Thread 106392649

How would you save this company from bankruptcy?

Remember when they used to be the no.1 CPU manufacturer?

>>106392649 (OP)
start making low budget gpus for third worlders

>>106392649 (OP)
Bring back Optane.

>>106392649 (OP)
Invest in the CPU and GPU business and make competitive products and support open platforms and open APIs. That's all you really need.

>>106392649 (OP)
The Welchified "American" economy is structurally incapable of manufacturing even if it's a high margin product. As such, I'd do the only that can be done in such an environment. Sell off the fabs (even if I have to pay billions to get someone to agree to operate them for the 10 years I need)

>>106392649 (OP)
Continue the course.
Shareholder capitalism is a mistake, line must go up always.

>>106392745
>Bring back Optane.
You sunk the only competitor in the x86 space, how does that feel?

>>106392649 (OP)
Bring back Alpha AXP

>>106392649 (OP)
Laptops are like 70% intel and nobody uses desktop PCs outside of gamers. If you're employed your company is going to buy or lease a laptop for you not a desktop

>>106392649 (OP)
Bankruptcy?
They lead the server and consumer markets

All future ceos must have chip design experience

>>106392649 (OP)
Not my problem

>>106392649 (OP)
Sell it to the American government.

>>106393331
They are hemorhaging revenue and nobody wants to touch them with a ten foot pole. They were incredibly late to the AI boom and are still behind compared to their rivals. TSMC, Nvidia and AMD are eating their lunch in manufacturing. They have had around 20,000 layoffs or more in recent years. Year on year Intel loses more customers in the only markets they have control over to AMD, AMD is gaining 3.1% market share year on year.

It really is a problem. I'm hoping this new guy turns things around because monopolies are bad and Intel still has a ton of potential.

Switch to something other than silicon with the intent of breaking past the 5GHz limit 10 years from now.

>>106392817
Maybe they deserved it.

>>106392841
HP owns that not Intel

>>106392649 (OP)
Not happening. TSMC is going to become a monopoly and a lot of familiar tech companies will disappear in a few years.

A useful rule of thumb is that companies need revenue that's twice the cost of building an advanced fab in order to stay in the Moore’s Law race. Historically, companies that drop below that threshold eventually abandon the pursuit of leading edge capabilities. Both Intel and Samsung Semiconductors have entered that danger zone.

TSMC is raising its prices so wafer prices for TSMC’s upcoming 2nm will be $45,000-$50,000/wafer, considerably ahead of the current $25,000 - $30,000 price. A TSMC price of $50,000 would fundamentally re-order the semiconductor industry. At those prices, only a handful of companies can afford ordering leading-edge products.

Result: at $47,500/wafer Qualcomm’s gross margins would go to zero. These companies will still order chips from TSMC, but they will stay on older nodes much longer. Consumers would notice that new devices offer few improvements over previous generations. Only companies with the richest gross margins could afford to stay at the leading edge, effectively shutting out their competitors. This would be the effective end of Moore’s Law.

>>106392974
>nobody uses desktop PCs outside of gamers.
>bro what are professionals

>>106392649 (OP)
Because you're too focused of employees. Intel is in it now and they know it's coming. They probably have a couple quantum computers capable of zetaflops.

Unless ou believe the n100 is the end all. They have military contracts that none of you now.


I know though

>>106393618
so you're saying intel will drag down the us military with it. not exactly inspiring.

>>106393406
>and nobody wants to touch them with a ten foot pole.
I'm not convinced shareholders will ever get back to Intel unless Intel just stops being Intel.
People really want Intel to go the fabless and limited supply route that AMD is on because fuck everything else but profit.

Dominating the space by having product everywhere and at every price point apparently isn't feasible anymore because you can make a few more bucks per chip if you engage in scarcity tatics.

>>106393888
That would be fine if they had unlimited financing. They don't, so spinning off their foundry business makes the most sense.

>>106393560
TSMC raising wafer prices will just make intel, its products, and its fabs more competitive. AMD dosn't make much money as is. AMD P/E 97.6:1.

>>106394061
The prices on their older products would stay the same, maybe even reduce. They also have a much cheaper currency so there's an automatic 30% discount on everything they produce.

There's just going to be a lot of industry consolidation once Moore's Law stagnates. We're looking at the end stages of that at the foundry level.

Ironically, by cutting off TSMC from China, Trump made sure China will stay in the race for the foreseeable future. So TSMC's only viable competitor would be SMIC.

I don't think /g/ gets intel. Yes intel massivly fucked up because the board of directors is a bunch of shitheads and hired totally inept CEOs, and yes they went woke and to be blunt all of the above nearly drove them out of business.

But what intel does is something quite different from TSMC. They have traditionally focused their manufacturing processes and designs (down to the transistor level) and R&D on giving their own products a competitive edge.

Even now when things are still quite dark for intel you can see the effects. Zen5 is what, 4nm? Intel's 14th gen at 7nm (basically 10nm) is competitive in performance. Why? Its the result of being an IDM (integrated design and manufacturing). They can optimize products down through the entire semiconductor stack.

tbqh - and I realize how silly this must sound - But I think intel's competitors are shitting their pants that intel might actually fix its shit and become competitive again. They have all the pieces. Pat got 18A developed, they have fabs cranking out Xeon 6's (big dies) at their 3nm. They have gpu tech that is reasonably well regarded. They have a novel software compute stack built on sycl/dpc++. As of now, they have 20billion + ~10B from Trump (the us govt), and + 2B from softbank in cash to drive R&D. They have a fab shell in Ohio nearing completion, probably to be used for 14A.

They just have to stop fucking up and put these pieces together. Can they manage to not fuck up? idk.

>>106394192
>that drop from 45nm to 28nm
Brutal.

>>106394192
>once Moore's Law stagnates. We're looking at the end stages of that at the foundry level.

I wish I could find the chart, but a general roadmap for semiconductors - for they entire global industry - goes down to 2A - and iirc that is all still on silicon - and there is known to be a world of semiconductors beyond that (GaAs for example).

Given that the technological roadmap exists, I think that your estimate of moores law ending and converging to only a single fab company can only true in a 'line go up (or down)' kind of world. But that isn't reality. Nation states like Korea, Taiwan, China, and the US cannot afford to loose a critical technological edge. You can see this with the substantial government involvement with Samsung, TSMC, SMIC, and now Intel. Failure is not an option. This isn't going to stop, not for a long time. Some other externality will trigger a halt or a pause, (world war, AGI, ???), not a systemic failure of the semiconductor ecosystem.

>>106392649 (OP)
Build 60000000000000 more fabs in Tel Aviv of course, pretty antisemitic of you to even ask.

>>106394192
>>106394370

As more evidence for the importance of this, and therefore that this isn't going to slow and halt, the Japanese are getting into the 2nm race as a new fab with Rapidus.

https://vlsifacts.com/japanese-chipmaker-rapidus-kicks-off-2nm-test-production-a-bold-step-toward-2027-mass-production/

>>106394231
>They have a fab shell in Ohio nearing completion, probably to be used for 14A.
nonsense.

ohio is delayed till 2030 (if ever). 14a in 2030 is asinine.

>>106394401
Nobody is investing in Israel, Netawhatever brought way too much heat into Israel. Once boomers die off they are fucked.

>>106392649 (OP)
I wouldn't. There are other components I'd prioritize over CPU and GPU production for reasons other than AI/gayming.

>>106392649 (OP)
> build time machine
> go back 10 years ago
> stop all diversity hiring
> fire 90% of the managers and women

>>106394474

I don't think you understand "failure is not an option", and I am pretty sure that the US government wants AGI to be American.

>>106394485
>>106394401
lmao. how the flying fuck are they managing to build fabs there with guaranteed 24/7 sugar rockets instead of fuckin america

>>106394452
that's just ibm's experimental 2nm process. that none of the established fabs bought ibm's experimental process should tell you enough. developing it to actual mass-production is not easy.
remember last time when intel and samsung bought ibm's experimental process but tsmc didn't? ibm's process didn't work out and tsmc got the lead over intel for the first time back then.

>>106394519
Congrats, Intel died in 2024 because they didn't benefit from investments from DEI funds in the 2010s

>>106392649 (OP)
bring back pat, and Live or die by the sword. the current approach is just going to prolong the decline, with no chance of recovery.

>>106394526
the grants from the u.s. government for ohio are no more. intel failed the milestones for the grants. the US government now repurposed to grant's money and used it to get intel stock instead.

>>106394714
why not focus on design like literally every analyst everywhere is saying? nvidia is doing just fine.

>>106394452
japan is the most buckbroken country in the world. they won't do shit.

>>106394731
no defense analyst is saying this. having domestic chip manufacturing is of national security.

>>106394760
tsmc can meet that need better than intel with a us-based foundry

>>106394722
As i understand it the deal between the US govt and intel is being done because benefits both parties. Intel is getting cash now. If intel succeeds the us government will make a mess of money, by doing the deal they encourage intel itself to be successful, and discourage them spinning off their fabs.

The only people that get hurt are the current stock holders that are getting diluted, but otoh the cash infusion arguably will help them succeed - which would be a positive for them.

>>106394782
cannot. that fab is still employing taiwanese nationals. in general, tsmc's knowledge remains in taiwan. so that fab is immediately worthless in case of no more taiwan.

>>106394782
The US government needs to fab chips with absolute security with air tight guarantees the chips are not backdoored. TSMC can't give those kind of assurances.

That's on top of having cutting edge research and manufacturing being done here, and not as a satellite office out of Taiwan.

>>106393560
>Blumph puts a tariff on your fancy smancy 2nm wafer.
>Now it’s like 80k.
>Chip designers just shrug and go to global foundries or whoever and pretend 2nm doesn’t exist.

You’re forgetting the second function of moore’s law.
If the consumer doesn’t want higher performance, they will instead become interested in lower prices, which will shift the market’s battleground to fighting over price.

>>106394808
the usg made no such demands.
intel is still saying they won't develop 14a if there are no outside customers. currently there are none. ohio looks pretty dead.

Hire indians and optimize the profit margins

>>106394897
>>Blumph puts a tariff on your fancy smancy 2nm wafer.
tariffs don't work here. no one is importing wafers into the u.s. to assemble chips. that's done in china or vietnam.

>>106394837
>>106394850
you're implying the plan is to buckbreak taiwan, which effectively hands it over to china.
isn't that worse for national security than having some r&d take place in taiwan?

>>106394897
most of the taiwanese youth is pro-china. even immigrants like jensen huang put out hints that he ultimately wants china to beat the us.
if we put tariffs on taiwan, then they'll stop caring about independence completely and accept a hong kong/macau type arrangement.

>>106394997
no, for national security matters the plan is to have no outside dependencies. china could blockade taiwan and the u.s. would be in a bind.

>>106394927
>the usg made no such demands.
They didn't make it as a 'demand' they made it as a stock option with shares held in escrow.

>>106395034
>accept a hong kong/macau type arrangement
there's no such arrangement.
"one country, two systems" is completely dead after hong kong's national security legislation. there's only one system.

>>106392649 (OP)
WHY would you save Intel?

>>106394997
>you're implying the plan is to buckbreak taiwan,

I'm not making that claim. A lot of chips need to be made globally. TSMC is a great company - and they clearly do great work.

All of MAGA seems to be targeted at maintaining a strong industrial and scientific basis in the US. It may be being sold as jobs - and that isn't unimportant - you do need skills and technicians for the industry and science to happen here. Its just mercantilism by another name - and that is being practiced by everyone else.

I don't see how intel and tsmc and samsung, and smic and rapidus, and ??? cannot all continue together in competition as long as there is demand for cutting edge semiconductors. Governments will maneuver to maintain their own domestic industries in this new more competitive global order that is being built at the end of and from the ashes of globalization.

>>106394974
>>106395034
>t. Retarded chink who doesn’t know how tariffs work.

>>106395053
no outside dependencies is impossible except in some magical world where the rest of the world - really just europe and east asia - are brainless serfs with no agency.
if china makes any moves toward taiwan, just go with the current plan of blowing up tsmc. the broken nest policy.

>>106395092
and taiwanese youth would prefer that to being priced out of their biggest market. it's unlikely japan or europe will come to their rescue either.
so it's either stay rich with china or go poor with america.

>>106395102
i like the name
feels smart
also... the color
it's nice

>>106395172
all of tsmc's primary customers are us based
"mercantilism" with an infinite leverage hack is just buckbreaking

>>106395220
>no outside dependencies is impossible except in some magical world where the rest of the world - really just europe and east asia - are brainless serfs with no agency.
absurd.

mic can already produce most things domestically right now.

>>106395273
you mean only for the mic? the mic isn't using cutting edge nodes anyway.

>>106395261
those are multinational companies, not u.s. companies. multinationals have no allegiance to any country. multinationals will always do what makes them the most money.

>>106395209
it doesn't matter who pays them. the lost business would be devastating. the taiwanese semiconductor industry represents a quarter of its gdp, a third of its stock market, and almost half of its exports.

>>106394941
Haven't they already?

>>106395261
>tsmc_customers.jpg
misleading.
those percentages do not add up to anywhere near 100%.

>>106395261

As the lever that Trump likes to use is tariffs, chips exported to the rest of the world will be biased to come out of Taiwan - or whomever is lowest cost, even those manufactured on behalf of American multi-nationals.

>>106395394
tariffs are for short term coercion
this is the overall plan
https://www.hudsonbaycapital.com/documents/FG/hudsonbay/research/638199_A_Users_Guide_to_Restructuring_the_Global_Trading_System.pdf

for semiconductors specifically, look at what happened to japan
i know it will work out, but it just feels... cruel? not the free trade and fair competition stuff we grew up with

>>106395372
70% or whatever is more than enough to lose tsmc and taiwan to bankruptcy
foundries are all about scale. intel is losing right now because it doesn't have scale

>>106395438
in no way is the u.s. as powerful as it was in the 1980s. the world is multi-polar now. another plaza accord is unrealistic.

>>106395452
>foundries are all about scale. intel is losing right now because it doesn't have scale
lies.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/intel-manufacturing-business-suffers-setback-broadcom-tests-disappoint-sources-2024-09-04/
"The tests conducted by Broadcom involved sending silicon wafers - the foot-wide discs on which chips are printed - through Intel's most advanced manufacturing process known as 18A, the sources said. Broadcom received the wafers back from Intel last month. After its engineers and executives studied the results, the company concluded the manufacturing process is not yet viable to move to high-volume production."
intel cannot deliver at all.

>>106395458
taiwan isn't 1980s japan
nowhere close

>>106395479
exactly, taiwan isn't as dependent on the u.s. as japan was in the 1980s

they will be bailed out

>>106395501
taiwan's economy is 1/40 the size of the us economy. at the time of the plaza accords, japan's economy was 1/3 the size of the us economy.
25% of taiwan's exports go directly to the us. the only country taiwan is more dependent on is... china. not something that we would want more of.

>>106395438
>i know it will work out, but it just feels... cruel? not the free trade and fair competition stuff we grew up with

In my opinion many of the things that we were all led to believe as true as children where lies that were not said for our own benefit. The unwinding of those lies are now magnifying if not directly leading to local, national and international instability.

By donating more money to terrorist organizations.

>>106395607
The unwinding of lies is baked in to the rise of the internet. Baked into every communication technology’s paradigm shift really.
>printing press invented
>Europeans go full schizo protestant and start massacring each other in 30 year long wars because of the church’s dirty laundry being exposed through the presses.
Really the political shifts we’ve gotten from the internet have been mild compared to the historical norm.

>>106395673
That's a good take, but it isn't all roses because this internet infrastructure is just raw tooling and can more easily be used for control (ex. social media) than any libertarian dream.

>>106395547
>biggest-economies-world-over-time.jpg
what the fuck is that?
japan never was the world's biggest economy in the 1990s.

>>106395643
>pledges a bit of spare change
$1million is a lot for any middle class individual, once we start talking about organizations, it's nothing to write home about. This wAS worthy of a headline back in the '40s or something.

>>106395810
in the '40s pledging a bit of spare change to an anti-lynching campaign would have gotten you boycotted immediately. no company would dare this.

>>106392649 (OP)
Start a nuclear apocalypse.

>>106393406
>They are hemorhaging revenue
This is only true since late 2023. Prior to that Intel was bringing in billions in NET income a year. In 2024 they had to declare Intel 7 a failure which was a 10B+ write off. Intel still, to this day has over 20B in cash and short term investments and another 150B in other assets/investments. People who think Intel is about to be bankrupt it retarded.

The worst that could happen to Intel is if Intel 18A is declared a failure, which won't be known until later 2026 / 2027. At which point their course of action is simple: sell off the fabs. The fabs are basically the only reason they are losing money.

>>106395034
speaking of jensen huang, he files a suspiciously large portion of his patents in taiwan

>>106394370
imec projected out to 2030s. There's a lot to do even if scaling actually stops a little below 2A.

>>106392649 (OP)
Intel was never no.1

>>106393596
Guess what CPUs go inside those officeslop Dells? Intel
AMD is too unstable to run in these environments.

>>106397573
Yeah, it seems you're right. AMD has passed Intel in data center revenue where RAS is not a consideration. But client does prioritize RAS and that's still 70:30 in favor of Intel.

>>106392649 (OP)
Give the president a big chunk of the profits?

We were giving them grant payments provided they built fabs and tax deductions on buying machinery to fill them out.
I don't quite see how they need more. But also I don't understand the feds changed the terms of the deal in a way that makes it easier to give up manufacturing. They got their capital injection and now they don't lose anything by stopping construction of fabs. Even the 5% warrant option would probably be at over market price lol

>>106394282
Probably related to finFET

>>106392649 (OP)
>How would you save this company from bankruptcy?
By forcing every US citizen to buy an Intel CPU based on Income or face jail time.
Under $100k must buy at least an Intel 5
$100k-$1M must buy at least an Intel 7
$1M+ must buy at least an Intel 9
This is all for national security and to keep capitalism alive

>>106397954
holy fuck unbelievably based

>>106397954
what's the time frame, when do I have to buy an intel chip by?

>>106393519
Army had gallium arsnide chips running at 100GHZ in the 1970s.
But you're not supposed to know that.

MARRY LITTLE GIRLS>

>>106392649 (OP)
How to fix Intel:
>Publicly admit you made a bad decision through bad leadership(knowing this will tank your stock) promise to fix this in the name of free market competition
>Bring back the old naming scheme1200k, 1300k, etc.
>Remove the cuck cores from all CPUs
>In the consumer desktop space out the pedal to the floor by ignoring power draw and efficiency and focus on raw performance for desktop CPUs. Gamers don't care about power efficiency
>R&D quantum and light based optical processors for future market to break the 6ghz cap on CPUs
>Put more money into GPUs, go as far to team up with AMD on GPU development to dethrone Nvidia
>Fire at least 50% of managers and 50% of all the departments who appear at the press conference announcements who spout useless buzzword talking points,
>Keep some of the new prefab facilities
>Up the pcie lanes on desktop and xeon CPUs
>Build a thread ripper competitor
It's that fucking simple

>>106393618
>Zetaflops
YT ppl don't know that in the 1970s the army had 100GHZ chips, and not for "just" signal processing.

So they'll dismiss your note.
Because they're anti-loli bride New Testament faggots.

MARRY LITTLE GIRLS
YHWH ALLOWS CHILD BRIDES.

>>106392649 (OP)
start making CRT/SED screens obviously.

>>106398030
Every year of course. The purchase receipt will have a code on it that you can enter into your annual tax lodgement.

>>106398133
Intel will be dead in 6 months if they listened to you.
Your whole post reeks of 16 year old with zero life or business experience.

Maybe israel could spend a couple trillion less in bombs and make an actual competitive processor?

I would've started partnering with universities to create courses that take advantage of intel's gpus and get intel mind share.
>GPU programming course with SYCL
>AI software integration course with ONNX
>Game Programming course with Intel's version of RenderDoc running on Intel GPUs.
>3D animation course using Intel Embree for export render pass.
>CPU optimisation course with Intel Advisor
And in exchange for these courses give a mainframe of Intel GPUs that the students / researchers can share.

Also try to find an AMD vulnerability and heavily publicise it and then also ask Trump if he can force all US govt and US govt contractors to use Intel.

>>106392649 (OP)
TSMC chiplets (1 being "PCores" and the other being "ECores").
Schedule Windows and other junk to ECores.
Just works out of the box + super good scaling for power / temperatures.
Good price.

>>106398484
Its stupid how little intel is pushing their GPU stuff. I am not even sure the c-suite knows what they have. Also where are the B60's? Where is the B770? wtf intel.

I've written this before but intel does not understand how to behave when they are not a market leader. They have to price their stuff aggressively and build different products.

They seem to be trying to design massive rack-scale systems now because nvida is doing it, but I can't understand who would buy that. You need code developed before you can justify buying hardware. They need to start from the bottom up - like nvidia did - and seed the ecosystem with great performing hardware and awesome software and sdks.

I started with sycl on the A380 then the A770 and would be in the market for a lot more gpu - and I think the sycl/dpc++ tech is absolutely great; but it is as if they are trying to keep it a secret. Hell, that recent gamers nexus video about nvidia cards in china, and the chinese were like, "Intel makes gpus?"

It blows my mind. They have the entire gpu tech stack and are failing to articulate or execute any kind of plan around it.

>>106392649 (OP)
Now that the government owns the means of production, they can simply tariff the competition into oblivion.

>>106398168
>mo, the managerial parasites are actually necessary, they aren't 99% useless retards who leech your money while doing basically nothing
We had your mumber by 1941, fag.

>>106398599
I could not agree with you more.
I've dabbled with SYCL on my A770.
They had mature devtools ready on launch / near launch.
But they just never had any follow up.

There should be a fork of SYCL ML devs right now in the AI boom but without any follow up from their launch they failed.

>>106398133
>In the consumer desktop space out the pedal to the floor by ignoring power draw and efficiency and focus on raw performance for desktop CPUs. Gamers don't care about power efficiency
Retarded take, power efficiency is important to prevent chips from melting itself at sub 22nm process, not just for power saving.
>R&D quantum and light based optical processors for future market to break the 6ghz cap on CPUs
Kek, and lose couple hundred more billion while they are hemorrhaging money.

On a separate topic, does Intel fab offer service to external customers and how good is it compared to other traditional fabs like TSMC or GlobalFoundries cause I rarely hear any company using Intel fabs.

>>106392649 (OP)
Intel == CIA, has done since i386 cpu in 1985
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I386
Virtual memory == CPU backdoored

CIA can print money, make new citizen identities, kill their enemies, etc, all in the name of national security. There is no way they "need" a USGov buyout, it's more like, they want to remind everyone who Daddy is.

>>106392649 (OP)
invest in an AI that makes chip layouts.
ai is good at making electrical layouts that make no sense to man, but perform a lot better for some reason. can't wait to see a picture of an ai made die.

>>106395547
>Germany became a thing in the 1990s
>And hey they're doing really good now
>Perhaps forced arbitration and no worker mobility is a good thing for everyone, not just the owners?

I live in a company town in Germany where the Boss banned my partner/wife from visiting my house, tried to force me to drink e.coli infected water, posioning my pregnant wife. Sick people. No law.

>>106398848
Your right but it's also the case where the government isn't monolithic and has several factions in it. There's the boys club (cia/mossad/Rothschild/fed reserve) and then there's several infighting goyim factions across the government

>>106395102
Because AMD and Nvidia having monopolies on consumer hardware is bad for everyone, and China having a monopoly on manufacturing is even worse. I'm invested in Nvidia too, but all of these companies have gotten very complacent when given immense power over the market.
Intel at least is suffering for it, so hopefully they learn from their mistakes and come back from this.
Also childhood nostalgia I guess. I used to use those old ass anime wallpapers with the Intel inside logo on it.

>>106392649 (OP)
>How would you save this company from bankruptcy?
Firstly, stop making chips in a dangerous genocidal totalitarian state like Israel.

>>106392778
But they're made in Israel already.
In fact, intel have been getting progressively shitter since then. It makes no economic sense whatsoever.

>>106394061
Assuming chinese espionage agents don't force price hikes within intel through things like ESG.
This, btw, is why ESG is REALLY being pushed.

>>106394231
>Yes intel massivly fucked up because the board of directors is a bunch of shitheads and hired totally inept CEOs, and yes they went woke and to be blunt all of the above nearly drove them out of business.
And why did that happen?
Oh because of government policy?
I wonder who paid or promoted those things and if they have any chinese connection...

>>106395261
Cool, fuck the USA.
Truly China's bitch now.

>>106398934
wenn zitierst du, schizo?

>>106399482
intel already stopped this. intel fabs aren't competitive. so intel let's tsmc make their chips.

>>106392649 (OP)
Nationalize the company for 5 years and revive cancelled projects, redouble focus on cutting edge process technology. This is a matter of national security now.

>>106392649 (OP)
If there was a way to do it they would have already done it.
Intel squandered all their money on in-house side hustles to compete with other companies and failed at everything. So now they are left with their core businesses and have to deal with a government that forced them to make massive money losing investments.

>>106394485
>>106394401
>>106394617

>>106399568
Their most bleeding edge pantherlake chips are made in-house on intel 18A

>>106399587
we basically already did this 3 years ago.
ohio fab still failed despite the government paying for it.

>>106399587
They need to start rehiring the people they've fired starting with the userbenchmark guy

>>106398614
Intel fabs are just a consumer of European made lithography machines and Chinese heavy metals
They aren't independent by any means

>>106399639
panther lake hasn't launched yet and they literally said the same thing about arrow lake before it launched.
intel is already planning for intel 18a to fail.

>>106392649 (OP)
>save
they dug their own grave

>>106399639
broadcom already said intel 18a is a failure see >>106395472

>>106392778
>Welchified
Explain

>>106399706
oh nvm I got it kek

>>106392649 (OP)
Get the governmetn to give me a bailout

>>106392649 (OP)
it's now a hollow shell. I don't think it can be saved.

>>106399716
Oh I thought you were talking about the juice

>>106395369
yes, but prolly too late. not even indian genius engineers can save intel now.

>>106399754
>https://community.intel.com/t5/Blogs/Intel/We-Are-Intel/Creating-State-of-the-Art-CPU-for-a-Better-Future-at-Intel-India/post/1334633
You mean the same Indian geniuses that gave us the waste of sand

>>106392649 (OP)
they're in no danger of bankruptcy. The quest is how do you make the company a leader again and the only answer is they need to start delivering on new fab nodes after 10 years of failures and delays. They will eventually give up if they keep f'ing up b/c it costs too much money and then we're all screwed

>>106399658
>European made lithography machines
US might have sold their lithography tech to an European company to counter Japanese lithography but the condition was that said company needs to build those machines in the US.
https://www.eetimes.com/u-s-gives-ok-to-asml-on-euv-effort/
«U.S. Undersecretary of Energy Ernest Moniz said, “if the EUV technology proves viable, ASML has agreed to build a factory in the U.S., similar to its Netherlands facility, as well as to establish an American research and development center. The factory will supply 100 percent of all ASML's sales in the United States.”»

>>106393406
Intel should have put AI accelerator units in their CPUs instead of releasing garbage GPUs. They could have brought AI to edge devices like laptops but instead they tried and failed to break the Nvidia datacenter AI compute monopoly.

>>106399923
doing ai on ddr6 memory is retarded. you don't have any bandwidth.

>>106392649 (OP)
Let it die. Nothing of value will be lost.

>>106400300
Blatant antisemitism isnt appreciated on this site

>>106394231
>yes they went woke and to be blunt all of the above nearly drove them out of business.
kek, their previous CEO spent all day posting bible verses on Xitter.

>>106400300
Cope, Trump will save Intel.

>>106400354
biden gave intel only money if intel invest in fabs.
trump does this:
https://www.intc.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1748/intel-and-trump-administration-reach-historic-agreement-to
>The existing claw-back and profit-sharing provisions associated with the government’s previously dispersed $2.2 billion grant to Intel under the CHIPS Act will be eliminated to create permanency of capital as the company advances its U.S. investment plans.
>The government’s investment in Intel will be a passive ownership, with no Board representation or other governance or information rights. The government also agrees to vote with the Company’s Board of Directors on matters requiring shareholder approval, with limited exceptions.
looks like trump is saving only intel leadership's money.

>>106394231
Let's be real
Intel is too captured by bureaucracy and decades old hubris to make use of their strengths. They'd sooner kill themselves over who gets to run xyz division than work together and innovate fast enough to beat their competition

>>106400354
Why should the taxpayers save these failing companies? Why don't you guys hold the ones actually responsible for Intel's downfall responsible?

>>106400437
bullshit.
intel already re-organzied their org chart completely last year.
https://www.intc.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1710/a-message-from-intel-ceo-pat-gelsinger-to-employees
>To build on our progress, we plan to establish Intel Foundry as an independent subsidiary inside of Intel. This governance structure will complete the process we initiated earlier this year when we separated the P&L and financial reporting for Intel Foundry and Intel Products.
>A subsidiary structure will unlock important benefits. It provides our external foundry customers and suppliers with clearer separation and independence from the rest of Intel. Importantly, it also gives us future flexibility to evaluate independent sources of funding and optimize the capital structure of each business to maximize growth and shareholder value creation.

>>106400487
It's for national security.

>>106400507
You missed the point, I'm not asking whether or not Intel needs to be saved, yes letting the die is probably gonna be bad but I'm asking why they should be given taxpayer money for killing what was once a dominant chipmaker?

>>106400507
>Yeah dude national security™, dude, just pay more taxes dude

>>106400507
not really.

Pentagon cut their funding to Intel after GloFo got pissed for the MIC only awarding one domestic fab and ignoring all other fabs like GloFo.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-12/pentagon-scraps-plan-to-spend-2-5-billion-on-intel-chip-grant
>The Pentagon pulled out of a plan to spend as much as $2.5 billion on a chip grant to Intel Corp., people familiar with the situation said, putting the onus on another federal agency — the Commerce Department — to make up for the shortfall.
>In a statement, GlobalFoundries said it doesn’t believe Intel’s sole Secure Enclave designation is the right solution.
>“GlobalFoundries has been a secure chip provider for decades,” a company spokesperson said. “We appreciate the US government’s effort to address the challenge. We have a proven approach.”
That somehow the "secure enclave" designation still survived after the Pentagon pulled out is absurd. Pentagon isn't involved.

>>106392649 (OP)
Let it die. If every company knows they can be bailed out or helped by government, then they have even less reason to bother trying to make a good product or provide a good service.

Remember that these are the same assholes that gave us the Intel Management Engine, which alone is reason enough to let them die.

>>106400579
They are not trying to save Intel but Intel as a foundry but it's already too late and they are too far away to have leading edge nodes.

>>106400626
exactly.
biden gave intel grants to invest in fabs. intel failed to meet the milestone for the grants. remember ohio fab was planned to operate in 2025. currently ohio is delayed till at least 2030.
now instead of losing that grant, trump decided to throw good money after bad and converted that grant into stock.

>>106400714
Privatized profits, socialized losses in action

>>106400802
It makes sense when you realize the same small group of ruling elites controls both the private and public sector. They are as much an arm of the state as the Army or Amazon.
When the elite want to do something that fits within the framework of the state as it is currently defined they will have the government roll it out but when they want to do something that maybe the constitution does not permit they just have the big companies roll it out.
There is one agenda and the ruling elite use all the tools at their disposal to see it enacted.

>>106392649 (OP)
I would remove their Israel, India, and China branches.

Can you people please post only positive things about intel I have 50k riding on them.

>>106401414
They can't die, but they also can't live.

FOREIGNERS AND WOMEN OUT

WHITE AMERICAN MEN IN

IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT

>>106399716
>broke capitalism
holy woke
either embrace capitalism for what it is or admit youre a goddamn commienig

>>106401445
No, capitalism should be a tool for the welfare of a nation, it should not be a get rich quick scheme for investors. It cannot survive that way.

>>106393551
Nope
>The original DEC Alpha CPU architecture was developed by Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) and later sold by Compaq to Intel Corp. in 2001, effectively ending its development. While Hewlett-Packard acquired Compaq and continued support for a time, the Alpha's intellectual property was transferred to Intel.

>>106392649 (OP)
SR-IOV enabled GPU's with 2x ram or 1/2 the price of my competitors.

>>106396116
>Intel still, to this day has over 20B in cash and short term investments
that being, *squints* 1 year of their latest annual burn rate
Granted uncle sam just threw them a massive welfare check. Intel is now a welfare queen that doesnt have to innovate or profit to survive. Doomed to irrelevancy. They wont go bankrupt tho, thats true.

>>106392649 (OP)
kill all jews

>>106401445
no
it's a peculiar american form of capitalism that doesn't impact most of east asia, for example

>>106392974
>t. retarded consumer
the only market that matters is datacenter, and intel has gone from majority to minority in a few years. meanwhile amd keeps growing because epyc is the best chip on the market right now.

besides, nobody except gigapoors use anything except a macbook for work.

>>106392649 (OP)
Semiconductor work is not prestigious work in the US, despite the strategic importance. By contrast, it is highly respected and relatively well remunerated in the countries doing well in it.

We have developed an economy oriented around selling one another websites, and we are only belatedly noticing that none of our enemies seem to have followed.

>>106392649 (OP)
first they killed the nazis.... then they learned who the real jews where ... :o)

>>106405548
>Semiconductor work is not prestigious work in the US
Any work is prestigious as long as you're the one ordering people around.

>>106398199
The last batch of processors the Israeli branch designed were the ones which the rusting issues.

>>106406328
>The last batch of processors the Israeli branch designed were the ones which the rusting issues.
>rusting
Did they get fired for this?

>>106394731
What do you mean? all intel has done is design in the past 10 years since they hit their fab issue, if intel's issue was just fabs, then arrowlake woudn't have been a dud, clearly its not enough.

>>106398824
>I rarely hear any company using Intel fabs.
That’s because companies think intel would steal their IP.
Only non competitors who won’t steal your IP overtly like TSMC or samsung fab make sense if you’re a chip designer.

>>106398543
Because they kept replacing the guy in charge of GPUs. In spite of that, their software has had a better foundation than AMD. I'm pretty sure they know now and it's the primary reason why BattleMatrix and B50/B60s didn't get cancelled after B580s were launched and is still losing Intel money.

>>106392649 (OP)
Robotics is going to be the next big thing. Tesla and Amazon are going to win that race. Intel can ride the robotics wave like Nvidia rode the LLM wave.

>>106392649 (OP)
You now remember the Intel123 leak.
https://t.me/exconfidential/590

>>106406346
I think their design team got demoted iirc.

>>106406504
>Tesla and Amazon are going to win that race
Dude America already lost, it's over.

>>106406839
China can't win if we outright ban their products. Even if we're a generation behind, we'll have to build our own products.

>>106406875
Anon, China already won.

>China leads in robotics patents, having secured 5,590 patents related to humanoid robots in the past five years compared to 1,442 for the U.S.
>Chinese companies can produce robots at a significantly lower cost. For example, building a robot arm in the U.S. is about 2.2 times more expensive than in China

>>106406875
How is that working for Tesla with electric cars?

>>106406910
We can still have Intel hardware powering Tesla bots and Amazon warehouses.
China won't have access to most of the world's markets, so we still win.
That's why everyone's using American AI. No one's using Chinese AI.
>>106406969
Tesla is still a trillion-dollar company, but the tech behind electric cars wasn't that special.
Once they can scale their FSD trials, they'll be the only players in the market and Elon will be the world's first trillionaire.

>>106392649 (OP)
We need socialism to save it.

>>106407086
how would that work?

>>106401445
Welch was a dipshit who everyone took seriously because he yelled and made bold absolute statements about shit he didn't actually understand. He's the ultimate short term thinking scam artist, and one of the progenitors of our current financial and manufacturing predicament. The only thing you should be mad about is that he's already in the grave, so we don't have the opportunity to torture him to death.

>>106392649 (OP)
As in doing what it needs to be done without getting fired by the investors?
Didn't work out for Gelsinger.

>>106398824
>Regardless of a board decision, Intel will make chips via 18A in cases where its plans are already in motion, the people familiar with the matter said. This includes using 18A for Intel's in-house chips that it already designed for that manufacturing process, the people said.
>Intel also will produce a relatively small volume of chips that it has guaranteed for Amazon.com (AMZN.O), and Microsoft (MSFT.O), via 18A, with deadlines that make it unrealistic to wait for the development of 14A.
>However, according to some industry analysts, the 18A process is roughly equivalent to TSMC's so-called N3 manufacturing technology, which went into high-volume production in late 2022.
https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/intels-new-ceo-explores-big-shift-chip-manufacturing-business-2025-07-02/

>>106392649 (OP)
>fire all women
>fire all brownoids
i probably wouldn't have to do anything else, honestly.

>>106407287
gelsinger didn't do that. gelsinger wasted money on fabs that had nothing to fab. lip-bu tan is better here with
>Going forward, our investment in Intel 14A will be based on confirmed customer commitments. There are no more blank checks. Every investment must make economic sense. We will build what our customers need, when they need it, and earn their trust through consistent execution.
https://newsroom.intel.com/corporate/lip-bu-tan-steps-in-the-right-direction

>>106392649 (OP)
save? let it burn

>>106407344
wrong.

intel doesn't pay a competitive wage. white men wouldn't work there voluntarily. only h1b slaves.

>>106392649 (OP)
by choosing to be either a chip design company or a fab. You can't be both.

Being both means no one wants to hand over their designs to a competitor. It's a lose-lose situation.

>>106407403
works for samsung

>>106407429
No, it doesn't.
https://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=242950

>>106407477
that's only an internal re-org.
intel already did that and spun out its foundry business.
https://www.intc.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1710/a-message-from-intel-ceo-pat-gelsinger-to-employees
>To build on our progress, we plan to establish Intel Foundry as an independent subsidiary inside of Intel. This governance structure will complete the process we initiated earlier this year when we separated the P&L and financial reporting for Intel Foundry and Intel Products.
>A subsidiary structure will unlock important benefits. It provides our external foundry customers and suppliers with clearer separation and independence from the rest of Intel. Importantly, it also gives us future flexibility to evaluate independent sources of funding and optimize the capital structure of each business to maximize growth and shareholder value creation.

>>106407287
PG got the boot due to close ties with Biden, in light of Trump's incoming presidency.

>>106392649 (OP)
>Remember when they used to be the no.1 CPU manufacturer?
Yeah it was really bad.

>>106407492
Too little, too late. The writing was on the wall over a decade ago.
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4371617/Intel-exec-says-fabless-model--collapsing-

>>106407621
>The writing was on the wall over a decade ago.
>http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4371617/Intel-exec-says-fabless-model--collapsing-
there's no writing on the wall there whatsoever.

>>106392649 (OP)
Merge Intel with the United States government. Give national debt to Intel. Spin off Intel so they hold all the debt. Now there's no more national debt.

>>106407678
Remember AG's Only The Paranoid Survive? How would their foundry customers and competitors respond to Intel showing clear intent of becoming a monopoly? Their customers would diversify. Their competitors would offer exceptional concessions.

>>106407694
You can't sign over your debt without the creditor's approval.

>>106392649 (OP)
>How would you save this company from bankruptcy?
I would not. Let it die. Companies have to learn that they can't depend on the government to save them. It's Darwinism on the corporate level: survival of the fittest,

>>106407777
Except this is an extinction-level event.

>>106407777
What we have though is centrally planned communism which is why it got this way with bailouts and fake numbers in the first place. The plebs shouldn’t know what’s going on in the central planning committee “for their own protection think what Lenin would do”

>>106407806
No it’s not lol stop being a hysterical woman

>>106407777
quads of truth. you gotta let the chips fall where they fall. the opening in the industry will be filled with ambitious new engineers who can take it to the next level. out with the old in with the new.

>>106407813
lolbertarians like to shit on antitrust but intel should have been broken up
if intel never became a monopoly this wouldn't be a problem
what happens to search dominance if google can't compete?
should apple be our only relevant phone company?
same goes for all the other tech monopolies

>>106407821
There's no alternative to Intel right now. We would have to be completely reliant on TSMC.
There's also Samsung, but it's unlikely they'll make it either. And if something happens to TSMC...

>>106407777
Too bad a Jewish communist ate the Republican party

>>106407858
TSMC's fab is in Arizona. literally the same place where Intel's best fab is.

>>106407777
>I would not. Let it die. Companies have to learn that they can't depend on the government to save them. It's Darwinism on the corporate level: survival of the fittest,
Nice quads. That's how it should be.

>>106407899
They are legally required to keep everything important in Taiwan as part of their Silicon Shield strategy.
https://www.techpowerup.com/328663/tsmc-cant-legally-make-2-nm-chips-in-the-us-yet-latest-nodes-must-remain-in-taiwan

The Arizona fabs aren't a product of the free marktet either. The CHIPS Act was no less interventionist than keeping Intel afloat.

>>106407956
TSMC's fab in Arizona is still better than anything Intel currently has.
Intel got also Chips Act funds but failed to deliver a fab in Ohio on time. you don't award the loser even more money.

>>106408030
>. you don't award the loser even more money.
that's incredibly racist

>>106408030
You have to if there's no alternative.
It isn't just that there's no other American company left in this space. Each node costs billions of dollars spread out over a number of years. No VC is going anywhere near that space.
If Intel goes kaputt, ten different companies won't magically spring up to replace them. It's TSMC vs SMIC at that point. Both Chinese.

>>106408151
samsung is literally building a fab in texas

>>106408151
>No VC is going anywhere near that space.
false

>>106408156
Samsung is Intel with every problem magnified. Even more customers leaving. Even more reliant on governnment support. Even worse failures at every node. Far, far worse at retaining human capital.
Meanwhile, the Korean government is forcing Korean companies to work with Samsung, which means the entire Korean electronics sector is being dragged down by Samsung's incompetence.
>>106408181
>Japanese state-backed
Not a VC. VCs look for monopolies.
And no bank is handing out multi-billion dollars loans for unproven tech. Especially after a high-profile bankruptcy.

>>106408268
>Even more customers leaving.
Intel doesn't have customer retard.

>>106408156
Samsung is having trouble, because their Foundry simply sucks.

When Qualcomm gave them a chance with their Gen 1 chip, it suffered from massive issues just like Exynos did. After they switched to TSMC with their Gen 2, these issues vanished.

Samsung is just too incompetent to get good enough yields for their customers, that's why no one wamts to order the latest tech from them. Why should I pick 4nm from Samsung when they are prone to issues while TSMC offers me 4nm too?

>>106408268
would you at least agree that the US government should force Intel to spin out the foundry? we don't need the rest of Intel to survive.

>>106408366
Isn't that basically the plan? Hence the national security argument.

So found out my ex works for intel

Should I be happy?

>>106408398
no, Trump made basically the opposite deal. there's a penalty for spinning out the foundry.
https://newsroom.intel.com/corporate/intel-and-trump-administration-reach-historic-agreement
>The government will receive a five-year warrant, at $20 per share for an additional five percent of Intel common shares, exercisable only if Intel ceases to own at least 51% of the foundry business.

>>106408366
Would you call GlobalFoundries a success story?

there was a long stretch where i wondered how amd was ever going to claw itself back into CPU relevancy.

now intel is shit. crazy.
hopefully amd can make itself competitive with nvidia some day.

>>106399716
Easily solved by bringing back unions and by applying capital punishment for corruption in the government.

>>106408293
they have usg, dod, msft, mtk, and some nvda
$15 billion lifetime value
not great but it's something

>>106408156
Samsung and TSMC will have like four or five fabs in the US when all is said and done. And they will keep their leading edge processes at home (Taiwan literally passed a law banning TSMC from producing on its latest node in the US after their CEO said they could easily do so).

And they remain foreign controlled; IE: subject to whims of foreign powers. The CCP could blockade Taiwan and they may well instantly surrender rather than allow themselves to be destroyed and TSMC could order their US fabs to sabotage everything before the US seizes it, for example.

Intel has like almost twenty fabs in the US, and another handful in Israel which is basically also the US.

All of that is to say, Intel is now and will always be (so long as it doesn't fail) the only leading edge producer in the US that the US actually has control over... Thus the only manufacturer that is NOT a massive strategic vulnerability.

LET INTEL GO BANKRUPT.
THEN SOME NERD LIKE ME WILL MAKE A BETTER INTEL.

Why does everyone ignore older nodes?

~80% of the overall industry is East Asian.

Beg Jim Keller for help.

>>106408521
>Intel has like almost twenty fabs in the US
bullshit

>>106394282

its not like tower line ever stopped
maybe other lines deliver too

>>106408521
Intel has 3 fabs in the US. As many fabs in Israel.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000089875/programs/intel-corporation.html

>>106408556
What is your picture of their new/planned fabs circa two years ago supposed to prove? Do you think Intel magically conjured wafers out of thin air for decades prior to 2023? They already had dozens of operational fabs, though like half of them have closed/been sold off.

>>106407287

commenting image
my i5-4460 stalled that supernova day or close in timeline

>>106408589
They have three campuses in the US, there are multiple fabs at various campuses. By that measur,e TSMC has only one fab in the US, even though they have built two and are building a third, since they all right next to each other.

>>106408602
intel has no outside customers, so intel cannot keep older nodes running.
that pic is from 2024 and was the current state of fabs back then. in the meantime only most fab expansions got cancelled.

>>106408637
>that pic is from 2024 and was the current state of fabs back then.
>completely excludes their massive Oregon campus, its multiple fabs, and tens of thousands of employees

>intel has no outside customers
Soon to be rectified when Comrade Trump intervenes and tells fabless US companies to use them or get fucked with tariffs.

>>106408614
If you want to separate them out like that, for the most advanced nodes, there's just Arizona in the US and Kiryat Gat in Israel.
>>106408660
Oregon is mainly for R&D.

>>106408665
>and Kiryat Gat
no, Fab 38 construction got paused and only was planned for 2028 before.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/intel-halting-25-billion-factory-expansion-israel-israeli-media-report-2024-06-10/

>>106408556
higher res

>>106408521
>TSMC could order their US fabs to sabotage everything before the US seizes it,
who are the engineers going to listen to, their manager back in ching chong land, or the government power that will throw them in jail for twenty years? They have an expression in those parts: "the emperor is very far away".