Thread 106502277

>93%
>98%

>>106502277 (OP)
>44 FPS on a 4080

raytracing is bad because it takes an immense toll on performance while providing close to zero improvements in the game's actual enjoyment.

but this is the trend in video games, movies, and all other art forms: less money to writers and artists to create great stories and narratives and suggestive worlds, and more money to the autismo programmers and engines to have hideous attempts at realism

>>106502277 (OP)
>72fps differences
>only looks better 'cause dev refuse to make a good looking game without a crutch
damn raytracing is impressive

>>106502277 (OP)
left looks better

>>106502277 (OP)
Cherry picking, tons of scenes looks worse with it and take a lot more compute on top.

I have a 4090 and i don't even enable it or dlss slop.

Maybe in a decade it will be worthwhile.

>>106502277 (OP)
Sovl vs. Sovlless

Right one is NOT realistic

>>106502277 (OP)
The right lacks realistic shadows

>>106502277 (OP)
>116 fps to 44 fps
72 fps is a fair tradeoff to make everything look glossy, especially knowing it will solely function as a distraction from the awfully abundant lack of fun gameplay

>>106502346
>>106502332
>I went to Night City and it wasn't like this

>>106502277 (OP)
Left: Soulless
Right: Soulless

>>106502277 (OP)
t. firstie

It's surprising CP2077 still works without it
Eventually they'll just remove all non-RT options one day
More games are becoming RT only

>>106502399
>More games
Isn't it limited to Doom Dark Ages and Indiana Jones?
Their RT settings can be reduced to run on a 6600XT & whatever Turing equivalent.

>>106502304
It's not, the newer BF and CoD don't even have gaytracing. Big publishers are realizing they need the poorfag market as well.
Whether it's the future or not is now debatable, considering the monstrous space heaters needed to even run these effects at acceptable framerates and resolutions. Even with hallucinated frames, the most popular cards on steam can barely push RT.
They tried to force this too soon without the hardware to support it.

>>106502294
Yep, OP us such a brown poorfag and can't cope hard enough

>>106502277 (OP)
Lol this poorfag only has 16GB of RAM.

Path Tracing is for two cards only : the 4090 and the 5090.
every else go home

>>106502304
>less money to writers and artists to create great stories and narratives
Hate to tell you but the talent simply doesn't exist anymore. One of the main demands during the writers strike was "more people in the writers room". The current crop of writers have grown up doing group projects with group grades. When they're expected to do anything on their own, they're lost. Even worse is that the output from group writing tends to be committee'd to death. On the rare occasion when someone comes up with an interesting idea, it ends up getting "refined" by the group into boring, tepid slop as everyone wants to put their own mark on it so they can share in the credit.

>>106502565
The general trend is that everything is becoming more centralized in big conglomerates. If the gaming landscape was composed of 80% reasonably sized indie studios, they would have the money to only hire one writer and give him free range to infuse the story with his vision. Instead all the writers' jobs are being centralized in these big game development studios which have to play it safe to not lose out on the investments, so they design everything by committee with zero individuality and personality.

>>106502376
t. good morning sar

>>106502277 (OP)
Garbage on both sides. All this raytracing stuff is going straight to the bin because of zoomer led brainrot.

>>106502753
>b-bbuh less talk bout zoomyz unsted u gays
Fuck off, retard.

>>106502277 (OP)
I think the best way to shut nshitia shills up would be to start making shitty, low effort rt scenes and comparing them to high effort non-rt versions of the same scene.

>>106502277 (OP)
You can raytrace on a $25 RX 570 buddy.

>>106502358
Correct.

>>106502277 (OP)
>what is SSR
>what are GI probes

>>106502847
What if I told you that RT actually enables better effort since there is no hours of days long final bake to see how the finished scene looks. And yes despite what some braindead people claim RT doesn't mean no lighting artists.

>>106502937
RT for improving lighters workflows is obviously not what any of these shills are shilling for, though

>>106502277 (OP)
What's the point of raytracing here?
The pink lights look static, so do the reflected objects on the bottom. All of that could have been baked in, instead of raytracing it in real-time.

>>106502277 (OP)
Left looks uncanny. Zoomer neon saturated colors aesthetic. Who tf wants that?
If you want more poppy colors just turn the brightness up.

>>106502332
The right one is realistic. Sorry but real life sucks and has bad graphics.

>>106502304
>raytracing is bad because it takes an immense toll on performance while providing close to zero improvements in the game's actual enjoyment.

so all graphics are bad

Being poor also takes an immense toll on performance and you're not giving your opinion on that

forcing the user to ray trace offloads work from the developer so they can save money. you can get good results without ray tracing. if I am forced to do ray tracing on my local hardware, the game should be discounted.

>>106502277 (OP)
>>/v/
you stupid nigger
sage

>>106502774
I'm not wrong. Look at that mess. A bunch of ugly, fake, overdone lights trashing an already mediocre 3d composition. Zoomers lost their brains to rainbow LED rape and this is the kind of slop they want everything to be.

>>106503015
>so all graphics are bad
who are you quoting?

>>106503068
hey vro lets relax and remember everyone makes mistakes lets all just take a deep breath.

>>106502882
sure if you like looking at pictures

>>106502277 (OP)
I'm pretty sure left side is closer to the intended look.
They have a mismatch between how light intensity is interpreted in both rendering methods - and that's were most of the discrepancy comes from.

>>106502722
Doesn't matter how much money you have if what you want to buy doesn't exist. Money doesn't cause things that don't exist to magically appear. At best it can inspire someone to try to provide that thing but that's no guarantee that they will succeed.

>>106502294
cut the OP some slack hes probably never actually seen raytracing used outside of screenshots and youtube videos. describing the importance of framerate to someone like this is like trying to describe color to a blind person

>>106503580
If writers have become shit because the industry had promoted a certain waynof working, then the same can be done in reverse

>>106502294
PT on the rtx4080 is just a demo. You need to pay up for a 5090 if you want playable PT

>>106502277 (OP)
both look like dogshit not worth the install size

>>106502304
all this raytracing talk made me realize how much math and engineering went into the "old" methods which only increased my appreciation of the latter.

>>106502277 (OP)
RT always completely falls apart in motion, which is why it only ever looks good in cherrypicked screenshots. The noise from the rudimentary denoising techniques employed to make it run at more than 2fps is bad enough, but then you have artifacts and ghosting on top of that thanks to the requirement to use upscaling to get anything close to an enjoyable framerate. I don't give a shit if it makes things easier for the developers. If you're doing less work then you should lower the price of your game. Instead they're trying to make $70 the new normal. Eat shit.

>>106502937
>there is no hours of days long final bake to see how the finished scene look
then enable raytracing in game making engines and then release the game with baked lighting lmao

>>106502277 (OP)
That is a ridiculous difference in brightness. What is it supposed to look like?

>>106502277 (OP)
I like it because I can render great-looking animations in Unreal Engine 5 at 4K in seconds on a single GPU.

>>106503084
You have no business visiting this board, pick one of the more tard-friendly ones, like /v/,

>>106503876
It's 80 now.

When there's a new technique, devs always overdo it. Raytracing is way too shiny.

>>106504322
It's not just reflections, it can handle pretty much every part of the rendering process, but it's costly as shit, and the upscaling methods they use to make it usable are awful and proprietary. Now nvidia wants almost 100% of the frames being hallucinated by DLSS. It's a terrible path to take computer graphics down to.

>>106502277 (OP)
>Spends hundreds of dollars for environmental effects that are ignored 90% of the time of the game.
This is like buying a 900HP car and only ever driving it at the speed limit on public roads.

is bad because i do not like it, i only like good things, and funny things, and cute things

>>106502304
>raytracing is bad because it takes an immense toll on performance
see >>106502290

>>106502277 (OP)
That's path tracing, not ray tracing.

Why has no one mentioned how it ruins the artistic intent of scenes if it's not developed with non traditional rendering in mind?

I strongly doubt major game studios are willing to give artists time to do a scene twice to get it to look as they want. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like double the work.

>>106502332
The bright pink light isn't supposed to shine on other surfaces?

>>106502277 (OP)
It's not bad per se, it's just an immature technology that no one asked for.

>>106502476
>>106502294
works fine on my 5090

>>106504460
>>106502999
The glossy surfaces would be dirtier IRL and provide an uneven reflection.

>>106504447
All graphical engines since Source use raytracing when compiling maps. Light sources are calculated and bounce realistically during compile time.

The only "benefit" provided by raytracing is that lights and reflections are dynamic, but there are so many ways to create "good enough" reflection and lights that it just makes no sense to take such a huge hit in performance for so small gains.

>>106502304
This is correct and makes midwits seethe and foam

>>106503876
Yeah these games feel like they have a 300ms latency and don't feel good to play at all. They're best experienced in videos and screenshots where you can't feel the lag

>>106503050
>you can get good results without ray tracing.

>>106502277 (OP)
Left looks much better, also you could recreate right side without path tracing easily.

>>106502277 (OP)
>RAYTRACING IS BAD BECAUSE
because it went from 116 FPS to 44 FPS. fuck off

>>106502277 (OP)
You can make the second picture without realtime nvidia (tm) raytracing.
You can bake the lights, you can use SVOGI (that even the nintendo switch 1 runs), you can use PRT like crysis.
And in all cases you're left with more GPU time to go do something else.

>>106502277 (OP)
>I need flashy lights and reflections or else le game bad!!!
I'd rather be poor in finances than poor in soul.

>>106502277 (OP)
Right looks worse to me.

>>106502277 (OP)
>shit's not reflective at all in on the left suddenly turns into a mirror
ooooh shiny colors
yeah, fucking great
how autistic are you, bozo?
pic related - op with path tracing

>>106506082
that's because the poverty also extends to your brain
>>106505416
you can but it's easier to just use RT, and it's now supported on every single platform. it's not just an nvidia thing. people here are extremely late and spouting midwittery, per usual.

>>106502277 (OP)
>MUH VIDEO GAMES!!!!!!!

>>106504381
This and judging by all the pointless cosmetic mods I'm convinced the people still "playing" this game spend all their time in photo mode

>disables part of the reflection on purpose
>all the yellow lights ambiance (see palms) is lost
>116 vs 44 fps for a tiny glass patch
20 years ago, smart people could use a bitmap to distort a mapped reflection and did smart tricks for shading

>>106502304
>it takes an immense toll on performance
it only looks like that way because you compare two decades of hardware and software optimizations with 6 years old tech. keep in mind that there's like 90% of GPU chip decidaded only to rasterizer performance.

>>106502722
>>106503580
This is an econ discussion.
Your problem is monopolies, the solution always would be a derivative of deregulation, preferably legally. Which in this case would be the abolishment of IP and perma ban on subsidies desu
This is no reason to doom. You can't centralize a functional economy as you need to parasitically depend on a non centralized economy due to the economic calculation problem.
If and when corpos try to centralize, literally every corpo involved will be as unproductive as they are centralized, if/when govts try bailing them out, they will simply have a bigger crash later until govt can't bail anyone out because they parasitically drove everyone else out of the market and can't justify the enormous costs anymore
Tech will sort itself out on the long-run and be sorted out on the short run as well if policies like IP abolishment are enacted.
Stop killing games and the right to repair movement are semi decent attempts at this and these movements can be unified and actually achieve their stated goals if they culminate in the abolishment of IP desu

>>106507279
>>disables part of the reflection on purpose
??
>>all the yellow lights ambiance (see palms) is lost
this is an issue with any game that has to tack RT on top of baked lighting because you'd basically have to design everything twice, not an issue with a native RT game.
>>116 vs 44 fps for a tiny glass patch
obviously not just reflections, it's all the lighting. the recent IdTech games with native RT have flawless performance, so this rtx is le slow thing doesn't fly, it can be as expensive as you want it to be.
If we listened to poorfags we wouldn't have any new technology. Why go to the moon? Niggers are starving in america. Why have clunky automobiles when the horse wagon works fine? Why have ray tracing when baked lighting works now? It's that retarded slave morality of theirs that leads to a complete lack of vision. Poorfags are a blight.

>>106503103
You, retard

Raytracing isn't bad but even if you're rich you ought to recognize graphics aren't improving and performance is getting worse, it's just less effort on the part of the developers. Battlefield V with reflections-only raytracing looks better than Cyberpunk with pathtracing, and runs like 10x faster too.

Graphics programmers like raytracing because a bunch of shit that is annoying to solve just works instantly when you can trace actual rays throughout the scene. But the problem is that it's so computationally expensive that you end up resorting to a million tricks like DLSS that end up making your game a smeary blurry garbage mess.

Baking light and virtual probes are better for 90% of applications still.

>>106507790
>??
Compare the reflection on the yellow beam vs the glass, it's obvious they didn't use a RT-less alternative for the glass when the option is disabled, the comparison itself is retarded.

>not an issue with a native RT game.
"native RT" and "DLSS" are rushed shit abusing of filters to hide their mediocre game.

>>106502277 (OP)
the left looks much more like a realistic night shot. while the right has technical advantages, it's turned up to 11 and just looks over done. like just how bright ARE those pink lights?

>>106508068
It's a style choice, cyberpunk aesthetics are all about bright neon lights

>>106502277 (OP)
RT is great obviously, it's been the go-to rendering technique for offline stuff for decades now for a reason. The problem with real-time RT is that it's computationally very expensive and difficult, so despite us being on the 4th (more like 3rd) generation of hardware it's still a huge challenge that requires corner cutting all over the place, with visible downsides.

If we ever get to a point where the hardware is fast enough for legit RTRT it's going to be awesome, or at least if we get to a point where it can be less compromised compared to what we have today.

>>106508086
sure, that part i get, but with that much spill on the walls and ground i would expect the light sources to be pretty blinding (read: blown out), not just the same shade at the walls/ground

>>106508104
Why would they be blinding? Light is very easy to see at night, in the fucking dark. The pink lights are the only actual lights intended for illumination in that area, all the rest are light-up ads. I'd certainly expect the pink from actual light fixtures to be brighter and more visible than some light-up ads just meant to draw attention to themselves.

>>106504417
>>106502290
>116FPS
>44FPS

>>106502304
Why doesn't this logic apply to every graphical effect?

Which card can do 4K/100+fps/RT?

>>106502277 (OP)
>44 FPS
If a game can't consistently maintain 250+ FPS at all times, it's shit.

>>106508214
Because not every graphical effect has the same performance impact

>>106502277 (OP)
No thanks, i dont need any of that stuff. i played Ion Fury for the first time 3 years ago and it was a great looking game and fun game. and im not a nostalgia boomer. i never grew up playing fps games on pc in the early 2000s

>>106508029
>"native RT" and "DLSS" are rushed shit abusing of filters to hide their mediocre game.
one has nothing to do with the other, nor does this have anything to do with 'filters', you haven't the slightest clue obviously.
>>106508214
It applies to every graphical effect that doesn't run on his 8800gt. Anything that runs on his computer is good, anything that doesn't is bad, so everyone must cater to his weakness and poverty, and that's righteous because 'insert bullshit about story mattering', even though we have games that are technically impressive and have good storytelling, he's just appealing to a false dichotomy.
Poorfags are a blight.

>>106508495
Cope

>>106508029
>RT and dlss are filters
how do people as dumb as you even figure out how to post here?

>>106508560
RT is too slow to render each pixel, it does come with a filter and less work for the developer...
DLSS is a filter by definition, a mediocre way to post process the shit they make.

>>106508578
You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

>>106507584
>they will simply have a bigger crash later until govt can't bail anyone out because they parasitically drove everyone else out of the market and can't justify the enormous costs anymore

You’re making the mistake of assuming trustworthy actors who will be held to honesty by the forces of reality, when it’s very often dishonest actors trying to bend reality to their will.
If you want to see the future look at china. Economy is entirely monopolized, fake, and the companies are unsustainable. people know it’s fake, the government knows people know it’s fake, but they keep up the facade anyways and disappear any dissidents who can count too well. Only survivors are people who can keep their counting skills on the down low until they have enough to flee the country. (Little do they know they’re jumping out of the fire and into the frying pan)
It’s soviet style false reality sociopathy but in a capitalist presenting flavor rather than communist.
Total Sociopath Death btw.

>>106508587
"“Denoising and filtering are integral parts of a ray tracing pipeline. In a real-time setting, one can afford only a handful of rays per pixel, often randomly distributed. Consequently, the result is inherently noisy. By combining these sparse (but correct) per-pixel evaluations with spatiotemporal filters, variance is drastically reduced at the cost of increased bias, which is often a reasonable trade-off in real-time rendering. "
>Source: Nvidia

>>106508991
you dont even know what that means

>>106507584
>spend 200 billion dollars on r&d so someone can just steal it

>>106508997
not that anon but basically they're saying if you did proper path tracing (shooting a bajillion rays for each surface on screen), it would take way too long to compute the final color of each pixel with an acceptable quality. Like several minutes for a single frame. So instead you do a handful of samples each frame, and blend the result between frames (using temporal aka the old frame vs the current frame). The spatial part is referring to the concept that you don't just blindly blend between frames because there might be massive spatial discontinuities that would cause massive ghosting / incorrect results. There's merit to this approach and NVIDIA has gone balls deep into it but it's too expensive even with all these optimizations.

>>106508495
pure schizophrenia

>>106502277 (OP)
>Ray
>Path
what's going on here?

>>106502277 (OP)
every surface is now wet

>>106502277 (OP)
my 150 iq cost benefit analysis has determined that you are a fucking retard and the ratio this technology provides is UNTENABLE

>less than half the performance
>everything now looks wet and bright
>that'll be $5000 plus tip

>>106502277 (OP)
How much of that could be done with better prebake though?

>>106502277 (OP)
Once ray tracing is standard and does not impact framerate poorly, that's when I'll accept ray tracing. Today, even with a 5090 you've got to decide about the trade-off. Until then I'll keep my framerate high.

>>106502277 (OP)
ray tracing is good on mmo's and low pacing games
and thats alright
having RT on fps and such is just pure bs

there i said it

>>106510537
Yea, shoving puddles everywhere has been a jewish trick ever since d3d10 introduced tessellation.

The problem the yids have is simple: almost no real world materials reflect (in the case of gaytracing) or have enough complex geometry worth real time subdivision (in the case of tess).

Once the spamming puddles trick fails, they resort to comparing one shit open world engine with another, pretending like they've just reinvented GI except somehow its 10x worse by the generation

>>106502304
Trvke

njudea

>>106502304
>gaytracing is bad because it takes an immense toll on performance
exactly, either we're REGULARLY hitting 250-500 fps on 1080p on conventional 3D, then you could either make the "enthusiast" go 4K or RT, but as it stands, most games are still 60-180 fps on standard everything at 1080p with standard user and standard hardware.

>>106502277 (OP)
It doesn't look much better but ray tracing isn't bad, it's just the algorithms used to simulate ray tracing are too expensive. It shouldn't be anywhere near gaming right now since it doesn't bring any value.

>>106511756
Like my boomer ass just recently realized, all this FSRR/DLSRR/FCKMYASSCLE bullshit is basically just "run the game in 1080p and do some upscaling bullshit, because the technology still hasn't improved by much, that we need to cheat in order to create the illusion we're actually even at 4K and shit."

my. fucking. science.

>>106502304
More like less money to artists and programmers, more money to gigantic middleware system providers. Studios just want to hire braindead thirdies and shit out promo vids.

>>106508214
It's a different rendering method not a graphical effect. Literally the same as if they started writing games in pure python to save money, but no retail CPU could run them at 60 FPS + constant gc jank.

>>106502277 (OP)
>44 FPS
Your still image is a great simulation of the actual playing experience.

>>106511809
The entire IT industry, both hard- and software, is basically doing a VW-Abgasskandal.

And all you faggot normies keep buying their shit.

This "poor" thing became really popular when Indians started flooding the board.
Let me make it simple: Your culture was subjugated by the most retarded possible white people (the British) and you were set against each other's ankles like dogs to keep your society completely upended while they robbed you blind.
All of that is still echoing through your current culture, but you have to fight it.
Don't worry about the classes you see in front of you. Don't worry about becoming them or shaming them.
Just get the fuck over it.

>>106502304
>raytracing is bad because it takes an immense toll on performance while providing close to zero improvements in the game's actual enjoyment.
This 100% depends on how it is implemented.

Teardown is 100% raytraced, runs really well, doesn't even use RTX and the raytracing there really shines. Especially in photo mode, you couldn't such nice, dynamic lighting and smoke and x-ray without raytracing.

Raytracing is not a meme. RTX is.

>>106510024
Path tracing is a more advanced ray tracing. Eg path tracing can handle emissive surfaces properly.

>>106512119
Path tracing is nothing more than recursive ray tracing.
And Teardown runs on a voxel engine, that's obviously a special case that's not really relevant when talking about raytracing the average triple A Unreal engine slop

>>106502304
The last time I had fun with a graphical feature other than PT in Minecraft (only that game) was physx in borderlands 2
But we haven't seen much in the way of physics simulation of small objects in games since then

>>106512074
Read a history book, that's India since 5000 years, not just the British.
They literally have a caste system in place to be a factory the top-dog just takes over when they usurp last top-dog.

The Indian survival mechanism is to be too pathetic (and numerous) to eliminate, too disgusting to want to subjugate, and to rely on an upper caste member (or foreign invader) to tell them what to do in order to create some semblance of usefulness.

Oh, and the Brits were comparatively "civil" (more: utilitarian) as colonisers, there were worse, ones who had hatred and ideology mixed in as well.

>>106512119
Not everything can be a voxel game

>>106502277 (OP)
Your pic literally demonstrates why it's bad. Any early 2000s engine could do much better than the left side in terms of lighting and approximate the image on the right without expensive meme techniques. Now suddenly you need raytracing-capable hardware or you get lighting that looks like absolute garbage? What gives?

>>106502277 (OP)
Ray tracing as it is implemented right now is bad because 99% of current implementations look like shit for a stupid performance penalty without even making development easier.

Right doesn't even look better.

>>106512190
>Path tracing is nothing more than recursive ray tracing.
No, raytracing is generally recursive by default. A non recursive raytracing would be a raycasting.
Path tracing usually means that there is some more sophisticated Monte Carlo going on that is trying to find bidirectional "paths" between camera and potential light sources instead of just shooting rays from camera and when it they hit, you just do another trace for reflection and each point light source. Path tracing allows you to more realistically depict more complex lighting.
>obviously a special case that's not really relevant when talking about raytracing the average triple A Unreal engine slop
If you limit yourself only to bad implementations you will end up with only bad implementations. But this is not because raytracing is bad, it's because of the cherry picked sample.

>>106512230
But it should.

>>106502277 (OP)
G-guys? I don't understand... RTX is off in this screenshot and there's still light bouncing around and coloring everything in funny shades. How is this possible??? It should be pitch black except for a few blotches.

>>106512542
don't worry about it

>>106512698
Not enough pink color bleed. RTX wins again.

>>106502277 (OP)
Your software is shit.