Thread 7757981

perspective
forms condensing because of steeper angle of incidence

why not use english resources like a normal person

>>7757981 (OP)
This is about line weight.

>>7757981 (OP)
The gaps get smaller the further away they are from the viewer, kinda like how ships on the horizon look like toy ships because they are far away, not because they actually got smaller

>>7758067
thanks, now i know how blind i am

>>7757986
nothing to do with perspective. a cylinder in orthographic projection will do the same.
>>7758067
holy kek how does one get so stupid?

>>7758067
>>7757981 (OP)
The gaps get smaller because that's just how cylinders work. Sure, perspective plays a role, but not a very significant one. Try placing N equally-spaced points on a circle, and then squish the circle vertically so it approaches the shape of a line. The spaces between the points will appear to decrease as they approach the edge of the shape.

>>7758118
What does the N stand for?

>>7758120
N stands for any number. 5, 12, or even 100 would work. This effect is visible for any number of points.

>>7757990
china is the future...

>>7757981 (OP)
Where is this from?

>>7757981 (OP)
i did this in ms paint with the line tool and scaling the circle with the box select tool on that original circle. and ellipse is a circle in perspective and this is how the lines spread out when you tilt it.

read a perspective book seriously, this is the first thing any prebeg should do, before you even draw a box, you need to understand the reason why you're drawing your lines where you are.

>>7757981 (OP)
i did this in ms paint with the line tool and scaling the circle with the box select tool on that original circle. and ellipse is a circle in perspective and this is how the lines spread out when you tilt it.

read a perspective book seriously, this is the first thing any prebeg should do, before you even draw a box, you need to understand the reason why you're drawing your lines where you are.

>>7757990
This board is the epitome of the "Place...Place, Japan" meme (I know, this graphic is not Japanese). Methods that were developed by westerners and written down in books by westerners decades or centuries ago are ignored here until repackaged with some hanzi or kanji.

>>7757990
Japanese resources are better than Western ones. Even western ones translated into Japanese become better and less pozzed.

>>7758207
Moon runes are good at convincing dipshits that it's some secret mystical knowledge.

>>7758207
It's one very vocal troll and a few useful idiot imitators going around and asking for how to do "anime color", "anime perspective", etc. He starts all the vapid east vs. west threads on this board and instigates mindless arguments against so-called anti-Japan people. Always making baseless claims about the superiority of Japanese stuff, and sees everything in black and white. He's also the guy who has been posting the "cognitive resolution" meme for almost a year now.

I think he's trying to get people to hate anime or Japan somehow by making everyone who likes those things seem like a dogmatic idiot.

Low visual resolution thread

>>7758215
Ah yes, non-pozzed bitch basic perspective only nips can supply

>>7758236
>"anime color", "anime perspective",
are you implying anime doesn't have its own way of doing those? ooh no no no no no no we're reaching low cognitive resolution levels previously thought impossible
*neil degrasse tyson.png*

>>7758267
I don't know how you haven't been banned yet, it's ridiculous how you've been allowed to pollute and degrade the quality of an already shitty board

>>7758276
>doesn't know that Japanese art has the most complex treatment of *** in color theory
oh no no no bros we got him

>>7758149
https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxJERaBdwVmMyxCLsw7vNDPSYBsIJEckca

youtube randomly showed it to me, not sure if it's AI slop or a real guy

>>7758296
permabegs in the comments section thinking her shit is the antidote to getting them out of /beg/

>>7758298
>The funniest thing about learning "anime style" artwork is a lot of the stylization comes down to "draw it in excruciating detail and then erase it until it looks pretty"
the retards are getting all philosophical in there....

>>7758325
that's not even "anime style" that's just like the bare bones of stylization in drawing in general, like how you don't draw every single brick in a wall, just enough to imply them.

>>7758218
Well, to 3rdies without writen history and developed theory and craft it is, Europe and Asia have been the most advanced in that regard, but they rather not admit the former cause they are the bad guys of globalist narrative.

>>7758325
>>The funniest thing about learning "anime style" artwork is a lot of the stylization comes down to "draw it in excruciating detail and then erase it until it looks pretty"

>>7758106
>orthographic projection
ortographic projection is still a kind of perspective, pedantic nigger

>>7758399
You've got that backwards
Perspective is a form of projection, projections are not a form of perspective.

>>7758351
You've been trying to force this meme for a while, and it hasn't caught on. You aren't funny. Just stop.

>>7758479
>You've been trying to force this meme for a while, and it hasn't caught on. You aren't funny. Just stop.

>>7758134
That's japanese

>>7758134
China will grow larger

>>7758548
Japan will mog. Nippon banzai!

>>7758399
Orthographic projection and perspective projection are distinct. Why does nobody know this, even on a drawing board? A perspective is drawn in relation to a single point of view, whereas in an orthographic all the points are projected parallel to one another, almost as if there were infinite viewpoints all along the picture plane observing the subject in tandem.

>>7758479
I find it funny how every time it's a different edit and every time everyone who replies acts like it's the same image

I didnt know people had to "study" perspective, I thought it was just ingrained into our brains that far away things are small and close up things are big.

>>7758685
Perspective is actually a genius marketing device, the need to cope is real among beginner artists and you can sell them simple drills that will supposedly make them better. It's infinite menial effort that gives you dopamine and you keep coming for more.

>>7758106
orthographic projection is a method of technical drawing
humans don't see by looking at an object, imagining a front-side-top view and then projecting it through their eyes
you are trying too hard to sound smart. pick up a perspective book

>>7758764
retard or troll

>>7757981 (OP)
This doesn't make sense because when you draw cylinders you don't draw contour lines

>>7758767
>>>/sci/
they can probably explain it to you

>>7758771
Mmm, really not sure still.

I'd like to say troll, but you never know these days, you know?

>>7758770
it's not a cilinder, it's a chunk of a pencil

>>7758685
this wasn't ingrained in my brain

>>7758685
I think projecting them on paper is the skill itself.

>>7758986
But I mean, but you only have to do that once to get it, right?

>>7758296
Kawaiisensei. Books are often recommended on /ic/. Looks like they are making course for that website.
I personally think the books are probably outsourced to pajeets and AI. Like it's obvious the cover, manga, examples, exercises, videos are done by different people.

>>7758989
pretty much yeah. there's a few rules to learn, they're pretty simple, and then you're done, it takes less than a week to learn how perspective works, the rest of it is just grinding to gain an intuition which you will do through your regular drawings.
i see no reason to skip learning it when it's the most simple of fundamentals. it's just tracing lines really.

>>7758992
i hate lines though

>>7758992
Is that Craig Attenborough's book?

>>7758992
>>7759005
Is the book any good? Compared to How to Draw, Perspective Made Simple, Framed Perspective, etc. The reviews are a bit suspicious.

>>7759005
That's Framed Perspective 2. Free on Z-library but you might find a copy in the artbook thread.

>>7758989
The more details you want to add, the more you'll benefit from an accurate perspective. It's a good skill to have.

>>7759040
do i need to read Framed Perspective 1 to follow the plot of Framed Perspective 2?

>>7757981 (OP)
>Not providing a rigorous mathematical proof
>Not even citing geometry
Why are artists so retarded?

>>7759174
it's visually self-evident, you don't need to build up from Euclid's axioms every time you draw a line

>>7759057
Are you a bot? What does that have to do with what I said?

>>7759025
all perspective books cover the same material, just pick something you can understand, framed perspective is probably the most technical of the books i've read on perspective.
>>7759073
framed perspective 1 covers most of the basic perspective stuff, framed perspective 2 covers shadows and figures.

>>7758399
>>7758764
dang, you have reading comprehension of a stapler. read my post again, maybe you'll find where you made the mistake.

>>7759378
orthographic projection is a method of transferring a 2d image into a 3d plane and that 3d plane is in perspective
it doesn't explain what's actually happening but i wouldn't expect someone that hasn't studied perspective or physics to understand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zpWR187Raw

if you cant figure it out just do gesture drawings, that way you wont have to think too much, seems difficult for most of you

>>7758643
the way i think of orthographic projection is that the station point is infinite distance away so that all vanishing points are likewise infinite distance away.

>>7759454
and the logic goes like this. if you keep the picture plane the same size, but have the viewer go further back, the vanishing points spread farther apart. so if you set the viewpoint an infinite distance away all the vanishing points will also spread out to infinity making all lines parallel if they go in the same direction without ever converging.

>>7759390
what is wrong with you. my point was lines on a cylinder will get denser irrespective of fov/focal length or the edge case of ortho. i know exactly what orthographic is, i use cad.

>>7759492
do you know why it gets denser? because of perspective. the frontmost part of a cylinder is closer to you then the edges, if you turn a cylinder into a prism it becomes obvious
just because you use something doesn't mean you know how it works, most people don't know how computers work but they use computers
you're dumb

>>7759516
>because of perspective
you keep using that word. i don't think you know what it means.

>>7759520
you don't even draw

>>7759523
i accept your concession

>>7759516
>do you know why it gets denser? because of perspective
no, the lines are literally at that position, nothing to do with perspective. that's like saying that in this picture the eye on the right and the nose appear close together because of the perspective (wrong)

>>7759516
It's because of orientation, akshully.

Foreshortening isn't just a perspective thing, it happens in orthography as well. The the faces on the silhouette edge of a cylindrical prism appear to get thinner because they're oriented toward the camera and therefore foreshortened. It has nothing to do with perspective.

>>7759543
>>7759544
i'm not surprised why you're all still bad at art when you can't even understand the most basic fundamental concepts

>>7759571
i'll make it easy for you, why do 2 of the legs of this table appear in the center of the table (hint: don't say perspective)

>>7759583
learn something new

>>7759571
Yeah, definitely just a troll, ignore him.

>>7759590
>posting a random unrelated page
thanks, interesting stuff

>>7757981 (OP)
not being able to decipher images like this and learn from them is a sign of low mental resolution

>>7759686
just call me retarded, no need to sugarcoat it

>>7758479
Seems like it's working as intended based on how much you're crying.

>>7758986
what causes this?

>>7759777
i'll try my best to explain it.
an object in perspective is going to be distorted so to get exact measurements on its surface, you simply draw your measurements out on a line where there's is no distortion, which is going to be the line that is parallel to the two vanishing points of that surface
and this holds true no matter what the size of your measure line is. you take the end of your measuring line, match it to the corner of the surface you projecting to, and then run it to your special vanishing point, and then you can project the rest of your measurements to that surface from that special vanishing point.

and here's a freebie, if you have a set of horizontal lines on a surface but want to make them vertical, or vice versa, just run a diagonal line through the surface, the points where it intersects those lines are where you will run your perpendicular lines with the same measurements.

>>7760224
okay so i see how it works but i still have a couple of issues with it
first of all, why even create new fake vanishing points and not use existing ones? i.e. for the top example use lvp and project it to the orange line. the only thing that changes is the scaling.
second, what is the utility? aside from a cool party trick i really fail to see why it would be all that useful. if you're doing this on a computer... just use perspective transform? if not, then holy shit it's gonna be a fuckton of lines.
third, and this is my main gripe with cubes and vanishing points in general, the points are gonna be way the fuck off the canvas. i fully understand how the procedures work when you can just ignore any common sense for composition, comfortable focal lengths, and constraints that only tilt/shift lens could bypass, but that doesn't help with drawing, honestly.

>>7760845
if you use the left or right vanishing point then your measure line has to be an exact length, which would be whatever that length is if that line was actually in the drawing in perfect perspective.
using special vanishing points lets the measure line be any length. instead of 1.58mm, 4.74mm, 3.16mm, you could simply do 1cm, 3cm, 2cm, or 1 inch, 3 inch, 2 inch, which are all the same exact proportions, but easier lengths to work with.

in the past something they'd do is do their initial sketch small so they could have their vanishing points on paper, then they'd blow up their drawing using a photocopier to the size of the drawing they want. and use that sketch as an underlayer.
digitally this is even easier to do.

>>7760882
if you're in it for the measuring then move orange measure line up and down. any parallels work, right?
and again, if you're working digitally and okay with using lines, just use perspective transform on the ref at that point. i don't get what this busywork with lines achieves.

>>7760902
yeah, and using vanishing traces you can also use any size line. with the perspective warp tool in drawing programs this manual drawing stuff probably isn't as useful but i still think it's worth knowing as fundamentals. like projecting shadows in a scene follows a lot of the same logic of following lines back to special vanishing points involving light sources.

but the most useful thing about perspective is keeping everything in a drawing true to scale with eachother. like you wouldn't want to run lines from a character in the foreground to someone in the background and realize either one of them is 10ft tall or 4ft tall

i could have a plan and elevation of a room, plant myself in an exact position in that room, and then draw it in perspective from that pov, i could move a table 3 feet to the right, rotate it 30 degrees walk to the other end of the room, and it'll all still be true to scale.
i think it's worth it to take a week to learn perspective unless you only do landscapes.