>4 billion years and molexules spontenaously arranged themselves into self replicating bits
Who believes this

>>106018823 (OP)
I do.

>>106018827
Explain how molecules randomly decided to form self replicating bits

>>106018840
Those that didn't just stopped existing.

>>106018840
trial&error

>>106018823 (OP)
Hey buddy are you lost? /g/ is for people who don't understand technology. Your thread about not understanding biology belongs on >>>/sci/

>>106018840
I can't. Randomness doesn't exist and everything is a reaction to an action. Hence the big bang didn't happen in the way scientists say it did either.

>>106018840
it's not self replicating and not deciding anything retard it's converting random shit into parts of own body like oxygen turning your pc into rust

>>106018888
What trial? They're literally inert molecules. You're saying just bumping those together at random for 4 billion years creates your hot neighbour?

>>106018823 (OP)
He could give her head while she just stands

>>106018840
Do you not understand how parallel the entire process was?

>>106018823 (OP)
Well it's simple.
If they would NOT have done this, they wouldn't still exist.
Only the self-replicating endure.

>>106018901
>Randomness doesn't exist
>Randomness
>Something unpredictable
we can't even predict weather lmao and it's more important than some quantum physics shit

>>106018940
weather isn't random, we just don't know how to predict it properly yet.

>>106018823 (OP)
Abiogenese is a studied field
Lipids like to form bubbles die to their charge, for one

>>106018840
>decided
This nigga thinks evolution is an agent

>>106018823 (OP)
Consider the absurdity of holding those 2 statements as true
>Mankind needs dedicated research, technology, funding, planning, etc to understand DNA
>The cell knows how to interpret DNA without guidance
Current state of modern basedbeans

>>106018930
Go write a molecular simulation where you bump molecules at each other for 4 billion years and see what happens. Let me know when that process randomly and out of nowhere creates mushrooms, pterodactyls or creatures that masturbate at night. Good luck

>>106018823 (OP)
So what's your theory?

>>106018977
God.

>>106018988
What's God?
Did you come up to that yourself or from a jewish book?

>>106018977
Intelligent design and mind as ground of being. Also explains things like placebo, qualia and psychedelics

>>106018988
This is not entirely far-fetched by the way if you take "God" in the broadest sense of the word, something has to have triggered the big bang for everything to follow up to that.

>>106018888
checked kek

>>106018988
Meds.

>>106018914
i gave a immortal monkey unbreakable infinite typewriter and now im waiting 4 billion years till it will type entire War and Peace(3kk symbols of cyrillic) and if monkey will type one symbol every second it will have only 126144000000000 symbols to type, so only 1 monkey have 42048000 attempts to write War and Peace

humanity already knows 24 planets that could have life in radius of 1000 light years which is not even 1% of entire Milky Way and there is way more galaxies that Milky Way

if all of these monkeys failed typing War and Peace you couldn't typing your nonsense right now

>>106018999
>a magical explosion that created all information in the universe from which before there was nothing, not even time
or
>an enteral entity exiting beyond the four dimensions that triggered the creation of the living universe (simulation, God, or otherwise)
honestly both seem like utter bullshit to me. My opinion is that we just do not know at this moment.

>>106018823 (OP)
That woman is 10'6

4 billion years is a really long time

>>106019031
hello Ivan

npcs and unenlightened believe this.

>>106019036
It could have taken a trillion years and nothing should have realistically happened without external triggers.

>>106019041
its weird how the most well studied biologists believe in intelligent design, just like what all the ancient texts have been saying

>>106018823 (OP)
Lol she got the ick just look at her

The ones that didn't spontaneously arrange into self replication didn't get very far

>>106019033
God is everything, nothing, ultimate will, pure abstraction.
The concept does not advance understanding, it soothes existential dread which I guess is one function and gives an ultimate authority to golems.

It's "magical" because it's not metaphysical dogma but a /provisional/ model supported by our most advanced theories in physics.

why the fuck did you make this thread on /g/

>>106019037
hello, i'm getting paid for making posts and spreading misinformation on this site by gazprom
do you?

>>106019053
Nice appeal to authority, can you quote Einstein again about God not playing dice? While he himself didn't really believe in it, just like every rando spouts OMG while not giving two shits.

>>106019048
>it could have taken a trillion years
>could
but it only took 4 billion years

>>106018914
Emergent properties? From basic rules can emmerge extremely complexe systems.
I thought the cellular automata meme was up /g/'s alley, I guess not on nu/g/

>>106019073
/g/ is for god

>>106019096
because something stepped in and "pushed a button" to create. random doesn't exist in nature. without some external thing, nothing would have happened in those 4 billion or even trillion years.

>>106018999
Why do you so much faith in the eternity of the laws of physics? What makes you think they can sustain themselves? What observations around you lead you to believe that the universe is self-sustaining? Every observation points to interdependability, which makes your faith in its capacity to sustain itself quite ludicrous.

Also another point you will have to answer to, which is thw fact that we are creatures that can understand the world we live in. Why should it be that the universe is intelligible to us, as it is not the case for other creatures. If you want to ascribe it to luck, or any other synonym, then you are free to do so, but we both know you know that's absurd.

And if you feel that I have offended ylu by calling your position absurd, then one has to double down on the fact that only in a world that makes sense can the absurd be deciphered.

Your world has no meaning, yet these words do. How do you explain this? How does a meaningless universe contain meaning within it?

It would make more sense to me if entropy didnt exist.
If everything naturally exists in a constant decay until nothingness, then how could you get a whole lot of somethingness billions of years after the big bang?

>>106018914
Molecules aren't inert. The universe prefers to maximise entropy and minimise energy. Living beings are basically machines that consume energy and raise entropy.

>>106019139
Living beings lower entropy.

>>106018823 (OP)
>4 billion years
>spontaneously
That's not how that word works in the slightest.

>>106019083
i don't know what you're talking about so you should just quote it

>>106019142
In a closed system like the universe it's impossible to lower entropy. If you lower entropy on a local scale, like your body being neat and organised to do stuff for you, keeping that local system organised has to take a lot of energy that in turn raises the entropy outside of the local system.

>>106019142
lol

>>106019111
>random doesn't exist in nature
evolution and life is not random, and random exists in nature google miller-urey experiment, quantum physics and also what is natural selection.

All these science worshippers are among the lowest of creatures, because they, in essence, believe in the omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence of nothingness. This is their idol, but they will sugarcoat it and obfuscate their reality with pretencious arrogance.

they dont replicate
molecules incite the creation of other molecules which themselves group together to create more complex structures
take a chemistry class

The presence of the four fundamental forces probably helped.

>>106018946
Abiogenesis has yet to bring solid experimental evidence of their claims though.
>>106019036
Except the last universal common ancestor should have appeared 3.9 billion years ago. Even assuming that the earth had liquid water on day 1 (it didn't), that leaves you at most 600 milion years to develop life.

>>106018823 (OP)
God I wish that was me

>>106019225
>DNA doesn't replicate
Quick, someone call the retard patrol

>>106018940
try to wrap your head around the concept of laplace's demon

>>106019247
>DNA doesn't replicate
Correct, you need DNA polymerase for that process to occur

>>106019278
someone has been watching some lex fridman recently

>>106018840
I can't, I'm not a scientist. I just believe in it.

>>106018823 (OP)
i was an atheist before i took coursework in cellular/molecular genetics. now i think there is a premise for the existence of god. yes, yes, 4 billion years of evolution is a long time, but it all seems so implausibly perfect.

>>106019139
The universe doesn't prefer shit, it has a few very simple evolution laws and just follows those. Minimizing entropy is an emergent behavior.
>minimize energy
>consume energy
I guess you meant "free energy" or something like that? But that's just an embarrassing thing to say.

>>106019303
There's nothing perfect about this world. Look up indian people on google if you don't believe me.

>>106019333
Lol

The best Abiogenesis has produced so far is some very tenuous "maybe it could happen this way if all stars align and if I didn't have breakfast this morning". The problem with anything they describe is that it has such low odds of happening even over billions of years that it brings back intelligent design straight into the mix.

>>106019333
Indians are here as an illustration of what hell may look like and why you should seek salvation.

>>106019301
>nooo you can't believe something with no proof! btw i'm posting this to shame people who don't believe in my thing with no proof!

really though he gave his game away by using the word "believes" in op, evolution isn't a belief, it's a theory

>>106019347
Any action you perform underlies a belief system. There is a belief system underliying western sooience which is materialism. Nothing outside the measurable exists. You cannot deviate from this belief, otherwise you will be labeled an apostate. It is a church, with its own garments and hierarchy.

>>106019391
that's one way to confirm what i said

this random anon that's 99% the text spewed out by a delve trokesvka model for sure knows how the bigbang happened and how the universe works

>t. trokesvka model

>>106018823 (OP)
The current reality model, laws, logic allow this. It's a shitton of things doing shitton of random shit getting a shitton of shitty results which ocassionally ends in a shitton of things absorbing other things, getting more complex and getting more of a shitton of random shit to randomly do, all till life's there and it snowballs like a shitty cancer it is.
I question the "truth" of existence. There is no objective truth, so everything a human understands, an animal senses, a cell consumes, a moleculae interacts with, a nuclea makes and breaks ties with, etc, the objects, what they know, their place and their reality, fucking everything may be a hogwash and a delusion. Or it may be true. Who knows?
I just don't bother to think too deeply on it. Not even because of a limited monkey brain, I'm just don't want to. I can't even say "God" is here, for as much as it can be true, it can be false, and for every single time there is God, it may turn out to be a jerkass with a hard on jihad who'll hate my guts on a principle for even thinking as I do, or it may be actually good and thus able to understand my sins and explain the truth. Or I err regardless.
I don't know, man! Thus, I doubt even the reality itself.

>>106019440
>life can be bruteforced from minerals
Find Jesus but unironically

>>106019440
>There is no objective truth
If that's true you're wrong
If that's false you're wrong

>>106019142
are you retarded? every single action we take generates heat and increases entropy. even just by thinking you increase entropy.

>>106019164
>closed system like the universe it's impossible to lower entropy
then explain black holes

Life aint real, man.
We're all just NPC.

>>106019343
>it has such low odds of happening
So what? It's not like they're claiming that life springs out of nothing all the time repeatedly. If an event just happened one time in the past, you can't really use that to argue that well, the conditions must have been such that it had at least X% chance of happening. That doesn't make any sense. Especially if the fact that you're sitting here doing these calculations is only possible as a consequence of that event.

>>106019507
Are you dumb?

Entropy is a measure of chaos. Living beings literally lower chaos by creating structure in a world that otherwise tends to chaos. What the fuck do you think the entropy of a coffee table is? Or your computer? There's a reason why those things don't just spawn in nature out of nothing. Living beings are literally the only thing in the universe that goes against decay.

>>106019391
Materialism is simply the most rational system we have brainlet. Go ahead and prove that something without evidence exists and you can prove materalism wrong. You don't believe in Unicorns despite a total lack of evidence for them, do you?

>>106018823 (OP)
SNIIIFFFF

>>106019033
>>a magical explosion that created all information in the universe from which before there was nothing, not even time
why do retards keep spouting this? the big bang is not the beginning of time. in fact it occurs after the inflationary epoch. there is no beginning of time anyway. it's a retarded statement. at best you can claim there was a planck epoch, but you can't extrapolate anything about what happened there because we can't mimic the energy scales.

>>106019347
Evolution is an observed fact

>>106019532
Entropy of a closed system never decreases, genius. Living things create low entropy states within themselves but increase entropy outside of themselves. This should be obvious even if you knew nothing but the second law.
Entropy is reddit tier science anyway, you shouldn't be thinking about these things at all.

>>106019532
>Living beings literally lower chaos by creating structure
dude you're a moron. we consume that same structure for sustenance, thereby increasing entropy in total because of how much energy is spent obtaining subsistence and digestion.

how do you not grasp this? are you seriously just looking at life in a vacuum like it doesn't interact with the environment? use your brain please.

>>106019564
>>106019575
Total entropy of the universe increases but locally living things decrease it. Stop making this about semantics, it's obvious that a rock in space can't lower any local entropy, only increase it. But a beaver can build a dam.

>>106019164
Organisation does not neccesary raise entropy outside of the system anon, idk why you think this

>>106019558
wrong.

Now I don't want to sound like a "pick-me"
But all this "haha Science BTFO, checkmate atheists" shit is cringe as fuck, this coming from a Christian, myself.
And this modern anti-science attitude is distinctly amerimutt bullshit.
Many of science's greatest minds were spiritual people, people of faith, even prominent church figures themselves. (Sir William of Ockham['the razor guy'] i.e. literal fucking grandfather of modern epistemology to name one)
The church perpetuated mass literacy in the west to make many key scientific advances possible in the first place. Only for a bunch of fat walmart sharting goblins to come make threads like this.

Maybe it wasn't spontaneous at all, maybe there are fields of sorts akin to the Platonic forms conceptually that dictate those trajectories.
If life, consciousness, and language are primary, then you don't need to account for them after the fact; life is just adapting to what already exists and transcends matter.
Evolution is maximizing joy and happiness out of consciousness, and I find it so comfy that in evolution, co-operation is so common, and organisms that choose that not only statistically survive better, but they THRIVE, tells you something about the ground of all being.

>>106019631
According to a book-length study of the beliefs and characteristics of Nobel Laureates, 297 overall only 10.5% described themselves as ‘atheist, agnostic, freethinker or otherwise nonreligious at some point in their lives? What is striking, however, is that while the figure reaches as high as 35% for Laureates in literature, the figures for science are 8.9% in physiology/medicine, 7.1% in chemistry, and 4.7% in physics. Since Nobel prizes are a twentieth- century invention, that means that, as far as we know, 95.3% of the most acclaimed physicists of the twentieth and twenty-first centuries were consistent theists – still more striking when one realises that agnostics and ‘freethinkers’ counted, for the purposes of this exercise, as non-believers.”

– Ian McGilchrist, The Matter with Things, referencing statistics from Shalev B, 100 Years of Nobel Prizes

>>106019600
>don't argue semantics
>erm locally its actually decreasing
just shut up lol. also that's not even true considering the sheer amount of energy we consume through the power grid and driving the world economy. pick your battles better next time.

>>106019631
Truth nuke. It's really sad to see stupid mutts push this "you're not a real Christian if you're not retarded" shit and the world falling for it.

>I don't believe in God, that's made up nonsense!
>But wouldn't it be cool if we actually lived in a computer simulation? it would explain a lot!

>>106018823 (OP)
It's a framework, people, who have an emotional misslink with the concept of omnipotence, have mistaken for a scientific theory.
And for other copers,
Yes, back in the day we used to reserve this term "theories" for frameworks that have been proven by prospective investigation.
The fact that you have been fucked in the anus as a 4 year old and now can't cope with your repressed homosexuality doesn't replace it.

>>106019661

How many times must we go over this? I tire of your repeated attempts to understand that which could never be understood by such a being as you. Everything is on repeat but you don't realize it, every cycle is a clean slate but you always do the same thing.
I could tell you to wait for the heat death of the universe and eventual collapse back into the singularity to prove it, but the timescale for such an event would boggle your tiny carbon based brain.

Think of the universe as Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania and you are Phil. Everyday is a new cycle, but it will always be the same. Same people, same things, same actions and the same outcome.

You will ask, "But how do I change the outcome?"

You don't, you are a powerless minuscule being in a grand orchestra performed by the mighty and the wise.

Your hopes, dreams, aspirations and everything that makes you "you", amount to absolutely nothing.

Everything is, was, and will be again, just space dust floating in a endless void.

>>106018969
No problem, I'll also simulate it using approximately 10^80 atoms which is a rough estimate for the size of our known universe (that's 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000).

Check back in with me in 4billion years and I'll let you know how it turned out. And no, it's not possible to "speed up" the simulation, time is relative.

>>106018840
never heard of cellular automata? nobody designed all the life forms that emerge in cgl, but they reliably form from chaotic initial states
the universe has a lot of things in it, in a lot of different states

>>106019631
>>106019641
>>106019651
yeah, because the actual real world around us clearly displays the glory of God in everything that He's made. whether people believe it or not is more a problem of them refusing to acknowledge it. The ideas people come up with to try and explain things while trying to specifically exclude God require more blind faith than just believing in God.

>>106018840
Friction.

>>106018823 (OP)
It's not a matter of belief, dipshit. Fucking trollfarm cocksucker, go back to stupefying grandmas on facebook. Or join the SVO and spill your guts for our entertainment, AIDS-ridden mongol rape baby piece of shit.

>>106019610
It literally is, you can see bacteria evolve in real time because they reproduce so fast. Humanity has also bred entiere species of mammals or plants to fit their needs over the millenias.

Should I blame God or evolution for my need to fuck cute feet?

>>106018940
"Zoom out" and it's all a big fractal

>>106019515
>Implying black holes lower entropy or are inherently low entropy

Do you even have a bare bones basic grasp of what black holes are?

>>106019601
The universe wants to be random, hense it favoring entropy. Coercing or forcing systems to be ordered (in comparison to the exterior local systems, ie the surrounding air you're in or the weather outside) takes energy and work to create and maintain. You, being alive, causes both your internal entropy to increase but it also increases the entropy of anything outside of you, just to a much lesser degree. I'm writing this text via voice to text and even that is raising the entropy of the entire room by a lot. Otherwise the dude across the room but not able to hear me talking. If internal closed systems like human bodies did not raise intricate of exterior systems like you imply, things like sound wouldn't be possible