Thread 17940021

Buddhism has been debunked. Christian apologists have exposed that Buddhism, while denying the self, also presupposes a self. Who is the one suffering? Who is the one following the eightfold path? Who is the one reaching enlightenment? Also, Buddhism says desires are the cause of suffering and the goal is to eliminate desire. But that goal itself is a desire. The whole system is self defeating and Christianity remains the only logical religion.

https://youtu.be/QdHjMfcTBY0?si=l_KI5gAC8m8JHGiq

>>17940021 (OP)
>while denying the self
atman doesn't mean self

>>17940021 (OP)
There’s nothing logical about the trinity

>Read a Wikipedia summary
>Say the first thought that comes to mind
>Add some Pepes and Soijaks
>178k subs
No wonder the AI channels are getting popular when this shit is what they are competing with.

>>17940021 (OP)
I would say that it's absurd to think that a religion thousands of years old with hundreds of millions of followers could be easily debunked, but with quotes like picrel in the Bible (and all the internal contradictions that can at best be explained away by supposing some very elaborate and awkward implied interpretation) it doesn't seem so outside the realm of possibility. And if you say I've misunderstood the quote or whatever, then have you considered the possibility that you've misunderstood Buddhism? Like maybe Buddhism doesn't strictly deny a self, and maybe it doesn't mean "self" in quite the way you think it means it, and maybe Buddhism doesn't see all desires as a cause of suffering but only certain desires based in ignorance and delusion?

>>17940021 (OP)
The talking snake religion that fails every philosophical test and explains it's half-baked theology with "divine mystery bro" is now the authority on what is logical.

観自在菩薩 行深般若波羅蜜多時 照見五蘊皆空 度一切苦厄
While Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara was practicing the deep perfection of wisdom, he saw with illumination that the five aggregates were all empty, transcending all suffering.
舎利子 色不異空 空不異色 色即是空 空即是色 受想行識 亦復如是
"Sariputra, form is not different from emptiness, and emptiness is not different from form; form is therefore emptiness, and emptiness form. Such is true also of the other four aggregates of sensation, perception, mental activity, and consciousness.
舎利子 是諸法空相 不生不滅 不垢不浄 不増不減
Sariputra, this is the essential nature of emptiness of all phenomena, which are not created or destroyed, are neither impure nor pure, do not increase or decrease.
是故空中 無色無受想行識 無眼耳鼻舌身意 無色声香味触法 無眼界乃至無意識界 無無明亦無無明尽 乃至無老死亦無老死尽 無苦集滅道 無智亦無得
For this reason, in emptiness, there is no form, and no sensing or perceiving, or mental activity or consciousness. There is no eye organ, ear organ, nose organ, tongue organ, body organ or mind organ. There is no form sensed with the eye, or sound sensed with the ear, or scent sensed with the nose, or taste sensed with the tongue, or touch sensed with the body, or thought sensed with the mind. There is no world of the eye, or any other world up to the world of consciousness. There is no ignorance, the first of the twelve links of dependent origination, and no cessation of ignorance, or any of the other links of origination up to suffering and death, or cessation of suffering and death. There is no noble truth of suffering, or of causation of suffering, or of cessation of suffering, or of a path to cessation of suffering. There is no wisdom, and there is nothing to attain.
以無所得故 菩提薩埵依般若波羅蜜多 故心無罣礙 無罣礙故 無有恐怖 遠離一切顛倒夢想 究竟涅槃
It is because there is nothing to attain that the Bodhisattvas rely on the perfection of wisdom, and therefore are their hearts without obstruction, and without obstruction, they have no fear, and are far removed from all delusion and false thinking, eventually perfecting nirvana.

>>17940285
>form is therefore emptiness, and emptiness form.
>"War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength!"
>just virtually lobotomize yourself and you'll forget the rice harvest failed brother!

>>17940293
many of the mahayana sutras warn about this, saying that the doctrine of emptiness is too much for many to grasp, and that it causes them to be alarmed or afraid or indignant and to turn away from the mahayana, and that therefore the true doctrine of emptiness should not be taught as an introduction

emptiness is like the depths of the ocean, and first you have to wade into the shallows

this is upaya, the doctrine of skillful means, of adapting your way of teaching to the faculties and inclinations of the audience so that they will naturally be receptive to it

I am not skilled at this
but perhaps in the case of your failed rice harvest, if you simply pray to christ for deliverance he will help you?
there is really nothing to get hung up about

>>17940021 (OP)
>while denying the self, also presupposes a self
Im not a Buddhist but this is a wrong idea of what is meant by the claim that their is no self. The self conception through the image that is the ego is a false identity, its a delusion. You are not a fully coherent thing but a multiplicity; you have an array of desires pushing and driving your body and at any given moment you identify with the strongest desire and this identification takes place primarily through language. One of the best ways to explain this is in Nietzche's Beyond Good and Evil in his proto conception of the subconscious.

>"A thought comes when 'it' wants, and not when 'I' want. It is, therefore, a falsification of the facts to say that the subject 'I' is the condition of the predicate 'think' It thinks: but to say the 'it is just that famous old 'I' - well that is just an assumption or opinion, to put it mildly, and by no means an "immediate certainty.' In fact, there is already too much packed into the 'it thinks': even the 'it' contains an interpretation of the process, and does not belong to the process itself. People are following grammatical habits here in drawing conclusions, reasoning that thinking is an activity, behind every activity something is active, therefore-"

>>17940293
>>form is therefore emptiness, and emptiness form.
Yeah, name a platonic shape that isn't mostly just emptiness, except you can't since they are all made of a bit of small outlines with a whole bunch of empty space in between.

>>17940021 (OP)
Buddhism is wrong because it's a heretical form of Hinduism

>>17940059
100% TRVE, but OP's question is still legit for me because I also just read wiki summary

how are those arguments lol? it's just shows your ignorance

meanwhile how does worshiping some random rabbi 2000 years ago help you lmao? why is child sacrifice so pleasing to the holy creator jew god? why does he need a sacrifice unto himself in the first place like he has compulsions and limitations?

>>17940021 (OP)
the desire including all desires are gone when you reach the goal. This somehow eludes the minds of the greatest christian apologists.

>jesus eliminated sin! rejoice!
>but there's still sin everywhere
>uhh.. it happens when you die or when he comes back. stop asking questions and gaslight yourself

>>17940021 (OP)
>logical religion

>>17940082
Dude you are so wrong.
> Buddhism is about giving up every desire.
>It was monastics religion

Namo Amitabha Buddha

>it's been deb000000nked
Oh, tell that to the half a billion adherents.
>but Christianity has two billion
Competing factions that largely hate each other. Like the "funniest joke"


I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. I immediately ran over and said "Stop! Don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
"Like what?"
"Well ... are you religious or atheist?"
"Religious."
"Me too! Are you Christian or Jewish?"
"Christian."
"Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
"Protestant."
"Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
"Baptist."
"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
"Baptist Church of God."
"Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God."
"Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915!"
To which I said, "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.

>>17940758
I bet that joke slays the whole room when you recite it verbatim at the parties that nobody has ever once invited you to

>>17940872
>social shaming and social coercion

golem brained

>>17940872
Sounds like projection. Do you not get invited to parties? It's okay you can tell us we will keep your secret.
>never hearing of this ancient joke
>not understanding the point of the copypasta portion of the post
For shame.

>>17940021 (OP)
>self defeating
This is why i don't follow it. It's entropic to the body of the egregor. I saw another post about it in that yin yang thread, where someone admitted that its natural tendency is to die out. When you see darkness overcoming the light ahead, you might want to repent away from such oblivion. I follow the way, the truth, and the life, not oblivion.

>>17940021 (OP)
>Who is the one suffering? Who is the one following the eightfold path? Who is the one reaching enlightenment?
Not a permanent, independent self.
>Also, Buddhism says desires are the cause of suffering and the goal is to eliminate desire. But that goal itself is a desire.
The push for liberation isn't just another craving. It's a focused intention born from insight.

>>17940936
>entropic
Entropic isnt really the right word. Its more like a stagnation, or solidification. A paralysis or stone like idleness.

>>17940937
>independent self
I and the father are one.

>insight
Shed your circumference, and emerge.
Open your eyes and look outside yourself.
Love your neighbor as much as you love your insight .

Take that love inside you, and share it with others, and also accept it from others.

>>17940021 (OP)
I don't really like either desu. Both very death-culty, If you forced me to pick, I'd go with the non-jewish one

>>17940947
>I and the father are one.
Their is no such thing as oneness, this is a perversion

>>17941001
Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

If you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

Pick one.

>jak memes about religion
How comically pathetic. I feel embarrassed just looking at this.

>>17940303
>this is upaya, the doctrine of [lying to the goyim]
That's great, but we are civilised adults here. This shit isn't going to fly.

Ha, take that, Buddha

>>17940937
If something is not permanent then it IS not.

>>17940596
>why would I lift a heavy weight that makes me tired, if my goal is to get stronger.

>>17940021 (OP)
The game Buddhists play when you prove them wrong is to suddenly pretend that's not what they believe, so that it's impossible to prove them wrong. Like pretending they aren't a death cult that seeks self-annihilation, while also saying Nirvana is escaping the wheel of reincarnation and worshipping the corpses of monks that intentionally starved themselves to death. I wonder if they got this kind of taqiyya from the Buddha himself or made it up along the way.

>>17943547
>taqiyya
Taqiyya is the opposite of Buddhism, because it's all about denying truth in order to save yourself.
Buddhism is about ignoring reality in order to kill yourself.

>>17943547
>>17943562
Suicide is not recommended in Buddhism. It is seen as a temporary solution to a permanent problem. Likely to result in a bad rebirth due to your bad state of mind at the time of death. So not nihilism at all.

Please try to at least understand the tenets of a world religion before slandering it. ;^)

>>17943670
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu

>>17943547
I don’t understand Buddhism, therefore it is wrong.

>>17940021 (OP)
>Buddhism has been debunked
It may be but not by mentally retarded people, ie christcucks.
>Christian apologists have exposed
Christcuck have never done such thing
>that Buddhism, while denying the self, also presupposes a self.
That's not what the noself doctrine claims, you're too dumb and too dishonest to not strawman your opponent because it proves you wrong.
>But that goal itself is a desire. The whole system is self defeating and Christianity remains the only logical religion.
Non sequitur upon non sequitur.
Your own Bible admits that your God hates what is good and loves what is degenerate btw.

>>17943704
this is the new method of Esoteric Buddhism and zen buddhism so it not surprise. I don't see any shit practice in theravada maybe in estoric buddhism but mahayana and theravada?

>>17943740
Seething

>>17943860
>gets exposed as a dishonest attempt at critique
>resorts to ad hominem just like in the shamelessly deceitful video he linked
Are you the retard that made that video? You act exactly like him but again you christcucks are bots with the same Jewish hive mind.

>>17940872
tits or gtfo

>>17940037
>All is one
So deep :)))))
>These three are one
No it can't be >:|||||

Fake religions fighting

>>17943740
That's not what the pic means, learn English before you post.

emptiness seems to be the biggest filter for westoids, the concept is incompatible with our way of thinking or something

>>17943886
Mad

My family are Buddhist and one thing I realised when reading scholarly books on Buddhism is that Buddhism is firmly planted within the Brahmanism intellectual framework
That's why the no self doctrine was unsatisfying to me, because I don't share the same definitions and presuppositions as the Buddha did
I personally don't see the no self doctrine as being that important though
For me the most important point which I cannot accept is its inability to work with cosmological arguments which I'm convinced by