Thread 106232765

I'm moving into a new apartment soon. Is it a good idea to future-proof all rooms with proper fiber optic outlets right now when it's still unfurnished, or should I stick to normal cat 8 ethernet for compatibility?

>>106232765 (OP)
Are you planing to stream 20k content from your 50PiB NAS?

>>106233182
It's called future proofing.

>>106233203
What future?

>>106232765 (OP)
How do you plan on connecting any devices to your fiber optic lines?

>>106232765 (OP)
The only issue is the cost of the equipment to actually use fiber optic outlets. SFP+ is quite expensive compared to regular old ethernet over copper.
If you go for fiber optics, lay single mode fiber instead of multi mode fiber, it's future proof and supports higher bandwidths.

>>106233232
The one I'm spending with your mother in my unfurnished apartment.

>>106233248
>If you go for fiber optics, lay single mode fiber instead of multi mode fiber, it's future proof and supports higher bandwidth
Difference?

>>106233261
thicker terminals

>>106233245
10 seconds google gave me this

>>106233261
The main difference is that single mode uses a single light path whereas multi mode uses multiple light paths. The single light path approach allows for higher bandwidths over longer distances. The multiple light path approach introduces signal distortion over distances which limits the bandwidth.

Realistically speaking, either is fine for home use giving the bandwidth of even multi mode is more than enough. However the main cost factor isn't the cable itself, it's the equipment or the laying of the cables into the walls and setting up outlets if you pay someone to do that and don't diy it. Given that multi-mode also requires something like SFP+, you might as well just go for single mode as prices were similar last I've checked.

Btw don't bother with splicing fiber optics yourself, it's not worth it, maybe only if you rent the expensive splicing device. You can buy fiber optic patch cables and outlets that don't need splicing, it's plug and play, just buy a patch cable at a fitting length or slightly longer and just loop (15cm+ loops for single mode) any excess cable length inside the wall.

I've looked into this because I've been considering it for my house but I've put it on hold for now.

>>106233422
>don't bother with splicing fiber optics yourself
Why not? How difficult can it be, really?

>>106233533
You need specialized equipment to do it properly. It's easier to just buy patch cables at suitable lengths and outlets that don't require splicing.

cat 8 ethernet can already max out the I/O capabilities of a nvme ssd
no point in using fiberoptic bullshit

>>106232765 (OP)
>fiber
You'll need active ethernet converters at each endpoint, almost everything runs on RJ45 ethernet. Not worth it.

>cat 8
Have you seen the thickness of an actual cat 8 cable? It's a meme. You don't need more than cat 6A.
Go for cat 6A STP or FSTP if you plan to ground it, otherwise go for cat 6A UTP.
Do not get shielded cables and then not ground it, it will amplify signal noise. Ungrounded shield will act as an antenna and you'll get a noisy signal, noise will get some ethernet packets dropped thus will affect the data rate on the cable.

>>106233248
SFP is actually cheaper on an industrial scale, especially for long distances, but for home wiring it's very expensive, like 5 times more expensive.

>>106232765 (OP)
I went OM (got a mixture of 1 and 3 now) a few years ago, and never looked back.
It's got the side benefit that if any low IQ starts playing with your infra, their retinae are quietly (but effectively) punished for their stupidity.

>>106233702
Brainlets thinking they're high IQ is cringe.

>>106233203
You fucking sperg

This thread is giving me a headache.
>hurr run single mode
Fuck no. OS is meant for multiple-kilometre runs, the optics cost a fortune, their lasers are are powerful enough to turn your eye sockets into smouldering craters, and that power is pulled from your switch (and ultimately the wall). Yet you can run 25GBASE-SR over the cheapest, nastiest OM1 for a dozen or more metres with no problems.
>durr it costs multiple times what copper does
What a flaming crock of shit. As I said, 25GBASE-SR will run over OM1, which is barely more expensive per metre than good-quality Cat6a.
>drool but u need media transceivers everywhere
Any desktop will accept a second-hand Mellanox MCX3* or 4* off egay for pocket change after your 10GbE or 25GbE switch. Second hand optics are similarly cheap, and last forever if treated well - I have 1000BASE-SX trannies that are older than most ni/g/gers and work perfectly.
DACs are also an option, and cheap until you get to ridiculous lengths (but you obviously don't want to thread these through your walls).
Laptops and anything smaller are a lost cause. But they do have wi-fi, which is increasingly a better option than the onboard gigashit copper thanks to 11be, and even advanced forms of 11ax.

>>106233972
This. CAT6A and is fine and can cap 10Gbit/s.

>>106234242
>Laptops and anything smaller are a lost cause.
Not with thunderbolt/USB4. You can always get a enclosure for a PCIe card.
Stupidly expensive tho because anything TB has a Mac tax.

>>106232765 (OP)
CAT7/8 doesn't really exist in practice.

No one has ever made a 40gbps ethernet PHY. It's a paper specification that never got traction and doesn't exist as a real product you can buy.

CAT6a is all you should spend your money on.

>>106234242
>This thread is giving me a headache.
>I have 1000BASE-SX trannies that are older than most ni/g/gers

Your post is giving me a headache.

>>106234876
I'm sorry you had to look something up on Google.
To be fair thoverbeit, maybe you shouldn't go into a thread about fibre-optic networking if you don't know a least a little bit of the jargon.

>>106232765 (OP)
do you expect or need more than 10Gbit/s and less than 10 ms of latency?
No? then shut the fuck up

>>106234900
Last mile latency doesn't really get affected by copper vs fiber.

Your LAN latency should be less than 1ms regardless of if you're using ethernet or fiber.

>>106233203
>ww3 around the corner
>mass layoffs due to AI automation
>economic crisis
>increase in authoritarianism

yea, focus on that fiber optics in your shitty appartment to "future proof" it for future that newer will exist, that will give you some seemingly control over your own life

>>106234995
That's referring to ISP last mile, I'm referring to your LAN in your house.

>>106234999
why even focus on the LAN then, if there is no difference between latencies

>>106234995
>>106234999
And here is your AI confirming the same

>>106235008
I have no idea why OP would focus on a fiber LAN when there is no obvious benefit to him.

>>106232765 (OP)
I would only consider fiber if:
1. you have >10Gbps need, and cat6a is not an option
2. you're running >100m/300ft cables, to mitigate retransmission
That's pretty much it. Point 1 sure, go ahead, but since it is an apartment, you're never running into point 2, unless your cable runs are horribly planned. If you must use fiber, I would mix the two: Fiber for longer runs/high bandwidth appliances (NAS, servers, etc) and copper CAT6a for everything else.

>>106234995
>>106234999
>>106235008
>>106235014
Well, it IS the benefit of fibre: that hanging it over your mains power cables doesn't interfere with it.
I would imagine this would be a fairly large consideration for your average /g/tard: they have to live in rentprisons that they can't modify without a landlord of some type (mother, criminal, government) murdering them.

>>106233702
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_medium
Absolutely not, Mr. Dunning.
Rather midwits are "use wifi, what can go wrong?"
And dimwits are "I don't want no 5G magnet" = no wi-fi.

>>106232765 (OP)
>normal cat 8
Lmao there is nothing "normal" about CAT8, nothing uses it.

And I mean literally nothing, not even datacenters.

>>106235084
CAT6a is shielded and works just fine running alongside power cables. Unless it's super high power draw 480V lines or something.

>>106235106
No it doesn't, especially since everyone went to fluorescent lights and so their mains are now bouncing around like mad.
You used to have to drape your copper cables directly over a fluorescent fitting to have these problems - indeed, I used to have to diagnose these sorts of issues when I was in IT.
Now it's everywhere - and gigabit/2.5Gb/5Gb only makes it worse than it used to be. There's a reason a lot of midwits take the path of least resistance and use wi-fi, even on desktop machines, these days.

>>106235134
You're delusional, on normal 120v lines running through your house you're NEVER going to run into EMI issues with shielded CAT6a.
Unshielded might be a bit more problematic, but even then just separate the ethernet from the power line by 8-12 inches and it's not a problem.

If you do have to cross over the power runs, do so at a 90 degree angle and don't just run them parallel stacked on top of each other.

And again with shielded CAT6a this is barely even worth considering.

>>106235154
>normal
>120v
Opinion discarded. Voltletism is hardly "normal", just as not being able to read - while also common in the third-world - isn't normal.

>>106235184
Anon, this is an American website, during American waking hours, neck yourself or shut the fuck up.

>>106232765 (OP)
Fiber is not a big fan of multiple 90° runs.
And I'm guessing your apartment has a few 90 degrees angles.

>>106235217
Bend insensitive fiber exists, but even so OP should just run CAT6a and be done with it.

>>106235205
>the third-world voltlet chucks his little tantrum
Who invented web sites, may I ask?

>>106232765 (OP)
Fiber requires very expensive splicing gear, or precisely premeasured run lengths so you can purchase fiber cable in the exact length you need for where it's going. Requires a lot of preplanning and accurate measuring.

Unless you plan to make installing fiber a career, buying decent splicing gear is too expensive.

>>106235237
4chan is an American website, used by a majority American audience.

Feel free to seethe more about it though I'm sure it'll totally validate your retarded fiber LAN argument.

>>106235254
>im too embarrassed to answer the question
If only you'd realised this before calling 120 volts "normal".

>>106235280
>he still can't conextualize his argument around the fact this website is majority American
Wewlad, I'd feel embarrassed if I was you, but I think you're too autistic for that feeling to manifest.

There's no 120V running through CAT8 nor FIBER so shut it, both of you.

>>106235426
He's talking about being a lazy cunt running ethernet directly next to your power lines in your wall.

It's easily solved by not running your ethernet and power lines right on top of each other.

>>106235482
Pretty much. And if you HAVE to (Eg: concrete walls on finished project, aka not running new conduit because it is an ordeal) use SFTP or something similar with proper shielding to avoid interference.
Even then, I doubt the difference would be huge...

>>106233383
Is this price worth the extra speed to you?

>>106235863
>some designed exclusively for vendor lock-in 80km non-lr compliant speshul snowflake tranny
Or get 1000BASE-SX trannies for a quid a throw.

>>106235983
If you're looking for 1000base you might as well go with CAT6

>>106235983
Only retards use fiber for a home LAN

>>106236034
I'm not looking for 1000BASE. I was illustrating what a disingenuous fuck >>106235863 was being.

>>106236039
Sorry you're poor and stuck at 2.5GbE as a result.

I heard 10G ETH gets really hot and requires active cooling or at least air conditioning. Is this true?

>>106236316
I have 10GbE but whatever helps you cope I guess.

futureproofing is fat conduits

>>106236346
Older 10GbE yes, the newest stuff, no.

Wait another year or two and the new low power realtek 10GbE PHYs will take over the market.

They should be suitable for passive cooling without a heat sink.

>>106236346
Yep, and of course drags tons of power in the process. I've seen 10GBASE-T trannies that are simply too hot to touch.
Take >>106236358, who think this makes him cool (let's assume he's not lying about having 10GBASE-T - it's way more likely he's using NBASE-T though) - for the same power budget on optical, you could have 50-100GbE.

>>106236346
Yes. I bought a switch that has 2x10Gb ports recently.
Hotter than the surface of the sun, and I am in regret. Avoid all passive cooled 10Gb ethernet shit.

I love my poorfag 10g setup

>>106233261
single mode fibre is very thin glass thus very expensive, multi mode is thick plastic thus very cheap fibre

>>106236419
Yall are paranoid

>>106236419
Only for the next few months, realtek's latest 10GbE shit is 2W or less per port, which is totally fine for passively cooled operation.

The lowest power 10GbE before this was like 4.5W per port.

>>106236434
Nah anon, SM is actually cheaper per metre than MM. Thing is, you run SM for literal kilometres (to a building on the other side of a campus etc).
Further, plastic core fibre is quite rare: the attenuation on them is terrible, often rendering them useless beyond a few metres, and a lot of optics don't work (properly - there are often conditioning patch cables to help) with them. If you buy an OM1 cable off EBay, it's almost certainly glass core.

>>106234917
the world's always been in deep shit
people have been crying "it's the end times" since before JC
and yet nothing ever happens

>>106232765 (OP)
>apartment
who cares if you don't own the property

>>106236419
>Hotter than the surface of the sun
Let's not exaggerate. Get a noctua fan and it'll be fine.

>>106233533
>>don't bother with splicing fiber optics yourself
>Why not? How difficult can it be, really?
I regularly make and repair single mode 9/125 fiber optic cables
This is the tactical shit with kevlar and poly coatings
The terminals required for the quick disconnects are epoxy only due to size
Shit takes about an hour per pair of terminals to cut, epoxy, polish, assemble
Most just use premade splice terminals and a $9000 fusion splicer
Takes 30 seconds

>>106237052
To be fair, SM is a fuckton harder to work on than MM.
The /g/ zoomers are just LARPing that their houses are big enough, or that their nip cartoon streams need the bandwidth, that SM can work for them - as they're prone to doing.

>>106237142
Not gonna lie, I am looking at rerunnin my house
Wanna go to 25 gig switch connects
100 gig backbone
It's so cheap since I know what does work, it's retarded
$8 SFP+ modules
Cable is $1 a foot
Switches are the most expensive, but MikroTik ftw

>>106237236
>25 gig
>100 gig
>SFP+
Um. Anon...

>>106232765 (OP)
Why would you upgrade a property that another, more ACTUAL, person owns? You realize you're not getting a break on your rent right?

>>106237408
Not OP, but I do it all the time.
It improves my life while I live in the house - I'm not such a... I don't even know WHAT you are, but I'm not lowering my quality of life just to spite my landlord. That sounds just so leftist and Reddit that it makes me wanna puke.

>>106237408
not only that but modifying the property significantly without permission is a solid reason for eviction

>>106237472
So it's 'rightist' and '4chan' to provide material improvements in a rental property and gift them to your landlord? Do you tip when you pay rent?

>>106237408
>>106236823
You DO know it's possible to BUY apartments, right?

>>106237497
>hearing that someone has
>A) the money to improve their living space, and
>B) can afford to give it away when they move away from that space
>is making me rage impotently and shutting down all higher brain function
This is probably the most naked form of viscerally hating people who are better off than you I've seen recently.
As I said: leftist and Reddit.

>>106237508
Even if you buy an apartment you are not necessarily allowed free reign to modify as you wish.

>>106237508
Imagine buying a pod in a diverse city... you could have unfinished brick walls in the hallway leading to your pod, maybe spend some time in the common room drinking some real good hoppy IPAs and watch a streamer play some SNES games on real hardware..

>>106237546
yeah, so leave it to the owner to read and understand the CC&Rs for his building. dumbass.

>>106237539
You type like a jeet lol.

>>106237602
>no im not a poor seething (street)shitlib you are
Classic. Pathetic, but classic.
By the way, I wanted fries with that.

>>106237546
I'm sure OP has thought this through.

>>106237621
I own my own home, I bought it with cash. It's an actual home. I'm shitposing and my wife is out back on her hands and knees weeding the garden, she loves that.

In this house we have copper, fiber is useless inside a dwelling.

>>106237634
None of this is true. Whatever fantasy you need to rationalise your seething about people having more wealth, generosity and comfort than you, is not only not my concern, but I don't actually care. This is your final (You), and you should go back to r/eattherich.

>>106237634
its mostly completely useless just mostly useless. Using sfp/fiber as the backplane between switches, router, maybe a large drive bank can be beneficial, if you setup is large enough to justify it. However, in most cases it would not be. But yes for individual connections in a home it is not worth it.

>>106237634
>I'm shitposing and my wife is out back on her hands and knees

That's nice but we're talking about computer networks?

>>106237508
Actually no it isn't because if the land is occupied by multiple units stacked on top as apartments usually are, it means the best you can hope for is owning a percentage of the land, bricks and mortar. As a result, you do not own the apartment. The only way to own a property is for it to be a house on which you own the land and decent planning rights.

I wouldn't run fiber at home unless you need galvanic isolation or >10GbE. But used 40GbE gear is actually cheaper than 10GbE as it was dead end technology.

>>106232765 (OP)
unless you're a hobbyist that needs it now, no.
future proofing, is 9 out of 10 times a waste, even though it seems a good idea.
by the time you need it, something might have changed to make you early adoption, mute.
costs will have decreased a lot by the time people need it. unless you have a very specific need to have 40gb/100gb, don't.

for backups 10gb is more than enough.
8k or 16k video will have bitrates of maybe a few hundred MB/s. so unless you like to benchmark it the first time you set it up and see a satisfied number, only to never really use it again, go for it.

>>106235184
>>106235154
this shit is hilarious but if only the euroschizo would realize that interference comes from current draw and their 240V lines have only 1/4 the interference of american 120V lines.

>>106238957
And yet, I spent much of the early 2000s mitigating it for companies you've definitely heard of. Made quite a few bob out of it, too.
Noticed it get worse as those horrible mini-CCFL "bulbs" took over from incandescents, but as I'd thankfully exited the industry and entered semi-retirement, it wasn't my problem anymore.
However, I had plenty of money to just go multimode all over the house, so I did that - apparently to the shock and horror of Cat 6a true believers in this thread.

>>106237357
>>25 gig
>>100 gig
>>SFP+
>Um. Anon...
Take 4x SFP+ modules
Do a 360
Walk right back out
Honestly, I don't want faggots knowing 100 gig QSFP cards and DAC cables are cheaper than most add in quad gigabit cards
Don't forget the cooling!
Cooling fast cards requires a server!
You don't want them, stick to 2.5 gig

>>106239192
>100 gig QSFP
Noice.
>DAC cables are cheaper
Alas, that cat's already out of the bag.

>>106236399
>it's way more likely he's using NBASE-T though
Nope, it's SFP+ with a 10GbE module

>>106239241
>Alas, that cat's already out of the bag.
false, the cat IS the bag

>>106237690
>None of this is true.
It is, I have an actual basement lair, I'm shit posting from it now.

>Whatever fantasy you need to rationalise your seething about people having more wealth, generosity and comfort than you
Some kind of gay supposedly future proof port in the wall makes you into all these things?

>is not only not my concern, but I don't actually care. This is your final (You), and you should go back to r/eattherich.
You wouldn't have replied if I didn't get under your brown skin.

>>106237694
Listen there is no reason to suppose that the average home owner will need some kind of hypercube crossbar switching network to support their HD porn habit.

>>106237727
I do the computer shit and watch her through my window and it sometimes leads to sexy situations.

>>106232765 (OP)
Conduit makes this a nonissue

>>106233624
25GBASE-T and 40GBASE-T hardware is non-existent. And consumes way more power.

>>106232765 (OP)
>apartment cuck
future proof your cuckbox by buying a house lmao

>>106237052
Fusion splicers are less than $1000 now. This isn’t 1997 anymore. Still, good point. Even polishing connectors isn’t that hard after you get the hang of it. I prefer hot melts.

>>106232765 (OP)
The future is not what it used to be.

>>106233203
>>106232765 (OP)
its called wasting money, you faggot

>>106235084
Power cables generally don't interfere with Ethernet because they're not supposed to be carrying frequencies >>100Hz. Bundles of other copper Ethernet wires interfere with copper Ethernet.

>>106242309
This. You can have conduit put in since the walls aren't finished and just pull through whatever future bullshit cable you have when you need it.

>>106233203
>future proofing an apartment
Lmao. I'm sure your landlord will thank you for the free upgrades

>>106233232
>>106234215
>>106234917
>>106243168
>>106243969
mad cuz they're fucking poor lmao

>>106243969
Seriously, do none of you niggers care about the place you live? You're gonna live in a house/apartment probably for years. Why not spend money for comfort, if you can afford it? I understand if it is only for a while (let's say 6 months or so) but come on.

>>106243413
Not always an option. House that I live now for 8 years or so have concrete walls. I would need to break many walls, conduit them and mortar them shut. Still, if it is unfinished, best option by far and, on drywalls, It's easy as fuck. I've done for both, and drywalls are a piece of cake.
Don't ever tell anyone that "muh paper walls" in burgerland are silly. They're amazing to work with.

>>106247105
>muh paper walls
So many levels of europoors seething about things they can't afford.

If you told them Americans aren't allowed to have this green superscience material called OSB, they'd plaster the outside of their commieblock apartments with it.

>>106247642
They're cheaper than mortar and brick walls though? Unless you add proper insulation, but even then, doing a properly insulated brick wall is more expensive than drywall.
I wish it was the norm here. Brick walls are a bitch to worth with. I can only find drywall in either very new buildings or commercial settings.

>>106247683
The average europoster is renting a 400-800sqft concrete box with visible water damage.
>at least i dont live in a stick house

>>106247105
>Why not spend money for comfort
You do that when you have a permanent place.
Not trying to knock you but the younger generations spend way too much indulging in every single comfort their budget allows, then complain they are flat broke and can't plan for a future

If you have the spare cash and you're absolutely flush then enjoy yourself, just don't let it fuck with future plans.

A good wireless setup using Wifi7 would be better but this is a troll thread

>>106232765 (OP)
>>106233203
>Future proofing
>Apartment
ISHYGDDT

>>106247747
Fair, and good advice. I've renovated some of the house I'm renting right now, but it was mostly for the family members that also live with me, and most of those were for repairs. I got most of the money out of the rent though, and some of it we went 50/50 with the landlord. It's useful having one that knows that the house wasn't on a livable state when we moved on and understands repairs, so there's that as well.

>>106247739
Grim. My current house is 200 sqm/2150 sqft and it feels small sometimes.

>>106247759
I mean, at least there is SOME use for it. I'm not sure about fiber on a fucking apartment, but there is a reason if you have a homelab and need >10Gbps speeds. Still, you could just plug two cables, because if you're dealing with that kind of bandwidth, you'll probably have more than one network port to connect to your servers, and then just join them together for higher throughput.

>>106233248
>SFP+ is quite expensive compared to regular old ethernet over copper.

If you go for 10GbE then copper may as well not exist. Yeah you can get some RJ45 port cards but networking equipment is super fucking rare, everything just uses SFP+ ports. Even cheap chink equipment is just 2.5GbE RJ45 plus one in four SFP+ 10GbE ports.
And SFP+ to RJ45 transceivers run super fucking hot. And RJ45 10GbE uses 3-4W per cable.

And no company has any incentive to improve on this whatsoever because enterprise space moved to 25GbE or higher and consumer space is barely entering into 2.5GbE.

OP, if you plan on using anything higher than 2.5GbE ever, then SFP+ is the only sane way to get it done, unfortunately. If you put it in the walls then the fiber itself should be relatively safe from breaking. I'd go for it.

>>106247975
>because enterprise space moved to 25GbE
This is delusional, 25GbE (25GBASE-T) and 40GbE (40GBASE-T) are paper specs with zero hardware, the specification has existed for around 10 years and not a single vendor has EVER showed off a 25GbE NIC at a trade show event, let alone actually released a product to the market.

Beyond that, 10GbE has made a lot of strides lately with the new generation of Realtek PHYs that offer 10GbE at less than 2 watts per port, which is more than low enough power draw for passively cooled NICs (onboard NICs for motherboards, passively cooled switches/routers/etc)

Within a year or two you'll likely see most non-budget motherboards using the new realtek NIC. With routers and switches expected in 2026 as well.

>>106247975
>If you go for 10GbE then copper may as well not exist
In 2 years it'll be the standard on midrange motherboards and upper-middle segment routers. 10G-PON is pretty common now, and normalfags don't want to be fucked with SFP adapters. They already have enough problems with the wifi cable.

>>106232765 (OP)
don't waste your money, 10base2 is all you need

>>106248605
>10G-PON
XGS-PON being the most common flavor (at least in the US).

NG-PON2 is kinda 10G-PON too as it's using 10Gbps per wavelength (but has 4-8 wavelengths available).

I don't think consumers care TOO much about the ONT/Router link though, 10GbE, SFP+, XFP, doesn't really matter. But for client devices, you obviously want ethernet.

>>106248555
Almost kinda hope boards don't come with the realtek right away
>t. Just spend $130 on a thunderbolt 10G NIC

>>106248634
It's also considerably cheaper per port with the new single chip adapters.

>>106235254
>4chan is an American website
owned by a chink, and managed by glowies
>used by a majority American audience
if by American audience you mean the mossad agents spamming every single board everyday then yeah sure

>>106249674
>owned by a chink
nip
>mossad agents spamming every single board
Delusional conspiracytards should stay on their containment board.