>mfw an atheist tells me I have an obligation to be vegan and go green

>>17771362 (OP)
That's the face I made when I read your Noah's Ark story and threw the book in the trash

>>17771400
Shut the fuck up. They have found pieces of the Ark on Mount Ararat, atheists tried to cover it up but failed.

Christians are allowed by God to destroy all of creation. And once they're done he gives them eternal life and happiness in another place that they cannot destroy for some reason.

>>17771362 (OP)
>>mfw an atheist tells me I have an obligation to be/do anything at all.

>>17771419
but did they really or did you fall for another clickbait article

>mfw I see strawmen everywhere

>>17771627
Point 1.

>>17771362 (OP)
>Yeah God gave me, specifically, this Earth
>That's why I feel zero remorse for throwing trash in the ocean and exterminating entire ecosystems and spewing loads of toxic shit into the air we breathe
Why are Christos like this? If you get a gift from a parent, usually you treat it as well as you can.

>>17771762
>>That's why I feel zero remorse for throwing trash in the ocean and exterminating entire ecosystems and spewing loads of toxic shit into the air we breathe
This is everyone, not just Christians. And the most environmentally conscious countries are traditionally Christian countries.

Genesis 1:29
>And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
God wants you to be a vegan my child

>>17771362 (OP)
Atheist corporations illegally dump tons of toxic waste into nature all across the world
Irreligious lumpenproles such as Mexicans throw plastic bags manufactured by corporations everywhere
Nonchristian South Asians have polluted the Ganges and the Indus river to insane levels
I don't know why you randomly chose christianity to rip on. And I am saying this as a Muslim.

>>17771400
>t. vegan atheist

>>17771802
You've never even read the Bible I don't know why people like you insist on such dumbass cherry picks

>>17771419
Evidence? Remember anon, bearing false witness means you burn in hell fire forever. Tick tock!

>>17771400
>>17772412
https://x.com/AMAZlNGNATURE/status/1896872955558158829

>>17771362 (OP)
This is not 2010 retarded tranny
Nobody says this anymore
>>17771762
Americucks are mentally ill cattle culture war faggots
They think that green/vegan = leftist and only think in dicothomies

>>17771775
>And the most environmentally conscious countries are traditionally Christian countries.
Africa hasn't signed a climate accord worth shit. The Nordic countries are some of the least Christian countries on the planet. Get fucking real anon.

>>17771775
Describing modern day europe as "traditionally" christian is a crazy cope

>go vegan

morally this is correct. the animal meat industry is literally hellish. watch videos of farms and slaughterhouses.

>go green
we have better technologies than fossil fuels. stop sucking the dick of big oil. free energy from the sun and the wind is somehow bad?

>>17772705
Being against the modern meat industry ≠ being vegan

>>17772705
>hurr we'll solve every problem in the world if you just give us absolute power
sounds like communism

Either man is above the animals and therefore eating them requires no further justification, or man is equal to the other animals and therefore eating them is just another animal behavior that we may freely participate in.

>>17772742
This but unironically

>>17772742
>>17772867
Who is asking you absolute power exactly?

Why americans such delusional seeing boogeyman everywhere

Do you unironically think greta will line you up and shoot you in the head because you agreed with her lol

>>17772887
stop replying to mossad/eglin air force base trolls

>>17772867
based, if communists were more like Stalin than Trotsky I'd respect them more

>>17772887
funny how the biggest rednecks are closer to accomplishing your green utopia than you are

>>17772927
you're really delusional lol

go kys from lead poisoning or whatever

>>17772705
>animal meat industry
vegetarian I can get behind, especially when its to boycott factory farming. veganism is just retarded moral grandstanding. you're not hurting chickens you raise in your backyard by gathering the eggs they lay every day regardless, or when you milk a cow that naturally got pregnant and drink the milk

>>17772887
>Who is asking you absolute power exactly?
>Why americans such delusional seeing boogeyman everywhere
saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

>>17772887
>Why americans such delusional

>>17772929
oh right, they are pure evil for eating meat and milk while you with your prius and frappuchino soimilk lattes are so superior and environmentally conscious, sorry, I am the delusional one here

>>17772937
True

>>17773051
>soi
Beer is more estrogenic and destroy even more your t levels

>>17773051
Well at least you can admit when you're wrong anon

>>17771802
>God wants you to be a vegan my child
That would be a little odd given that Jesus served lamb and fish sauce at the Last Supper.

>>17771362 (OP)
Strictly speaking, there are no moral facts. However, if you care about your grandchildren having a habitable planet to inherit, which you probably do, then going green will help to fulfill this goal.

>>17772725
At the very least it means significantly cutting back on meat consumption, since most of what you can get is from factory farms.

>>17772937
But that's not the vast majority of milk and eggs that people eat.

>>17771362 (OP)
>atheist tells me I ought to do my part for a planet that isn't special at all and for some kind of human monolithic community that conspicuously doesn't give a shit about what i want or believe in
>"ok, how about you force that green shit on China and India then"
>uhm acshully I can't because they're sovereign countries and we should respect their specific communities's beliefs and ethics
any greenfag who isn't willing to invade foreign countries to force their green agenda are either virtue-signalling retards or taxmaxxing assholes

>>17771362 (OP)
>Mfw a Christian tells me his sect beliefs are "the truth"

>>17774092
Oh le truth

So old so recent so real so unavoudable at the same time so obvious

>>17774092
>sad
Religious seek the truth, they're people just like you anon

We're simply going to force you to do what we say by using AI to torture you if you don't. We already won.

>>17774097
>>17774098
The difference between you and me is that I don't pretend to know who is the Creator etc etc. I'm an agnostic, you are liers

>>17774097
>>17774098
The difference between you and me is that I don't pretend to know who the Creator is etc etc. I'm an agnostic, you are liars

>>17771400
This is the face you made after you died

>>17774942
A liar is the one who denies the God who reveals Himself constantly through his conscience, through nature etc.

>>17772705
>atheist
>morality
lol

>>17774957
I don't deny God existence. I deny all the tales of your retarded fairy tales book

>>17771362 (OP)
There's atheistic justifications for objective morality. Though you may argue they still pre-suppose a 'God' but that's something else.

>>17775025
>There's atheistic justifications for objective morality.

>>17774047
>Strictly speaking, there are no moral facts. However, if you care about your grandchildren having a habitable planet to inherit, which you probably do, then going green will help to fulfill this goal.
If you care about the planet you'll go green and not have any grandchildren.

>>17774047
>Strictly speaking, there are no moral facts.
Man's place on earth is secured by the power of his mind. To deny a man his mind by initiating force is therefore evil. This is moral fact, cope and sneed.

>>17772705
I like how vegan/green arguments usually just boil down to "let's stop buying from this exploitative industry and buy from this other exploitative industry instead!". You aren't solving any problems
>>17772742
I'd take authority that seeks to better the conditions of the world and the people over the present authority that only seeks to enrich itself at the expense of the people and the world. You're delusional if you think you're actually living in a democracy.

>>17775034
There are, Fag Frog.

>>17775970
Name one.

>>17776021
Man's primary method of survival and evolutionary "right of existence" if you will is his mind. It is the 1 thing he has that outcompetes the other living beings around him. To be human is therefore to reason. To reason is an individual activity, if I eat you are still hungry, if you think I am still ignorant. That means that if you initiate force (and thereby bypass a man's mind and also consent) you are by definition mistreating him. It is akin to cutting the wings off a bird. There, a biological non-mystic argument for individual rights and capitalism.

>>17776021
Categorical imperative.

>>17776029
>Man's primary method of survival-
Why is survival good? You're already having to fight the antinatalists on this point.
>>17776031
>Categorical imperative.
LOL
The categorical imperative is not an atheistic moral system, Kant himself didn't see it that way, as a matter of fact, he saw it as possible proof of the existence of God.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPHYiSvlwiM

>>17776055
I don't need to fight antinatalists, they want to die already. I won't force them to stay here. Life is for the living. Survival is good because I reason for myself and decide that it is for me. I will not decide for others, they are free to kill themselves.

>>17776055
>>17776031
Also, there is no atheistic reason to follow the categorical imperative, which at the end of the day is just a more wordy repackaging of "do unto others as you would have them to unto you".

>>17773051
Yes, you are delusional for thinking this is the average rural life and they aren't consoomers too.

>>17776063
>I don't need to fight antinatalists
Obviously not literally, retard. I'm talking about their ideas, you have to disprove them. Your position already started with a presupposition, that survival is good, well then you'd have the antinatalists knocking at your door ready to fight you on that presupposition.

So what do you have to disprove them.

>>17776071
I don't have to disprove them. They have their reasoning (death is better than life) so they are free to kill themselves. I have my reasoning (I like living more than being dead) so I stay alive. Does the idea of reciprocal freedom mean anything to you? Both humans can decide for themselves, you don't have to disprove opinions, you can freely live your own.

>>17776063
>I reason for myself and decide that it is for me. I will not decide for others, they are free to kill themselves.

>Survival is good because..........BECAUSE IT JUST IS OK?!?!?!?!?!?

Ok, but I don't want to see you questioning other people's ideas ever again, since you've already admitted that you have no rational justification for your own.

>>17776075
>Does the idea of reciprocal freedom mean anything to you?
No. Another idea you have to justify.

What's wrong with someone using force to make the people around them subscribe to their way of life?

>>17776077
Opinions are not "one size fits all". That's how you get a free society, people are free to pursue their own ideas and opinions. Survival is good for me personally because I fill my time with things that stimulate me emotionally and physically like working, discussing ideas, creating things. I enjoy them, I don't need to justify that to anyone.

>>17776080
Now you're just pretending you didn't read this post >>17776029, to initiate force is evil because you are actively mistreating a human being by bypassing their consent and their own reasoning.

>>17776087
>That's how you get a free society
Why is a free society a good thing?
>>17776087
>Now you're just pretending you didn't read this post >>17776029
I didn't read further than.
>>Man's primary method of survival-
Because I already found an issue with your reply at that point. As soon as you address it I'll be happy to continue reading the rest, until then, no.

>>17776092
>Why is a free society a good thing?
Because humans biologically are reasoning entities, they can know truth (like Aristotle stated, A=A) and must necessarily know truth in order to survive. The mind is the primary method of survival because it sets us apart from other creatures. If you compare us physically we are weak slow and frail, we need to cook our food, we can't survive the cold or the heat. All these problems a bear for instance doesn't have, because it's primary method of survival is being a fucking tank of a creature that can destroy most anything in it's path. It therefore does not need long term planning except for the winter sleep. We however have to plan constantly, keep ourselves at a reasonable temperature, make traps and tools to capture and prepare food so we don't get sick. The reason we can keep our comparatively frail bodies alive and even thrive is because we are simply the best at planning and logic on this planet.

>>17776096
tl;dr The mind is our evolutionary right to exist as a species on this planet. It is the reason we are alive today.

>>17776096
>Because humans biologically are reasoning entities
Appeal to nature fallacy. Why does it matter that humans are biologically anything? We don't have to be bound by our biology and we aren't, we defy it in so many different ways.

>>17771362 (OP)
this never happened btw

>>17776097
>The mind is our evolutionary right to exist
Lol wut. Having a mind alone doesn't give us the right to anything, rights aren't even real in an atheistic worldview. They're just constructs that humans came up with like money or nations.
>as a species on this planet.
Why should we exist? One could very easily make the case that our existence on this planet has been very damaging to it and it would be better off if we ceased to exist.

>>17776099
It matters if the human mind was as complex as a chimpanzee, we wouldn't be here. Our bodies are not as strong or tough as a chimpanzee's so humans would not have survived past the first couple generations or so. It matters because it is the reason we are here.

>>17776107
I don't mean rights as in the bill of rights, I mean rights as in that which is necessary for us to live. We need to have this complex mind to live, without it we would not have survived the stone age.

>One could very easily make the case that our existence on this planet has been very damaging to it and it would be better off if we ceased to exist.
Damaging to what? Life? We are life. Killing us is damaging to life. The earth will do fine long after we are hypothetically gone. It has endured hundreds if not thousands of "world-ending" cataclysms, eruptions, earthquakes, meteors, ice ages, you name it. These are not "damaging to earth", but to the humans trying to live on it.

>>17776115
>It matters if the human mind was as complex as a chimpanzee, we wouldn't be here.
So? Why should we exist?
>I don't mean rights as in the bill of rights, I mean rights as in that which is necessary for us to live.
I know that's what you mean, and my point still stands. Why should we be alive?

>>17776115
>Damaging to what?
The environment, other species. Other forms of life that are not us. You keep going about life being good, but our prosperity has come at the expense of many other forms of life, a lot of which are extinct and gone forever.

>>17776117
We should exist when and because we choose to. That is the choice a human can make for themselves. My personal reason is I enjoy being alive, what is yours?

>>17776118
They're dead, they have no use for our repentance. Species will come and go, so will humans.

>>17776123
>We should exist when and because we choose to.
Who is "we"? You are only one person, stop pretending like you speak on behalf of all of humanity, you only speak for yourself.
>They're dead, they have no use for our repentance.
What about all the species that are still present today but endangered?
> Species will come and go, so will humans.
Great, maybe it's time for humans to go too.

>>17776123
Again you are ignoring the rest of my post at your own convenience. When and because *WE* choose means individuals can make that choice for themselves. You choose to live? You should be alive. You choose to die? You should die. Your individual life is your property, and as such you are free to do with it as you see fit provided you also respect that aspect in the life of another human.

>>17776131
>Again you are ignoring the rest of my post-
Indeed I am, I stop reading as soon as I find a problem and then form my reply. Address the problem and then we can continue.

>>17776136
I did, in the post you were responding to already. We as humans can make our own choice whether to live or die. What that choice is, however, is personal.

>>17776137
>We as humans can make our own choice whether believe in God or not. What that choice is, however, is personal.
This is how you sound.

>>17776143
If you are schizophrenic, sure. You choose to live every second you don't commit suicide, every time you eat, breathe, drink. Choosing what to believe is not connected to that.

>>17776150
Great, so we go back this this point:
>>17776077

>>17776152
Survival for me is good because I enjoy being alive. I choose it over death as long as that is the case.

>>17776175
So justifying something just because you enjoy it is enough for you? Hope you don't object to others doing the same....

>>17776182
Other humans are still free to decide over their lives. I would not want to pick for you for instance, nor would I want you to pick for me.

>>17776129
So if life is bad why not kill yourself?

>>17776810
>So if life is bad-
Never said this.

>>17776189
Reasonable.

>>17776845
I mean you are arguing that human life isn't worth living thus it is implied life is bad in your mind

>>17771362 (OP)

>>17776129
>maybe it's time for humans to go too.
Why?

>>17778726
Some adults are stuck at pre-conventional

>>17776845
Yet you are defending their stance here>>17776071
>>17776055
Life is inherently good because if it wasn't you would kill yourself immediately to escape. The simple refutation to the antinatalist ideal is, "if life bad why stay alive". No antinatalist can refute it.

>>17772705
>free energy from the sun
Wow, I didn't know we put the sun in a dyson sphere?

>>17776117
>Why should we exist
Because existence is good.