Thread 17908229

Why did Europeans decided to worship a desert god whilst the nips objected to that concept?

They have higher IQ. Abrahamicism's popularity is inversely proportional to IQ.

>>17908229 (OP)

https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17898288/#17898288

https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/17853933/#17853933

>>17908244

THIS.

>>17908229 (OP)
It wasn’t the the people that objected to it, it was the Japan was unified by the shogunate and the shogun and ruling elites surrounding him became opposed to it and banned it. that decided to purge the population because the shogun was a schizo who thought that Spain wanted to invade and probably also because the one of the coomer shogun’s concubines was influenced by the missionaries and stopped giving to the shogun’s sexual advances.

>>17908229 (OP)
They weren't
It was just the Emperor getting paranoid after the Shimabara Revolt (which happened due to high taxation).

Christian iconography is very relevant in Japan to the point that more weddings are Christian-themed than Taoist.
It is only a matter of time till they had Christianity for real

>>17908299
They have Christian themed wedding because of Hollywood, don't lie to yourself. They aren't yearning for Jesus when they marry.

>>17908314
Christian iconography is DOMINANT everywhere you go because this is the fruit of Divine Love

>>17908323
Anime being popular everywhere is the fruit of Shinto Supremacy apparently.

>>17908299
>Shimabara Revolt
>Christianity introduced to Japan
>immediate sectarian violence
The Japanese are always so impressive in how they adopt foreign concepts and technologies, starting at zero, and accelerate them to their extreme ends.

>>17908342
Don't play dumb.
You know damn well how popular Christianity is in anime

First, they harvest the fruits
Then, the seeds shall take root

Always

>>17908346
It really was just a case of tyranny
Daimyo wanted a new castle and imposed the cost onto the people
One day, one fisherman was late to his tax.
The tax collector punished him by torturing his pregnant daughter.
Dad murdered his ass and KABOOM.
Biggest revolt in Japanese history happened

After the revolt, the Daimyo was tried and found guilty.
He got decapitated by the Emperor himself

>>17908229 (OP)
Christianity is like voodoo. It can be what you need it to be by playing around with life and death. That's why Japan realized they had to obliterate it to maintain order.

>>17908352
>khyle
let me guess, frieren fucked the plush or something

>>17908278
>that decided to purge the population because the shogun was a schizo who thought that Spain wanted to invade
Is he really a schizo when thats literally what spain did to everyone else? Also them moving in their foreign religion to try and take control of the country basically proves he was right.

>>17908323
This is basically no different from people like Oppenheimer quoting jeet religion because it has a foreign mystic appeal, that doesn't mean they actually all want to go and become jeets.

>>17908278
>the shogun was a schizo who thought that Spain wanted to invade
That's only fair, since the shogun was scheming with the English to conquer the Philippines

In Europe, most peoples converted from up to bottom. The ruling class or the monarch converted first, and they then converted their own people. Christianizing in Europe did not generally speaking endanger the old regime, the nobility stayed the same it had been in the pagan days. Very little of Europe was converted by foreign conquest, the Baltic crusades are pretty much the only instance of such - Northern crusades are a bit questionable, since crusading in Finland and Estonia was more about containing Novgorodian influence. Christianity had already spread to Northern Baltic coasts from the East before Swedes and German crusaders conquered them.
In Japan, the ruling class considered evangelizing to the peasants a threat to their authority. It was seen as foreign subversion that threatened the upper society from the bottom.

>>17908465
Huge difference between qouting a philosophy book and outright marrying in a style that is not of your faith

>>17908229 (OP)
>Japan
>they're clearly manchus

>>17908229 (OP)
>Depicting japs as russians/turks
Kek

>>17909359
Correct. Style. You almost got it. You were this close.
Christian styled wedding is stylish because Hollywood movies and people want to marry like in the movies.
I don't think you understand religious dynamics there at all if you think "marrying in a style that is not of your faith" is some sort of conversion movement. What is "their faith" in the first place? Can you say it? Do you know what else they do that are squarely outside the scope of "their faith"?

>>17908244
>Obliterates Japanese centre of Christianity

>>17909420
It's called "soft power", dumbass
Softpower is the fruit of culture, tradition, and history, and faith

Being fascinated with the soft-power of a group doesn't make you one of them.
But it does make you very open to their influence and it is just a matter of time before you choose to see the truth and end up either disillusioned or even more fascinated and aim to learn more

Vatican made headways over to Osaka
There was no resistance
And therefore it is only a matter of time till Japan finally hears the Lord's word for real

>>17908229 (OP)
Japan already had an organized, dominant religion. Shinto was turned into an organized religion in response to Buddhism during the Asuka period. Most of Europe did not have an organized religion.

>>17909461
That isn't Hakodate

>>17909745
"DO YOU WANT TOTAL WAR?"
~ Dr. Joseph Goebbels.

>>17910221
If you convert Japan you're fucked. The wrath of the gods will be hot and quick, and it will go straight for Vatican City.

>>17908229 (OP)
Christianity was insanely lucky in that it stumbled on a society going through full dysgenic meltdown.

>>17908342
TRVTH NVKV

>>17908352
Christianity in anime is typically gnostic anyways.

>>17908229 (OP)
I despise Japanese but this is one of the good things they did, same should have been done in China and Korea earlier

>>17910363

I'll pray for you to turn to the light of Christ.

>>17910349
Otherway around.
They were gnostics first and are just trying to incorporate Christian iconography

>>17909745
>>17908352
i much preferred the triumphant gloating that they'd be great-replaced by filipinxes to whatever this is 2bh

>>17910959
Flips aren't "migrants", though

Their culture is to work overseas and then return home by Christmas. No one wanted to stay for a green card.
I know this because my friend is a Flip.
Remittances are a big part of their economy but no one ever truly "migrates". They have fairly large and tight-knit families that they do not want to abandon, even when their country is a piece of shit

>>17910963
>In 2013, the Commission on Filipinos Overseas (CFO) estimated that approximately 10.2 million people of Filipino descent lived or worked abroad.[12] This number constitutes about 11 percent of the total population of the Philippines
Filipinxistan is a shithole, anon. I mean, yeah, they can cope however they want about how they're "temporarily displaced pagpagistanis" but they're there to stay for the long term

>>17909745
By this line of thought it's a matter of time until people line up to follow Shinto.

>>17910970
I know, dude
And the reason as to how government is aware of how many are working overseas is the fact that they never emigrate. They always return home.

I'm not saying that they are the best. But there is a reason why they are almost 1/3 of the entire shipping industry, but you never hear a single complaint.
It's been like that for like 20 years, but they still have no stereotype worth memeing about.

>>17910984
Is pagpag really the food of the gods, flipbro?

>>17910989
That was just restaurant leftovers that they recook.
It's not ideal to eat, but it is not like the stuff in China and India.

>>17910972
Shintos do not even follow Shinto.
Every district has its own independent rituals.

>>17910998
True but irrelevant.
Also, just like Christianity then.

>>17911005
*Protestants

Ortho and Catho only disagree on the leadership structure, but it's still the same Church

>>17908229 (OP)
The English and Dutch convinced the Shogunate that the missionaries were part of a plan to invade and colonise Japan, based on what had happened to the Philippines and Americas. This wasn't wholly fabricated as the Spanish were planning to invade China and use Christianity as a tool to create a subservient population there. So there was some kind of basis for thinking some of the missionaries had less then pure goals.

Aside from that, the Buddhist religious establishment (Shinto then not being terrible separated from Buddhism) saw the spread of Christianity as a threat and wrote tracts denouncing Christianity and arguing with its ideals and metaphysical concepts, this was a lot more pushback than European pagans could give. There's also an argument to be made that the Christian niche was already filled by Pure Land Buddhism, with that there was already a religion promising a better life without suffering after this one (even if as a broader path towards Buddhahood) and the way to be received into that Pure Land was essentially just keeping some basic precepts and chanting the Nembutsu.. far simpler than the Christian method of salvation which involves confession and baptism and so on. Popular religion in general was also already established in Japan with both Pure Land and Nichiren schools tending to appeal most to the broader population rather than elites, thus Christianity also had little room to grow roots as it did in Europe.

TL;DR secular powers moved to suppress it while, unlike European paganism, Japan had a religious establishment that already appealed to the lower classes and already promised a relatively simple to attain path out of suffering. Christianitys roots never went deep so a round of persecutions stopped any new conversions.

>>17911039
>Spanish were planning to invade China and use Christianity as a tool to create a subservient population there
First off, This is false.
They were planning to invade China *in the name of Christianity

It was universally panned by the Jesuits, who already have a thriving community of Christians there.. They called out Spain's plan as "Conquest masquerading as Faith"

Also, it was cancelled after the Spanish Armada was decimated by a storm

Secondly, Shimabara region was already predominantly Christian because they received more favorable trade if they converted.

And thirdly,
>Jap faith
>appealed to the lower classes
LMAO
It's overwhelmingly Emperor worship like every pagan society ever.
They banned Christianity precisely because they know that they cannot beat it.
Christianity welcomes each and every critic who wants to challenge its beliefs. Not once did it ever buckled. And this is also why it shall someday convert the entire world, as it always does

>>17911055
>as it always does
Bold claim when it hadn't been able to do that once in the first place, let alone always. There's as much precedence for that happening as Islam converting the entire world.

>>17911055
they failed, japan is christcuck free and most christcucks expunged in purges the last of being fat man, and you are a seething brown shitskin hopping on kiketianity in an attempt to claim the achievements originating from much greater races than yours who professed christianity(only in name). sad!

>>17908278
To be fair, the Spanish wanted to take over all of China they were absolutely a global threat

>>17911055
To the minds of a Japanese official in the 16th century there wouldn't have been a difference.
>Secondly, Shimabara region was already predominantly Christian because they received more favorable trade if they converted.
You're just kind of giving more reasons why Japanese officials would have been suspicious.
>It's overwhelmingly Emperor worship like every pagan society ever.
That's.. just absolutely not true historically. Yes, the Emperor was considered in a sense divine.. but that wasn't how most Japanese people at that point in time practiced religion. As explained, at this point in time both Nichiren Buddhism and Pure Land Buddhism were popular among the lower classes. The former revered mainly Shakyamuni Buddha (that is, the historical Buddha) and practiced mainly chanting and meditating on the name of the Lotus Sutra, in the belief it contained all knowledge contained within the Sutra and that through doing so a person could become enlightened within their lifetime and so be free from suffering. The latter revered mainly Amitabha Buddha though also other figures such as Kannon Boddhisatva who are believed to dwell in Amitabha Buddha's Pure Land, a Pure Land being essentially this purified realm belonging to a Buddha (there are many, many Buddhas other than the Buddha most people refer to when they say Buddha). These Pure Land practitioners mainly practiced recitation of Amitabha Buddha's name (Namu Amida Butsu), as an old Buddhist Sutra explained that Amitabha Buddha had made a vow that anyone who did this would be taken to the Pure Land when they died, to learn from the Amitabha Buddha in a blissful and beautiful land how to become a Boddhisatva (essentially an enlightened being who stays around without entering Nirvana to help other sentient beings escape Samsara, or the cycle of suffering and rebirth).

(1/2)

>>17911055
See, Shinto and Buddhism were only fully separated after the Meiji Restoration in the 1800s. At this point in time Shinto gods and godesses were often interpreted as manifestations of various Buddhas and Boddhisatvas who took various forms in order to teach the people of Japan how to escape suffering. But even those who weren't interpreted this way fitted neatly within Buddhism, as Buddhism has a class of celestial beings known as Devas who were essentially gods (its worth noting here that in Buddhist theology these are still beings trapped within the cycle of birth and rebirth, gods in Buddhism doesn't mean an immortal being.. indeed the idea of a monotheistic god is referenced in a few sutras most notably in one where Brahma, an Indian conception of a monotheistic god, is taught to simply be a long lived and powerful being that sentient beings can be reborn as and who deludes himself into believing he is the origin of all and the god of all and etc). Thus, Japanese would worship at shrines, but also practice Buddhist practices.. and the native religious aspect wasn't going around praying to the emperor but usually praying to local Kami of some kind, as Japanese native beliefs (what we usually call Shinto) interprets all things as containing some kind of spirit.

So, as a result for most common people their religious practice was chanting the Nembutsu or the name of the Lotus Sutra, while participating in communal worship at Shrines dedicated usually to local Kami. State Shinto with its emphasis on divinity of the emperor above most else came hundreds of years later, and even then there a dozen caveats about the divinity of the emperor you can make.

(2/2)

>>17908229 (OP)
The route of each people toward God is necessarily different.

That said, Europeans took centuries to convert to Christianity. Initial conversions occurred in the 1st century with communities drawn from Greeks and Jews living abroad in the Roman Empire. But it wasn't until Constantine in 312 AD with the Battle of the Milvian Bridge and the subsequent edict of toleration in 313 AD that a Christian could be a Christian openly in the Roman Empire without fear of persecution.

Christianity first arrived in Japan with St. Francis Xavier in 1549 AD. But universal persecution of Japanese Christians did not happen until 1614 AD. Persecution of Japanese Christians continued until 1873 AD, 324 years later. It was at that time that Takashi Hara was baptized. He would go on to become the first Catholic prime minister of Japan in 1918 AD.

I have to defend Christianity because it's a Sunday.

Nigga the West is predominantly Christian yet it's progressive.

Meanwhile Shinto Japan still does human sacrifices.

>>17911313
but you get to sacrifice a kike in a chicken costume but it doesn't count because...

Wasn't Buddhism also sometimes persecuted as a "foreign" religion?

>>17908229 (OP)
no charlemagne killing everybody that resisted

>>17911351
initially, then it settled as a major religion and also sort of began to form native Japanese schools of Buddhism. It also syncretised with Shintoism. Certain Buddhist sects would end up being suppressed though by Oda Nobunaga and the shogunate following his conquests, this was due to how some Buddhist sects had formed rival authorities to civil governments and had armies etc. rather than due to Buddhism being foreign though. A few centuries later during the Meiji Restoration Buddhism would be forcibly separated from Shintoism and for a time suppressed, later during WWII some sects of Buddhism would be promoted due to their loyalty to the state or use in propaganda, or for other purposes.

>>17908242
>completely ignores Christianity
>adopts Protestant work ethic anyways
Yeah, smart people eh?

>>17911336
Christ is the Sacrifice he is God.
We are content with just having Christ present in the Bread and Wine as our sacrifice.

Meanwhile in Shinto Japan their Hitobashira practice requires a real human sacrifice.

>>17911429
>Hitobashira practice
A practice from literally 5-6 centuries ago, that possibly was only common 10 centuries ago, if not longer.

You do know that the Israelites Jesus is a successor to sacrificed humans, right?

>>17911433
Lies Hitobashira has been practiced as late as WW2.

>There have been stories of hitobashira surviving well into the 20th century, but many of those accounts remain unconfirmed.
>but many of those accounts remain unconfirmed
mfw west niggers invent stories of human sacrifice to discredit country theyre at war with and 100 years later retard westnigger zoomers believe it

>>17911463
>Oh no this makes Japan look bad!
>We should do what we always do, blame foreigners!
"It was really Zainichis who did it!"

Talk about accountability.

They had a weird isolationist policy.

>>17911076
Islam lived through Apostasy Law and it is dying now because of the Internet

>>17908229 (OP)
Because English and Dutch merchants convinced the highest authorities in Japan that the Spanish and Portuguese Catholics were going to conspire against them and overthrow them.

>>17908229 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClmWZX28ARg

They got word of the imperial ambitions of Europeans from the other Europeans who were competing with Europeans, as a means to secure their own interest in Japan and limit the competitor's access to Japan. That worked. Even when Japan "locked down", they got access to Japan via special island access.

>>17911084
Rome failed
Soviet failed
Japan is out of the question

Because compared to Buddhist and Chinese philosophy, the off branch Semitic religion sounded ridiculous and absurd. The only reason people have pretended to accept the presence of Christianity in the country is to have an an access to the knowledge of Greek philosophy, mathematics and scienc that priests possess. Nobody cares about the rest of shit shows.


The only advantage of Christianity is through it you can see the lost civilization of Ancient Greece.

>>17908342
>>17910348
Why are anime characters almost always white? Kinda weird

>>17912137
The Spanish bragged about their empire and their Franciscans got crucified
The Portuguese were only expelled in the aftermath of the Shimabara Rebellion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Felipe_incident_(1596)

>>17911088
>>17911091
The reason for Christianity's popularity towards the lower class is not because of its promises of heaven even to the peasants

It's popular because it is the FIRST healthcare and charity organization in the entire world. Christianity advocates for everyone to act like Jesus, who was a doctor who never charged one cent.
This is bound to always be popular with the lower classes, especially in times of distress.

Rome itself had writings about how when Egypt was struck by a plague, Christians immediately flocked to provide aid. It was said that "The Christians died so the Egyptians may live"

Christians are so good at PR that, in an attempt to revive paganism, Emperor Julian accused Christians of having sympathy only for show

No other religion does that, and this is why Christianity shall always dominate. Sooner or later

>>17912488
>The reason for Christianity's popularity towards the lower class is not because of its promises of heaven even to the peasants
That is a large portion of its attractiveness in the past. Among its biggest proponents at the very start were slaves, who were explicitly told to obey their masters even as Christians. Thus you cannot explain the attractiveness purely by suggesting material gains.
>It's popular because it is the FIRST healthcare and charity organization in the entire world.
That's not really true, this kind of thing is somewhat overstated. While its true that Christians did feed the poor, temples of Roman and Greek gods would also do this - after all things like the fat would be burned away as an offering, but the meat itself would often be distributed to be eaten.

In any case, none of this explains why Christianity didn't take root in Japan. Yes, there were persecutions - but we know Christians survived those but without a growth in their numbers. If there was an inherent universal attractiveness to Christianity then Christianity should have thrived in Japan as it did under Roman persecutions, that it didn't suggests some part of its niche was already taken up.
>No other religion does that, and this is why Christianity shall always dominate. Sooner or later
It's current year. Most religions run charities, and an awful lot of Christian ones are shady. Catholicism has an outsized impact due to the sheer scale of the organisation, but most religious organisations do charity work of some kind.

>>17912533
Christianity tells you to obey your master as if he is Christ. But it also tells masters to act like Christ, who never had slaves

No, nothing is overstated
Christianity was, and still is, the BIGGEST Healthcare and Charity organization in the entire world. In the USA alone, As much as 20% of Hospitals, 40% of schools, and 95% of feeding centers are funded by Churches.

Bear in mind that 70% of Christian funds go straight to impoverished nations

>In any case, none of this explains why Christianity didn't take root in Japan
Not yet
It always does, sooner or later


Also,
>Most religions run charities
LMAO
Jews, Hindus, and Muslims have charity FOR THEMSELVES ONLY

>>17912549
Okay, but it still promised the slaves something beyond just "your master might beat you slightly less", that or your main argument for the religion boils down to "it'll give you free stuff"..
>It always does, sooner or later
It's been actively declining, at least with surveys from what can be seen Christianity has decreased from 2% to 1%-1.5%.

>>17912533
P.S
Scale argument does not work

Japan is 99% Tao, Shinto, and Buddist
How many of their charity were run by their religions?

Almost none
Their biggest ones are secular, farmer organizations, and nature concerns

>>17912574
Christianity ALWAYS decrease in times of prosperity
It's been the exact same pattern ever since the Book of Judges

God loathes the worship of flesh and gold. This never sit well with the generation of decadence

>>17912580
Japan seized all the Buddhist temples and destroyed ~80% of them during the Meiji restoration and during the WW2 because the Shinto did not want competition to the ideology. Buddhism was persecuted heavily and almost didnt survive.

>>17912580
again, if your fundamental argument isn't based on the spiritual benefits or advantages of the religion but how it can give people money then outside of Africa and India the religion will decline and possibly die. This is also the inbuilt weakness to Christianity. When the average person relies on charity and is in bondage it can sound appealing, but outside of that it is unappealing as a religion though its ethics permeate society... people lose faith in all supernatural and are left spiritually bereft.

>>17908229 (OP)
they were converting pretty readily and quickly it just became a political thing w/ dutch protestants turning the emporer against the catholic spanish evangelists.
It's actually funny in a sad way.
The dutch protestant traders were close with the empire and wanted a monopoly on japan, they saw the Catholic Spaniards very effectively converting a ton of people so the dutch convinced the emporer that they were actually trying to subvert japan, so the emperor came down hard on the spanish catholics AND the dutch who started the rumors and basically kept them as prisoners with the emperor and drastically limited their influence within the country. Of course the rebellion was also a factor but the role of the dutch was funny.

since then im not sure I think the US forced them open and they just haven't had any serious evangelical efforts or just viewed themselves as trying to preserve their cultural heritage against the west. im not as aware of that 1850+ period before ww2. I think the US forcing them open made their national identity much more sensitive and they never were really able to have good relations with the west.
post ww2 they are a subjugated people and need to re-millitarize and the Church itself is pretty dysfunctional and kind of needs to re-millitarize in it's own way as well.

>>17912594
I think when/if japan starts functioning a little better and the west as well (might happen this century hopefully we can see it) it'll catch on and spread quite a bit there.
As other anons have said it already is lingering around in the culture (classical music, imagery everywhere, etc.) and the fact they do have some excellent catholic literary authors like Shusaku Endo already dealing with the relation of their culture and Christianity idk it seems like it happen once things start sort of getting stronger again.

Even in popular works like Osamu Dazai's setting sun they seem to be very aware of some of the issues involved and would respond well to the clarity of the gospel in response. Currently most of the missionaries there are kind of obscuring the differences rather then showing them and trying to integrate it w/ gay eastern bullshit.

>>17911055
>Christianity welcomes each and every critic who wants to challenge its beliefs.
Hahahaha yeah they don't burn them at the stake. Giordano Bruno never existed.
>durr but Christianity is toothless now so it always has been
This is /his/ not your fantasy where the past never happened.

>>17912593
Christian Charity is not "gibs."
If you want to enter a Chruch-funded homeless shelter, you have to be sober, and you are not allowed to carry drugs and other substances.

Christian charity actually aims to solve the problem
And this is why the government is cracking down on Church-funded shelters. If the problem was solved, then they will receive no more funding to solve the problem

>>17912605
Heretics are killed only after years worth of public debates that proves them wrong in front of a massive audience and constantly being told to stop

It is not some bloodthirsty dogma. Each one was given reasons to stop and time to stop teaching their wrong lessons

>>17912640
>We welcome questioning and criticism! :)
>We also used to kill people who question and critique :(
Duplicitous and two-faced. Just admit that Christianity never would have come to dominate the West if it wasn't forbidden in past times to hold "heretical" views. People mock Islam for spreading by the sword but you people did the exact same thing.
>Oh but we held a lengthy show trial to try and force them to agree with our views
Ok, so when North Korea does this it's cool right?

>>17912769
They aren't questioning or critiquing
They are giving false teachings

It is people like you who are the reason why we have to endure Fake News

>>17912865
Are you gonna burn me at the stake for questioning your narrative?

>>17913194

Christians never burned anyone for questioning any narrative. However.....

>Muslims

>Buddhists

>Tengrists

>Hindus

>Shintos

>Taoists

>etc.

all did.

>>17912549
>Christianity will take over Japan
You guys can't even hold onto white countries, churches are dying, they're banning church bells, and building mosques all over Europe (with only a few exceptions like Poland and Hungary).

I don't know why you have this idea that Christianity will triumph everywhere with everyone. Even in the Christian worldview, there are people and indeed entire societies that will reject Christ and end up in hell. Unless you are a Universalist?

>>17913194
Bitch
Most large Churches have a bible chained at the altar precisely because they want people to ask questions and test the Truth for themselves

>>17913208

We are literally backed by God himself.

>>17913212

I think a large nation like the US could accomplish it by invading Japan and refusing to surrender until the state religion becomes Christianity.

>>17913199
Why are you on /his/? Just to troll? You deny well documented history, the Inquisition KILLED people for """heresy""" which is the same thing as them questioning the narrative of the Church.

Protestants did it too with "witches". Imagine being so superstitious you end up engaging in human sacrifice.

>>17913213

The Teutonic Knights did it....it worked for them.

>>17913208
Nigger. White countries were too prosperous for too long and suffered exactly as prophecized 400 years ago.

Prosperity is ending and you are all being reminded of who is in charge

>>17913217
Heresy is spreading Fake News

>>17913212
>You shall have no other gods besides me
So other gods exist, and YHWH is aware of them. At least we agree upon the idea that gods can die.

>>17913199
Joan of Arc

>>17913221
Trust the plan. Two more weeks. Q- I mean Jesus will prevail.

>>17913263
He literally exists outside of time and he cannot lie. Everything he says is bound in the past, present, and future

>>17913260
Idiot

>>17913210
The Catholic Church discouraged lay people reading the Bible until Gutenberg made it impractical. I have never seen a Bible on a chain in any church I've been to, what denomination is this?

Sure, your average modern day pastor or priest will allow you to question things, but do it too much and you may be asked to leave. This openness is new and was not the case even in the recent past when we had nuns hitting children who were too inquisitive in Catholic schools.

>>17913265
Why did your god create evil if he's so powerful?

>>17913276

God and Satan are 2 eternal (as in they have existed for eternity), omnipotent, omniscient, independent polar opposite figures. God is the good (omnibenevolent), and Satan is the evil (omnimalevolent).

You do know that...right?

>>17913276
God is Love.
God created beings who can share his Love
Love entails the Freedom to reject it
Evil is the rejection of Love

God never "created" evil. He created the choice to be with him or to reject him.

It is not love if it is forced

>>17913272
That is completely false
Bibles were chained at the pulpit, sometimes even outside, so that people can just read it without running the risk of it being stolen

The Church was so obsessed with producing as many bibles as they could, that it was not uncommon for them to end up hirring scribes who are not really literate. Historians have recovered bibles where the inscriptions are in psuedo-Latin or pseudo-Greek precisely because the scribe was just copying the texts without knowing what it truly means

Also, the Church funding is a major contributor to the Printing Press because they wanted to distribute as many bibles as they could.

You are, and have always been, 100% allowed to question it. They wholeheartedly encourage it

>>17908229 (OP)
Japan is smart

>>17908229 (OP)
japan wasn't resistant to christianity, the whole reason the shogun outlawed it is because the religion was spreading so fast and threatened to undermine his authority. had japan not unified when it did, it almost certainly would've become a catholic country

>>17913334
I think the context which is lacking in your post is Literacy rate. Isn't it possible to gatekeep Literacy, so the plebs can flip through the pages of the bible but not actually read it,while scribes and monks gatekeep the pulpit by gatekeeping who has Access to Education

>>17913388
Sure but that's not the Church's fault
In fact, the Church also funds schools precisely so they can have more scribes that can make more Bibles

shinto is not a religion.

>the franciscans and the jesuits were pretty thorough on this.

>dominicucks wanted to make a fuzz about it with the Pope.

>Pope acquiesced. Banned converts from engaging in shinto.

>this pissed off the powers that be in japan.

/thread

>>17913283
That's not Christianity you are espousing...it's Zoroastrian dualism using Christian language. You do know that right?

>>17913334
>You can ask questions
>But if you deviate too strongly we kill you by burning at the stake
Uh? Which is it?

You are unfamiliar with Giordano Bruno I guess, who now has a statue in the very square in Rome where he was burnt by the Church and their Inquisition.

They even bound his tongue so he couldn't say any more heresy while he was being executed FOR QUESTIONING. For his theories that Earth was not the centre of the universe, that stars were other suns with their own planets (exoplanets).

The idea that you have always been freely able to question the Church is a modern invention that has no basis in history. Bruno is but one example, Arians and Cathars and dozens of other groups stamped out by the worldly power of the Pope show this in further detail.

You may question the toothless Church now, the most they can do is excommunication. But not so when they weilded temporal power too. You think Muslims are barbaric for calling for the death of apostates, but Christians were doing this constantly until very recently. To deny this is to deny reality, might as well embrace it and claim it is good to kill those who disagree with your theology.

>>17913292
He could have created us in paradise instantly, or not? Is he not omnipotent?

Why go to through this "vale of tears" at all? Just to test people when God allegedly knows the outcome already? It's like playing each game of a sports videogame season when simulating would get the exact result and you could save the trouble. Skip to the end. You might enjoy playing the game, but life is not enjoyable for many, if not most.

>>17908229 (OP)
Funnily enough, shinto is more like what christianity is supposed to be than what christianity has become in the modern age.

First they met more fanatical Christians bent on conversion/subversion. After that they learned even more through the mellower Mercantile Christians, interested only in trade. They correctly recognized the threat to existing power structures, and took steps to mitigate it.

>>17911440
First you claimed they "still" do it, now you say this? Which is still false.

>>17914538
He was not killed for his studies in science

He was killed for denying the Trinity, divinity of Christ, the immaculate conception, and transubstantiation.

>>17914683
Oh ok, that totally makes it ok to you? Someone has a different theology, murder them?

C'mon, I bet you mock Muslims for doing the same thing your ancestors did not too long ago.

>>17914683
>He was not killed for questioning he was killed for being unsatisfied with the answers.
Any more pilpul and you'd be a Jew.

>>17914785
>>17914809
It's not a different theology
It's literally undermining the core dogmas which were the result of thousand debaes and studies

People like you are the reason we have to endure Prosperity cults, Messianic Judaism, Jehovahs witness, and many many scam cults

>>17908229 (OP)
A big contributing factor was that the jesuits were effectively a trading empire, heavily intertwined with Spanish commerce. This lead to the upper class of Japan’s hierarchy being persuaded with western goods rather than genuine fate. Funny how it mirrors jews in the west, a ‘foreign’ (jews are pretty much mixed with a bunch of differing native regional races) group moving in and convincing you to their side through bribery.

>>17914854
It's a good thing you aren't in charge of the world anymore, Papist. You would burn religious scholars at the stake for finding similarities between religions. You'd burn scientists for finding things that counter signal Catholic dogma.

Thank the gods for the Reformation (post TLC) wresting control of Western countries from the Inquisition.

>>17915195
Almost all witch hunts happened after the Dark Ages, which is the Reniassance

So yeah. That's your progress

>>17908229 (OP)
>>why would they reject the divine?
because it would interfere with their demonic pederasty practices

>>17914552
Free WIll does not exist in the mind of an atheist because you uphold the belief that everything is material
Material has no free will - everything is just an ongoing chain reaction
Atheists believe that humans are material only, therefore we have no free will

If we have no free will, then there is also no such thing as right and wrong. Everything is just an ongoing chain reaction that we cannot stop.

Free Will is a matter of Faith
Faith that God loves us, and is allowing us to choose whether we want to love him or reject him
Faith that humans aren't just material, but also divine (soul)
And Faith that he made us for a specific design (good) and we were deceived into abandoning our stations for our own selfish desires (evil)

>>17908229 (OP)
They werent. Timing and political landscape was just not suitable. In Korea it was right that is why it was successful there.

>>17913375
The most powerful Christian daimyo was probably poisoned by Hideyoshi

>>17915249
>side eyes systemic abuse in catholic church and youth churches

lol you must be joking

>no good tree can bear bad fruit

also rabbi yeshua was arrested with a boy with a cloth

>>17914946
>heavily intertwined with Spanish commerce.
Portuguese, not Spanish.
It was Spanish friars interfering from the Philippines that ultimately ruined the Christian mission. The Jesuits and the mendicant orders despised each other. They also ruined the Christian mission in China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Rites_controversy

>>17915341
Did you choose to be born?

Can god's will be thwarted?

Let's see your answers

>>17916069
No, an omnipotent God's will cannot be thwarted, something seemingly only Reformed Theology takes seriously.

>>17908455
Yeah, as brutal as the repressions were, especially by modern standards, using Catholicism to undermine the local power structure and then swoop in and conquer the place was literally Spain and Portugals modus operandi at the time. The Japanese had a front row seat to watching it happen throughout the pacific, most notably the Philippines. He probably could have been a bit nicer about it but expelling the catholics was 100% the right call.

>>17916069
No, God makes children because he wanted creatures who can share his love

His will is for you to decide whether you want to accept that love or not.

>>17916316
>using Catholicism to undermine the local power structure and then swoop in and conquer the place was literally Spain and Portugals modus operandi at the time.

This is demonstrably not true. Spain's greatest conquests in Mexico and Peru were effected by the sword and plague, not by the cross. It was only a full decade after the conquest the Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared to St. Juan Diego. Even in the Philippines the Spanish had already won the battles around Manila before the friars began preaching.

This is even less true of the Portuguese. Goa and Malacca were conquered with the help of local allies long before they were baptized or converted. If the Portuguese truly wished to conquer Japan they would have done so in the decade upon arrival as was the case in India or Malacca. They didn't because the only reason they had conquered in Goa and Malacca was the local Muslim opposition that materialized upon their arrival.

>>17908229 (OP)
Japan was too far away and organised for missionaries to have a considerable effect

South Korea is just nearby Japan but their largest religion is Christianity.

>>17916334
>No
You don't have free will then

>His will is for you to decide whether you want to accept that love or not.
This is not biblical. "It is not by your work that you should boast"

Enjoy helly

>>17917001
It's a fairly recent turn of event, and largely driven by contrarianism and cargo cultism. They took up Christianity to be contrarian to China and Japan, and to endear themselves to the US.

I'm so glad Japan didn't fall for the kike psyop and lose their identity. Any christkikes reading this are free to dilate.

>>17917037
>>17917072

South Korea is Christian and is now far richer than Japan.

>>17916601
The Dutch only managed to defeat the Portuguese in Indonesia because they allied with the Muslim sultanates, like Aceh and Johor
Same with the English with the Safavid dynasty to expel them from Hormuz
They were defeated in Macau and Brazil because they didn't have any Muslim allies there
The Ming preferred the reliability of the Portuguese over the piratical Dutch

>>17917349
mexico, africa, etc are all christian and shitholes lol

their success is despite of christianity not because of.

>>17918507
Majority of shitholes are nonChristians