>God can’t force you to accept him
>He wants you to have free will
Fuck that! I don’t want free will. When the potential consequence of free will is an eternity of burning and suffering with no escape, then I’d just play it safe and be a flesh robot. What good is free will when that’s the alternative? No thanks.

The current result of our “gift” of free will is that 90%+ of humans to ever walk the planet are suffering eternally in a pit of magic lava. No thanks, I’ll pass on free will. Make me an angelic flesh robot with no soul.

>>17805250 (OP)
This desu. Christcucks talk like giving people free will is some great show of generosity on God's part while in the same breath saying that it's the source of all bad things in the world and the reason that the vast majority of humans will go to hell. But it's okay, they deserved it because (say it with me) they had free will! Now as an atheist I'm not saying that having the ability to make your own choices is actually a bad thing, I just can't comprehend how Christians can think it is in light of that worldview.

free will is nonsensical bullshit so that christ cultists can gaslight you into thinking the created is to blame and more responsible than the creator

>>17805250 (OP)
>>17805256
All you gotta do is repent and recognize him as your Lord and savior, you absolute shits
Jesus even waived away the cost so you don't have to pay equal amounts to the damage you have brought. He just wants you to sin no more

But you will never do it because you love sin and just wanted to waive away the consequences of it

>>17805387
>you will never do it because you love sin
No, it's because as far as my limited intelligence can make out, God isn't real.

>>17805387
>But you will never do it because you love sin and just wanted to waive away the consequences of it
I love how you always gaslight yourself into thinking this so you never have to engage with what people actually think and feel

>>17805387
>But you will never do it because you love sin and just wanted to waive away the consequences of it
It’s easy to feel this way when the Bible lumps most of the things regular people like to do into the category of “sin.”
>You filthy degenerates are addicted to your fleshly desire to breathe air and eat food and drink water
>Pathetic.
It’s the most basic tactic of emotional manipulation, and yet you tards think it’s profound.

Even better that regular shit is lumped together with truly heinous shit.
>You like jerking off? You’re no better than a thief.
>You like getting a blowjob from your girlfriend? You’re basically a murderer.
>You like getting drunk with your friends on occasion? You’re no better than a cannibal.
Dunno man, maybe those things aren’t actually evil, and they were singled out because religious leaders knew back then that people liked doing those things, so it was an easy way to make everyone a “criminal” according to their arbitrary benchmark.

>>17805595
Jesus never expects any of us to actually reach perfection
He just wants us to try it anyway

The fact that you cannot heal your tumor is no reason to not eat healthy, exercise, and abandon drugs

Jesus' standards are not fair. It's overwhelmingly in your favor.
Just confess, repent, and accept him as the one in charge of your life

>All you gotta do is repent and recognize him as your Lord and savior, you absolute shits
>Jesus even waived away the cost so you don't have to pay equal amounts to the damage you have brought. He just wants you to sin no more
>But you will never do it because you love sin and just wanted to waive away the consequences of it

>>17805692
The irony of this is that it would be easier for me to follow the Law than to convince myself some guy in Palestine 2k years ago walked on water and healed people with his spit.

>>17805776
You just don't want him to be real for you fear his judgement

>! I don’t want free will.
That's free will

>>17805832
How does that make any sense if I could easily avoid that judgement if I believed be was real?

>>17805838
lol no
No one's going to "avoid" judgment.
You can avoid the eternal pain IF you take on the pain of guilt, repentance, and faith. Rather be flogged and crucified for 3 days than for eternity

>>17805843
Yeah ok god will still tell you you've been a nasty boy, but you'll avoid the eternal barbecue. Seems like a no-brainer if you believe this character exists, it's an insanely easy way to avoid the worst possible thing that could ever happen to you.

>>17805848
Other way around
We are not trying to "avoid" punishment. We are carrying our cross because we know that we deserve it.

Yes, we are AAAALLLL sinners who deserve hell.
It doesn't matter how light you think your misdeeds are. The thief and the murderer both goes to the same prison

All of us are failures
Not everyone wanted to accept that

>>17805250 (OP)
>Make me an angelic flesh robot with no soul.
Based and FF16 pilled

>>17805851
>Yes, we are AAAALLLL sinners who deserve hell.
...and you think you'll avoid this punishment.

>>17805859
It is not in me to decide that.
All I can do is pray and have faith in the judge. Whatever he gives me, I will accept

>>17805861
...but you do actually think that you'll avoid that punishment.

>>17805862
Again, I have no authority to decide that.
All I can do is pray and have faith. Hopefully, he'll grant me mercy

>>17805867
I didn't say that you think you have the authority to decide whether you'll go to hell. I'm saying that you think you won't go to hell.
Are you retarded or just pretending!

>>17805870
I. Don't. Know

Submission to him means that I should not make assumptions. Just focus on my mission and shut it. His judgement is his alone

>>17805874
So you're basically 50/50 on whether you will or won't go to hell, gotcha.
Given that you put the likelihood of you going to hell so high, I suppose there's nothing left for me to do but to tell you to...
Enjoy hell!

>>17805883

You have no right to ask whether the tree would bear fruit if you do not bother asking how to cultivate the seeds

People of faith couldn't care less about hell.
We just wanted to fulfill our mission and then go home for judgement

>>17805893
Yeah, so I'm sure you will enjoy hell without any complaining! So enjoy it!

>>17805895
Your problem is that you are asking the wrong questions

The question isn't about Hell.
The question is whether you want to be with Jesus or not.

Don't do your mission because you fear his wrath
Do it because you recognize that he is right and the mission he gave fits you perfectly.

>>17805908
Yeah you think hell is totally irrelevant, so you won't mind at all if you go there. This is best demonstrated by the fact that you find the idea that you'll go to hell and the idea that you won't go to hell equally likely, and you don't seem disturbed in the least by this.
So enjoy it! Enjoy hell!

>>17805913
Bitch
I literally couldn't care less about hell
I just wanted to do my mission, and that's about it

You are too worried about your future; you neglect your present.
And your present needs to realize that Jesus is right and it is your duty to worship him lest you fall prey to self-destructive things

>>17805917
>I literally couldn't care less about hell
Yeah that's literally what I'm saying. You think there's a pretty high likelihood that you'll go there, but you don't care.
That's why I'm telling you to enjoy it! Enjoy hell!!!

>>17805250 (OP)
It's just one kid shitting up the board.

>Ehrm actually Christians don’t care about hell and aren’t afraid to go there
I find new and unique copes every time I visit this board. “Fire and brimstone” is now apparently a good thing, and those stories of Southern Baptist congregations crying and wailing and murdering each other out of terror of hell never happened.

>>17805250 (OP)
Non-believers getting the eternal torment they deserve because they rebelled against the God they knew*
fixed

Just non-stop crying about "HE'S LE GOING TO PUNISH YOU TO HELL" while ignoring every other thing that's good to live by. What is so fucking great about the world we live in today, where we have to scoff at helping one another and being good as The Bible teaches? Self-enlightenment fedoras just walk around getting reamed in the ass and allow misery to just breed like mushrooms in shit while smugly smirking that they're owning the Christians. Bunch of clowns.

>>17806657
It's not that we are not "afraid" of hell.
It's more like we have faith in God's judgement, and whatever he does is just.
If he saves me, I will rejoice
If he condemns me, I will mourn

But there shall be no protest.

And yes, every American protees are wackos. Do not touch

>>17805387
Doesn’t Jesus say you go to Hell for calling people fools in the Sermon on the Mount? I’m not sure calling people “absolute shits” is the best move.

>>17806787
Speaking the truth is not a sin
Jesus called many people fools, wolves, goats, and sons of Satan

>>17806682
>Self-enlightenment fedoras just walk around getting reamed in the ass and allow misery to just breed like mushrooms in shit while smugly smirking that they're owning the Christians. Bunch of clowns.
Yeah bro, it’s atheists fault that the world sucks. It’s not like humanity has been ruled by religious leadership for the last 12,000 years. It’s not like the majority of world leaders today are also religious. It’s not like the USA has never had an openly atheist president or anything.

Seriously, what world do you retards live in? Atheists have never ruled the world at any point in history, and yet everything went to shit once the “atheists took over” (which never happened).
>The Chinese rulers cutting off young men’s cock and balls and shoving tubes in their piss holes?
Religious.
>The Italians chopping off young men’s balls so they’d sing better.
Also religious.

“How long, Lord, shall the wicked—How long shall the wicked triumph?” - Psalm 94:3

Wow, that world sounds like it sucks. I wonder what atheists were ruling the Divided Kingdom of Israel in ~550BC. Oh that’s right, fucking none of them. They were led by warring factions of Temple Judaism.

Fucking retard. You dipshits aren’t even fucking real.

>>17807089
Your nihilistic Atheist experiment was given the green light and we said "Alright, show us your way". It failed in an embarrassingly spectacular fashion and now we're all left picking up the pieces of your crash. God will pick up where you dummies failed.

>>17807034
He was also morally perfect and literally God, giving him the right to be as judgemental as he wants. You aren't and are commanded by him not to act that way.

>>17807146
Nah, misinterpreting core doctrines makes you an absolute shit
Jesus never said "judge not", for that omits the rest of the passage. He said be wise in your judgement

>>17807138
>Your nihilistic Atheist experiment was given the green light
It wasn’t. This never happened. Atheists have never been the majority of world leaders. There’s only a handful even today.
>and we said "Alright, show us your way".
No you didn’t.
>It failed in an embarrassingly spectacular fashion
You can’t fail at something that never happened.
>and now we're all left picking up the pieces of your crash.
What the fuck are you even talking about schizo? The US has never even had an atheist president.
>God will pick up where you dummies failed.
Yeah, because things were just so awesome in 400 BC when all of humanity was religiously ruled. Except for all the religious writings from that time period where religious scholars lamented how terrible the world is (the world they ruled). Ya know, like the Bible.

Do you faggots even realize how retarded you are?

>>17807303
>It wasn’t. This never happened. Atheists have never been the majority of world leaders. There’s only a handful even today.
You're right, Satanists have been, and Atheists gleefully followed them in their godless depravity. Take a good look around at what happened when Atheists were given the toys of the kingdom to play with while their masters egged them on. The great God rejection experiment has failed and now you want to pout and try to finger Christians for your woes. Turns out, Christianity tried to warn you what would happen if you weren't aware of evil and just went on your own way, you just didn't want to hear it and still don't want to hear it. Go on, get more angry and shit your pants while you provide zero solutions (solutions that have already been presented, mind you) and keep clinging to the fail boat that Atheism has sunk you with.

>>17807343
>Take a good look around at what happened when Atheists were given the toys of the kingdom to play with while their masters egged them on.
There’s nothing to look at you fucking retard. This never happened. You are fucking delusional. Christians have ruled the Western world for the last 2 millenia. Everything you hate about the world is the same as what the writer of Psalms was lamenting in 500 BC. Even today, Christians still rule the Western world. Everything that upsets you is a result of your Christian brethren running the planet.

You are not oppressed. You are the majority. Your religious group, even today, is in charge of the government, just as it has been for 250 years.

>>17805387
>Jesus even waived away the cost so you don't have to pay equal amounts to the damage you have brought
Then why is the Catholic church still begging for cash

>>17807358
>There’s nothing to look at you fucking retard
Obviously, it's the dawn of a new day! Don't worry about a fucking thing! I love OnlyFans and kids becoming indoctrinated to think mutilating their bodies is progressive! Young men and women killing themselves more than ever before? Part and parcel of our new (totally not Satanically run) utopia!

>>17807392
>I love OnlyFans
OnlyFans is owned by a religious Jew, not an atheist. Once again, you are blaming atheism for something ran by religious leadership
>and kids becoming indoctrinated to think mutilating their bodies is progressive!
The Catholic Church castrated boys for centuries. Not to mention circumcision in the USA is largely because of religious-reasoning.
>Young men and women killing themselves more than ever before?
About 60% of sewerslides are committed by Americans who identify as Christian.

>Part and parcel of our new (totally not Satanically run) utopia!
Yeah, this is a Christian run utopia.

>>17805387
>disingenuous anon tries to make it seem like a simple choice
>It's actually a lifelong process where 99.999% don't pass in
>You make one mistake you're back to square one
>if you die before being forgiven again then tough shit
>but free will is totally a gift bro

>>17805874
if you're really born again god will interject in your inner monologue and tell you stuff. you should just be able to ask if you're saved. if you can't you haven't actually repented yet

>>17807736
>prot cope

>>17807358
>This never happened.
You have atheist countries right now

>>17807672
It is a simple choice
Jesus do not care about the results. He cares about your heart

You will not be judged based on quantity or quality of your works. But by the purity of your heart itself

You can be the most heinous criminal in the world. But if you showed guilt and repentance before you die, rest assured that you are in good hands

>>17807499
80% of atheists can't define a woman

>>17807884
I'm by no means a cath or ortho but protestantism all steam from the fact Martin Luther couldn't cope with the fact that he knew he couldn't be good enough to be saved which is one of the reasons why he left the church. catholic is basically the darkest black pill disguised as a white pill

>>17807901
stems*

>>17807901
Nope
His teachings was not from the Church but from himself.
In fact, he once opened up about his insecurities over his salvation and he was told outright by his superior that God does not hate him. It is him who hated God

He even admitted it himself that sometimes, he hated the righteous God because he believes that God requires perfect obedience

The problem with Luther is that he keeps on measuring faith by observing works. He was under the impression that Faith is something that we hate to work for

When in reality, it's the otherway around
Faith is something we work *from
Faith comes first and then works
People get saved first then they act like one.

Again and again, the Church tells everyone over and over that Heaven is not a reward for your hardwork. It is a gift freely given so that none may boast. The only question is whether you wanted to accept it.
Bear in mind that to accept glory means to accept the sacrifice. The glory of heaven demands the sacrifice of your ego

>>17806662
seething at this thread doesn't change anyone's mind

>>17807927
>People get saved first then they act like one.
this is a protestant belief

>>17807958
No. There are multiple verses where Jesus implied that Faith is reflected in one's actions.
It is not actions that create faith. It is faith that create actions

>>17807967
yet if you stumble you lose that "free gift" and need to be forgiven by going to someone in the church that can forgive you.

>>17807998
The point of confessional is to ensure that you are forgiven and grant you the sacrament of Penance. But it is not Christ

Not to say that you don't need it. But if you wanted to ensure that you have properly reconciled, it is recommended that you confess to a priest

>>17808005
>The point of confessional is to ensure that you are forgiven
it is required, if you stumble every second that you haven't been re-forgiven again means you risk dying and going to hell.

>>17808011
It is required that you confession
Confessing to a priest is just recommended because you don't know if you are forgiven until your confession was heard by someone with the authority to grant you the Sacrament of Penance

>>17808014
all of this makes it way more than just a simple choice, you're just gaslighting people into thinking it's just a protestant level religion. protestants believe that faith shows works but what's different is that they don't believe you have to run to confession every 2 hours for your entire life. if you can't be sure if god has forgiven you, how can you be sure you're going to be saved? Even if you're a life long christian from childhood.

>>17805250 (OP)
So you can't even use the free will to not suffer since the most common use case is to make others suffer, you can't even be something other than you, and you can never do otherwise?
How exactly is it free? It sounds incredibly restricted to me.

>>17805256
Its because they worship a demon.
Notice it only gives its followers the ability to murder people, not to prevent themselves from ever being murdered unless of course you think the only reason Abel was murdered was because its what he wanted, in which case how can you even blame Cain for doing what Abel forced him to do?

>>17808030
But you do have to confess every time you become aware of your sins
You don't have to go to the confessional all the time but at least confess to God.

The point of confessional is to ensure you are forgiven. Far too often, people see confessions as a car wash.
A confessional will tell you outright that you cannot be forgiven if you will not face the consequences of your actions like adultery and thievery. You have to confess it to your wife and return what you stole

You are assured of your salvation by having faith in Christ but you cannot go out of your way declaring that you are already destined to Heaven. Once saved always saved is a heresy.
You do not know the future and you do not really see your heart - that is for God alone.

Your only duty is to remain faithful no matter what. Whatever happens next is up to God

>>17808058
It's mostly just an excuse so that people can always be sent to hell. even in catholism unborn children that don't get baptized and die get sent to hell because of the actions they would've done if they had the chance because of the choices adam and eve did. free will is the ultimate curse god can inflict on someone that's veiled as a "gift".

>>17808066
are you a catholic?

>>17808089
he is, i think

>>17808073
>even in catholism unborn children that don't get baptized and die get sent to hell
No, unborn like young children go to purgatory in catholic lore.

>>17808073
>unborn children that don't get baptized and die get sent to hell
No, unborn and young children go to limbo in catholic lore.

>>17808089
Yes I am and the confession is not an excuse to continue sinning. It is for reconciliating your relationship with God

It is not a car wash

>>17808145
Then why do you get more than one confession?
If you confess to doing the same wrong thing more than once, why are you still allowed to go through the ritual with the priest if your logic holds?

>>17808179
You are expected to fail but at the same time, you are expected to take your renewed relationship seriously

You have to put in the effort to not do it again.
Take it seriously. God is not a system you can cheat. He is a person who can tell if you are making light of your offense

>>17808196
>You are expected to fail but at the same time, you are expected to take your renewed relationship seriously
So just like car washes exist because it is expected that cars will regularly get dirty even though the drivers usually try to avoid it to preserve the life of the car, but can't help it in a world caked in dirt?

>>17808207
Take it seriously, dumbass
As in you get closer and closer to actually becoming perfect

You are not washing yourself.
You are reconciling with the Lord for your offense and taking his mercy for granted is no different from not apologizing at all.

>>17808210
So why does there need to be some middle man who tells you that you are absolved of your sins if there is no actual cleansing and its only about you and Loyd?

>>17808239
The duty of the priest is to administer the sacraments
And, again, there is cleansing that happens in confessions. BUT do not take it lightly

God's mercy and grace is not a license to sin

>>17808248
>And, again, there is cleansing that happens in confessions.
No originally you said
>>>17808066
>You do not know
>>17808145
>It is not a car wash

>BUT do not take it lightly
You assume I take a car wash lightly, do you even know how much the dog will freak out if I take it lightly while going through the car wash?

>God's mercy and grace is not a license to sin
Him explicitly providing evil and doing nothing to actively protect his own children from evil was the license.

tl;dr, confession is just a car wash for the catholic soul.

>>17808265
Take it seriously
If you don't intend to not do it again, you don't intend to ask for forgiveness

>>17808321
So people without an internal monologue can't sin since they don't have the ability to form internalized intentions?

>>17808100
limbo is in hell anon

There is no “free will”.

>>17805913
>Yeah you think hell is totally irrelevant, so you won't mind at all if you go there.
the man who obsesses over Hell does so because he already _knows_ he has one foot in it. Do you think saints worry about whether their actions might net them Hell, or do you think they just focused on doing the Lord's work with no expectation whatsoever of actually making it?

>>17808900
making a single mistake means that you've instantly loss you chance of avoiding it. even scripture from cath and orthos say that it is infinitely more likely you're going to hell than heaven and even prots believe that most people are going to hell. the whole point of the thread is that "free will" and by extension our whole existence is constantly portrayed as a good thing and to our benefit but every single consequence ever because of them has only ever been negative to the most extreme degree. especially since god likes to "test" us like with adam and eve. even if eve didn't eat the apple the first time, there's no reason to believe that would be the only attempt. at some point they're gonna fuck up, despite not having cosmic aids "original sin" but that fact that WE had to be born with it too alongside the scam that is "free will" means we're absolutely fucked. why take the 99.9999999999999% chance that i go to hell when i could just be a non-free will creature and NOT burn for all eternity.

>>17805577
this, they can't actually argue against it so they dance around the actual issue

>>17805692
>Jesus never expects any of us to actually reach perfection
Matthew 5:48
>Jesus' standards are not fair. It's overwhelmingly in your favor.
Matthew 7:13-14

>>17805571
What is your definition of God?

>>17805577
>I love how you are wrong.
This is the sin he is talking about. You love this sin more than truth.

>>17809034
>>17808957

>>17808964
>Matthew 5:48
This word, (teleios), is about wholeness, or completion. In the context of the teachings around it, its more about having a complete faith with your neighbor, than it is about some kind of isolated "perfect" static state.

>>17809050
>>17809030

>>17809056
>>17807929

>>17808949
>making a single mistake
all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven

>>17809063
>>17809030

>>17809073
i am not >>17809030
sorry retard
>>17809070
yet it's extremely easy to still fall short at the very end even if you spent your entire life trying not to sin. you're always back to square one

>>17808900
>Do you think saints worry about whether their actions might net them Hell, or do you think they just focused on doing the Lord's work with no expectation whatsoever of actually making it?
We have literal personal journals from saints where they describe their fear of hell and their worry that they’ll go there. Read Mother Theresa’s personal writings.

I swear, Catholics are the dumbest retards on the planet. They speak in obviously false platitudes.

>>17809149
This is not true, actually

They fear hell not because they are going there
They fear it for people who live their lives unaware or blatantly deny its existence.

St. Therese of Avila was said to have personally seen it, and she spent much of her life in grief for all the people who ended up there.

St. Jacinta was said to have seen "children" in hell, but she knew that they weren't children. They were priests who corrupted the funds of the Church and died without confessing. They look like children there to show their spirits, who never matured. Her experience was taken as a warning for the people of the Church to be responsible for their role

There is a difference between the crippling fear of hell and the fear of being separated from God.
Holy fear motivates you to live closer to God

>>17809300
That's cringe to me because God obv. doesn't want anyone to live in fear, that would make him evil

>>17806662
>you get to hang out with cool skeletons in a medieval castle and get to relax in front of a rad fireplace with them in hell
>even has scented candles
I dont know man, doesnt seem that bad

>>17809404
Duh.
The point is for you to get closer to God.

If you fear hell but refuse God, you will be left with either terror or denial of hell.

>>17809300
You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. All the drivel you wrote is pure cope.

“I am told God loves me — and yet the reality of darkness and coldness and emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul.”

“I call, I cling, I want — and there is no One to answer.”

“If I ever become a saint — I will surely be one of ‘darkness’. I will continually be absent from Heaven — to light the light of those in darkness on earth.”

All written by Mother Teresa in either personal journals or private letters. Mother Teresa stated that she had felt a deep absence of god for over 50 years.

Yes, plenty of Saints feared themselves winding up in hell. There’s plenty more writings on that topic if you’d bother to fucking use Google instead of repeating your mindless drivel.

>>17809700
You cannot use moments of weakness as an argument.
Every prophet had moments of doubt
Even the apostles who witnessed him in the flesh betrayed him for their own sake

In any case, they lived their lives in faith and never truly fell
We know this by the fact that Sainthood is declared only after the person dies, but they are still fully capable of performing miracles. You need at least 2 miracles to be declared as one

>>17809797
>Moment of weakness
>50 years

>>17810140
catholics can't actually argue in good faith because it completely btfos their "hope" if they admit that the chances of actually being saved are extremely slim.

>>17809495
>>17809700

>>17810260
>catholics can't actually argue in good faith because it completely btfos their "hope" if they admit that the chances of actually being saved are extremely slim.
The tradtards on here don’t actually know Catholic theology (or any theology), so they just argue their retarded personal opinions and present them as the theological framework of the Catholic Church (or whatever other denomination).

It’s always a pointless argument because you have to actually teach them what they “believe” (since they subscribe to Catholicism or Orthodoxy typically). Once you’ve educated them on their own religion, then you can actually debate their theology. But you never actually reach this point because it would take hours to explain to them that what they’re saying is actually heresy and the Catholic Church would have arrested them for saying such things in the past.

I had a similar issue in a previous thread with a “based TradCath” who was arguing that Jesus took every soul in hell that died prior to 33 AD (like 80 billion people) and took them to heaven. Basically some weird cross between Universalism and the Harrowing of Hell, and he simply refused to admit that almost no denominations subscribe to that interpretation. The most common interpretation is Jesus only saved Biblical figures like Moses, or the righteous only, or even that every soul was given a choice, but most refused. Regardless, every major church believes that the majority of people born prior to 33 AD are currently burning in hell, and he refused to concede this despite being a “TradCath” who apparently subscribes to Universalism.

>>17805250 (OP)
Real people want to be free innately and inherently. If freedom is not infinitely valuable for you, you were a flesh robot all along.

>>17805250 (OP)
When it comes to a question of this sort, you have as much choice as a person getting robbed/raped/etc at gunpoint. Sure, you can resist and get shot, or you can co-operate and hopefully avoid getting shot. You may get shot anyway, though.
I guess that's the point of the framework.

>>17810366
It makes it hard to even take any of the seriously when most of the "Christians" on almost any part of the internet just pulling shit out of their ass that sounds vaguely christian just to make a counter argument to something.

>>17805834
if god gave us a choice to have free will and end up in hell or to not have free will and not end up in hell almost no one would be in hell.

In the actual framework of consensual reality, most people do not have free will. They don't have God's will either. They just answer to the fabric put forth by others that shapes every aspect of their understanding and reasoning over what is considered reality.

Free will does not exist because we do not have free will from consequence. Everything is entangled. We do not have free will from one another, ourselves as we are, or from anything in this existence. It is effectively, a prison.

>>17810440
>It makes it hard to even take any of the seriously when most of the "Christians" on almost any part of the internet just pulling shit out of their ass that sounds vaguely christian just to make a counter argument to something.
Yes, the stereotypical “atheist vs. Christian” debate where the atheist knows more about the Bible than the Christian. The Christian continually appeals to his own ignorance and leaves the debate feeling he won after unwittingly debating and defeating the Bible itself.

Jordan Peterson does a great job of this with his retarded wordplay where he thinks he can feign Christian without disclosing his actual, personal beliefs. But whenever Jordan Peterson rebukes some college student, Peterson is actually rebuking the Bible because the Bible has some very strong words for those who deny Jesus, or hide their faith, or are neither “for Him or against Him,” but lukewarm.

But none of this matters because Jordan has never read the Bible.

>>17805250 (OP)
The free will spiel isn't even in the bible

>>17812055
Galatians 6:7 - a man reaps what he sows.

>>17810366
I actually prefer this because it means i dont have to read crappy book from 2000 years ago. Its instead a logical game where the opposing side has to work with many puzzles pieces that do not fit with eachother cause they keep up with it on the spot
Thats so much more fun than arguing about quotes in a book

>>17812070
So I can sow free will without consequence? No. It is not even a guarantee granted following the dissolution of evil in the end. Only a possibility presented. And if that is something that was written or entertained at all, then was anything we did right or wrong? Only in the context of God's interpretation is that such. Perception.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"

So it effectively does not matter. It never did. Only to God. And that is to say all was interpreted fully and clearly, and not otherwise manipulated or exploited through interpretations shifting between the literal and metaphorical. What is right to man? What is truth to man? Do you know, or do you only know what is told and given to you to read?

>>17805250 (OP)
God can do anything. He chooses to let you choose your destiny, or at least to think that you can choose your destiny. Did you even know you could know your true Identity?

In the end you and God are one. Jesus figured this one out and showed the way for you to do the same, but are you like Jesus in any sort of way? Are you following his teachings?

>>17805250 (OP)
I can't square free will mathematically either, at least from the traditional Christian view. Work with me here:
>Free will, put simply, is the ability for an individual to choose freely between the series of options put before them.
>Under a Christian framework, however, every option except one will lead to an eternity of damnation and suffering.
>With no free will, we would all be guaranteed the correct option, and nobody would suffer or be damned.
>With free will, the avenue for salvation is still option, but we are now gifted the ability to choose damnation.
So the only material thing free will does for humanity is give us hell? The entire system of retribution and punishment is only necessary because of free will. Can this be explained away? It seems like free will is the worst of all possible gifts to give someone.

>>17812703
Its more like he forces you to choose your own destiny. Theres no "i dont want free will and the consequences that comes with it" option

Man i could have been an angel vibing in heaven going through the motions and living the dream. But alas, i was born a monkey with nuclear codes that could send me to hell

>>17813031
If you think that angels have no free will and the consequences that comes with it, you are out of your fucking mind

>>17812903
We must put our free will to good usage and worship the Lord. God wants genuine followers made in his image, not automatons without free will and without real spirits of their own.

>>17812903
Yes the jewgod is an insane schizo who created this reality just so most people can be tortured on earth then tortured again according to the bible

>>17813652
Nobody asked for his sick audition. I am not responsible because no variable in my life is my will. I am not responsible because I never consented to exist either. I was forced to be here. Which is a violation of my free will.

All these tests are designed to make you fail (man was created with sin nature, man can never overcome sin). He even created Lucifer just to make things more miserable like the deranged piece of shit that he is.

He's a psycho that's using entrapment and victim blaming

>>17813674
You are yapping like a child
Your mom just told you to sleep early and eat your vegetables. What are you throwing a hissy fit for

>>17814235
>abuse is normal in this family

this is why everyone hates you christkike

>>17814244
You got spanked for being a little shit

>>17814247
Ok, don't complain when (you) get spanked and permanently locked in the basement
>inb4 "i won't get spanked" (you will)

>>17814290
You are being thrown out because you don't want the rules that keep the house tidy. Do as you will outside with the likes of you

>>17814310
You say this as if the exact same isn't gonna happen to you despite the fact you tried your hardest to not get kicked out

>>17814356
Plead for mercy and we'll see

>>17814376
what about the billions of souls that also did the same but got kicked out? How am i to expect different?

>>17814423
God is just
No one's getting kicked with a right reason
No one's staying who don't recognize who's in charge

>>17814453
except that the standards are so high nearly everyone gets kicked out >>17808964
but keep being a disingenuous about the actual point of the thread. I'd rather not exist then be sent to hell. >>17809149

>>17814472
Plead for mercy

>>17814475
>copy pastes response without reading anything

>>17814477
Cast your pride and ask for forgiveness

>>17814482
>>17814477

>>17814500
Is pride too valuable for you?

>>17814504
>>17814477

>>17807173
He also said he who is free of sin first cast the stone

>>17814519
Context:
The law states that both the man and the woman were to be killed
They stoned only the woman, which is a grave sin of hypocrisy

The Pharisees led Christ there precisely to catch him
If he stopped it, they could accuse him of not respecting the Jewish Law
If he allowed it, it would be an act of rebellion against Rome, which has a monopoly on death sentences

His response was to write on the sand - a reminder that the 10 commandments were written by his own fingers, and they are trying to use it against him/

>>17813548
>If you think that angels have no free will and the consequences that comes with it, you are out of your fucking mind
The normal interpretation of angels in many denominations is that they are soulless, heavely creatures that serve god without free will. Islam typically subscribe to this as well.

How this belief meshes with “satan’s rebellion” I do not know, but most of satan’s lore is extrabiblical. There’s nothing in the Bible about him being the angel of music, or rebelling against god, or being cast out before the beginning of time or whatever. Satan is literally in heaven in Job, which makes no sense.

A lot of the idea of Satan comes from the Book of Enoch (which Satan doesn’t actually appear in lol) and traditions and fictional texts like Paradise Lost.

>>17814732
Satan literally means "adversary."
Angel's Free Will was made apparent in the Book of Job.

Job went through absolute shit because Satan wanted to prove God wrong. And if he is wrong, it would sow doubts amongst the angels.
Heaven was at stake.

You are speaking heresy
The same gnostic heresy that tries to make Satan look good.

>>17814732
Also, Satan is not in "heaven" in the book of Job
He is in the " heavenly court", where criminals are tried in front of the judge and the jury