Thread 17928186

Why was African warfare so backwards and primitive they literally never evolved beyond tribal raiding
>no complex military organization
>no complex or intricate military tactics
>no siege weapons
>no complex weaponry beyond stone age tools
>no actual armor or even anything resemble uniforms
>no cavalry
>no actual interesting military battles or history
>literal stone age armies

you have no idea how much africa has advanced...

The biggest kingdom in the subsaharian africa (excluding Ethiopia or Sudan) was the mali empire, and it was only known in Eurasia because of the magnanimous Hajj he did.
What im saying with this is that subsaharian africa and north África/eurasia were very very distant, so the technological advancemennts done in eurasia never arrived to subsaharian till colonization.

nigger obsession thread #819203735241026

>>17928186 (OP)
I look like this but White

>>17928208
>What im saying with this is that subsaharian africa and north África/eurasia were very very distant, so the technological advancemennts done in eurasia never arrived to subsaharian till colonization.

but europeons were trading with india and china centuries before africa was colonized...

Weeeeeeeeeeeell my oh my that is a splendid buck for breaking I do declare

>>17928186 (OP)
This is what raped Spanish and Italian women for 900 years

>>17928229
no wonder they're both subhuman

>>17928219
Thats my point.
Eurasia was very interconnected, and therefore more technological advancemennts could be done in that region, while subsaharian africa was very isolated

>>17928251
>Eurasia was very interconnected

through ports. something africans never invented.

>>17928251
sub saharan africans were never isolated, they had contact with north africans, middle easterners and mediterraneans for millennia, they're just retarded and incompetent

>>17928208
Yeah, Indians have the same average IQ as niggers.

>>17928254
Definetely commerce through land was more important at least in the early eurasian civilizations

>>17928282
Indians?

>>17928269
They were always isolated.
That there were black people in north african civilization is rather because they were side by side with sudanese and ethiopians, but thats all.

>>17928289
Indians are as retarded as them yet they had civilizations and it explained by not being cut off.

>>17928229
According to afrocentric delusions

>>17928284
did sub-saharan africa have roads?

>>17928210
ork mech boyz

>>17928186 (OP)
pedro innovating or is this a new schizo?

>>17928293
you literally just listed two sub saharan civilizations that clearly weren't isolated and had massive influences from egyptians and middle easterners you retarded nigger, and those two civilizations influenced the rest of sub saharan monkey tribes
Blacks were never an isolated race like polynesians, melanesians, australian aboriginals, inuits or native americans

>>17928294
Oh native americans.
Why would they be retarded? Its very great what they acomplished in mesoamerica.
Cities like Tenochtitlan, Teotihuacan or Tikal.
The milpa system and chinampas.
And specially the infraestructure in their cities, sacbes in the mayan region, and calzadas in the central altiplane, as well as the pressurized water aqueducts in palenque and the great aqueducts in Tenochtitlan.
They were kinda isolated too, even though they had a brief contact with the andid civilziations

>>17928306
>(excluding Ethiopia or Sudan)
Did you even read what i said?

>>17928306
>massive influences from egyptians
blacks were rounded up from the wilderness where they lived like animals, then they were shipped down river to be sold off around the med sea as slaves

that is all blacks ever did for the better part of five-thousand years

>>17928309
No, I mean dot indians.

>>17928186 (OP)
Bait thread

>>17928220


i can feel your Blacked receptors spiking

>>17928314
Like if millions of white werent slaved by the arabs

They lacked the materials to build the kind of weapons the Europeans had, but they adapted to their environment and made up for it.

>>17928321
name 10 materials.

>>17928319
brown people (what you call arabs) exist because of whites race mixing with black slaves

>>17928186 (OP)
Jean Boulègue's analysis of the sizes of Sudanese armies is interesting. We can deduce that the Askias could in theory mobilize 40,000 combatants. Songhai had in fact three permanent army corps of nearly 4,600 men each, one in Tendirma under the command of the Balma'a, another in Gao under the command of Askia, and another in Dendi, the region downstream from Kukiya, the religious and historical capital of Songhai. This army corps located on the south-eastern border of the Empire being the least powerful of the three. The rest of the Songhai army was made up of the fluvial flotilla of 2,000 canoes commanded by the Hi-Koi, admiral and Minister of the Interior, one of the main dignitaries of the Empire. Contingents from vassalized kingdoms made up the bulk of the troops: Mossis, Dendis and Macinas provided the infantry. However, the arrival of the Moroccans cut the Empire in two, depriving the Askia Ishaq II of the Kurmina army corps and part of its flotilla, while the unrest at the borders prevented the Dendi army corps from coming in time.

The civil war, which had divided the Empire, had also divided the army in two, Askia Ishaq II could not mobilize the forces of the West whose headquarters were in Timbuktu and Djenné, that is to say, behind the lines of Judar. In theory, he only had the two professional army corps of Gao and Dendi, part of his fluvial flotilla and Tuareg and Gourma allies difficult to estimate. The Tarikh al-fattash which offers 18,000 cavalry and 9,700 infantry also gives a more accurate picture of a Songhai army cut off from its professional contingents and more than essentially made up of a noble knighthood.

>>17928326
I see, so these rapebabies enslaved the whites?
How does that argument favors your case?

>>17928311
yes and you're still retarded, sub saharans had domesticated cattle, goats, sheep and crops from the middle east not to mention entire civilizations coexisting with egyptians and arabs, they were never an isolated race like abos, who hadn't seen another race of humans for 50,000 years prior to colonization

>>17928326

whites were historically enslaved resulting in modern intermediate phenotypes aka the mogrel races of the modern era

naturally, that was the extent of their contribution which was sufficient

Only ethiopia and sudan as i said

>>17928337
>>17928332
only in your deranged porn fantasies

>>17928298
Paco cope

>>17928358

Nogs typically didnt use war, they used sex... to conquer

thats why much of the ruling class presiding over the west present a white face despite having black daddies , a lineage of authority that remains wholly unbroken

The legacy continues

>>17928318
You big city folk wouldn't understand our traditions. Gotta break a buck down if he gets too ornery.

>>17928415

those receptors function as the G-spot

thats why you turn from pink to red, and the job is only finished after you oink for Daddy

>>17928337
Why does the moor appears in most european shields when only spain and Sicily had moorish ancestry?

>>17928439
brownoids were accepted into white civilization to be literal meat shields, that is pretty much the only thing such abominations are good for

>>17928438
What yakubian science is this? Sounds awfully peculiar. Might need to take this one to the breaking barn lads.

>>17928448

its its pink its already broken, thats why Buck fills your little teacup

its not genocide, its renewal

>>17928454
Form coherent sentences you stupid baboon apething. The white man didn't grant you these gifts to waste.

>>17928492

sneed

>>17928445
They put them there beacuse of the moorish contrubutions to europe.
Simply as that

>>17928186 (OP)
Anyone can make up anything about Africa being lacking any types of technologies and it be believed,
Even the liberals who will try and defend Africa "lack of technology" themselves no little about African societies themselves.

One group of African could of absolutely had that technology while another one lacked it but again Africa is just one huge primitive family no seriously gives a fuck about the history of that places not even Africans themselves

>>17928186 (OP)
African cities having moats, walls, and watch towers kinda disprove this because who would they be building this against if their were not organized armies and weaponry

>>17928269
the white side of this jug literally has "beautiful" written in Greek, with "ugly" on the Black side. LOL!

>>17928317
every thing in this pic was invented/imported from outside Africa. pure Arab LARPing.

>>17928186 (OP)
>no complex military organization
They did have those. How do you think those massive military and war campaigns occurred exactly? Can't wage wars of expansion if you have no military, system of hierachy and a system of training them.

>>17928606
savage beasts and natural disaster. not siege warfare, or any sort of organized military actions.

>>17928594
>not even Africans themselves
They study a lot of it and local/oral history is huge there. Why do such a rant if you are gonna out yourself as a retard while doing so?

>>17928618
This is some Olympic level gymnastics.

>>17928329
The Songhai armies are very unequally armed and equipped. Unlike the armies of the Mali Empire (1230-1468) which were made up of aggregate contingents of warriors free from their vassals, mobilized in the off-season on the same pattern as the medieval host, the Songhai armies since Sonni Ali Ber are made up of a nucleus of professional soldiers mobilized full time and for the most part from servile caste, owned by the Askias. It is these contingents of infantry that form the three army corps permanently stationed along the Niger River.

In addition to the establishment of a standing army, the Songhai profoundly modified the armament and equipment of the permanent troops: the copper iron javelins replace the old spears, the armor equip the cavalrymen, the infantrymen are protected by breastplates in hippopotamus leather. Moroccan and Sudanese authors speak readily of "armor", implying iron armor, Songhai infantry and horsemen, which they wear under their tunics. Under the term armor, the Sudanese armies classify two types of protection: on the one hand solid gambesons, on the other hand coats made either of iron mail (worn in particular by the warriors of Kanem-Bornou on the model of cataphracts) or light iron plates. The uncertainty arises from the fact that we will speak in Sudan of armor, including for cavaliers equipped with gambesons, as the officers of the Voulet and Chanoine column and of the Joalland-Meynier mission will realize when they face the knighthood of the Sultan of Zinder (1899).

>>17928633
The expenses occasioned by such equipment gradually excluded free men of modest means from the ranks of the army. Now the war opposes a warrior aristocracy solidly and costly equipped, supported by well-armed professional fighters against the traditional free men, warriors and hunters. The Songhai army imposes itself on these traditional fighters by the superiority of its training and its equipment. Judar Pasha does not therefore face an undisciplined horde of valiant but almost naked warriors; he has in front of him a structured and solidly equipped army, trained and with a strong bellicose ideology."

Now there are a few minor things here that aren't exactly correct like the part about "Dendis" and "Macinas" who of course aren't ethnic groups(The author probably meant Fulanis for the Macinas. Also the western headquarters of the army would've been in Tendirma, where the Kurmina-Fari/Kanfari(Just realized we technically have the same :)) was stationed.

>>17928612
really? what are the greek words? can you write them?

>>17928208
>so the technological advancemennts done in eurasia never arrived to subsaharian till colonization.
I mean certain technological developments did arrive in certain parts of the continent and others were developed independently like agriculture and metalworking.

>>17928302
>did sub-saharan africa have roads?
in certain empires yes

>>17928302
Retarded question, of course they did. Most roads in the past were laid by simply walking through terrain (Desire Paths) and these desire paths were then maintained either through continual traffic or through deliberate road maintenance.

>>17928302
>>17928874

>>17928186 (OP)
Simple. Any form of warfare much more complicated than that requires all kinds of ancillary technologies, institutions, customs, cultural traits, etc. You can't have a disciplined professional army if you don't have an economy large enough and organised enough to support them (and a population/political class happy to pay for them), you can't have an economy that large and organised if you don't have a dedicated and well trained administrative apparatus in both the government and the various businesses that make up your economy, you can't have that without an established and functional education system (even if not universal) to train the administrators, etc, etc, etc, etc.

You do see some exceptions to this, say with Shaka's reforms to the Zulu army, but that was in a comparatively highly militarised society in the context. Outside of that none of the powers in the region had the second, third, and fourth line institutions etc needed for much more than they had - and because nobody could do much better than that it worked for all of them; at least until people who had more developed societies (Arabs, Europeans, and now the Chinese) arrived and started breaking the system.

>>17928207
>>17928210
>Armored Core: Fires of Cape Town

>>17928877
ah yes the beaten paths of africa

>>17928707
nta but I googled 'old greek for ugly' and one of the words that resulted was κακός, which im pretty sure is in fact written over the black faces head in that picture

>>17928613
Most military equipment in most countries are made abroad too. Having imported equipment doesn’t mean you’re not good, it just means others are better.

>>17928329
>We can deduce that the Askias could in theory mobilize 40,000 combatants

They sure as hell couldn't mobilize 40,000 construction workers though

>>17928208
That’s the point, they were pushed into no man’s land by other tribes of people because they lacked technology and military tactics to fight for a better spot near more thriving resources.

>never ending loop of needing stuff and never having it means the whole are is a giant trash can

>>17929975
> It bears testimony to the power and riches of the empire that flourished in the 15th and 16th centuries through its control of the trans-Saharan trade, notably in salt and gold.

kek

>>17928186 (OP)
>no complex military organization
Why would they need a complex organization for small bands of warriors where everybody already knew one another, and thus already have an established hierarchy within their society?
>no complex or intricate military tactics
Brilliant strategy and tactics is about execution and timing more than how complicated the ideas are. In fact I would say the best military tactics are often the simplest, because they are the most reliable. The more moving parts a machine has the easier it breaks down, and that also applies to plans and strategies. The more different parts of the plan depend on the successful execution of other parts of the plan, the more opportunities there are for the whole thing to fail.
>no siege weapons
Why would they when there was no use for them?
>no complex weaponry beyond stone age tools
See above for "complex weaponry" being inherently good. It's about trade offs. Guns are an obvious advantage over spears and bows, and are complicated machines compared to those simple weapons, but their complexity is incidental here. They're superior because of the tactical advantages they provide to a force equipped with them, but the trouble is either manufacturing or procuring them in the first place. Subsaharan Africans who first acquired firearms from Europeans put them to pretty immediate and successful use in their tribal conflicts. Thus it wasn't a matter of not being able to use such weapons, it was a matter of producing them, and that lies in the issue of economy and industry rather than military development.
>no actual armor or even anything resemble uniforms
Uniforms are a component of complex structure, so there's no need for them. Everybody already knows who their allies are. And they did have armor, made of wicker and grass usually.
>no cavalry
No horses.
>no actual interesting military battles or history
In your opinion.

>>17929975
>see look look building no look good cause no stone
Its a burial mound a traditional Soninke thing, you seem to use them building things from earthen or mudbrick as a though terminating cliche, you're saying because this doesn’t impress you it means historical accounts unrelated to this must be wrong, this thread was about military stuff, you’re welcome to actually debunk these claims, but I know you can’t because if you could you would’ve

>>17928613
>already doing the it was arabs cope

Is thought terminating cliches all you have? No seriously do you have actual refutations? Just like an actual argument

Mande Army

A battle during the second half of the XVIth century between the Mane (Mande speaking people coming from Mali) and the Susu in Sierra Leone. Again from Alvares de Almada. According to him, the tactics and weapons of most people in Senegambia and the Guinea coast were similar (he describes the same type of formation for the Wolof as can be read in post 538, and also for the Mande subjects of Mali along the Gambia river), so a description of a battle in some detail like this one might be useful to understand warfare amongst those peoples during the XVI century and probably earlier:

Although the Manes were very confident because of the many victories they had won in these parts, and although they vere accustomed to seek out the enemy on his own ground, they had lost some of their great self-assurance, and showed some hesitation. Precisely why I do not know, unless it was because the people they led were soldiers made out of Sapes whom they had captured in their own homeland and were not all (true) Manes, or else because they saw some sign which they took as a bad omen. Whatever it was, when they had passed over a river after entering the land of the Souzos, and were warned that the Souzos were marching against them, the captains and governors called a halt, and the Manes threw up strong entrenchments and stayed there, using the river as a wall.

>>17930800
They sent out scouts, and found that the enemy had done the same. But when the Souzos learnt that the Manes were not advancing, they went forward in very good order to meet them, until they camped near them, and fortified the camp. The next day, at sunrise, the Souso and Fulo captains began to deploy their men and arrange them in order of battle. When they were all in position and ready, the king addressed the whole army, through many heralds. [...] The king spoke these words with much courage and force, bearing his weapons and leaning on a bow which he held like a stick. When he had finished his speech, and all had assured him that they would not return home as conquered men, unless (they were carried there) dead, he ordered the musical-instruments of the army to be played, and at the sound of these they began to march towards the enemy camp. Seeing them coming, the Manes remained behind their fortifications, as if they feared the outcome of what was to follow. They did not care to sally out or place themselves in order of battle, as they saw the Souzos doing. They sent out only some small detachments, which advanced to attack the Souzos on the flank. But the Souzos were not at all disordered by these attacks, and continued to march in step, all together.

>>17930802
At the head of the army came seven men mounted on horses which were small as ponies, but were saddled and bridled. These horses had hairy manes and must certainly have been Fulo horses, and carried great bells on their breast-bands. All together in step, this well-ordered army advanced, shield-bearers in front and on the flanks, archers in the centre. When they were near (the enemy) they simultaneously threw themselves into the attack and assaulted (the camp). Those on horseback placed their hands on the atabanca - as they called the entrenchments in this language - and broke them down. It must be said that on the Mane side they did not fail to fight back very strongly, for there were many of them; but their opponents were very brave. They were not an army of mixed nations (as the Mane army was); they had only the Fulos, who are a very bold people. And the Souzos knew that it was vital to exert all their strength in this battle, since if they were once conquered they would never regain their security. Their whole land would be destroyed, and their wives and children killed, and on this victory depended on their security. (In contrast,) the Manes , if defeated, would remain masters of all the lands they had previously gained; they kept men in these lands and waged war on the same people they brought with them. But if they had the victory, they would not stop util they had conquered all of the Souzos, as they had done with the Sapes; and therefore the Souzos put forward all their strength in this battle.

>>17930806
The Manes, after coming to these parts and to the Malagueta Coast had conquered the coastal lands and were (therefore) experienced in a travelling by sea; hence, they were good sailors and swimmers. When they were defeated (in this battle) they retreated across the river by swimming, particularly the Bolons and Temenes whom they had brought in their army, but many were killed and made captive. The Souzos, since they had been in the habit of crossing this river frequently on their trading excursions, and knew the fords, went over in military order and pursued the enemy, killing and capturing many of them, so that, according to the blacks who took part in this war, only the bravest and speediest of the men escaped. For as soon as they stopped at one place and tried to draw breath, the Souzos were on them, killing and capturing them

According to Almada, there was a shared military tradition amongst most peoples he talks about, with some exceptions. There were four types of units: archers, shieldbearers, cavalry with javelins/short spears and horse archers. Access to horses was very unequal in the region, so while the Great Fulo have in his words "many horsemen, and in his lands there are many horses, and from these are supplied all (the horses required by) the Jalofos, Barbacins and Mandingas, those of the interior as well as those of the coast.", other peoples like those in Sierra Leone are described as having no cavalry at all. This must have been true for Mali as well, with northern regions under the Faran-sura having more cavalry available than southern regions under the Sanquara-zuma'a. This has some support from the sources, since the Mane, who were Mande who departed from southern imperial Mali circa 1500 and conquered most of the Malagueta Coast and Sierra Leona from 1550, did not have any cavalry but fought otherwise the same as other Mande more to the north or even as the Wolof.

>>17930807
Swords and knives were common, as were spears and bows. Metal armours are not mentioned anywhere for Mali, although metal helmets are possible since they appear later in Songhay sources. The Djenne terracotta riders have helmets, but it can't be known if they depict metal or leather. Almada mentions cotton armor for the Wolof "They have long strips of cotton, that they roll and wear from the groin to the chest very compressed, and armed in this manner no arrows or assegais can go through". I don't know how far back these go and their use by imperial Mali forces, if they used them at all. Most soldiers would be unarmored, in any case, especially the archers. Both large shields of leather and of poles and woven rattan are described for Mande peoples, and they are stated to have been very strong. The Djenne terracottas provide visual evidence of these things

However, note that Djenne was never fully submitted to Mali at most it paid tribute on occasion, and that they probably represent local traditions of the Niger Bend. For example, these terracottas depict individuals with a naked chest, while Ibn Battuta's, al-Umari's and the Portuguese descriptions state that the Mande they met (infantry and cavalry) wore tunics and smocks, and caps and turbans. Thus, the likeness of a typical Mali soldier can't be directly drawn from the Djenne terracottas, although they give information on things on a regional macro scale, like those described in the previous paragraph.

>>17930809
The cavalry (Wolof, Fulani and Mande of various kinds) are described by Almada as:

"The weapons they use in war and (carry) in peace are those stated (swords and knives), and also six short barbed spears and one large one. In battle, fighting on horseback, they throw (the short spears) to strike down the enemy. (bat) always keep the large one to attack with, never allowing it out of their hand. They do not use javelins or long lances as we do, because the land is covered with trees among which they must fight their wars."

The infantry are described routinely as both shieldbearers with assegais and archers (in 1453 by Zurara, describing events 5 years earlier, by Almada, etc.). That they are present in all areas ruled once by the Empire of Mali, even in 1448 when the Jolof Empire was just breaking off from Mali, means that that shared tradition had been created and spread earlier. The most likely option is that the Mande peoples created it at some point and spread it through their expansion, especially Malian expansion, from the 14th century onwards. This explains why the greatest deviations from the model witnessed by the Portuguese occurred in peoples far from Malian imperial authority and from the expanding Mande, like the Bijagos islanders and the Sapes in Sierra Leone.

>>17930814
The infantry were apparently the primary force of Mande forces relied on to win battles, at least in the south and southeast were horses were more scarce. Almada describes Wolof tactical disposition (and Mane, Susu, and most in the region, again reinforcing the notion of a shared tradition propagated by Mali) as follows: "Their infantry use the same weapons as the cavalry. In battle they are drawn up in formations of squadrons and lines, the shield-bearers in the front and on the flanks, the archers in the middle so that the shield-bearers guard them." The archers, however, were probably expected to fight in melee too after weakening the enemy with a shower of poison arrows, and large scale battles are described as being decided in hand-to-hand fighting.

They appear to have discipline and maneuver in good order, and not as a mob of warriors, marching to the sound of instruments. They also used scouts and patrols to gather intelligence on their enemy:

"Those who are practiced in military matters are well disciplined and accustomed to suffer hardships in military service." "[...] he ordered the musical-instruments of the army to be played, and at the sound of these they began to march towards the enemy camp". "They formed a large force jointly with the Fulos who neighbour them, and when the army seemed large enough to defend them from the enemy and to launch an attack, they marched out with scouts and sentinels. Knowing that the enemy was a few days march away, they sent patrols ahead". "They sent out scouts, and found that the enemy had done the same. But when the Souzos learnt that the Manes were not advancing, they went forward in very good order to meet them, until they camped near them, and fortified the camp."

>>17930818
Mande forces seemed to routinely establish fortified camps when their army stopped marching, to defend against possible enemy attacks. Regular fortifications were made of rammed earth and wooden stakes, with towers and bastions along the walls. They also had incendiary mixtures of pitch tar to defend against siege attempts. These regular forticications were called sãosans by the Mande subjects of Mali along the Guinea river. Field fortifications for army camps are described in the context of the Mane invasion of Serra Leone, and they are called atabancas, and consisted of mounds with woodwork, and ditches. Since they are the only Mali-linked force described extensively in the context of maneuvers and campaigns, it's only for them that we have evidence in this period. However, the appearance of field fortifications in a battle between Bainuk people and Mande from Casamance (subjects of Mali at the time) in the Bainuk side points at the practice being widely used by well organized forces in the region, amongst which we can count Mali. Taking into account the possible earlier spread of military traditions mentioned before, it is probable that these practices were, at the very least, originated at some point during medieval Mali.

There are few battles between local forces described with some tactical detail. Almada describes two of them. The first one is between the King of Casamance, which is stated to be subject to a Farim (a corruption of the Mali title Faran) under the rule of the Mandimansa (the emperor of Mali), and a kingdom of the Bainuk:

>>17930820
The King of Casamanga had this cacis summoned because he was about to give battle to King Bambara, his enemy, who lived on the other side of the river and belonged to the Banhun nation, and he wished to learn from the caciz what day he should give battle and whether he would win. To discover (the answers), the caciz carried out many ceremonies, such as that involving the boy and the water, at which he asked (the spirits) what the enemy was doing and many other questions. And he told the king that he would gain the victory. Having been given this reply, the king made preparations, and after assembling many armed men he crossed to the other side of the river in a large number of canoes and in some of our ships. When these touched land, and all the force had assembled, he began to march towards the enemy, who were in fortified positions nearby. The caciz marched happily along in front of the army, holding batons in his hands as if he was directing it; and he passed the word on to all (following) that they should attack the enemy in their fortifications when he gave a certain signal. The enemy did not wait for him to give the signal.

>>17930824
As the Casangas drew near them, they sounded to arms very rapidly, and threw themselves upon them with such force that they overwhelmed them. The Casangas were routed and put to flight. As they boarded their boats, many were drowned, for the numbers were so great that those of our men who were assisting the king (to escape) had to kill many Casangas, cutting their hands off as they clung to the boats, since with so many aboard the boats would have gone to the bottom. In this way the king was saved from the fiasco. The enemy did not pursue, or keep within range, with the same enthusiasm that they had shown at the beginning of the action.

The second one is between the invading Mande speaking Mane and the also Mande speaking Susu people, in Serra Leone:

Although the Manes were very confident because of the many victories they had won in these parts, and although they were accustomed to seek out the enemy on his own ground, they had lost some of their great self-assurance, and showed some hesitation. Precisely why I do not know, unless it was because the people they led were soldiers made out of Sapes whom they had captured in their own homeland and were not all (true) Manes, or else because they saw some sign which they took as a bad omen. Whatever it was, when they had passed over a river after entering the land of the Souzos, and were warned that the Souzos were marching against them, the captains and governors called a halt, and the Manes threw up strong entrenchments and stayed there, using the river as a wall.

>>17930829
They sent out scouts, and found that the enemy had done the same. But when the Souzos learnt that the Manes were not advancing, they went forward in very good order to meet them, until they camped near them, and fortified the camp. The next day, at sunrise, the Souso and Fulo captains began to deploy their men and arrange them in order of battle. When they were all in position and ready, the king a addressed the whole army, through many heralds. [...] The king spoke these words with much courage and force, bearing his weapons and leaning on a bow which he held like a stick. When he had finished his speech, and all had assured him that they would not return home as conquered men, unless (they were carried there) dead, he ordered the musical-instruments of the army to be played, and at the sound of these they began to march towards the enemy camp. Seeing them coming, the Manes remained behind their fortifications, as if they feared the outcome of what was to follow. They did not care to sally out or place themselves in order of battle, as they saw the Souzos doing. They sent out only some small detachments, which advanced to attack the Souzos on the flank. But the Souzos were not at all disordered by these attacks, and continued to march in step, all together.

>>17930830
At the head of the army came seven men mounted on horses which were small as ponies, but were saddled and bridled. These horses had hairy manes and must certainly have been Fulo horses, and carried great bells on their breast-bands. All together in step, this well-ordered army advanced, shield-bearers in front and on the flanks, archers in the centre. When they were near (the enemy) they simultaneously threw themselves into the attack and assaulted (the camp). Those on horseback placed their hands on the atabanca - as they called the entrenchments in this language - and broke them down. It must be said that on the Mane side they did not fail to fight back very strongly, for there were many of them; but their opponents were very brave. They were not an army of mixed nations (as the Mane army was); they had only the Fulos, who are a very bold people. And the Souzos knew that it was vital to exert all their strength in this battle, since if they were once conquered they would never regain their security. Their whole land would be destroyed, and their wives and children killed, and on this victory depended on their security. (In contrast,) the Manes , if defeated, would remain masters of all the lands they had previously gained; they kept men in these lands and waged war on the same people they brought with them. But if they had the victory, they would not stop util they had conquered all of the Souzos, as they had done with the Sapes; and therefore the Souzos put forward all their strength in this battle.

>>17930831
The Manes, after coming to these parts and to the Malagueta Coast had conquered the coastal lands and were (therefore) experienced in a travelling by sea; hence, they were good sailors and swimmers. When they were defeated (in this battle) they retreated across the river by swimming, particularly the Bolons and Temenes whom they had brought in their army, but many were killed and made captive. The Souzos, since they had been in the habit of crossing this river frequently on their trading excursions, and knew the fords, went over in military order and pursued the enemy, killing and capturing many of them, so that, according to the blacks who took part in this war, only the bravest and speediest of the men escaped. For as soon as they stopped at one place and tried to draw breath, the Souzos were on them, killing and capturing them

>>17930834
Some descriptions of infantry from Mali or Mali-affiliated entities. One refers to infantrymen of the "King of Casamance", actually a subject of the Kaabu-fari (Farim Cabo for the Portuguese). The second refers to Mandinka non-Muslim guards (the source calls the caravan leaders Moors, but also states they were Mandinka. In this case, and given that they also apparently wore clothes like the Casamance Mandinka or the Wolof, the Moor probably denotes that they are Muslim, in juxtaposition to the guards who might not be. This is supported by the fact that there is a parallelism of these guards with the Manes, and that referring to any Muslims anywhere as Moors was typical between the Spanish and Portuguese of the period) of a Malian caravan trading in gold with people probably in modern Ghana in the Gold Coast. The third refers to the Manes in Sierra Leone. All are from the XVIth century, but note that the Manes left Malian territory following their queen Maçarico c.1500 and their infantry is identical to the caravan guards, so the descriptions can be safely projected into the XVth century and maybe before. Arm daggers are mentioned, and they are present in the Djenne terracottas (like the archer in the first post), so some regional continuity is present. The bolded text is mine.

In war they use spears, arrows, shields, knives and short swords, like the Jalofos [Wolof], and they wear the same clothes. [black or white smocks, cut away at the neck, sleeves reaching the elbows, reaching a hand-span above the knees. They also wore wide breeches that tightened towards the bottom and reached just below the knee. On their feet they had leather slippers. Their cotton caps were in the shape of a crown] They carry another weapon, a thick club of up to three hand-spans long, with knobs on it, which they throw at the legs (of enemies), or use to strike them on the head, to knock their brains out.

>>17930837
They use swords, arrows, and shields made of very strong thatch, which when wet are a protection against a spear or an arrow. Although made of thatch, - | they are effective and handsome, since what is called 'thatch' (here) is not really thatch: in fact, the shields consist of a framework of really very thick wooden staves, with reeds woven across the outside. They are very strong, and have fixed in the middle a diamond-shaped piece a hand-span across,

[...] the clothes of these merchants are the same kind as those of the Mandingas; the clothes of the guards who come with them are different, being large tunics and baggy trousers whose width continues to more than a hand-span below the knees, then they narrow like boots and cover the whole leg. They fix many feathers on their tunics, and in the caps they wear. They carry short swords like the other blacks, and two knives, one in the belt and the other attached to the upper left arm. The arrows they carry are short and the bows small. They say that they prefer these because (the arrows) are of no use to their enemies who have large bows, while the arrows of their enemies are of use to them. Although their bows are small, they shoot arrows accurately. They also carry spears and very strong shields made of poles and reeds.

The weapons of the Sumbas and of the people of Mandi Mansa are short bows and small arrows. They make them this way, they say, because their arrows being small and the bows of their enemies large, their weapons can be of no service to the enemy, since they cannot shoot (short arrows on long bows) or hurl them forcefully. But they themselves can make use of the arrows of their enemies in their (short) bows, since these arrows are long. The shields they carry are made from switches of wood and rattan, very well woven together, and strong, and of a size to cover a whole man completely.

>>17930841
They also carry short swords, and a knife in place of a dagger, and another knife tied to the thick of their left arm, and spears made out of long iron bars, with each end made the same shape in order to wound either way. In war they carry two containers, or quivers, containing many arrows. [...] They dress in smocks of cotton cloth which they commonly call shirts; these stop above the knees, and the wide sleeves go to the elbows. Their trousers almost reach the ground, with the bottoms more than a span below the knees; the trousers are wide and the smocks large. They wear many plumes of birds feathers in their shirts and caps.

A brief treatise on the rivers of Guinea (1594) by André Álvares de Almada. P. 12

From chapter 1 "Which discusses the Jalofo blacks, who are the first (to be met in Guinea) and the nearest to us; and their customs and laws".

>>17928282
Considering that indians and nigerians outperform other ethnic groups in higher education... I'm not as offended as I should be by that comment.

>>17930783
It looks like shit because it looks like shit

>Its a burial mound a traditional Soninke thing,
Burial mounds are primitive monuments
If Medieval Mali had burial mounts like prehistorical Britain, then stop selling it as some advanced Wakanda

>>17931022
So basically you got mad and had to immediately go into cope, your so mad your responding with a straw man, yet nothing to do with anything military, why are you so mad? You have no actual argument beyond “we ah look at this isn’t it ugly see see this refutes everything”

>>17930800
>>17930802
>>17930806
>>17930807
this read like a geek ancient source

>>17930802
>captains began to deploy their men and arrange them in order of battle. When they were all in position and ready, the king addressed the whole army, through many heralds. [...] The king spoke these words with much courage and force, bearing his weapons and leaning on a bow which he held like a stick. When he had finished his speech, and all had assured him that they would not return home as conquered men, unless (they were carried there) dead, he ordered the musical-instruments of the army to be played, and at the sound of these they began to march towards the enemy camp.
peak Xenophon, though lack of sacrifices

>>17931178
Who said anything about them being 'peaceful', retard? Not being able to build and sustain a dedicated standing army is not the same thing as never fighting.

>>17931337
the book discuss topic not only of the myth but also the way of fighting, logistic and few other things
no need to behave like a nigger you fat faggot

test

>>17931490
you failed

>>17928208
This doesn't explain how Native Americans developed complex civilizations and had metalwork while Africans didn't.

>>17928210
they should paint the rockets red so they fly faster

>>17929975
It's a 600 year old tomb made of mud brick of course its lost shape over the centuries

>>17928186 (OP)
>war never evolved beyond tribal raiding
>this is portrayed as bad by warmongering crackas

If no one had advanced weaponry and siege weapons in Africa then why were villages in Mali construction stone fortresses ???

Same with the other West African kingdoms making moats and watch towers it makes no sense

even small villages in southern Nigeria were making war towers and defense walls yet as you say no organized armies some how

>>17931551
>no metal working

>>17931551
>africans didn’t have metal working

This has gotta be bait the whole reason the bantu expansion happened was because of metalworking

>>17931482
>You don't know everything about a book you've never read
>WHAT A DUMB NIGGER
How closely related are your parents?

>>17931551
We really still doing this

>>17932852
He's right, you know.

>>17932154
>small villages in southern Nigeria

Even capital cities of African "empires" looked like small villages, so we can't deduce the locaal importance of this particular village with just one phtoto

Ack

>>17932854
I mean no hes not unless you think history is wrong in favor of your own feelings
>>17932859
Your gonna post a picture of a looted and pillage timbuktu a depopulated desert town

>>17932141
Koniakary wasn't a random village, it was the capital of the Khasso Kingdom and then became one of the main strongholds of the Tukulor Empire.
The tata (fortifcation) of Koniakary was aknowledged by the French as the most impressive they witnessed in the region (though they easily tcaptured it) and is still a major historical attraction in Mali nowdays.

>>17932854 #
I mean no hes not unless you think history is wrong in favor of your own feelings

>>17932859 #
Your gonna post a picture of a looted and pillage timbuktu a depopulated desert town, or a village in the congo

>>17932883
>Your gonna post a picture of a looted and pillage timbuktu a depopulated desert town, or a village in the congo

Or Kumasi, or Benin City, or Abomey...any precolonial Subsaharan capital, really.
1890s Timbuktu, despite looking like a fucking favela, was still much more impressive than most subsahran "cities".

>>17932883
I think he means metallurgy prior to Arab/Euro contact. Apparently the Bantu began a copper industry independently, it just occured in the 4th century (AD). I didn't know this desu.

>>17932892
Fun Fact: The Royal Palace of the Dahomey was made with human blood from sacrificed slaves in the paint. This was an old legend but it was confirmed to be real last year after samples of the palace were tested.

>>17932154
imagine mongolia invading and we get blasian kweens

>>17932892
So you posted something after the city was looted and burnt by the british
>>17932895
What arab or european contact did the Igbo have in the 9th century? Arabs are just a thought terminating cliche
>>17932912
So you gonna cite your source is it just in your head

>>17932892
>>17932895
>>17932912
So far nothing to with militaries or warfare its just retreating to the
>ah see look mud mud mud
Its all you guys really got

>>17933060
>So you posted something after the city was looted and burnt by the british

It's one of the buildings that were spared though

>>17932912
Here's the Royal Palace of Abomey
No idea about the paint since it's in black and white, but the structure was made with mud and straw, as usual...

>>17928186 (OP)
why do ogres worship strength over brains?

>>17928304
those are meganogz with twin killsawz and rokkit launchaz

>>17932228
more than yours you race mixed mongrel

>>17932154
walls are great way to increase difficulty of enemy raiding

>>17933091
How do you know?

>>17933097
Thats not the palace the actual palace was in ruins after the french assault you just posting the image from a site that mislabeled it

>>17930807
Adal's cities built fortifications and walls, while in Abyssinia, the Emperors constructed a capital of castles at Gondar, yet the Oromo style of ambush raids did not get reversed until Emperor Susenyos I took a page out of their own book and adopted their tactics;

"What makes the Gallas much feared is that they go to war and into battle determined and firmly resolved to conquer or die. The Emperor Seltan Çagued recognised this quality in them and in most of the Abyssinians the exact opposite. To this he used to ascribe the victories of the Gallas and the defeats and routs of the Abyssinians, though the latter are usually much more numerous and have better horses, muskets, helmets, and coats of mail in plenty. The Gallas do not usually come in bands of more than six or seven to eight thousand, but these are mostly picked young men.

The same Emperor used to therefore say that the Abyssinians could not possibly withstand their first onslaught. So he used to let them invade the country and steal the cattle and whatever else they found. He used to then wait in the way for them on their return. Their first fury was then broken and they were thinking of reaching their country and securing and preserving the booty with which they were loaded. In this way he often defeated them." - G.W.B. Huntingford's Some Records of Ethiopia, 1593-1646 Being Extracts from The History of High Ethiopia Or Abassia by Manuel de Almeida Book IV Chapter 20

As you can see, despite facing superior numbers and technology, the Oromo tactic of asymmetric warfare could still overcome bigger armies wearing armour, while they wore only cloth and other textiles and moved with a lean force of handpicked young men and excellent horses.

>>17933273
. A few of the references to armour in the Conquest of Abyssinia;

"So the imam asked him: 'And these soldiers of theirs, tell us about them - who are they? How many of them are there?' He said: They are from the people of Tegre, of Angot and of Fatagar. The imam then asked him, 'How many horses have they?' He replied:'Five-hundred horses from Rif with riders from Tegre - all of whom wear armour of iron and steel'."- Page 148

...

"The Muslims mounted their horses, put on their armour and their breastplates, proclaiming the unicity and the mightiness of God, and praying for [Muhammad] the unique Herald." - Page 134

...

"When morning came, the imam summoned the captives, the horses and the weapons of war. They presented the horses to him, five-hundred of them with their protective armour draped with red broad-cloth and velvet, with silk, and gold brocade of silk shimmering like fiery flames; with Davidic iron armour, helmets from Sabur, swords from Egypt, and shields made of hide from Abyssinia that resembled white baskets. He gave glory to the most high God, and took the fifth part of these and of the mules, and then divided the remaining horses and the mules amongst the mujahidun." - Page 78

...

"Army fused with army, swords were unsheathed, spear tips were aimed, emblems and banners were unfurled, flags fluttered, bridles clanked, horses whinnied, vast clouds of dust billowed up, and sweat poured from the breasts of the soldiers on account of the weight of the armour. Nothing could be heard from armies but the battle-cries of soldiers and the neighing of horses at the blows of the swords hitting the hide-covered shields and the iron helmets shaped like ostrich eggs." - Page 81

>>17933276
"The ignoble Abyssinians withstood the charge of the noble believers momentarily. But then the right wing of the infidels broke ranks, while the soldiers on their left wing held firm - the patrician Robel, the patrician Aser, the patrician Feqra lyasus and the patrician Wasu 'Utman. They and their standards stood firm like mountain crags wearing protective armour of helmets and coats of mail." - Ibid

...

"Two of the messengers returned from their journey bearing good news about the arrival of the Somali tribes. 'No one heard your letter read out,' the two of them said, 'without responding obediently to the Most High God. They have responded to your plea. Great numbers of them have equipped themselves with armour made from chain rings with overlapping tiers. The tribes have followed one another, kinsfolk in the footsteps of kinsfolk, tribe in the footsteps of tribe."

"They showed off their weaponry and armour, paraded their horses and had their bows slung sash-like over their shoulders as they met the imam face to face. He commanded them then to go ahead to a place called Sim. Their chieftain had brought with him his wife, Fardusa, the sister of the imam Ahmad. And he set out ahead, he and his army." - Page 43

…

"They made up an army that was like a plague of locusts whose number the Most High God alone knows. All the Christians, and the infidel army, with their soldiers assembled in Bet Amhara in untold numbers, wearing armor composed of chain rings set in neatly tiered rows, and with awesome weaponry." - Page 48

>>17933282
On Susenyos I and the Oromo chiffra system he adopted, it also had a part related to pitched battle, although Susenyos didn't adopt it wholesale and instead relied in great part in countering the Oromo system, fighting in broken ground that hindered their cavalry and furious charge and where his more armored and numerous spearmen formations could shine. Oromo liked to offer battle in big plains where their light cavalry could comfortably maneuver, and formed their infantry in deep shock formations (6 to 12 ranks) who relied on impact to break the enemy.

A battle of Za-Dengel against Oromo, from Pedro Páez's chronicle:

Splitting into three squadrons, they advanced to where the emperor was, and when he saw this he commanded his men to form three squadrons as well and, taking his place in the middle one, he went forth to encounter them. On coming close, one squadron of [Oromo] charged so furiously that it soon put the [emperor's] left-hand squadron to flight; they then did the same to the right-hand squadron, so that the emperor remained alone with his squadron facing the [Oromo] battle corps. When the captains saw that they decided to turn … , but when he heard this he dismounted from his horse, … saying 'I shall die here fighting. The rest of you can run away to the mountain…, but … people will say that the emperor whom you made yesterday was abandoned by you today at the start of battle'. At this, they all resolved to die without turning tail, and they attacked and fought so valiantly that they put the [Oromo] to flight

>>17933291
This does not mean that the Oromo foot formations were a massed rabble, because there are sources that tell us about how they maneuvered maintaining good order. This is a description by a Portuguese in 1548:

We were ready sometime, awaiting the [Oromos], when one day they appeared. They were innumerable, and did not come on without order like barbarians, but advanced collected in bodies, like squadrons. When they saw us they halted, some waiting for the rest, and then marched in one mass and camped near us, at a distance where our shots could do them no harm. As they were many and we were few, we did not go out to attack them, but waited in our camp. At the most there were one hundred and fifty of us, as the rest were already dead, nearly all in war, some few of sickness … Our camp was pitched on rising ground, whence we commanded the rest of the country, and stood over those that fought against us. We defended ourselves here for ten or twelve days, awaiting the king. During this time we killed many of them by shot, and by our artifices of fire, because they approached so fearlessly that we could aim every cast and shot. Meanwhile our powder failed, and as the king did not come, we had to leave the position in search of him. The [Oromos] did not pursue us: perchance because they also did not desire our company

Futuh al-Habesha

>>17933296
Yoruba

In Yorubaland, war expeditions were sent out once per year by the king of Oyo normally against the Gbe peoples. Normally to acquire spoils rather than captives or conquest. The winners rarely pursued the losers and those who ran off or hid were normally safe. After conquest, the shade trees of the main market were chopped down to signal victory. In the age of Oyo, slave raiding was virtually unknown. Sieges did not occur either. Standing armies didn't exist except in Ibadan where the rulers created a class of trained slave-soldiers. Young boys were often brought along to war campaigns, not for combat but as attendants to the warriors. And to teach them the horror of war. All men of fighting age were expected to participate in wars, but it was not enforceable except among men of status. At the end of battle, all men simply went back home to their farms.

Prior to the introduction of firearms, the main yoruba weapons were poisoned arrows, short cutlass-like swords called "Jomo", and heavy cutlass-like swords called "Ogbo".

Post Oyo supremacy, sieges were conducted during the dry season. Dry season was the more common time to engage in warfare in west africa. Rations were composed of parched beans and a hard chunk of cornbread called Akara-kuru. Foraging for food was allowed during military campaigns, however. Ibadan being more concerned with bellicose matters had the tendency to start farming the area around their military camps during long sieges.

>>17933299
There were two grades in the military: Junior and Senior. The senior "Balogun" was the commander-in-chief supported by his lieutenants "Otun" of the right and "Osi" of the left. Ranked below them in order were the Ekerin, Ekarun and Ekefa i.e. the fourth, fifth and sixth.
These men commanded the veterans.

The commander of the junior grades was called the Seriki. And under him were a lesser degree version of the Otun, Osi, Ekerin, Ekarun, and Ekefa. These men commanded the younger warriors.

They also commanded any men not attached to a senior warchief. A Sarumi was the cavalry chief and they formed their own separate branch of the military. Below him was a Balogun and so forth. The chief of a city state and the council members allowed to speak & vote would confer these titles on their soldiers.

In battle, the Asanju was the leader of the vanguard who provokes skirmishes with the enemy. He was supported by the "Badas" who were something like medieval knights. They were expected to own 2 war steeds and followers in battle. Badas fought on horseback using lances and swords. Seriki comes after the Badas along with his lieutenants and their soldiers while the Balogun with his veterans kept the rear. Cavalry attempted to break the ranks of the enemy when they could, and a favorite tactic to demoralize the enemy was to dash into their midst and kidnap a lieutenant right in front of everyone and take him away in shame.

War became a profession after the Fulani sacked Ilorin during the great jihad and sent the rest of the Yoruba tribes into a panic. It was because of this that Ibadan gained it's reputation for glory in war. Adventurers, mercenaries, and others from different tribes seeking combat traveled to join the people of Ibadan.

>>17933313
War was often declared in the name of the Alaafin of Oyo and his permission was required before a campaign. The leader of a town and his council assembled with the warchiefs and discussed the nature of the campaign. When it was decided, the Balogun would stand outside before the army and finish his speech by proclaiming "X town is at your mercy!". The assembled force would cheer and march out. The Balogun would take the war staff with him. The war staff was a 4 foot bamboo pole covered in charms and amulets with a round head about the size of a coconut. They were created in the holy city of Ile-Ife and given with the blessing of the Ooni (basically the yoruba pope). They were sacred to the god of war

Even Africa wasn’t free of steppe hordes

Mossi tactics:

"In bigger raids or expeditions, the Mossi continued to place their faith in cavalry. Should the expedition take as much as a week or ten days, soldiers would bring their own provisions, usually beans and water, and would supplement this by living off the land. Surprise was not a factor when a large force marched. When the enemy was sighted, the army moved into battle formation. The infantry formed a single skirmishing line and made first contact. The Mossi did not employ their cavalry as shock troops; horses and nobles were not so easily expendable as that. Next, the cavalry charged, organized in three units: right, centre and left. Provincial commanders remained in the rear to supervise the action. If the initial infantry attack was unsuccessful, the cavalry reserved the right to beat a hasty retreat, helping the infantry if possible, or applying the rule of sauve qui peut if necessary."

Echenberg, M. J. (1971). Late Nineteenth-Century Military Technology in Upper Volta. The Journal of African History, 12(2), 241–254

"Scouts preceded each district contingent as the army marched off to battle. Within the contingent, the younger warriors marched in front, followed by older men. It was the duty of the more experienced warriors to make sure that the younger men did not break ranks and run under the stress of battle. Behind the foot soldiers came the cavalry, composed of nobles and of the few commoners who possessed horses. Behind these came the district chief, surrounded by his own palace guard. Several heralds known as yumba (sing, yuma) accompanied the district forces to exhort them to fight. As the men marched to battle the yumba shouted:

>>17933324
Men! Your ancestors were not slaves. They were men. They were stronger than anyone else. They did not bathe with water; they bathed with blood. Do you wish to return home to drink millet water and eat bread? Never! A man does not eat bread or drink millet water; a man fights. Your ancestors were not afraid of anyone; you must not be afraid of anyone. Even if you are killed today, you must march ahead, beat your enemies, and take their villages. You must not be afraid!

Mossi armies on the march used scouts to keep a sharp lookout for the enemy or for any evidence that he was aware of an impending attack. The tactics these scouts used to avoid detection, such as camouflaging themselves with leaves and branches and crawling upon the ground, can be witnessed even today at Mossi funerals where men re-enact warfare practices. Whenever possible, the Mossi preferred to take the enemy by surprise, but this was seldom possible when large-scale fighting and massive preparations were involved. When two Mossi armies drew up to each other, the heralds from both sides issued such challenges and epithets as: "If you men do not wish to die,you should run or you will never eat again. We will have your blood to wash with." In the meantime, the Tansobadamba on both sides deployed their forces in accordance with the number of men available, the spirit of the enemy, and the nature of the terrain. From the description of warfare given to me by an old Tansoba in Nobere district, it appears that the strategy most commonly used was to split the infantry in two while attacking, thus making room for the cavalry to charge through. If the initial charge was successful, the attack was maintained, but if it failed, the army usually turned about and fled. Despite their braggadocio, Mossi commanders seldom insisted that their troops fight against overwhelming odds. However, shame over impending defeat often induced such officers as theTansoba and the Gounga Naba to fight to the death."

>>17933328
Izard, M. (1966). The Mossi of the Upper Volta. The Political Development of a Sudanese People.


"Mossi warriors cut rather awesome figures. To protect against the arrows of his adversary, the Mossi horseman covered himself with as much clothing as he could manage. He wore four or five tunics on top of each other, the outer garment covered with leather amulets and charms; he covered his head with a turban coiffed with a huge straw hat, and he wrapped several bou-bous around his waist. Similarly, he protected his mount with a large piece of leather under the saddle, that covered the croupe and flanks, and with a large frontal piece of copper for the horse's head"
Echenberg, M. J. (1971). Late Nineteenth-Century Military Technology in Upper Volta. The Journal of African History, 12(2), 241–254

"The village chiefs, in turn, beat their war drums to summon their noble cavalrymen and commoner foot soldiers, who came armed with bows and arrows, spears, swords, and clubs, with or without iron tips. The tips of the sharp weapons were often covered with a vegetable poison derived from a shrub of the Strophanthus species. Some of the men also carried guns after firearms were introduced among the Mossi from the desert region and from the coast. Many carried rawhide shields."

Izard, M. (1966). The Mossi of the Upper Volta. The Political Development of a Sudanese People.

>>17933333
Seer

The king is lord of a great kingdom. People of three nations are subject to him, that is, Barbacins, Jalofos and Mandingas [Serer, Wolof and Mandinka respectively]; and he governs them very strictly through two governor-generals called by the blacks jagarefes. One of them governs the Barbacins during peace and war, and the other the Jalofos and Mandingas. [The concept of having two main territorial-military subordinates seems to be inspired by Mali, with its Faran-sura and Sanqara-zuma'a, as well as the idea of linking these with specific peoples. In fact, Faran-sura means more or less "governor over the dwellers of the desert"] These men have under then many governors who are appointed to districts all over the kingdom, where they reside in very beautiful towns; they are called jasodins and act as military commanders and governors of such places. The governors report to their superiors anything that occurs in their district, and the superiors pass it on to the king; and in this way, through this chain of command, the king learns about anything that happens in his kingdom and how many men are available for war. [Here there is a deviation from the Malian model, as all governors are under the twin military figures, while in Mali they had some under their authority and most outside of It. Scale is a factor, as Mali was much bigger and was built in various compromises with local elites, which most likely was not a factor in the same way in Saloum].

>>17932892
I don't see what the point of your post building is highly damaged nearing collapse

>>17932859
It was some small Igbo village they didn't really have any "great" kingdoms or anything

>>17933226
always remember the illustrations Europeans had professional cartographers make are extremely accurate to

>>17933413
you can see the same tents in photographs

>>17933343
In order to assemble these men, he has only to tell the governors-general what must be done, and they immediately pass it on post-haste to the governors. (Thus) there can be no mistake about the day on which each has to assemble with his men, or about the place of assembly. In this way, with very little trouble the
king assembles a large army, (made up) of cavalry as well as of infantry, for there are many horses in the land which come there by way of the Fulos and Moors [Interesting bit, and the Tarikh al-Sudan passage about the 1599 Battle of Djenne between Mali and Djenne and the Pashalik of Timbouktu suggests this was how it worked in Mali as well, although in a more complicated way due to its more complex political apparatus].
[...]
All these kings [he is generalising here and this refers to all polities of Senegambia, either Wolof, Serer or Mandinka], have alcaides or governors, and these are the officers who collect gifts from our people and who purchase the goods the kings require. They also have governor-generals, as has been stated, who are called jagarefes; governors of districts called jagodis; officers of the treasury called farbas; masters of the horse called bigeos; and chamberlains called buguinegues.

A brief treatise on the rivers of Guinea (1594) by André Álvares de Almada. P. 12

From chapter 1 "Which discusses the Jalofo blacks, who are the first (to be met in Guinea) and the nearest to us; and their customs and laws".

>>17933226
>Thats not the palace the actual palace was in ruins after the french assault you just posting the image from a site that mislabeled it

Fuck off retard, the Abomey palace was intact when the French took Abomey (btw there was no "French assault" on Abomey, Behanzin had fled the city after the Battle of Kana).
Here is a depiction of that same palace years before the war.

You're the one being dishonest here by claiming all the photographs of African huts are somehow "ruins" that replaced some Wakanda-tier buildings destroyed by wypipo.

>>17933230
>these huts in the background

We're supposed to believe the building on the foreground looked different?

>>17934145
Not him, but the Abomey palace was indeed destroyed during the 1892 war.
Not by a French assault, as you pointed out there was none, but rather by Behanzin himself who set his capital on fire when he understood he lost the war.

These pics
>>17933228
>>17933230
>>17933231
show the ruined palace after the fire.
Still, the original palace looked pretty much exactly like >>17933097
The only think the fire had really destroyed was the thatched roof.
The mud wall had been damaged to some extend but not so much, to the point the bas-reliefs on the walls were largely intact.

So you're wrong, but also kinda right since the original palace looked no different from the reconstruction posted there >>17933097

>>17934145
See look another misslabled drawing these trump your actual photos
>you see these drawings are true but these actual photos which don’t look like these drawings are false
>>17934212
Not really no we have actual photos of the ruins and they look nothing like what pedro posted even other drawings don’t

>>17934539
>o we have actual photos of the ruins and they look nothing like what pedro posted even other drawings don’t

Clown, the ruins are literally just the walls without the thatched roof

>>17934550
My guy your the one who posted your the one who posted that other other image your doing exactly what stated you'll do and your still doing it keep none of this has anything to do with military your just trying you dammdest to cope

>>17928186 (OP)
>Quilted armor was present in the Sudan since at least the 1st/2nd century BC or thereabouts. The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea references Ptolemy sending on an expedition against the Ethiopians 100 horsemen whose rider and horse were dressed in felt or quilted garments that left nothinjg but the eyes covered

>>17928186 (OP)
Map of African fortified settlements and forts called tatas

>>17931551
Africans did have complex civilizations (although it's debatable on how many of them surpassed Aztec or Mayan civilization) .

>>17928208
The Portuguese knew about the kingdom of Kongo in the 1500s and recognized their nobility who requested Christian missionaries, they had good relations and the Portuguese would meddle in their civil wars.

>>17928186 (OP)
>>no complex military organization
>>no complex or intricate military tactics
all of these existed
>>no siege weapons
this is true with small exceptions of adaptation of artillery weapons in the 19th century
>>no complex weaponry beyond stone age tools
this is completely false and in fact stone age tools were never used in SSA in recorded history. Always Iron weapons and later on gunpowder ones bought from europeans or berbers.
>>no actual armor or even anything resemble uniforms
several kingdoms had armor and uniforms, like the Sahelian kingdom or some of the forest kingdoms on the west african coast. Otherwise however true.
>>no cavalry
The sahel was principally based on cavalry.
>>no actual interesting military battles or history
There are cool ones in the sahel and west africa (Songhai wars, Fulani wars, Tijaniyya Tukulor jihad, Wassoulou expansion etc.)
>>literal stone age armies
nah
/thread

>>17928385
wtf

>>17928619
His post is ironic.