Thread 76718946

>1.Start bulking, then lose all the extra fat
>2.Body recomp. Probably slow as fuck
>3.Cutting, then start worrying about building muscle once you are lean

Out of the three.
Which one would you say is the better option to escape Skinny fat mode? Which one is the worse?

I'm evaluating all options and I need to take a decision based on real shit

>>76718946 (OP)
>>1.Start bulking, then lose all the extra fat
This gotta be the worst option. Why would you even think getting fatter is a good idea if you already fat?. Bulking shouldn't be an option if you are above 15% body fat

>>76718946 (OP)
Why would you want your body fat to be that low you'll like like a veiny trash bag.

Does body recomp actually work?

>>76718946 (OP)
I've been on option 3 whilst resistance training, six months into it and while im happy seeing my belly fat lessen, anytime my mates or someone else tries to tell me im wrong, or that I fucked up my bone density or something and that actually option 1 or 2 are correct I just stick my fingers in my ears because FUCK YOU I DID NOT WASTE SIX FUCKING MONTHS DOING THIS SHIT
I DID NOT
LALALALALALALALALALALA

2 > 3 >>> 1

recomp only works if you're just starting out though. the noob gains from doing any half decent program can and do accumulate when eating at a deficit, provided you're getting enough protein. after a ~year or so of training it's not gonna work anymore, thats when you start bulk/cut cycles

>>76718979
Not being fat is the single most important thing so I don't think you fucked up. You can always build muscle again

>>76718946 (OP)
get lean first
count calories
stop eating trash all together
makes staying active easier
being active makes it easier to build muscle and stay lean
good game

>>76718946 (OP)
I'm trying to do perma bulk and hard lifting. It's difficult to gain muscle whereas you can shed fat within a few months. Besides, you always wear clothes so having mass and filling them is preferable

Why does it seem like skipping Skinnyfat mode is super complicated?. People who start lifting while fat or skinny have it easier.

I'm a skinnyfat dude but I used to be a decently built gymbro. I started with a mix of recomp and bulking then started committing to a bulk. I saw some results and definitely got some size, but from what I know now, I wish I would have cut and got lean as a base, which is what I'm attempting now, I will let /fit/ know how it goes. I think cutting first if you're skinnyfat is the right thing to do as long as you do it right. OP this is honestly a topic I could go on and on about but this is a summary of my view on it.

>>76719045
because its literally what it sounds like and you have to fix 2 issues at once. skinny dudes just need to lift and eat more, fat dudes just need to lift and eat less. skinnyfat you gotta figure out which way you wanna go with it, if you eat less you're gonna lose weight that you don't have to spare, and if you eat more you're gonna just get fatter while still being small.

>>76719045
Fat people are so far gone that don't have hopes about looking good short term. Many of them also have good frames and genetics that allowed them to get that fat and when they start working out they progress rapidly.
Thin people are hormonally optimized and just looking at a barbell and some food makes them look good after 6mo.

>cut
Look like a less flabby pear but still dyel and gross af
>bulk
Hips get even bigger, so do gut and moobs. Minimal strength gains

So fuckn tired

>>76719075
>>76719076
So what's the right thing to do for a skinnyfat nigger?

>>76718946 (OP)
As someone who has wasted lots of time fucking around as a skinyfat, I've committed to a slow and steady clean bulk. I'm quite happy with the results so far. When the skinny part is well and truly gone, I'll do a cut.

>>76718968
Worked for me. I was a 5'11 150 skeletor with no visible muscle. fast forward 1.5 years of bulking at 185, I look better, and my clothes fit the same. IDK my body fat when I started but it was prolly close to 20% at 150.

If you look like shit already, may as well gain muscle + fat and speed up the muscle building process, because regardless it's going to be years before you look good anyways.

If you're truly skinny fat you can bulk into abs.

>>76718946 (OP)
skinnyfat "mode" just means you lost the genetic lottery physique-wise. you're in the same bucket as virtually every Indian male on /fit/ (yes, me included).
>1. fix diet, sleep, and hydration. stick with the fundamentals for lifting. don't over-complicate shit.
>2. recomp for 6-12 months at maintenance. change will come very slowly. be patient.
>3. SLOW cut until you're at 12% BF. here's where you'll notice a real change in your physique.
>4. maingain for the rest of your life.
NEVER rush your cuts or dirty bulk. your genetics will fuck you up. you have a much smaller margin of error compared to others. no point in complaining, just realize this is what you have to do.

>>76719084
/This
I'm sick and tired and don't know what the fuck I should do

>>76719084
how do you genuinely fix this without tren

>>76719084
You're doing it wrong if you're bulking and seeing minimal strength gains.

>>76719084
gyno?

>>76719147
>you have a much smaller margin of error compared to others
Brutal blackpill.

Just someone tell me what the fuck I should do

>>76719147
Skinny fat has nothing to do with genetics. It just means your entire life you've eaten like shit and haven't done any hard labor.

Skinny fat people are life long office workers who don't exercise or starving third worlders

>>76719166
Cut until you're quite lean, fuck worrying about looking skinny. You might even unlock great facial aesthetics in the process of having low bf.

Then when you're a hungry skeleton, do a slow and steady clean bulk. You don't want to get fat straight away so do the bulk properly and don't fuck it up.

>>76718946 (OP)
the best way is to cut down, get rid of all ur marbling. bulk up to ~15%, cut again, then rinse & repeat 4-5 years for your muscle maturity or muscle quality.

Bump

Seriously, you have no business bulking above 20% BF. And 20% is damn generous.

What the fuck is skinnyfat?
What body fat percentage is skinnyfat?

>>76719084
man I don't have gyno but I have bug legs and wide hips like this and thin limbs. basically I want to kms for my shit ass bone structure

I'm stuck in skinnyfat.
I was once 76kg at 178cm.
Now im 62kg and i have 85cm stomach.
I eat the 2 preotons/kg of protein, i have a clean diet but i'm at the point were if i'm weak and getting hurt. Not that i was ever strong. I was ruined from the go.

>>76718946 (OP)
It doesnt matter because you'll never put in the work. If you really wanted it, you'd already be lifting and not worried about some arbitrary timeline.
If someone does tell you a timeframe you find acceptable, you'll go the gym then quit in a few months when you see no progress and then go back to making "how to achieve" threads with a pic of Gooky the anime character waiting for someone to "redpill" you on how to get jacked without doing anything. loser

I'm on month 9 of lifting, month 5 of cutting
I'm doing C
I currently weigh ~124 pounds and I'm 5'7
My strength has improved considerably during my cut and I've gained a lot of muscle. For 2 months my weight didn't change at all but I got visibly skinnier. Just lift hard, eat enough protein, and only worry about bulking / cutting if you're too fat or too skinny.

>>76719483
forgot to mention I started at around 140, I was fat, had love handles, and still very little muscle. I was going to the gym 2x a week at that point, missing some days, and not really pushing hard. Only when I started cutting and fixing my diet did I start gaining

>>76718946 (OP)
>>2.Body recomp. Probably slow as fuck
Yes, is slow AF but it works. All you need is to maintain while keeping trash food to a side.

>>76719084
i looked like that. concentrate on doing the main 6 compound lifts and eat high protein diet, worry yourself less with overall calories. my body responded surprisingly well to back work and my widening lats started to compensate for the female hips. as you progress i suggest adding more sets to main upper body exercises like pull ups and bench press. at the start doing full body workout can be demanding. but you should load the exercises properly. If you cant finish standard 3 sets with that load, do 2 instead or drop the weight for the last one. but keep working out and keep trying to progress your lifts

>>76718979
You did not waste shit, it's the most sensible option.
Test, hunger, looks, the time it will take to lose the fat once your bulk cycle is over are all better when starting as close to 10% as you can.
You would also have to do the duration of the cut you are doing now plus the extra months from the fat you would have gained from deciding to bulk when you're already fat.

>>76719721
Appreciate it breh, I think my only hope is just accepting I need big back and shoulders

>>76718946 (OP)
Skinnyfat = eat like shit + inactive
You can fix both of those at the same time
>1) stop eating like shit - eat good clean healthy foods - lean meats & fish - green veg - healthy carbs in moderation as preferred - fatty meats in moderation
>2) become active - start lifting weights - start engaging in some kind of cardio exercise - engage in sport(s) if you like
There's a misconception that skinnyfat is the "default" state of a man's body, but it is not so
If you become active and eat properly, you will naturally take on a healthy level of leanness at your appropriate weight for your height & frame
This is your base for all the gains you want to make in future. It is your base because (a) you've shed all the excesses that cause you to be flabby, unfit, weak and unconditioned, (b) your build at this point is already good enough for 99% of normal women to sleep with (if coupled with charm, alcohol etc.)

bump

Who cares about being a bit fat, other than women and fags? Skinny fat and skinny with no muscle are both beta physiques. Unless you're very overweight or straight up obese losing weight should not be on your mind at all. Having muscle with up to 25%-30% bf is preferable to anything other than lean with muscle and it's not even an argument. Why would anyone lose all their body fat, then try to gain muscle? You will either struggle to make good progress by trying to keep all the fat off, or put it back on with a bulk?

>>76718946 (OP)
If you never lifted you can make noob gains for a few months or so without needing extra calories
I would just cut and lift

>>76719084
You need to lose 50lb, then you will get otter-mode.
You will naturally gain muscle as you continue lifting and eating well, but its a joke that someone with your body type would try over-eating in hopes of gaining muscle.

>>76719147
>skinnyfat "mode" just means you lost the genetic lottery physique-wise.
Nah it probably means you eat too many seed oils.

>>76719336
this.
Bulking is a meme.
If you can't gain muscle while lean, you probably weren't really gaining it in the first place.

>>76720304
>Who cares about being a bit fat, other than women and fags?
Most woman seem to prefer otter-mode on men, just as most men prefer skinny on woman.
About 70% of hypertension risk is entirely dependent on your level of obesity, so when you lose excess weight a whole bunch of good health things happen like improved cardio endurance, removing mild depression, feeling a new zest for life, improved energy levels, optimizing hormones, etc.

Imagine you are carrying an extra 10% bodyweight. This means your heart is working 10% harder all day, and your muscles carrying 10% more weight.

>>76720338
Depends on who you ask or where you look, a lot of women also seem to prefer 'dadbod.' Also skinnyfat is not the same as actually being fat. Going from 25% to 30% bf isn't going to give you a heart attack.

>>76718946 (OP)
take test + mast and do a recomp

>>76719068
I'm between starting a cut and recomp

it is really a limbo, i tried recomp like twice and it just doesn't work, it doesn't
there are too many variables to take care of, you see no progress, kills your motivation

I think that for my next try i'll just starvemaxx then bulk, lifting is pointless since you can't progress weights if you're not eating a lot

maybe recomp is possible in theory, like in a lab with all ideal conditions, but it shouldn't be advised

>>76718977
Nah it doesn't. You just eat less while lifting heavy and your body doesn't change. You actually lose muscle and gain fat, it's catabolic and estrogenic and especially it is xenophobic.

Can I interest you in a nice dirty bulk?

>>76720304
>Who cares about being a bit fat, other than women and fags?
It looks like shit
And guess what not everyone here is an introvert without a girlfriend or social circle. Some of us unironically want to look good to boost social status

>>76718946 (OP)
I did three. I still gained muscle while in a deficit because I was so new. If you’re paranoid about getting fat again like I am maybe do cardio to help offset your surplus calories. I run 15 miles a week.

>>76720479
>listen bro your only options are jumping straight into a strict maintenance diet of grilled chicken and activated almonds or stuffing your face with junk fatty foods like a slob
retard

For me, it's cutting then start bulking. Worst case scenario, you go from skinnyfat to skinny which is still an improvement.

>>76720440
>>76719104
do recomp 1st but don't drag it out, 2-3 months tops. will let you have plenty of energy for your training during noob gainz phase then start a well thought out cut

>>76719166
CUT

>>76720387
>Also skinnyfat is not the same as actually being fat.
Skinnyfat is a meme.
Just means you have excess bodyfat, and would look ottermode if you got lean enough.

But agree that some woman like dadbod and bear mode.
But most younger girls like ottermode, so just depends what you're going for, and what is attainable.

This is what skinnyfat looks like, not the clickbait YouTube faggotry op posted. Yeah if you are clearly overweight then shed a few pounds, but every man's no1 priority should be to be as strong with as much muscle mass as possible. Getting lean doesn't guarantee anything, you will still probably be ugly. Being and looking strong will get you respect from men and women, and well as from yourself. Knowing that if some average deluded bully asshole who thinks hes tough gets in your face you could throw him through a wall will get you pussy on its own. Being a skinny little nerd freak will just add to your problems. Get strong first (it only takes a year to get you to like 75% of your potential) and lean after.

>>76718946 (OP)
Most skinnyfat people are just fat. Just because it didn't blossom into fun blown obesity doesn't mean you aren't.

You can't realistically gain much muscle and lose fat in the same day but you can in the same week. If you have 3-4 days preferably consecutively where you're exercising with the intent of gaining muscle and eating maybe 200 kcal over maintence you'll gain muscle. Followed by a 3-4 phase where you're rapidly depleting glycogen and eating a heavy deficit which keeping protein consumption high you'll lose fat.

This is what recomping actually is, it's microcycling between bulking and cutting. It's is NOT trying to find a magical middle ground where you're using both of those metabolic pathways simultaneously.

>>76719117
35 poons over 1.5 years is 220 calories a day
I'd say people often tend to overbulk and shoot for like 500+ a day or maybe even more

If I could go back, I'd eat intuitively, not so much worrying about 'bulking'. My routine was intense enough that i was gaining strength and muscle constantly (I was eating a ton too), but I sometimes figured 'i'm bulking' and got some extra fat that wasn't necessary. It made the mentality of losing weight harder. So if I could start over, I'd go skinnyfat->generally big, and then when came time to get aesthetic, I'd do a very slow cut with extra cardio, and be gentle to myself. It's okay if it's a slow time as long as it's a consistent time, and it's better to avoid trying to get it done 'now' because that only swings you from one extreme to the other, which your body doesn't like. Do what's anabolic, bros, and be kind to yourself with low stress.

>>76719084
You will unironically never make it and it's your parents fault for feeding you goyslop as a child and your mother eating like absolute SHIT before and during pregnancy.

If I'm just fat, do I cut? Or body recomp for a while? I'm 93kg. I believe my bf to be 30% though I did not measure it, I can only estimate with charts. If I cut to 15% I would still be 80kg so not a stick.

>>76721097
Recomp
Then slow cut
Then slow bulk maintaining some degree of leanness

>>76721066
Not him but all the men on my dad’s side are pear-shaped, young and old. My brother and I both had to work extra hard to have decent physiques.

>>76718946 (OP)
i did a successful recomp, but now im dealing with excess skin around my abdomen. how do i get rid of this shit

Try exercising.

>>76718946 (OP)
>3.Cutting, then start worrying about building muscle once you are lean
coming from an ex-skinnyfat: this is the only thing that works
cut down to auschwitz mode and then lean bulk

I'm 87 kg for 1.88 m, 22-23% body fat. You think it's better to cut, bulk or body recomposition?

>>76718946 (OP)
If you already have fat why do you think gaining extra fat with bulking is a good strategy? You already show you don’t have self control so why would you be able to lose MORE weight later than you need to lose now?

>>76720482
Being tall and white is more important to attract whores than being skelly

>>76720762
That's not skinnyfat, that's fucking obese

>>76718946 (OP)
haven't we solved this shit already?

>>76718946 (OP)
im skinny skinny lol. 125lbs. but I like that I can just work my way up. blank slate baby

>>76721448
>forgot to mention the gear

>>76720505
Post is obvious satire you fucking spastic 4chan basement dweller

>>76721448
Great advice

>>76721305
Cut.

>>76720762
>>76720304
We now have good takes on skinnyfat threads. Where is this board heading to?

>>76721498
I didn't forget anything bitch

>>76721661
WTF happened in 2022, looks amazing.

>>76721448
>>76721661
All this with only 80g protein and eating below maintenance??

>>76721661
>no mention of the trt
lol

>>76721661
>just eat 80g of protein and cut out fast food and look like the terminator in 2.5 years bro
lmao you'd have to be a Mike Isreatel viewer to believe this shit

>>76721661
natty my ass

>>76718946 (OP)
Copied from another post: Put the fork down. It's that simple. A little less than a year ago, my brother started not eating at work and only eats when he comes home after work, he was never much of a morning eater anyways, so that worked well enough for him, and he's currently lost like 30-40 kilos, or something. And he was a giga fatty before. Just by basically not eating for the first eight hours of his day. In his defense, he works for a furniture company where he lugs heavy couches around all day, but still.

>>76720762
This is not skinnyfat, Chris was obese here. He’s like 215 at 5’10
Jfl

>>76721661
Can't this board spot gyno anymore?

>>76721690
Lean bulking
>>76721696
I must have eaten around 80g up until July 2020. Then gradually increased to the 150g I eat today.
>>76721697
>>76721709
>>76721743
>>76721809
I'd be mad too if I was dyel

>>76721787
I wish I could curb hunger. I don’t even like eating but if I don’t it really fucks with me.

>>76721951
Hard work helps. It is a natural hunger depressant. Get a job where you lug a lot of heavy crap around all day long.

>>76718946 (OP)
Bulk for a week at a time until tendons and or cns is fried and go nuts. And then add refeed days lifting all day with heavy high volume before even eating as you might as well use the bulk to put on muscle. The worse your diet and sleep etc the sooner you need to refeed to stop suboptimal fat/muscle loss/gain. And you usually want to be lifting more frequently on a cut as obliterating your muscles on a hard cut just sets you up to be tired next bulk.
>is actually good at diet

>>76721939
A natty wouldn’t get this defensive. It’s okay

>>76721951
Garlic evoo butter and a ton of vegetables? And or low on fats/protein you need to superdose protein then top it off as the day goes on and keep cabs constant or your bmr drops and anything you eat turns to fat.

>>76721661
Amazin

What was your height / weight from start to end? I’m 5’10 and this is goals

>>76721661
What was your routine? What exercises did you do for each muscle group?

>>76718946 (OP)
The benefits of long bulking/not starvation mode lowered bmr regardless of test levels from muscle mass and bodyfat%:
>increased protein synthesis(that includes collagen synthesis)
>increased glycogen storage
>increased(not downregulated) endocrine system function(hormones)
>more energy
>better recovery

Optimal bf%
>endocrine system again
>regulated hormones so no high estrogen and grogginess
>faster gains

So basically sticking to a bulk is how to put on muscle asap and bf% is a boost to all characteristics, it can be beneficial even if fat to bulk and sometimes speeds up yearly progress towards goal physique especially since its easier and the results are permanent unlike fat loss. Having more muscle is similar to the across the board boost of lowish bf%.

>>76718946 (OP)
Literally just exercise, then cut for a few days after months of exercise. If you don't build the muscle first, there will be no fat to burn.

>>76721661
When you say a full body routine, what kind of exercise selection were you using? I find doing full body makes each gym session last quite long, which is annoying compared to U/L

>>76721939
So what was the routine after hitting 1/2/3/4?

>>76719084
run

>>76722057
>>76722057
Nta

>powerlifting program bench -1x/wk if focusing delts
>lower volume 2x/day
>hypertrophy whenever
>back 2-3x but high intensity
>legs 2x/wk if <100lbs or so over bench
>smaller muscles get worked more
>chest/delts high volume and 1-2 rest days avg
>lifting week can be 5 hard days or 2wks, weekend is 1-3 days instead of deload just do arms/delts/forearms and less legs or take 1-2wks for 50% 1rm blood in muscle and work up for injury over 1mo usually
>go nuts for a month or 2 until muscles feel stiff to see where your conditioning is and how to program deloads
>basically everything try dropsets instead of over 8 reps depending on the lift
>legs id just do dls a lot overhand, front zercher and back squats for core, cleans, machines for quads/calves, leg raises and back extensions
I have a pretty sick physique. This is the knowledge accumulated after a solid inflateable pool of vodka and a few gallons of weed.

>>76721986
Has anyone tried extremely short term bulk-cut cycles, like bulking for 24h after a lifting day and cutting the other days?

>>76723024
Yes (>>76721041)
although you want a few days of each. You can switch between glucose and fat primary metabolisms quickly if you're not obese. The downside being it doesn't allow for adequate glycogen replenishment which is important for maintaining or increasing your lifts. So in a normal week it would look like

250g+ carb refeed, lift, 10% over maintence
10% over maintence
10% over maintence
Lift + targeted glycogen depletion
30% under maintence or lower
30% under
30% under

You can sequence it a few diffent ways or change the cycle length. But the important aspects are lifting having refed and getting rid of the excess glycogen at the beginning of the cut to ensure the best fat burning in that limited window.

>>76718946 (OP)
I don't know why people overcomplicate this. Your first priority is to change your shitty goyslop grainsludge diet that turned you into a skinny fat in the first place. Simultaneously begin working out consistently. CICO is real so make sure to track them to have a real understanding of how much food you're consuming.

>>76722009
At the start I weighed 158lb with zero muscle on my frame. By July I dropped down to 138lb, and started building back up. Weight has since fluctuated between 190lb and 170lb during bulks and cuts respectively.
>>76722033
At the start I only worked out with a pair of adjustable dumbbells that went up to 35lb each, so I had to get the most out of them. I did a dumbbell only full body 3 day routine, I wouldn't recommend doing that if you have access to an actual gym with actual weights, but full body 3 times a week is definitely a good start.
>>76722057
>I find doing full body makes each gym session last quite long
It is, iirc each session took me between 2 and two and a half hours. My exercise selection was standard dumbbell stuff, curls, incline press, flies, overhead press, bulgarian split squat etc. There are plenty of good full body routines to choose from, what I did was out of necessity (lockdowns).
>>76722068
A standard 5 day split, essentially U/L for 4 days with an extra arm day thrown at the end. This year I switched to a standard 4 day U/L for time constraints reasons but my lifts are still going up steadily.

>>76718946 (OP)
I mean, the fastest way is just cutting but since your muscle mass is very low, daily caloric intake is going to be abysmal. It's probably best to hit the gym hard but remain at maintenance calories or a slight deficit. There's a lot of room for noob gains, you can effectively lose as much fat as you gain in muscle and only require a slight deficit after a year of this to see your dickroot.
Bulking is pretty retarded, you will gain the same amount of muscle and all the excess calories will be converted to fat. Sure if your nutrition is suboptimal you won't gain as much muscle but assuming that you weigh yourself and calculate calories, you can find the sweet spot within a month and just stay there.

>>76718977
Yes. Only weak willed fatties think it doesn't

>>76718946 (OP)
A modest bulk. The reason skinny fat looks so bad isn't because you're particularly fat, but because you have no muscle mass whatsoever. As you gain muscle you will look better without losing any fat. If you begin cutting you'll look less fat, but you'll still have no muscles, and you'll probably still look skinnyfat anyway.
However, many fat fat people delude themselves into thinking they're skinny fat. If you're fat fat you should cut.

>>76723261
What did your U/L 4 day + arms program look like? Like what exercises, etc.

And what does your U/L look like now in terms of the exercises?

>>76718946 (OP)
A real body recomp is a sensible bulk 200-400cal above maintenence. A body recomp should see you gain weight initially, both muscle and bf, which will see your bmr increase with your muscle mass. Then slowly you will reach maintenance or a slight deficit without changing anything. At that stage you can now introduce some regular cardio and start to get you bf% down. Trying to recomp at maintenance or in a deficit is why 9 out of 10 people give up and why most diets fail. It's shitty advice to expect an average person with a track record of no discipline to suddenly change their entire life overnight and endure hunger and low energy when they aren't used to it. Much better to change 75% of your diet for the better and introduce some hard training while still being allowed to indulge a little.

>>76723493
STOP TELLING SKINNYFATS TO BULK

ONLY GUTSANON EVER GIVES THE RIGHT ANSWER
IM MAD

>>76718946 (OP)
Option 1 is the dumbest thing imaginable.
>already be fat
>put on even more fat
>oh don't worry about that just lose it later lol
The fuck? Why not start losing it now instead of making the problem worse?
>because I'm afraid I'll look small in a shirt and this way I'll be...LE BIG
Who fucking cares? That isn't a good thing if your "big" is coming from fat and not muscle.
It's like people here have no concept of body composition. By which I don't even mean how to achieve a good one, I mean they literally don't seem to understand what it even is.
Option 3 is only marginally less dumb because there's nothing stopping you from still lifting while getting lean.
>b-but my numbers will go down!
Again...who fucking cares?

>>76723539
Previous routine:
>Day 1
Bench 4x6
Barbell Rows 4x8
Db press 3x8
Dumbbell rows 3x10
EZ bar curls 3x8
EZ bar wrist curls 3x12 (fat gripz)
>Day 2.
Squat 3x6
Calf raises 3x25
Front squats 3x8
Ohp 3x6
Lateral raises 3x10
>Day 3.
Curl variation 4x8
Front raises 4x8
EZ bar wrist curls 4x12
Wrist roller, 4 reps each side
>Day 4.
Rest
>Day 5.
Same as day 1
>Day 6.
Rest
>Day 7.
Same as day 2
>Day 8.
Rest.

Current routine
>Day 1 Upper
Bench 4x6
Rows 4x6
Db flies 3x12
Pullups 3x12
Alternating db curls 2x20
One arm db tricep extension 2x12
Ez bar wrist curls 3x14
>Day 2 Lower
Squats 3x8
Calf raises 3x30
Front squats 3x8
OHP 3x10
RDL 3x8
>Day 3 Active rest
5km run
>Day 4 Upper
Db press 3x10
Pullups 3x12
Db flies 3x12
Db rows 3x10
Hammer curls 2x20
French press 2x12
EZ bar wrist curls 3x14
>Day 5 Lower
Same as day 2
>Day 6 rest
>Day 7 active rest
10km run or mountain hiking

I'd surely add or change things if I had access to a gym but that's what I work with from the comfort of my home gym

>>76723587
Skinnyfat isn't fat retard

>>76718946 (OP)
If you're skinny fat it means you have no muscle mass and not that much fat so you can easily just lift in a slight deficit and build muscles while losing a bit of fat you need to lose.

>>76723638
Perfect example of the retardation I was talking about.
What does "fat" mean to you? Big and round and taking up a lot of space?
If you're skinnyfat, it means you're bodyfat percentage is too high which means YOU'RE FUCKING FAT, shit for brains.

>>76723638
Perfect example of the retardation I was talking about.
What does "fat" mean to you? Big and round and taking up a lot of space?
If you're skinnyfat, it means your bodyfat percentage is too high which means YOU'RE FUCKING FAT, shit for brains.

>>76723723
Fat means being overweight, and this has a real clinical definition everyone can measure and agree with. Guys who are skinnyfat aren't overweight, they just have a body fat percentage that is creeping up to and around 20% in combination of having no muscle mass. Guys who are legit fat will usually have grown at least some muscle mass, because that's what the normal male body does naturally when you gain weight. OP specifically said skinnyfat, and as usual all the retards come out completely missing the point telling newbies to diet straight off the bat as well as to start training, which is proven to be doomed to failure most of the time, gives them too much to do too soon, makes progress slow and demoralising, and is completely unnecessary since they don't have a lot of fat to lose to begin with.

could someone have tape worms without the side effects? i think something is going on.

yesterday i drank a 30g protein shake and ate two huge meals. lunch and dinner and it made my stomach fat/full then when i woke up my stomach was back to being flat and I only poop 1 small piece

>>76718946 (OP)
Being skinny fat means you don't have the routine down. It's utterly retarded to start bulking when you don't know if you will stick to working out, because you might end up worse than when you started. Start cutting and building a routine. Once you are into it, then you think about bulking.

>>76723940
Protein is pretty much all used up by the body shit is mostly carb waste.

>>76723984
Yeah bro just start dieting and train at the same time, just because you bf isnt below 15%. Being tired and hungry all the time while trying to lift and seeing minimal gains is great for a novice, that's why diets have a 99% success rate!

>>76723936
>Fat means being overweight
No, it doesn't. You mean exactly as I thought you did and you only keep doubling down on it.
>gives them too much to do too soon,
Oh no, you mean they'll have to eat better AND be more active? Why, that's just unreasonable.
>makes progress slow and demoralising
Not my problem, skill issue, git gud, etc.
>and is completely unnecessary since they don't have a lot of fat to lose to begin with.
Yes they fucking do. Someone who is 20+% bodyfat does have a lot to lose. You're conflating it with how much lean mass is left over, which was never the issue. They can gain lean mass from there and in fact it will be easier to do so since nutrient partitioning is improved once you lean out. You seem more concerned with their number on the scale or how much "space" they're taking up instead of what they're actually made up of.
That comes in time.

>>76724006
The results of the cut and a fit body are more than enough "gains". If you can't stick to a diet and a simple routine because you don't immediately see gains, then the only thing you will bulk 2 months down the line is your fat percentage. Bulking with excessive fat, fucking hell, this board. I swear nobody actually lifts anything here.

>>76724013
But training while at a surplus of a couple hundred calories a day will not result in excessive fat gain. A person will also gain muscle mass as a result of those surplus calories, and at a higher rate with the added benefit they won't be starving and having to live and train with low energy. Progress is the most important thing and all you are doing is advising someone down a path that will make things as difficult as possible immediately which will likely result in them giving up altogether. I'll say again, skinnyfat is a different thing to being fat and medically overweight, and pretending it isn't is dishonest. Every picture showing skinnyfat around this type of discussion is just a skinny dude with a little excess fat around his midsection. All they have to do is replace some of their diet with whole foods and protein, and start lifitng. Its that simple. There are people itt who are actually advising starting by cutting rigjt away, something even vetaran lifters dread and regard as tortue.

>>76724093
>But training while at a surplus of a couple hundred calories a day will not result in excessive fat gain
Anon, I agree 100%. The trouble is that is not what people mean by "bulking".
>they won't be starving and having to live and train with low energy
Here's where we differ, I have minimal sympathy for someone "training with low energy" when they have a higher bf%. They're literally wearing some excess energy around their waist, or wherever it is they store it.
> All they have to do is replace some of their diet with whole foods and protein, and start lifitng. Its that simple
Again, I completely agree. But that is not what the retards on this board mean when they say "cutting". It seems we mostly have the same ideas here and are just talking past each other.
> something even vetaran lifters dread and regard as tortue.
Again, "mostly" because I have zero problem with someone undergoing "torture", I just care if it objectively works (which it will). My honest opinion is if someone doesn't want to undergo any hardships to get out of it then maybe they shouldn't have let themselves get skinnyfat to begin with. Because it doesn't happen naturally assuming the person is active and has a good diet. They're fucking up somewhere.

>>76718946 (OP)
A man with 87 kg (low muscle), 1.88 and 22-23% bf is skinny-fat or straight up fat?

>>76721992
Forgive me for finding the certainty behind these posts highly comedic

Diet. It’s your diet. That’s all it is, unless you have some sort of hideous genetic abnormality. The food you eat makes you look like this
>this means I need to start eating exclusively plain chicken and broccoli and I can definitely keep that up
No. It just means no more SLOP. Stop eating SLOP and you will be fine. You can still eat pizzas and burgers and have a beer if you want, just make sure you aren’t eating fucking fast food and soda and milkshakes and ice cream and all that stuff. It’s the permanent snacks. You shouldn’t eat any snacks at all. How does that sound? No more crisps and sweets and chocolates. It has done this to you and you have forced it down over the years
>well guess I just need to drink a gallon of raw milk a day and eat tuna and rice six times a day
Have you considered eating like a normal human? Have you tried that first? You should try that first and see how it goes

Worrying about “bulking” is the same as people who have never picked up a weight worrying about what stupid Olympic lift they are going to attempt at their commercial gym. It’s idiotic

>>76725280
Thanks roidy

>>76725354
Any time twig boy