Thread 17751223

They're real. Accept that.

The tablets of Thoth? of course they are, but they're meant to be emerald not gold

>>17751223 (OP)
We have more evidence of the Golden Plates and the Book of Mormon than we do of the Gospels. Fortunately, they serve as a witness or ratification of the Gospels.

https://youtu.be/fIBkbO7Qtsw?si=ltJ-xSzhaHD2l0ox&t=504

>>17751223 (OP)
Can I see them? I’ll bring my own special seeing hat

1 Nephi
2 Nephi
Jacob
Enos
Jarom
Omni
W. Mormon
Mosiah
1 Alma
2 Alma
Helaman
Nephi
Mormon
Ether
Moroni

>>17751223 (OP)
Ok I accept that. Now what?

>>17751557
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/alma/32?lang=eng
Receive the Holy Ghost

>>17751563
Didn't click, sorry. If you can't sell me on your religion in your own words then I don't care. May as well have posted nothing

>>17751574
That isn't a hyperlink

>>17751574
see
>>17751539

>>17751574
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/article/articles-of-faith
Repent and believe the Gospel.

>>17751223 (OP)
As testified by Joseph Smith's family and friends, conveniently. Literally the Seymour episode from the Sneedsons
>May I see them?
>...No

>>17751223 (OP)
No you can't see them
Some time passes
You see...the angel took them back after I finished and finalized the translation
Oh...so that's how it's gonna be

I love how Mormons try to argue "Jesus tried to spread the Mormon gospel, but it got forgotten a bunch of times lmao". Like, come on. If the OT managed to survive into translation, so could Mormon bullshit.

>>17751594
If I was going to follow a Jewish religion, why would I follow the heresy of the Jewish religion created by a womanizer that was killed by the chuds that followed him and theocratized by a pedophile? I'd rather convert to the "Enjoy Hell" poster's brand of Christcuckery at that point.

>>17751223 (OP)
Mormon and Scientologist are legit psycho. Just a cult for low iq and disenfranchised desert dwelling people.

What's funny is that Mormons are so unaware that they don't realize that they are cult freaks, and I will legit do anything to keep them away. I prefer Jews to mormans.

T. New Englander

Keep all that Schizo retardation away from me

Ps. I guess some Mormon woman are hot.

>>17751612
Enjoy Hell

>>17751615
Mormons should be seen more sympathetically, because many are indoctrinated at a young age and get raised in the cult. Scientology doesn't really have an excuse, because that's some Tom Cruise type of Hollywood bullshit that anybody should be able to see through.

>>17751223 (OP)
>god write us a book made of GOLD
extremely American religion

>>17751223 (OP)
>They're real
Where's proof?

>>17751223 (OP)
How does one carry around a 200lb brick of gold? Or rather, how does one use a 200lb brick of gold as a book to read and preach from?
Joseph smith wrapped a red brick in tin foil and put it in a bag no one was allowed to look into. This wasn’t his first time conning people. He was a “treasure digger” with a looking stone prior to this.

Also, for the Mormons; if the BoM was originally a written work, and not simply J Smith’s verbal string of consciousness as he spoke with his face in the hat, why do his other “translated” works have an average verse length HALF that of the Book of Mormon?

>>17751615
>>17751622
Mormonism and scientology have nothing to do with each other, and nothing in common. When you say things like this it only discredits you as being ignorant of not one but two religions.
>>17751689
Pure gold plates would be too soft to hold engraving well. An alloy of gold and copper called "tumbaga," known in Mesoamerica, would suit both the appearance and weight of the plates. The plates were not a solid block of gold, but a set of page-like leaves, which reduces the weight by about 50%.
The witnesses all agree that they weighed around 60 pounds.
"I was permitted to lift them. . . . They weighed about sixty pounds according to the best of my judgement." —William Smith
"I . . . judged them to have weighed about sixty pounds."—William Smith
"They were much heavier than a stone, and very much heavier than wood. . . . As near as I could tell, about sixty pounds."—William Smith
"I hefted the plates, and I knew from the heft that they were lead or gold." —Martin Harris
"My daughter said, they were about as much as she could lift. They were now in the glass-box, and my wife said they were very heavy. They both lifted them." —Martin Harris
"I moved them from place to place on the table, as it was necessary in doing my work." —Emma Smith
Joseph's sister Catherine, while she was dusting in the room where he had been translating, "hefted those plates [which were covered with a cloth] and found them very heavy." —H. S. Salisbury, paraphrasing Catherine Smith Salisbury

Each of the pages was about the thickness of tin.
"of the thickness of tin" - Oliver Cowdery
"of the thickness of plates of tin" —Martin Harris
"about as thick as parchment" — David Whitmer
"[We] could raise the leaves this way (raising a few leaves of the Bible before him)." — William Smith
"They seemed to be pliable like thick paper, and would rustle with a metalic [sic] sound when the edges were moved by the thumb, as one does sosometimes thumb the edges of a book." — Emma Smith

>>17751250
The Angel Moroni calls it New Hill Cumorah.

YHWH Allah
(LORD God)

>>17751812
>Mormonism and scientology have nothing to do with each other, and nothing in common
They're both cults risen from heretical fiction. They have more in common than you know.

Isn't the fact the LDS church presents it as a codex an anachronism and evidence it's fraudulent , since the Israelites supposedly moved to America before the codex displaced the scroll?

>there was a great apostasy
>mormons can't say when
I wonder why

Also the fact that they can't even make a map for the events of the Book of Mormon or find archaeological evidence for these mass graves described in it.

>>17751857
Metal codices were rare in the ancient world but not unheard of, especially for sacred and covenantal writings. We have archaeological artifacts of religious texts on metal plates dating to around the time of Lehi in the Mediterranean world, middle east, and mesoamerica, including metal fragments of the Hebrew Bible found in Jerusalem.

>>17751898
Right, but none of these artifacts point to anything the Book of Mormon preaches. Matter of fact, I would think it would be easier to find them in the US than it would any ancient findings from Hebrew times out in the desert.

>>17751543
>tfw you have a goofy name from the Book of Mormon
Thanks Joseph Smith!

>>17751864
The great apostasy began shortly after the death of the 12 apostles. It was two main things, really. 1) the process of retrojecting Greek metaphysical assumptions onto the text of the Bible, culminating at Nicea and later "ecumenical" councils, and 2) the doctrinal accretion of the supremacy of the episcopate beginning with the ipse dixit of Clement and Ignatius and later bishops - and related to this is the primacy of Rome in particular. We do not accept the catholic/orthodox claim of apostolic succession to be valid just because of an alleged unbroken chain of institutional continuity and tradition - especially in light of the unbiblical accretions of point 1 above. I can go into more detail on this if you'd like in another post but the gist of it is that we don't buy
>bishops can appoint future bishops according to us bishops!

>>17751898
Show me.

>>17751940
>The great apostasy began shortly after the death of the 12 apostles.
Damn, that fast? How did the 12 apostles ruin it out the gate when Jesus told Peter that the gates would not prevail against his church, when they would in fact prevail immediately after this death? Why were they so terrible and incompetent? Is Paul to blame? Do you guys accept or reject Paul's letters as scripture?

>>17751223 (OP)
Islam for whites.

>View of the Hebrews is an 1823 book written by Ethan Smith, a Congregationalist minister in Vermont, who argued that Native Americans were descended from the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, a relatively common view during the early nineteenth century
>The Book of Mormon shares some thematic elements with View of the Hebrews. Both books quote extensively from the Old Testament prophecies of the Book of Isaiah; describe the future gathering of Israel and restoration of the Ten Lost Tribes; propose the peopling of the New World from the Old (View of the Hebrews via land bridge, The Book of Mormon via ocean voyage); declare a religious motive for the migration; divide the migrants into civilized and uncivilized groups with long wars between them and the eventual destruction of the civilized by the uncivilized; assume that Native Americans were descended from Israelites and their languages from Hebrew; include a change of government from monarchy to republican; and suggest that the gospel was preached in ancient America
>Oliver Cowdery, who later served as Joseph Smith's scribe for the Book of Mormon, lived in the same small Vermont town as Ethan Smith and may have attended the Congregational church where the latter was pastor for five years. Cowdery may have passed on knowledge of the book to Joseph Smith

>>17752048
Joseph Smith is a known plagiarizer

>>17751903
>argument from silence failed
>try moving the goalposts instead
>>17751941
The strongest evidence I can offer is the Ketef Hinnom Silver Scrolls since they date to 600 BC in Jerusalem, the same time and place as Lehi. They prove that, while it was certainly not a common practice, metal engravings are not anachronistic to the time and place. These are significant because they are our oldest discovered biblical texts.

There is also the Pyrgi Gold Tablets, dating to 500 BC in Italy. They are a bilingual dedication to a Phoenician goddess, showing that gold plates were used in other semitic cultures other than the Israelites.

There have also been bronze or lead "curse tablets" discovered around the Roman world. If you look into this, one purported to be "Biblical archeology" dating to like 1400 BC has recently been debunked but there are many more legit ones dating between 800 BC and AD 600. They served the same purpose as voodoo dolls.

The Golden Orphism Book is 6 gold leafs bound in a very similar way to Joseph Smith's gold plates. It's dated to 660 BC and the oldest example of a bound codex that we have. It's written in Etruscan, thought to be a Totenpass, which in itself is a class of inscribed metal plates used in burials.

So as I said, metal plates and codices rare (such is the nature of ancient archeological artifacts) but it's not unheard of nor anachronistic.

if christianity left any doubt that retards and people with dispositions to zealotry yearn to believe in and be programmed by absolute nonsense, *ormonism removes that remaining doubt. utah heretics are the most stupid and hypocritical sect of american believers there are.

>>17751970
>gates of Hell will not prevail
Gates are a defensive structure, not an offensive one. As long as the church remains on the offensive against hell and evil, the church will prevail. When the church, however, retreats into being assimilated into the world, and is on the defensive against evil influence, no such promise is given. The verse simply does not mean what you want it to mean.
>>17752029
Just as retarded as comparisons to scientology. You're showing your ignorance of both religions
>>17752048
The theory that Joseph Smith plagiarized View of the Hebrews was never advanced during his lifetime. The prevailing theory of the day was the Spalding Theory, which quickly lost credibility upon the discovery of an actual Spalding manuscript in 1884 which bore no resemblance to the Book of Mormon. There are no records which indicate that Joseph Smith came into contact with the View of the Hebrews during the period of time that he was translating the Book of Mormon. No contemporary critic of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon pointed out the supposedly "obvious" connection to the View of the Hebrews and the Book of Mormon.
It is only with the failure of the Spaulding theory that critics began seeking a new naturalistic explanation for Joseph's production of a 500+ book of scripture.The View of the Hebrews theory was in fact first proposed by I. Woodbridge Riley in 1902, 58 years after the death of the prophet. There was, however, a reference to View of the Hebrews within Joseph Smith's lifetime, but it came from the prophet himself. In an article published in the Times and Seasons on June 1, 1842, Joseph quoted View of the Hebrews in support of the Book of Mormon.

>>17752076
Let’s look at an example from Joseph Smith’s archaeology, this time with an example from Ancient Egypt. In the Pearl of Great Price (Book of Abraham) Smith describes this Ptolemaic papyrus with the following captions:
>Fig. 1. Abraham sitting upon Pharaoh’s throne, by the politeness of the king, with a crown upon his head, representing the Priesthood, as emblematical of the grand Presidency in Heaven; with the scepter of justice and judgment in his hand.
It is clearly Osiris, we can recognize him by the feathered crown
>Fig. 2. King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head.
It is actually the goddess Isis. Notice the horned solar disk
>Fig. 4. Prince of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, as written above the hand.
It's the goddess Maat. The guy couldn't tell a man and a woman apart in ancient documents
>Fig. 6. Olimlah, a slave belonging to the prince.
Anubis. You can see there is a trace of the jackal ear on top of his head

>>17752146 cont
>>17752048
At least one critic has attempted to place Oliver Cowdery on the Joseph Smith farm beginning in 1826 based on the testimony of one Lorenzo Saunders to strengthen the supposed connection between Ethan Smith, Oliver Cowdery, and the origins of the Book of Mormon. Dan Vogel writes:

>On 19 Janaury 1885, Thomas Gregg of Hamilton, Hancock County, Illinois, wrote to Lorenzo Saunders living near Reading, Michigan, requesting information about Mormon origins. Gregg's letter, as reproduced by Charles A. Shook reads as follows:

Charles A. Shook wrote an expose of Mormonism in 1914 called The True Origin Of The Book of Mormon. He quoted this letter from Lorenzo (brother-in-law to Sally and Willard Chase —the same Chases who had trouble with Joseph) as a means of placing Oliver close to Joseph Smith in years before the publication of the Book of Mormon. However, as Vogel himself writes as commentary in a footnote to this letter:

>4. Saunders' claim that Cowdery first came to Palmyra and Manchester in the summer of 1826 is not corroborated in any other source. However, it is known that Cowdery's brother Lyman was in the area as early as 1825 and possibly taught school in Manchester prior to Oliver's arrival for the 1828-1829 winter term. This is another example of Saunders' tendency to remember things in conformity with the demands of his interviewers, which should be considered when assessing his statements regarding Rigdon's appearances in the Palmyra/Manchester area.

>>17752146
>Just as retarded as comparisons to scientology
Mormonism is Islam for whites.

>'Hey guys you won't believe it! God led me to these golden tablets that expose all the flaws and adulterations in the Bible!'
>'Sounds cool! So can we like... see them?'
>'EEEEEEEEEERM no.'
>Mormons still think that this isn't suspicious at all.

>>17752190
So you're admitting you've never even read the preface of the book.
>>17752181
>Bible
Though mormons acknowledge possible errors due to translation and transmission, the Bible is still studied, quoted, and revered alongside other scriptures. This attitude is much closer to mainstream Christianity than to Islam, which posits a supercession and abandonment of the Bible. Do you think all Bible translations are equal?
Verdict: Dissimilar to Islam.
>Religious Destiny
Ever hear of the Great Commission?
Verdict: essentially Christian.
>schism after JS's death
The LDS Church believes it retains prophetic succession through priesthood authority. Christianity also experienced schisms over leadership (e.g., Catholicism vs. Orthodoxy or Protestantism), making Mormonism’s experience more analogous to Christian history than to Islamic sectarianism.
Verdict: more similar to Christian schisms than Islamic
>human condition
Mormonism and Islam both reject the idea of total depravity. However, Mormonism teaches that all people are fallen and in need of the atonement of Jesus Christ to be saved. The Atonement is central to LDS theology.
Verdict: essentially Christian, other than Calvinism.
>Angelic origins
Joseph Smith’s revelations centered on Christ and restored the Christian gospel. The Book of Mormon and other scriptures affirm and clarify Christian doctrine, particularly the divinity and mission of Christ. The angelic visitors of JS pass the test of spirits in 1 John 4, the one who visited Mohamed does not.
Verdict: essentially Christian, explicitly biblical.
>polygamy
Verdict: "it's the same even though it's the opposite since 1890 lol"
>prophets
Islam teaches Muhammad was the final prophet (seal of the prophets). Mormonism teaches ongoing prophetic revelation through modern apostles and prophets. This belief is more similar to how the NT church operated under apostolic and prophetic leadership. Where are your church's prophets?
Verdict: essentially Christian

>>17752076
yeah so if it was so important the Book of Mormon was PHYSICALLY preserved for thousands of years why did it immediately vanish after J Smith got done "translating" it?
This is a trick question because your answer is to keep repeating lies of Satan because you swore to Satan that "his power and priesthood" be on you and your seed forever.

>>17752266
>So you're admitting you've never even read the preface of the book.
Literally all of them either rescinded their statements or clarified they saw the plate "spiritually"

Ask yourself, if your god is a god of lies (i.e. you believe he teaches that lying is good if it leads to something good), why wouldn't I believe your god is lying to you? Or, moreover, if the Bible says Satan is the liar from the beginning, and that he wishes to be like God, what would convince me that your liar-god isn't just Satan?

>>17751223 (OP)
The Church of Brigham Young is false, the real LDS Church was reorganized by James Strang after the death of Joseph Smith
https://www.ldsstrangite.com/about-us.html

Be Joseph Smith
>claim the writing on the tablets looked kinda Egyptian
>meanwhile everyone in the early to kid 1800s was obsessed with ancient Egypt because of Napoleons Egypt expedition

kinda sus

>>17752292
One could say the same thing about Christ's bodily resurrection. Why did he vanish just 40 days after resurrection if it was so important? Your logic casts doubt on your own faith, especially since the book of Mormon has a better case for the ressurection than the biblical account alone.
>>17752299
>only saw them spiritually
First, we don't believe that spiritual = immaterial. Second, I've already posted quotes from the witnesses that the plates weighed 60 pounds and the pages were physical with the thickness of tin.
We worship the same God, not Satan. You are just incorrect about God's nature. It's time to put the pagan philosophy away and return to Christ.
>>17752314
Strang literally wrote in his journal, in a recently deciphered code, that he was an atheist just looking for political power.

>>17752146
>As long as the church remains on the offensive against hell and evil, the church will prevail

But you still have failed to explain why the apostles fundamentally failed at establishing a single church congruent with a book no one knew about until Joseph Smith's alleged discovery. Did Jesus just pick a bunch of incompetent idiots to start his church? Were they all Judases? Why would Peter pick Linus, or James pick Symeon, or Mark pick Anianus, and how did they apostatize?

>>17752379
see
>>17752152

>>17752455
>Did Jesus just pick a bunch of incompetent idiots
Anon, have you read the gospels? Clearly yes.

>>17752076
>Ketef Hinnom Silver Scrolls
You might have gathered from the name these are not codices

>>17752420
Since you believe that your god condones lying (he does - I was in the mormon church for a while - my friends explained this concept to me), and given that Satan is "the father of lies" and wishes to "be like the most high," why should I believe that your liar-god isn't simply Satan tricking you into worshiping him as god?

>>17752605
Just the fact alone that the Bible has numerous verses warning of false prophets, then you have Joey-Come-Lately with his doctrines that pretty much go opposite of the Bible, it's not really hard to see him as just another Satanic figurehead poisoning the well. The LDS movement is insidious in its indoctrination, especially when you have the dangling carrot that says "Practice our lies 100 percent until you die and you'll get to the highest tier of Heaven (3 tiers btw lol) and become a God!"

>>17752605
The god of the bible allows for exceptions when lying is okay, like during war and to protect the persecuted, and blesses those who do.

>>17752683
Doesn't the warning against false prophets prove that there are true ones? "Beware of quack doctors" doesn't mean "all doctors are quacks." doesn't the exception prove the rule? why couldn't God call a farmer to be prophet in 1800s American frontier? Part of why the jews reject Jesus is because he was the son of a carpenter in backwater Nazareth.

>>17751915
>>17751915
is that you mosiah?

>>17752908
Maybe ;-)

>>17752864
Since you're already lying about everything, this following post of mine is mostly for any observers of the thread;

>The god of the bible allows for exceptions when lying is okay, like during war and to protect the persecuted
Sure, you could MAKE THE ARGUMENT that that's the case. Specifically, the people lied to* are always the ones marked for destruction/death. Not CONVERTS.
Like Rahab the harlot. She lied in hiding the Israelites. But what YOU do, Mormon, is lie to Rahab. It would be as though they told Rahab the city wouldn't be destroyed. But they didn't lie to her, in fact.
If you lie to me to convert me, and your "god" did the same on his earth, how exactly am I supposed to believe your "god" isn't just lying to you all the time, seeing as he is a god of lies? Or would you even care? I predict it now
>if God lies to me it's for my own good

>>17752908
>>17752955
and you are...?

>>17752969
Their god is also not an unmoved mover/primary cause of all that exists. He was a man like us who ascended to godhood, probably by obeying some other deity who created his reality. Thus we have a generational chain of gods that is infinite in both the past and future directions, which is pretty cool but not exactly Christian. He also lives near a star called Kolob.

>>17753045
Definitely Satan doing a test-run of the "muh aliens" shit he's been doing lately.
Doofuses.

Anon, I’m really sorry the church lied to you, whatever the issue may have been. I just want to share that my experience has been different.
In my case, the missionaries and Sunday School teachers mostly provide a basic, 100- or 090-level education on doctrine, exegesis, and history. I wish it were deeper from the start, but they’re not trained theologians. But I'm a theology autist and you and others here probably are too. Whenever I asked questions they couldn’t answer, they usually responded with an honest “I don’t know.” And then they pointed me toward LDS scholarship, like books, blogs, and articles from places like BYU-RSC. Often, they followed up later so we could talk more in-depth about where the scholarship is at.
That doesn’t mean I never encountered wrong answers or oversimplified explanations or misconceptions. But from what I’ve seen through my own study and conversion, the people I talked to gave me either sincere answers or sincere humility. They weren’t trying to deceive. They were just working within the limits of their training and understanding.
For example, I’ll be honest - unlike the rest of my rebuttals, I don’t yet have a satisfying answer for the BOA concerns. I’m still studying and trying to understand it better. At face value, some of it obviously doesn’t pass the smell test. But the robust strength and consistency I’ve found in almost all other areas of LDS theology gives me faith that there’s more to discover and come to understsnd. I believe I’ll eventually reach a place of confidence even on this issue.

“By study and also by faith” (D&C 109:7) has become a personal guide for me. And I try to take seriously the 13th Article of Faith, “We believe in being honest.”

God bless you, anon. I really do hope you find clarity and peace, whether in or out of the church. I wish we could discuss further in bona fide but 4chan really isn't a good place for anything but polemic apologetics.

>>17752152
>It is actually the goddess Isis
The horned solar disc is better associated with Hathor, which is more likely here. I can't read hieroglyphics though, so I can be wrong.
Anyways, you are right about the rest.

>>17753325
This sort of utterly patronizing and narcissistic language as you blatantly lie is the epitome of Satan.

>>17751223 (OP)
We already know

the golden tablets are copper plates from india

>Jahova's Witnesses
>Christian Science
>Latter Day Saints
There's something about the 19th century that rotted Christian brains.

>>17753408
>religion founded on larping as jews leads to more people larping as even weirder shit
i'm shocked

>>17751223 (OP)
So what? Even if they are real they could have been revealed by a demon. Also the Bible was never lost, and there is no evidence for the NA natives ir any american natives having any relations with the hebrews. Also the apostles preached the examine the scriptures, not ti brain iver them, since ine needs to come to the conclusion that the gospel is true by his own intellect. If the metric for I knowing what is objectivly true, is a subjective feeling, I might as well choose the belief system I like the most, not necessarily mormonism. Also the Book Abraham is the biggest evidence that Joseph Smith was a fraud. And in mormon theology itself "god" is not worthy of worship, since he is just a benevolent demiurge in a never ending chain of demiurges essentially. You can't explain motion with more motion. So the deity that would be worthy of worship (in mormonism) would be the one that existed before all of those false gods. Your religion is just gnostcism but you worship the bad guys.

>>17753408
It comes with being Anglo

>>17753574
Posting first half of my reply again because of stupid autocorrect
>>17751223 (OP)
So what? Even if they are/were real they could have been revealed by a demon. Also the Bible was never lost and rediscovered by magical/paranormal means, and there is no evidence for the NA natives or any american natives having any relations with the hebrews. Also the apostles preached to examine the scriptures, not to pray over them, since one needs to come to the conclusion that the gospel is true by his own intellect.

>>17753045
>Kolob
Sagittarius A* most likely.

>>17753325
>BOA concerns
D&C 7 is comparable, and also the Inspired Bible. A whole lot of problems arise from accepting non-scriptural teachings as binding; scribes can err. Look at 87 D&C, it has perfect words but needs to count "Even the nation of Great Britain" as a separate line entry in a list and not as a direct continuation of the Civil War prediction.

>>17753400
>india
Africa (Ge'ez probably is Reformed Egyptian)

*The star is in the name.

>>17753574
>the bad guys
No, the evil ones seek to bind man's agency to sin, while the good hope to make men free.

2 Maccabees has plates

>>17753408
The 7DA vision and Millerite 1844 prediction from Daniel came true with Joseph Smith.

>>17753574
>>17753325
One thing you will realize over time is that Mormons operate under a distinct epistemology. They believe that the Holy Ghost communicates with them in a language of feelings/visions so that knowing and feeling become one in their daily lives. That's why you will find members/missionaries confidently stating "I KNOW this Church is the only true one on the face of the earth" without understanding a thing about theology or other religions.
>>17753351
Both goddesses are associated with this iconography. Here are the hieroglyphs for the curious. You will find the same image and text in the Book of Abraham, crying out against the falseness of Smith's translations.

>>17754168
>Isis
Pharaoh
>Osiris
Abraham
>Ma'at
Prince
>Hor
Waiter
>Anubis
Olimlah

>>17754114
2 Maccabees recounts a most likely false tradition that says Jeremiah sealed the Ark, which probably actually is in Ethiopia.

>>17751610
Revelation is progressive because of the iniquity of man
Why do you think Jesus had to wait until the Law had been around for such a long time? People were just barely worthy to hear the Gospel even then.
Joseph Smith merely continues the Church's revelations as after St. Paul, who just as well was called by personal revelation.

>>17751812
>Mormonism and scientology have nothing to do with each other
They're both retarded cults that retarded americans fall for

>>17753408
>Christian
*american

>>17754098
>Ge'ez probably is Reformed Egyptian
oh, does that mean the Ethiopian Orthodox Church was the one true church until they apostatized and were cursed with black skin?

Here is another example of the Smithian method of translating historical artifacts. In the Pearl of Great Price we have this image which supposedly depicts an evil priest sacrificing the patriarch Abraham to his bloodthirsty gods.

>>17754187
Jesus came to die for the sins of the world, which all were unworthy of forgiveness, but humans were "still too immoral" to get it right?

So wait, did the Church fathers apostatize, or were they simply not told by Jesus and the Apostles? It feels like you're moving the goalposts.

>>17754730
Sounds metal

>>17754730
It is actually a funerary text. Scenes like this one where Anubis raises/treats a mummy are quite common in Ancient Egyptian art.

>>17752864
>Doesn't the warning against false prophets prove that there are true ones?
Yeah, but when you take into consideration ones like Muhammed or Joseph Smith who deliberately use the Bible to rip off of and twist it, you can see how the verses in question become pertinent to them. When we speak of prophets in the OT/NT biblical canon, they've always come to confirm the word of God as it pertains to the Bible and to reaffirm his teachings. With Joseph Smith, however, he wants to re-invent the wheel and exalt his own delusional charlatan fan fiction by completely spitting on the Bible he claims to venerate and confirm.
1 Timothy 2:5
>For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus
The Bible brings no mention of man becoming gods, no mention of having Joseph Smith gatekeeping the gates of heaven and deciding who gets in or not, just the simple statements of the one true father and the warnings he brought of bewaring the coming of conman chumps like Joseph Smith.

>>17754730
>>17754754
>>17754745
Yes, it does. But we have proof that Joseph Smith forged this document in question. Here is the original parchment with the Mormon prophet's drafts filling in the gaps.

>>17754735
Jesus mediated a new covenant, and fulfilled the old
Every step of the way however God has revealed more and more

>>17754756
Both of those prophets are condounding to you as Jesus is to the apostate Jews

>>17754710
The Book of Mormon teaches us not to revile anyone for their skin color
The skin change is a curse in that it elaborates the confounding of the peoples and languages to prevent the iniquity of man from stopping progress

>>17754730
>>17754754
>>17754765
Also notice the canopic jars under "Abraham's" bed, used to store the mummies' viscera.

>>17754773
Isaiah 43:10:
>Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
So, no, nobody is becoming a God from following the LDS church, no matter how tightly they wear their undergarments or how many children they pump out. Do you see how one of the core doctrines from Joseph Smith gets blown apart from the word of God in one single verse?

>>17754756
>YE ARE GODS

>>17754791
God does not always refer to the personal Gid, or, the Father, and sometimes means the divine nature or essence per the Creeds.

>>17754798
The personal Gid? I have never heard of that!

>>17754792
Lol Mormons love to cling to this verse like a life raft. Guess what? They're actually talking about the fallen angels, not you.
>They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

>I said, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.”

>Arise, O God, judge the earth;
for you shall inherit all the nations!

It's the prophecy of Satan and the fallen angels who were once God's most cherished being torn asunder by God almighty in the last days. You see how Satanic Mormonism is when they actually try to get it into your head that verses about the condemnation of the fallen sons actually means holiness for the children of God? That's just sick.

>>17754781
>Think of the Negro, cursed as to the Priesthood.... This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa – if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing.... to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the Celestial Kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory.
Mark E. Peterson (Quorum of Twelve Apostles)
>What is that mark? you will see it on the countenance of every African you ever did see upon the face of the earth, or ever will see. ... I tell you, this people that are commonly called negroes are the children of old Cain.
>Again to the subject before us; as to The men bearing rule; not one of the children of old Cain, have one partical of right to bear Rule in Government affairs from first to last, they have no buisness there. this privilege was taken from them by there own transgression.
Brigham Young (Prophet)

>>17754825
And just so there's no confusion:
2 Corinthians 4:4:
>In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
"Gods" in the sense of having dominion over this world, that gets undermined with "nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince". Just wanted to make sure nobody is thinking God sees angels as actual gods.

>>17754825
Jesus Himself references Psalm 82 inJohn 10 in defense of His own divine sonship. He uses the passage affirmatively, not as a condemnation of demons, but to highlight that scripture can refer to humans as “gods”.
He specifically connects the title “gods” to those to whom the word of God came, suggesting humans entrusted with divine truth, not fallen angels.
If Jesus saw Psalm 82 as referring to fallen angels, then invoking it to justify His own claim of being the Son of God would be nonsensical. Mormons just take Christ's own interpretation at face value.

>>17754862
Angels are gods (elohim) in the sense that they are divine, beings. All divine beings are elohim, which is why God is called the "Elohim of elohim" or "God of the gods" in Psalm 136. He presides over all divine beings. You are just imposing an incorrectly narrow definition of God onto the Bible. You are doing the same thing as the jews in John 10 who narrowly interpret the verse to merely mean "human judges" (which are also referred to as elohim, "mighty ones")

>>17754872
In John 10, Jesus was talking to the Jews who threatened to stone him for proclaiming himself the son of God.
Revelation 3:9:
>Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.
John 10:31-38:
>Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”
>The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
>Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
This isn't Jesus talking to holy men, this is Jesus reaffirming the labeling of these false Jews as the actual synagogue of Satan - fallen angels masquerading as men once chosen by God.
>If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
>do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
>If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
>but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
>Again they sought to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.
Notice how vehement and vicious these "Jews" were, despite Jesus giving the good promise of showing himself as the one true son of God through the works he could do? He's basically humbling the fallen angels by reaffirming God's authority and reaffirming, "I once told you would be Gods over the Earth, but in my coming you shall see that holds no candle to the one true God". No wonder they could only seethe and try to take him down.

>>17754918
A bit hypocritical of you to accuse Joseph Smith of "twisting scripture" just to spit out your novel, fringe eisegesis that the jews of John 10 are really fallen angels and not men who used their agency to reject the messiah.

>>17754981
How is it twisting when I've been adhering to the scripture, and not spouting off fantastical claims of men becoming Gods (something I've already given a refutation to with a verse), 3 tiers of heaven, a prophet being exalted above God in the matter of choosing who gets into Heaven, blatantly inserting myself into the OT Bible:
>And that seer will I bless, and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise I give unto you; for I will remember you from generation to generation; and his name shall be called Joseph, and it shall be after the name of his father; and he shall be like unto you; for the thing which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand shall bring my people unto salvation.
God constantly warned us of the devil and his ilk, they weren't sitting on their laurels and letting God work without resistance. Joseph Smith is just another one, working in the name of Satan to confuse and distort the original word of God and manipulating people to accept his false religion.

>>17754895
Jesus used "Ye are gods" to justify him being the Son of God

>>17754995
>a prophet being exalted above God in the matter of choosing who gets into Heaven
Source?

>>17754918
>No wonder they could only seethe and try to take him down.
Like you and your ilk with Joseph Smith.

>>17754995
>confuse
Nowhere is Joseph Smith the cause of confusion
The continents got mixed up ny scribes, Joseph Smith was infallible even without being disclosed the true nature and origin of the plates.

>>17754995
Ye are gods means you have agency - free will - something the devil desparately wants to oppress with sin and malice.

>>17755006
Deuteronomy 4:35-39:
>Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him…..Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
Nobody is beside him. No spiritual mother, no lovemaking going on to produce spirit babies, nothing. Speaking of "spirit children"
1 Corinthians 15: 46:
>The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
Your "prophet" Joseph Smith presumed to use the OT and the NT, knowing that all of its teachings and revelations contradicted his own book heavily. This is NOT the act of a prophet ordained by God himself, this is a false figure spouting heresies and lies to break people from God's original intent and word. He's perverted, twisted, and robbed the original word for Satanic ends. My brothers, reject this false religion and go back to God's full word and embrace. You don't need this garbage to be children of God, God will still be with you no matter what and still give you holiness should you want it.

>>17755028
>1 Corinthians 15: 46
Out of context

>>17755028
>Joseph Smith presumed to use the OT and the NT
Jesus Christ 'presumed' to use the OT in ways which confounded sinners and saved the elect. Repent and believe the Gospel - the Book of Mormon (from Ethiopia) - the D&C & PGP.

>>17755028
>spiritual mother, no lovemaking going on to produce spirit babies, nothing
Where in the LDS material is that piece of information?

You wouldn't believe the Mormon Book is fake if you had read it all the way through (even out of order, but mark the useful verses ofc) and How can you judge a Book if you haven't even read it? If you haven't then how can it harm you? Let the people attend to the business of God in peace - save your rebukings for actual heretics, who say with no authority words to bind men to man's commands, as I rebuke you, heretic!

>>17755039
The Heavenly Mother, who procreates with The Father to create spirit children, straight from Joey Smith himself.

Repent and believe the Gospel - do not be ashamed of the Word of God being true.

>>17755046
I have studied so much of the words of thr prophet and they are a breath of fresh air to me - I do not recognize your claims however.

>>17755045
It's a heretical book that will lead to a life of lies. We're supposed to live in life, love, and truth, not the misguiding filth straight from the mouth of a madman. Break free from the lies, embrace God as intended, and you shall see light and love that the LDS teachings and church could never give you.

>>17755052
Well, that's why google exists :^)

>>17755053
It is not a book even capable to bind the conscience to error by its own repeated admission - it is humble yet also GOLD to me and is the keystone of my earnest faith - do not be decieved into believing false reports! It is truly written in ancient Ge'ez - the only error close to it is that people think it was indians!

>>17755056
Only source I can find is Chris Nemelka's claimed "sealed portion"

*

>>17755063
I mean, it has its own Wikipedia article, just type "Heavenly Mother".

>>17755071
Can you put that in Chicago?

>>17755072
What the hell is Chicago? Is that a search engine?

>>17755071
>became more widely known after Smith's death in 1844
Ellen White saw a vision confirming Miller's Daniel prediction the same year - 1844 - the first telegram sent What hath God wrought

>>17755077
>The theological underpinnings of a belief in Heavenly Mother are attributed to Joseph Smith, who shortly before his death in 1844 outlined a controversial view of God that differed dramatically from traditional Christian consensus
So, the first of this is attributed to Joey S from the get go. Right before he shuffled off to leave his followers without him in following the heresies, he mic dropped with one last major heresy. What a guy.

>>17755082
Except he literally had the Holy Ghost assist him halfway through that speech

>>17755052
Here, from the Church's official website.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng
The purpose of marriage/sealing within Mormonism is precisely for both to be gods after reaching the Celestial Kingdom and creating other worlds and spiritual children (yes, sex still exists in their heaven).
>T. was a member for 18 years.

>>17755095
>gospel-topics-essays
I only defend inspiration

>>17755085
Nah, not according to Deuteronomy as seen here:
>>17755028

It's okay, I understand how it is for Mormons (no offense meant with the use of the label, it's just easier to use for non-LDS people). It might seem tough to break free entirely from the teachings you've enveloped yourself, perhaps from growing up in it or conversion willingly, but God is merciful and loving. Should you choose to go to him fully and reject the heresies of Joseph Smith, God will make it a joyful reunion for you.
1 John 4:18:
>Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced His perfect love.
There'll be no heartbreak to be had, there'll only be the true love and light.

>>17755102
>heresies of Joseph Smith
Name one.

>>17755110
I just did lol. Heavenly Mother....Deuteronomy...nobody beside him...

That ain't a prophet, son, that's a swindler.

>>17755098
?
There is no such distinction within the Church. The gospel is a compilation of revelations from 1820 to the present day. Essays, manuals, etc. are simplifications of revealed doctrine for educational purposes and not debates of theology. Heavenly Mother is common knowledge in Mormon congregations and you must be a bit of a noob not to recognize the religion's official website.

>>17755114
Did they really talk about that while you were a member? I have never heard about it and never seen it sourced to Smith

>>17755120
Scribes can err, they even do in recording revelation - look at d&c 87 to see percect words with misleading punctuation and versification
Kinderhook plates are an example - never canonized

>>17755122
My guy, I already posted:
>>17755082

And I was never an LDS member.

>>17751821
Isle of "Comoros" has capitol city "MORONI"

>>17755082
>attributed
by wikipedia?

I mostly go by the D&C, pgp, BoM, expanded Bible, and a handful of stuff not yet canonized - I defend all that is within

>>17755137
Yeah, and went on to be spoken of by his own cousin Joseph F. Smith:
>man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father [as an] offspring of celestial parentage...all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity...
Since it's attributed to Joseph Smith and his own cousin is pushing it, we can assume this idea were teachings passed on from him, despite no written doctrines from him.

If we want to quibble about the authenticity of whether Joseph Smith pushed the idea or not, I could easily give truckloads of other heresies to point out. The Book of Mormon is a book of lies, it's not hard to expose it.

>>17751543
Those books are more welded together than separable - they are all redacted and abridged and interpolated into by an editor - Mormon

>>17755159
>I could easily give truckloads of heresies to point out. The Book of Mormon is a book of lies, it's not hard to expose it.
Name one.

>>17755110
>>17755166
The Book of Mormon is infallible and inerrant - a sure rule of faith.

>>17755126
>>17755141
The whole point of the Church is that revelations do not end at any point, so a doctrine does not necessarily need to be in the D&C/PGP to be considered God's revealed truth, as long as it comes from a prophet or general authority. In fact, you are expected to study the teachings of the prophets/institution on Sundays along with sacrament meeting through classes guided by their manuals. D&C itself has appendices with revelations from Wilford Woodruff, Joseph F. Smith, and Spencer W. Kimball.

>>17755182
The OD's are all fine
#138 also
Nowhere does new canon revelation contradict the Gospel in telling me to obey the doctrines of man as well - only teachinfs of the Holy Ghost. You have to throw out the idea of Lamanites being Indians for starters, that is nowhere in the scriptures but everywhere in man's presumptive and false teachings.

>>17755182
>revelations do not end at any point
Yeah but only God can make them - anything of man is separate, even within the organization.

>>17755166
Ephesians 4:4-5
>There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Whereas LDS believe the Godhead are three separate individuals (Four, if you throw in the Holy Mother)
Galatians 1: 8-9:
>“But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!”
The "Angel" Moroni and the "gospels" from the golden plates that were not preached by the original gospels in the Bible.
Isaiah 43:10-11
>Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
Nope, nobody became or will become gods before or after the lord our God.
Revelation 22:18-19:
>I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Just as The Book of Mormon proclaims itself as a 3rd add on to the OT and NT. God flat out saying there's no more additions to be had, and that anybody who is following false additions can not share in his glory. Not only did Joseph Smith add on, he also inserted himself into Genesis, thereby changing the original passage of words.

>>17755206
>Godhead
Same as "Trinity".
>>17755206
>a gospel contrary
There are no contradictions.
>>17755206
>no God formed
Do not confuse different meanings of "God" - Jesus is God not the same person as God the Father but the same God which is deity or divine nature or essence.

>>17755206
>God flat out saying there's no more additions to be had
In Deuteronomy as well, referring to the 5 books.

>>17755206
John 1:1-4
>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John speaking of Jesus, establishing the Trinity and showcasing Jesus's godhood from the beginning. Mormons believe Jesus was not god originally.
John 8:58:
>Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.
Again, Jesus establishing himself right at the beginning as God, something Mormons don't believe. He's saying "I am god".
>>17755218
>Same as "Trinity".
It isn't, the trinity is the father, the son, and the holy spirit, all in unison with each other. They are one. The Godhead Mormons come to believe 3 separate distinct beings presiding over things, which is refuted in scripture multiple times (I already gave example)
>There are no contradictions.
There is, because I've been giving examples of LDS doctrine going against the Bible multiple times already.
>Do not confuse different meanings of "God" - Jesus is God not the same person as God the Father but the same God which is deity or divine nature or essence.
Yes he is, hence the Trinity. Scripture has already backed up this argument multiple times.
John 10:30:
>I and the Father are one.

>>17755249
>3 separate distinct beings presiding over things
3 persons 1 essence.
>examples of LDS doctrine
Without citing any LDS scriptures.
>Mormons believe Jesus was not god originally.
Source?

I am not trying to dance around you but you aren't really giving me much to give a response - I do not intebd any rudeness.

>>17755260
You know, why don't you get back to me when you can refute this verse, because I see you deliberately skipped it:
Isaiah 43:10-11
>Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
You're not going to become a god, chief. The Bible is telling you that the doctrine you've come to follow is contradictory and outright lying to you. Believe in the original word of Christ and he'll set you free from this nonsense.

>>17755249
>thinking the trinity is in the Bible
You're retarded.

>>17755190
>>17755199
So you intend to apply the Sola Scriptura framework to the foundational books of Mormonism? That won't work. The prophet has the authority to receive revelations that dictate the course of the entire Church and with equal canonical weight. When it is politically expedient, contemporary equivalents will come to the temporary suspension of polygamy (1890) and the end of the restriction of the priesthood to blacks (1978). Time will make you realize that in practice the institution/Church precedes the written word within Mormonism.

>>17755276
Is this what happens when all other arguments fail you? You have to manifest yourself negatively, because you know you've been under the spell of lies? With Jesus Christ, there's only truth.

>>17755270
see
>>17754792

>>17755277
Both of those changes were in line with the scriptures and only disagreed with traditions of man.

>>17755290
Not me, different guy (-:

>>17755294
Yeah, I already saw and gave it a rebuttal. You want to be a fallen angel, is that it? Ye are gods who neither knowledge nor understanding reach while they walk about in darkness?

>>17755290
>you've been under the spell of lies
I only bought Skyrim 3 times and do believe the settlement building mechanic in Fallout 4 "Just Works"

>>17755304
I saw Satan cast out of heaven like a bolt of lightning, I most assuredly do not want to confederate with him

>>17755306
I unironically have bought Skyrim 3 times.

>>17755319
I am not joking - I bought it a fourth time as a gift
360
Steam
Switch

>>17755316
That's good, so now you need to stop following his work brought forth from his minion Joseph Smith and embrace God in his entirety through the Bible.

If anyone has trouble with the multiple gods/one God question, Tolkien has a good justification in the preface to the Silmarillion - angels as subordinate "gods" - humans are comparable for we are made of matter but do have free agency.

>>17755294
The men in question were supposedly appointed by God and were in constant contact with him in their everyday lives.
>>17754844

>>17755328
How in the hell could Joseph Smith have faked the Book of Mormon? Even with a group, and why?

>>17755336
Constant companionship of the holy ghost does not equate to infallibility

>>17755362
>How?
He got a gaggle of other spurned fallen children and made shit up. They created a consensus by themselves that they sought to spread by saying "Look, there's more than one guy saying it, so there has to be something to it, right?"
>Why?
To break people from the original word of God and lead them down a path of heretical indoctrination that disguises itself as a path of righteousness
>For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
>And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
>It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
One thing I want to reiterate to the LDS people is that I'm not trying to get you to reject God, I'm trying to get you to come to him wholly, unblemished and untainted by false teachings, just as he intended. I know I use the word "heretical", but I'm not calling you heretics. Satan is the greatest liar and deceiver of all, it isn't on anybody that he managed to construct such great lies and manipulations to ensnare us all. There's no shame in falling for his pitfalls, because the one true God can help us out of them and continue on to walk the true path.

>>17755282
I will admit I kek'd

https://youtu.be/I1LqFOdwqVI?si=mhgZaba8UI0vm7jp

https://youtu.be/fcN8DssaRp8?si=_NTbmZLseM-Ecb0q


Acts 5:38-42, Mark 9:38-41

>>17755381
The jews are the exact same way about Jesus - confounded and mistaken

>>17755390
You're a heretic.

>>17755397
I will pray for my LDS brothers and sisters that they will see the truth and tell them that there's no need to fear when the moment of their revelation comes (because it will, make no mistake). Christ will show you the way, because he loves you and is always with you. Always.

>>17755412
>there's no need to fear when the moment of their revelation comes
I am not trying to bund anyone's conscience anyway

>>17755412
You should pray for one single word to come to you that would confound me or prove that I am mistaken

>>17751821
Can you explain this? I thought it was most likely in Ethiopia

>>17752076
>golden orphism book
>The artefact is said to have been discovered in either 1943 or 1955 in the area of the Struma river in Bulgaria. Its subsequent whereabouts are not known, but in 2003, the elderly discoverer donated it anonymously to the National Historical Museum (NIM) in Sofia.
>Museum director Bojidar Dimitrov asserted that the book's authenticity had been 'confirmed by two experts in Sofia and London', according to a BBC report derived from the French news agency AFP, but neither expert was named.
fake as fuck, of course.

>>17751245
>lies within the first minute
Closed. Have fun burning, by the way.

>>17751223 (OP)
What's with the LDS posting of late? Is it the newest LARP? Or are they doing some sort of internet outreach?

>>17755745
The LDS church is most certainly not astroturfing on 4chan. The guy who keeps claiming that the book of Mormon is Ethiopian is likely a troll though, based on some other things he said about doctrines ITT.
Some of the anti-Mormon polemics ITT have been addressed in length for so long that I wonder if they themselves aren't simply larping as some other Christian denomination. It shows a serious lack of engagement with Mormon apologetics, scholarship, and history.
It's more than just a little insulting to think we don't have an apologetic response to, e.g., Galatians 1:8 or Revelation 20:18-19 or Isaiah 43:10. Or to think that Joseph Smith was the only person who saw the angels and plates. Etc. Etc.
It's one thing to have heard our arguments and be unsatisfied with and respond to them, it's another to be purposefully and aggressively ignorant of them or to just move on to another baseless accusation after previous accusations have been put to rest in a gish gallop of polemics.

I'm a sucker for a good b8 thread about what I'm knowledgeable about tho lol.

>>17755800
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ge%CA%BDez

>>17755745
They're more common than you think. They're on /pol/ too, which is kind of odd.

>>17755834
Normies increasingly hate Mormons because there's a lot of Netflix documentaries against them

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel
This is the only place that makes sense—the only place outside of global reach that saw an exodus of Jews

>>17755800
When anti-LDS people have empty criticisms they aren't worthy of engagement

>>17755800
>some other things he said about doctrines ITT
Just because I know the material and you refuse to engage my arguments soundly doesn't mean I am not earnest

>purposefully and aggressively ignorant
>move on to another baseless accusation after previous accusations have been put to rest in a gish gallop of polemics
Wait is this not reddit? But I thought this was the absolute dogwater of the internet

>>17755834
>pol is a xtian board
Allowable.
>The Book of Mormon
Banned after janny loses argument.

>>17755800
You didn't respond to the posts about Joseph Smith's crappy translation of the Egyptian papyri however (canonical part of the Pearl). It is the only translation of Smith in which we have access to the original document and raises serious doubts about his capabilities and seriousness in such matters.

>>17755884
Look at D&C 7 - Abraham is at the very least comparable to it, if not literally on the papyri - scribes wrote the blurb in italics before the writ.

>>17755851
2 Nephi 1:8 debunks this. Give it a rest.

>>17755893
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prester_John

>>17755899
2 Nephi 1:6-8 debunks this too.

>6 Wherefore, I, Lehi, prophesy according to the workings of the Spirit which is in me, that there shall none come into this land save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord. 7 Wherefore, this land is consecrated unto him whom he shall bring. And if it so be that they shall serve him according to the commandments which he hath given, it shall be a land of liberty unto them; wherefore, they shall never be brought down into captivity; if so, it shall be because of iniquity; for if iniquity shall abound cursed shall be the land for their sakes, but unto the righteous it shall be blessed forever. 8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance.

This verse proves it is the new world. It was a land kept from the knowledge of the old world. Not Ethiopia. Not a lost country in Asia conquered by Muslims or pagans. An unknown land.

>>17755922
Nothing solid, nothing like this legitimate candidate for Refirmed Egyptian..

>>17755927
The scriptures cannot be broken, Brother Anon.

>>17755934
The scriptures are fulfilled

No one has confounded me yet - nor will anyone ever.

The Koran mentions "Sabians" - people have long struggled to identify them - they are the Lehites of Africa.

>>17755965
This but this is what Mormons are like when they rail against Jesus Christ.

>>17755889
The scrolls of Abraham are not the same as those of John the Beloved. The two works were translated/written and published on very different dates.
The hieroglyphics and drawings on the facsimiles have nothing to do with the translation, the scrolls dealt with things totally different from Kolob, they mention neither Abraham nor Moses and are thousands of years too recent to have been written by the former. The Pearl of Great Price (canonical) begins by stating:
>The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.
which is easily refutable by modern Egyptology.

>>17754110
> Trap your sons in a meat body, and make them strive for godhood, instead of already making them gods from the start.
Wow, so much for a "good" god. If you did not believe in soul pre-existence I would find the free will to obtain godhood valid, but it does not make when you believe in that bs.
It is better to go to mormon hell, than to worship the demiurge. Mormon god is not all powerfull, knowing, nor loving, and he is not beyond time.
The thing or person that created space, matter and time in mormonism is worthy of worship, and that being created basically all those fake gods that would have rebelled against him probably, since they want the worship for themselves.

>>17755973
That is a scribal addition and not original to the scripture itself

>>17755965
I was a member for 18 years. My dad and sister served missions, my whole family is Mormon, I spent my teenage years with them in 4 years of seminary + institute, we must have read the entire text of the scriptures a ton of times together. There's no misunderstanding here man, I can speak from experience about Mormonism or go into my living room and ask the four Mormons who are probably walking around there for more details. You're the newbie here man
>>17753325

>>17756023
Do you believe the NT? & OT?

>>17756069
They believe and frequently read/study both, but always from the perspective of the Church so that these works become riddled with foreshadowings of the "restoration" (founding of the Church) and Book of Mormon events. They generally use the KJV but also have a version "revised" by Joseph Smith.

>>17751223 (OP)
>God let humans lead each other astray for 1800+ years until a guy claims that he's going to set things right finally.
God wouldn't be so cruel to do this.

>>17756127
What about the 1800 years before Jesus?

The book of Mormon is not the Bible part III, it is more a separate companion volume to it as a whole

>>17756151
That's what the prophets were for.

>>17751223 (OP)
Every time you knock on someone's door to spread your fake gospel, God gets even angrier with you. You ever notice how Mormons, if they leave their faith, end up being God hating atheists instead of becoming real Christians (i.e. Baptists)? It's because God hated your mission work so much that he hardened your heart and blinded you to the truth of the Gospel, essentially damning you to Hell before you actually die. That's how much he hates your devilish work. You should leave and believe in Jesus if you still can. The real Jesus, not "Lucifer's brother". Else, have fun burning. You fully deserve it.

>>17756184
>>17756183
So improvement is a reasonable expectation, even progressive revelation?

>>17756186
I believe that you will burn instead - Lucifer fell however much farther than you, into unforgivable sin. If you would just repent and believe the Gospel of God he would open the heavens unto you. Only those who sin against the Holy Ghost are without hope of salvation. Your own malice I hope is only rooted in ignorance and despair.

hey, real quick, retards, what happens to people who died without their name being known to future generations?
when I did my genealogy in your mormon church, a majority of my ancestors were simply impossible to ever find records for (i.e. all records of their existence no longer exist).

>>17756186
>You ever notice how Mormons, if they leave their faith, end up being God hating atheists instead of becoming real Christians (i.e. Baptists)? It's because God hated your mission work so much that he hardened your heart and blinded you to the truth of the Gospel, essentially damning you to Hell before you actually die.
this.
although they literally swear themselves to Satan at their temple endowment so I'm more of the mind that that is the moment of their reprobation.

>>17756186
>>17756127
see
>>17755800
>>17756097
>>17755965

>>17756193
>I believe that you will burn instead
Great. You believe nonsense. I'm going to Heaven when I die.
>Lucifer fell however much farther than you, into unforgivable sin.
What?
>If you would just repent and believe the Gospel of God he would open the heavens unto you.
I can't repent of my hatred of Mormonism AND believe the Gospel. Those things go hand in hand. Further, I have already believed in the Gospel.
>Only those who sin against the Holy Ghost are without hope of salvation.
Sorry, there are at least 3 unforgivable sins in the Bible. Joseph Smith committed one of them when he started publishing a new, fake word of God.
>Your own malice I hope is only rooted in ignorance and despair.
Enjoy Hell.

>>17756195
You should read the gospel before accusing people who have read further than that of being somehow less intelligent than you.

>>17756188
Yes, until God himself comes down and establishes a new and everlasting covenant. After that no more revelation is needed until judgement day..

>>17756196
>they literally swear themselves to Satan at their temple endowment so I'm more of the mind that that is the moment of their reprobation.
Oh true? Could be. But a lot of people worship Satan and still get saved. I'm more inclined to believe that it happens to them sometime during their two year missions - Probably not the exact first or exact last day, but somewhere in there they have a conversation with themselves and say "I don't care what God actually said. I choose Mormonism instead."

>>17756201
I have. And yes, I know what YOU mean by Gospel. I've read it all you dunce. I was in the Mormon church.
>somehow less intelligent
Answer my question, thou child of the devil.
What happens to people for whom their names can never be known? since they MUST be baptized by proxy according to YOUR GOSPEL.
All you ever do is lie like your father.

>>17756201
You have to be retarded (or evil) to believe Mormonism. Sorry.

>>17756205
>no more revelation is needed
Anyone who wants to oppress the word of God at any time can just say that

>>17756199
You have no authority or comprehension and are a true loser of grace. Repent.

>>17756206
Satan appears to them in the Endowment ceremony and commands them to put on them an apron, which is clearly stated to the congregants as "the sign of [Satan's] power and priesthood."
They end the endowment, amongst other foolish and hellish oaths, by swearing "the power and the priesthood be on me and on my seed forever" whilst dressed in Satan's apron.

>>17756208
Don't apologize for your heresy, simply repent.

>>17756207
>What happens to people for whom their names can never be known?
Do not fear for them - God is no respecter of persons - Every man is judged fairly and perfectly - Trust the Lord - Repent of your own sin in ignorance.

>>17756210
Different priesthoods - false (yours) and true (mine)

>>17756209
>You have no authority
I have the Holy Ghost.
>or comprehension
You are railing against the elect. Those flames just got hotter.
>and are a true loser of grace.
No, in fact I'm such a winner that the Bible says I've overcome the world.
>Repent.
Of what? You don't sound epic when you say this, by the way. You just sound like a holier-than-thou loser. Complete trash, in other words.

>>17756212
So the dead do not need to be baptized by proxy? Bear in mind, you teach that no one was baptizing for the dead from the time the Apostles died until J Smith came on the scene. So there were no hidden Mormons baptizing for the dead which could cover for this apparent lapse in baptisms.
Do the dead not need to be baptized by proxy?

>>17756210
I'll have to read up on that, thanks.
>>17756212
>simply repent.
You don't sound epic when you say this, by the way. You just sound like a holier-than-thou loser. Complete trash, in other words

>>17756215
And yet you entirely fail to confound me.

>>17756214
I truly thank you for breaking your oath to keep the Endowment ceremony secret. Your reply corroborates my statement on the Endowment ceremony, and in corroborating it, you reveal it.

>>17756209
When God himself comes down to earth and says this is my new and everlasting covenant, while warning of false prophets in the future, does this not ring any alarm bells for you? Everlasting means everlasting, not 'until this guy in America is born who will give you some new scriptures to follow'.

>>17756219
I won!

>>17756216
Scripture is positive, not negative
Be not afraid
I am not come to bind but to loose what should not be bound
Reoent and believe the true Gospel you read, not the evil reports and tares of scribes.

>>17756221
I was endowed separately to the Utah organization.

>>17756226
>I was endowed separately to the Utah organization.
So you're some breakaway Mormon? or are you the Stonehenge-Hill Cumorah poster?

>>17756225
What did you win but your own damnation? You seal yourself!

>>17756097
In complete fairness this is not too different from a Christian reading of the old testament crammed to the Brim with debatable foreshadowing of their holy carpenter.

>>17756224
erm, yikes chud, clearly that's the part that God deliberately allowed to get corrupted and confuse everyone.

>>17756232
>Stonehenge-Hill Cumorah poster
I asked about that character earlier, no response
>breakaway
I simply read the scriptures of my own accord so I have a good clean comprehension of them free of scribes' errors and can defend them perfectly.

>>17756235
Half of the Old Testament is dedicated to foretelling a messiah. That's not analogous whatsoever to J Smith self-inserting into his version of Genesis.

>>17756235
If it wasn't debatable it would be retroactive interpolation - and yet Jesus is indeed all throughout the OT.

>>17756239
>I simply read the scriptures of my own accord
I'm just going to assume you're a Brighamite that has gone back to lying out his ass after realizing he broke his Endowment oath. lol
No one gets Endowed outside of actual Mormon sects. So asserting you're not even part of those just means you're a lying Brighamite.
Idk. Breakaway Mormons are probably mentally ill or Brighamites in denial. You're just a narcissist with a god-complex.

>>17756252
Aaronic endowment is symbolic
Melchizedek endowment is real.

>>17756233
>What did you win but your own damnation? You seal yourself!
No, sorry, you're hallucinating again. I'm never going to Hell.

>>17756243
And the restoration is all throughout the New testament.

>>17756258
Progressive revelation is already clear in the Old

>>17756256
Are you just playing stupid? That's not what "The Endowment" is.

>>17753574
>Even if they are real they could have been revealed by a demon.
A demon can't replicate tbe Holy Ghost. Observe this failure kvetch and quibble: >>17756215

>>17756268
I am not bound by any command of man not to speak of my true endowment.

>>17756270
Congratulations. You just blasphemed the Holy Ghost. You're done.

>>17754995
>God constantly warned us of the devil and his ilk, they weren't sitting on their laurels and letting God work without resistance.
Hence the persecutions Joseph Smith suffered

>>17756274
You have a delusion. Repent, heretic: it is for your only hope.

>>17756278
>Doubling down
Please keep it up. I can't wait until you see how hot you've made your flames! The look on your face will be priceless. :)

>>17756274
That's not what that passage means Anon.

>>17756271
I mean, THAT I know. You're bound by Satan as I've previously explained.
Have they already given you your cheap little wife as a consolation? Too good to be true, for a dork like you? Or are you still fantasizing about it? Boy did those missionaries fantasize to me about ladies when I did favors for them.
I'll let you in on a secret of *mine*; ye have plowed with MY HEIFER.

>>17756284
>>17756281
You are in manifest error. I would have you scourged for this. Go find a single point of doctrine wherein I sin.

>>17756282
>That's not what that passage means Anon.
The blasphemy of the holy Ghost is only specifically talked about in reference to people like that piece of trash who claimed that Jesus was possessed by a demon. So it's a near perfect analogy.

>>17756290
Tick tock!

>>17756296
I won.

>>17756225
You lost.

REPENT
AND
BELIEVE
THE
GOSPEL

I am Jesus

>>17751223 (OP)
That image is actually a replica.

>>17756290
I had the bad luck, you see. Her brothers had contented themselves with girls outside of the church for brides.
It fell on her, I suppose, to carry on the outward appearance of a good Mormon family. She had asked me to marry her, even long after I had ceased that demonic church. But no sooner did her mother intervene.
Of course some fat doofus that cant even spell words married her. And a year after that she had attempted to solicit me, without letting me know of her husband.
Each and every one of you, in addition to blaspheming Jesus Christ, the God of the Universe, has violated ME.
The day is coming, I suppose, in which your persecution complex will be validated, if only for a few short moments, before fire and brimstone consumes you for eternity.

>>17756277
>Hence the persecutions Joseph Smith suffered
MY solace is that anyone who listens to you vile ones will realize what abject liars you are, and to correctly deduce that your god is a god of lies. And that your carnal prophet of lies had his sexual debauchery cut short in an act of divine vengeance - stealing people's wives tends to bring such judgment upon you.
OH, and you are under the power of Satan forever for breaking your oath in the Endowment. Good luck!

And it's actually pronounced "Joshua".

>>17756319
Sad that you would cave to such miserable afflictions as you suffered - may you be restored twice whole to the Gospel.

>>17756323
You don't believe a word you say you filthy liar. One life to live and you spend it lying at all times. A contemptible beast.

Is every Mormon thread like this?

>>17756327
>One life to live
youtube.com/watch?v=Joip4cIKEew&pp=ygUTeW91IG9ubHkgbGl2ZSB0d2ljZQ%3D%3D

>>17756329
Only on /his/

New Thread:
>>17756341

>>17756270
Ok. Now prove you really have the Holy Ghost. Prove that your Church is special. Prove it ia not a hoax(btw, your """prophet""" tried to translate hoax plates a said they had a meaning, kek). Prove you are different from any prot church that claim to have the Holy Ghost giving them prophecies. D&C 84:5, where is the temple the Lord supposedly said would be built in the generation of Smith? Where is the destruction of the US goverment because of mormon persecurtion? Also, you guys can't and will never will be able to justify the existence of the Book of Abraham beyond od something like "trust me bro". You can't say that Joseph was not trying a direct translation, because in his diary he said it was a direct translation, not an ispired one or something similar, he actually believed the meaning of the papiry would result in the Book if Abraham, which we know that is just an funerary text. At this point you mormons are just coping, you can't awnser anything with rarionality, and have to appel to vague fellings, claiming those same fellings are god talking to you. The Book of Mormon doesn't even afirm your heretical vision of God it at times afirms the trinity, and at others the modalism heresy, not tri-teism, which is a reflex of Joseph Smith's family, because his fathers was modalist, and his mother methodist.

>>17751223 (OP)
The Book of Abraham was obviously a fraud.

>>17751223 (OP)
Isn't this the magic underwear coffee cult that keeps harrassing old people?

>>17756739
>And if mormonism is true Jesus is a liar, since he said the gate of hell would not prevail, which did not happen in mormonism, hell prevailed, the church was destroyed and needed to be created again, so why I should believe anything if what you guys say? Why should I subscribe to the LDS Church, if Jesus is a liar in your own theology, that makes false promisses?
Hell did not prevail.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo_Illinois_Temple

>>17752048
200th anniversary