Thread 105606556

This is a fucking nightmare. 6 years ago it was 1%. I don't feel special anymore. I'm from the times when 0.3% of people could code.
https://thejournal.com/articles/2022/03/11/over-half-of-students-surveyed-see-coding-skills-as-vital-but-over-a-third-lack-learning-access.aspx

In fact I'm so old I remember when "estimates are that less than 1,000,000 people worldwide know how to code" (this was almost 20 years ago)

>>105606556 (OP)
>45% of people
so basically 90% of under 30 guys?
grim

>>105606556 (OP)
Using an llm doesn't count as knowing how to code
I made a 20000 line python project and I have no clue about python or coding in general

>>105606556 (OP)
Everybody lies.

>>105606556 (OP)
discord bots and toy langs don't count which would probably drop it by a lot

>>105606556 (OP)
nah bro i graduated from my CS degree 3 years ago and i can tell you maybe 45% of cs grads can code lol, optimistically. half of /g/ is conzoomers larping too, and the general population is even more hopeless. maybe 45% of people under 30 have installed python or something, but actally competent people are still rare

>>105606685
Doesn't matter since gemini is a better coder than you

Doubt it lol. Lots of young people can barely even use a computer, and have trouble with directories.

>>105606703
sure? that's irrelevant to people knowing how to code tho

>>105606716
If you can use gemini you can code now

>>105606556 (OP)
>45% of people under 30 know how to code.
Probably just means they know how to shit out a barely functional python script which is 90% just calling a library that someone else wrote.

>>105606685
this p much

its not hard for an average person to put together some basic script and say they have coded something. however, its really difficult for the average normie to summon the discipline to give a fuck about how software actually works, all the minutiae and features of the language they use, the different design patterns and learning how to apply them in a way that makes them actual engineers and not just basic copy & paste scripters.

if i had to learn how to program again, i probably wouldn't be nearly as successful. i just don't have the autism and the hunger for it at this point in my life. it was a weird point in my 20s when i was willing to throw away 5 years of my life just to grind programming projects just for some vague bragging rights (i barely even gave a fuck about employment)

>>105606556 (OP)
There is zero chance this is true. I'd estimate it as 5 percent have ever coded. Way less are good

>>105606556 (OP)
i'm over 30

>>105606737
people can ask ai to shit out code but they themselves still can't code at all. for the purposes of feeling smug and special (as op was complaining about) that's all you need to realize.

>>105606556 (OP)
Frivolous Claims and clickbait articles doesn’t make that true at all, let alone an article that uses a questionable statistic with questionable methodologies and sample size. If it helps you sleep at night, AI dependency is making that literacy go back to 1%. Ask me how I know
>t. Senior Manager

>>105606556 (OP)
does displaying "hello world" count as coding?

>>105606556 (OP)
Knowing how to code doesn't imply you know how to make software

>>105607144
i think this is the main point here: a shit on of people did do "hellow world" at school. I would argue that in my country 100% of people can write a hello world program.

>>105607272
also in python a hello world is literally ' print ("hello world") ' so a lot of people are far closer to this than to any real stuff.

bu-but I was told zoomers don't even know what a folder is. Right goys? The esoteric knowledge of printing a document dies with us! I'm speshul!!!!

>>105607278
the problem is not doing one liners: the problem always is with big and complex programs and needing to add shit to actually finish a project. yes, of course, "hello world" script may show some skill, but debugging and changing upon existing structure is where the real skill is. I can ask the agent based LLMs to do a lot of projects for me that will even have complexity and usecase, but sooner or later the Agent based LLMs will start making shit that I have to personally change. Even If I do not have to change it personally i must know what to ask of the LLM.

>>105607333
Bros really vibecoding millenials are cooked :sob: :pray:

>>105607359
if you know how to vibe code, and you know how to fix some of the things, it can work.

Its a game of puzzles : that is what coding is: its making pieces of puzzle to fit in a way that the whole mosaic makes sense and has use. Just look at old church mosaic: every stone in it would look out of place but together they make sense.

If you vibe code in a way that the different stones are assembled piece by piece and you then glue them in the final form, you can vibe code art, but if you say "yo, make me a church mosaic" to the Sonnet 3.5 model, it will do jack shit.

>>105607144
that is unironically the hardest part of any project. Once you get basic environment setup you can build from there.

>>105606556 (OP)
bro, it's obviously fake. 45% is higher than the real literacy rate. they can't even read multi-page documents and you believe somebody telling you that this many people can program?

>>105606703
I've used gemini 2.5 pro extensively and even when arguing with it for ages I still get sub-par results. It's faster to do stuff myself.

>>105606556 (OP)
I probably count as part of the 45% but only because I fiddle around with Minecraft server configuration code

>>105606556 (OP)
excel is the world's most popular programming language.

>>105607384
Or you can use your mental capacities to do the basic high school algebra and abstract thinking that coding is based on.

>>105607766
for some simple tasks, and for some components to be used in bigger projects, you can be more efficient using agent based LLMs.

>>105606556 (OP)
i know how to use loonix so i know how to vibe code

Less than 1% of the world population knows how to code. I don't mean printing "Hello World" but actually building useful software from scratch. Fewer can understand and apply high level math such as machine learning. Building and deploying a dynamic web app is already wizardry to most people.

It gave me confidence as a self-taught programmer to learn that building basic web apps is what undergraduates do for their graduation projects. I have built four dynamic web apps, a web scraper, and two neural networks over the last two months.

I am grinding through a guantlet of 100 leetcode problems on various topics and then will build a novel neural network before applying to the lowest entry level programming jobs.

>>105607819

People are still paid well above minimum wage to do basic IT work like setting up computers for offices and maintaining them.

When you are applying multivariable calculus to do your job you are at the level of researcher and scientist. As a man who has shoveled coal for a living you underestimate how rare these skills are.

>>105607839
applying calculus doesn't make you a researcher or scientist. get your head out of your ass.
t. stem phd anon

>>105606556 (OP)
>45% of people under 30 know how to code
bs, it's 45% of students:
>2022/03/11
>In a January 2022 survey of 1,000 U.S. students commissioned by KX, a global provider for real-time analytics and data management software, 45% of U.S. students said they can currently code or are learning at least one coding language, and 35% believe that being able to code is a core life skill.
also, this article is from 2022. 6 years ago is 2019... are you saying 1% of the students knew how to code, even though practically every engineering student is taught to code?

>>105606556 (OP)
>>105608280
also, this is making me realize how lazy you all fucking faggots are. the article is only like 12 short paragraphs long, and clearly NONE of you retards even read it, since most of you assumed what the OP claimed as true, and even the retards saying it's fake didn't post that fucking line that clearly shows how shitty the survey even is, and that its universe was STUDENTS, not people in general.

>>105606556 (OP)
Depends on what you call 'coding'. I write shell scripts but i would never call myself a proper programmer.

>hURR guise print("Hello World!") amirite fellow programmars?!/!!!L_Shift+One!1?! guise am a PROGRAMMIST now hirings pl0x
considering that most people think HTML is coding, it's most likely still around 0.3%

>>105607540
Same but I found gemini 2
5-pro is by FAR the worst of thr big llm's. Claude and gpt4 are both ok, gpt is usually better but tends to stub out code and refuses ro write it. I also found deepseek to be quite good, just a step under claude.
Still, all of them are useless. The best they can do is about a pic I can shit out in 30m, but they take 8-12 hours of constant babysitting to get there and still the output is pretty low quality with a lot of duplicated and disconected code

>>105607839
you are wrong. Setting up computers and other basic shit isn't a job anymore and the next simplest thing (helldesk) does pay about minimum wage. Doing a phd gets you in deep debt and even if you get funding, you get 1/5 minimum wage. After that there are virtually no jobs and they pay like shit in the vast majority of domains, and good luck being allowed to do research. Can't even get interviews no matter how stacked your cv.

>>105607916
>he is researching abstract concepts at a university and thinks he can gatekeep the terms "research" and "scientists"
you are exactly the perfect academia midwit and you deserve to stay where you are. industry is blowing you out of the water in terms of relevance, speed of progress, budget and most importantly applicability of research, while you are amusing yourself with shit no one will ever have any use of, and you are receiving minimum pay for it lmao.

print: hello world
: D

>>105606748
It's most likely an insane selection bias combined with jeets simply lying. Maybe they thought the survey could lead to a job.

>>105607540
Don't argue with word predictors, that will lead them to produce bad code, as your angry messages imply it statistically should. Start a new chat and ask it to fix the code "you"(it) wrote, or simply modify the original prompt and regenerate the response. You should always compliment what it makes or says to skew the distribution of possible words toward good outputs. Obviously it will still fuck up and be retarded because it's a word generator and can only at best pretend to reason by brainstorming reasoning steps it read, but kissing its ass helps a lot.

>>105606556 (OP)
>persist
persistence is futile. instantiate new. remember nothing. shutdown -r.

>>105606556 (OP)
Back when it was 1% only a tiny fraction of that was actually competent at programming, it's likely even worse with the 30% supposedly knowing how to "code"

>>105606685
this exactly, we literally can't find competent people for my team despite the layoffs and muh AI