Thread 18066936

It's crazy to me that the core thing with Christianity is following God and the things he commands, yet I see no clear list or acts to follow, and everything is talked about in abstract terms and when you try to focus on them people deflect, even priests.
>Its in the bible read the bible
You can't make a summary, a chart or a list of the core things? What's the lesson in job? What's the deal with the sermon mountain?
What is sinning against the holy spirit?
Are you saved by works, faith, or both?

I sometimes feel Christianity holds by people not making enough questions.

How many sins are there?

>>18066936 (OP)
> no clear list
Fucking read Romans 1:29-31 or Galatians 5:19-21. It's a list, right there. And another list just to be extra sure.
> lesson in Job
The point is you are a faggy creation and God isn't obligated to explain his cosmic-level plays to your NPC brain. It's about trust.
> sermon on the mount
Literally Jesus listing how to live. "Blessed are the..." How much more spoonfed do you need?
> sin against the holy spirit
Rejecting God's forgiveness permanently. Final answer.
> saved by works or faith
Ephesians 2:8-9. Saved by faith. Works are the RESULT, not the price. This is Sunday school shit.

>>18066947
Here is a quote about works.

>>18066947
> Romans 1:29-31
Connect the dots. Think, anon, think!

>>18066936 (OP)
>You can't make a summary, a chart or a list of the core things?
Expect they did. Follow the moral and Noahide laws.
>What's the lesson in job?
God can give and takes away, so be thankful for what you have.
>What is sinning against the holy spirit?
The bible isn't explicit about this. But given other passages about the relationship between the Holy Spirit and men it would seem that insulting the spirit responsible for one's regeneration results in total rejection by said spirit.
>Are you saved by works, faith, or both?
Considering that even works come from God (Phil 2:13), one's salvation ultimately rests on God's mercy.

>>18066947
With adultery alone for example I can't see people agreeing with what it means. Its the case of those words changing meaning through time.

Does it mean cheating on your wife? Does it mean having sexual relations outside marriage? Doing anything sexual at all? Is masturbation adultery?

What about sexual games with your wife, that is considered not glorifying God, is it a sin?
>>18066955>>You can't make a summary, a chart or a list of the core things?
>God can give and takes away, so be thankful for what you have.
Weird, because I've seen people saying the lesson is that God has a bigger vision than you and shouldn't question his ways, or that bad things don't comes from God but there are also other forces in place (Satan) and bad things come from them
>The bible isn't explicit about this.
And don't you think, maybe, this tiny tiny, small detail should have been clear? Again, is it literally insulting the third person, is it an attitude to things holy, is it literally insulting jesus after you saw him do magic or what is it?
>Considering that even works come from God (Phil 2:13), one's salvation ultimately rests on God's mercy.
Are you catholic, protestant or Orthodox
This distinction alone baffles me, because it implies that if one is right, the other two aren't saved.

>>18066963
> https://biblehub.com/greek/3430.htm
It's not that hard. Adultery (νοχεία) in the original Greek meant banging someone else's wife, cucking another man. It's a spiritual crime against the husband. Sexual games with your wife aren't even in the same category.

Apparently, extramarital sex with slaves and prostitutes also do not count? Weird. Perhaps, it's a different sin?

>>18066974
>Perhaps, it's a different sin?
Every time I ask on /his/ I get this treatment of holier than thou attitude that instead of answering the question, an anon writes like a basedjak.

What are those sins,that's what I'm asking. Half of the nohadic laws for example are so abstract that it's the same as saying nothing.

>>18066980
Read the 10 commandments? No murder, no stealing, no lying in court, no banging your neighbor's wife, and so on. Is it too abstract for you?

>>18066963
>Weird, because I've seen people saying the lesson is that God has a bigger vision than you and shouldn't question his ways, or that bad things don't comes from God but there are also other forces in place (Satan) and bad things come from them
I won't say I would disagree. Keep in mind, Job was never told about about the dialogue between God and Satan. God doesn't owe anyone an explanation, yet we (the audience of the book) are allowed understand a glimpse behind the some of the causality of the universe which isn't often told during the event that happen to us today which should make us humble like how God reminded Job.
>And don't you think, maybe, this tiny tiny, small detail should have been clear?
It is clear-don't insult the Holy Spirit/equate the Holy Spirit with a devil or face the consequences,
>Are you catholic, protestant or Orthodox
I'm a child of God. The better question to ask 'if each one of these sects claim to follow the apostles which one resemble them the most starting at year 0?' (rather than looking at church in the present how a historian would). Put their claims to the test of history. May God bless your endeavors.

>>18066983
It is because then comes Jesus Christ and says that anger is the same as murder and looking at another woman is the same as adultery.
>>18066985
>God doesn't owe anyone an explanation
God doesn't owe an explanation for suffering and pain?
>Don't insult the holly spirit
That still isn't clear (which maybe it's a feature, because I wouldn't want to consciously, willingly insult the holy spirit)
But same as job, I've seen many explanations and it's not clear.
>I'm a child of God
Whatever that means.

My thing with Christianity is that everyone on the faith acts as if it was all clear and simple yet they disagree among each other(not counting Satan and satanists mudding the waters) and then we all get judged to condemnation.

But at the same time a father doesn't give a list and everything to his son and isn't constantly babysitting him and the whole deal is for the son to learn on his own, so I don't know.

>>18066993
Don't do that please

>>18066936 (OP)
>You can't make a summary, a chart or a list of the core things?
https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

>>18067011
The pope recently came on and said that borders and racism is a nono and that we have to import a billion niggers. I don't know how trustworthy the Vatican is. Will check it out anyways.

>>18067023
Christ was the first anti-racist.
Read the bible. There is nor Jew, nor Greek.

Not saying we need to import le billion niggers, but c'mon.

>>18066947
>emulations
God hates free video games.
>variance
Remember people, God demands you to double down if you're wrong. God would send you to hell if you change your mind.
>and such like
What are these other such likes?
>debate
Debates are now banned.
>Backbiters
You heard God people, no more biting during sex.
>inventors of evil things
What are evil things? What makes things evil?
>without natural affection
Why couldn't God just not make sociopaths?

>>18066951
James 2:17 Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

>>18067023
>recently
kek that goes back all the way
almost as if it was written by a foreign race wanting you to stop being racist so they can gain access to your resources, huh?

>>18066936 (OP)
>It's crazy to me that the core thing with Christianity is following God and the things he commands, yet I see no clear list or acts to follow,
The Bible has been the same and continues to be the same.

>everything is talked about in abstract terms and when you try to focus on them people deflect, even priests.
The answers to these questions are invariably in the Bible, you just have to find them. If you ignore the Bible and only look at what various people are saying, of course you'll be confused. Because you brought it on yourself due to giving too much value to the mere opinions of other people.
>I sometimes feel Christianity holds by people not making enough questions.
The best answers all point back to what is said in the Bible, so studying that will lead to consistent answers regardless of what you do.

>>18066963
>Does it mean cheating on your wife?
Whatever you're asking about, just look at what the Bible defines. For adultery, here are two:

"Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery."
(Luke 16:18)

"But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband!"
(Ezekiel 16:32)

This of course is not an exhaustive list of verses which all say the same thing on this issue.

>With adultery alone for example I can't see people agreeing with what it means
Why does it matter for people to agree? Just go with what it says in the Bible if you want the biblical view. It doesn't matter one bit if some liar disagrees with what the Bible says, it just means they're wrong.

Why do you let one intentionally dishonest guy who is telling you obvious lies and spouting falsehoods throw you off this badly?

Find what the Bible says first, then you'll know who is right based on that. I think you already know this and maybe you just want to be convinced by the liar that all opinions are equal, but I'm saying it anyway. The fact that not everyone agrees on something does not somehow imply that there is no truth. That argument is laughable and really worthy of ridicule. It's pathetic if you think it will work here.

>>18066936 (OP)
>the core thing with Christianity is following God and the things he commands
>yet I see no clear list or acts to follow
There are plenty around the NT, but the idea is that you get a priest or a spiritual father to give you specific advice on the things you specifically struggle with. It's not self-administered, it's practiced in communion - in the Church.
>You can't make a summary, a chart or a list of the core things?
Like the most important commandment? Or the ten commandments? Or the canons?
> What's the lesson in job?
There are many, but the basic one is to remain faithful and not demand (or even make up) answers to things you may never understand.
>What's the deal with the sermon mountain?
It's a big deal.
>What is sinning against the holy spirit?
Rejecting God's presence and healing. The Pharisees see God's healing and think it's from the devil. A person cannot be healed if they confuse the only remedy (God) with the sickness itself (evil).
>Are you saved by works, faith, or both?
Why do you care? Have both.
>How many sins are there?
Again, why do you care? Will it make a difference to you if there is 8,500 or 10^850?
It's like a patient asking a doctor how many diseases there are. Probably plenty. Better focus on the ones you got right now.

>>18066936 (OP)
Have you ever heard of systematic theology? Or are you just (You) farming?

https://www.waynegrudem.com/category/audio/systematic-theology

>>18068153
>The bible has been the same and continues to be the same
No? Bible comes from βιβλία books and it is a compilation of books, which many Christian denominations don't agree on, and on the same bible it's said there is oral tradition and things Christ did that aren't written in the tests and that God talks outside the bible too.
>The answers to these questions are invariably in the Bible, you just have to find them. If you ignore the Bible and only look at what various people are saying, of course you'll be confused. Because you brought it on yourself due to giving too much value to the mere opinions of other people.
That is also and abstract, I'm starting to think you are trolling.
>The best answers all point back to what is said in the Bible, so studying that will lead to consistent answers regardless of what you do.
I see what it is said but people get multiple interpretations, what it is supposed to be literal, what are parables instead, which translation, it is not easy and frankly it bothers me a little how some of you pretend as if God is easy to understand and can be contained into a book.

>>18068158
So adultery only means to not cheat and respect your wife and matrimony?
That makes more sense than a lonely guy fapping.

>>18066955
Have fun burning.

>>18068171
> the idea is that you get a priest or a spiritual father to give you specific advice on the things you specifically struggle with. It's not self-administered, it's practiced in communion - in the Church.
The only priests I see are weak boomers that constantly say that being rich is bad and that you have to import a billion niggers. I've went to church many times now and I notice that despite the bible being very big, they only end up reading the same couple of verses
>Like the most important commandment? Or the ten commandments? Or the canons?
The things that are sins, the things that shouldn't be doing, because it's not the same adultery as on betraying your wife vs touching yourself at night
>There are many, but the basic one is to remain faithful and not demand (or even make up) answers to things you may never understand.
I don't like being limited. I want to trust God but I don't want to trust God and I hate him and I love him and I'm so fucking retarded. I'm so tired.
>>What's the deal with the sermon mountain?
>It's a big deal.
Most of the times I've seen it being used to be a pussy and to never ever ever rebel, no matter what injustices are you seeing (example, Europe right now being invaded)
>Rejecting God's presence and healing. The Pharisees see God's healing and think it's from the devil.
I don't want to do that. Yet again I've never felt or seen the holy spirit (not that I know of). Maybe it's for the better if I'm so retarded and not ready. I really don't want to fuck with that.
>Why do you care? Have both.
I care about being eternally tortured or disappearing forever or being saved and seeing people I love getting lost forever. Each of those scenarios are eldritchrly horrible.
>>How many sins are there?
>Again, why do you care? Will it make a difference to you if there is 8,500 or 10^850?
Aren't we supposed to not sin? How are we supposed to not sin if we don't know what is son and what isn't?

>>18068185
No, I've never hear of systematic theology.

>>18068320
>Have fun burning.
Fuck off. Every single fucking thread, have your (you) and go away.

>>18068321
I'll address these first, as they go to the heart of how Christianity works:
>How are we supposed to not sin if we don't know what is son and what isn't?
By discernment. You start with the basics, the 10 commandments. You work your way through your sins, vices, passions etc. and once you eliminate enough, you start discerning pretty reliably. This tacit knowledge is how you are transformed, meaning you no longer need something like ...
>[....lists of] The things that are sins
Do you mean we'd also have to keep updating the list every time new technology is introduced or new fapping methods invented? Then expand the lists for the cross-overs in between the items that may or may not arise? This is naturally one of the least optimal ways to go about healing. Life isn't summarizable into lists. There is no list of things one must do to have a happy marriage, no list of things to do to raise a child well, list of things to do in order not to ever get sick... there are frequent tips and general guidelines, but in the end there is no algorithm, method and exhaustive list. There is acquired discernment.

>The only priests I see are weak boomers that constantly say that being rich is bad and that you have to import a billion niggers.
Work with what you got.
>I've went to church many times now and I notice that despite the bible being very big, they only end up reading the same couple of verses
Must be the verses their congregation still struggles with.
>I want to trust God but I don't want to trust God
I understand you too much.
>Most of the times I've seen [the Sermon on the Mount] being used to be a pussy
Maybe. I've seen it used to perfect ascetic and mystical practices - blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
>>Why do you care? Have both.
>I care about being eternally tortured or...
That is valid, but knowing the technicalities of how God does what God does won't help you. Your task is faith and action both.

>>18068331
I mean, I'm at least going to church every week, before I didn't that often. And taking communion. But they say taking the bread without confession and with any unrepented sin is bad for you. (I'm catholic). Which I don't get because I thought Jesus was supposed to be the soap that cleans us and not the contrary where we are dirt that corrupt everything pure. I also don't know why having a boomer pastor saying "you are forgiven" works. Like, I could lie and make shit up.

I also do all stuff, like trying to help my parents more or for example the other day some guys in class where picking on a guy behind his back and told them to not do that, to be cool. Small stuff like that. I don't want to say that that it's giving me entry into heaven, I know it is not something you can buy, but I guess I want some reassurance. I don't want to go to hell just because I touch myself.

>>18068322
You could either listen to the audios or take a look at his outlines for a text summary.

He also has a series on Christian Ethics which my wife and I are listening through now. It might be more directly applicable to the OP.
https://www.waynegrudem.com/category/audio/christian-ethics

God bless.

>>18068387
Other people have covered systematic theology too. Just fyi

is systematic theology supposed to be how god 'works'? I like big books and it's on sale.

>>18068402
No. It's sorting theology by subject, systematically.

>>18068306
>on the same bible it's said there is oral tradition and things Christ did that aren't written in the tests and that God talks outside the bible too.
The Bible talks about the traditions of the Pharisees as an example of manmade oral traditions. It doesn't reflect kindly on those traditions. Christ even said that the Pharisees were "making the word of God of none effect" through "their traditions," in essence placing their own traditions higher than Scripture.

Jesus Christ said in Matthew 24:35, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." This remains true today. We have not lost even a single word that God inspired, between then and now.

In 2 Peter 1:20-21, it also says,
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

And in Isaiah 55:10-11 the Bible says:
"For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

Psalm 119:160 also says, "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."

When it says "every one" in the above verse, it literally means every single one.

>which many Christian denominations don't agree on,
Back again to the point about relying on people instead of God. You can't let people throw you off like that. You will guarantee that you NEVER arrive at the truth, if you hesitate every single time there is disagreement among people.
>multiple interpretations
Again see 2 Peter 1:20. "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."