This is bulshit considering the amount of their latest movies directed by minorities.

Everyone knows that these companies push certain demographics and ignore others.

A White male pretended to be a gender-fluid member of the Nigerian diaspora & won an award for an intentionally bad poem that includes several emojis & the line:

I want Billy Bard?? to spank?? my big? juicy?? fanny

>>149964776 (OP)
To a point, yeah. Maybe if these creators were given more creative control, they’d still make crap, but at least it would be crap with a little soul instead of this paint by numbers slop. When you have them just work as the idea guys that spit out an elevator pitch and then sand down all of the artistic vision behind it, you just get the worst of both worlds.

>>149968812
It's more like these are diverse lgbt annoying non white people, who only befriend diverse lgbt annoying non white people, hiring their diverse lgbt annoying non white people.

>>149968900
They have no soul. It just be the same lame story, but the protagonist is explicitly more gay.

What Strange World was. That was the movie Disney realized they need to start pushing back against creatives regarding "representation".

>>149967504
>Anon forgetting how ass skydance movies are
Lasserter the molester was great at Pixar but shit on his own.

I can only hope brad bird can save

>>149968239
No it isn't shitass. Popeye got axed, Gigantic got axed, Me and My Shadow got axed, the original Meet the Robinsons pitch got axed, KPOP constantly got rejected, these fucking stories are commonplace in Hollywood period, for good and bad, except in the recent years of Pixar when Lasster left. Even their precious Toy Story IP with Lightyear with the obvious story problems and lack of appeal got through damaging the oh so precious IP. Pixar needs to have a lot more butthurt screenwriter stories as far as I'm concerned

>>149967685
>Cars
Perspective of a white celebrity
>Toy Story
Takes place in white suburbia with a well-off family. The human toy characters are also white archetypes (white western hero, white sci-fi hero).
>Monsters Inc.
Calls back to white workplaces/factories which kept minorities segregated in lower positions like packing and yard work.

These are all films from a white male perspective and that's obvious if you consider things like living in suburbia, wealth/social status, attitudes towards you in your workplace, the foods you eat, the relationship you have with friends and family, and how family dynamics are portrayed come from white culture.

You're going to hate this example but: compare these films to Shark Tale which is obviously not meant to be a white perspective. Think about the struggles Oscar has as a character, how he is viewed in his workplace, how he interacts with other characters. Because white culture has been set up as the default it isn't noticed. A family sitting around the table bantering eating meatloaf doesn't strike you as "white" despite that it would look different if the characters were coded as a different race, like say in Elemental. The family dynamics in Elemental are also a good example. I know tumblr types abused the term "coding" but we can't escape how our race influences our perspective so even when you're writing about cars, fish, or toys you're still imbuing racial coding. These characters are, after all, not actually cars and fish but symbols for people.

I think BOTH the executives and the artists can all just fuck off

>>149969146
white culture is seen as the default because it is superior. we unraveled the natural world and explained to bongo hitting negroes that the earth goes around the sun and impressed them with dynamite, some African languages has "kaboom" mean white people. warlords in the deepest part of africa wear mock European general uniforms, north Koreans wear suit and ties, you all do this because we are the universal truth.

>>149969328
Yeah, I have enough backlog I gotta catch up on anyway. I’m good if art just takes a break for a couple years.

>>149964776 (OP)
No. Those don't sell either.

>>149965658
It's insane how true that one Doge comic was and now it's going to be 5 years since it was published soon, 2025 has been one of the worst years for memes and it just proves it, don't even get me started on pop culture, not a real thing.

>>149964776 (OP)
You know actually I think if they were to fire all the POC and LGBTQ plus and let the Pixar brain trust white man make a movie that has to be completely original with no squeals. We’d probably get a better end product.

This movie became more famous because of the leaks than the movie itself.

>>149964776 (OP)
Erm... who's gonna tell her that's exactly what's been happening for the past few years including their shorts... I kinda get wanting less executive meddling considering they scrapped nearly an entire movie and doubled the budget only to for it fail anyway but Molina isn't exactly new talent either. He even co-directed Coco but Elio as concept for a movie just didn't seem to be enough to carry it.
>>149965622
Shieeet they could've even salvaged it by having Real Elio fight Clone Elio with space tech or whatever and then they hug it out.
>>149965798
It's okay, probably Good Dinosaur or Onward tier of it's entertaining enough but forgettable.
>>149969693
Did it, I've never seen them posted outside of /co/ outside of that one article. I thought it was because of the existing beanmouth/grubhub debacle online.

>>149967388
>...because all they want to say is
>>That time my parents got divorced
>>That time grandma didn't accept me
>>That time my quirky immigrant parents didn't get things/like my boyfriend
>>The time I had a panic attack at age 11
>...that's it...
I'm not even kidding gatekeeping poor people from the entertainment industry (animation especially) is why almost every person who pitches/directs something always ends up choosing one of those ideas. Some suburban Californian who never struggled and landed a cushy job right out of school their parents paid for hasn't had anything interesting happen to them. Notice how all of those ideas listed above are uninteresting personal problems. Not anything fantastical or unique.
Being a narcissist is also a severe problem. It HAS to be THEIR STORY. They cannot stand seeing someone else's point of view because then the attention is not on them, and that makes them uncomfortable.
Animated movies used to be made by adults and now they are basically made by children.

>>149964821
Fpbp.
Unfortunately it seems to be the case. American animation seems to be stuck in a rut with these borderline geriatric Millenilol animators. Their brains have already been calcified enough to the point where they're permanently stuck with only being capable of doing 2016 SJWcore beanmouth shit and feature lenght CGI Grubhub TV ads. This or comitee-made sequel slop.
Can't these studios just bring in the old guys and have them give these "kids"(lol) some sort of employee training? Y'know, show them the ropes, beat the retardation away from them?

>>149968625
Keeping it gay would have made it more original. It's just that original and good aren't synonyms, and singular points of originality don't make up for everything else being hackneyed. I think a lot of this thread is oversimplifying things. Elemental isn't some exclusively immigrant thing that nobody who doesn't have South Korean dad can relate to, it's a goddamn romcom that anyone who has ever had parents with specific expectations about who they date or who have date someone whose family and upbringing are very different from their own can relate to, and even if you haven't you can fucking get what is being thrown down. The reason why Elemental didn't do well at the box office is because its a romcom, no kid is going to give a shit and adults can turn to any of the hundreds of romcoms released this century for a more complex and direct take on the themes.

>>149964776 (OP)
I don't ask for originals. I ask for good movies, and they fucking refuse to give them to me.

>>149970068
Old Boomers will keep their animation and storytelling secrets to themselves. You know that to be true anon. Like I dunno if you ever got ads listing "Disney wants YOU to learn traditional animation" a couple of years back but essentially that turned out to be a bust cause even though the whole point was that you were getting PAID TO FUCKING LEARN THIS SHIT the requirements were so fucking high that hardly anyone got fucking in despite the fact that the whole point is that traditional animation is fucking and that this info should be passed onto a new generation. These old fucks cant fucking help themselves when it comes to gatekeeping.

>>149965163
>a fucking studio that was literally FOUNDED off of making original IP and you have an exec saying "stop asking for originals" is fucking corporate horseshit
THIS! THIS! THIS!

>>149964908
>Pixar set elio up to fail
The original draft was a failure from the get go. Not a single fucking person in attendance at the test screenings wanted to pay to watch it.
Pixar was handed the biggest load of horse shit by one of their directors, and had to try to make it into anything even remotely profitable, a task I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

>>149969345
You aren't, you just colonized the earth physically and ideologically. You can be smug about that if you want I guess.

>>149969146
I mean, yes. If you watch movies from China they’ll display Chinese work conditions. Mexican movies portray a Mexican family dynamic.
I don’t get why once it’s white Americans portraying their culture it’s all of a sudden a problem.

>>149970441
Because the "white American experience" is treated as non-existent. It's the "whites have no culture" argument.

>>149964776 (OP)
Somewhere I heard that the alien looks like an uncut dick, and now I can't unsee it.

>>149970280
The requirements weren't "too high", nobody wanted to do the work.

>>149965187
Honestly, if you didn't make Elio look so meek it would of worked.

>>149965242
>but any of you ever actually try reading that shit?
Yes nigger and Zamyatin's "We" that both books cribbed from. BNW is a comedy half the time. Read something that isn't about Judge Holden you illiterate cunt.

>>149970493
God he looks like a pussy

>>149970493
The plot is a bad episode of Invader Zim, but at least Invader Zim would make the aliens retarded for comedic effect. I hate the liar revealed shit.

>>149965423
>I didn't like it so that means it's not good

>>149970384
Yes anon, that is well known, but consider that if the draft was such an obvious failure that not even one person in the test screening vouched for it, then how did it go over those in the brain trust? How did it go over the executives heads? Why is a Disney exec suddenly coming out of the woodwork to say that you shouldnt ask for originality?
Well lets ask ourselves how did a shiity movie like Disneys Home on The Range make it to theaters? How did Princess and The Frog, despite being seen as a success, the last 2D animated movie from Disney?
Execs will do stupid fucking stunts and decisions on purpose to force their own narrative into reality. You like 2D? No you fucking dont you didnt watch Home on The Range, 3D is here to stay. You didnt watch Elio, a movie that was clearly fucking shit right from the very first concept art drawn by the director? Then you clearly dont like ORIGINAL ideas, hope your ready to Watch Incredibles 3 and Toy Story fucking 7

>>149970518
First of all fuck you the comedy in BNW was half the appeal
Second, your kind of missing the forest for the trees in regards to my actual point anon

>>149970476
Anon fuck off, the mysticism that people give 2D on this board is insane I swear to god. I learned traditional 2D from a Disney animator at the guild. You know what the fucking work is for learning shit the Disney way? Its fucking this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb9AKXAEOCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVCkZNuP4UM
Thats all it fucking is. Every other lesson they would have taught is either "animate this Disney character" or some fucking variation of Richard Williams's lessons from his book. In spite of that they fucking gatekeep people with bullshit requirements cause those fucks want their fucking special club all too themselves

>>149967466
At what point does a story come across as a self insert story? Kpop Demon Hunters could be considered a self insert story about acceptance and meeting expectations, but it was super successful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUe1ah_4oLY

>Why can't you look at me?
>Why can't you love me?
>All of me!

>>149970782
The way I view it, and this is a little faggy, from a story writers perspective it requires a lot of empathy and being able to view the character that you are writing as not just a reflection of you, but a real person with their own history and background, and how they would act in a situation isnt necessarily how you would react.
I mean think about Inside Out for example, Pete Doctor had a shitty experience in the studio and got fucking sad as shit, and he took that experience and turned it into a small girl from a rural town moving into San Francisco and her dealing with growing pains of moving into this new town.
Now contrast that with Turning Red where the director from Canada with asian mommy issues creates a girl who is from Canada and has Asian mommy issues and the difference is obvious

>>149965658
I want to call you a woke retard, but you’re not completely wrong

>>149970587
I watched Home on the Range when it came out and I wished I hadn't.

>>149970280
I thought most of this information was already known in stuff like the animators survival kit

>>149964776 (OP)
She's too soft on them i say TWDC is the most racist place but they hide it so well.
The current situation is an embattled clique of whites peoples having "fortress" mentality, convinced their privatised Rivendell reich is treatened by a horde of brown orcs.
The result is a retention of knowledge and creativity, and constant sabotage of movies made by the lgbt/poc, sparkled with a wiff of nepotism. Whites peoples' children in comfy posts and salaries having a say at everything and keeping the caste system in place.
Disney Pixar only get serious when the MC is white

>>149966870
I assume disney executives aren't the ones who made the company tho

>>149964776 (OP)
Disney should’ve just released the gay version of the movie. It would’ve flopped regardless but at least they would’ve avoided this whole controversy.

>>149965658
That's somewhat true but ironically, woke ideologies are mostly a white/western narrative as well.
It's widely adopted for the west to claim a moral high ground.

>>149971347
like this

>>149971326
Erode their goodwill with the public to score points with the Twitterniggers? Yeah, that's been working so well so far.

Remember how Disney relented and put Strange World in theaters because the LGBT community said putting it on Disney+ is "not a good look"?

>>149970587
I mean this would make sense if they weren't already making hoppers or gatto if you ignore the fact that's pixar's response to flow

>>149970493
If Elio didn't look like a loser fuckwad the audience wouldn't have bought that he's a loser fuckwad who thinks there is no place on Earth for him.

>>149967445
>b-but it's not the real communism
lol

>>149971422
Why does he have to be a loser fuckwad? He can still believe he has no place on the world even if he's not a fucking loser.

>>149965491
You sound upset it did so well. Good

>>149964776 (OP)
Elio was gonna fail regardless, Disney is a girl company that cannot appeal to boys to save their lives

The only two recent Pixar movies that were any good were Luca and Turning Red. but I hated Encanto which is wildly popular. Elio seems like a pretty clear case of "the original concept didn't work, but reworking it meant it was now about nothing."

>>149971614
Did Ratatouille appeal to boys? Elio sucked for so many reasons but it isn't simply because Pixar failed to appeal to boys but a wider, family audience.

>>149971893

Ratatouille mc is a fucking rat dude, animal movies barely flop at the box office beacuse boys and girls love animals.

>>149971994
And it deals with adult people with adult problems. All of Pixar's recent movies are all kid problems, and not even interesting kid problems.

>>149970441
I don't think it's a problem, but being averse to things that aren't that is a problem. The criticism Turning Red often gets is that it was "too unrelatable" which is closed minded. I liked a lot about the film and think it had potential, to me its flaws were more with the pacing and these generational trauma movies - like Encanto - hit too lightly. I wish we saw parents being actual abusive dicks so the story would have some impact.

>>149971347
I don't think investing in stories from people who aren't white men is "woke".

>>149965083
As opposed to just propaganda mediocrity?

>>149971614
The 90's were built on Disney films that appealed to boys. There were only a few isolated exceptions to this.

>>149967614
>children no longer watch movies nor animation
Geez I wonder why

>>149967611
What's funny is that their movies still have happy endings despite all the trauma dumping"

In turning red, Mei and her mom put aside their differences, in Elemental, the water and fire guys get together, the dad and son and grandpa make up in Strange world. Maybe they're using their personal experiences to tell a story about characters struggling and overcoming them by the end rather than just barf how much the world sucks and how unfun it is.

Am I missing something here? The only part I can get is how upper class these people are and how they seem to not connect so easily with people that are not as upper class as them. Then again are they really upper class just because they worked on Disney?

As for why they're flopping? Bruh I don't know, everyone wants to say they're flopping because they're ugly feminist beanmouth feminist garbage that is western and anti fun and feminist and beanmouth, I'd say it's because Disney does a shit just advertising them. I guarantee if Elio was called "Elio of the stars" it would've done slightly better.

Tldr: Pixar and Disney aren't flopping cause of trauma dumps because their all have happy endings

>>149972448
That's probably the executive meddling. They probably wanted it more one-sided where the parent learns that the child is correct, but execs are like make it so both come to an understanding.

I mean, we know Element just straight up swapped the main character to be female, because the idea of an Asian-coded male getting with a white-coded female would piss off even the liberals, and especially liberal Asian women.

>>149972484
How would you know that the artists DIDN'T want the child and the parent to come to an understanding in those movies?

Also who the fuck are these liberals that hate mixed race couples?

>>149972448
What? Turning Red's ending is the mom realizing she's wrong, apologized, and changed her ways. That's textbook the writer's generational trauma fantasy.

It's happy in the sense that the main character is happy, but that's straight up their power fantasy where their parents accept them for taking an art job instead of going into a power position like they did.

>>149972561
But it showed how much she was being irresponsible by not paying attention to what her mom wanted from her which made her turn into a kaiju, so Mei now has better control of herself for her mom's sake.

It's been awhile since I've seen the movie but I know for a fact it did not portray the mom as a one sided evil bitch and the movie wasn't inspiring kids to rebel against their families because it's sexist to love your family or some shit.

fire the people responsible for green lighting this shit without properly looking over the idea in the first place. its not entirely the creator/animator's fault here but they are responible for creating this mediocre idea and rather than the top guys telling them to fix it or change it they give it the green light and later blame them for the shit movie

>>149972162
I don't get a lot of the criticism either. Turning Red is pretty explicitly about the conflict between the freedom desired by a child entering their teenage years and a mother determined to keep the kid under her thumb out of fear. The whole thing with the panda is just a fantastical puberty metaphor.

And the generational trauma films have to use a light touch or they will very quickly stop being relatable. Lots of people have parents who weren't perfect but actual parental abuse is a deeply alienating topic. I don't think anyone's ready for realistic Encanto, where Pepa is nearly psychotic from a lifetime of emotional dysregulation, Bruno truly fucked off and wants nothing to do with his family, Isabela is despondent and emotionally numbing herself about her arranged marriage, and Mirabel has the personality of a beaten dog while Alma blames her kids and grandkids for everything while guilt-tripping them with her past and absolving herself.

>>149965938
Based take

>>149968625
I haven’t even seen Elio but I can guarantee it’s way fucking better than Home, get out of here with that shit.

>>149972592
I want to watch a movie with a whimsical or creative plot. Your movie could be a $10,000,000 straight-to-streaming movie.

You pouring 200,000,000 dollars into it doesn't make me want to check it out more with such a boring and lame premise.

>>149965269
>>149965269
>they're both right, and they're both wrong

Pick a lane

>>149967388
They all look so fucking ugly

>>149970493
>would of
ESL dumbfuck

Huh

>>149970493
What's wrong with him looking meek?

>>149964776 (OP)
No.
The problem is that they're only making soulless corporate slop. They can make rainbow faggot corporate slop, or generic corporate slop, people will still fucking hate it because it's terrible.
What they need to do is hire actual artists who are passionate about movies to make movies, but in that particular industry, you're only rewarded for being passionate about being a fucking queer, not for actual movie making talent.
They just need to bleed until it gets so bad and they're losing so much money they actually care about making good content again instead of pandering to demographic bingo.
It's going to be decades. The executive teams are incompetent, the artists are incompetent, there is no pipeline for competent creativity anymore.
That being said, olive branch; I actually think faggot animation is better than soulless corporate animation. At least the faggots care about something other than money, even if it's terrible.

>>149970280
This guy gets it. The problem can’t be solved at this point because everyone involved has more to gain from not letting anyone animate traditionally than they have to lose.

Your best bet for western animation at this point is unironically just scouring youtube for random indie animators and hoping to find something halfway close to what you like.

I really don’t have much sympathy anymore for modern creators. Most of them seem completely uninterested in making anything that isn’t autobiographical and laser focused on complaining about things they don’t like in the real world. I miss creatives who simply had a passion for telling a good story anybody can enjoy.
It doesn’t feel like a single modern artist in Hollywood would even come up with an idea like Ratatouille today. Why does it feel like nobody out there cares about anything other than how fucking oppressed they think they are? Just make a cool ass movie with cool as characters and people WILL watch.

Lightyear even existing in the form it does is the biggest indicator of Pixar’s problems. Making a good, fun, interesting, and marketable movie about Buzz should’ve been the easiest task they ever had, and they still fucked it up.

Mainstream Execs are still wondering why kids, teens and young adults prefer stuff like Glitch Productions, The Hellaverse and Skibidi Toilet over bland reheated leftovers from nearly 30 years ago.

>>149972920
Skibidi Toilet is just a shitpost. The best comparison is Youtube Poops. It's not legitimate media, in the sense that a corporation could replicate it.

>>149972592
>actual parental abuse is a deeply alienating topic
Dark topics aren't alienating, actually the opposite they get you invested. Disney used to kill their mc's parents regularly. Lilo & Stitch was dark as fuck and extremely grounded in the reality of a native Hawaiian struggling to keep custody of her sister. Mulan portrayed sexism explicitly. Even Zootopia was memorable with its portrayal of animal racism. Audiences are bored with newer films partly because they play it so safe now.

>>149972920
IMO it’s because those shows are prime for fandom. You can discuss the lore, guys can make/jerk off to porn of the girls, chicks will write fan fiction about the guys, there’s room for fandom theories and speculation.

Now think about it. What sort of fandom would Elio have besides pedophiles? There’s nothing there to engage the audience long term.

>>149964776 (OP)
>>149970240

This cunt has ONE credit on IMDB

>>149964776 (OP)
And WHO was in charge of Disney Animation when all the changes kept happening?

>>149972879
Like I said, unironically the only western creatives who want to actually tell stories instead of complain about their fee-fees getting hurt are randos on youtube. Just give up on Hollywood, on CN, on Disney and just about every other major institution and search for “award-winning animated film” like a knuckle-dragger on your preferred video platform and hope you find something you enjoy. Because wherever the few real creatives are, it’s not with the major distributors.

>>149973125
They'd get dragged down by the same execs and corpo DEI safety teams as well. It's a rot that runs deeper than woke writers.

>>149971382
People like to constantly say really stupid shit, the issue is social media gave them a very readily available platform to spout their stupid shit.

>>149970240
...by disabled she means autistic doesn't she?

>>149973135
Oh, absolutely. I think Glitch is an emergent example of that. Which is why you should hope anything you like that you find there stays perpetually independent and at worst crowdfunded on Patreon. The moment corporate bullshittery gets it’s claws into a good thing, it stops being good. But corporate doesn’t actually have a monopoly on everyone with an idea and the means to animate it. Yet.

I’m not saying they’re inherently less corruptible than the industry veterans, just that they’re forced to be creative for lack of better selling points and without a marketing team to push their product.

>>149972448
The ending is the fantasy part. It always ends with the parents realizing they were wrong and how they mistreated the kids. turning Red, Elemental, and especially Encanto.

>>149964776 (OP)
No, all of those things suck and nobody likes them.

>>149964776 (OP)
Please everyone's knows Pixar got shittier the moment John lasseter, got fired thanks to some woke feminists that wanted more power, thats why he was me too'd.
Every single animation fans knows modern Disney is terrible and thats why DreamWorks and specially Sony animation is kicking Disney's ass, because they have an actual artistic view, unlike whatever woke Disney is trying to do.

>>149964857
It's still about a little gay boy and his pinworm
>>149964908
Just having a scene where Elio is established as having a crush on a boy wouldn't have fixed the movie. In fact, it would have made it worse.

>>149964908
>Yes unironically. As much as i hate SJW types like her shes absolutely right
Sure man, let's ignore how turd is modern Pixar and main Disney animation lately.

>>149964960
Pic rel

>>149973019
>What sort of fandom would Elio have
Space nerds? Though that's a bit of a silly question, it's like saying "What kind of a fandom can Coco have besides Mexicans?"

>>149973247
China men, loved coco

>>149965083
No, I want pic related not gay brown kids being "stunning and brave"

>>149964960
Because they can never ever admit that. In their special little universe, absolutely NOTHING lgbt can be wrong, no one is allowed to think anything lgbt can be bad in any way or else they are a phobic bigoted asshole that needs to be cancelled! And that is the way things have always been in their circles.

Any pic they drew on tumblr or Twitter automatically got hundreds to thousands of likes and reposts if it was very lgbt in some way, any student film they made in school that was very lgbt coded was showered with praise and awards. So they cannot grasp how it's failing now that they are in a real studio in 2025. It always worked before without a problem. These people have ever always been perfectly rewarded for making lgbt content every single time they did it to the point that they understood that is the secret code to making an award winning piece of media that can never fail.

>>149973223
That's a fucking gross opinion, why don't you think about all the women Lasseter hugged without permission and reconsider what a terrible person you are

>>149965471
Those are crap, too. The last good film Pixar made was Cars. Then it lost the plot entirely. Inside Out was a rare exception.

>>149973247
How does the title "Elio" tell me that it's about space? Or anything other than it being a non-common US name? The average dipshit is going to just think "This is a story about some kid with a name I've never heard before."

>>149973293
How about I hug YOU without permission? We’ll cuddle all night anon, and I’ll even gently rub your ears if you’re good.

>>149973196
Elemental's case, a case can be made that the the struggle is internal. The dad never said that she couldn't say no to taking the store. She just asked for it all her life that that's what he assume she wanted.

Her gripe was disappointing her dad, as she wants to honor her dad by continuing his legacy so that he can retire, and that runs into conflict with what she actually wanted to do.

And the dad had good reason to not give her the store until she's ready, because she's bad at it. She's good at helping in the store, but real bad at running it herself because of her temper.

>>149965465
No, it didn't. I remember being a kid and laughing with my Dad about "My name's Mater. Like Tu-mater, but without the Tu." I still giggle about that sometimes.
>>149965433
This exactly.
>>149965658
No it wasn't and no it shouldn't. That's just some B.S. you people made up. And my word what delusion "Talking Cars is White Supremacy!"

>>149966737
Reality doesn't matter. Everything is White people's fault to them and they can never do anything wrong.

>>149973302
I mean it worked for Coco and Luca.

>>149967388
Exactly! For all their talk about "ORIGINAL CREATIVE VOICES!!!!" they have NOTHING to say. Nothing. Every story they tell is not only the same but it's lame as can be, too.

They were acting like they were going to be churning out game changing stuff like Star Wars or Snow White on the regular.

>>149965658
Persepolis was alright. Maus was alright. In a highly technical sense, the last part of what you said is not wrong. The problem is you GOT what you wanted a long time ago in various forms of media, but it wasn’t enough for your ilk. And now the well is so poisoned on both sides that because of the lie that is the first part of what you said about “white male narratives” being all there is, nobody’s ever meeting anyone halfway. And that’s why western animation is doomed.

People like you really do go out there pretending like American Dragon and I Kill Giants and The Jackie Chan Adventures and The Boondocks never happened. That’s why nobody takes your ilk seriously. You don’t actually want to challenge “the default” for the sake of art, you don’t want any perspective that can challenge your own.

>>149967605
>>149967611
Yep. Hit the nail on the head.

>>149967605
Don’t forget “I’m upper middle class white, but I have depression and/or a gender identity crisis so I’m going to bend this entire story around crying about it”

>>149972879
Yeah modern artist nowadays what to dump their traumas in their media instead of making an actual fun story.
>lightyear example
I still dont know how they fucked it up that much, everyone complains about the gay kiss, but for me making zurg an alternate buzz from the future was the most infuriating thing I've felt on that movie, he was originally his own characters. Heck star command did a better movie, and thats why Pixar is so mad at the point they hate to acknowledge it.

>>149970493
the middle image could've worked if they just pointed his feet outwards instead of posing him like an asian girl

>>149973377
What's funny about Lightyear is that it is an exact remake of the Lost in Space movie, right down to the twist villain.

>>149973377
The real problem with Buzz has always been making Buzz revolve around that random black woman (who he is platonic friends with but is SO important he crosses time and space to go find her again).

>>149973417
>The real problem with Buzz has always been making Buzz revolve around that random black woman
Wow that movie was so bad, I actually forgot how the whole story revolved around that woman instead of buzz.

>>149973346
None of them seem to recall that around 2002 or so there were a shitload of shows with very non white main characters. While most were more diverse than shows made today.

American Dragon
Fillmore
Lilo and Stitch
Proud Family
Samurai Jack
Hihi Puffy Amiyuumi
Xiaolin showdown
Mucha Lucha

>>149964776 (OP)
It's not economically feasible to have a main gay character in a children's movie domestically, you alienate the conservative families aka the ones with the most kids. You get banned from huge markets like China. Disney also has the habit of making their movies super expensive, which is why Strange World ended up being their biggest flop in a decade, despite the gay scenes being mild at most.

>>149968896
Shit like this has happened multiple times now, it'll never stop being funny and the companies pushing this bullshit will never stop seething about how unfair it is whenever it happens.

At this point it's so obvious you'd have to be a retard or a liar to claim minorities aren't getting a big boost from big companies.

>>149973585
Being gay is like a Chekhov's gun. You have to do something with it or else there's no point in including it as a detail or as the character's history. The only exception of course is if it's non-fiction.

>>149973585
Same-sex fetish is overrated.

>>149964776 (OP)
Apple TV is run by a gay guy and all of their movies suck. They even got John Lasseter and David Feiss to make junk.

>>149964776 (OP)
She (tranny?) is right because Elio only had gay appeal and everyone who posted about it online was gay.
Disney is just dumb, it doesn't understand how gay bait works without being marketed as gay. Learn from the Japs or just go full gay it's not like families care about Disney at this point

>>149973682
Well to be fair, nobody cares about apple animation in the first place, that's why all of their project flopped, they dont have anything to back it up.
Even Sony animation, got some recognition with open season and cloudy with a chance of burgers, while illumination made a golden goose situation with despicable me and specially the minions as a concept, even warner animation is trying to replicate it, with the new cat in the hat movie. They will probably fail at it tough.

>>149973346
>>149973473
>It's not good for art to criticize giving the opportunity to tell stories to people other than white men. You should not base your criticism of such films on feeling alienated/finding them unrelatable. You should learn to empathize with other cultures.
>Okay but didn't you know there were non white shows 20 years ago?

>>149973683
Didn't the "leaks" about the gay being removed from it come out after it was already flopping? Also Luca was straight as an arrow and it didn't stop fan artists from drawing him with Alberto.

>>149973585
Why this movies are focused on alternative people, those guys don't even want to have children, just barely few percentage want them.

>>149965658
White is the default
This has to change
Everything non white is stated to only be for that specific non white group
Other groups dont support it since its not about them
Whites dont either because they are told its not for them
If you want to oppose it you have to make your movies have a universal appeal. Which means you cant have an experience others cant relate to and you cant them people its not for them or they arent allowed to speak on the subject.
Which forces an ego check and they cant tolerate it

>>149967641
Those people just want to have the right to shove this shit down your throat without complaint. I NEED to have a Christian baker bake me a penis cake. I NEED to dress in a woman's dressing room and show everyone my cock. I NEED to make children's media filled with talks about gay people and pronouns.

It almost makes me wish I was straight because I hate these deranged retards.

>>149972592
Tangled was about child abuse. Gothel reminded me a lot of my own mom with the constant gaslighting and pity parties. It made a fuckton of dosh.

>>149964776 (OP)
>The soft sensitive creative male character is...gay (AGAIN)
This is how homos have kept the monopoly of artistic expression in First World countries for these last 3 decades.
They convinced generation over generation of young boys that creativity is feminine, so only their kin get in.

>>149973732
You know perfectly the difference between "nonwhite" shows made 20 years ago and those made today.

Actual stakes, actual threats, actual plots, actual issues and all of this possible because the authors hadèactual life experience to draw from.

Culture and race isn't an issue because now if you want to find good animation you just have to watch foreign shows (most made in non-white countries).

>>149973732
I’m not going to empathise with shitty committee-written slop. The examples I listed worked because they were well-written.

>>149973732
>no correlation
Your first post was about "challenging white as the default" and anons pointed out how it hasn't been the default for decades giving quite a few example of well received shows depicting other cultures.
>You should learn to empathize with other cultures.
And you should take your own advice.

>>149973872
Tbqh Ne Zha 2 deserves to overtake Titanic. I’ll root for a kid fighting the malevolent gods above over some dotty bint thinking about a fling from decades ago.

Writers today can't even rope in autistic manchildren, they have no chance at dragging this crop of kids back.

>>149973732
If those stories are shit, then all the empathy in the world shouldn’t require you to watch them. Simple as. If you want to beg, do it on the streets instead of taking Velma and photoshopping your face onto it.

>>149973973
Kids would watch the middle if they had access to it.

>>149973740
Luca and Alberto had a lot of physical contact through the movie so of course people would draw them

>>149973998
>Millenoids so terminally online they forgot the concept of friendship.

>>149973973
This is legit sad but an actual red pill

>>149974021
>Old boomer discovers the internet

>>149973362
Even this is downstream of marketing insisting on a “relatable” angle for new directors, and studios and schools insisting on a personal angle in pitches. It allows them to use the artist’s life in their marketing strategy and capture minority audiences and social media while claiming it’s because the personal is universal. Meanwhile focus group out any truly personal or relatable story content to death. Ten years later your artists are mad they don’t get any respect and have no experience challenging bosses or audiences with stories that didn’t make it out of the room. They don’t see the economic bubble either because the artistic hypocrisy is more insulting.

>>149965469
>what she wanted
Which was something that millions of tasteless fuckers on the planet liked already. It is like patting yourself on the back for selling fried chicken to black people.

>>149964776 (OP)
No. Elio would have sold if there was more porn of Elio's aunt.

>>149973585
Genuinely how did they manage to make such ugly characters and expect people to feel emotional about them and their relationship?

>>149974507
Grubhub perks give you deals on the food you love. The type of deals that make your boogie.

>>149972183
It is if you're doing it just because they're not white and not because you think they have a story that absolutely needs to be told.

>>149964960
kpop demon hunters is 'women of colour' and everyone loved it, because it had SOVL and the characters weren't butt ugly.

>>149964991
>>149964857
>>149966244

>>149972420
Don't project your feelings onto literal children who voluntarily watch Cocomelon and Skibidi Toilet as if they're taking a stand against woke.

>>149974678
>because it had SOVL
ehh

>>149972183
Well, it can be. The thing is, when they say ''we want stories from people who aren't white men'', they actually mean ''we want stories in line with our liberal agenda from spesific kinds of minority groups''.

>>149971994
Yes the mc is a rat, what of it? What about the characters problems, what about it particularly appeals to boys? Is Linguini cool? What about Up or Inside out? None of those look cool or fun on the surface level the way Cars or Wall-e do but they did well anyway. Parents are not going to take their kids watch that shit if it doesn't catch their interest either.
As for Elio, If it wasn't clear before it isn't a "boy's movie" despite having a boy protagonist, that's not the main target audience. Going for lower stakes and a softer look for their SoL movies that appeals to no one is bigger the problem here.
>>149973740
Yes. An employee was the one who confirmed it along with working conditions under Pixar and layoffs in an article+year old leaks apparently. >>149972879
Is simply modern writers or a trend among writers currently? Some of these personal movies and flops are being directed by people who would be considered Pixar veterans by now like Peter Sohn.

>>149975299
> Is simply modern writers or a trend among writers currently
Age. The personal stories don’t become overt until you get to the millennials, but it’s still present in gen X (Docter writing Inside Out because of his daughter, Scanlon writing about his brother, Sohn writing Elemental because of his immigrant background).
Bird and Lasster, late 60s
Docter, 56
Scanlon, 49
Sohn, 47
Molina, 39
Shi, 35
Sharafian, 32

>>149975400
Interesting I hadn't thought to look up their ages but assumed generational differences as culture shifts and changes had a part.

>>149964776 (OP)
>"Maybe let women/poc/lgbtq+ people say what they want to say"
They read what is in the script. If they are not funding the film themselves then those funding get a say.
>lgbtq+
Child grooming/recruitment propaganda would be a PR and possibly political nightmare nightmare. A shitty cartoon like Steven Universe getting flack for it is one thing, but a massive corporation doing it in theaters with mass marketing is another.

People stopped watching Disney/Pixar shit because of woke shit.

>>149974379
No, it's patting yourself in the back for making tons of money selling them something simple they want.

>>149974815
>as if they're taking a stand against woke
No, they're watching stuff that interests them, simple as that. Like Paw Patrol, never watched it but they seem to love it. Never cared for Spongebob, but they also loved it.
Now, some ugly movie about a kid with a gay-ass face and weird name, or whatever show they're pushing these days with hours of LORE? Looks like they don't care so much for that.

>>149975463
>assumed generational differences as culture shifts and changes had a part
We just blame "fucking millenials" and so on around here for a reason.

>make product with no appeal or apparent demographics besides maybe like... older women who think Elio resembles their coddled son?
>No one even bothers to see it.
Ah, I see. The problem is that its an original IP.
Huh? What do you mean Mulan and Lightyear flopped too?

>>149975519
It always felt more apparent in tv writing honestly, it feels particularly obvious when it's a reboot or revival you have something to compare it to. Or sequels years apart where you can tell very different people are working on it. Ts4 and IO2 felt very tonally different.

>>149964776 (OP)
>You should've let us make it even less appealing!
Not to say that executive meddling is a good thing, but the myopia is obnoxious.

>>149973973
What's the appeal of all those things on the right? I know kids love Minecraft, but why are they into skibidi toilet and those evil furries or whatever the bottom is? Is it edginess and blood? Same with Family guy and Amazing Digital Circus as well.

>>149972879
>Most of them seem completely uninterested in making anything that isn’t autobiographical and laser focused on complaining about things they don’t like in the real world
I mean, writers have been doing that since forever. I think the problem is more a lack of tact. They have a hard time making their gripes and personal issues relatable to people outside of their niche. They're too deep in their own heads.

>>149975695
The appeal is availability on YouTube. Television and even streaming services have totally lost their grip on child audiences.

>>149975561
>with no appeal or apparent demographic
It's clearly aimed at kids: it's colorful, has a young protagonist and cute alien creatures. If anything, some of the main criticisms it's been receiving is that some people found it too formulaic.
It honestly had all of the ingredients to be successful and at this point I've heard so many conflicting opinions as to why it didn't do so well that I'm convinced no one really has the slightest clue.

>>149975695
How is any different than shitty edgy flash animations, sfms, ytps zoomies would watch as kids with their favorite characters slapped on? Family guy compilations have been around for a long time too. The only difference is that it wasn't content farm shit churned out by the gorillions and I guess cable tv was an alternative to watching new shit but it's not like kids don't do the same with streaming.

>>149975762
It's very apparent to anyone who has even been a child why boys would think there's nothing cool about it, and girls wouldn't think there's anything cute or pretty enough to draw their attention in the first place. It's trying to appeal to this weird gender neutral homeschooled child that doesn't exist in the numbers they were hoping for.

>>149975762
>It honestly had all of the ingredients to be successful and at this point I've heard so many conflicting opinions as to why it didn't do so well that I'm convinced no one really has the slightest clue.
You sound just as clueless as the movie's creators.
Just because you personally can't see any reason this movie shouldn't have succeeded, doesn't mean there can't be more than one reason it failed.
In fact, that's likely the actual reason. You're seeing a bunch of people naming a bunch of small factors that add up to a product with little appeal. Just because they have different pieces of the puzzle doesn't mean they are wrong.

>>149975561
>Huh? What do you mean Mulan and Lightyear flopped too?
Mulan, despite the box office bomb, managed to become a great Disney classic; also you can't really consider Lightyear an original IP since it's a spin off.

>>149975789
I'd believe you if you said this about Strange World, what about truly fugly movie. I think anon here got it partly right >>149975561, I think it's meant to skew really young like preschooler-kindergarter age and parents of those kids.

>>149964776 (OP)
The test audience saw the original director's vision and none of them raised their hand when asked if they'd see the movie in theaters.

>>149965658
>NO YOU CAN'T WRITE STORIES PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIKE, THAT'S A WHITE NARRATIVE, YOU NEED TO EXCLUSIVELY MAKE STORIES ABOUT GAY OPPRESSED MINORITIES OR ELSE YOU'RE RACIST
>IF YOUR MOVIE ISN'T ABOUT MINORITIES, THAT MEANS IT'S A WHITE MOVIE!

>>149964776 (OP)
>bro either let my friends waste 100s of millions on a story only less than 1 percent of the population will actually relate to or don't hire them at all!
>disney: say no more, they're gone

>>149975712
I think modern writers in general is struggling with making stories that are applicable, instead of allegorical or outright "relatable."
They're very concerned with telling THEIR story, instead of telling A story.

>>149975995
Add to this the fact that today's audiences are composed of kids with an extremely low attention span, like, severe ADHD level low attention span.
You can't write complex characters, you can't add layers, you can't leave something for the audience to find out because the moment you do is the moment they will immediately lose interest.
Everything needs to be simple, flat and explained in the minimum details, no nuances or complexity allowed.

>>149975695
They're free and aren't made for literal babies.
That's it, that's the entire reason kids watch them.

>>149976089
I'm sure putting the inciting incident 30 minutes into the film helps

>>149964776 (OP)
No, people refused to watch it for the exact reason "xe" advocate for. People didn't want to see it with their kids because it looks extremely gay. The corporate white men were right to stop it from becoming a bigger blow out.

>>149965626
Nice try. It was a success. Pixar is so proud of it, that they entrusted Peter Sohn with directing Incredibles 3.

>>149975730
>>149976135
Huh, yeah I guess that would be a pretty significant part of it.

>>149975829
Well someone has to be wrong when there are completely contradictory opinions being thrown around. On the one hand some people are convinced the movie was sabotaged and are disappointed the gay themes were removed because they find it detrimental to the film's authenticity while on the other hand we have this >>149976200

>>149974379
>how dare you exploit a simple market for profit
>you need to be esoteric and complicated with your business or else you didn't earn
Lmao fuck you poorfag

>maybe white men are the problem
stunning and brave take that has been repeated for the last 3 decades

>>149976334
>Well someone has to be wrong when there are completely contradictory opinions being thrown around.
Clearly not, because they are all valid reasons for different people not wanting to see it.

> On the one hand some people are convinced the movie was sabotaged and are disappointed the gay themes
This one tho, is an idiotic reason, because even if someone is...these people are such a small percentage of the world that they don't matter if you want the movie to be a success.

>>149964776 (OP)
Companies care about making money above all else. If your story lacks mass appeal like she admitted they do, the company's got no reason to keep you around. Harsh but it is what it is unfortunately

>>149964776 (OP)
Companies are infested with nepo babies who want everything to be a vending machine where they swipe their birth certificate that says who their daddy is and it dispenses gogolplex dollar bills.

>>149975843
Anon he's specifically talking about existing Disney IPs that did poorly too. So he has to mean live action Mulan.

>>149976089
Part of the problem, but blaming the audience is always an easy out

>>149965331
Yes, but they were still reigned in by cis white hetero male exsecutives. She saysbthe movies should have been far more progressive than they were.

>>149975995
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with telling your personal story. You just need to be able to take a step back and make sure you're telling it in a way that other people can actually enjoy. You need some tact.

>>149967605
The most telling part of the movie "My Big Greek Wedding" is the opening credit where the second word cycles through like 5 different ethnic groups/nationalities like a slot machine picking fruit before settling on "Greek" as though it would have been the same fucking movie if it had stopped on "Klingon" instead, with just a few details changed.

>>149964776 (OP)
#flopslop

>>149967690
>The problem now is that studios only have the understanding the movie is 100% fucking PERFECT!
The reason "John Carter of Mars" had the last 2 words omitted from the title is because Disney execs insisted the actual reason "Mars Needs Moms" flopped was because somehow Mars is a bad word, not that the animation style caused children to cry in theaters
They've done that kind of blamestorming since forever to protect execs who should have been fired

>>149970240
One of my bigger joys of 2015 Twitter was harassing the trans GFM crowd demanding bottom surgery funds who were all coincidentally unable to work without ever specifying the type of cripple they were

>>149964776 (OP)
>THE OLD WHITE BRAINTRUST MAN IS OPPRESSING ME!
"how about you pitch your ideas to a different studio?"
>ew, different studio? i only want the old white braintrust man studio.

alternatively:
>CARE ABOUT UNDERREPRESENTED PEOPLE DIFFERENT FROM YOU!
"how about you pitch your idea to an underrepresented foreign studio instead, who could use the exposure anyway?"
>ew, foreign? those people are too different from me.

>>149964908
Yeah. An Elio under the creator's full creative control would've still been a shitty movie, but it would've at least been an interesting movie. Focus groups couldn't fix it, but they sure guaranteed it wouldn't be bizarre enough to merit watching, either.

>>149977867
They should just have saved themselves the trouble and money, and just canned the project wholesale.

>>149977866
lol, if they went to Hungary they'd 100% be refused due to the gay pedo shit.

>>149964776 (OP)
I don’t care about the twittard’s opinion but the argument from Disney is fatally flawed because the minority audience of adult animation fans “asking for originals” is not your fucking market for a kids’ movie. Your market is kids and their parents. That’s who didn’t give a shit about Elio and didn’t turn up for it, but they’d never rage at kids or parents for not taking their kids to their movie because they know that’s terrible PR.

>>149977867
>but it would've at least been an interesting movie
Why? What would have made it interesting?

>>149977009
Didn't watch the whole thibg yet, but imagine if the martians looked more like the Planet 51 ones. Could have been interesting.

>>149976743
I wouldn't blame him if he just forgot that exists lol

>>149975581
Even Toy Story 3 felt off for me, to be honest. I don't imagine early Pixar rehashing the twist villain thing from 2.

>>149965491
>>149974379
>Creators should make what they want
>No, they should only make what I want!
>If it bombs, it deserves it!
>If it's successful it's slop that people can't see is trash
This is the most contrarian board on this fucking site

>>149973276
Can't teach an old dog new tricks. They were trained with LGBT treats so there's no fixing to that now. Off to the McDonald's to server burgers.

>>149973585
That does go back to the same argument of a minority lead making a movie much more narrow in scope. When the studio wants it to have as wide of an audience as possible. That cannot really be accomplished when the lead and the story leans an extreme minority of people.

>>149973974
It's a harsh lesson but that is the actual reality of the situation.

A movie needs to be entertaining, first and last. Any positive messages, or uplifting story, or revealing minority stories all that shit does not matter if the movie just plain sucks. Then it's meaningless shit no one watched and the studio wasted time and money on it. It has to be GOOD, and only THEN it can be a positive message for X demographic.

>>149973834
Yeah but it was also a magical adventure where a pretty princess sings songs and falls in love with a rakish handsome guy and they sing songs together. Modern movies are missing those much more important parts.

>>149975695
Youtube is the only thing available to all kids.

Only some kids have Hulu
Only some have Disney+

The only things that are universal and can pass by word of mouth in class are free to watch youtube shorts. So they get the most chatter and views since the whole class can see it and pass it on to others to see too.

>>149975561
>>149975762
>>149975789
It really has no actual main target audience.

Boys want cool action with robots, monsters, or space ships. They are not really into the little dorky "He's just a little freak just like YOUUUUUU!" style of MC that has no appealing look, or a hook. He's the weird kid who the movie goes out of the way to inform the audience that he is the weird kid.

Girls want pretty girls on magical adventures making friends with cute animals, they fall in love or stop an evil witch. They are not into the weird awkward little boy dork of a MC.

Kids do not really like the loser MC thing, that's more of an adult thing to make something relatable to them. Kids do not want to relate to the biggest loser/freak on screen.

>>149975995
There are at least a dozen replies in this thread pointing this out in various ways. The bottom issue is that directors are only concerned with telling their own personal story through some cartoon kid. And nothing else.

>>149970240
It truly is fascinating how so many LGBBQs also happen to be physically defective and have a laundry list of other mental illnesses. Almost like God hates them or something.

>>149976435
>these people are such a small percentage of the world that they don't matter if you want the movie to be a success.
Do you have a source for this claim?

>>149972667
>What's wrong with him looking meek?
Meek doesn't sell anymore.

>>149977866
No one is going to watch pangea tv you faggot

>>149980119
>Kids do not really like the loser MC thing
God i hope the days of Shounen having dork protags is over. This guy's so bad he might as well be a chick. Would've made his fixation on Bakugo make sense.

>>149964776 (OP)
Stop making shitty originals.

>>149980485
There's a reason every single other male character is more popular than him

>>149980119
why are we pretending like underdog characters haven't been incredibly popular

>>149964908
Bitch, not one aspect of this would been original. It would be a shitty Steven universe rip off about dressing in drag and crying and other gay shit, just like every other SJW shit pile since 2015. Dont even think about calling her dogshit original.

>>149964776 (OP)
>Bruh we totally could've cooked if you didn't tell us to stop using our toilets as pots.
Nah their ideas just suck.

>>149980619
underdog doesn't mean he should be a pussy

>>149964776 (OP)
>think this might be something biting
>It's just someone whinging about gay because clearly you're owed millions of studio dollars.
You know what, this is my fault.

>>149973276
Honestly, they won't admit it even when the issue isn't directly linked to LGBT (a gay writer that just sucks ass at writing). It has to be ok or better, a 6/10 or more. Like a review site that won't go lower because it's "bad" to say a movie sucks.
>>149973223
Even Illumination is kicking ass because they have a clear goal and plan.
>make family, friendly comedy movie that with a lower budget than your competition

>>149976135
It's basically like turning on your TV as a kid and picking a random channel to watch. But now YouTube has tons of options, good and bad like the TV of the past.

>>149976687
It's the perfect storm of incompetent board of directors, uncreative creatives, shit marketing, and poor pandering.

>>149980485
Yeah, I couldn't fucking stand Deku. Made it to season 3 I think before i just gave up. He was still a whiny coward obsessed with another boy by that point, so he didn't even develop in that time. Does he ever get better or does he remain a gay wimp for the rest of the series? Is it still going?

>>149980058
Kind of a good point, before Disney+ was a thing, you could see more of their stuff on tv.
Sure doesn't help that tv makes a big deal of playing... their new crap. Can't remember last time I've seen something from the Renaissance on tv.

>>149981379
To be fair, I also watched 3 or 4 seasons and only really liked 4 characters or so.

>>149978154
true, but there are other options where they might not mind, like... Canada?
>>149980446
this Hungarian 3D web series has more views than Elio ever will by the way.

>>149972671
Then why don't you start sucking dick if you wanna get an animation job?

>>149982196
I didn't care for any of the characters except All Might really. The girls are cute but all they have is looks and not much personality. None of the guys are interesting either. Everybody's just lame and annoying. Some of them have cool designs like the bird head guy, but there's just nothing engaging about any of them past that.

>>149964776 (OP)
The solution is to stop hiring wokeoids in the first place and get some young white guys in there.

>>149979921
Flatly untrue. Turning Red and Encanto are about widely relatable family conflicts, you hate that they’re packaged with a different culturally specific charm than the one you want.

>>149982221
Over 16 years I sure would hope so!

>>149980485
>This guy's so bad he might as well be a chick.
If he was a chick he might have actually tried to nut up

>>149980348
Lmao anon you need a source for a minority being a minority?

>>149983416
>Turning Red and Encanto are about widely relatable family conflicts
Source?

>>149983507
He was talking about homophobes dumbo.

>>149983312
I think it was on season 4? There's a fat guy that's an absolute bro and a guy that looks like Tintin with a weak power, but managed to git gud.
And the frog girl is just fun to see around.
Also yes, All Might of course.

>>149983507
These days, I don't blame him.

>>149983526
If homophobes were a majority, such a gay push wouldn't be allowed either.
Stuff isn't black and white. Just because you're not gay it doesn't mean you are against it. The middle remains the biggest group, so yeah it's pretty obvious homophobes are a minority. The irony is that they pander to fags, massively, despite being another minority, when they should just make movies for the large middle group.

>>149964776 (OP)
>original creative voices
Lmao
>kick them off their own films
When you work for a large company, your work is their property, dipshit.
>stories that lack "mass appeal."
It's almost like you know they're fucking terrible and won't succeed
>let women/poc/lgbtq+ people say what they want to say
Weird that you treat women like a special minority who don't have massive international industries that cater specifically to them, but also weird that you think the company that is paying to have a movie made so they can make money should let you run your mouth and say retarded shit no one agrees with (and you are being told directly that no one shares your faggoty opinions and that makes you impotently angry) and it's their fault that you didn't get to tank an entire production and waste other people's money, while getting paid for it, just so you could "say what you want to say"
>and your advertising campaigns SUCK
this has, and will always be, pure copium. Elio was was advertised just fine. Same with many other flop movies with faggot shit in them. The same people made the Live Action Lilo and Stitch a billion dollar success. Why didn't they show up for your shitty movie about a faggoty kid and his obsession with being abducted because he feels misunderstood by all the people who don't understand why he wants to be abducted.

These fucking people need to be beaten until they understand that what they have to say is devoid of value, that their narcissistic therapy stories have no appeal, and that putting a special label on themselves does not entitle them to special treatment.

>>149983570
Look up preference falsification.

>>149980485
Weirdly shonen tends to make the dorky protagonist the most powerful character in the universe.

>>149980619
They're popular with dorky adults, not little kids like that anon was stating.

>>149977866
>"We can't pitch our ideas because the suits either refuse them or dumb them down into corporate slop"
>"Lol, go to another country and pitch there"

>>149983657
>It's almost like you know they're fucking terrible and won't succeed
Buddy you know what a "mass appeal" movie is?
Space Jam 2. That's a movie designed for mass appeal.

>>149984856
Get better ideas, or find a different avenue to get them out where you're not gambling with millions of dollars in other people's money.

>>149984856
>"i want the world's biggest media corporation to spend millions to make my idea a reality and advertise it and also give their name to it, but don't they dare have anything to say about it"
>"no, i won't consider a different studio that might have looser regulations, because apparently the point is not to have my stuff made, but to have the Disney/Pixar name attached to my terrible idea no-one would care about otherwise."

also, they don't have to "go to another country" to have a studio make something, just like they didn't have to go to Korea/Japan/France/China to have studios make cartoons for them.

I remember reading a post here when the designs for Elio were first revealed and he was sitting cross legged in a chair wearing his boy scout uniform.
Some Anon said it looked like he was designed by someone who was molested as a kid and liked it, and goddamn it remains one of the most on the nose things I've ever heard from this site.

>>149985879
I mean, it was clear that they were planning on making him unabashedly gay. Like, even more than Strange World. He could be the poster child for NAMBLA.

Disney reworked him between that time, but he's too fag-coded that even normies know he's probably gay.

>>149967381
>Ratatouille meets Inside Out
>original

>>149983820
A lot of shonen have average or dorky characters. Like Mob Psycho. But Mob has some virtues of kindness and always giving a second chance. He even learns tough love is necessary at times. Deku is forgiving to his bully (and childhood "friend") who told him to kill himself.

>>149983416
But the mom was right.

>>149983670
And in what form does it applies here? "Most people are/like fags but don't wanna say it" or "most people hate fags but don't wanna say it"? Because, as it stands know, being pro-LGBT is the "acceptable" position, at least in western media-consuming circles.

>>149980596
No?

>>149980119
>Kids do not really like the loser MC thing
One of the most popular fictional character of all time is portrayed as a huge loser even to this fucking day. Miles is also a fucking loser both in-story and a meta context but he has the most support of any hero within the past decade. The age of Wolverine being considered the trendsetter for what's popular is died after the 90's ended
>>149980485
>God i hope the days of Shounen having dork protags is over.
Lmao Japanese media is literally filled with characters like this and its not gonna stop because they generate the most wide appeal
>>149980596
Deku is consistently among the most popular characters in the series. The reason why his shitty rival is popular is because he's frequently paired up with him.

>>149988270
Harry is a loser who's a special, being a wizard. Elio is just a loser. Getting abducted by aliens doesn't make him special in the same way like in Harry Potter.

>>149964857
SPBP

>>149965658
Movies (animated or no) are a marriage between art and commerce. There is both an artistic and financial incentive and they can't live without the other. Without financing, there is no art (unless you're willing to slave away for 20-30 years with no guarantee of any rewards beyond self satisfaction). Therefore, in addition to your movies requiring some artistic merits, they also need to sell tickets and/or merchandise. The reality is, while white people aren't everyone's favourite, they're almost nobody's least favourite. The best way to make people see your film is to put people of that ethnicity in it because people like seeing themselves in the media they consume. The second best way is to put white people in it. China hates black people in their movies, but don't seem to mind white people. That kind of sentiment is shared worldwide, where ethnicity [x] doesn't like ethnicity [y], but is kinda fine with ethnicity [white].

Art should be challenging, sure. But most people don't give a fuck about that. They just want to watch entertaining stories. If your movie casts mostly white people, you're allowed to be lazier because more people worldwide will watch it. And if it sells, it's doing something right.

>>149983526
he was referring to the exact opposite actually

>everyone still responding to my post
Oh, cool.

>>149988270
Fujos like Deku for entirely different reasons.

>>149964776 (OP)

will Kpop Demon Hunters change things?

>>149964776 (OP)
Elemental and turning red?

>>149964908
Yeah but they shouldn't be somebody's vanity project either

>>149989778
>Even better it is a female led story
finally a female led story to break the mould

>>149970531
That is why is called an opinion, if you don't like something, is bad (for you)

>>149988270
Both Peter and Miles become fish out of water chads though. Their underdog status barely survived their first years as heroes.

>>149990576
But Elio doesn't remain a "loser" either, that's the whole point of most stories. Not that he was ever a loser anyway, he was just a kid that got dealt a pretty rough hand early in life and felt unwanted or like a burden to his aunt so he had to deal with it somehow.
Honestly I wonder how many of the people in this thread calling him a loser or a freak or whatever other name have even watched the film.

>>149964776 (OP)
>just let them say whatever shit they want!?!?!1
why? They suck
also who?

>>149977867
>still be shit
>interesting movie
cant be that if its shit

>>149965163
>fucking studio that was literally FOUNDED off of making original IP
that doesn't mean they have to make a movie for every shit thrown at the wall by a fag

>>149975466
Anyone who uses the word groomer unironically is a sub cranial low IQ drain on society and should be removed from it with prejudice

Well, committee-driven projects always lack any real identity. So, she's not wrong there. But, I also don't necessarily think that Disney has any real creative types worth a damn right now. They've sorta pushed out anyone with any cool ideas. Sure, Elio was "new" but it was just another sorta ugly CGI movie with a little brown gay kid. It's just that same one that flopped a couple years back.

>>149965658
let's see what can globally associated with each race, regardless of the viewer:
blacks: rap, crime, primitive behavior, not advancing past the stone age
latin americans: ancient cultures, drug cartels, illegal immigration, cheap labor for dirty work, spicy food
indians: buddhism, kama sutra, yoga, shitting on streets, sexually harassing women with broken english, filth and pollution, overpopulation
arabs: terrorism, oppressing women, pedophilia, religious zealotry
asians: martial arts, popular entertainment, advanced technology, degeneracy, conformism, oppression by state or work culture, overpopulation
whites: the most successful cultures, the most influential inventions (including cinema and animated movies themselves), the highest peaks of art in every medium(and creation of new art forms), most diverse biological beauty (3 hair colors and 3 eye colors plus their combinations to choose from, skin color not resembling poop), colonization (which usually ended up improving the colonized), tallest and strongest race

wow, i wonder why people would prefer whites in media.

>>149969146
>These are all films from a white male perspective and that's obvious if you consider things like living in suburbia, wealth/social status, attitudes towards you in your workplace
so you claim non-whites should be represented, because whites are a global minority. and then claim that things are "white coded" just for being told from a majority's perspective, despite most of the non-whites who would globally view these movies would be from a majority in their respective countries, and therefore not relate to a USAian minority's experience.

>>149965187
Is that what it's about? Would it have killed them to give me sort of fucking hint somewhere during the promotion?

>>149993065
But... it's right there in the movie's title, dude! The kid's name!

>>149990664
It has been like a month since I saw it but all I remember regarding the conflict between Elio and his aunt is him being the one being a prick to her, especially when he lashed out and said he didn't consider her family because she wanted to send him to summer camp, which is the result of him fighting other kids at the beach late at night to begin with.
The other Disney character similar to Elio is Lilo. Parents are gone, relationship with caretaker is a little strained, both are a little weird and an outcast. Nobody calls Lilo a fucking loser because she doesn't come to the conclusion that she should fuck off to space where she'll be magically accepted for who she is. The moment where Elio introspects that maybe he's the problem by pushing everybody else in life away and not even attempting to try to connect feels like the writer that had to redo the script realizing late into the movie just how weak the justification for how he as a character has in general.
The movie starts with him seeing an unfinished exhibit for the Voyager after losing his parents off screen, then it jumps to him wanting to be abducted by aliens. I don't remember seeing or hearing what happens in his life between "lonely home" and drawing alien bait throughout the movie. Only when I fill in the gaps by making up that he is bullied and because his aunt is still busy with work, despite her making the sacrifices to be with him, he came to the conclusion that there's nobody for him on Earth, does he even remotely starts to make sense.
The only thing redeemable about Elio is him refusing to be rewarded for lying and causing pain and going back home with his aunt.

>>149964776 (OP)
HOLLYWOOD'S FAILURES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MASS APPEAL OR NICHE AUDIENCES OR WHITE CIS PROTAGONISTS OR GAY BLACK PROTAGONISTS OR SUPERHERO FATIGUE OR CALARTS FATIGUE OR LIVE-ACTION REMAKES OR ANY OF THAT BULLSHIT.

IT'S CAUSE THESE MOVIES COST $150+ MIL TO MAKE IN AN ERA WHERE PEOPLE ARE JUST WAITING FOR IT TO BE AVAILABLE ON STREAMING

YOU CAN MAKE A GOOD ANIMATED MOVIE ON A BUDGET OF $50MIL. FUCKING FLOW PROVED THAT. YOU DON'T NEED MASSIVE CROWD SIMULATIONS AND FORTY CONCEPT ARTISTS TO MAKE A MOVIE. YOU DON'T NEED AN AUDIENCE SCREENING EVERY SIX MONTHS. YOU DON'T NEED TO TEXTURE EVERY STRAND OF ELIO'S HAIR ON HIS FUCKING HEAD.

IF ELIO COST $80MIL TO MAKE, IT WOULD'VE MADE IT'S MONEY BACK FROM THEATERS + STREAMING REVENUE EASILY. BUT NO, YOU HAD TO KEEP REDOING THE MOVIE AND INFLATING THE BUDGET WHILE PUSHING THE TECH TO ITS LIMIT FOR A MOVIE ABOUT A BOY MAKING FRIENDS WITH A BUG.

FUCK OFF!!!

>>149964776 (OP)
Unless it's a household name like Toy Story or Cars, it's going to flop

We don't have DVD/BR sales to carry movies anymore.

>>149994194
It doesn't help that they created that environment back in 2020 when they had all movies jump straight to streaming about a month and a half after it comes out in theaters.

Why would anyone waste their time on a $17-18 ticket when it will be on their $12 steaming service in about 5 weeks?
Back in the 80s through 00s it took at least 6-8 months to come out on VHS/DVD, then little over a year before it appeared on HBO/Showtime

>>149993994
It starts off with him overhearing a conversation of his aunt declining an opportunity to become an astronaut (despite it being her dream) because she now has to take care of him. Their relationship was doomed right from the get go because he felt like he had no place in her life, so naturally he'd start thinking about running away. Combined with his fascination with space, he comes to the childish conclusion that the best way for that to happen is for aliens to abduct him. The cosmos is so large that there surely must be a place where someone would want him right?
I haven't watched Lilo and Stitch but my assumption would be that Stitch plays a role in Lilo coping with her situation. If that's correct then... well Elio didn't have a Stitch while on Earth.

>>149988132
Other way around, my dense retarded friend: Most people don't like fags or trannies, but are afraid to say so, so the motivation to be seen as socially acceptable drives them to say that they aren't homophobes or transphobes. Being pro-LGBT is the prefence being falsified.

>>149994622
So exactly as I said in the latter part of my post, you illiterate mongoloid.

I really would love to see the original script for this movie. How much queer shit or Latinx representation was there? If all there was were hints of being gay, like a picture in his room with no other comment, then it’s relatively inoffensive. Along the lines of the lesbian kiss in Lightyear. However that inclusion sure didn’t make that movie a success. Nor did the gay kid in Strange World. Because those movies were already awful.
How about the Latinx representation? Blue Beetle had that. They talked about being illegal immigrants and tacos and said their names with baffling amounts of conviction (is that really a beaner thing to do?). That movie bombed regardless.
So I’m not seeing how leaning on the faggotry and brown people shit really have improved the situation. What is Kasey picking up on that I’m not?

>>149965491 Edit: Wow thank you so much for the gold and silver kind Reddit strangers! I was not expecting this to get upvoted so many times

>>149993065
What did you think it was about?

>>149988270
The loser outed himself

>>149964776 (OP)
Victim mentality really is a hell of a thing. It’s never your fault.

>>149988270
Okay so explain Elios abject failure despite having the widely appealing “loser dork protag” archetype that is so popular and beloved.

>>149998323
yeah because when a movie underperforms then it must've done EVERYTHING wrong

>>149964776 (OP)
We could be thinking so.