Thread 17897352

Why is Trojan armor found far north of Greece? This basically confirms that Troy was somewhere else.

>Trojan armor
the article state its Trojan Era, not Trojan armor

>trojan era
Reading comprehension is not in home...

>>17897352 (OP)
Couldn't someone from that area buy it from a greek merchant?

>>17897358
Oh. So why is it so close to the city known to the Romans as "Greek City"?

You guys have to admit that the armor looks like the movie Troy, even though they got flak because it doesn't look like the other Mycenaean armor sample that quite frankly looks ridiculous

Nesite records say Troy was in Turkey

>>17897581
Lmao

>>17897362
sauce? I looked it up and Graz as a modern settlement was founded in the middle ages and its name is of Slavic origin

>>17897352 (OP)
Would this armour have been Celtic or Slavic in manufacture?

>>17897587
>as a modern settlement
There's your problem retard.

>>17897618
yeah the modern settlement only has continuity going back to the middle ages you fucking idiot, the Romans didn't give it a name because it didn't exist in antiquity

>>17897625
>modern settlement
So why are you looking at modern strata and not pre-classical? You're not one but two eras removed.

>>17897633
because you said the Romans called it Greek City which is incorrect

>>17897638
It is correct.

>>17897592
Greek (proto German).

>>17897362
>>17897640
Did you not know that Latin was the language of administration in the Middle Ages? Just because the city had a Latin name in addition to the native one doesn't mean it was around in Roman times. The city of Graz is medieval. Romans never called it "Graecium", medieval Germans and Slavs did, and it has nothing to do with Greece.

>>17898138
he is just a retarded schizo we wuzzer. dont waste your time

>>17897640
Do you have a source to back that up?

>>17898138
Alright, so let's assume you're right and the Romans never made that association, then why did the Germans name their city that? The implication is that the Germans thought of themselves as ancient Achaeans. Furthermore, you're adding the addendum that Germans and Slavs still used Latin in whichever medieval period you're speculating, presumably the very late. Your response?

Probably moved there by trade. They have found roman items all the way in Finland too but that doesn't mean Rome had any influence there

>>17898638
That doesn't explain why central Europeans who still learn Latin and Greek insist that they were ancient Achaeans. If anything, the Trojan armor we have come to imagine is only found in northern Europe. A major critique of the Iliad is that the arms types used by the soldiers are not found in Minoan Greece and only in the very late Mycenean period- but they're already found in northern Europe.

Notice also that the Amazons were conceived as eastern Europeans. The wife of Hector the Trojan is Andromache ("Man - battler"), who is an Amazonian and therefore presumably a proto-Pole, a kind of early Sarmatian woman. Remember also that Sarmatian women were required to kill men in order to marry, so recalls Tacitus.

Recall also that the largest battlefields in Europe prior to the BAC's conclusion are all in northern and eastern Europe. Many sites are utterly disintegrated having been drowned in extreme temperatures.

>>17898569
I don't know anon, I guess its completely impossible for people to name places after things they have little to no connection to.

>>17898660
the franks have always been usurperous we wuzzers

>>17897352 (OP)
You need reading lessons o algo.

>>17898670
>people to name places after things they have little to no connection to.
This proves my point though: western civilization brought 32 places named Troy to America BECAUSE it's western civilizational. Pre-Americans didn't give it those names. If there was no relationship, these places wouldn't exist.
>>17898675
Franks are a different topic. I would love to talk about them, but the only thing we can point out here is that both Troyes and Paris are named after the Trojan war but if anyone looks up theories for etymology they will see references to random tribes which no one argued before the post-modern period.

In other words- people are going back and changing where Troyes and Paris got their names from. Now you might say: "those are medieval too", except they're not. The British and the French ancestors really thought they came from Troy and that brings us neatly along to the oldest actual transmission of the group that came from Troy: The Veneti.

>>17898693
We're way past that and well into making the point. Don't you ever wonder where the Troy movie got it's idea of the armor? It's because the weapons and armor of northern Europe match the Iliad. But let's move back to the Veneti for now- the group that came out of eastern Europe and brought Trojan customs west. Troy was a canton of the land called Veneti, that's the nations name. That place has universally been traced to eastern Europe, the area that would become Gothic and Slavic later.

>>17897368
The only other major Mycenaen armor is the one from Dendra and that would be too old to fit into the time frame of any proposed historical Trojan War.

>>17898701
No-one is saying other Europeans hadn't heard about the stories of antiquity, just that they have no actual connection beyond that.

What are you even asserting here?

>>17898708
What the hell lol, you are just trying so hard to connect this to what you believe you are right that it's just ridiculous. How about Troy were actually the tartessians?

>>17898709
Hold on, I'm building up my ancient armor folder.
>>17898734
>just that they have no actual connection beyond that
So why did they all believe it? You have the British saying it as late as The History of the Kings of Britain in the 11th century, you have Livius saying it a millennium earlier in Rome, you have the Gauls/French claiming it the entire time in between from before the settling of the Franks to the crusades when they remind the Greeks that they're Trojans getting their revenge. It doesn't seem strange that the Veneti, the group Livius connects to the Trojans, are said to have moved into Britain and into France also- like those people claimed?

>>17897362
The author is a retard. Graz comes from slav word for a fortified settlement. It's related to Czech "hradec". Graz in Czech is Štýrský Hradec (Styrian fort) and Hradec Králové in German is Konig Graz (Kings fort in both languages)

>>17898737
>What the hell lol, you are just trying so hard to connect this
Livy EXPLICITLY does this. The British do this in their medieval histories, and the French go on crusades shouting to the Greeks that they're getting revenge for their Trojan ancestors. I guess I'll apologize because I just kind of assumed everyone here already knew about British medieval histories and French crusader sayings, but none of that is coming from me. The whole "we wuz Trojans" thing is old but remarkably consistent.

Meanwhile, Schliemann tried to prove that Turkey had Troy in it, but he was already BTFO by Strabo who discredited him 2200 years prior. Seriously read Strabo's book on Troy and there's no way you walk away thinking Troy was in Turkey. His whole book destroys the idea.

To be fair, I know this is a lot if you've never heard of any of this before. You're used to looking in the map section of your Greek book and securely and comfortably being reminded that Troy is in Turkey- except it just isn't true and none of the literature supports it. The classics don't support it, the medievalists don't support it. It isn't until the 20th century that the idea gains any ground. Just goes to show how far backward we've gone in historical studies despite rubbing ourselves off as the best ever.

>>17898756
a retarded schizo we wuzzer using faulty "sources"? i ll be damned

>>17898756
>It's related to Czech "hradec"
Czechs don't exist until the late medieval period. I'm prepared to expand this thread theme to completely deconstructing Slavic history if that's where you want to go. We can start with how the Premyslid dynasty is literally the Wettin dynasty but Czechs have gone back and relabeled the characters. We can talk about how all of the major Wettin figures from that period speak either Latin or German, live in a German and Latin speaking country, serve German commanders, and trace their families back to Germanic dynasties eight hundred years prior. We can do that, if you want.

>>17898759
>using faulty "sources
So Livy, Strabo, and every other source that is in agreement until Schliemann the conman comes along is faulty? Look, even if you're Turgish, that's retarded. Don't make me deconstruct Turkey too. I can strangle a Czech nationalist with one arm and a Turg in the other.

>>17898747
>So why did they all believe it?
because the Aeneid was one of the most popular stories in medieval europe

>>17898747
>Veneti

what a fucking nigger thought it would be a good idea to go into central europe during antiquity there was fucking NOTHING

>>17897642
TRVTH NVKE

>>17898660
this is supposedly belarus. mar bianco = white sea = baltic

>>17898761
woman becomes part of the man's family not the other way around

>>17899865
Central Europe was apparently significantly more populated than we thought years ago, as many settlements and massacres have been uncovered. Czechia was a part of the amber road. But I don't know which group would have been in this location at this time.

Trade networks had spanned the continent for thousands of years at this point.