Thread 107050908

No way people are actually upset over inverted color notepad, right? Being unwilling and unable to use a text-box is just a meme, right?

>>107050908 (OP)
You underestimate how helpless and paralyzed most people are.

It's not a lack of being able to learn it but more of a lack of or rather a full on mental-block regarding "HACKER H4XX0R MATRIX SCROLLING TEXT" stuff. When in reality a terminal is the most simple way of doing things. Wanna update? Just do sudo whatever update. That's it. That's the most most people are going to need on linux.

>>107050908 (OP)
Nobody gives a fuck about your terminal. It requires memorizing useless shit that can be done by mouse and using eyes is easier to remember than words

>>107050908 (OP)
BAT is one of the worst things I have ever seen so it's no wonder people don't use it. Bash on the other hand appears in my wet dreams

>>107050908 (OP)
>inverted color notepad
Those faggots at Apple and GNOME made their terminals black on white by default to make them less scary if a normalfag was to open one by accident.

Terminals are for people too dumb to write code who still want to feel like haxors so they memorize a couple of commands.
The graphical user interface should handle installing and other such basic tasks. The terminal of course does have some use cases(which is why even Windows will never drop it) but the principle of good design mandates these are rare as they possibly can be.

>>107050988
>Open browser
>Google.com (bing or ddg if your woke)
>"VLC download"
>Scroll pass sponsored results
>Open download page
>Find .exe and download
>Navigate to download folder (you don't just download to your desktop, right anon?)
>Double click and install
So much better than
>Ctrl+alt+t to open bash
>"sudo apt install vlc"
>"Y" (to confirm)

I forgot how to wipe my ass memorizing all this

>>107051029
>I forgot how to wipe my ass
Yeah we know, everyone can smell you sharting in your pants

>>107051029
>alt+enter
>"pacman -S vlc"
"y"
took me 15 seconds took you at least 1 min

>>107050908 (OP)
Browns can't handle the command line.

Windows and macOS have conditioned people to think that the terminal popping up means that something is wrong.
You have to understand that most people, even most programmers, don't have anything more than a surface level understanding of how a computer works, let alone an operating system. Their mental model doesn't allow them to see that the terminal and GUIs are both just poking the OS with system calls.

Also doesn't help that powershell/batch is ass >>107050998

>>107050988
It's not so much the memorization that's the issue but the fact that without prior knowledge on how it works you'd have 0 fucking idea how to do anything in it, and people won't bother looking up a tutorial on the internet just to use it when the GUI already works.

>>107051052
>"My several characters are less challenging to type than your dozen characters by notable degrees"
It's your hill, feel free to die on it.

>>107051074
this
If you see a terminal pop up in windows/macOS that is a sign of spyware or malware

>>107051136
>windows
>5+ clicks
>11 keys
>1 scroll
>a whole lot of effort
Arch
>14 keys
>done
"Harder"
If you want to be a autistic retard please do it somewhere else

>>107050988
This.
Microsoft figured out ages ago that having GUI apps for even basic tasks leads to increased productivity and greater comfort for normie users, which has allowed them to dominate the OS market for decades. Meanwhile Linux nerds still insist on typing obscure commands on text-mode screens with arguments they themselves can't even memorize properly like it's the 1970s. Even after both Google and Apple showed that you can achieve the same level of success on other platforms with Linux/Unix as a base just by mandating a fixed UI environment for developers to build on.

I'm not scared of terminals. The truth is that most terminals are total garbage out of the box.
No autocompletion.
No popup which shows what that program or command is or where it is.
No colors.
Ugly font.
No beeps. Sound is extremely important. Studies have found that when you add audio ques to excel productivity increases up to as much as 3x (!).
Fucking 1D interface in a world with 3D graphics cheaply available.
No or barely any mouse support.
Retarded ass navigation.
No documentation.

>>107051217
>no documentation
one word: man

>>107050908 (OP)
Are people afraid of punch cards?

No way people are actually upset over some paper with holes in it, right? Being unwilling and unable to use a hole punch is just a meme, right?

>>107051202
Did my lack of /s at the end of my post confuse you? I'm clearly taking the piss out of UI-only fags. Then I compared apt to pacman, because you were attacking a windows user that didn't exist

>>107051263
>attack a windows user that didn't exist
Lies your a windows user I can smell it form the dried up cum in your pants

>>107050908 (OP)
Terminals are Ok, the problem is UNIX

Are people afraid of firepits?

No way people are actually upset over some burning wood, right? Being unwilling and unable to use a fire s just a meme, right?

>>107050908 (OP)
>press ctrl+v
>it writes ^V
buggy trash

>>107050908 (OP)
>do the standard "t-theyre afraid of us, not disgusted by us, h-honest" cope that all degenerates pull
And then freetards wonder why they get called faggots and trannies.
For the record, your interface is shit, and a better option was invented 50 years ago.

I could use the terminal if I wanted. But I don't want to. GUI is much more intuitive and comfortable. And people like me are the vast majority.

>>107050908 (OP)
No, but terminals are afraid of mistypinging.

>this whole thread
holy shit, I'd understand if we were on /v/, but on /g/? fucking pathetic

>>107050908 (OP)
Using a terminal feels about as smooth as falling down the stairs with leg calipers compared to double clicking a button

>>107050908 (OP)
People fear what they don't understand.

>>107051214
True, except when it comes to open source, terminal applications are much more accessible for novice coders to modify and improve. The entirety of the code serves the task, whereas the GUI adds a whole other layer of complexity to just displaying that function in a friendlier way.

>>107051239
Some man pages are impenetrable and needlessly complicated while not even covering some functions of a program. Every man page should have an examples section.

>>107051871
people just don't like tedious things

>>107051072
This
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikod2fONH0Q
fully evolved humans have no issue with CLI, it's the most direct way to control your computer

>>107051252
I would unironically use punch cards if I could reliably input commands to my computer with them and spit them out of a punch card printer. Too bad punch cards are expensive as fuck and unreliable, because all the hardware is like 60 years old or more.

>>107050908 (OP)
>i don't know what it is, so it scares me
>i might just blow up my computer if I do something

If you just consider the following: For most people computers are magic. Literal magic.
And they are afraid that if things don't go exactly the way it always did, it will go completely haywire.

Just the same way if a magic spell doesn't go the way it always does, it might just spawn demons or open a portal to the Nether and bad stuff happens.

>>107050908 (OP)
>>107050910
>>107051074

oh no no no CLI wizard bros how so we cope with this?
so many hours days weeks wasted to learn the heckin command line meanwhile normies have conversations with AI powered terminals

there is nothing about terminals that is more "under the hood" than GUI interfaces. both of them are the same level of abstraction. shells like bash are just as arbitrary as GUI. so i dont understand what about the terminal is supposed to be better. i suppose it can be more convenient sometimes, but not often.

>>107051239
>man
doesnt work on my machine

>>107050908 (OP)
>open terminal
>type a command wrong
>the dog dies
This is why I don't use it anymore.

>>107051027
>Terminals are for people too dumb to write code who still want to feel like haxors so they memorize a couple of commands.
unironically this. You can tell when lintroons complain about having to set environment variables on windows as if it was a big hurdle.

>>107051027
Linux is a garbage OS
>2025
>no first class GUI toolkit
That's why loonixtards need to use the terminal. If it was Windows even 20 years ago they would just make a quick GUI in visual studio to do everything.

>>107051074
>Their mental model doesn't allow them to see that the terminal and GUIs are both just poking the OS with system calls.
Anon I think that's one of the base requirements into being a desktop application programmer.

>>107050908 (OP)
They just haven't used Warp. They'd love it otherwise.

>>107050988
This
>>107051029
Why is "sudo apt" intuitive or even semantically relevant to the end user? LOOKING at the web page is simply more accessible.

>>107051029
>>"Y" (to confirm)
Don't need to. Y is the default option so you can just press enter.

>>107050908 (OP)
You think normal people have any idea what the fuck any of this means?

>>107051027
>Terminals are for people too dumb to write code who still want to feel like haxors so they memorize a couple of commands.
I had a friend who really wanted to write code but he struggled hard with basic concepts. On the other hand he picked up the Linux terminal easily and was an expert at configuring it, especially the obscure stuff.
Similarly I had a very experienced and talented software engineer coworker who never used the terminal for anything, not even Git (he used TortoiseGit).
Personally I use the terminal a bit but I don't care to memorize a bunch of obscure arbitrary nonsense, and I write C++ and have no trouble with the obscure C++ features and quirks.

>>107051029
thing is even as an experienced linux user you're not going to know the package name unless you've done it before
you should've brought up a flathub client like bazaar as an example, it's faster and safer than downloading shit on linux

>>107051029
thing is even as an experienced linux user you're not going to know the package name unless you've done it before
you should've brought up a flathub client like bazaar as an example, it's faster and safer than downloading shit by waddling through websites on windows

>>107050908 (OP)
Normies are because pretty much every single one of them has been tricked at one point (probably by people on this very board) to delete their entire filesystem via the terminal as a joke.

>>107050988
Well anon, I don't doubt that you have trouble remembering words.

>>107050908 (OP)
I think their terminals just look a bit boring.
>>107051074
It feels weird considering I remember using the command prompt/terminal being normal on Windows until you got to XP or so. Guess all those people who started out with MS-DOS just got replaced down the line and so people never absorbed that same culture.

>>107050908 (OP)
People aren’t afraid of terminals people are annoyed that basic functionally doesn’t have a simple competent UI because they want to do real work on their computer instead of putting work into their computer.

They would also be much more willing to learn the terminal if the commands weren’t so needlessly autistic and esoteric.

They would also be willing to learn if there was a singular cohesive place to learn instead of being told to “read documentation” (a poorly formatted information dump that assumes you already know what you’re looking for).

You're all just lazy boomer/zoomer faggots who don't want to learn what words mean. Just admit it and quit the cope circle jerk.

>>107054410
>They would also be much more willing to learn the terminal if the commands weren’t so needlessly autistic and esoteric.
>echo
Greek nimph that repeats letters
>pwd
Print Working Directory
>ls
List ...S?
>grep
g/re/p, which stands for "global search for a regular expression and print?
> command -x ,--x ,-xy ,-yx ....
Weird combination of flags.
> grub
Im not even gonna list how retarded that is
>bash
Somehow more cryptic than pure c.

Moving a folder in the terminal is retarded as fuck since we invented mouses and GUI's. What is the point other than to look good to other geeks?

>>107056594
Not about being lazy, it's about having limited memory capacity. There's only so much I can keep in my active memory at once and terminal commands are low priority.

>>107050908 (OP)
ppl hate reading
they'll do anything even tolerate all seeing surveillance to see shiny doodads instead of chicken scratch even once

>>107050908 (OP)
People will do everything in their fucking power to avoid reading for some stupid reason.
They see a window of text and start shitting themselves in hatred, trying all sorts of retarded workarounds, when if they just read what it fucking said it'd be over with in a few seconds.

>>107050998
Honestly, there are things in cmd that I still don't know how to do correctly and if you read some of the random PowerShell Core 6.x to 7.x, the M$ fuckers find random command line serialization bugs for random shit tools.

Ultimately most these problems stem from one very obvious design flaw: Windows passes around a "command line" instead of argv.

>>107050908 (OP)
It ruins their power fantasy of being a competent computer user, basically a midwit filter. Actual ultra normies don't sacrifice a thought to it.

>>107050908 (OP)
Normalfags? Yes, they are afraid of using or seeing a terminal and especially if there’s a long string of text quickly flying by as it does its scripting task.

>>107050908 (OP)
people are scared because the terminal on windows fucking sucks ass

>>107052067
You must be fucking retarded then. You can't imagine how typing exactly the thing you want to happen is way faster and more efficient than hunting and clicking on buttons and through multiple menus like an imbecile? You don't see how being able to script repetitve actions is useful with bash?

>>107052487
Setting env variables in windows is faggot tier. On Linux you literally only need to type a few characters and its set.

>>107050908 (OP)
This debate was solved forty years ago when Apple released the Macintosh and it was a roaring success.

Anyone who's like "but it's le easy just type soodoo" is outing themselves as a NEET who has never worked with normal people in their life.

If you don't want to download .exes then have a good-looking app store style graphical manager.

>>107054269
You can search package repos from the command line retard.

>>107051072
>>107051903
one simple solution

>>107050908 (OP)
ms-dos made genX and older millenials hate the CLI, and Microsoft never did anything to actually improve that situation. And that's the whole point, when people say they hate the terminal they mean that they hate cmd and powershell (and not CLI but they also hate any system tool that is not Settings in Windows). The moment someone is convinced that the bash in any Linux distro is easier and better than the cmd, powershell and all the Windows system tools combined, they stop hating the CLI.

>>107050908 (OP)
you have to understand, that in most cases (myself included) every application, website, services or extension of service we build MUST NOT REQUIRE ANY BRAINPOWER and even the stupidest disabled person must be able to use it

>anon make sure the terminal does not pop up or make the error message like "oopsie youre doing great sweety, the crash was our fault"

the amount of interns with macbooks im le epic tech geek penises that shrink and shrivel at the thought of a CLI is massive

>>107059382
jesus monkeynuts go back to plebbit, please, for the love of allah and whatever being is up there.

>>107050908 (OP)
the average zoomer literally doesn't even know how to work on devices that don't have touchscreens. If you showed them a terminal they would probably shit themselves and die on the spot.

It is so, SO much worse than you are imagining anon. The reason windows 11 looks like dogshit and has so many useful features obfuscated behind extra pointless dialog boxes is because the average user does not understand how their computer works on even a fundamental level and requires their hand to be held at literally every step of the process.

>>107051904
I learned programming on HP Basic Mark Sense cards - you marked them up with a HB pencil. Card reader was connected to a DEC PDP12 mini

>>107050908 (OP)
> PROOF OF TERMINAL SUPREMACY
Let's say you have a problem and you solve it inside the GUI
> move your mouse over here
> double click this
> open that
> right click this other thing and select whatever
Problem solved. Great.
But now you need to do it again.
No problem
> move your mouse over here
> double click this
> open that
> right click this other thing and select whatever
Problem solved again. Great.
But now you need to do it every time your computer boots. Or how about you need everyone in the office to do it three times a day? Or maybe you need grandma to do it.
Suddenly the GUI doesn't sound so great. Every problem requires a recipe which on the surface looks easy to follow, but will inevitably end up being bungled by someone because the average person is stupid, including the person writing the recipe.

That's why the terminal is king. Just write a script that does the 5 steps in CLI. Need to solve that problem on another computer? Just copy that script to the computer and have the end user double click it in the GUI, or add it as a cronjob.
That's why Powershell exists. Because GUI is for retards and pencil pushers. Actual system maintenance requires CLI and scripting.
It's also why things like reproducible builds (installing the exact same thing on 100 computers at once) isn't done by a GUI recipe, but by text files that are easy to edit and distribute.

So it's settled. The terminal is king. If you don't understand that, it's because you're serf that somebody got paid to baby with a GUI interface so you can do your email job.

>>107061793
>>107050908 (OP) (OP)
> PROOF OF TERMINAL SUPREMACY
Let's say you have a problem and you solve it inside the GUI
> move your mouse over here
> double click this
> open that
> right click this other thing and select whatever
Problem solved. Great.
But now you need to do it again.
No problem
> move your mouse over here
> double click this
> open that
> right click this other thing and select whatever
Problem solved again. Great.
But now you need to do it every time your computer boots. Or how about you need everyone in the office to do it three times a day? Or maybe you need grandma to do it.
Suddenly the GUI doesn't sound so great. Every problem requires a recipe which on the surface looks easy to follow, but will inevitably end up being bungled by someone because the average person is stupid, including the person writing the recipe.

That's why the terminal is king. Just write a script that does the 5 steps in CLI. Need to solve that problem on another computer? Just copy that script to the computer and have the end user double click it in the GUI, or add it as a cronjob.
That's why Powershell exists. Because GUI is for retards and pencil pushers. Actual system maintenance requires CLI and scripting.
It's also why things like reproducible builds (installing the exact same thing on 100 computers at once) isn't done by a GUI recipe, but by text files that are easy to edit and distribute.

So it's settled. The terminal is king. If you don't understand that, it's because you're serf that somebody got paid to baby with a GUI interface so you can do your email job.

>>107050908 (OP)
You're a sperg. You're too stupid to understand the normalfag.
>>107054313
Another retard unable to understand this isn't about us.

>Are people afraid of terminals?

only if their condition is contagious.

>>107051214
Nope. Microsoft's domination of the market was a matter of place and time. Nothing to do with the actual features. Everything to do with the fact that they were the first commercial OS to be mass adopted and were the only option at the time due to the Unix legal issues. Only a shill would pretend that Microsoft got where they are from fair and meritocratic competition in the marketplace.

>>107051214
You also assert a false dichotomy as if mac and windows don't have and require the cli for advanced tasks.

>>107062122
You're a clueless faggot. Stop posting.

>>107062143
Nah. Any company could have Microsoft's place currently. Just because of the effort that it would take to train people on a different ecosystem. That's it. If it cost less for all of the corps to coordinate and develop free linux software to do these tasks than it costs to re-train all of their employees, Windows would cease to exist.

>>107050908 (OP)
yes. the incompetent fear them. it is especially stupid when you consider folks want to use AI for routine tasks. instead of a prompt just issue a few commands! duh.

>>107061820
>But now you need to do it every time your computer boots. Or how about you need everyone in the office to do it three times a day?
No problem
> press the "create macro" button
> move your mouse over here
> double click this
> open that
> right click this other thing and select whatever
> press the macro button again
> save the macro with a name and a keyboard shortcut
Suddenly the terminal doesn't sound so great.

>>107051932
>hallucinates and types sudo rm -rf /*
Heh, nothing personnel, kid.

>>107051074
My uni went pretty deep in their OS class. They went over stuff like segmentation, paging, multitasking, scheduling, ISRs, all that stuff. Hell i think uC was also covered. Pretty sure it's a standard part of the curriculum for an ABET CS program, unless you're a jeet. No idea what they teach over there. Seemingly nothing.

>zoomers: issuing commands to my OS using words? wtf im going insane wtf is this
>also zoomers: oh the minecraft command line? this shit be bussing fr fr I bet boomers cant even do shit like /noclip or /killall on this mf like we can

>>107062663
this has to be bait

>>107051217
>No autocompletion.
press TAB once or twice
>No popup which shows what that program or command is or where it is.
type and which are your friends (in bash)
>No colors.
almost every terminal emulator as well as tty has color support
>Ugly font.
change it
>No beeps. Sound is extremely important.
I can tell you're full of shit because every time I'm on a new install I get annoyed by the audible bell.
>Fucking 1D interface in a world with 3D graphics cheaply available.
compiz was 3D
>No or barely any mouse support.
>Retarded ass navigation.
you can use your scroll wheel in the terminal y'know
>No documentation.
--help

>>107051217
Literally all of those are false or can be changed.
Except maybe documentation, some programs are shit at that. That's just a computer thing however.

>>107051774
there's very few of us left, anon. i'm past being surprised

If you're going to make a terminal program, fine, but make the interface (command line arguments or whatever) discoverable without the user having to look on StackOverflow for basic usage information.
One way:
no args -> show a few lines of explanation of what the program is and how to use it and how to request more help
more help (/? or -h or --h or something they can guess) -> more detailed information including examples
Always show examples. Nobody wants to waste time guessing what order the arguments are supposed to go in and whether the arguments need to be smushed together or separated or in quotes or whatever bullshit limitations result from your limited ability to write a parser properly.

>>107051871
I understand it.
It’s just a pain in the ass.

I got oh my posh and ffmpeg working on my windows powershell. I can even ssh my server in my living room to move copies of rush hour 2 between different folders. Try to beat that, nerds.

>>107050908 (OP)
I don't hate terminals. I just don't wanna type the same shit over and over. I played enough mavis beacon. I don't need to be playing it to do basic shit on my environment setup.

>>107050908 (OP)
>inverted color notepad,
its not, isnt that ubuntu terminal? ubuntu terminal isnt 'notepad'. you can run a TUI text editor on it but it isnt one
>>107050908 (OP)
>Being unwilling and unable to use a text-box is just a meme, right?
everyone uses text boxes

>>107051774
>us
>we
non existent and never was.
Everything was always a means to an end and that end has changed.

>>107064685
i used to ssh into my tv on the wall from my laptop on the couch and have a fuzzy search menu that would start streaming a torrent for any movie i wanted (hopefully it had seeds)

>>107050908 (OP)
because default terminal commands are stupid. nobody should be using rm, just use trash since its undo able. same for other commands that cause undoable damage and don't prompt the user beforehand
>inb4 git gud
yeah thats why people dont use them