Thread 17895495 - /his/ [Archived: 5 hours ago]

Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:44:34 AM No.17895495
German Reich flags and LGBT flags
German Reich flags and LGBT flags
md5: cef453dd2b93b42ba52e19220cc413a9๐Ÿ”
i'm not trying to be funny or edgy or anything here
i genuinely do not know how to come up with a single argument against nazi germany anymore
Replies: >>17895501 >>17895505 >>17895511 >>17895524 >>17895525 >>17895533 >>17895540 >>17895560 >>17895562 >>17895565 >>17895572 >>17895582 >>17895625 >>17895631 >>17895640 >>17895806 >>17895984
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:47:31 AM No.17895501
>>17895495 (OP)
If you canโ€™t find a single argument against Nazi Germany, a regime built on genocide, aggressive war, and racial slavery, you're either trolling or need to hit the history books. Start with the Holocaust's 6 million dead, then add the millions more slaughtered in their imperial madness.
Replies: >>17895504 >>17895558 >>17895668 >>17896151
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:47:57 AM No.17895504
>>17895501
>against Nazi Germany, a regime built on genocide, aggressive war, and racial slavery
how is that any different to the US
Replies: >>17895508 >>17895533 >>17895578
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:48:05 AM No.17895505
360e0xymklk61
360e0xymklk61
md5: 283f3b91491cc6c030ad518b5304743e๐Ÿ”
>>17895495 (OP)
>DUDE FAGGOTS LMAO
>I JUST SAW A NIGGER DRIVING A CAR
>AAAHHH
I just don't want to be ruled by a militaristic socialist state run by failed men with oppressive policies based on dubious classifications of race. That's all.
Replies: >>17895522 >>17895573 >>17895639 >>17895705
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:49:32 AM No.17895508
>>17895504
> whataboutism
Replies: >>17895573
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:50:46 AM No.17895511
5e4bb71515e9f97c270fe2a4
5e4bb71515e9f97c270fe2a4
md5: 630ac48349b9af5a98b7b28ea761621c๐Ÿ”
>>17895495 (OP)
>i genuinely do not know how to come up with a single argument against nazi germany
They lost to the might of the Eurasian war machine
Replies: >>17895514 >>17895597 >>17895705
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:52:49 AM No.17895514
6546457
6546457
md5: b2abcc34c1dce3fb875a80d7af71f4c7๐Ÿ”
>>17895511
Anglos and Germans keep taking Ls . .
Replies: >>17895648
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:55:38 AM No.17895522
>>17895505
Also I want to deindustrialize society, castrate children, state enforced catamites, paki rape gangs, surveillance of the internet and an ideologically driven legislature. Thats all, why are you so hateful chud?
Replies: >>17895528 >>17895530 >>17895536 >>17895549 >>17895888
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:56:13 AM No.17895524
>>17895495 (OP)
They killed the most white people in history
Replies: >>17895559 >>17895666
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:56:14 AM No.17895525
>>17895495 (OP)
>bankrupted Germany by taking on huge debt never intended to be paid back
>invaded neutral European nations
>executed a young woman for "treason" (she was an antiwar activist)
>broke nearly every treaty
>claimed they were angry about post- Versailles borders and then started gobbling up land that was never German in the first place
>were mostly failsons who had terrible management skills in their respective offices of government
>claimed they wanted to go curb the power of wealthy influential jews; ended up killing a bunch of low class nobodies with peasant surnames
>actively destabilized European control in colonized regions
Don't read into it too much OP, since you're a retarded black gorilla nigger and a waste of space on this board.
Replies: >>17895573
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:57:38 AM No.17895528
1753673323841069
1753673323841069
md5: 7a358c149b6a5d1c7b858eee0c8a5f5f๐Ÿ”
>>17895522
>DUDE PAKIS AND TRANNY CHILDREN
you guys have a standardized script you go off of or is it like when you train a parrot?
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:58:39 AM No.17895530
>>17895522
> paki rape gangs
instead of nazi rape gangs?
Replies: >>17896253
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 9:59:28 AM No.17895533
>>17895495 (OP)
Their economic system literally didnt work. They were shit at war. There I listed 2 for you.
>>17895504
The US wanted things. Land, resources. Sane things, things, every human has always wanted, since Alexander the great and to the hunters and gatherers. Nazi's meanwhile literally expended desperately needed resources hurting to exterminate people who were either their citizens or zero threat to them. Thats what makes Genocide different than War. War is normal and human genocide is death purely for the sake of death and thats inhuman.
Replies: >>17895573 >>17895619 >>17895786
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:00:31 AM No.17895536
48yktl~2
48yktl~2
md5: d3f531aeb7380658a7df121bfdae90ca๐Ÿ”
>>17895522
>castrate children

The government established the Sonder Kommission Nr.3 ("Special Commission 3") and appointed Eugen Fischer, of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute of Anthropology, Human Heredity, and Eugenics, to head it. He was tasked with preventing procreation and reproduction by Rhineland bastards. It was decided that anyone so deemed would be sterilized under the 1933 Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring.[1]

The program began in 1937, when local officials were asked to identify all Rhineland bastards under their jurisdiction.[1] All together, some 800 children of mixed parentage were arrested and sterilized. According to Susan Samples, the Nazis went to great lengths to conceal their sterilization and abortion program.[1]
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:03:40 AM No.17895540
>>17895495 (OP)
>be Nazi or u are gay
the average westerner in 1940 didn't like fags or Nazis. these are not the minors on your discord who fall for this entry level gaslighting, retardo
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:05:51 AM No.17895549
>>17895522
>surveillance of the internet
>an ideologically driven legislature
do you really think Nazi Germany didn't have an ideologically driven legislature and wouldn't have censored the internet if they lived long enough to get the chance
Replies: >>17895555 >>17895557
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:07:14 AM No.17895555
>>17895549
It was common sense legislature not an ideologically driven shibboleth like we have today in western countries.
Replies: >>17895579
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:07:42 AM No.17895557
>>17895549
He's probably an amerimutt. They think Nazi Germany was like a libertarian state except racism was allowed. I'm not even exaggerating they're really this detached from European history.
Replies: >>17895676
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:08:12 AM No.17895558
>>17895501
I won't even accuse you of anything, is this your first day browsing 4chan...? The fuck
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:08:25 AM No.17895559
>>17895524
How many English people died during WWII and have many of them were killed by Germans? To be honest I doubt that there were a lot of white people who died in WWII, most of the Europeans who died during WWII were probably German.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:09:30 AM No.17895560
>>17895495 (OP)
I know this is a weird, shitty time and that our leaders are garbage, but don't be a Nazi.
Replies: >>17895683
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:11:01 AM No.17895562
>>17895495 (OP)
Somewhat related, but I think a good barometer as to whether or not someone would have been a Nazi is to know what their opinion of LGBT is. Supporting something that's obviously wrong solely due to group pressure.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:11:46 AM No.17895565
>>17895495 (OP)
I don't want to be killed, exiled, or have my rights stripped away because I'm not White or German.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:13:27 AM No.17895572
>>17895495 (OP)
They murdered millions of whites.
Replies: >>17895575 >>17895586 >>17895597
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:13:53 AM No.17895573
Harry Truman picking a side in World War 2
Harry Truman picking a side in World War 2
md5: 306a71ab27bb9b57ed8aa9309d80943e๐Ÿ”
>>17895505
nor do i but i've been thinking about it a little over the past few months and my conclusion is that the nazi party would have changed somewhat dramatically had the war been stopped by someone with power like churchill, for example
why, you ask? simple - look at the way the ruling party and the nation developed over time, it was merely responding to external factors just as much, if not more, than it was putting it's own ideology into practice
look at britain for example; nobody then in the 1940s would have believed that an indian or a pakistani would become prime minister or mayor of london but it happened simply because they were given no alternative and alternative is the keyword here because much of what i've discovered about 19th and 20th century history and politics has been the result almost purely of wealthy influential background actors dictating what happens to nations - the alternative would have been to arrange a peace deal with the nazis but that was impossible as actors behind the scenes were pulling the strings - see the european banker who funded churchill only because he stood up to hitler

>>17895508
you either agree with me that both were in the wrong or you agree with me that both were in the right

>>17895533
it's disheartening to see that nobody can seem to come up with a proper refutation of my comparison

>>17895525
none of those are really meaningful arguments against nazi germany's place in the eschatological/weltgeist sense, which is the only one that truly matters, morally speaking
Replies: >>17895587 >>17895603
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:14:13 AM No.17895575
>>17895572
Those were inferior whites. Might makes right.
Replies: >>17895591
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:15:20 AM No.17895578
>>17895504
America didn't kill millions of White Europeans in order to settle their frontier. Maybe a few in skirmishes with other colonists allied to the local Indians.
Replies: >>17895597
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:15:34 AM No.17895579
>>17895555
>it was common sense bro
>getting yourself into a pointless war because autist in charge seethed at some poles, thats common sense bro
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:16:17 AM No.17895582
Baron von Steuben Drilling Troops at Valley Forge, by E. A. Abbey (c. 1904), Pennsylvania State Capitol, Harrisburg
>>17895495 (OP)
There really ain't one, chief.
The only one I can even come up with anymore is that they were the enemy of the Anglosphere and our enemy long before Nazism was even a thing, too.
Yeah there was a period of polite cooperation but pretty much after Bismarck it all went downhill from there.
Nobody was amused by Germany's constant sabre-rattling. They were the one guy at the function who always ends up rambling on and on about violence and fights he's been in, telling stories with gratuitous detail. People are made grossly uncomfortable by that guy; nobody with a high IQ is impressed.
But if there's one thing at least America has always stressed, it's that they have no eternal enemies.
If it wasn't for certain Germs like Steuben, the US wouldn't even exist. As much as a distaste for Germans grew up from the Hessians, there were plenty in the Old Stock who were as American as anybody.
I think the real trick to getting Americans to ever consider German ideas or National Socialism lies in a mutual respect. Most of us had WW2 ancestors that we knew and were some of the most Based White people we'd ever met. The idea they're somehow no good and their martial feats deserve this constant ridicule is just so vulgar to most White Americans. It's not Aryan behavior at all, which has always had an idea of what we would call, "chivalry," i.e. respect for the opponent who puts up a good fight.
But yeah, OP. We're in Weimar Conditions and it's obvious Weimar Solutions are coming. I'm seeing normies post things on main that I never would've seen years ago. I've even started shitposting on Main a bit and the positive reactions I've gotten from certain things are very telling.
The window has shifted. The Jews has over-played his hand. You can't close Pandora's Box on this.
Replies: >>17895595
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:17:14 AM No.17895586
>>17895572
Less than one million white people died during WWII.
Replies: >>17895590
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:17:16 AM No.17895587
>>17895573
>none of those are really meaningful arguments against nazi germany's
They are. You just can't muster up any counter points. It's fine though, we have plenty of retards like you who hop from one bad faith argument to the next.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:18:08 AM No.17895590
>>17895586
so you're saying those eight million germans that died weren't white
Replies: >>17895598
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:18:21 AM No.17895591
>>17895575
>inferior whites
Every neo Nazi is a jewish false flagger until proven brown third worldist.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:20:19 AM No.17895595
1739754-Heraclitus-Quote-You-cannot-step-into-the-same-river-twice
>>17895582
> We're in Weimar Conditions
lol this one is hysterical
Replies: >>17895696
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:20:39 AM No.17895597
>>17895578
>>17895572
yeah, those millions of white europeans who were killed? are you talking about slavs? if not, then you must be talking about the western europeans, who declared war first so they were technically killed in self-defence so i'm not sure what you expect me to say to that
again, i don't like saying these things because it's painful, believe me, but what have they done that the other superpowers at the time didn't already do? trying to get a decent answer to that question is like pulling a god damn tooth out

>>17895511
you're forgetting the colossal might of american industry, which in my opinion was the main deciding factor of the war
Replies: >>17895601 >>17895609
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:21:24 AM No.17895598
>>17895590
How could they be?
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:22:15 AM No.17895601
>>17895597
>we're invading you in self defense
Replies: >>17895659
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:23:16 AM No.17895603
>>17895573
Literally no counterpoint. What was the benefit of expending resources killing german jews? When the US killed the native americans, the benefit was and is obvious, all the fucking land. Nobody ever wondered why. The holocaust is so inhuman millions dont even believe it happened. Thats evil.
Replies: >>17895629 >>17895659 >>17895699
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:26:51 AM No.17895609
>>17895597
I get that treaties mean nothing to a Nazi, but try as much as you want you arent going to make the false narrative of Allies starting WW2 stick. People are retarded, but not as retarded as you are.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:30:27 AM No.17895619
>>17895533
USA tried to genocide people because they heckin thought wrong though
Replies: >>17895638
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:32:27 AM No.17895625
>>17895495 (OP)
The right side of your pic likely would never have happened if the nazi retards didnt chimp out like they did.
Replies: >>17895698
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:33:43 AM No.17895629
>>17895603
> What was the benefit of expending resources killing german jews?
You do understand that Jews were at fault of Germany being reduced to shame of a nation after WWI? So that wouldn't repret again. And to not be at mercy of global cabal of bankers.
Replies: >>17895675 >>17895697
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:34:30 AM No.17895631
>>17895495 (OP)
The Allies built an objectively better world.
Replies: >>17895634
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:35:51 AM No.17895634
20240628150640_7ff698fa60e006ff61370551ba77b0aa5e5cc6eb7a27f18fa2e9b5895ef77c91
>>17895631
How is this better?
Replies: >>17895642
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:38:36 AM No.17895638
>>17895619
The US actively gave indians quarter, like the "civilized" tribes of the eastern US. Some assimilated or acted as interpreters. Others chose to go down fighting, and Americans today respect them for If.

If you were a jew or some other group the Nazis didn't like there was no pleading or legal channels for an appeal. You were kidnapped, had your property seized, or worked to death.
Replies: >>17895736 >>17895778
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:38:37 AM No.17895639
This World Belongs to Us
This World Belongs to Us
md5: 79be526de2d92f27542f24bbf61bcd17๐Ÿ”
>>17895505
>Faggots are actually aggressively pushing their extremely fringe sexual orientation to the forefront of a predominantly heterosexual society and actually have ruined the lives and taken the children of people who have tried to stop them.
>Niggers and their inability to function with good will in a White society are the reason we have militarized police, highly restrictive laws about things like alcohol and narcotics,
>Both groups have also gone on a warpath against everything Straight and White in White nations because they are making power grabs against the natives.
Yeah man, why would people be interested in an ideology that is the antithesis of all this kind of bullshit but was also actually successful in getting their nation back?
Also:
>doesn't want to be ruled by a militaristic socialist state
>posts WW2 Red Army guy
Nah you just want one that you think would benefit you. You could just admit that and be honest.
Replies: >>17895649 >>17895650 >>17895656 >>17895660 >>17895883
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:39:25 AM No.17895640
>>17895495 (OP)
>Trannies trannies trannies trannies trannies trannies trannies I AM NOT OBSESSED trannies trannies trannies trannies trannies trannies
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:40:10 AM No.17895642
>>17895634
Because Nazi Germany was an oppressive authoritarian shithole. Didn't expand image btw.
Replies: >>17895653
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:42:00 AM No.17895648
>>17895514
>be Blacks
>revolt against colonies
>form independent nations
>starve
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:43:12 AM No.17895649
>>17895639
I posted the red army guy because I know it gets under your skin to remember that you lost. The soviets were dealt with decades later, but they're a non-issue now. I didn't read the rest of your post btw. I just skimmed over it and saw the words nigger and white and immediately deduced that you were an overly emotional person not worth engaging with or taking seriously. I'm out.
Replies: >>17895704
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:43:22 AM No.17895650
>>17895639
This is just recycled fascist rhetoric. Blaming marginalized groups for societal problems while fetishizing a mythical muh pure past. The Red Army didn't fight to preserve bigotry. They crushed the Nazis who peddled this same garbage. If your ideology needs scapegoats instead of solutions, it's not strength... It's fucking cope.
Replies: >>17895708
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:44:30 AM No.17895653
>>17895642
> Nazi Germany was an oppressive authoritarian shithole.
And yet Hitler had 90% apporval rating unlike modern democratic leaders. Makes you think who is actually opressive one and who give people what they want.
Replies: >>17895655 >>17895662 >>17895670
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:45:47 AM No.17895655
367px-Sophie_Scholl - Tanja B. Spitzer
367px-Sophie_Scholl - Tanja B. Spitzer
md5: f36aa47b66285ba3acdd127fef27a3b7๐Ÿ”
>>17895653
>Makes you think who is actually opressive one
Probably the prussiapes who killed a young woman for passing out pamphlets.
Replies: >>17895712
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:47:14 AM No.17895656
>>17895639
>dude I hate gays and black people
that's all well and good, but I just don't want to be ruled by socialist prussiapes is all.
Replies: >>17895716
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:48:20 AM No.17895659
>>17895601
most of the countries that they invaded first didn't have their populations killed by the millions, in fact life had barely changed in some of them like france
the countries that were invaded first where civilians were killed in large numbers were casualties mainly of the heavy warfare that was occurring and of course you have civilians being murdered just because, civilians being murdered because they were partisans, civilians being murdered for ideological reasons and so on but there's too many different reasons for all of those to simply lump them in altogether to honestly say "civilians were killed, nazis are therefore bad"
i don't like seeing unarmed people losing their lives in a war, especially young children who don't have the ability to grasp what's going on but that's war
it breaks my heart but apart from them, in a civilization-defining war nobody is innocent

>>17895603
are you the anon that made the greentext list? it's starting to become difficult to keep track of who is replying to me
it's difficult to explain these things to someone who doesn't have a well-developed ethos when it comes to understanding world historical events and their axiomatic significance but i'll try
most of what you mentioned in that greentext list is insignificant; it makes no difference to the current situation as it unfolds as most of those things were already a common occurrence across most of the western world and the world at large and some still are to this day
the only one which wasn't, as far as i know, is the line about jews which i have mixed opinions about
what you have to understand is that everything flows; germany was simply the newest nation in a growing list of nations that had expanded its influence, population and borders to ridiculous bounds and it was beginning to become a little too crowded in the superpower world
there's a second crucial part to this but i'm hitting the character limit and i'm also tired so apologies if i don't finish it
Replies: >>17895675 >>17895679
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:49:06 AM No.17895660
>>17895639
I feel extremely embarrassed for your family.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:49:23 AM No.17895662
>>17895653
>And yet Hitler had 90% apporval rating
LMAO
The last time Hitler actually allowed the German people to have an opinion was in 1932, of which NSDAP recieved 33% of the vote.
The election that came after wouldnt pass as democratic even by Africa standards.

In the 1932 election the socialist parties recieved nearly 40% of the vote. Do you think these people just vanished after Hitler took power?
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:51:47 AM No.17895666
No More Brother Wars
No More Brother Wars
md5: be3100971bf8f6f98389116eb3f55bc5๐Ÿ”
>>17895524
Hitler was very emphatic about his respect for all Aryan peoples.
But what else was he supposed to do when these countries turned against him? Roll over and take it?
National Socialism was incredibly popular in the Anglosphere. Only Left-Wing types and people with serious Anti-Germ bias unreservedly hated them.
Replies: >>17895674
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:52:02 AM No.17895668
He cant keep getting away with this
He cant keep getting away with this
md5: a3fe4a8a7e30cba85c4e2beb3fef9d31๐Ÿ”
>>17895501
>and racial slavery,
That's rude. They enslaved multiple races and control of the slave trade was in the hands of quasi-state institutions, which makes it okay and fine.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:52:21 AM No.17895670
2JDV2NH
2JDV2NH
md5: 579b8812b0cc8710ef6f6b98d292a4ff๐Ÿ”
>>17895653
>here's those free and fair elections I was telling you about
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:54:11 AM No.17895674
>>17895666
>right wing is when Nazi
Retarded /pol/tranny. Collectivists will never be right wing. Socialism will never be right wing.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:55:24 AM No.17895675
>>17895629
You do realize, that germany lost on the battlefield correct? There was no major citizens movement that hamstrung the german warmachine. And there is no cabal of bankers who wield infinite power. Nations wield true power. capitalists try to get rich however they can, but nations have and will again fuck them over to their benefit whenever they want to. Money isnt power.
>>17895659
No idea what greentesxt list post you are talking about.
You are too stupid to understand the difference between genocide and war. Between weak and strong. The Nazi's were weak. And they made themselves weaker by expending huge amounts of resources killings jews and poles and gypsies. They put their enemies on death ground and guaranteed they would never surrender. They were a resource poor nation who started a war with the 2 largest naval powers on the planet, with no idea of how to beat 1 of them much less the second. They were retarded.
Replies: >>17895680
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:56:12 AM No.17895676
Your Heritage is Rebellion
Your Heritage is Rebellion
md5: fd77906ad3239681ab083599111cbbc7๐Ÿ”
>>17895557
Dude, Prison Planet is inevitable at this point.
What amounts to a military dictatorship is pretty much a necessary precursor to make the world safe and free enough for more liberal domestic societies.
The mistake that was made was thinking every country was capable of Liberal Democracy or that every race of peoples has the capacity to live in one, which real life is teaching us that they absolutely do not.
Also:
>amerimutt
I am so sick of this bullshit from Euros, like most of the White guys in England aren't fucking Polish.
70% of the White population in the US can still trace itself to the Old Stock. White Guilt has buried the statistics but they're out there.
These people had an average of 9 kids that lived to adulthood to reproduce.
Where do y'all think all their kids went?
Replies: >>17895681 >>17895690
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:58:31 AM No.17895679
>>17895659
>most of the countries that they invaded first didn't have their populations killed by the millions
This is literally not an argument to excuse the fact that +30 million Poles and Belarusians died becaue of German fuckery.

>too many different reasons for all of those to simply lump them in altogether to honestly say "civilians were killed, nazis are therefore bad"
Because the allies never went as far as the Germans/Japanese did.
There was no equivalent.
At best you could compare the Hunger Plan to the Bengal famine, since Britain neglected India in favor of feeding Britain, and Churchill made quite racist remarks when British officials urged him to do something to feed Bengal.
Still, it doesnt come close to eastern Europe.

>it's difficult to explain these things to someone who doesn't have a well-developed ethos
Probably because youre doing a shit job at presenting reasonable rational logical arguments that arent morally bankrupt and fundementally biased.

This is your problem, not ours.
Replies: >>17895721 >>17895736
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:58:54 AM No.17895680
>>17895675
> You do realize, that germany lost on the battlefield correct?
If they lost on the battlefield why allied army was never on German territory? They lost because of jewish betrayal and subterfege.
Replies: >>17895686 >>17895688 >>17895697 >>17896267
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 10:59:50 AM No.17895681
>>17895676
>The mistake that was made was thinking every country was capable of Liberal Democracy or that every race of peoples has the capacity to live in one,
Your president is a corrupt pedophile who uses the FBI to scrub his name, though. You're hardly in any position to judge other people on their democracies.
Replies: >>17895684 >>17895724
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:00:24 AM No.17895683
Embrace Your Race
Embrace Your Race
md5: 10eedfb6fc44aa3b2af877fdd405d3df๐Ÿ”
>>17895560
What's the other solution, anon?
There really isn't one that's competent to fix the problem.
Maybe in a few centuries we can get back to free, liberal democracies once homogeneity and clear boundaries have been established with extreme violence. But that's what it's going to take.
It's going to take probably 5 generations of Man in the High Castle and Handmaid's Tale to get us back to normal.
I'm an Old Stock American. I actually prefer Democracy. I'm also a Southern Nationalist. I don't much care for the people LARPing as Krauts.
Anachronistic, historionic political positions are always doomed to fail because you can't recreate the conditions of that time period. You have to deal with the world as it is and White people as they are and can be, not how you wish they were.
But to me the revolutionary ethos of National Socialism and their struggle is incredibly instructive to our own time. There is no American expression that is going to gain ground because they've all been compromised beyond repair. I would know better than most.
I never thought I'd post memes like this unironically, but I'm convinced after decades this is the only option.
Replies: >>17895689 >>17895790
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:01:04 AM No.17895684
>>17895681
Stop the slander, Donald Trump is not a pedophile, he never has been a pedophile, and he never will be a pedophile.
Replies: >>17895730 >>17895734
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:01:29 AM No.17895686
>>17895680
They lost because they were out-produced and out-manned. I know logistics is too much for you Mexican shitlerites, but you don't need Jewish magic to run the numbers and figure out that fighting against a war of attrition against the whole world isn't going to end well.
Replies: >>17895692
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:02:25 AM No.17895688
>>17895680
>never on Germany territory
because they surrendered before the entente had a chance to steam roll them, with said generals stating a stream roll was going to happen, made worse by the collapse of every single one of their allies
Replies: >>17895692
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:03:09 AM No.17895689
>>17895683
Your despair is understandable, but your solution nostalgic authoritarianism is a dead end. History shows 'ethnic purity' projects always fail (see: Yugoslavia, Rwanda). Democracy's messy, but the alternative is just cycles of violence. Fixing today's problems requires new ideas, not reheated fascism.
Replies: >>17895733
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:04:00 AM No.17895690
>>17895676
>I am so sick of this bullshit from Euros,
Maybe because its fucking absurd to have some transatlantic faggot coming here to talk about European culture and idenitity, solely from what Hitler said.
You dont know two shits about European people so dont fucking lecture us. Hitler was autistic and pretty much wrong about everything.
Amerimutts see Hitler as some sort of champion of the white race becaue in muttamerica every white person belongs to the same idenitity, well in Europe it's not.
Hitler was a german nationalist, not a white supremacist. Get it through your thick skull.
Replies: >>17895735
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:04:23 AM No.17895692
>>17895686
>>17895688
I believe Germany could've won if they tried.
Replies: >>17895694 >>17895700
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:05:13 AM No.17895694
>>17895692
they did try, very hard, it just wasn't enough
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:05:44 AM No.17895696
Because the system won't destroy itself
Because the system won't destroy itself
md5: 851eb9b7e10bb447beb086789e9aace7๐Ÿ”
>>17895595
I'm old enough to remember what America used to be like, anon. It wasn't always in every single corner a miscegenated, rotting Hellscape. I remember when good jobs were out there and if you didn't have one it was because the problem was you. I remember when property ownership was the rule and expectation, not an exception or a pipe dream.
We're all either gonna prove Goycattle posters right and slide into extinction or do something about it.
No amount of Counter-Signaling is going to save you from ZOG and his vengeful army of Tyrones who have been programmed to hate White people as long as you have been taught to love Non-Whites.
Replies: >>17895701 >>17895702 >>17896267
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:06:13 AM No.17895697
>>17895629
>>17895680
thousands of jews fought and died for Germany in WW1 btw
>inb4 they don't matter
yes Nazi aplogists are subhuman. this is well known
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:06:45 AM No.17895698
>>17895625
Yeah you're right it'd be even worse, considering what Berlin was like before the NSDAP.
They literally stopped Miscegenated Globohomo from happening.
Replies: >>17895707 >>17896267
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:06:56 AM No.17895699
>>17895603
>What was the benefit of expending resources killing german jews?
jews seem like a silly and strange group today but you have to transport yourself back to the 1940s when there were millions of jews spread across europe
as we all know, they were outsiders for most of their history up until the jewish emancipation which was a deflection point in the identity of european jews in the sense that they now had one foot in their own world and another foot in another world, which led to many disjointed and downright destructive concepts being born into the world which we all already know about so i won't go over that again
certain thinkers like xueqin and spengler have identified ashkenazi jews as a certain kind of force in civilization, a negative force; i believe spengler called them a "disintegrating element" and that one of their traits is "gelddenken" which translated to something like "money-oriented thinking" which runs absolutely counter to the very blood (using his terminology)-relation type of "thinking" that the nazis had
also not to mention the influence which jews had on modernity, which the nazis were quite opposed to
any sort of group which has power and influence and also does the opposite thing that your side does is always going to be your #1 enemy so it makes absolute categorical sense to strike them first when you have the power to do so
as for why they killed ordinary "peasant" jews? again it's simple - they technically had the capacity to become the upper class wealthy influential jews since those people were also peasant/peasant-adjacent to begin with
they had to make absolutely sure and forgive me for using such a crass analogy but if you have a pest infestation, you don't half-ass it, do you? you get rid of them all
it was all to secure socio-cultural hegemony within their borders

i'm going to post probably once more and then go to sleep
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:07:06 AM No.17895700
Skรคrmbild 2024-05-29 010937
Skรคrmbild 2024-05-29 010937
md5: ed2a28e64a5cbd1a9485c8c20b13c1d7๐Ÿ”
>>17895692
Go on then. Tell us how Germany is going to win.
They were literally starving since 1916.
Replies: >>17895703
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:07:22 AM No.17895701
>>17895696
>non whites are literally out to get me
You're fucking insane, fag. I get up every morning at 6am to work for a living. I don't even know you exist.
Replies: >>17895737
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:07:34 AM No.17895702
>>17895696
> It wasn't always in every single corner a miscegenated, rotting Hellscape.
Maybe you should watch less interracial porn? America is a beautiful country if you life a normal life you know.
Replies: >>17895744
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:09:01 AM No.17895703
>>17895700
Just take armies from eastern front (russia is defeated) and move them into western one.

875621+727200=1602821 > 1499495

Mathematically, Germany is still winning this one.
Replies: >>17895710 >>17895714 >>17895718
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:09:39 AM No.17895704
One Struggle, One Victory
One Struggle, One Victory
md5: 7b49222392e0d160e34e06be4a0012c7๐Ÿ”
>>17895649
Better to die in a good cause than live in shame post-victory.
Vulgar materialists deserve the rope. There are more things in life than a fat belly and a soft couch.
Replies: >>17895706 >>17895711
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:10:19 AM No.17895705
>>17895505
>>17895511
Only good posts here. Rest of this thread is loser cope.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:10:38 AM No.17895706
>>17895704
> There are more things in life than a fat belly and a soft couch.
Such as? Dying for century old nazi propaganda?
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:10:51 AM No.17895707
>>17895698
Literally not even related to Hitler invading shit and genociding other states population but whatever faggot.
Everyone is in agreement that Hitler should have stopped after Czechia and simply ruled Germany.
His chimpout is the reason why nationalism, racial hygene and conservative value are shunned upon and gave the marxist left a free reign.
Europe was larglely based pre-Hitler and should simply have stayed the course. All this globalist bullshit would have been met with far more pushback from the general population if Hitler never was.
Replies: >>17895746
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:11:38 AM No.17895708
>>17895650
If you think any of these groups have been, "marginalized," in the last 50 years you need to go outside.
Ironically the only people getting marginalized from Federal policies in the US for that same length of time has been White people.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:11:41 AM No.17895709
Initiating force on humans is evil. Trading based on mutual consent is good.
Replies: >>17895725
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:11:53 AM No.17895710
>>17895703
Meaning the Russians recapture all that land you just gained, plus the Britih and French armies in Russia can now invade East Prussia.
Replies: >>17895713
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:11:56 AM No.17895711
Cs-Wh1nWIAAIEQw
Cs-Wh1nWIAAIEQw
md5: 65bea7659c2ae7fbb5a48758e966d03e๐Ÿ”
>>17895704
>Better to die in a good cause than live in shame post-victory
Don't worry, your women weren't ashamed.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:12:52 AM No.17895712
>>17895655
She was a subversive traitor and deserved what she got.
Women got the right to vote and decided they should be allowed to kill babies and screw over men with the help of the legal system.
Like I said earlier, it will take 5 generations of Handmaid's Tale to get things back to normal.
Replies: >>17895715 >>17895717
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:13:04 AM No.17895713
>>17895710
> Meaning the Russians recapture all that land you just gained
There is already peace of Brest and they are busy with civil war. Also, you can swiftly defeat France and then just defeat Russians again.
Replies: >>17895723
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:14:02 AM No.17895714
>>17895703
great now you just made the food situation worse, oh and by the way those troops were surrendering to rag tag eastern euro militias, I doubt they were going to do much against an actual army
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:14:04 AM No.17895715
>>17895712
Why are you fascists pretend to care about white race but hate white women?
Replies: >>17895749
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:14:07 AM No.17895716
>>17895656
Grab a rifle and stand opposed when the time comes I guess. That'd be a lot better than yelling at each other on a message board and a lot more interesting.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:14:29 AM No.17895717
>>17895712
>they werent oppressive!
>okay they were but they deserved it anyway!
I asked God to make my enemies ridiculous, and here you are. An entire circus.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:15:30 AM No.17895718
>>17895703
And what are you doing against the armies in the Balkan front and Italian front that are now about to swarm Germany from the south?

What are you doing about the 10 million Americans about to swarm into France?

What are you doing about the Ukranians and Poles and Lithuanians and Czechs seceding and landgrabbing as much as they can.

What are you doing about the revolution and mass-desertion on the home front, and people starving, children dying by their tens of thousands from starvation.

Are you going to capture Paris? Do you think the war even ends then?
Replies: >>17895727
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:16:56 AM No.17895721
>>17895679
>muh India famine
Yeah man that'd be a real nice change: leadership in an Anglophone country that prioritizes the native people and will do anything to make good things happen for them instead of the other way around.
I wonder what it's like to not feel absolute contempt for my national government.
Replies: >>17895741
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:18:19 AM No.17895723
>>17895713
Except the White Russians never signed any deal with Germany, the Reds did. And there are several allied armies in Russia that intervened when Russia exited the war specifically to keep pressure on Germanys eastern side, and help the Whites win the civil war.

You really think Germany left 700.000 troops in the east because they were dumb but you are smart.
And then you wonder why everyone thinks your people are retarded and dont subscribe to your world view. Huh.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:18:33 AM No.17895724
The Time Has Come DixieWave
The Time Has Come DixieWave
md5: c1ba6e8e5e4433cf1b62cf9243370263๐Ÿ”
>>17895681
Do I sound like someone who thinks our current Democracy is a favorable system?
I'm a Secessionist/Separatist if anything when it comes to America. The biggest issue is most Southerners aren't except in memes, if that even now. We don't have the capacity or virtue to sustain ourselves as independent actors.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:19:35 AM No.17895725
true-truth-nuke-1564178010
true-truth-nuke-1564178010
md5: 78ff8cdc06f0dc2b37d6845823e99396๐Ÿ”
>>17895709
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:20:56 AM No.17895727
>>17895718
I'll save strength for defense and starve Britain with usage of U-boats. Then I will get the war to end by any means necessary. I'll go from conquest to conquest and kill any civilian who threatens Germany. With German control over the seas, I will capture every piece of the British empire I want, and kill and imprison any of them I want.
Replies: >>17895732
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:21:25 AM No.17895728
1753814803941010
1753814803941010
md5: c5b269cf0dfd02dbd0a3e9f4ddc6df96๐Ÿ”
Nobody at the time took the threat seriously, they didn't believe non whites would ever have any significant population in Europe or America. Nazis were trying to prevent a problem that it was easy to deny could ever happen.

But it all played out like they warned it would, for the reasons they said it would. But turning Europe into a white ethnostate isn't all the Nazis wanted to do, they also wanted to ensure that culture remained conducive to the perpetuation of their people. That meant no gays, no jews, no whores, etc.

everyone thought Noah was crazy for building his silly boat until it wasn't funny anymore
Replies: >>17895731 >>17895750
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:23:22 AM No.17895730
>>17895684
This guy was perving on 14 year-old girls all the way back in the 90s, bro.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:23:30 AM No.17895731
>>17895728
> not my villagerino! D:
I don't care about shit backwater village.
Replies: >>17895740
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:24:26 AM No.17895732
1713036509719367
1713036509719367
md5: a87dbc5dc0910a044f8849bf1a3da723๐Ÿ”
>>17895727
>I'm just gonna shitpost because I admit Germany cant win
>But I am compelled to suck Hitlers dick so I must believe in the stab-in-the-back myth

It's amazing that youre completely confused over why nobody else thinks you're right.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:25:43 AM No.17895733
>>17895689
Nobody's got new ideas, buddy. None that are any good.
I think turning humanity into a battle royale would actually end up better than the continued rot we're experiencing right now, personally.
An existential war for my race's survival would fix everything in my life I consider a problem.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:25:50 AM No.17895734
1753684369997314
1753684369997314
md5: bb487a857743bf86fb4cf8b111556ac6๐Ÿ”
>>17895684
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:27:33 AM No.17895735
>>17895690
Let me know what, "most popular newborn names," are in your country. Because eventually it's going to be, "Mohammed."
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:28:16 AM No.17895736
Wojciech Kossak, Teutonic apostolate - painting
Wojciech Kossak, Teutonic apostolate - painting
md5: c656b0d4e73b3c50e1f5e3e856747093๐Ÿ”
>>17895638
it's annoying to me that people always forget or ignore that germany actively tried to settle jews in places outside of europe too but they were turned away wherever they tried
don't even get me started on the pathetic response that was the evian conference

>>17895679
>Probably because you're doing a shit job at presenting reasonable rational logical arguments that arent morally bankrupt and fundementally biased.
i thought that might be the response i'd get
i'm just going to cut to the chase now since i'm tired
this is objectively the most important thing you need to know about history - people getting killed is not bad in itself
the only thing that matters is what they were killed for, that is to say, the historical events which are being driven by some force for which there is no grand unified theory just yet although we do have some high concepts, all of which involve shared cultural bonds, a spiritual element, selection pressures, virtues and currency
the people who came up with these concepts are difficult to disprove and are smarter than most people in this thread put together, including both you and i so i implore you to actually read their works and understand what history actually means at every level of the word and drop that pop history garbage you probably read

>This is your problem, not ours.
i can only lead you so far, the rest of the way you have to go by yourself if you choose to
if not, then you will forever remain ignorant of this place which we inhabit

i'm going to sleep now, sorry if i made some of you upset but i hope you enjoy the rest of your night
Replies: >>17895742 >>17895797
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:28:45 AM No.17895737
>>17895701
On the internet you can be anything, Jamal.
Replies: >>17895743 >>17896267
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:30:33 AM No.17895740
1753320826665952
1753320826665952
md5: 9c7162cae77b482132bf0973291f55c4๐Ÿ”
>>17895731
the poisoned dagger of non white migrants has been plunged into the heart of every European country, and unless excised, the people will be destroyed and the countries will fall. It has already begun, the awakening of his people can not be stopped. They will seek justifications for what they must do, and they will find them in Christ, doing in his name all that is necessary to ensure their eternal life is not threatened.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:31:05 AM No.17895741
170px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-G0627-500-001,_Auszeichnung_des_Hitlerjungen_Willi_Hรผbner
>>17895721
Do you even look at the map?
The Germans have been completely pushed out of France by November.
They lost more ground in the last few couple of months of 1918 than they did in the entire war.
The allies were days away from entering Germany and begin to take their revenge. And you blame the German politicians for doing the right thing and protect the German people and cities from being ravaged, by exiting the war before this happens.
All because the military men who had coup'ed the government earlier decided to abandon their posts and leave the responsibility to the politicians.

Do you think Finland sued for peace in 1944 when their lines were broken because of jews stabbing them in the back?
Or do you think it was because they knew that if they continued the war, the Soviets would begin to ravage the Finnish country and the military was unable to protect its population?

Suing for peace when you are militarily defeated is normal.
Continue fighting even though defeat is inevitable, and consequently knowingly throwing your civilian population into the meatgrinder to the last building, isnt normal.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:31:16 AM No.17895742
>>17895736
Amerindians weren't American citizens. Jewish Germans were German citizens.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:32:24 AM No.17895743
>>17895737
You've never works a day in your life. Your elderly parents pay your phone bill so you can come here and blame your failures on black people.
Replies: >>17895757
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:32:59 AM No.17895744
Yankee Deportation Force
Yankee Deportation Force
md5: 702df776005c13a3c1302dee445bd048๐Ÿ”
>>17895702
Fuck you. You have no idea who I am.
I live in the South. I've watched beautiful communities and cities die thanks to Capitalists shuffling our people all around to make a buck. I've seen safe and prosperous cities get turned into shitholes as Global Zimbabwe has taken effect.
I despise what these people have done and it's only matched by the contempt they have displayed for my people, our heritage and our culture.
They have ruined everything and justified it while they did it.
Gas chambers are too good for them. They should be sawed in half alive.
Replies: >>17895983 >>17896267
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:34:29 AM No.17895746
>>17895707
I think you're a bit right but also wrong.
We were already moving towards Capitalist Global Oligarchy which was run by Jews anyway. Anyone who tried to stop the Gibs and cashflow was going to be demonized. Soviets only narrowly escape because they helped stop an even bigger threat to the system.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:35:07 AM No.17895747
>2010s fashwave edits
kek millennials are so fucking gay. Probably gayer than zoomers
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:35:34 AM No.17895749
>>17895715
We don't, "hate," White Women. We're just honest about female nature.
Replies: >>17895755
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:37:06 AM No.17895750
>>17895728
>everyone thought Noah was crazy for building his silly boat until it wasn't funny anymore
Very based Biblical analogy, have a (You).
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:39:37 AM No.17895755
>>17895749
Nah, you are self-hating anti-white doomer.
Replies: >>17895762
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:39:57 AM No.17895757
>>17895743
Uh huh, sure pal.
Now get back in the field.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:40:45 AM No.17895760
1753721854796907m
1753721854796907m
md5: f71ed3ac3d7c7a63d50d530ac091d526๐Ÿ”
>Uh huh, sure pal.
>Now get back in the field.
Replies: >>17895765
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:41:35 AM No.17895762
>>17895755
It's not, "Dooming," to be honest about the situation.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:42:36 AM No.17895765
>>17895760
>implying I've ever been a MAGAtard
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:48:35 AM No.17895778
>>17895638
I was talking about cold war era conflicts
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:53:39 AM No.17895786
>>17895533
>This type of murder and barbarism is natural and fine, but your type is bad!
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 11:57:19 AM No.17895790
>>17895683
You're 14.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 12:02:03 PM No.17895797
>>17895736
>Trust me bro: the post.
Wow very convincing anon. Also I'd be more inclined to listen to you if you didnt talk like such a faggot. You are on 4chan after all so drop the whole manner act. It just makes you look like a fucking worm, especially here.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 12:06:29 PM No.17895806
1751045686556323
1751045686556323
md5: d1287bea164372d4a69d771f82c99255๐Ÿ”
>>17895495 (OP)
>enter thread
>CTRL+F:
>"niggers"
>"tranny"
>"White"
>"jew"
Clockwork.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 12:48:08 PM No.17895883
>>17895639
>it was real in my head
then pull it out of /pol/, sanchez
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 12:52:18 PM No.17895888
>>17895522
>Also I want to an ideologically driven legislature.
no hablo?
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 2:02:33 PM No.17895983
1754122507423230
1754122507423230
md5: 66a05045952e0c2c5c53e9154520cf0e๐Ÿ”
>>17895744
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 2:03:49 PM No.17895984
>>17895495 (OP)
>i genuinely do not know how to come up with a single argument against nazi germany anymore
Not being German is a good one.
If German ultranationalists had to choose between being sloghtly inconvenienced or screwing over non-Germans, which do you think they'd choose?
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 4:11:16 PM No.17896151
>>17895501
>start with the 6 gorillion
271k *TOPS*
Replies: >>17896172
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 4:24:13 PM No.17896167
Mass illegal migration is an invasion, if an invasion such as this brings a state to its knees I can see point where there's a counter revolution of fascists. Implying we're not all going to have drone shock collars and monitoring devices
Replies: >>17896196
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 4:27:07 PM No.17896172
>>17896151
>race war ends up with 20 million dead germans and 200k dead jews
why are germans so weak?
Replies: >>17896174
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 4:27:53 PM No.17896174
>>17896172
Why are Jews so desperate to make the war about them
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 4:43:54 PM No.17896196
>>17896167
It's not invasion. They are invited by our elites because modern men is unfit and demands too much. The same reason why white people go to philippines to marry. Because they hate their women for demanding too much from them. It is what it is.
Replies: >>17896238
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 5:03:21 PM No.17896238
>>17896196
right the west is flooding itself with browns because browns are such good civilization builders
Replies: >>17896255 >>17896263
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 5:12:47 PM No.17896253
>>17895530
My best friend at school was kidnapped and raped multiple times by pakis when she was 12. If you tried saying this to my face I'd at the very least *try* to kill you.
Replies: >>17896259 >>17896267
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 5:14:26 PM No.17896255
>>17896238
They literally built most ancient civilizations... Egypt, Sumer, India. We need their expierence.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 5:15:27 PM No.17896259
>>17896253
> I'd at the very least *try* to kill you
You deserve everything you got for be
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 5:18:44 PM No.17896263
>>17896238
Yes that's exactly what he said word for word.
Anonymous
8/4/2025, 5:21:10 PM No.17896267
>>17896253
I don't feel bad after these posts btw

>>17895680
>>17895698
>>17895696
>>17895737
>>17895744