Thread 17991115

I'm not saying I don't think he existed—it would be pretty extraordinary for Christianity to have sprung up so soon after his supposed lifetime if he hadn't been a real spiritual teacher of some sort. But it seems like the stuff in the New Testament would've been commented on during his lifetime. "There's this Yeshua guy who's gaining a following. Allegedly, he can perform miracles. Oh, he just got crucified and now people are sad." I'm asking as a know-nothing retard: is it weird that there's nothing like that, or is it to be expected?

>>17991115 (OP)
There are multiple prophets and preachers wandering around in every generations, and 99% are forgotten, lost. Christianity didnt risen to relevancy enough to be worthy of being recorder before Nero's time

>>17991115 (OP)
It isn't necessarily the fact that there are no contemporary sources that makes things weird, it's the fact that not even any of the authentic Pauline epistles mention ANY details from Jesus' life, only positing him as some being one can get revelations from.
Other early sources such as 1 Clement ALSO doesn't say anything about Jesus' earthly ministry, very strange.

>>17991176
mention ANY details from Jesus' life
Let me rephrase this: It's not clear at all that what is being refered to are events that take place on earth, the Crucifixion is of course mentioned, but nothing about Pilate or the Jews/Pharisees. The lords supper is another example, where he claims that Jesus revealed to him in a vision what happened before he was betrayed, namely 1 Corinthians 11:23-28, why did Jesus show him the lord's supper in a vision specifically? Surely this is information he could have gotten from the disciples aswell? Yet no mention of it.

>>17991115 (OP)
Sacred Heart of Jesus
I trust in you

>>17991115 (OP)
he was just a random nutcase

>>17991176
>>17991189
If we are to assume the whole canon of the Bible to be divinely written by the Holy Spirit, then it works as a whole and no reiteration is required, because it was always intended to be compiled together. The reader, that being you and I, already know the story, and other than a few allusions to back up other points that go beyond Jesus's earthly ministry, it's not necessary to have a word-for-word recounting.

>>17991273
Yet later epistles clearly do reiterate a lot of material from the supposed earthly ministry of Jesus as per the gospels.
2nd Peter in particular seems weird here, almost suggesting some christians didn't believe the Gospels were historical.
>because it was always intended to be compiled together
Which canon are you talking about here?

>>17991305
The canon dictated by the church when it was first compiled, both OT and NT. When the epistles were written, there was no clear canon, but the intent wasn't reiteration in redundancy, but to focus on other aspects like the formation of the church and its practices, amongst other things. The information wasn't widely accessed as it was from the first compiling, but it doesn't mean there was silence regarding Jesus's ministry, just different facets being addressed for the future coming canon.

>>17991176
>not even any of the authentic Pauline epistles mention ANY details from Jesus' life
That's because IMO Jesus existed, was a real preacher, died, then Paul used him as an instrument to write his own fanfic.

>>17991189
The verb in 1 Cor 11:23 isn't "betrayed", btw, but a very neutral "delivered up/over" (paradidōmi) that's often translated negatively to harmonize it with gospel accounts.
Young's Literal Translation:
>For I -- I received from the Lord that which also I did deliver to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was delivered up, took bread [...]
In other authentic letters of Paul like Romans, God sometimes does the paradidōmi (e.g. "God delivered them unto their passions"). Paul never mentions an explicit betrayal nor does he seem to know the name of Judas or any tradition related to him.

>>17991115 (OP)
we dont have records of some Roman emperors
most famously Caligula was so hated they tried to wipe out his memory, so yeah some middle eastern preacher isnt going to be written about

>>17991400
What are the odds of someone doing that though, and not only doing that but being able to persuade a bunch of other people to agree with him when there's a dispute between him and the people who supposedly knew Jesus personally? And why would Paul emphasize that he didn't get his ideas from the other apostles as a point in his favor rather than against it? I guess it's possible, but it all seems more natural under the assumption that there was no historical Jesus, so all the first apostles were getting their ideas from revelation like Paul.

>>17991591
There's no need to call me retarded when I already confessed my retardation.

I think that's to be expected for the time this happened in. Literacy was far less common, everything had to be copied by hand, and plenty of documents have been lost throughout history. There probably were some documents about Jesus made during his life that just haven't survived. Many of Aristotle's works, for example, are lost. The fact that we have four different works detailing Jesus's life is actually pretty impressive.

>>17991488
>everyone is jerusalem simply forgot the zombie uprising of 33AD bro
>all those old testament saints maybe ones as popular as Isaiah or Joshua living a second life was just normal and not documented

>>17991115 (OP)
First of all, there are, mind you they aren't very thorough, outside of the bible. But no, it's not strange at all that a first century Jewish vagrant is undocumented. Sources from the time Period are extremely scant and most people who we know about from that time only come from a few sources talking about them.

>>17991477
Man, it really is unfortunate that we don't have more information about christianity before the destruction of the temple. One can only hope such evidence is brought to light, but I doubt it.

>>17991273
Don't the synoptic Gospels all cover similar ground with some variation and extra content? Why would the Holy spirit inspire the Gospel of Mark if almost everything in it would be written in two other books?

>>17991115 (OP)
Jesus was a pedophile schizo with a God complex.
>Every one of Jesus’ apostles besides Peter was underage (neaniskos is the Greek word used)
>When a woman questions why he hangs out with kids he says “don’t scandalize me”
>Tells these boys he will make them “fishers of men”
>Goes into upper rooms and washes their feet while naked
>Tells them to “eat his flesh and drink his haima” (if you think this means “blood” here, see Ezekiel 23:20)
>Is arrested in a public park at 4am with a naked boy (see Mark 14:51-52)
>When the cops show up he says “why do you come for me with swords and clubs like I’m some kind of leistes”
>The word leistes, which gets translated as “thief” is actually “pirate” and was used in contemporary texts (many examples such as Lucian’s Alexander) to refer to sex traffickers
>Sex trafficking was a big problem in the Mediterranean and one of the big things the Romans did was crack down on the pedo pirates. Julius Caesar himself was kidnapped by them as a kid and afterwards had them all crucified
>Jesus Christ was in fact crucified between two other leistes
There's a reason Jesus's "Most Beloved Disciple" is always depicted as a beardless boy whereas the rest of his followers had beards. Dude liked em young.

>>17992348
The fact itself that the tale they tell is awfully similar despite being written separately by different people with no interaction is work of the Holy Spirit

>>17991273
>If we are to assume the whole canon of the Bible to be divinely written by the Holy Spirit
We aren't going to assume this.
>>17992789
No, it's because they're adding and subtractive from each others writings.

>>17991115 (OP)
He was probably a secret cult leader who got retconned by his devoted followers into a popular religious leader

>>17991115 (OP)
There weren't many who would comment on something like this until it was too late.
>taught new teachings
Not uncommon
>implied he's the messiah
Not uncommon
>performed miracles
Not a daily occurence but not uncommon either
>got crucified
Not uncommon
>rose from the dead
Quite uncommon. This is the point at which authorities would definitely have noted that. And they did, but mostly by noting that there is a group of people claiming that their leader rose from the dead. Romans didn't really have means to verify it and Jews didn't have any motivation to do so.

For the most part you would only expect his followers to make some records. Which they did, that's what the epistles are and that's what the gospels are (even if they were written down only later).

>>17991676
The dunning kruger effect of people stupid enough to take everything literally thinking they are smarter than everyone else is hilarious

>>17992799
>We aren't going to assume this