Thread 17755740

>Genesis 2:7
>Then Yahweh God formed man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and so the man became a living being. ... 22 And Yahweh God fashioned the rib, which He had taken from the man, into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

This was a metaphor for billions of years of evolution?

>>17755740 (OP)
Evolution is fairly new. I'd imagine medieval monks, rabbis, and whatever muslims have came up with a variety of reasoning behind the symbolism (or just take it literally).
So, I'm inclined to believe it doesn't really matter and imagining the real way it happened to be an exercise of pure curiosity.

>>17755740 (OP)
No, evolution didn't happen

>>17755795
Pope said it is

>>17755863
No popery

>>17755887
Um, your meme imagine anet gonna cut it. Papal infallibility. Pope literally said so. Sorry them the rules bud

>>17755740 (OP)
>billions of years of evolution
Never happened. Humans have not been here for billion or even millions of years. A few thousand at most.

>pope says the science is real
>prottie thotties have ANOTHER meltdown
sad!

>>17756058
Bible says like 5 or 6k years if you work off the genealogy and average life span...sorry guys, bible says so. End of story

>>17755763
If medieval chronicles from Iberia to Armenia are anything to go by a literal interpretation of Genesis seems to have been consistent through most of Christendom.

>>17756090
Science is a false god

>>17756105
the Bible says you should sell all your shit and give it to poorfags but most of you would rather give it to Israel. Christcucks born after 1648 are a joke.

>>17756129
>let me tell you about your religion

>>17756129
Doesn't work if you only believe in the old testament.

>>17756119
I was taught the rib thing in a christian private school. So I'm very much inclined to believe that medieval christians took the whole story literally.

>>17755740 (OP)
No, it's just a corrupted* account of what actually happened.

*You're using a fake translation which uses the fake name Yahweh. Have fun burning.

>>17756174
>not the KJV? Have fun burning

>>17756180
>not the KJV? Have fun burning
This is, of course, a strawman. It's going to Hell because it rejects the Bible as a whole.

>>17756180
>>17756194
>Not the Douay-Rheims

Looks like someone's going to HELL

>>17756146
I guess I understand why certain christians want to anachronistically project modern views backwards in time to win arguments, but it stretches credulity that ecclesiastically-educated christians in that time period were OK with saint legends about resurrecting the dead or driving snakes out of Ireland but "clearly" weren't on board with a literal interpretation of Genesis

>>17756194
>You're using a fake translation which uses the fake name Yahweh. Have fun burning.

>>17756838
Yahu is holy.

>>17755740 (OP)
>And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-2-7/

>And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-2-22/

Now try to explain to me, nigga... why do you ignore this part?
>And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-2-21/

Don't you get it? Separation is a dream. We're never separated from God. We are dreaming.

>>17755763
>it doesn't really matter
Why not? An actual (not imagined) scientific prowess would have been an obvious way for a revealed, omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent god to do what he claims he always wanted to do, wouldn't it?

>>17759707
Science is a false god

>>17759445
notice that the Holy Spirit/"life" was not put into women, only adam, therefore all feminine is satanic in nature and was made to steal your adamic seed/Holy Spirit
XY chromosome = Holy Spirit
>then they SPLIT THE SEED OF ADAM INTO 2
XX chromosome = has no such Y chromosome
having children = being BORN into SIN
looks like the anti-natalists/cathars were right
sex is the greatest prison food

>>17756054
didnt say it from the chair so it doesn’t count

>>17755740 (OP)
Always funny Christians want to wave away ALL of Genesis for its obvious mythical elements, but say with a bold face the magic of Yeshuah and his resurrection were 100% real though.

Do we live in a fantastical world with a personable god and his isomers or not?

>>17760059
This thread, this board and actual real life churches are full of people openly rejecting evolution what the fuck are you people talking about

>>17755740 (OP)
No. Because if God wanted to teach evolution he just would have. Sure he might have to use small words, but we teach fucking elementary school kids about evolution and they get the gist of it.
The story is a sincerely literal story from Hebrew mythology that "explains" why life isn't paradise, women are "inferior" to men, and snakes have no legs. As religion evolved this rather farcical tale has had several addendum's retcon'd into it. Such as "Original Sin" or the Snake being the Devil and not just a talking snake. These are found nowhere in the original text either directly or implied and are essentially people trying to piece together a coherent narrative and philosophy from a collection of works (the Bible) that spans several different authors over several centuries who had different philosophies and beliefs, all while not knowing their writings would be later combined together.

>>17756126
Then give up your spectacles, computer, smartphone and gramgrams triple heart bypass.

>>17755740 (OP)
Reminder that "rib" is a mistranslation

>>17760313
Remind me again

>>17760275
When did your god create these and by what magic did it create them?

>>17760059
>Always funny Christians want to wave away ALL of Genesis for its obvious mythical elements, but say with a bold face the magic of Yeshuah and his resurrection were 100% real though.
Shalom, Rebbe.

The idea that the Earth was 6,000 years old was invented by an Irish bishop in the 18th century. Prior to that people had no specific idea of how old it was and most creation myths going back to ancient times just had it as "a long, long time ago."

>>17761843
This is false, John Owen who writes in the 17th century states the age of the earth was over 5 and a half thousand years old.

>>17761843
yeh the ancients didn't really have well-defined concept of time. it's kind of hard to not project modern thinking onto people who lived 2,500 years ago but such as it is.

>>17760269
>The story is a sincerely literal story from Hebrew mythology that "explains" why life isn't paradise, women are "inferior" to men, and snakes have no legs.
I take it the presence of quotation marks around inferior is a sign of the damage inflicted on one's worldview by unbelief, and the absurd idea it is intended to explain "why snakes have no legs" I take as a manifestation of Psalm 14:1, since I doubt any one has ever wondered that let alone sought to explain it. Now this is a misrepresentation of the function the story serves in the narrative of Genesis. The stories of the creation week and of Adam and Eve would probably have been familiar to the original audience already when it was written. The two passages are a portion of the first segment of Genesis, which also includes Cain and Able, the nephilim, the great flood, and the tower of Babel, which we may call the primeval history. The primeval history is only a small part (about 20%) of Genesis, the main body of which is about the lives of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph. Its function is essentially to serve as backstory for who Abraham is, and the world in which he finds himself, which itself is backstory for the Book of Exodus, as the purpose of Genesis is to tell us who the people of Israel are, who their God is, and what brought them into Egypt.

(cont.)

>>17760269
>Such as "Original Sin" or the Snake being the Devil and not just a talking snake. These are found nowhere in the original text either directly or implied
Now this indefensible assertion is a direct example of the blindness inherited from an unbelieving worldview. Original sin is nowhere in the text? "Cursed is the ground because of you"? The identity of the serpent is nowhere in the text? "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed"? Not to mention this secularized interpretation requires you to believe there is such a thing as "just a talking snake".
>people trying to piece together a coherent narrative and philosophy from a collection of works (the Bible) that spans several different authors over several centuries
There's no need to "piece it together", for scripture is one voice of one Holy Spirit who spoke through men for the benefit of one people of God.

>>17756054
Pope sold indulgences as a matter of faith and morals. Bankrupting peasants threatening them with their loved ones suffering in "purgatory" (also made up) to build a Basilica.

If that's infallible, I'd hate to see a fallible teaching.

>>17761825
Science is his god, he believes in Scientism.

Unfortunately without philosophy/ethics you get atrocities.

>>17761843
Here your most highly regarded church father Origen, 3rd century, says it is less than 10,000 years old.

>Celsus harbors a secret desire to discredit the Mosaic account of the Creation. It teaches that the world is not yet ten thousand years old, but, in fact, is very much under that.
>Origen (c. 248, E), Ante-Nicene Church Fathers - Vol. 4, Page 404.

Why do Christians always lie?

What are we doing on this Earth exactly? Why are we here?

>>17761902
>Never cursed Adam and Eve
>He cursed the ground and made it grow thorns
>Later says he will never curse the ground again Genesis 8:21
>Calls the serpent a "beast of the field", Satan is an angel
>Satan doesn't have seed or descendants

It was just a talking snake. Yes, your religion is that retarded.

>>17761918
Just evolved. No reason. Probably happens all across the universe, very few animals ever become intelligent.

>>17761843
>The idea that the Earth was 6,000 years old was invented by an Irish bishop in the 18th century. Prior to that people had no specific idea of how old it was and most creation myths going back to ancient times just had it as "a long, long time ago."
My take was they assumed the days of creation as ages rather than literal 24 hour periods.

>>17761918
Read the life story of Marco Polo
Read the story of Ferdinand Magellan
Read the life story of Hernán Cortés
Study history and you will see what peak manhood looks like

>>17761918
>Why are we here?
There is no “why”.

>>17761912
Origen is like partially unorthodox. Not all of his ideas found support within the mainstream Christian tradition. That he said something isn't necessarily a representation of mainline Christian beliefs.

>>17761926
>>Never cursed Adam and Eve
Are you blind?
>>He cursed the ground and made it grow thorns
Which is one part of the curse on man. The world is cursed together with the man because it is his dominion.
>>Later says he will never curse the ground again Genesis 8:21
Equivocation fallacy
>>Calls the serpent a "beast of the field", Satan is an angel
The text does not actually say that, it says it was craftier than any beast of the field, and then more cursed than any, but does not identify it as a beast of the field. When He says to the serpent "On your belly you shall go", this is not a reference to legs. That is an anachronism which I think, ironically, is derived from Darwinistic conceptions of the origin of serpents and their relationship to lizards. The serpent did not lose its legs, it lost its wings. The dragon likely did appear in the guise of a serpent (to enhance his deception) and by cursing him in this way the Lord makes a metonymic reference to the form to represent how lowly and humiliated he shall be from that time, as a flying serpent which has lost its wings.
>>Satan doesn't have seed or descendants
You are the seed of the serpent, as I am the seed of the woman.
>It was just a talking snake. Yes, your religion is that retarded.
No, you're that retarded. So retarded you think primitive people were unaware of the fact snakes don't talk.

>>17755740 (OP)
>This was a metaphor for billions of years of evolution?
No. God is creating the category of man in his image. That of a conscious being. Specifically saying that humans are special because we are conscious.
Notice that man is created from dust. i.e. the material of the earth, but women is created from part of a man? That's because woman is a subcategory of human.
Go read John 1:1 and keep on re-reading it until you understand what God is, and therefore what Genesis is.
It just isn't all that difficult.

>>17762184
Origen's unorthodoxy with regards to creation is not in the dating of the world but his allegorical reading of Genesis.

>>17762261
Amen

>>17755740 (OP)
Yeah, it was. I've been saying this for years but people tend to give me a weird look. Going over the story of Genesis in adulthood I didn't find that evolution explicitly disagreed with scripture. In fact scripture and the theory of evolution seemed to be in agreement with regards to the state of the early earth, as in the first few lines they specify that life began in the oceans. It was always strange to me that evolution and the origins of life as current science understands it was held up as some ultimate refutation of Christ.

>>17762433
Does Genesis say people are descended from fish?

>>17762433
i think ancient people did the best guesswork they could about the Earth's origins given the limited knowledge they had. it's still impressive that the Greeks guessed at atomic theory even if their specific version of it was way off from the truth.

>>17762433
Milquetoast believer.

>>17762441
>jewgods perfect word

>>17762477
>gish gallop of lies

>>17762485
>jews lie about everything
>they're telling me the truth they're gods chosen people though!

Dumb golem

>>17762441
I mean, kind of. It doesn't really get too specific.

>>17762493
>jews lie about everything
>let me lift my entire religion, philosophy, and worldview from their culture and history
dumb golem

>>17762493
Awesome! Enjoy Hell.

>>17762500
>let me lift my entire religion, philosophy, and worldview from their culture and history
say you what now?

>>17762252
>You are the seed of the serpent, as I am the seed of the woman.

No, Genesis says Eve is the mother of all living, that would include me. Yes, you are that retarded.0sr2y2

>>17762252
>You are the seed of the serpent, as I am the seed of the woman.

No, Genesis says Eve is the mother of all living, that would include me. Yes, you are that retarded.

>>17762500
>>jews lie about everything
>>let me lift my entire religion, philosophy, and worldview from their culture and history
Religion? They reject Christ. Philosophy? Greek and Roman. Worldview? It's very different than an Orthodox Jew or secular one.

>>17762587
>But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

>>17762530
Saved
>>17762499
>God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing of the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

>Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, so that they will have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Try again

>>17755740 (OP) PAY ATTENTION:

Adam represents the ego.
Eve was created ONLY after Adam was sleeping.
Adam didn't wake up.

YOU ARE IN A DREAM.

I haven't seen a convincing Christian argument for actual timeline of how humans are created. Either you go Ken Ham creationist which is at odds with geological/evolutionary evidence or you go thelogical evolution which seems forced. I watched William Lane Craig talk about it and he said God could have taken apes and modified them a bit to make humans which sounds silly and also blasphemous.

>>17761798
it refers to the penis bone, which some mammals have but humans don't. the origin story of eve was originally an explanatory fable as to why is this so.

>>17761843
>The idea that the Earth was 6,000 years old was invented by an Irish bishop in the 18th century.
but similar ballpark ideas were around much earlier. the orthodox church used a slightly longer count way before Ussher, as do the jews.

>>17763536
>or you go thelogical evolution which seems forced. I watched William Lane Craig talk about it and he said God could have taken apes and modified them a bit to make humans which sounds silly and also blasphemous
It's all subjective and depends on how literally you do or don't take the Bible lol. I've bizarrely found fedora atheists the biggest Biblical literalists anywhere.

>>17755740 (OP)
Well? Has /his/ come to a consensus on whether Genesis is literal or metaphor yet?

>>17762477
>what is context?

>>17762704
Yeah man nowhere in that passage is their proof that man didn't come from animals, it's God making things, I don't know how He did it. Created can mean evolved? Is this the right interpretation? I don't know. The point is none of us will likely know for certain how the world was made in exact terms until we go up and meet with him. Do you really think it necessary for God to add a quick bio-lecture on the Telomere limit? Or would it have been just easier to say man won't live past 120 years, and let us figure out later why he gave such a specific number.

>>17764965
>until we go up and meet with him.

You think God lives up in the sky?

>>17764971
Good job waving that autism pride flag and trying to literally interpret a common turn of phrase!