Thread 18133792

Why does it seem that nobody, including self-proclaimed fascists, care about fascist political theory? You never see people talk about the Doctrine or Manifesto of Fascism

>>18133792 (OP)
Because fascism is the natural order of human civilization

>>18133792 (OP)
Examining fascism ends leftist politics in one stroke.

So it doesn’t happen

>>18133809
The average Marxist-Leninist leftist unknowingly subscribes almost completely to an old-school-style Italian fascist doctrine just with different words.

Worship of the nation and national leadership via a supreme authority which prioritises the state above all else and uses dictatorial measures to protect such state, which also ensues total state control over institutions infrastructure and the key sectors of the economy while still tolerating and participating in a market system. Funny that woke libs, trotskyists and irrelevant Bordigists seem to be the only groups in current leftism to notice this.

>>18133792 (OP)
Because it's a vibes based "ideology" for people who value aesthetics over policy.

>>18133944
>I painted you as a basedjack therefore I win

>>18133944
>Fascism doesnt do policy.

What do people mean by this?

fascists and right wingers in general are usually anti intellectual retards
the left has marx who writes tomes on economic theory.
who does the right have? some nobody who no one ever read

>>18133980
>who does the right have? some nobody who no one ever read

Gentili, Sombart, Sorel etc etc

>>18133980
Fascists just used Keynesianism.

>>18133982
the problem with right wingers is they think fascism is about being trad, when the fascists where futurists that wanted to burn everything to the ground and start a new order

another thing is fascism has no idea about economics, they just think they are going to autarky and invade other countries. so facists attack capitalism from a moral standpoint not a economic one. they get mad at rootless cosmopolitanism and corporations destroying the culture to make a buck

Why don't Christians try to understand Satan and Satanism when they preach against it so much?'
Fascism is the political equivalent of Satanism.

>>18133980
>the left has marx who writes tomes on economic theory.
They weren't that deep.

>>18133980
>DOOD WE ARE SUPER SMART GENIUS INTELLECTUALS AND HECKIN FASCISTS ARE STOOOPID
The left are pseudo-intellectual. They will read every volume of Das Kapital or Frantz Fanon or whatever is fashionable in their circle, they will then virtue signal how brilliant they think it is and how they agree with all of it, questioning literally none of it.

You see it on reddit. Take for example the correlation between crime and poverty. They basically refuse to discuss it at all, because the very act of bringing it up outs you as not part of their in-group. Even if you speak in a very plain matter of fact way. They put a lot of effort into their reading, study, rhetoric and debates, but the aim is not intellectual, the aim is to justify their lifestyle and predatory actions like demanding other people pay for their sex reassignment surgery. Right or wrong, doesn't actually matter, and of course, why would it, but before you can proudly proclaim yourself "intellectual" you have to care what the truth is. Genuinely intelligent people don't have to go around repeating "I AM VERY SMART" anyway.

>>18133792 (OP)
Because most modern fascists and Nazis are LARPers with no political ideology above hating browns or whatever

>>18134016
>>DOOD WE ARE SUPER SMART GENIUS INTELLECTUALS AND HECKIN FASCISTS ARE STOOOPID


Fascists burn books, commies write them.

Simple as

>>18134025
Fascists didn't burn any books. National socialists did. To claim that German nationalists wrote no books is also wrong.

>>18134032
>fascists didnt burn books, fascists did

Fucking hell m8, you are retarded, well you are a fascist after all

>>18134025
Fascists build countries. Commies tear them down and starve to death

>>18134035
>everyone is a fascist, therefore I smart

>>18134036
every fascist country has been an absolute failure that just reverts back to capitalism or gets btfo in war

>>18134025
>>18134032
They didn't burn anything of intellectual value.

>>18134035
Is there no difference?

>know your enemy
>except fascists
>the greatest enemy
>you don't need to don't know anything about them
if you want to know something about them you are a fascist
>i know this because i know what a fascist is

>>18133998
>the problem with right wingers is they think fascism is about being trad, when the fascists where futurists that wanted to burn everything to the ground and start a new order
It's actually because there are many different flavors of right wing just like how there are many different flavors of left wing. If you examine modern america, we got ethnonationalists vs christian nationalists vs boomer neocons vs moderates vs neoreactionary tech feudalists (I am this flavor)
>another thing is fascism has no idea about economics, they just think they are going to autarky and invade other countries. so facists attack capitalism from a moral standpoint not a economic one.
Literally false lmao, just as many "leftist" regimes go with autarky (inb4 not reall gommunism) auturky is more out of necessity
>they get mad at rootless cosmopolitanism and corporations destroying the culture to make a buck
I am pro rootless cosmopolitanism but that is more out of pragmatism. If a single monolithically powerful entity like the US gets taken over by leftists then they can forcibly invade anyone they want and force everyone under their boot (basically the overlap between what neocons want and what trotskyites want) so internationalism and a multipolar world are better

>>18133980
>the left has marx who writes tomes on economic theory
Except Marx is not an economist, and has zero academic authority or experience in the field. His contribution to economics is like saying some random hippie telling people medicine is made up and to just use healing crystals and essential oils is a legitimate medical researcher. (next you're probably gonna rant about how economics is a made up discipline funded by the Koch brothers in a complete 180 to what you just said)

>>18134016
This, ironically leftists are more similar to the religious fundamentalists they hate with the way they interact with their ideology
>heh you cant argue with me unless you read all of Marx
>you read Marx and are quoting the parts that are wrong or things that he said that are the direct opposite of what leftists are doing? Heh well you see you were just reading it wrong clearly he totally meant something completely different than what he wrote (aka bible was being allegorical about the earth being 5000 years old)

>>18134025
Remind me again, which side is the one refusing any dialogue, debate, or interaction and demanding the other side gets censored everywhere?

>>18134049
The struggles of transfolx aren't of "intellectual value"?

>>18134067
>there are many different flavors of right wing just like how there are many different flavors of left wing.

>>18134025
Some books should be burned

>>18133792 (OP)
fascism is the way

>>18133980
But Fascism was an intellectualist art movement born from the Orthodox-Reformist split in Marxism breaking in Italy during the first world war. Nothing about it is "right-wing" and that's a good thing

>>18133973
No structured ideological plan, it's essentially the state strongmanning the country to get what its electorate/itself deems "cool" or "good".

>>18134016
>tries to argue that right wingers are intelligent
>cites as example the correlation between crime and poverty (one of the most empirically pro-left wing academic example you could have used)
>picrel is a picture of nazis' iq
lmfao topkek seriously ?

>>18134083
You generally have to understand something well in order to debate and engage in it. That's why people tell you to read marx when you say that he was wrong because "le evil ussr gommunism"

>>18134067
>can't differentiate between political economy and regular economy
lol

>>18134089
I mean yeah. Leftists believe a lot in the same things but there's definitely more thought left-leaning political theory than right leaning one.

Fascism is action, fuck theory lmfao

>>18133792 (OP)
Because Fascists lost the practical battle to justify their ideological system. If they had won, we would talk about it more.

Also just doesn't work

>>18135081
>no arguments, just ragebait
>fails to address any of my points
yep, typical leftcommie. enjoy knowing you will never be politically relevant

>>18133792 (OP)
Fascism is in Mussolini’s words “merger of corporations with the government.” The modern west is Fascist.

>>18135964
For the billionth time: he never said that!

>>18133973
Because fascists have compromised on things, antifascists have taken that to mean that they don't believe in anything and will do just about anything for power.
The same does not apply for the antifascists ideology though.

>>18135983
Prove that he never said it.

>>18136117
Presumption of innocence.

>>18135964
He didn't say that and fascist corporations meant mixed employee-employer unions. Something that has absolutely no power in the west

>>18133792 (OP)
I have been reading Schmitt and he is a force to be reckoned with. Totally deconstructs central ideas and presumptions of liberalism, strips the emperor bare of his clothes.

This is a professionally retarded thread btw

>>18135081
No structured ideological plan. Can you explain that?

Both communists and capitalists vascilitate between options on their way to an end goal. Saying fascists don't have plans they stick to while those guys do is ahistorical

Fascists were literally just socialists who wanted to focus more on the nation rather than class.

It really doesn't get any easier than that.

>>18136250
>not putting class above all

This makes the middle class comfortable commie seethe
Facism was the socialism of the working class ie the tradesmen and the veterans. The people who really build and maintain any country. This is why it was so hated from the start, it refutes communism in one stroke.

>>18135952
nta but China is quite relevant

>>18133980
This basically. While anti-intellectism does exist to some extent on the left, it is a core element in the modern right
>We don't want a nanny stare, we can think for ourselves
>Don't listen to government bureaucrats, they don't know what's best for you
>BBC, MSN and other mainstream media is fake news that lies to you
>Why of course the bible is right, any academics that say otherwise are lying to you
>Don't listen to the historians, the lost cause is right and Hitler did nothing wrong
>Don't listen to the traditional leaders of the largest Christian groups, empathy and tolerance are sins
>Think about it, the holocaust doesn't make any sense, the evidence must be made up and the experts liars
>Don't listen to scientists, climate change isn't real and/or is exaggerated
>All politicians lie and are corrupt, so who cares if our lot do it too. Don't you remember X, the left did it before
Etc etc
This isn't to say there aren't intelligent thought leaders on the right (you probably could mash Peter Thiel's various speeches into a coherent manifesto to provide a single example), but they probably either find the idea of a manifesto and telling people directly what to think distasteful. Or recognise this core element of anti-intetellectism, and realise it would be pointless, or possibly even detrimental to their aims. I doubt most of the right would want someone telling them how to think, they prefer being emotional manipulated with vague and open ended assertion, the being told to "think for themselves"

>>18136273
nobody who is a trade partner to China is relevant

>>18136255
I'd argue that Fascism in theory has more in common with communism in practice, than any other ideology.

Communism in theory seeks to abolish state, class, and kapital (money, property etc etc).
Communism in practice however, does the the complete opposite; it creates a hyper-statist authoritarian one-party militaristic government ruled by an all-powerful wealthy elite that controlls the masses, who mobilize the population and production for the means and interests and benefit of the state.
This is exactly what fascism wants.
Fascism is just another word for National-syndicalism. It seeks to control the market, control the economy, abd control the individual to the state interest. Everything for the state by the state. It's authoritarian collectivism. Fascism has nothing to with racism either, in fact, it seeks to pretty much abolish Individuslism altogether and form a collective mass of the people who's sole identity is the state. That's what primarily differ fascism from national-socialism, in NS doctrine it's all about blood, the people, the blood of the people define the state, if you change the people, then you change the state. It's racial socialism. Fascism however is the opposite, it's the state that defines the people.
Some other things differ fascism to Communism in practice, such as corporatism, as fascism allows private business. This is ultimately irrelevant though since Syndicalism of fascism means that all corporations regardless if privately owned, are still completely subservient and mobilized for the interest of the state; they have no free will if the state commands it, and they exist to serve state interests.

Want an example of fascist state? North Korea or Stalins USSR. There is virtually almost no difference.
This isnt just my opinion, George Orwell argued this as well, he was a socialist, but wanted to warn the world that communism in practice becames exactly as what fascism was in theory.

>>18133792 (OP)
It's not a coherent ideology. Mussolini used race to mobilize the nation into a corporatist war state. In his diaries though he mocks the idea of race.
It was a convenient way to gaslight retards into a war using a scapegoat. It is not relevant anymore.
>>18133998
>the problem with right wingers is they think fascism is about being trad, when the fascists where futurists that wanted to burn everything to the ground and start a new order
This is something that right wingers can't wrap their head around. I know most right wingers are uneducated, but I always get the feeling that they stopped growing mentally at a certain age.
Nazis deemed the KKK degenerates stuck in the past and the KKK considered the nazis authoritarian tyrants. There is easily accessible literature out there but they don't want to read it.

>>18133792 (OP)
Most Communists throughout history didn't really care about Communist political theory either. Stalinism and Maoism were just Populist movements with smaller Communist states like Albania getting caught in the crossfire. As others ITT have pointed out, Fascism and Communism superficially resemble eachother in a lot of way even if they are fundamentally different because both sought to leverage industry in some way to achieve their respective parties ideals, whether that was a Working Class Utopia or a Techno-Totalitarian Utopia
One could argue that Fascism is a broad series of industrial-era movements under multiple theories ranging from socialist principles to authoritarian principles, where the means of production was to be leverage in either a socialist or authoritarian context,

>>18136286
This argument has merit. But think about why? Facism is socialism in practice.
Fascism is simply what any state including communist with a specific large goal in mind has to become to achieve it what every state does at one time or another. Fascism is the old kings absolute power made manifest without the previous aristocracy running it.

National socialism is fascism but for the long term because in order for people to give themselves to the state their must be a buy in. In Germany it was blood therefore a long term project. In Italy it was order and glory, therefore fleeting. As such American hype jingoism and constitution worship around liberal values is necessary as there is no other buy in.

Do you think today's communists get this?

>>18136294
Rightoids are not really into politics and history. They're reactionary liberals at heart.

Good post though.
>>18136296
Yes but you forget that the authoritarianism has to have a point to it. That point is social development. Socialism.