Thread 18148641

>The state defines what is legal.
>If the state orders it, it is law.
>Therefore, nothing we did was illegal
Your counter?

>>18148641 (OP)
This is why Germany introduced a constitution to prevent that argument being used again, although Germany never repealed Nazi laws and there is no legal discontinuity between modern Germany and the Nazis.

>>18148641 (OP)
Why aren't the Russians on the stand for this trial, when they committed more war crimes and genocides than Germany? Could it be that this is a completely politically motivated trial which has nothing to do with morality, legality or treaties?

>>18148651
America supported the Nazis and wanted to integrate them into its command structure so the only Nazis punished were the ones they couldn't control like goering or the ones that didn't escape to Argentina or had some personal vendetta against other Nazis.

>>18148653
Okay so why are Nuremberg trials ever believed by anyone to be a legitimate war crimes trial when not a single soviet officer or government official was ever tried?

>>18148657
Not even Americans believed them to be legitimate and they were just a show trial for low level army officers to torture people, and today they are bandied by jidf as part of other arguments.
Soviets absolved all the people on their own side who supported Nazis and only made symbolic prosecutions of a small number of gestapo personnel.

>>18148660
Pretty much. Goering famously made a mockery of the whole trial.

One piece of the transcripts went something like:
Judge: Germany had a mobilization plan so clearly it intender to go to war
Goering: Britain mobilized pretty quickly for a country with no mobilization plans. Why don't you show me your plans and we can compare.
The next ten minutes involve alternations between Goering saying something which was censored, with the judge furiously ranting at Goering and demanding everything Goering says be stricken from the records.

>>18148641 (OP)
>>The state defines what is legal.
Aforementioned state no longer exists. New state has decided it was illegal

>>18148641 (OP)
Unfortunately they invaded various countries and made it everyone else's problem. So the point becomes moot when they decided to impose their laws on others.

>>18148675
You cannot retroactively create laws and punish people for not following them when they didn't exist yet, that's retarded.

>>18148707
Literally posting in a thread discussing the time that happened

>>18148641 (OP)
International law was not a foreign concept in the 1940s.

ummm actually sweatie if it's INTERNATIONAL then by definition it's foreign

>>18148641 (OP)
There's are literally laws above State law.
International law, the laws of war, constitutional rights, human rights... And more for sure.
t's all corner cases they will never really happen, until you get started with genocides.

>>18148707
>You cannot retroactively create laws and punish people for not following them when they didn't exist yet
the state defines what is legal
the state had ordered that ex-post facto laws are legal
therefore, what you did was illegal
You shall be hanged from the neck until you are dead.

>>18148707
>starts thread with "the state defines what is legal"
>immediately betrays this premise when the state in question is the US
Embarrassing.

The trial was a humiliation ritual They knew Nazis would have seen just being put to death by their conquerors Vae Victus style like the Soviets wanted would have at least partially honored their might makes right worldview, even if they were at the recieving end of it. Instead they made them go through a bullshit liberal justice dog and pony show to first to pretend there was some universalist impartial humanitarian principles behind it just to make them seethe. Based.

This doesn’t follow even if you accept the basic assumptions. The Weimar Constitution was still technically in force during Nazi rule - they never abolished it - and the Nazis never explicitly legalized the murder of Jews and other people they genocided. Most of what they did was highly dubious by the standards of their own law.

>>18148800
you're talking about two different states
do you really think that you deserve to go to jail when you visit singapore because you threw a piece of discarded gum on the ground in the US?

>>18148641 (OP)
This stance is self-refuting since their state had collapsed and a new state created new laws and trialed the nazis according to these new laws.
Nazi were self-defeated by their own "might is right" ideology too btw.
They deserved punishment according to pretty much any legal concept known.

>>18148707
this
show trials

>>18148884
They didn't genocide jews shlomo

>>18148933
You just showed that you are biased. Your would be certainly excluded from any legal jury roles and your testimonies would easily be discredited because of that.
Which shows that you are a biased imbecile with no slightest clue about the legal process at all. kek

>>18148901
Post facto laws are illegitimate in any state as it breaks the very concept of justice. So it doesn't matter if it's a new state or the old state. It's simply not justice.

>>18148957
Nazis executed those who harmed Jews as per both their and weimar republic laws. That's not bias that's simple fact.

>>18148641 (OP)
>Give government the authority to dictate private life
>It starts thinking it's god.
Every time, Individual freedom is the only moral system. Taxation is theft with or without representation. Individual rights matter, you have them whether or not you are outnumbered. Outnumbering someone does not grant you moral authority over their life.

>>18148963
No, if you give the state the right to make as outrageously unjust acts as mass murder "legal" then you cannot deny it the right to break some advanced legal minutia.

>>18148641 (OP)
We define your murder as legal just as you defined the murders you committed as legal.

You may use your final words to proclaim your own innocence and to label us as hypocrites and murderers. Then we will hypocritically murder you. And we will define it as legal.

>>18148971
Or - murdering the Nazis would have been perfectly "legal" if you are consistent within this framework.
(it only shows that the framework sucks, but it's what the Nazis were trying to use for their defense)

>>18148641 (OP)
>We won goy, you should have killed us instead of playing around.
>Now we will extinguish your race in less than a century, starting from you and your friends.

>>18148967
The group > the individual
So no you're wrong.

>>18148971
Of course you can. Because the issue is rules or rule breaking not what the particular rule is. Germany legalised deportation of Jews. It didn't legalise murder.

>>18148998
The nazis were successful in their defense. As such these show trials are held in contempt.

>>18149027
Funny that the post-war Western (kek) Germany was the strongest Germany that ever was. Because it wasn't being ruled by degenerate Krauts themselves but by actual civilized countries kek.
Same with Japan btw.

>>18149034
>The group > the individual
You are talking about force, not morality. Like every collectivist, you believe might is right. Which makes you a tyrant.

>>18148759
this
many treaties already existed by that point on top of the more general but not 'written down' peremptory norms

>>18149039
No im talking about morality especially. There's no individual without the group first, the individual lives in service to the group or it dies quickly. The cell of your body is nothing without the body it serves.
Morality comes from the group.
Yes im a tyrant and if you try to mess with my programme I'll put you in a camp where you'll work.

>>18149036
It was ruled internally by germans and rebuilt with German money. The real kick start was the EU coal and steel arrangement. Many of the people in these organisations were nazis who escaped the purge.

>>18149093
#American money

>>18148641 (OP)
The counter is choosing natural over positive law as the foundation of society.

"Society can get things wrong"

"Some rights are inalienable, no law depriving you of such rights can be genuinely valid"

>>18149097
Automatically self negating.
Who says what is inalienable?
How about next week I get bayonet and stick it in your guts then declare your inalienable rights null and void

Problem?

>>18149109
#in minecraft only

>>18148641 (OP)
>Hitler was a animal, not a human being. Aryans are, by their own admission, non human.
>Therefore a state run by a self proclaimed non human is inherently illegitemate.
Simple.

>>18149118
Hitler as the avatar of Wotan is more than human therefore is born to rule

>>18149089
>Yes im a tyrant
You didn't need to shit out the rest of your incoherent post. I'll explain it to you simply. Cooperation is not the problem, consent is. This whole
>humans are a social species
is a psyop to get you to surrender your rights. Cooperation is fine, as long as it is acceptable to every party involved. And that means on the individual level, I cannot consent for you, neither you me. That's how murder and euthanasia are separated, that's how rape and sex are separated, that's how stealing and receiving a gift are separated. Working together brings you to greater heights, I concede that easily, but it loses all moral value the moment force comes into the equation, that is simply fact.

>>18148771
International law is generally a contract though. States join chartas, conventions and international agreements which then creates international law.
Hence no US prosecutions in The Hague, for example.
Unless these blocks have the power to force "their" law unto others.

>>18149097
hence constitutions. and hence "this is a tribunal of the war winners, not the independent world court"

>>18149151
Consent is neither possible nor reasonable in every case for every action.
Murder and euthanasia are not separate by consent. Both are done without consent and this is in the interests of the public. You’re simply arguing out of enlightenment notions rather than observed scientific evidence.

Authority and hierarchy must exist. This is part of the greater morality of the group that overrides the petty wishes of the individual. This is simply fact.

>>18149118
How can I not feel threatened when non-Aryan people like you have such a brazen opinion of my beautiful, noble race?
It's simple self-defence, not cruelty

>>18149124
Saying you are above humans is the same thing as saying you are not one. Humans exist to overcome all. Gods are little more than parasitic memetic entities that can and will be killed.

Much as Zeus overthrew his father and cast him down form heaven so too is it the destiny of humanity to overthrow the gods.

>>18149210
How can I not feel offended by the existence of a race of subhumans parasitically feeding on human civilization? The extermination of the Aryan people is a act of no more political than removing weeds from your garden or killing vermin.

>>18149207
It is simply tyranny, and it will be tyranny as long as people initiate force on each other. What separates humans from animals is the unparalleled capacity to reason, to use logic. To think is an individual activity, like eating. If I eat, you are still hungry, if you think, I am still ignorant. To be human is to reason, we use reason to fight creatures that are stronger than us. To cook our food before we eat it for safety, to fashion tools and clothes to make our body more able to withstand and influence nature's cold. To initiate force on someone is to ignore their reasoning. This denies their humanity. To make them a means to your end. That is by definition the mistreatment of a human. It is akin to cutting the wings off a bird and expecting it to flourish in it's old environment. The nature of man is to be free. To work together in peace to satisfy man's own beliefs and values. To say "we need hierarchy" is to either accept that one is a slave, or wanting to be the master of slaves. Both are equally disgusting to free men.

>>18149211
> a car with a mattress on the roof is no longer a car.

You’re a fuckin retard. Re think your position

>>18149221
Freedom has severe limits. Your fantasies are just that. Most members of a group are not fit for independence. The group is the ultimate basis of morality. It was always thus going back to tribal days. Your vision is an imagination. Not reality.

>>18149217
That is enough words.
No kind of meaningful dialogue can take place when your bloodlust is so terrifyingly intense and misplaced.
The next time we meet, I'll have a loaded weapon in my hands and I'll be ready to use it

>>18149223
Bad comparison. If you claim your car with a mattress on the roof is no longer a car then if I accept that I have no reason to threat it as a car anymore.

Much like that, if a Aryan is not a human then I have no reason to give it human rights.

>>18149225
Your moral system excuses gang rape, you will never be a free human. Every moral victory you score by merit of gunpoint is a black page on the history of human decency.

>>18149228
Hitler was not no longer human but instead more than a human.
Check your dictionary Ivan there’s a distinction

>>18149226
>Bloodlust
Removing vermin from your home is not a act of bloodlust, it's work. Is it bloodlust to clean your home?

The next time we meet will be you in Nuremberg when you are a broken man. I will make sure that when we hang you, you'll do so facing west. That way you can watch your world burn as you die.

>>18149225
> Most members of a group are not fit for independence.
Correct.

>The group is the ultimate basis of morality.
Factually inccorect.

Only truth and humanity matters. A group that denies truth deserves only extermination. A group that fights against humanity deserves only pain.

>>18149233
There is no distinction. Both are enemies of humanity. And for the sake of my in group, my people, they are to be exterminated to the last to secure a future for humanity.

>>18149231
How does gang rape help the group in the long run?

Gunpoints are good at correcting the degenerate. I’ve no need to be free. I only want to crush people like you who threaten my group with foolish notions

>>18149236
A group that respects truth wins more likely. They win over individuals and freedom lovers in every way and the freedom lover dies out anyway

>>18148641 (OP)
Fair enough. "International law" is a meme that is hardly ever enforced (and when it is it's enforced selectively). That being said the Nazis were war criminals and deserved to be hanged

>>18148641 (OP)
You don't have to be sympathetic towards the Nazis to recognise that the Nuremberg Trials were a joke and little more than a show trial. The Soviet leadership in particular was guilty of every single crime the Nazis were indicted with.

>>18149243
>A group that respects truth wins more likely.
Yes. See the extermination of Nazi Germany for evidence of that.

>They win over individuals and freedom lovers in every way and the freedom lover dies out anyway
The problem with freedom is mostly that it cannot deal with people that are unreasonable. Freedom is fine for groups of people that are capable of self determination(Aka: Humans). But once people like nationalists, religious zealots, sexists, and idiots enter the picture it stops working.

>>18149245
>You don't have to be sympathetic towards the Nazis to recognise that the Nuremberg Trials were a joke and little more than a show trial
If it was a show trial every single Nazi would have been executed.

>The Soviet leadership in particular was guilty of every single crime the Nazis were indicted with.
No? If anything, the UK, USA, and France were more guilty. At least when viewed historically. Even then, they never tried to wipe out human civilization and were pretty much always run by humans.

>>18149036
>Same with Japan btw
When Japan was occupied by the US (1945-1952) it was at it's weakest point

>>18149238
>How does gang rape help the group in the long run?
What if there is only 1 woman in the group and she doesn't want to have sex with any of the others? The group would die out in 1 generation. There would be an incentive to "vote on the matter" as a point of group morality which you love so much.

>Gunpoints are good at correcting the degenerate. I’ve no need to be free. I only want to crush people like you who threaten my group with foolish notions
You are completely incoherent. I am saying individual freedom and consent matters. That means I don't threaten you because I will not impose on the way you want to live your life. That is what individual rights mean, you are free to live according to your values. In a individually free country you are free to start a commune, where you can have a committee dictate life to those that live within it, and people are free to either choose to live in that commune or leave. If me not joining that community is "threatening your group" you are massively insecure and missing the core part of individualism vs collectivism. Individualists want to be free to choose what groups they want to count themselves part of with the option to leave when they see fit. Collectivists seek to forcefully collectivize any people they can to ensure they have a labor force they can profit off of. It's why when you get a big split in the middle of a country (Berlin/Korea) there is always a big wall and an obvious discrepancy in the amount of people running from one side of the wall and towards the other. The more free country will always win.

>>18149221
>>18149238
just wanna say I like the points you have both made in your discussion. It's an interesting topic.
Don't know where I land on it because the arguments for hierarchy and freedom are both appealing. I expect that the ideal is a system that provides order and guidance to people as anon A says, but has allowances for consent into the system and various opt-out policies to allow for the freedom that anon B argues for.
Obviously this is very idealistic as and freedom that is guarenteed with nothing but policy will be stripped away in time.

>>18149247
>see Nazi Germany

See China
USA is fading

>freedom works only for free humans
Then it doesn’t work at all. Anywhere. It’s the indulgence of your group to let you have fun for a while. When you get old and weak you’ll cry for the group to take you back into its warm bosom and spoon feed you yoghurt

>>18149253
Nothing idealistic about it. Countries that respect individual freedom always win over those that don't. The USA was created by people who wanted to live according to their own values. The Old World are "I rule because god said so" collectivist conformists. USA blew past them in finance, technology, healthcare innovation in 200 years even though these old world dynasties are millennia old and contain 100x the population of the US. If China does it so well, why do they need 3x the population of the US to create only half the total value?

>>18149036
How do you measure strenght? By number of dildos imported? They were occupied countries just as they remain nowdays.

>>18149255
>See China
China is a country where right wingers are repressed, yes.

>USA is fading
Cause right wingers aren't repressed.

>Then it doesn’t work at all
It does but it needs to be limited to specific groups, not society as a whole.

>When you get old and weak you’ll cry for the group to take you back into its warm bosom and spoon feed you yoghurt
Or you'll simply get the goverment to take care of you.

>>18149252
If she doesn’t want to have children then the group is threatened, therefore she herself is threatened. Therefore for the good of all she must comply by agreeing to insemination. This is moral and just.

Individualists like you automatically threaten my group by your proximity. You may leave to the wilderness. If not you must comply and help the group.

>>18149268
There we have it, scratch a collectivist, find an incel rapist.

>>18149263
The USA succeeded because it was white and had free land. Now it doesn’t so it’s over.

>>18149267
China; where individuals are corralled and made to help

The USA fades because it became libertarian


Freedom for select groups within the group? I accept your concession

The government will spoon you yoghurt before you die like the weak pretender to freedom you always were

>>18149271
Indeed. Though there’s no need for sexual assault.
Thus the group will prosper despite the selfishness of the one woman. Children will be born. Food will be grown and happiness will reign.

>>18149263
Sorry what I meant was policy that is guarenteed by the government but the indivudual has no control over the repeal of it. So if it's something on the level of a constitution then it's hard to repeal and/or people with guns will string you up if you try to fuck with it. No, I'm talking about the "freedoms" that are graciously provided to us by our beneficent State at the cost of our servitude and obedience, such as we have in Bongland, that can, and are currently, and will be stripped away on a whim.

In any case, I think the threat and/or application of force is a necessity, both with the State in dealing with it's detractors as well as a civilian population with the ability to keep said State in check from becoming more despotic.
The only alternative I can see is extreme national unity, but then it's the same slog but with trying to keep it from being co-opted, corrupted etc. and then you're going to have the indivudualist-arguing crowd and the duty-to-the-state crowd.

>>18149284
The very definition of absolute morality

>>18149288
People are scum that need to be corralled and corrected

>>18149279
Every white country started with white people finding some free land. None of them came close to the amount of value that people built in America. In fact most of the old world is still kept afloat by the value that America created. Most western countries completely ignore their military budgets because America can keep up the world policing for instance. For you to ignore the role that the philosophy of individual freedom contributed to this is moronic at best and commie propaganda at worst.

>>18149279
>The USA fades because it became libertarian
It was always fairly liberal, even at it's height. Still, I do disagree that Reagan was the beginning of the end.

>Freedom for select groups within the group? I accept your concession
For specific groups of humans, mostly. I think the overall mistake is thinking of this in small terms.

>>18149297
Every white nation either surpassed or equaled the value attained by the USA. Science itself was launched in Europe as was philosophy. The east notwithstanding.
The USA is not and never has been any kind of greater achievement than the old world.

>>18149288
The only force the state need occupy itself with is defending the borders of the country from foreign invaders and the retaliatory force that comes with the justice system. You shoot someone in cold blood? The state tries you for murder. Ideally, you would be trusted as a citizen to carry a 9mm for self-defense. That way the state will not have to defend your rights for you as if you were a toddler. You want to know the most tragic thing? The UK police is literally on record calling raped teenagers "whores". This is the government that people are voting more of their rights away for. Disgusting, anti-human, death worshipping collectivists, all of them.

>>18149305
European technology has contributed nothing of worth for decades. That's why chinese electric vehicles are destroying volkswagen and other goverment-favoured european companies. Europe has been lazy and complacent.

>>18149301
You sold off manufacturing. You imported the third world. It’s literally over. Don’t disagree


Yes think in terms of big groups. Forget freedom bollocks

>>18149307
Europe is forced by your libertarian globalist policy to accept Chinese imports. Which is why America must perish for the earth to live again

>>18149308
I handle it systematically. I start with the biggest group: Humanity. Then start moving down from there.

>>18149297
How many White countries do you think exist?

>>18149311
You sound like a mid wit American with your freedom fries crap. You should be ashamed. You undermine the white minority in the world

>>18149315
Even if I'm being conservative we have the US, Germany, France, Netherlands, Poland, Switserland, Austria, Belgium, UK, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Finland. The rest is dubious at best.

>>18149318
>White
The single greatest enemy to humanity and therefore the group that needs to be exterminated and denied freedom the most.

>>18149319
>Netherlands
>White
Only if you think Jews are white.

>>18149322
The Dutch are Frisians, they just let the jews live in the west for the finance they brought in.

>>18148641 (OP)
The winners of war decide what is legal. That's how it's always been and always will be.

Might creates right.

You can argue that this isn't how things should be, but you may as well argue against thunderstorms and tornados.

Goering lost his legal mandate when the Nazi government fell. Execution for his crimes was guaranteed before he opened his mouth in the courts at Nürnberg.

>>18149248
>If it was a show trial every single Nazi would have been executed.
This is nonsense. There are plenty of show trials where some of those being tried were acquitted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakhty_Trial
>No?
Did the Soviets not commit the Crime of Aggression when they invaded Poland with the Nazis? Did they not commit War Crimes when they massacred Polish prisoners of war during the likes of Katyn? Did they not commit Crimes Against Humanity by rounding up hundreds of thousands of Poles and sending them to gulags, from whence few of them returned? Not to mention the mass rapes Soviet soldiers inflicted on Polish women. These are all well documented in the historical record. And I'm only talking about some of the shit they did in Poland here.
>If anything, the UK, USA, and France were more guilty. At least when viewed historically.
I wouldn't dispute that prosecuting state parties other than the USSR were also guilty of some of the crimes being prosecuted at Nuremberg. You might feel they were "more guilty" than the USSR (I note that this tacitly admits that the USSR was guilty too) but that doesn't change my fundamental point. The prosecuting state parties were prosecuting the Nazis over things they had done themselves in the same war. If Nuremberg were an independent, objective court it would have indicted them as well. It didn't because it was a joke of a court and the trials were about propaganda rather than actual justice.

>>18149335
He committed no crimes. He was just a powerful enemy . So they wanted to kill him.

>>18149337
>This is nonsense.
It is not. Especially considering they all deserved to death.

>Did the Soviets not commit the Crime of Aggression when they invaded Poland with the Nazis?
Not really, no.

>Did they not commit War Crimes when they massacred Polish prisoners of war during the likes of Katyn?
Most of the people killed were officers. Aka: The group of people that one is the most justified to eliminate.

>Did they not commit Crimes Against Humanity by rounding up hundreds of thousands of Poles and sending them to gulags, from whence few of them returned?
>Not to mention the mass rapes Soviet soldiers inflicted on Polish women.
Both are a joke compared to the Germans.

>These are all well documented in the historical record
A lot of them were only documented after the act.

>I note that this tacitly admits that the USSR was guilty too
My point is that none of them were as guilty as the Germans. They were uniquely evil and thus were uniquely vile and uniquely punished.

>If Nuremberg were an independent, objective court it would have indicted them as well.
No? That's not how a court works. If the crimes of the USSR were worth examining it would be done in a separate trial. This isn't Ace Attorney.

>>18149339
His crime was existence.

>>18149339
Legal law is just window dressing for the natural law, the ONLY law, that might creates right.

>>18149310
Factually incorrect, european car companies are propped up with favoritism by the governments they actually work for, so they were not incentivized by the free market to make the switch to EV. Now they lag behind enormously because they thought they could milk the combustion engine for another hundred years. The electric cars here are just combustion engine model cars lazily converted instead of newly innovated. You know why? They wanted the combustion engine factories to stay because electric vehicle factories need way less moving parts and more importantly, laborers. They ignored innovation to "save jobs". They kept climate killing combustion engines to "save jobs". The focus is on preserving the status quo, not making life better for everyone. This is why they will accomplish neither in the end.

>>18148641 (OP)
The state can define all it wants, it's still a thieving self-justifying faggot.

>>18149371
>Laws can't hurt you if you just say no

>>18149364
Jobs matter more than the type of engine to the group. You're dreamy and feverish. No one is interested in meme EVs until you can make 18 wheelers or fly jumbos with it. Get real. You let China undermine the white man by providing cheap goods

>>18149375
You have 2000 people working in 1 combustion engine factory now. If they work in 50 EV factories instead, those are 50 companies that have to compete for your money as a customer. That competition drives innovation, leading to this EV Jumbo Jet in a way shorter time-frame. The german government is the one undermining it's own populace by keeping outdated structures afloat using money taken from the productives.

>>18149388
This is wasteful and weak as not all these companies can succeed. As a nazi we would re structure this nonsense.

>>18149437
The original company is not succeeding, it is suckling the tax teats of the government playing favourites. The general populace (that group you love so much) ends up having to pay for the difference in higher taxes to keep the sinking ship afloat. Also, nazis venerated nature and without the urgency of war would likely implement a lot of climate friendly horseshit like EV mandates. At least pretend to understand the philosophy of those you try to be a part of.

>>18149444
To summarize, a company that fails on its own accord has to pay its own debts. A government agency can only keep a company alive as long as tax dollars are available to pay for it. They actually make you pay for a failing business to be "profitable". Now that is wasteful.

>>18149444
It's succeeding well enough. It's selling cars to the people and these cars are high quality. Much better than toy cars with low charge batteries that won't get you out of a snow storm. Nazis sought balance with nature thus despite the love of nature they build autobahns everywhere.

>>18149446
We can allow a limited competition level, to encourage innovation but not many many companies. This model of industry is common across the world and succeeds well. It is a proven model.

>>18148642
>This is why Germany introduced a constitution to prevent that argument being used again
They can't legally change the constitution? If they can then it is useless

>>18149531
You can amend it, but not in any way that undermines the democratic order of the state. It explicitly says that.

>>18148667
Grok told me you're a liar.

>>18149539
Nazis can and eventually will bend, break then re amend and set up a new nazi constitution. There's no other choice for humanity

>>18148653
Youd have to sum all dividends, employee salary, taxes paid and market cap of shares to calculate if a company was profitable vs all money used to create it

>>18148641 (OP)
Weren't they simply too lazy to change the laws, and therefore broke many of the laws that were introduced during the Weimar Republic?

>>18149635
>expecting collectivists to be honest

Democratic states won, so democratic states set the rules on what is right based on their ethical rules.

Nuremberg was primarily an American trial.
The Soviets and British presence were more symbolic for the sake of displaying unity, but in the end these were American captives.

Every international law is in practice based on might makes right.
All of them.

>>18149271
And?

>>18149307
The yellow dogs steal their tech.

>>18148641 (OP)
God given rights.

>>18148641 (OP)

The NSDAP seized power through the willful and malicious undermining of the rule of law in Germany. Therefore, no law enacted by the Nazis was constitutional and every German citizen or foreign citizen subjugated by the Nazi state would was honor-bound to disobey them.

>>18148653
>America supported the Nazis
>USSR was a literal ally of Nazi Germany for nearly two years

Shut the fuck up Ivan

bros, it may have been a show trial and whatever but i think it was good. it's an instance where politicians faced consequences for their actions, no? for example bush invaded iraq and shit but he got away with it. not even only him, many others were involved and should be punished also i guess but nothing happened even to him, but i don't think any living person today seriously thinks it was ok what he did. the US got away with it, you can't punish a state but at least you should punish his actors, no?

it's just a blatant example that comes to mind but in general, how do you hold politicians accountable? should it not happen? why does it not happen?

>>18150485
Laws aren’t real if you can’t enforce them

>>18148641 (OP)
>Your counter?
Your state no longer exists. Prepare to hang, kraut faggot.

>>18148651
Can you tell us all when the Red Army invaded all of mainland Europe and tried to genocide 50% of the population?

Oh wait, you can’t because they didn’t. That was the Nazis

>>18149036
Japan was and is literally a mockery cuckold state so I have no idea what you’re talking about

>>18148967
Why shouldn't the government be god?

>>18151100
It was Americans.

>>18150523
Because all international laws are essentially enforced by violence and not by principles or even legally binding in most cases. That's why USA can get away with it, they are the strongest force on earth, so they decide what's legal and what isnt.

It's primitive but it's reality.

>>18151100
>Can you tell us all when the Red Army invaded all of mainland Europe
1939 and 1945
In fact, both Lenin and Trotsky wanted USSR to push west already in the early 1920s

>and tried to genocide 50% of the population?
Stalin objectively killed more people than Hitler you fucking moron.

>>18149569
That makes sense since his a retard board, so you would make a retarded post like that appealing to a worthless tool like ai.

>>18151306
All lies. Stalin liberated Europe

>>18148651
>>18148657
Because they won the war and nobody wanted to start a new one with them over it.

>>18151363
Commies gets the bullet

>>18151363
The only thing Stalin liberated Europe from was unironically the Jews yeah he literally created the entire Holocaust alongside Holodomor before framing gay innocent Hitler like a real Mongol rapist conqueror

>>18151371
Soviet delegation was mostly symbolic for unity.
This was almost exclusively an American trial because those on the stand were American prisoners, not Soviet prisoners. The trial was according to US laws and procedures.

The Soviets themselves also regarded Nuremberg as a farce for the fact that the accused were given a proper defence and some recieved "light" sentence and others walked free completely.

>>18151389
The same Americans that blamed Germans for genocide are the ones that tried to protect Netanyahu for everything he did in Gaza! We need a new "nuclear Gandhi" meme

>>18151396
>The same Americans
Ah yes, the famous +100 year old US policymakers still active in 2025. Moron.

>>18151405
Everyone who doesn't support the new mayor of New York City should kill himself like both Hitler and Epstein!

>>18148651
HEY ZHUKOV
FRICK YOU COME GET UNDER TRIAL
You have to fucking subdue them first child

>>18151383
>>18151430
Power's the only language that works in diplomacy even niggers understand that obvious fact better than white-skinned goyim that converted to a Jewish religion! And Trump owes billions of $ in debt to both Epstein and his son-in-law who'll kill him before the end of 2025

>>18148769
underrated 7.5/10

>>18151199
The most prosperous countries on earth are not the ones with the biggest governments, but the ones with the most free citizens. If you care 1 iota about human flourishing and happiness, you would acknowledge this fact.

>>18151918
Shut the fuck up. Switzerland is best country and has extensive regulations on every day life.

You're clearly a stupid mutt with a gaping asshole for a mouth.

>>18151935
You are a useful idiot. I'm sorry you had to find out this way.

>>18151918
The most free country on Earth is Somalia

>>18151978
There being no government doesn't mean it is free. It means you are at the mercy of every violent thug you meet, which the country is full of. If government cannot enforce the rule of law, there is no freedom.

>>18151965
Try not organising your trash in the mandated manner in Switzerland. Yes you can have a gun, under certain conditions. Everything is conditioned in Switzerland. Your source are basically Americans that want low taxation without drastically reduced American foreign policy

>>18152015
It seems you dislike these conditions and mandates, yet call Switzerland "the best country". That's confusing. Putting that aside, these freedom indexes I'm posting are also modern and based in terms of social democracy and shit. I'm a proponent of objectivism (reciprocal radical individual liberty) which means I would agree with you that these mandates are unnecessary and oppressive on the individual. However, that does not make Switzerland an unfree country in today's terms. Comparatively, it scores quite high.

>>18152024
You're defining freedom in terms of pay packet confiscated by government. Switzerland is best in quality of life terms.

>>18148771
very recent events have shown that this is completely meaningless. last time i checked collective punishment is a warcrime unless the chosen people do it, apparently
might makes right, i guess, but don't pretend to be a power of good with your moral superiority complex. and like others have said, ex post facto laws are bogus. being a massive hypocrite is not good for your own credibility
apparently the germs even managed to vaporise a mock up village with jews with a nuke, according to judge jackson's very reliable source. read the transcripts if you want to have a laugh

>>18152036
When you compare white people only, american white people live the longest out of any white people on earth.

>>18152042
Norway

>>18152040
Ive read the transcripts. The nmt was a joke and goerring defended the nazis very well.

>>18152046
Norway is kept alive by oil money, almost everyone is a millionaire there. Why don't we just find more oil and become rich too?

>>18152056
Sweden.

>>18148901
There wasn't a new state and wouldn't be for many years. Germans were not even afforded POW status, as they become disarmed enemy combatants and shoved in camps to die in the winter.

>>18148641 (OP)
>your state lost the war it started, and so this state is going to try you for your atrocities.
Pretty simple.

>>18149027
The Allies preserved Germany after WWII. If they had allowed the soviets to just take it all you faggots would still be whining about it even harder saying it was all le jewish plot. Your narrative can only exist among retards who pretend the cold war never happened. Worthless retards.

>>18148642
This will be useful for prosecuting leftists when we win.

>>18148901
>might is right ideology
They literally never believed this.
This is a post-facto projection because its what the American World pushed to justify allying with the communists and imperialists.
>according to pretty much any legal concept known
Except English common law.

>>18148998
>within this framework.
But we arent using the Nazi framework, idiot.
We are using the Western framework and by OUR framework it is WRONG to punish the Nazis.
I dont know why this bothers you, are you someone the Nazis fought?

>>18148641 (OP)
>our state says that what you did is illegal, therefore you're guilty

>>18148642
100% Bullshit.

>>18148641 (OP)
Natural law.
>>18148642
Krauts are retarded
>>18149531
Because it demands that you accept that reality isn't really real.
It proposes that the real reality is the one in the constitution and the rules of the constitution aren't arbitrary as they define said reality, thus internally avoiding the contradiction that in reality, the constitution itself can be arbitrarily changed
Every platonist a straightjacket

>>18150485
>Malicious
According to whom?
>Honor bound
So the legal system extends only until one is bound by honor?

>>18148641 (OP)
>Your counter?
just shoot him, like the soviets did to the nazis they captured

>>18151413
>>18151454
>>18154291
Why would Hitler ever kill himself though? Was he a Jew like Epstein?

>>18154415
Why wouldn't he?

>>18148641 (OP)
The State decides what is law.

But the State also agreed to abide my international legal norms codified in Treaties. And if you breach those treaties, you did something illegal.

>>18148641 (OP)
He really did >the charges officer? lmao

>>18153833
The Cold War was just communist infighting.
Trots who believes capitalism first had to industrialize the world for socialism to happen vs stalinists who thought industrialization could be achieved under socialism with a few retarded maoists thrown in who didn’t even think you needed to industrialize to achieve socialism.
Look up the intellectual heritage of any neo-con you want it all comes back to trots.
There wasn’t a meaningful right wing movement in the west until the 21st century and once there was immediately you saw all the old (((neo-cons))) jumping ship and joining the democrats.
Dick fucking Cheney endorsed Kamala Harris how much more fucking proof do you fucking need?

>>18155483
This nigger gets it.

What would you call the 21st century right movement?

>>18148641 (OP)
>compromised elections raised the Fürher to power
>alt parties banned; democratic process seized
>street partisans booging
>crystal night, longknives, martial law
>Reichstag burned
>peace treaties against rearmament grossly violated for years
>every sign of a failed state
>thus, though the state made laws, those laws were unsound
>because it was a failed state in substance already
>the laws made under such conditions should be understood as emergency laws, temporary with set terminations, and only insofar as they aid the reconstitution of the state
>as they were not temporary with set terminations, but were intended as permanent laws for the purpose of consolidating the failed state against its democratic (Weimar) constitution into dictatorship

Just pilpuling.

>>18155665
It’s too young to have a proper name yet beyond the vague umbrella of “””nationalism.”””
It’s basically where socialism was before Marx created a formal theory for it in the early 1800s.
It’s still in many ways incoherent but it is coherent enough in its rejection of liberalism just as liberalism at its birth was incoherent in many ways yet coherent in its base rejection of feudal heirachy and tradition.