Thread 107096959

Will Jai be what C++ wanted to be? It seems to have a lot of hype, and one of the greatest technical minds of several generations is working on it.

>>107096959 (OP)
C++ wanted to be C# + AOT but it failed miserably.

>>107096959 (OP)
even the shittiest llvm frontend is 10000x better than this school project

>>107096959 (OP)
>and one of the greatest technical minds of several generations is working on it
oh really? who? I thought it was just john blows that worked on it.

>>107097004
>school project
>one of the fastest, cleanest languages ever developed
>school project

>>107096959 (OP)
Why has he still not released any preview?

>>107097015
Jonathan Blow is who you mean, and yes he's pretty widely regarded as one of the top programmers in the world now. Watch the Jai demo:
https://youtu.be/IdpD5QIVOKQ

Fast language for fast minds.

>>107097022
It's literally vaporware. Post code or stop posting.

>>107097057
>and yes he's pretty widely regarded as one of the top programmers in the world now
by not a single person alive
>Watch the Jai demo:
no, i don't think i will

>>107097084
The entire demo is filled with code examples.

>>107097325
Then you're screwing yourself. And yes, Jonathan Blow is extremely well regarded, he's on a tier with anyone. He developed one of the cleanest, fastest languages in the world in his spare time, that sort of talent doesn't grow on trees.

>>107097477
He has not released anything and thus it could all be made up

>>107097528
The language is currently being used in a gated preview which has produced a lot of praise.

>>107097022
>fastest
meaningless
>cleanest
meaningless

>>107097571
What have you worked on? What have you shipped?

>>107096959 (OP)
Thanks but I'm sticking with C++.

>>107096975
C# can be up to an order of magnitude slower than C++ doing vector math. C# is not made for doing real work. If I wanted a slow, high level language I would use something like Ocaml or even F# because at least they are nice to use unlike the OOP hellscape of C#.

>>107096959 (OP)
>Jai
>lot of hype
where?

>>107097599
Nta, but why is that relevant?

>>107097739
Jai has the potential to be faster than C++ or even C

>>107096959 (OP)
>String ! class_name
language trannies will never have taste for syntax, what the fuck is this, why are you screaming at me
>String!
???
fucking retard

>>107096959 (OP)
No it will not be anything worth a damn.

>>107096959 (OP)
>One of the greatest technical minds
Decent bait

>>107097777
Because it's important to know who is saying it "won't be anything worth a damn", productive people who know the topic, or fake job work from home Gamer types who think they know something because they ran netstat once. Everyone technically inclined is talking about Jai and the talk is "it's fast, it's good", so who are these other people?

>>107097044
The compiler and everything leaked a few months ago. Its pretty meme tier desu

>>107098261
still more stable than r*st

>>107098261
Jai keeps C’s low-level control but adds modern ergonomics, metaprogramming, and tooling that cut boilerplate and catch more mistakes at compile time. The meme is OOP.

>String ! class_name;
dropped

I mean, sure, come up with a cliche 90s-esque name for the language, but surely, try not to make it so try hard surely.

Be witty at least call it BigNiggerRapeBuckBroken++

>>107096959 (OP)
C++ wasn't a product taht "wanted to be" anything
that's not how it emerged

>>107098942
It wanted to be an improvement to C and to the ability to model the world.

>>107098885
>modern ergonomics
just use c++
>metaprogramming
just use c++ with codegen scripts
>tooling
c++ has mature tooling

>>107099061
Handwaving. “Just use C++” concedes the point. To mimic Jai you stack libraries, templates, build files, and generators. More surfaces. More failure modes. Less checking where it matters.

In Jai, compile time is code you write in the language. It can read inputs, inspect real types, and insert functions into the same unit the optimizer sees. One toolchain. One set of errors. In C++, codegen runs outside the compiler and emits text. The compiler then guesses at your intent. When it breaks you debug the generator, the emitted code, and the build graph. That drag is the cost you are ignoring.

That code looks like golang

I'm quite eager to try it out.
Rust as a concept appeals to me but the syntax and featureset make it a non-starter in my book. Beyond that the tooling / LLVM isn't appealing. Rust and C++ projects take an eternity to build and produce a ton of intermediate garbage, enough that I'd be concerned doing rapid development on an SSD.

Jai seems a little more sensible in these regards.
The syntax isn't the worst thing I've ever seen, it has some convenience features but doesn't try to go C++ style of incorporating everything. I know at some point (maybe even still) it depends on LLVM but his demos where he builds projects from scratch is enough evidence for me to be interested.

Could be an interesting systems language for performance critical stuff.
But honestly most of the software I write is NOT performance critical and I very much enjoy the convenience of not having to manually manage memory.
But if I needed to do anything related to graphics I'd probably consider using this for it.

>>107099178
NTA, but just use Nim. Nim has compile time code, can compile C++ code, and most importantly, is downloadable today, not in 2070.

>>107099306
Meant Zig. Nim is shit.

>>107099312
Have you tried Nig? It's the best of Nim and Zig rolled into one nigger.

Nig is the niggest niggerlicious programming languages since bucks were broken.

>>107099347
It do be like that

Jai honestly seems like the future.

>>107099940
So, basically, it's black.

Jai is a gai name for a programming language.

How about Bumfuk?

>>107099306
Nim has can modify the AST at compile time, chud.

>>107100427
And it's not a good as it's successor, Nig.

>>107096959 (OP)
>Part_Member
>class_name
>favorite_color
>current_level
subtle

Why do you guys always need to hop to another language? What do you do that requires new languages?

>>107097477
gay-coded post

>>107100729
kek

>>107096959 (OP)
so he is one of those people who completely misunderstood what criticism of bad syntax highlighting was all about?
not highlighting strings and constants is crazy

he is already highlighting comments so he does not have any ground to stand on in regards to
>highlighting is pontless

Nothing beats C++

>>107096959 (OP)
>Jai
I remember when he first started working on this. There wasn't really anything like it. Now there's Zig, Odin, Hare, ect.. but Jai is still in "closed beta".

>>107100831
any reason jai is not open source other than pride?

BUY AN AD

>>107100857
Because OP is a shill

>>107100857
So he can make big changes easily and doesn't have to deal with redditors

Just making a successful presentation with live debugging and problem solving like he just did is something 99% of /g/ wouldn't be able to do.

>>107096959 (OP)
>>107097022
>>107097057
>>107097477
I know it's easy to rile up low IQ users but could we ever have a thread about Jai that isn't shitposting?

>>107100972
nobody here knows anything

>>107102651
It's not even that, even if you're an expert it will be difficult to make such presentation unless you're good with presentations.

>>107096959 (OP)
nothing is replacing c/c++

it doesn't matter how fast or whatever the new hotness is, market trends aren't going to start teaching some new language that won't help their already struggling graduates get a job.

even if its half as fast as anyone makes it out to be, there's always something faster until you just start writing manual asm. thats the problem a lot of the fanboys here seem to not understand. for example, ada with the occasional asm will always be the gold standard for airplanes, nothing is going to change that it's been that way too long and changing is the most dangerous shit known to man because you instantly lose legacy code of over 20 years.

tl;dr
if jai ever does release, it will be just like haskell. it was fun to play with, but its job market share and usability in the work force will be sub 1%

the only languages in danger are c#/java. javas portability is already dead, its basically used on phones and legacy web shit that started with it, with many migrating to the .net umbrella/python/node. Unfortunately.. node isn't going anywhere either. The majority of job market is filled with things where an extra 10-100ms means fucking nothing, so languages like javascript and python will slowly take over. C# will be kept afloat by how usable it is on azure.

thanks for coming to my ted talk

>>107097057
>yes he's pretty widely regarded as one of the top programmers in the world now.
he's not that good
What are his achievements?

>>107103277
Creating one of the fastest and most modern languages in his spare time for one thing.

>>107097057
he's retarded
>jai is non-fp but went to fp conference
>emacs is not fp, but decided to use it for fp appropriation
>C++ doesn't have it's own build system, and has to use makefile, therefore I must shit out jai totally necessary
I will continue watching the video and report more of his retardations

>>107099178
static reflection is coming in c++26 and its looking very promising. in my ideal world after that stabalizes, they should make std2 completely from scratch using modules and static reflection and just freeze the STL

>>107103280
>Creating one of the fastest
That would be C
> most modern languages
That would arguably goes to other languages, depending on what "modern" means to you. To me
> idris
> f*
> austral
> Val, Hylo, mojo

better describes what a modern takes on programming should be

>>107103327
>compares high-level language like lisp to turing machine, to make a point that lisp is shit

>>107103280
> Creating one of the fastest and most modern languages in his spare time for one thing.
And yet still inferior to LISP/CLOS, Dylan and Pharo

>>107103400
>austral
is this ATS-lite?

>>107096959 (OP)
c++ is about optional abstraction, concurrency (which Stroustrup's phd thesis was about) and typing

>>107103544
They are both based on linear type iirc, so in a way you can say that
ATS was also pretty good if my memory serves me right

You joke but he is literally 100x smarter than Drew Default so almost nearing the average person

>>107105985
talk is cheap show compiler source

is this a case of the scooby doo meme where they pull of the jai-mask
only to reveal llvm/clang

>>107106802
Jai doesn't use LLVM though? You can still use LLVM but the x64 backend works fine.

t. using the leaked compiler for a project

>>107097022
if the language is as clean as jai claim, then he have dropped sources for it's compiler.

also clean means nothing, when people haven been doing C for 50+ year at this point. try convincing a js/python dev to switch to another language because their language is unclean and has 1000+ ways of expressing the same statement.

>>107107514
>t. using the leaked compiler for a project
Where does one source such things?

>>107109142
https://desuarchive.org/g/search/text/jai-beta-2-009.zip/

>>107107514
how do you open these .bin files?

>>107096959 (OP)
The only reason people hate on C++ these days is because LLMs can't manage pointers.

>>107109811
Thanks for finding them. It says right in the post: concatenate them and then rename them to a zip file.

>>107099061
look at what they need to mimic a fraction of his power

>>107097470
What the fuck is this formatting? lmao

>>107096959 (OP)
don't care still just using c++

>>107097057
>he's pretty widely regarded as one of the top programmers in the world
By his / primagens jewtube cult?

>>107110059
>concatenate them and then rename them to a zip file.

I used cat and it didn't work.

For anyone who had the same issue, use this:
dd if=1.bin of=jai.zip bs=1M conv=notrunc
dd if=2.bin of=jai.zip bs=1M oflag=append conv=notrunc

Then use 7z x jai.zip.

by the time Jai arrives it will be irrelevant

>>107096959 (OP)
First you should know that 99% of the people on this board reinstall Linux just to change their window manager because they have no comprehension of technology. They cannot program either.

>>107103201
Java will be the COBOL of the future
people will move on but legacy codebases will remain around

>>107112469
cat works fine

cat 3gm8im.bin c223es.bin > jai.zip

unzip jai.zip

>>107100796
C++ is eternal.

>>107097004
From your post, I know for a fact that you regularly take random objects in your home and try to force them into your anus/colon.

>>107112497
at least the java code that ends up like that can just remain an internally hosted api only hittable from the new apis being written on top of it

what the fuck can we do with cobol at all

>>107103201
I think new people are increasingly tired to C and C++. I don't want to write C++ because it's a clusterfuck of a language and as much as I admire C and C programmers, I don't want to use it because I hate dealing with header files and the atrocious build systems of that language. It's also missing some rather standard functionality that most programmers want as default in their language.

Many people are desperate for the next generation of these systems level languages. Rust has already carved a little space for itself for example.

does he have a chinese peptide dealer yet, or can he no longer afford one?

>>107096959 (OP)
>one of the greatest technical minds of several generations
we are reaching levels of ignorance that shouldn't be possible
>is working on it.
Not true, he doesn't have enough money since Braid Anniversary Edition flopped hard.

>>107097544
>people that are cherry-picked to use the language are praising it
Impressive. You could talk about technical feats, about parts of the language you've seen that are good, about why it's better than C++ or Rust or any other language, but no, you chose... This?

I was excited about jai until I tried odin and realized it already does everything I want so what do I need jai for? The metaprogramming AST stuff seems cool but I’m fine just doing metaprogramming the old fashioned way.

>>107103544
>is this ATS-lite?
If by lite you mean lite lite lite, then yes.