Thread 7606869

>Be me
>NSFW artist
>For a good while, was making a living from Patreon (around 3-5k a month)
>Over the last year, started losing subs
>Wasn't too worried at first
>Kept losing them
>Am now down to about 1k a month
How the fuck do I fix this? I can't go back to waging

>>7606869 (OP)
My plan is to get some patrons and comms, invest in something and just draw random shit afterwards.

>>7606869 (OP)
The economy is bad. People don’t have extra dough to pay you.

>>7606869 (OP)
Were you
>posting art publicly on a normal, regular basis?
>doing commissions and posting them?
>leaking your patreon content to kemono?

Patreon is extractive. It does not give you more reach, it just taps into the ambient impulse-donate amount that your audience has available.

Living off of patreon is always unsustainable, you have to do commissions too.

The bright side is that if you get fucking 3-5k a month from patreon you can probably charge upwards of $600 per peice, maybe more.

But I suspect this may be a larp.

>>7606869 (OP)
Why would I sub to your patreon that you post new content to at a snail's pace when there's multiple decent LoRAs of your work I can use to gen infinite content?

My numbers are in the red for a second month in a row. Noone is paying for art. I'm burning my savings and already looking for an office job.

>>7606972
If you're a digital artist, then having numbers in the red is very strange since you don't have many expenses directly related to your art business. Maybe if you're subbed to some SAAS shit? But even that that's tiny in terms of overhead.

>>7606869 (OP)
If you don't have exclusive artwork I'm not going to pledge to you.

Also $5 is too much. It's needs to be $1.

You're just going to post your shit to twitter devaluing your membership.

Want a commission?

>>7606978
>Also $5 is too much. It's needs to be $1.
Meanwhile prompters do just fine $5 and above
https://www.patreon.com/setsumanga
It's such a sad time for real artists

>>7606983
ever since i saw the vid of AIfags buying their own art i realized this shit was a ponzi scheme

>>7606983
That's why (I'm) not pledged to him.

It's not genuine.

>>7606990
I also think it's a ponzi scheme. The retards pledged to me didn't even know what AI art was.

Consider the people pledging. They're underage retards.

>>7607004
It's just a mix of people who either can't tell or don't care. Especially with ai gacha images people only care about the endresult as long as they can jerk off.

How much do you charge for coms?

>>7606983
Consider this. He only has 800 subs for his 300 thousand followers.

He could maximize his profits if he didn't charge so much.
If he got 1 dollar per 300 thousand that'll be 300k in 1 month.
Why don't people adopt this strategy?

>>7606983
>>7607010
Like kickstarter backers, I just assume those numbers are inflated with paid bots.

Patreon recommends $3 as your lowest reward tier. Only retards still have a $1 reward tier. Update your page. You are being raped by fees.

>>7606978
>If you don't have exclusive artwork I'm not going to pledge to you.
You aren't the people who should be pledging to an artist. You aren't reliable.
>Also $5 is too much. It's needs to be $1.
>It's needs to be $1.
ESL need not apply
>You're just going to post your shit to twitter devaluing your membership
The value is from people who actually want to support the artist. If you want exclusive shit buy a commission.

Oh wait, you won't do that because you're a thirdie and just want to get maximum value from minimum price. None of what you say even fucking matters because you'll be satisfied with kemono leaks if they happen.

AND you will probably bitch that the 1$ you spend on an artist a month isn't worth it if it so much as slightly displeases you.

Very indian mentality.

>>7606983
That's what happens when society is run by tech fucks.

>be me
yeah who else would you be?

>>7607007
This is 100% true. The people who think it's a ponzi scheme are megacoping because they don't realize how few people buy art in the first place, so they don't even consider the idea that a large enough portion of individuals would pay tiny amounts of money ONLY if they get huge packs of slop a month vs a few nicer quality images.

>>7606869 (OP)
AI makes endless porn of any character

Nobody needs you any longer

>>7607019
This doesn't jive because a large portion of furries are tech fucks who like all those optimize/maximize things and yet still pay for art. I know a bunch of furries who commission artists frequently yet still play with AI shit. They simply don't talk about it publicly, just in the (non-AI) artist discord groups that have dedicated AI channels.

>the only prism they have to view art is that of technical skill
A lot of non-ai artists are like this lol they get lost in the sauce of technicality and their art turns sterile as a result.

By sheer fucking statistics you would think at least one, just ONE guy on 4chan would hit it big selling sloppa and being able to prove it but it's been literal years and that hasn't happened yet

>>7607028
Because once you hit it big there’s no reason to prove it on /ic/

>>7607035
There would be on /biz/ or /g/ or something. Or shitposting here to brag.

>>7607035
>a million billion ragebait threads where people make up shit instead of actually showing the stacks you make from AI
yeah that makes sense

But /ic/ told me you shouldn't do it for the money.

>>7607010
Many patrons will always choose the lowest reward tier. Setting it at just $1 will hurt your potential profits. Most patrons would be comfortable paying $3 or $5 for the lowest reward tier. Don't give them the option to pay less.

>>7607010
100% of his followers are not going to subscribe

>>7607028
at bare minimum it's WAY too oversaturated to try to get into now

>>7607010
From my experience about 2% of your followers on X will subscribe to your Patreon. Of those, around 10% will be paying members.
So with 100k followers on X, that would translate to around 2k Patreon members, of whom around 200 are paying members.
You don't want to give them the option to pay just one dollar. A non-paying Patreon follower who might consider donating later is more valuable than someone who is already donating $1. They are less likely to upgrade to a higher reward tier because they are already in the pool of paying members.

>>7606976
Numbers in the red= not making enough to cover monthly bills and food

>>7607028
People are also afraid of getting harassed by /ic/ denizens despite making it.

>>7607024
b8
People are really tired of AI porn, so much so that r34 needed to add an anti-slop button because people couldn't figure out that they could just type -ai_generated into the search bar to filter their feeds.

>>7607048
>>7607050
>>7607060
If only 2% will pay, subconsciously that means they all know it's shit and don't want it. Right?

In retail 95% of people see product and already know they want it. Like food, clothes, toys, cigarettes.

>>7607048
>Don't give them the option to pay less.
>>7607060
>[good statistics]
>You don't want to give them the option to pay just one dollar.
>A non-paying Patreon follower who might consider donating later is more valuable than someone who is already donating $1. They are less likely to upgrade to a higher reward tier because they are already in the pool of paying members.
Correct! Glad to see other anons on /ic/ understand marketing.

>>7607062
You should track your business expenses and income separate from your household expenses and personal income.
It makes it easier when it's tax time.

>>7607156
>If only 2% will pay, subconsciously that means they all know it's shit and don't want it. Right?
Anon... this applies to ANY artist. Not just that one guy. Get it now?

>>7606869 (OP)
Go back in time and stop AI from being made, I guess.

>>7607015
i've had the $1 tier for like 7 years and have several hundred people subbed in it, I feel like if I made it $3 they'd all ragequit

>>7607165
If you have 700 people at 1$ then you only need 234 at 3$ to be breaking even.

Actually, you would no longer be getting buttfucked by fees so you would be making more money net. Up to 5 and you only need 140 people, and again more money net.

>>7607157
>>7607160
I have a patreon and I'd disagree with you anons.
My patreon followers don't pledged eventhough my prices are low.
From my understanding 50% of my audience are foreigners.
The only people pledging to my art are Americans.
And it's not my artwork, I'm above average.

It's just bad in all gig work areas. Everyone being forced to turn to gig work to make ends meet. Luxury goods aren't being bought as much. I went to donate plasma the other day, the place was packed on a Tuesday at 10am. They started reducing their payout because they're scummy pieces of shit. Everyone is pretending like shit isn't getting bad but it's only going to keep getting worse as AI displaces more and more white collar jobs because CEOs are retards

>>7607194
Just a fair warning, Don donate your plasma it's dangerous if done too much.

Also it's not that. They told me but I forgot. It's the pill manufacturing that trickles down to them paying you less.
They're the only ones who can make those and they want to go on vacation or some shit.

>>7607199
I only did it once. the first payment of 100 made it worth but the greedy niggers immediately went down to 60 and it only got lower and lower. it was just crazy to me how many people were in there during the middle of the week.

>>7607165
You can "unpublish" your $1 reward tier and everyone already subscribed to it will continue to pay $1. You don't lose them. Then just add a new reward tier with the same benefits for $3. New members will only see the updated $3 reward tier.

>>7607218
oh

>>7607192
Learn to read what was said, ESL-anon.
Your post has no relation to what you replied to. You said you disagree, but you didn't state what you disagree with.
You said your prices are low, but the posts you replied to are saying that your prices should NOT be low.

>>7607194
>Luxury goods aren't being bought as much.
This is false. It's only old school luxury goods that aren't being bought as much, because millenials, zoomers, and to a lesser degree GenX have different values and priorities as to what consitutes "luxury" from boomers. So the old brands are panicking.
Meanwhile, scalpers are working hard on arbitrage with luxury goods the younger gens care about. Concert tickets, various trading cards, game consoles, GPUs, shoes, and anything limited-edition.
Conspicuous consumption has been skyrocketing, the categories of veblen goods have been expanding beyond the traditional ones.

>I went to donate plasma the other day, the place was packed on a Tuesday at 10am
May in part be because of the knowledge spreading that donating plasma/blood is one major way to remove microplastics from your blood.

>>7606869 (OP)
If you go to graphtreon and look at the big guys, you'll notice that they all grew exponentially in the last years unless patreon straight up banned them so this is a (you) problem, not an external problem like AI bullshit, so fix yourself, promote yourself, reinvent yourself, pivot do something but don't blame AI garbage like the other anons in this thread are doing.

>>7606869 (OP)
I'll give you some random advice that might not work:
> Draw cuckold porn that involves spanking and/or diapering. It's low hanging fruit but it's an incredibly popular niche that really doesn't get that much content.
> Draw straight trap/femboy porn i.e. Josei Seme. What that means is basically a femboy/trap Dom'ing a hot girl. Again, niche fetish with a lot of fans, not a lot of content.
> Maybe some vaguely chud approved or rightwing porn. More danger of backlash, but again, niche with a lot of fans, not a lot of content.

I can't guarantee any of that will work or how your current fans will feel about it, but that's an untapped market that people should appreciate and subscribe to because they can't get it anywhere else.

>>7606983
it gets worse

https://www.patreon.com/ShadyFoxAIart
https://www.patreon.com/WaifuInvoker
https://www.patreon.com/Mrsadbat
https://www.patreon.com/NaughtyPuff

there are DOZENS of patreons like this making thousands of dollars a month, i have a whole txt file but these are just some random ones. it actually is kind of over for digital artists, even if you have your own unique style and brand someone will just make a LoRA of it and replace your 10 years of experience overnight.

>>7606869 (OP)
You've changed content or something? I'm making a steady 4k and its going up. Maybe you just stopped advertising or posting too much publicly.
>>7606968
AI has literally not affected anything, paywall or commission wise. If anything it's easier when there's a LoRA on your style that you can just trace from when you're lazy.

>>7607524
>If anything it's easier when there's a LoRA on your style that you can just trace from when you're lazy.
okay ebora

>>7607523
>https://www.patreon.com/WaifuInvoker
People talk about stuff like that Goommymuffin thing being a clear industry plant, but if I use those same principles then I look at stuff like this and also find it dubious:
>tens of thousands of twitter followers
>10k+ total patreon members, nearly 3k paid members
>last few tweets aren't even cracking 2k likes?
Like call me a schizo but something isn't right here

>>7607650
That's one of the reasons I really don't like AI. It can be used really inorganic fashion, as you said, industry plants. There could seriously be AI prompt farms for this kind of thing

>>7607650
Everything is fake.

>>7607021
Smart alec appreciation

>>7606869 (OP)
You relaxed

>>7607145
People are tired of BAD AI art. If you know how to prompt and can get a good style going, you are going to be treated like an artist.

>>7607523
>it actually is kind of over for digital artists,
I think it's actually over for pin up coom artists. Not all digital artists since people are still going to make sure to support the ones they like. But if you are talking about exclusive ecchi/porn ones? Yes, I think it's over. they don't have enough output to go against those prompters while matching quality, since they can leave the AI running overnight and pick the best ones in the morning and make a new set.
And with video gen coming up and becoming an even better, they can straight up offer something that is out of reach for a lot of these other Digital artists since animation is another whole beast.

I don't really think there is any really reason to learn how to draw if you only want to make coom art.

>>7608788
the thing is you are right but only for current year, 5 years from now we wont need any artists at all since plenty of people will make a name for themselves while using AI and pretending to draw by hand, and they will steal your audience/clients and you will be waging while they make 1000$ off a YCH that took them 30 minutes total to finish and then have the rest of the week off. like even the people who are anti-AI and love human art will just get fooled and pulled away from you by superior quality and speed that is touted as human art. like i said its borderline impossible to notice heavily ai assisted art, your average beg from ic could pass as a master painter with img2img and overpainting a tiny bit.

make it 10 years and you wont even need the prompters and fake artists, chances are image gen will be so streamlined and frictionless that the end user is not going to need a prompter or artist

the situation for any sort of digital content is reaally tenuous right now. even if there's an order in which creators will be replaced eventually nobody will be needed.

OP never mentioned ai. Meds.

>>7608805
I think you are blowing this out of proportion. But I do wish we weren't in this hell hole of 4chan. I really want to see what the younger generation thinks about AI since they are effectively going define what it means to be an artist going forward. For example does the newer generation wants to use AI more than learning how to draw? And what about the ones who use AI not as a way to replace knowing how to draw but to boost how much they can do, in order to fuel and make projects that wouldn't be able to exist (due to time or just amount of work) a reality?
I'm scared that people are going to lose the want to draw in the future, at least most people that is.
>>7608811
AI sloppers are now a somewhat big player in the patron space so it's worth a mention

>>7607524
>If anything it's easier when there's a LoRA on your style that you can just trace from when you're lazy.
how does one do that? detailed tutorial. I always got the idea but then I feel art blocked when I tried to execute them and it drags so much of my brain power that it drags my schedule. If AI can do that, I guess it's still better than posting late.

>>7608846
>I think you are blowing this out of proportion.
based on current trends of increasing quality and accessibility, no, i'd say im not.

accessibility is increasing, most likely one day the end user will not need artists nor patreon ai sloppers.

it is incredibly easy to use img2img to pass off beg scribbles as masterpieces, so you are competing with A LOT more people who just do things better, faster and cheaper, sfw or nsfw, and worst of all it isn't possible to really tell. there are a few artists that made their accounts within the last 2 years and eventually just go "oh yeah btw my proccess is 95% AI and 5% manual fixing", and even then they dont really lose numbers. i will echo the sentiment of some other anon ITT, people are tired of BAD ai art, but the polished slop is very well received.

i do very much want to be wrong but i've seen a loooot of evidence anon. just go and check out any of the AI threads on this site, like /slop/ on trash, its all just raw outputs made in seconds yet you can barely tell that it's AI

>I'm scared that people are going to lose the want to draw in the future
it's going to be an even smaller niche than before thats for sure. gen alpha will literally not understand the point of doing art by hand and it'll be viewed the same way we view blacksmithing, it's super cool but extremely rare and niche thanks to modern machinery and mass produced chinese potmetal garbage.

i do think it will survive as a skill and some people will just genuinely prefer to draw by hand, but its very improbable that it will be a career path ever again. it was very tenuous before... now its harder and 10 years from now it'll probably border on impossible.

Even long before AI, artists weren't competing for likes and donations. OP is probably losing followers because he became lazy or gave up and is now looking for a scapegoat.
Ai did nothing to my earnings on Patreon.

>>7606869 (OP)
If you started during covid it was never gonna be a realistic metric of what it'd be in the long run. I gained a shitton of followers during covid - and now so many are dormant.

>>7607523
>i have a whole txt file
Post it so I can figure if they are for real or all a ponzi scheme.

>>7606869 (OP)
be become a game dev and become an animator. you'll earn ad rev from watch time and viewer AND get commissions with patreons from that.

>>7608846
>I think you are blowing this out of proportion
He isn't, we're SO cooked it's unreal.
>t. img2img slopper
>>7609412
Gamedev is full of AI slop and animators just got hit with the veo3 nuke as well

>>7607650
>Ghost cat
looks more like a wolf

I think it's funny how the people who jack off AI as some omnipotent supergod the hardest are the people who clearly don't actually use it
They like to larp as if they use it but they'll never ever post any actual examples in the thread because the jig would be up

>>7609418
>and animators just got hit with the veo3 nuke as well
veo3 still sucks at animated stuff, it's only good at making realistic normieslop. It all comes down to training data and google isn't going to use anime porn.

>>7607199
>Just a fair warning, Don donate your plasma it's dangerous if done too much.
How so? I've been donating plasma twice a week for several years straight now, haven't noticed any ill effects.

>>7609531
AI us godly at making in-between frames and drastically reduces animation time though

>>7609531
At this point man, making any kind of declarative statement about what AI can't do is retarded. They kikes have made it clear, if there is data they can harvest AI can be trained on it. Their goal is to replace most of the white collar workforce reducing 99% of people to serfs.

>>7607523
> i have a whole txt file
Dump it

I'm seeing more and more prompters blatantly rip off specific artists 1:1 rather than doing a generic AI look.

>>7606869 (OP)
I love that no one is posting anydrawings in this totally not bait thread

>>7607028
Ill make it big but I'll still post here.

>>7607028
Pantsu-Ripper by your definition, has made it. He replied to a random comment I made about hit (I was talking shit about him).

>>7606869 (OP)
wow this is bot thread, same bot from /co/ it post all the time

>>7607523
>>7606869 (OP)
>AI faggots posing again, what blow up

what happened why are they advertising here again ? they only do this shit when something happed and they are scared, need more active uses

>>7609838
I see, ai getting sue by the mouse,
remember the two kinds of ai poster, when a new model comes out, they advertise it and say it is the future artists are over. when ai fails they advertise how much money you can make off it and everyone is using it you should too.

>>7606869 (OP)
artists in here who have a patreon where they make solid cash from, what steps did you take to get there and waht do you offer on your patreon that you don't publicly?

>>7607024
AI is awfully inconsistent. At least searching up human artists' tags will result in an art collection of consistent quality. And usually the later works only get better as time goes, to the point of you seeing an artist's artstyle come to life as he learns animation. That's why I usually filter out AI slop when searching for more smut. Accumulating a big list of artists to follow is a much better source of tons of new and good goon material.
AI can't do any of that shit. Yes, you have millions of porn images for free but 99.9% of that is absolute sameish garbage which gets boring fast. And as image hosting websites get flooded more and more with slop, it gets increasingly more difficult to find something good and unique in the AI section. I have 8k images/animations in my favorites and only 4 of them are AI and even those 4 surely had gone through human touch-ups. We'll see how it progresses though but as of now it's improvement has been slow as shit

>>7609852
Why should I tell you? The economy is shit worldwide. Patrons have less cash to fork for this BS. I will not help an online stranger to reduce my own income.

>>7609825
>I love that no one is posting anydrawings in this totally not bait thread
Honest to god what probably soured me the most about AI is how many AIfags just outright fucking lie all the time

>>7609906
ok crab

>>7609906
what is this attitude? you ppl prob dont even have the same niche
plus more artists w/ cash == more cash + motion in art world meaning more events +oppurtunity

>>7609852
Don't try to be nice. Many artists believe they will attract more patrons by acting generous and giving everything away for free. This is business. You should charge more, not less. The lowest reward tier with no real benefits should be at least $5. Also consider blocking users who cancel their donations.
You want patrons who are willing to spend $30+ a month. Give them a reason to do so. You shouldn't focus on those who want everything for a $1 donation.

>>7609838
>>7609848
none of this stuff matters, the ppl who threaten your internet art career have local models and they can run off fairly cheap hardware.

the only thing that would help is having those (and specifically the LoRAs and checkpoints) things treated as seriously as CP. suing midjourney will not stop some philipino beg from using img2img on your art im sorry to say. unless legislation makes it as illegal as CP local genners will continue to do this.

the people paying 25$ a month for novelai mostly do it for their own pleasure, not to sell patreon benefits and commissions.

>>7609261
>>7609806
sorry i may have oversold it, these are the ones ive found and bothered to save though
https://www.patreon.com/mnemosynekoto
https://www.patreon.com/Akihime
https://www.patreon.com/NaughtyPuff
https://www.patreon.com/ViralCat
https://www.patreon.com/EdenAiArt
https://www.patreon.com/WaifuInvoker
https://www.patreon.com/Mrsadbat
https://www.patreon.com/ShadyFoxAIart
https://www.patreon.com/MiyuAi
https://www.patreon.com/Lewdiii
https://www.patreon.com/LewdCreationAI

i would for sure sleep easier if you could explain how these would be faked
also there are a looot more that i didnt bother to add because it started to get trite, you genuinely can find so many AI sloppers that seem to make thousands. it would be quite relieving to find out that they're all passing around the same 10000$ to bait people into subbing but i dunno, it sounds like cope. its easier to believe that people are just coomers and will pay 1$ a month to see 500 images of their waifu

also as much as people accuse me of being an AI bro, no, i literally rely on drawing to survive, i am the last person who wants any of this to be a thing. but i also think it's good to be aware of the state of things if you are trying to go the social media artist for money route. you do not want to be blindsided by any of this.

>>7610012
Okay but do you have any functional suggestions instead of dooming?

>>7609990
That doesn't make sense.

>>7610012
You should check out some of the AI works sales on fanza, you'll need a japanese vpn for it though.

>>7610012
>i would for sure sleep easier if you could explain how these would be faked
Depends on if you also think something like this is legit

>>7610028
build personal connections and focus more on self-expression than on making algo friendly slop.

a handful of ppl who REALLY like your work and want to commission you, support you and talk to you can keep you fed.
100000 people who follow you and don't give a fuck cause they follow another 112391920 AI sloppers too, no that's worthless now. the days of the coomer/meme drawer type artists are very much over, you cannot outslop AI spammers

>dooming
listen man, if you can understand your enemy you will fare a lot better than the artists who stick their head in the sand and say shit like "lol ai cant do hands lmfao". you need to approach drawing with the knowledge that AI/a very low skill artist using AI can technically outperform you no matter what. figure out what you can do that they can't. you still need to work on your technical skills, but i do unironically believe that if you work with genuine passion and love you will be fine. doubly so if you already have some community around your work.

as for using AI yourself, i honestly would not recommend it, everything it produces is algo friendly slop and it will definitely rot your brain and make you a shitty slow version of an AI slopper. maybe there are very specific applications that wont ruin your work but tread carefully

>>7610012
>>7610089
I can't even get past 3 patrons.

How do we fight back?

>>7606869 (OP)
>For a good while, was making a living from Patreon (around 3-5k a month)
>Over the last year, started losing subs
>Wasn't too worried at first
>Kept losing them
>Am now down to about 1k a month

you're feeling the effects of AI, they're to hard to tell from the real ones now, just go see for yourself

>>7610649
Post your patreon here. Let me judge it.

>>7610012
I've researched this too Anon. These fuckers spam pixiv. You have to self censor on pixiv.
I've also researched their Twitters and they perform extremely poor There. Don't underestimate the gallery websites.

If only we could humiliate these fuckers. I haven't been blindsided. I've shifted towards other projects and less artwork.

>>7610660
No, it's too embarrassing and you guys will call me crazy. There's a good chance you've already seen me. My name is simple and memorable. Best of luck Anon. Have a good and wonderful day.

Maybe you guys should actually upload consistent art instead of jacking off 25 hours a day

>>7610685
Only if you pay me.

>>7610649
You don't post enough vtuber/gacha character/anime character of the month in current meme outfit.

>>7610707
I can't masturbate to that. only faggots like that shit.

>>7607145
Most AI art is slop, surprisingly. Besides, 90% of my goofing material now is made with NovelAI yet I still filter out other people's AI art on r34. Just because I don't like looking at low effort dogshit doesn't mean I don't spank it to AI.

>>7610655
I don't believe you. Post a screenshot of the graph.

>>7610012
post drawings, or you are just a troll ai fag

>>7610649
Worry about getting more non paying members first. Those are the ones who get to see your blurred pay-to-unlock posts. You can crank up the monetization later on. For now post more free stuff.

>>7610670
>>7610012
wow still no drawings or OP patreon, just name ai models for no reason, and we get ai is the future bro don't you want to make money bro, don't read the news bro ai the future bro, the lawsuit do nothing bro, it can be run local bro trust me bro, just fucking use ai bro, why will you not stop drawing reeeeeeeee

>>7610171
you are using chatptg to write that wall of text, you shilling ai, because you know it is fucked, I have seen the desperate level ai faggot have gone to get try to get people to use it, and love it, no one fucking care about ai anymore, just you fucking tech bros trying to keep the hype train alive

>>7610963
i literally said that i do not recommend AI use and that you should build a community around your work and focus on self-expression so people have a reason to care about you since technical skill on its own is just not enough. lmfao this is a take you'd hear on ic even pre-AI. and i wouldnt call it overhyped when it comes to social media art careers, there are dozens if not hundreds of AI bro patreons where they make thousands off their "work"

trust me you are directing your impotent rage at the wrong person but hey if it makes you feel better i guess lol

>>7610985
so are india scammers. wtf is your point, you are posting on a board about drawing, shilling ai, name dropping models. you are fucking advertising ai like all the fucking tech bro do.

>>7610891
>>7610921
>>7610963
>>7610991
Someone can't handle simple facts lmao

>>7610991
He's right lmao, also why the hell would anyone shill FREE fucking models, you can just install stable diffusion locally
>>7610985
Yeah also if you're trying to build a community you'll get flamed for using AI in any capacity, even for backgrounds or secondary characters

>>7608875
>Check out any of the AI threads on this site, like /slop/ on trash, its all just raw outputs made in seconds yet you can barely tell that it's AI

Why are AI shills like that

>>7611223
stfu, do we go to /g/ and shit on them, talk about pencil and drawing tablets, no, why because it would be off topic, you are just a shill fag

>>7611250
you are fucking shilling ai, you want to talk about, /aco/,/co/,/d//tash/ yet you come here, try shilling ai on /ck./

>>7611324
>>7611319
>stfu
You're an actual child
Keep stifling legitimate discussion about what's going on in art communities though. If you pretend it doesn't exist then it doesn't exist right?

>>7611327
no, it is not you are fucking shillling, you don't give us a link to op patreon, or post fucking drawing on a board about drawing, you are shill ai.

>>7611329
Dumb esl

>>7611333
that what you came back with jeet, fuck off, post a drawing or op info

>>7611324
Idgaf if you use AI, it's of concern to me because it can be successfully used commercially

>>7611345
>did you know ai is the future
again fuck off, you want to talk about ai go to the appropriate related boards, this thread is a shill thread,
>ai is the future
>ai will replace artists
>ai will make the money for you
>use ai
>here are the a named models for you to use
>reeeee you have to use ai now
still no drawings posted or op info

>>7611350
Didn't know I said all of this

>>7610991
>>7611350
seems like you are less afraid of AI and much more afraid of human connection
i genuinely feel so bad for you if you hear something to the effect of "you should be authentic, focus on your strengths as an artist and try to foster a community that likes you and your work" and you start foaming at the mouth about AI. you aren't afraid of AI, you are afraid of actually having to be creative because you either are a completely mundane person who wanted to draw FOTM algo slop, or just so demoralized that you can't fathom the idea of your work being liked without drawing FOTM algo slop.

sorry that your popular twitter pinup artist ego dream got taken from you i guess?

>>7611365
post a drawing, shill

>>7606869 (OP)
they just started pirating your shit, kemono has gotten tremendously popular lately. I've seen people openly linking to it even in the comment section of artists, it's not even a "secret" website by now.

>>7607028
bbc-chan still lurks here from time to time

>>7611453
>I've seen people openly linking to it even in the comment section of artists
lol
artists really are the most shat on

>>7611467
Most artists are shitty people. Or they're from India.

>>7611536
>Most artists are shitty people.
(you) included and the most of you shitters that say this, faggot.
>>7611453
I have only seen that like 3 times only and the comment would have 2 likes, while bookmarks would be like 300-1000, lmao.

>>7611453
This, everyone knows about kemono by this point, the few people that actually pay for your shit are either people that actually want to support you, or the scrapers. I've seen patreons open one day and immediately scraped the next, with like 10 subscribers, they don't even have the decency to make new artists grow their audience a little.

Quit being a paywalling cunt. No-effort fags who censor all their drawings deserve it. Have actual rewards and interact with your Patrons.

>>7611885
>you never see aie shit in kemono party
what did they mean by this?

>>7611899
[spoiler]Anon in Equestria[/spoiler]?

>>7611895
90% of artists just use patreon as a early access thing mainly because they know people pirate it otherwise, with no real paywalls, and they still get scraped

>>7607650
>Like call me a schizo but something isn't right here
You are a schizo who doesn't understand that twitter is a marketing website which has rules that determine who it promotes and who it deboosts. If it's your primary mode of contact you are ngmi because the main audience it wants to promote are not people whose entire business dies if twitter bans them.

>>7608875
>i do very much want to be wrong
Art is entertainment. Simple.

Why do people listen to others make up stories when they can just lay in bed daydreaming? Why watch a movie more than once if you've already seen it and know how it goes?

The impulse to MAKE art is not the same impulse to consume the art that OTHER PEOPLE make. AI getting "good" only feeds the former in a subset of people form whom the ways that feeding it previously were inadequate for their specific situation.

It's not competition either, because at no point was any non-AI artist getting the money from people who were willing to only pay pittances for large collections of images to page thru. The most art these people bought was gacha pngs, magic cards and the designs on the bags their fast food came in.

>>7609903
>Yes, you have millions of porn images for free but 99.9% of that is absolute sameish garbage which gets boring fast.
Yep. It's still dependent on the actual human behind it, and most people don't even think of art at all. They do not have the ability to "see like an artist" (yet), so you just get garbage or memes where the art quality is less important. I've seen a handful of people who make decent AI art and they post at a rate similar to non-AI artists.

Anyone fearing this is at best retarded, middlingly the kind of unstable person who needs therapy for their paranoia, impostor syndrome and poor self-esteem, and at the worst they're a soulless grifter whose mentality is better suited for an MBA not an MFA.

>>7610012
>>7610171
Grifter mad he can't spam slop anymore

>>7611250
>also if you're trying to build a community you'll get flamed for using AI in any capacity
This is not true. A lot of artists have dedicated AI art channels in their servers because they don't give a fuck and they have an audience that doesn't give a fuck.

I know of plenty of people who buy commissions AND fuck around with AI stuff. I know artists who make money and have people giving them money despite playing with AI stuff on the side. I know of people who use AI to generate small bits for background clutter and so on, or for references and etc.

Nobody gives a fuck what twitter crabs screech about, you should be filtering those fuckers out anyway because they only bring bad experiences and headaches. They'll move on to someone else who is a juicier target.

>>7611345
>it's of concern to me because it can be successfully used commercially
>t. thirdworlder who lost his job making shit art for shovelware app developers

>>7611453
>>7611885
Piracy doesn't hurt, it helps.

>people that actually want to support you
The only reason you would see this as bad is if you are a mental case who lacks any spine and thinks that their work is unlikable to the point people would spend money on it.

>>7612644
Early access fucks up your posting rate but it's less bad than paywalls.

You should be leaking your own art to kemono. How many times must it be said?

>>7612644
yep. I literally share everything I post to patreon to my twitter account and people will still scrape it and post it to other sights minutes after i release it. You can't reason with these people. they feel entitled to your hard work and have no remorse. they think you don't deserve anything for your effort even though they are so eager to steal your hard work.


Being an artist has always been doomed since the beginning of time. No reason to expect that to change now. The only reason I am surviving is because I have a relationship with my community and patrons.

Deep down i wish i could actually kill ai sloppers and content theives with my bare hands and drink their blood. no joke. but i just let go of those feelings and focus on creating content i enjoy.

>>7612945
>This is not true. A lot of artists have dedicated AI art channels in their servers because they don't give a fuck and they have an audience that doesn't give a fuck.
Made up pajeet narrative. Not reading the rest.

>>7612948
It's real and it's among a lot of coomer artists.

>>7612948
>>7612959
Non-coomer artists as well too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Sheridan

>>7612946
>they think you don't deserve anything for your effort even though they are so eager to steal your hard work.
This is a retarded way to view it.
They love your work SO MUCH they go thru the effort and risk of spreading it around so other people can see it.
They want it to be archived so that if anything happens it's hosted some place else.

They are MAKING YOU MORE POPULAR in the process of doing so. Piracy is not evil, it does not fucking "steal" from you. You NEVER were going to feasibly have a good amount of money from just forcing people to pay you a pittance. It's unsustainable.

You know why? Because those people do not care enough about your work to actually do so if another option comes across. That dollar is extremely fucking conditional, and will be gone the moment something else tickles their brain in a slightly more pleasing manner, which could be anything from another artist to a videogame to some food trend like this dubai chocolate thing. It's not the same as the people who will actually support you as a priority.

>>7612968
I get what you're saying. But you completely ignored the part where he said that he'd post it to twitter on his own after a while. If the work he posts to his patreon instantly gets spread, then people have no incentive to subscribe to him. they'll just get it from the pirate sites. You're not giving the artist ANY time to actually profit off of his labor. Yet you expect him to be grateful? That's crazy.

>>7613018
>then people have no incentive to subscribe to him
This is not true. The people who really like his work still will. It's a direct line to the artist as well, bypassing social media nonsense.

The problem you are having is that you think the amount of people who are going to do that is too small.

>You're not giving the artist ANY time to actually profit off of his labor
Do commissions, nobody owes you shit without a contract. Patreon is a combination tip jar and a ticket to the VIP status for an artist.

Patreon/substar/etc. just a way to gain some extra money from your audience because it's work that does not increase your reach. It should NEVER EVER be relied upon as your primary.

Doing so is so financially risky that any accountant worth his salt would throttle you.

>>7613027
>nobody owes you shit without a contract
See you just proved him right. You think the artist doesn't deserve anything for their labour.

And the contract does exist. You pay a small fee, you get early access. That's the contract. It's just being exploited maliciously due to the limitations of security on patreon.


Youre the one who doesnt deserve shit. Youre taking somebody's means of income without paying for it and worse you're spreading it. It's one thing to find a loophole and enjoy the content for yourself but to spread it around without consent is actually evil.

>>7613036
How the fuck do you think people end up wanting to pay you? They have to know about you first! They have to see that piece that sparks something in them to where they go
>"Oh man I REALLY want to support this guy so he can keep making more of this, this is my fuckin JAM!"

When you gate that shit, yes even TIME gate that shit, you are reducing the chances of any particular piece reaching a person. You burn out the novelty of it on the people who see it on patreon first, and then what? They don't share it when it's public! It's no longer new! The initial hype, is gone!
If they did as you said, then your shit would not spread as far.

The entire strategy of internet art is that YOU have to be basically a mind virus, to where your work is constantly being spread by people who really enjoy it. And then you get people who want to pay you DIRECTLY to produce more (AKA commission you), or throw a few bux a month at you in charity.

Do you understand?

>>7613047
post your patreon

>>7613047
Not only is that incorrect but it's not at all your right to make that choice. If you cared so much about making your favorite artist go viral you'd repost the works that they did share willingly to sites they weren't posting on. Your entire philosophy is built around justifying exploitation.

>>7613047
I'm convinced at this point that you might be a sociopath. lol

>>7613047
>And then you get people who want to pay you DIRECTLY to produce more (AKA commission you)
What if the artist doesn't want to do commission based work?
>or throw a few bux a month at you in charity.
lol

I think you're the type of person that really feels the need to see EVERYTHING an artist produces for some reason

>>7613069
It's built around leveraging the observed patterns and tendencies in how people work, and working around them. Rather than whining that the world isn't socially-engineered to force everyone to not do things that make me feel upset.

>>7613076
Nah, the complete opposite actually. I regularly piss off those around me because I express empathy for people that are getting dogpiled on. I've actually kept friends and family safe from sociopaths through recognizing their inconsistencies and lies, and this REALLY pisses off sociopaths.

Being able to empathize with someone doesn't mean agreeing with them. I can understand why someone would get pissed off at their art being shared, but the information that led them to that visceral reaction is just not lining up with how things actually work.

>>7613100
>What if the artist doesn't want to do commission based work?
Some people live this way via patreon-type things, but it's really scary to have your entire income be set up to run through a single point of failure that has less protections than regular employment. The other alternative would be selling originals, prints, or merchandise, but those are also kind of sketchy and you're really only going to, at best, supplement your income with those.

Because the amount of people who will pay for things from you is going to be rather small, you can more easily saturate the market you have with those. Space considerations, for example. Or the amount of initial investment and time required to get each new variety of merch made, as each person realistically will only buy 1.

Also, normally if someone said
>I don't want to actually perform a service for other people in exchange for money, but I still want to get paid for doing it on my own time
this would be viewed as bizarre and a mentality more adjacent to arbitrage-based professions than creative ones.

Art is just not a profession that lends itself well to being something that generates a lot of residual income, despite the mythology around it. You need to invest portions of your art revinue for that to actually come about, but that's adding on an additional factor.

You have to do the work.

>>7613117
What do you think about japanese doujin artists then? It's only recently they started doing commissions to when skeb came out some years ago. I'm not saying commissions are bad by the way I just don't think it should be seen as a must option

>>7613137
Completely different market. As far as I'm aware (which could be ignorant as I don't speak jp, but have seen some stuff translated from people who are in that scene) they don't actually expect to make much money off it and have a normal job doing something else, whether it's in an art field or not.
They're just in it for the love of the game, most of the time.

>>7613144
It's not really that different, they advertise it on pixiv/x with some pages and the cover while selling it on platform like dlsite. They definitely can earn enough money to make a living from it, at least when it's porn.

I don't know why I come here. no one draws

>>7613177
The generals are where people draw and post their work. You'd know this if you weren't a fucking tourist

>>7606869 (OP)
There can be many reasons, but starting from you...
Do you scam your customers? Like, if you want to give a PSD, give the actual thing, and not the working file with 99% merged down in order to have only 4 layers.
Also, did the quality of your stuff go down for the sake of making it faster and more?

>>7613149
Yea things have probably changed since rona. Most of my info is older so I was thinking of the physical market at various conventions (comiket is just one, there's a lot) alongside the costs associated. It was a thing for doujin authors to really not expect to make much profit off it for the longest time, that I'm sure.

>>7613433
I know some of the really popular authors could make enough sales from a comiket event to live off for a year, online definitely made everything easier. You often see them release it physically at comiket and put it on dlsite at the same time, not to mention that they can actually advertise artist's works in site banners but I'm not sure if the artist has to pay with that or if the site decides on its own. Discount sales are also great too incentivise people to buy works they might not have done.
There's also a few online platforms that will print and sell your work physically for you like melonbooks so if someone bought your work digitally and really likes it they could double dip and buy a physical copy. Japan just really has the whole R18 product selling business down well. Japanese artists are eating pretty damn well I'd say. it's interesting how they've adopted western artists practices like patreon (at least I think patreon came first) and commissions, the more options to make money off one's work the better.

>>7613451
>Japan doing something shittily
>Looks to the west
>Copies what the west does, but better
It's like a rule at this point lol. Good to hear at least some doujin authors are doing well. Those services sound amazing, wish we could get something similar but the goddamn government and card companies keep lumping NSFW art and IRL pornography into the same category, and then treating art-based sites like they're at risk of being involved with human trafficking.

>>7612938
>"hey you should focus on building a community rather than making algo friendly slop"
>GRIFTER GRIFTER MAD YOU CAN SpAM SPLOP ANYMORE GRIFTER

anon you need meds assuming this isnt just low iq

>>7613578
You spammed a billion links to AI tards, general dooming, saying "the days of the coomer/meme drawer type artists are very much over" and that these idiots "threaten your internet art career."

The amount of obsessive seething that came thru your posts wasn't the energy of someone who is either laughing at the slop artists or fine and encouraging, but someone who dejectedly had to give up making slop and is intelligent enough to understand the path forward. Yet hates it.

Maybe your ESL fucked your tone up but that is how it came across. You posted a shitload of negativity and then some okayish shit.

Yes you need to be authentic. This is not new, you ALWAYS had to, now you have proof. You are not likely to get picked up by doing "safe" (not sfw, "safe"), formulaic, conformist artwork, so you might as well make what your soul burns to put out there.

AI art doesn't "threaten" anyone who isn't a slop artist, and never has. It's inconsequential.

>>7612968
they can spread my work after the limited time of exclusivity my supporters have expires. Out of respect for me, and for the people that decide to support me.

>>7613626
>reddit spacing

>>7613735
Respecting you would be taking a piece that you did "exclusively" and showing it to someone that would really like it, who then becomes a fan of yours.

>respect for the people that decide to support me
If they see other people pirating as "disrespectful to them" then you have courted a fanbase of karens. That is a bad position to be in.

Also I can tell this isn't a principled stance against piracy at all, because you likely downloaded the loomis book or others for free, probably pirated an art program (you seem like the type of person who would turn his nose up at krita, very non-FOSS attitude you have), and potentially pirated an art course or videogame in your life.

Beyond that, piracy has consistently been demonstrated to at worst be inconsequential to economic viability, and at best spurn the biggest spenders to be ever more obsessive beyond what they can actually afford. Music, movies, games, programs, art, doesn't fucking matter. Media is media.

>>7613899
do wake up everyday jacking your dick to ai ? or are you fucking invested in ? and your space is chatgpt so fuck your mother

What is going in this thread?

>>7614196
>talk about how the fucking internet works and how you MAKE IT as an artist
>point out hypocrisy
>piss off a retard
>AI brought up without mention of it

Total unprincipled "rules only should protect good people not all people" mindset. I bet you think there's some kind of difference between drawing art of some random fuck's OC without permission and drawing one of Butch Hartman's characters, or that murder and theft are fine if the person "deserves it."

>>7614321
>Wanting people to pay for exclusive content is bad because they're fickle, invest in the group of people who would never pay
>The people who leak exclusive content are doing so out of love. Why? Because it's just is ok...
>Well you aren't a paragon of morality yourself, so wanting to get paid is a sin
I feel bad that I used to fall for bait like this; because these words do sound like genuine advice from an artist when they're phrased right. Which they are, they're just from the scummiest artists that are so common these days.

>>7614511
You are too retarded to understand but I'll try anyway in the hopes that someone with a few IQ points higher than you is reading and it helps them get it
>invest in the group of people who would never pay
Wrong. It's investing in the people who are obsessive but might not have much money, because they will archive and spread your work around and be on the ball if you ever got banned or otherwise shitcanned. Some of them will pay you, but in general it's having free advertisers.
>The people who leak exclusive content are doing so out of love.
Yes. Have you ever talked to one? They genuinely like the work and want it PRESERVED because such things can and DO easily vanish into the aether. Whether because the site decided they no longer wanted to have the artist on there (yes even after 10+ years this happens) or the artist having a meltie, or the artist moving to a different one and NOT REPOSTING ANY OF THEIR OLD SHIT ANYWHERE. Additionally, oftentimes a patreon will be the ONLY place for the maximum quality of an image. I am not talking "exclusive high res", I mean that most social media sites compress the fuck out of art, and there are less and less places that will let you upload everything you make in full res/quality now. The only one I can think of without (major) content restrictions is fucking itaku or making your own website - which includes neocities.
>Well you aren't a paragon of morality yourself, so wanting to get paid is a sin
Incorrect, I was simply pointing out that you were arguing a point in bad faith. If you don't wan spergs like me - with high pattern recognition and who relish in violating what we see as unjust social norms - to point out how the emperor has no clothes, then it would be in your interest to avoid making arguments based on principles that you don't actually believe in.

It's called "having integrity", "having actual universal principles", and "arguing in good faith", you should try it sometime.

>>7614531
You forgot the ":)" at the end

>>7613899
>can tell this isn't a principled stance against piracy at all
I'm not against piracy, that's why I don't paywall anything, I just post my artwork on patreon a week earlier than on my other platforms, the people that pay me receive access a week earlier.
>Respecting you would be taking a piece that you did "exclusively" and showing it to someone that would really like it.
I already archive all my shit, I post it on all the major socials, boorus and archive websites and give link to download my stuff at high resolution for free. You know what the people that scrape my patreon and share my stuff without my consent do? They remove my signature, they pretend they are me and take credit for my stuff and others, they never link to my socials or help me reach a wider audience, they use my stuff for their own benefit, stop pretending it's an act of love, they don't give a shit.
>>7614531
>They genuinely like the work and want it PRESERVED
I'm not stopping them to download my works how many times they want, back up it on the cloud and multiple hardrives. I can handle posting them on social media and archiving my shit on my own, and if they want to scrape my patreon, they can wait for a week until it becomes public. If, by any chance, my patreon account gets banned before kemono users managed to scrape my last post, I'll personally be the one to share it.
Stop pretending like the people that run kemono love artists, I was in their telegram chat when it was still a thing, they're a bunch of hateful losers that want stuff for free, they insulted artists if they even dared to give early access to the people that paid for it, and went to death threats if they paywalled something, they saw artists as cows to milk for content and not as people to respect, they didn't care if because of them an artist they scraped lost subscribers and had to stop making content, they moved to someone else. You might not be one of them, but the majority is like that.

>>7614701
>I already archive all my shit, I post it on all the major socials, boorus and archive websites and give link to download my stuff at high resolution for free
Severe doubt, there are very few artists who do that.
PYW
Calling this an obvious LARP if you don't.
>They remove my signature
>they pretend they are me and take credit for my stuff
This is not the people who are uploading your shit to kemono looool.
Also, this never actually happens outside of random instagram pajeets, and doesn't fucking matter if they do. Because A: they would do that without your kemono posts anyway, B: nobody can keep up the charade for long because it takes more effort to scrub off a signature. Who gives a fuck? Anyone who REALLY REALLY likes the art will go on a reverse image search anyway.
Quite literally this is a nonissue and anyone who thinks it is has been duped by the neurotic memetic paranoia that suffuses twitter artists.

Also, if you REALLY were upset about this you would have done what every other fuckhead who misunderstands the nature of the net and embedded a big fat ugly watermark in someplace difficult to crop out, at the expense of the piece. And you wouldn't be uploading to websites that you can't actually take down from like Boorus, because the motivation (CONTROL) also isn't there.

>they insulted artists if they even dared to give early access
Nonsensical statement. You think the people who shitpost in a telegram chat are going to be representative? Nah, most of them are quietly staying on the down-low and just happen to share an image "someone else sent them but I thought you might like tee hee". I know people who do this shit, they are fine. They're often pretty autistic but they are very much archive-brained and not "GIMME GIMME FREE FREE FUCK U FOR PAYING". There are occasional complaints about how many hoops an artist goes thru to make this shit both annoying for the archiving AND the people paying.
>LE DEATH THREAT BOOGEYMAN
Go back to twitter

>>7614531
dude, if you like an artist you just like, retweet and share their art to your friends, and if you really like it you download it and keep it for yourself. you have severe cognitive dissonance if you think hurting the only way an artists is making money is actually "for their own good", and legit sounds like a wifebeater. There are assholes that deserve their works getting pirated, but doing it for everyone, when 90% of creators on patreon being indie guys that have it as their single source of income and barely make ends meet, and justifying it as an act of love legit makes you sound insane, at least be honest about it and admit you just want free stuff. also this >>7611453 is the main problem. piracy will never disappear, but kemono has gotten so popular that it's not just third worlders that search the deep web because they can't afford to subscribe to an artist they like anymore, it actively kills the earnings for many, many artists in a market that's already overcompetitve and neckbreaking. it was difficoult to reach a living wage with patreon beofore, now it's almost impossible. be reasonable.

>>7607218
Does this work on pixiv fanbox? Anybody who's what happens when you delete a tier? I've been thinking of taking a vacation

>>7614802
>hurting the only way an artists is making money
Quite literally doesn't cause harm. No matter how many times you wish it did, it doesn't.
>it actively kills the earnings
It does not. The MPAA and RIAA have consistently FAILED to prove that piracy is damaging. You are trying to prove that the sun revolves around the earth here. That other anon you stated indicated the "main problem"? He hasn't actually provided anything to back it up. No causal data, no nothing. If he did have it, you bet your ass the big media industries would have gotten such statistics first and paraded it around.
>RESEARCHERS FIND PROOF PIRACY IS KILLING MUSIC
No such headlines exist, even the EU tried to get a study done to prove this, and buried it when it proved THE OPPOSITE.

It's not reality. You are believing a fucking lie because it FEELS right, but it's objectively wrong. The only thing it hurts is the feelings of people who are delusional.

>>7608875
Capitalize your Is, illiterate swine.

>>7614837
You're saying piracy is helping creators but I'm not seeing any substantial increase in earning since after kemono became so popular, quite the opposite actually, most big earners have platoed and small creators have lost subscribers,with the ones remaing stable or growing being the ones with their own website with a Patreon login wall, the only solution to kemono currently. Also you're implying Patreon is essentially charity, and people subscribe to artists not to receive exclusive stuff, but only to support the artists, curiously though every creator I know has a jump in subscribers after they have a big drop in content, and Patreon itself is built around the excange of benefits with each subscriptions. You're saying all the poeple that subscribe right after a new exclusive game update, or animation, or comic chapter, and then don't renew the subscription the following month, would still subscribe to their favourite creators if they knew about kemono or other piracy websites? It doesn't work like that, and you know that.

>>7614701
>boorus and archive websites
>posting your own art to the boorus instead of letting your loyal fans do it for you
Lmfao, that's depressing, you're so desperate.
>They remove my signature, they pretend they are me
>signing your work
>your art is is so generic and unimpressive that people don't instantly recognize it
What a sad life you're living. I pity you. Some people are just not meant to be artists

>>7614892
Your entire ESL post is just dashed away by this website https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
The more likely connection is just the economy, but you would have to actually go around examining both the artists and their fans in great detail (output, spending habits, income level, etc) to see what's up.

>You're saying all the poeple that subscribe right after a new exclusive game update, or animation, or comic chapter, and then don't renew the subscription the following month, would still subscribe to their favourite creators if they knew about kemono or other piracy websites?
You're assuming they don't know piracy methods exist and yet choose to not use it lol

Also you're conflating artists alongside ongoing projects, these are completely different (with real different benefits to giving the creator money) and you either knew this, but tried to disingenuously conflate the two, or don't understand the topic with any level of nuance.

>>7614896
Signing work, legibly, is fine. It helps new people find you. Even if your work is "instantly" recognizable, you may be just "this art I really REALLY like but nobody knows who made it!!" to the people you want to find you, because of your name not being out there. The vast majority of the time a version with the sig cropped/edited out is going to not be the one that floats around more, and commenters will usually shit on someone who does that.

>>7614892
Hey could you share the artists who use patreon as a login service for their website? I've thought of making some mixed media project that would need to be hosted on a website instead of being distributed as img files etc but I've thought it's too much of a barrier of entry

>>7614896
>The people reposting your stuff without your signature are doing you a favour by spreading your work to a new audience
>The people that see the reposted art should already know about you and recognize your works
Impeccable logic.

>>7614896
pyw, you must be a pretty popular artist with a instantly recognizable style right?

>>7614925
Both of those statements are by different people.