Thread 17911375

Isn't the mass hallucination cope that atheists use against Christians with the resurrections just special pleading?
They try to justify it with the fact that it's a supernatural event, that it's not real because it's not natural.
Just seems circular all-round, don't it?

>>17911375 (OP)
christcuck (jew worshipper) post detected, opinion rejected

why are christcuck arguments so hilariously disingenuous

The Church of Scientology could make a stronger argument for their cult at this point

>>17911375 (OP)
What resurrections?
If you are talking about The Resurrection. Mass hallucination is not necessarily the only explanation. It could have also been: made up, grave robbery, fraud, and so on.

>>17911396
That's not even a theory worthy of being entertained, as it leaves out the explosive growth of Christianity given the degree of persecution, it was all just about sacrificing with nothing to gain.
And the "thousands" of witnesses who died for what they claimed they saw, all that is left without an explanation.
Also the completely radical new set of values.

>>17911409
>source
>my ass

you don't even know what happened to the apostles

that's why you call their martyrdom "christian tradition" ie. fairytales

>>17911413
That's doesn't refute anything I said, it's just vigorous denial.

>>17911409
Both Islam and Mormonism grew faster than Christianity, at the expense of Nicene Christianity, and have traditions about martyrs. Therefore the Mohammad and Joseph Smith angelophanies really happened.

>>17911428
Mohammed and his followers were overtly stated to be incentivized by gains, I don't know how it even comes into your to compare its growth with Christianity's as if they are even in the same ballpark.
>martyrs
With the dubious exception of Muhammed, there isn't a single followers of his who even had supernatural experience, much less something to die for.
Christians died for their witness-based beliefs, again, how are they even in the same ballpark?
Isn't this just a classic case of the fallacy of equivocation?

>>17911409
The growth of Christianity (which btw even on the mpost generous estimates did not exceed 10% of the Roman population before Constantine) is completely unrelated to the authenticit of the Gospels. People buy into the Book of Mormon every day and I doubt you'd claim that one's real.
>And the "thousands" of witnesses who died for what they claimed they saw, all that is left without an explanation.
Only like fifteen or so martyrs ever actually met Jesus in any form, everyone else just took their word for it. Also Mormonism could say this exact same thing.

>>17911375 (OP)
They are literally, genuinely in cahoots with or possessed by demons to a certain degree.
If someone was resurrected right in front of them, they would act like zoomers who scream "Chat, is this real?!!" into their livestream when they see something they didn't think would happen. They would then take inventory of their most prized resource, group consensus. Whispering in corners together about what to think about what they just witnessed, putting the most weight on what the most powerful and popular people in the group had to say.
What would dictate the words that came out of their mouths regarding the resurrection they witnessed would be what would garner them the most favor with the greatest number of their peers.
They are superficial, so it doesn't matter what they think or believe, what matters is what they let out of their mouths. That could get them crucified, but no one can read minds.
"You do well to believe. So do the demons- and tremble." And the demons will outright lie because it is in their best interest at this point for they are royally doomed.
These types argue like Hitler's example of the jews. Full of wide-eyed open provocation.
They could be saved if they were to grow a pair and face their inner selves and not be quitters.
Thorns and thistles, birds of the air, rocky ground and all that.

>>17911460
>The growth of Christianity is completely unrelated to the authenticity of the Gospels.
That is the very thing being questioned, is it possible without the supernatural forces at work, cause without the gospels being true, you are left with no explanations, which brings us back to the very gospels.
>fifteen or so martyrs ever actually met Jesus in any form
The Bible states over 500 and much more.
There are over hundreds of millions of people who believe they have had supernatural experiences which caused them to give their life for Christ, radically changed people claiming the Holy Spirit and so on and that's just the documented ones.

There's really just no sense to explain its growth without the Holy Spirit at work.
Especially more so now.

>>17911473
Apparently you are not allowed to feel panic when you see something that defies all your ideas of what is possible.
I'm sure that if your dog started speaking to you , your first thought would be about Jesus. (Though in all fairness it would be one of the first, because you'd think the dog is possesed).

Btw you don't know anything about how atheists think.

>>17911473
Yes you retard when something that defies all previous experience and known principles of logic and nature of reality occurs in front of you, rational people tend to question its veracity. When you watch magic shows do you also consider them miracles? David Blaine must be a fucking saint to you, he performed way more "miracles" than Jeebus

>>17911496
>Apparently you are not allowed to feel panic when you see something that defies all your ideas of what is possible.
I didn't say that, I said that people such as yourself would actively conspire to lie about and cover up the truth for social or material gain. The truth does not matter to you. You are in a drunken social fabric of a world, skewed and off-base from reality, where the truth we all know deep down is not what's important because demons are standing over you with a stick compelling you to say 2+2=5, or 4, or whatever they want you to say at the moment. The way to be released out from under their power is to come into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus is King here. He has power over demons, but can't help the hostages who have taken the terrorists' side.

>>17911505
“And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ “But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ “But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ “But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
The apostles witness all kinds of miracles. Walking on water, etc. So did the religious leaders. They didn't even deny the miracles, they just squirmed out of it by saying he cast out demons by the prince of demons.

>>17911487
The success of Islam proves it's truthfulness and divine inspiration according to your logic

But you won't agree to that lmao

>>17911487
Unbelievers think they are smarter than the religious and that the religious are just playing pretend. Add in millions of religious people who are actually playing pretend and it becomes a quagmire.
It comes down to spiritual laziness, complacency, pride, procrastination and fear on the unbeliever's part. It takes some of the hardest "work" one will ever do to clear away all the smoke and pollen and dust in the spiritual air and JUST FACE GOD for once in the deepest recesses of one's heart. I was like that my whole life until I took acid one time and sat down with myself and decided my priorities needed a serious rearranging. You can run on for a long time.
All it took for my spiritual life to begin to change was to be sincere and honest with myself for once in my life and to read the gospels as if, perhaps, maybe they were telling me the truth.

>>17911564
You retards unironically killed people for presenting the fact the Earth revolved around the Sun. Among multitudes of inane bullshit that resulted in death and torture because the truth threatened your jewish fairytales.

Fuck off.

>>17911588
>no rebuttal

I accept your defeat

Repent and go to Allah before he burns you in jahanam. Even Jesus was allahs prophet and attested to the muslim faith.

>>17911583
Heliocentrism is as real as the moon landing.
They always use a bit of truth to make their lie work.

>>17911595
That picture perfectly depicted what you did, which in turn perfectly depicted what you are.

>>17911583
Don't put that evil on me, you know I never did that.
As if I'm a part of the Satanic and worldly religious establishment that kills people they disagree with.
The very people Jesus beat with a whip who then crucified Him.

>>17911600
Nope.

Jesus was pointing to islam. Billions of people believe it. They can't be wrong.

>>17911603
The things they accuse Christians of always end up being a consequence of not being a Christian, but atheistic, secularistic.

>>17911603
You're entire religion boils down to "obey me or you deserve eternal torture" lmao

Fuck off

>>17911606
Wrong, hell wasn't mean for man, it's just there is no other place besides with God or Satan.

>>17911564
>all it took for my spiritual life to change was a brain-frying dose of acid
Lol

>>17911604
Is it from a witness-based belief tho?

>>17911609
Drugs are also used for demonic shamanistic purposes.
Be sober. The mind is both flesh and immaterial with no size and can extend beyond space and time.
If you were trying to appeal to materialism.
But yeah, that also feels like a cheat.
There's just so many things we have no idea about, the order of Melchizedek, that shaman like prophet, etc.

>>17911609
I heard acid makes your brain work 20x faster. For me, it was kind of like how it is described about how people with "ADHD" are finally able to sit down and focus when they take adderall. I just decided to wash the overflowing pile of spiritual dirty dishes in my head. I didn't "see things that weren't there" on acid, I saw visual things and thought thoughts that were always there but I didn't see or think before. On the other hand, shrooms caused the open-eye visual type stuff and was also spiritually deep for an hour or so.
I'm sure something else would've got me on my way eventually if I wasn't doing drugs. Not that I would recommend it, it's just what happened.

Trick isn't the right word

>>17911613
Yep the book says so

>>17911630
But it isn't even in the book though.

>>17911640
It literally is though

>>17911657
Well? What are you waiting for? Don't disappoint me now.

The fact that a weak natural explanation is viewed as more probable than a strong supernatural explanation is kind of hypocritical.

>>17911538
Cool but David Copperfield made Statue of Liberty disappear. Can Jesus do that?

>>17911689
What is a "strong supernatural explanation"? Do you apply this standard to anything else that is not related to your specific religion? Do Indian saints and Miracles also have Strong super-natural explanations?

>>17912620
A strong supernatural explanation invokes something beyond the laws of nature, isn't just a gap filler but a necessary explanation, and depends on the supernatural element always existing, not as an optional interpretation.

>>17911375 (OP)
>Crazy magic stuff happened thousands of years ago but not anymore for some reason
Embarrassing to believe in a thousands of years old game of telephone.

>>17912660
If it's beyond the laws of nature, it's not repeatable in a controlled environment and therefore it's not worth talking about.

Give me a reason why I should trust you over the schizophrenic homeless man raving about his levitation powers he can never show or demonstrate.

>>17912701
The truth is interesting, nobody cares what you make of it.

>>17912708
The truth is worthless if it can't be demonstrated to others. Your voice has the same power as the schizophrenic homeless man and nothing you do, by your own acknowledgement, will change that.

The scientists won because they gave the world a stronger argument. If you want to beat them, you'll have to do better.

Or wallow on your piss, who cares

>>17912714
>The supernatural is not real cause it's not natural.
Isn't that just doubling down?

>>17911473
>If someone was resurrected right in front of them blah blah blah
Cool story, too bad we can't put that to the test because it's never happened, never will happen, and is impossible. Quite a crazy cope to imagine a world where the evidence for your case is strong and your opponents react irrationally so you can feel like you are being rational in the actual world.

>>17912726
Well, at least you're comfortable wallowing on your piss. Post a wojak next! That'll be sure to convert em lol

>>17912701
Unlike the homeless guy, I have historical testimony.

>>17912660
Can you explain what you mean by necessary, sorry, I don't quite know if I understand what you mean by it.

>>17912761
but do you actually or is it more so I heard from a guy who heard from a guy who heard from a guys cousin

>>17912691
>but not anymore for some reason
lol
lmao

>>17912858
I meant it needs to be meaningful, and not some cheap gap filler like "because God said so"

>>17912866
I actually heard from God himself

If I accept the level of evidence in the Bible as sufficient to believe in everything in Christianity, I'd also have to accept countless other supernatural and religious claims across the world.

>>17911588
Honestly sad. You make a thread and your entire stupid fucking idea is defeated in 1 sentence and you can't do anything post a picture of yourself.

>>17911375 (OP)
you convince other people it was seen. Authority backs you, and Rome pacifies. The priests get a taste of power and drive it home. Desperate people are quick to believe anything if it might help them out. Pretty slick. Look how far the lie has grown.

>>17911689
What strong supernatural explanation.