Thread 213604143

what do you think about the different cultural spheres of Germany?

>>213604143 (OP)
DDR is not a single cultural sphere, 45 years of foreign occupation does not erase 2000 year long cultural zones
Thuringen has more to do with Bayern than it does with Mecklemburg

>>213604143 (OP)
Which one has the best sausages?

>>213604199
DDR state lines are a hard divider bro. Thuringers feel like generic ossis.

>>213604143 (OP)
Ausländerkarte

>>213604199
>Thuringen has more to do with Bayern than it does with Mecklemburg

May have been true before Soviet occupation but certainly not these days anymore.

>>213604266
>DDR state lines are a hard divider bro.
HERR, NEEEEIIIINN!!!!

>>213604295
how?

>>213604199
oh boy did they erase those zones

>>213604434
Die Karte malt Landkreise an, was dazu führt, dass hier Pfälzer getrennt werden und die rechtsrheinischen Pfälzer mit Schwaben und alemannischen Badensern, die kulturell eher was mit den Schwyzis zu tun haben, zusammengeworfen werden. Bin mir sicher, es werden sich noch dutzende andere solcher hirnrissiger Beispiele finden lassen, ich komm halt nur ursprünglich aus der Ecke.
tl;dr Ausländer raus

>>213604143 (OP)
Probably bullshit like most alleged cultural spheres in europe.

>>213604690
Basierter Ethnograph

>>213604690
Mannheim ist grün. Nur die Kurpfalz ist fehlerhaft blau, wobei Heidelberg überhaupt nicht mehr dazu gehört wenn man ehrlich ist. Da leben nur Zugezogene ausm Süden und es ist viel zu versnobbt für die Pfalz.

>>213605217
>Nur die Kurpfalz ist fehlerhaft blau
Sag ich ja. Auf den Käffern wird tiefstes Pälzisch geredet und man orientiert sich immer linksrheinisch.
>Heidelberg
Heidelberg ist historisch und traditionell einfach Vereinsmitglied, auch wenn da heute nur noch Neigeschmeckte leben, klar.

>>213604143 (OP)
Red: acts mean is nice
Green: acts nice is mean
Yellow: acts mean is mean
Blue: acts nice is nice
Correct or no?

>>213604143 (OP)
dunno all i know is i went to cologne on a school trip and it was genuinely the most beautiful place ive ever been so whatever sphere that’s in is the best sphere

>>213605607
Und die Kurpfalz und Pfalz gehören für mich definitiv mit NRW zusammen. Ludwigshafen könnte genauso im Rheinland oder Ruhrgebiet liegen

>>213605922
people wise or because you liked the dome? the people there are known to be the most likeable in all of germany

>>213605922
>it was genuinely the most beautiful place ive ever been
Bait used to be believable

What are these krautniggers yappin bout

>>213605871
red: acts mean is nice
green: acts nice is nice
yellow: acts mean is mean
blue: acts nice is mean

>>213605922
Cologne is one of the few places in germany where multikulti was kind of cool. Until 2015

>>213606037
Arigato

>>213605922
Damn, when was your school trip? The city fell of hard in the last years and even the inhabitants know this.

>>213606041
>>213606186
in what way? former safe areas turning unsafe because of migrants? I still desire to move there someday because I have still have a positive image of the rhinelandish culture

>>213604199
They definitely did. Similar to how poland was once considered part of central europe, but now you are eastern europe

>>213605922
>it was genuinely the most beautiful place ive ever been so
are you sure you went to cologne? or had you never left Slough before or since

>>213606285
Cologne has fallen offsince 2015 but its still a very nice place and prices aside youll have a great time. Crime isnt an issue its just theres less enthusiasm for life but that goes for all of germany

>>213606285
Dirtier, more open drug use, more blatant mismanagement of city ressources.
You can life well in Cologne but it has become more unpolished.
And rhenish culture is not only located within Cologne.

>>213606426
>>213606411
Retvrn https://youtu.be/URrq3k3Mn7I?si=qswXDqHUbBwhUB1Y

>>213607076
I know every country has its nostalgic period but these people will never know how based 2010-2014 germany was. It was a godly time. Fast food slop for 1 euro, a fat real döner for 3,50€. A solid economy. Low social tensions. German cars were still good. A real national team. Extremely low crime.

>>213604143 (OP)
I love every culture as much as the other but green is just my favorite color.

>>213607218
>Missing 2014 instead of 1980s

>>213607345
In what way are the 80s preferable to the 90s

>>213607383
CD killed the analog cassette

>>213607218
I remember /int/ dickriding krautnogs all the time back then, hilarious how much you've shot yourselves in the foot

>>213607383
cooler music

>>213605945
Ajo die Besatzung nach 45 hat ganze Arbeit bei dir geleistet

>>213607383
less brown people

>>213607599
stimmt awwer schun iwie

>>213604266
>Thuringers feel like generic ossis.
what do you mean? you don't want to tell me that a person from Sonnenberg is more similar to a person from Rostock than to a person from Bamberg

in a better timeline im born in 1980 as an italian german in an immigrant ghetto in munich or cologne and live a great life and then move to italy the moment 2015 hits

>>213607745
Ossis are Ossis. Big divide between Franken and Thüringen

>>213607801
>Ossis are Ossis.
explain
but use arguments not referring to politics
how is their CULTURE any different?

>>213604258
I was told Thuringia

>>213608221
It’s the same post-GDR culture everywhere. They have distinct dialects, economic circumstances, architecture, slavic genes and all that.

>>213608496
East Germans had Slavic genes for thousands of years due to a lot of them being Germanised slavs, and also intermarrying with neighbouring Slavic kingdoms. A Saxon prince inherited the throne of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

>>213608496
>They have distinct dialects
do you mean 45 years was enough to erase the dialects that had been previously developing for 2000 years and form a new dialect, despite German language being already well established and virtually everyone being literate in standard German in 1945?
>economic circumstances, architecture
how is it related to culture? anyway, what do you even mean by architecture if there are commieblocks in west Germany as well
> slavic genes
if it really matters, then it would have already mattered before WW2, Slavic genes have been there for 1500 years. If anything, existence of DDR erased the last leftovers of Slavic presence in east Germany because that was the time when Sorbs were eventually destroyed as a distinct culture.

>>213608767
I only know the Fränggisch dialekt of Drachenlord and I don’t know if there’s a real transition from that to Thüringisch

>>213608803
ok but maybe it was like that already before WW2? how do you know it's the result of DDR borders?

>>213608767
My teacher was from Jena. She was in no way similar to a Frank. I couldn’t name one thing that someone from Bamberg would have in common with someone from Jena. She was an Ossie through and through, judging from her accent (not dialect) she might as well be from Brandenburg or East Berlin. She was cold and mad and blatantly had all those GDR mannerisms installed in her head.

>>213609005
>all those GDR mannerisms installed in her head.
like? using "guten tag" as a greeting instead of "gruB gott"?
>judging from her accent (not dialect)
somehow i refuse to believe there is a specific pan-Ossi accent, literally how could it emerge within such a short time span?

>>213609184
there are virtually two ossi accents. The saxon-thuringian one, and the weaker berlinerish, which is used all throughout brandenburg and meckpom (low German no longer exists there). I guess there is a small stretch of frankish in thuringia as well.

>>213609184
>GDR mannerisms
Life in the GDR was substantially different from the rest, including Franconia. You think the schools in Thuringia were as relaxed as in the west? I agree the GDR is the most obvious sphere, it’s clearly it’s own thing after 50 years of brainwashing and planned economy

>>213609373
but how do you know these accents have anything to do with DDR and they didn't exist before WW2?

you simply associate the Saxon accent with DDR only because Saxony was in DDR, not because DDR created the Saxon accent or anything. Your point would only make sense if there was some pan-east-German accent/dialect that was created by the East German media/education system and that didn't exist before WW2

>>213609552
>You think the schools in Thuringia were as relaxed as in the west?
does it have more to do with what is called "Prussian discipline" rather than DDR itself? I am pretty sure there was already a large difference in teachers' approach to students between Prussia and non-Prussia before WW2

>>213607801
> Big divide between Franken and Thüringen

Parts of Thuringia literally belong to Franconia you absolute dumbfuck.

>tfw have to defend Ossis' honor against their own countrymen
I would never think it could happen

>>213609725
Irrelevant. DDR area is its own thing. Germans know this

checked these two towns and they look literally the same
i could never tell which one suffered from communism for 45 years

>>213609843
Look at any map. Old regions don’t matter here. GDR states live in their own reality

im curious if there are still any Wessis who have never been to east Germany because they still hold some old stereotypes about them being communists, spies, and just rude and uptight people

Why are East Germans gaytheists?
Was commie propaganda really that effective or something else?
You are not true poorfags and eastoids if you are atheists.

>>213609844
Claiming there's a "divide between Franken and Thüringen" is just plain retarded when historical Franken literally includes significant parts of Thüringen. But a Bavarian goatfucker wouldn't know this of course.

>>213609897
>Sonneberg
Many ‘franks’ either fled to the west or were forcefully resettled. Those 40 years were more important than what was before

>>213610043
>uptight
well, Czechs or Estonians are atheists too
it has more to do with urbanization level, education and simply civilizational development
Communist Romania or Poland were extremely backward mentally and economically even comparing to the said countries so the religion held stronger here - simply because a society composed mostly of half-literate peasants needed it. But as our countries are developing, they are also rapidly secularizing.

>>213610077
Historical borders don’t have as much of an impact as a totalitarian socialist regime that persists for 40 years.

>>213609991
>im curious if there are still any Wessis who have never been to east German

about one in five wessis have been never been on former gdr-soil. unlikely because of some negative stereotyping or shit like that. just no reason to go there.

>>213610115
i wish i could notice at least one thing on google street view that would tell me about this grim communist past because i can't spot even one
Sonnenberg looks like a typical western disneyland with all houses being perfectly kept, not a single patch on the road, great urban planning, healthy, good-looking people etc.

>>213610210
>just no reason to go there.
no reason to visit your country's capital? no reason to visit one of the most historically important cities (Dresden)? no reason to visit one of the most beautiful cities in Germany not destroyed in WW2 (Gorlitz)?

>>213610187
I don't care. Your original statement is extremely retarded, claiming there's a divide between two regions that literally overlap. You could have said there's a divide between Bavarian Franconia and Thuringia but you were not smart enough to do that.

>>213610168
>Czechs or Estonians are atheists too
Don't know about Estonians but in the case of Czechs it was a leftover rebellion against Habsburg Catholicism.
So not really wealth related, but politics.
>urbanization level, education and simply civilizational development
You can have that and still be religious.
Lack of faith is a relatively recent thing in European history.
>they are also rapidly secularizing.
That's not a good thing,
Retards are still going to be retards as atheist, btw

>>213610236
most places in the former gdr look well in tact.
>>213610265
It would piss me off to see the extent of the bombing damage. I hate inconsistent architecture and aesthetics. I prefer cities like Heidelberg where old towns stay in style for 95% of buildings

>>213610346
it’s still an obvious thing to say. It’s just a smalls stretch of land you’re talking about

>>213610265
no
no
no
and no

no particular reason to drive from fucking aachen to görlitz just to see some pretty buildings. no real reason for somebody from globohomo munich to visit globohomo berlin.

>>213610378
>Don't know about Estonians but in the case of Czechs it was a leftover rebellion against Habsburg Catholicism.
dude, there were countless examples in the world where people were killed in the name of religion yet it never made said people irreligious UNLESS they became an urbanized, advanced society first.
Czechs were one of the most urbanized societies in eastern Europe, if not all of Europe already in 19th century so religion was just fading away on its own, a society like that does not need religion, simply.
>You can have that and still be religious.
Rarely ever, it's more like an exception than a rule. Actually I don't know a country where it is a thing. Even in America or Israel their big cities are on average less religious than rural areas/small towns. The more people live in cities, the lower level of religiousness, almost always (or just always).
>That's not a good thing,
That's your opinion.

>>213609677
>I am pretty sure there was already a large difference in teachers' approach to students between Prussia and non-Prussia before WW2
Not that much. The basis of the school systems was developed wholesale in the german states during the 18th century and was awfully similar - like the three tiered school system. The prussian Wilhelm von Humboldt wanted to reform this system by making a humanist education available to everyone regardless of class but failed. Instead universities enjoyed greater fundings and freedoms and the other types of schools became nothing more than dedicated to the bare minimum of education for the peasants or the low level clerks of society. And this development occured all over the german states and lays the groundwork of the german education sytem to this day.
But in the GDR the state ruled even more supreme.

>>213610404
Not talking about görlitz btw, didn’t know what it looked like

>>213610404
>prefer cities like Heidelberg where old towns stay in style for 95% of buildings
so Quedlinburg in East Germany?

>>213610540
I heard it's the biggest German city that didn't suffer any WW2 damage (which actually tells you about the extent of bombing of Germany if the biggest city that avoided destruction is barely 50k town)

>>213610541
damn, that looks kino. It’s far from my home and the surroundings are boring. I’m never interested in driving through hesse and niedersachsen

>>213610339
germans will see this, encounter 0.1 crimes per year and vote for neo nazis

>>213610628
still it's kinda sad that a Pole needs to inform a west German about nice towns to visit in east Germany
you really don't know each other on both sides of the wall

>>213610470
>It’s just a smalls stretch of land you’re talking about

that stretch of land is part of both thuringia and franconia. so if there's a "big divide between franconia and thuringia", which side of the big divide does that stretch belong to?

i'm arguing entirely semantics here. by that metric your original claim makes no sense whatsoever because, again, franconia and thuringia overlap. you likely only associated franconia with bavaria and drachenlord due to low iq, not realizing the region covers significant parts of thuringia and hesse as well. if you had said "divide between thuringia and bavarian franconia" i would take no issue with it.

>>213610265
>capital
If you don't work for the government, some NGO or in some start-up Berlin is just some city.
>Dresden
Was only really important for Saxony. Sure if you are a history nerd interested in saxon history you will get your rocks off but this holds true for other special interests in history as well
>Görlitz
There are many other cities that suffered minor damage like Görlitz.

>>213610748
kek. Why are Bavarians like this?

>>213610628
>It’s far from my home and the surroundings are boring.

It's literally located on the edges of the Harz, which is about as good as it gets in terms of natural beauty in Northern Germany. Wernigerode and Goslar are close by too if you're in it for the Fachwerkkino.

>>213610780
uhhhh...so maybe Spreewald? Baltic coast? Muskauer Park? Sudeten?
so much to see in Ossiland...

>>213610901
I can only speak for the southwest, where there are more interesting destinations such as Colmar

>>213610901
>uhhhh...so maybe Spreewald?
just a bunch of swamps filled with mosquitoes
>Baltic coast?
might as well go to the med sea for better weather, not like it's more expensive than the baltic coast.
>Muskauer Park?
it's just a nice park dude
>Sudeten?
just one of many not very notable low-lying mountain ranges in germany, no USP

>>213606010
Your mama, essentially

>>213604143 (OP)
which one did hitler like most?

>>213611041
you're not fun at parties are you?

>>213608767
>do you mean 45 years was enough to erase the dialects that had been previously developing for 2000 years

You don't realize how easy it is to erase dialects and oral traditions for the face of earth, polski bro
All you have up do is literally have a generation of parents that won't teach it to its children, and that's it. Those kids won't grow up speaking it, they won't teach it to their kids, and the game is done. A regional dialect spoken since 1500 forever gone or recluded in the role of nice gimmick to use in country fairs

t. that's exactly what happened in North /central Italy during the 50s/60s, thanks to a mix of internal immigration, TV and radio making people more exposed to standard Italian and patents not wanting their kids to learn "poor" dialects and instead learn proper Italian.

>>213611245
okay but i didn't hear that east German dialects were burdened with some stigma that would make their speakers refuse to transfer them onto new generations, at least not in DDR era. That could only happen after 1990 when Saxon dialect was already started to be associated with poverty and just Ossism.

let's be honest both germany and poland would be better off if DDR was annexed by poland

>>213610901
>Spreewald
Yeah that one is pretty nice.
>Baltic coast
An der Noooordseeeeküstää
*klatsch*klatsch*klatsch*klatsch*
Am plattdeutschen Straaaand
>Muskauer Park
Never heard of it and it essentially just a stately garden. You can find those every few kilometers apart.
>Sudeten
Rhine Gorge

>>213611359
>An der Noooordseeeeküstää
Isn't the Baltic called "Ostsee" in German?
>Never heard of it and it essentially just a stately garden
Well, apparently I failed for their advertisement campaign then. They did invest a lot in that here.

>>213611245
40 years are also much more than needed, especially if you use resettlements. The dialect in my area has weakened significantly and it has zero prestige. 50 years ago, it was widely used and was complete enough to be used independently of Standard German. Now, it’s heavily mixed with the standard and among millennials and zoomers it is only really used as a fun gimmick you do with certain people.

>>213610043
Neither Wessis nor Ossis are very religious nowadays, it's just that more Wessis are registered at a church and this nominally Christian. Apparently it's a pain in the ass to leave a church, never had to though so don't know

>>213611492
>Apparently it's a pain in the ass to leave a church,
don't you have to pay a tax if you belong to a church? the question is actually how remaining in the church isn't a bigger pain in the ass

>>213611430
>the Baltic sea is literally called "Ossi" in German
i won't sleep this night

>>213611568
You can’t leave if you live rural. The local pastor knows you and your family. There is only one cemetery. Everyone knows people who are active there. They organise local events and festivals. And I’m protestant, it’s much more severe with Catholics.

>>213611568
Yeah it's 10% of your gross income.
Afaik it's kinda like getting out of an annoying subscription where they make you fill out a dozen forms to try to get you to give up, not bother, and just keep paying the tax out of laziness

For me they're all the same: uncivilized people in flip-flops and socks.

>>213611192
I'm a born and bread Estoid myself, and, ironically, have been to all the places you mentioned. I'm just playing devils' advocate. Sure you can have a good time visiting Eastern Germany. We've got some stuff. But a dude from Saarland could easily find similar stuff in his own vicinity instead.

>>213604143 (OP)
When I'm in Berlin I'm a Rhinelander.
When I'm in the Rhineland I'm a Berliner. When im in the north or south I'm whatever fits best for the situation.
T. Germohomo Mutt

I like Bavaria because Franzl Lang is great.

based on my DNA test, where should I live?

>>213611430
>Isn't the Baltic called "Ostsee" in German?
Yes. And I countered the Ostsee with the Nordsee (North Sea for the uninitiated. [But we are initiated. Aren't we PoleAnon? Members of Central Europe.]).
>>213611430
Eh, the city I live in has a botanical garden that dates back to the Electorate and Archbishop of Cologne and one of the pleasure gardens of said prince is also just a 15 min train ride away.

>>213611330

It doesn't matter even if there's no stigma, all it takes is a generational skip. This soil probably happened, I mean I can only imagine the state of post WW2 east Germany, I'm sure people erre just trying to survive and get along, cities were flooded with refugees and half were still in ruin, you had a mix of people from many different places living the same areas, it's only logical that dialects in that areas would slowly erode. And I'm 100% sure the DDR cadres only fastened this process, since a country that spoke the same language without difference was easier to control.
I mean, isn't that what happened in Poland too? And the same reason why Russian literally has no dialects, from Moscow to Vladivostok?

>>213611456

In Italy this process was already started at the beginning of the past century, due to the fact that all of nord Italy' s dialects were very similar (except for Venetian which is a thing on its own) and all came loosely from France, so they were easy yo mix and get bastardized together, and when the time came, people simply forgot about them. It's sad, sure, but I'm not too sad about it. The dialect of my city sounded very retarded, I don't really miss it, and im a strong believer that language should be free to evolve as it is, and if a language simply isn't useful anymore because it ran its course, so be it.

>>213610404
>It would piss me off to see the extent of the bombing damage.

I feel you bro. I'm going to holiday in Istria next week with my normie friends and I already know that my inner autist will be silently seething 24/7 at the look of all those nice italian towns filled with people who don't speak my language. There's not much we can do about it.

>>213611698
>The local pastor knows you and your family.
and? why would you care?
>There is only one cemetery.
I think even if the cemetery is formally operated by the local church still there is a law that obliges the priest to allow a funeral of a secular person there. At least that's how it works here but I'm pretty sure it's the same in Germany.
And at the end, if you're an atheist why tf would you care where you are buried? They can burn my body and throw my ashes into the trashbin if they want, I don't give a fuck.

>>213611737
>But a dude from Saarland could easily find similar stuff in his own vicinity instead.
i think it's worth visiting other places even for the same/worse things you have at home, just to meet another culture and simply your own countrymen from the other corner of the country
at least I do that in Poland

>>213608322
Thuringer Bratwurst is good stuff

>>213611709
>Yeah it's 10% of your gross income.
gosh, that's a lot, i didn't expect it to be that high
i would definitely do everything to sign out

>>213611966
too small, too familiar. He would get pissed, he would tell people to get pissed at you. The church organised events here are the only real gathering in town. Should I die early, he would have to manage my funeral

>>213611929
>I'm going to holiday in Istria next week with my normie friends and I already know that my inner autist will be silently seething 24/7 at the look of all those nice italian towns filled with people who don't speak my language.
Grisignana is still majority-Italian.

>>213611929
>I mean, isn't that what happened in Poland too? And the same reason why Russian literally has no dialects, from Moscow to Vladivostok?
No, especially not in Russia that didn't even have much population exchange after all.
In case of Poland, Russia (also France) it's just historical centralism and existence of one prestigious dialect spoken by the royal court everyone else tried to imitate and all other dialects being shunned as "peasant". Whatever happened later (communism, population transfers and so on) might have accelerated the process but it was already ongoing before.

>>213612010
I've been to all 16 Bundesländer myself (and all 16 Polish voivodeships!) but the truth is that most people have better things to do than go out of their way for some autistic pursuits of ethno-cultural experiences.

>>213611929
>my inner autist will be silently seething 24/7 at the look of all those nice italian towns filled with people who don't speak my language
ehhhh let's not pretend Slavs never lived there m8
they were always an inherent part of Dalmatia

>>213612265
>and all 16 Polish voivodeships!
didn't expect that, wow
I've only been to one German land, I hope to improve my score then

>>213612346
I'm stuck in the deepest pits of autism.

>>213612191

OK, same thing happened in Italy then. Southern dialects like neapolitan and Sicilians were much more resistant to this process because they're had much deeper roots in their respective regions, and people continued to use them and teach them to the following generations.

Although I'm fairly sure that Russia having no dialects is partly because of USSR, in fact a Russian anon told me that.

>>213612141
The Slovenian part yes, but the italo-Croatian is disappearing fast.
It's all old boomers expats, and people who learned it for tourism. In 50 years no Italian will be spoken there. I take comfort I the thought that if that land was still Italian, it would have become super urbanized and filled with ugly commie blocks and apartments from the economic boom of the 60s and it would be completely ruined. At least this way it maintained all its sovl

>>213612191
btw, in case of Poland it's an interesting thing because our capital was moved two times in history and accidentally every time it was moved to a different main province that spoke one of the main dialects (Great Poland > Lesser Poland > Mazovia), so the dialect spoken by the court/aristocracy, which eventually became the standard Polish, included linguistic features of three main Polish dialects, which probably facilitated its spread and adoption across the population, as it seemed familiar enough to everyone.

is it just a meme or are eastern germans actually ethnic slavs
>>213612517
this is so cool

>>213612307

I'm talking about Istria, whose western coast was always majority Italian, especially the cities. Dalmatia was always mostly Slavic. But both were always been very mixed societies anyway, there were even Germans and Serbian at some point, and making generalizations about it is dumb anyway.

>>213612517
You should have a blog or something, that's impressive.

>>213612621
Originally? idk. but many Prussians were mixed with slavs (in my family tree it is completely unclear whether the people understood themselves as Germans or Poles). Many of them then fled to East Germany.

>>213612567
>Although I'm fairly sure that Russia having no dialects is partly because of USSR, in fact a Russian anon told me that.

It's a common misconception, again, obviously communism and so called uravnilovka ("equalization", similar to German Gleichschaltung) had some influence on that but the dialects in Russia were already disappearing before because of influence from the court and the standardized dialect it used.
The only real Russian dialects survived with East Slavic people who lived outside of Russia, so the prestige of the Russian royal court could not reach them - means Belarussians and Ukrainians who lived in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. And this divergence went so far so they were eventually deemed separate languages.

In case of Poland it's similar - the only distinct Polish dialect was (and is) Silesian - because Silesia was outside Poland for most of history, and prestige of the Polish royal court did not have much impact there.

>>213612517

Based beyond belief
Come to /trv/ man, we have a lot of things to talk about

>>213612715
still blows my mind how after nazi germany fell like 3 million germans were chased out of their home countries and everyone was ok with it

>>213611917
jej

>>213612621
>is it just a meme or are eastern germans actually ethnic slavs
obviously is a mix of people, originally (from 6th century onwards) this land was settled mostly by Slavs but probably some "ancient" Germanics always lived there (though maybe assimilated to Slavness over time) but from like 10th century onwards both through colonization of ethnic Germans as well as germanization of Slavs, this land became predominantly German-speaking. Also there were always a lot of Poles in Berlin (Merkel's grandfather was a Pole from Berlin for example) and then the infamous Soviet rapes (though definitely their impact on Ossis' gene pool is exaggerated).

Generally I think it's pretty much the same like asking whether Italian-speaking population of Dalmatia were ethnic Italians or Slavs. It's kinda obvious they were ethnically mixed, though adopted the more advanced, Italian culture in most cases.

>>213612517
what did you do in northern Russia

>>213612688
>>213612621
Thank you. I did everything almost entirely by bicycle.

>You should have a blog or something
I sometimes post on the extraflags general on /int/, and rarely on /n/'s bike touring general. I'm too old to make soyfaces for youtube content.

>>213612732
I drop by every now and then in the autism map generals on /trv/, usually after my map gets an update.

>>213613128
I cycled to Naryan-Mar. I needed Nenets Autonomous Okrug for my map.

>>213612871
>and everyone was ok with it
idk what you mean by "everyone", Germans certainly weren't and these expellees had a huge impact on politics in west Germany, each political force had to conform to their views, at least in gestures. That's why west Germany did not recognize the Polish border until 1970 and until this year the Ostgebiete was always marked as "German territory under Polish administration/occupation" on every German map. Fun fact, they would even always include that territory in their weather forecasts, so in 1969 you had a guy telling Germans about the weather in Konigsberg or Breslau for the next weekend.

>>213613253
this is what we can call a true faustian spirit
how did locals react to you?

>>213611245
>>213611330
brother poland literally doesnt have any dialects left. you should know how this works.

croatia is going down this path too its mostly because of immigration to the richer north and the fact that politics used to be centered around the north, agriculture and industry but nowadays they are centered around tourism (south).

>>213612871
>and everyone was ok with it

Same. I guess people were just glad everything was over and trying to go on with their lives.

>>213613371
Reactions ranged between confused disbelief and genuine hospitality.

Pic related is a remote village on the Pechora river; I think it might have been Okunev Nos.

>>213612871
Well, territorial change was imminent, that was out of the question, Germany must have lost that land simply because the one who loses the war always loses land and obviously because Stalin wanted to expand his sphere of influence as much as he could

so, the alternative was to either keep several million Germans in Poland/Czechia, making it Yugoslavia 2.0, and probably finally leading to a bloody civil war, or let them move to Germany so they can live in a German ethnostate and use their excellent skills and work ethic to produce quality goods for the rest of the world

i think all things considered, the best choice was made

obviously, the explusion itself might have been conducted in a more civilized way but you also cannot expect that Poles and Russians would be particularly gentle with people who previously tried to genocide them

>>213613689
in what language did you communicate with them? i don't think a lot of people understand English in deep Russian countryside

>>213613803
I studied Russian specifically for that trip. I wouldn't brag about my Russian skills but I took it pretty seriously. It was tremendously useful because

>i don't think a lot of people understand English in deep Russian countryside

You're correct. I met a whole two people in my thirty days in Russia that were able to communicate in English. One was a cute but not overly friendly receptionist at a hotel in Syktyvkar. The other was a journalist of sorts who invited me to vodka (of course) in a hostel in Pereslavl-Zalessky.

>>213612621
>is it just a meme or are eastern germans actually ethnic slavs
There was lots of intermarrying in the east between slavs and German settlers, merchants, migrants etc., and a lot of slavs assimilated into german-ness(?), but we don't have any pure Slavic groups here (there's like 50.000 Sorbs left total, they're pretty much a non-factor)
So if you're a haplo Autist: yes theres slavic genes in the people there
If you're a normal person: who cares, arr rook same anyway, they speak German and look German so they are German

>>213614093
cool, i knew a person here who was also fascinated with Russia and did trips to remote parts of this country as well (before the war ofc)
though i guess to a Pole it doesn't feel as exotic as it does to a German, I think a person from Germany must have experienced real culture shock there

>>213614112
it's interesting. When I look at my family tree, everyone had two names (a polish and a german variant) and the language used at home was different for each family member depending on the married person. By the end of ww2 some fought on the german side, others were polish nationalists who got deported to Dachau.

>>213612871
Akshually it was ~10.000.000
In Wessiland we had a big lobby of displaced Germans from the east that tried to get the lands back, and up until reunification the official position was that the lands were occupied by Poland and should be returned like the other occupation zones. To get the allies' blessing for annexing the DDR the eastern claims had to be dropped
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Final_Settlement_with_Respect_to_Germany

>>213614225
>i guess to a Pole it doesn't feel as exotic as it does to a German
In all fairness, Poland is a LOT closer to Germany than to Russia in terms of looks and development these days.

>I think a person from Germany must have experienced real culture shock there
Not really. I had been to lots of places in Eastern Europe before, and Russia is still a civilized country after all. Crossing the border, knowing your in motherfucking Russia, felt pretty incredible though.

This was all in 2019 though. Then gorona spawned, and now there's the fighting in Ukraine. Happy I did it when it was still relatively easy and safe to do so. I figure the experience would be vastly different today, if it's possible at all.

>>213613287
We had an old astronomical chart in school and it included standard-to-local-time-conversion instructions for a bunch of German cities, and it includes Breslau, Königsberg, etc.
But generally, at least amongst zoomers, it's not at all in the public consciousness that those lands were German at some point. I even have Friends from Frankfurt/Oder and to them Slubice is and always was a polish city, no questions asked

>>213614608
>In all fairness, Poland is a LOT closer to Germany than to Russia in terms of looks and development these days.
depends where you are in Poland, I come from the eastern part and I obviously notice many similarities to Russia (though also differences as well)
>and Russia is still a civilized country after all.
But I guess even the endless space and no people in sight for dozens of kilometers must have been a bit weird to someone raised in a densely populated country like Germany.

>>213614396
is your family from Upper Silesia?

>>213614830
I'm trying to look up those birth places, and for some of them I can't even find anything. Seems like they lived near Posen.

>>213614993
Okay, that's actually pretty unusual because there were rather few Germans in Posen, especially outside big cities. Interestingly enough, Catholic Germans who lived there usually quickly assimilated into Poles, that's how the Bamber community appeared
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bambers
but protestant ones usually kept themselves separate from Poles so in 19th century virtually all Germans were protestant (while all Poles were catholic) and the religious difference played a big role in the ethnic conflict

>>213614791
>depends where you are in Poland, I come from the eastern part and I obviously notice many similarities to Russia (though also differences as well)
Even the most Eastern parts of Podlaskie voivodeship feel closer to Germany to me than any place I've been to in Russia.

>But I guess even the endless space and no people in sight for dozens of kilometers must have been a bit weird to someone raised in a densely populated country like Germany.
Wouldn't call it weird but it's very monotonous. Endless taiga and long, entirely straight roads with very little traffic, mostly wood transporters. It was an unusually cold and cloudy summer too, with temps going as low as -8 degress in Northern Koml.

>>213615264
>with temps going as low as -8 degress in Northern Koml.
did you sleep outside?

>>213615196
Apparently, my great grandfather was from Lower Silesia, of mixed Polish and German descend. He married another mixed girl near Posen, who was Protestant and spoke both Polish and German.

>>213604143 (OP)
Kingdom of Hannover. Rheinland Republic, Prussia, Greater Babaria

>>213615299
Often, yes, but I was not prepared for those temps. My sleeping bag was rated fort +8 degrees comfort temperature. Moscow was at the risk of snow in the middle of summer:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/07/25/snow-may-hit-moscow-region-next-week-while-europe-reels-from-heat-wave-a66573

Accomodation was also far and few between. District capitals like Kady, Sharya or Ilyinsko-Podomskoye usually feature one or two accomodation options, but the distance between them is often quite far, and if you get there too late in the evening, you're likely to get refused. The traffic on the roads in Russia's remote North is almost entirely wood transporters and truck drivers, and the guest-houses/hostels/hotels whatever are filled to the brim with them in the evening.

>>213615572
>my great grandfather was from Lower Silesia, of mixed Polish and German descend
interesting, there were very few Poles in Lower Silesia already in 19th century, basically only in the northern strip along the border with Greater Poland. fun fact is that a small part of Lower Silesia (the area with the towns of Bralin and Rychtal) was already assigned to Poland at Versailles in 1919, even though it historically didn't belong to PLC before the partitions, but that was because of that Polish community living there

>who was Protestant and spoke both Polish and German.
that's even more unusual because protestant German-catholic Pole marriages were extremely rare afaik (more because of the religious difference than ethnic one, back then people were very serious about it). And it's even more untypical for a protestant to speak Polish because usually being protestant meant full Germanization.

>>213615572
>>213615760
*That was in the early 20th century. My great grandfather got killed for resisting german occupation, despite supposedly being mostly of german descend. My great grandmother was also quite patriotic for Poland.

>>213615779
>My great grandfather got killed for resisting german occupation, despite supposedly being mostly of german descend. My great grandmother was also quite patriotic for Poland.
that's VERY unusual for a protestant family, i'd say even super-exceptional
there were pro-Polish (or just polonized) German protestants in the Russian and Austrian parts of Poland, but in Germany, especially in Posen, it was super rare, to the point so I wouldn't be surprised if your family was literally the only case like that

>>213615706
>, you're likely to get refused.
sad, but i hope they allowed you to at least sleep in your sleeping bag in the hall? or you could sleep in the train station building or something? can't imagine sleeping literally outside when it's -8 C.

>>213615849
based on a text that was given to me by a distant relative who is a genealogist, I can say for sure that she had a German last name, a Polish-Catholic grandmother, an apparently otherwise German-Flemish-Protestant family, lived near Posen, just like her other family members. My great grandfather from Lower Silesia, who must have been at least partly Polish, married her in the early 20th century. There is a chance that someone made a mistake and he was purely Polish. But he served in the German army and spoke German (dunno how common that was for Silesians during that time). Both were aggressively patriotic. Everyone moved to the Ruhr Gebiet after the war.

>>213615911
>but i hope they allowed you to at least sleep in your sleeping bag in the hall?
I didn't ask but in hindsight I should have.

>or you could sleep in the train station building or something?
I did that in Irayol actually, which is a railway stop on the way to Vorkuta. The waiting building for passengers operates non-stop, to my pleasant surprise.

>can't imagine sleeping literally outside when it's -8 C.
Without proper preparation you can't. I used a bunch of socks as makeshift gloves kek. You can manage to survive the night without frostbites, but falling asleep is largely impossible. That being said, -8°C was the absolute low in Northern Komi. On the way up North night time temps would usually be a few degrees below freezing. It was uncomfortable but somewhat manageable. My last really pleasant night was in Latvia though. Started waking up cold in Novgorod Oblast already.

I have done some winter touring since, and with good preparation you can ride and sleep comfortably in some ridiculous temperatures. I went to Norway last winter and temps went down to -19 °C in the Dovre Fjell. Coldest I slept outside was around -14 °C.

>>213616143
>But he served in the German army and spoke German (dunno how common that was for Silesians during that time).
For Lower Silesians it was already a default thing since they had no other identity than German, especially around WW2 era. As I said, these small parts of Lower Silesia with Polish population were already given to Poland in 1919.
Poles only lived in Upper Silesia (which includes the region around Katowice and Opole).

But the rule of thumb is that if someone was protestant, then he was German, or he became German even if he had some Polish roots before and that can be basically taken for granted, especially in Posen (could be different in East Prussia). The only debatable thing was with catholics because they could have Polish identity or German identity or mixed (just like with the language).

>>213607383
More iconic culture and aestethics

>>213616315
now i understand why Germans conquered Europe
this level of faustian spirit is unmatched

>>213616315
On that note, according to google maps they finally paved the stretch from Kerki to Irayol. Back in 2019 it was an awful washboard road.

>>213608767
>45 years was enough to erase the dialects that had been previously developing for 2000 years and form a new dialect
not that, but dialects were noticeably homogenized
A friend of mine lives in Thüringen just east of the border to Lower Saxony. The people in his village sound distinctly East German, but cross the border into the next village and you're in the deep West.

>>213616330
after looking through it again here is the likely scenario
my great grandfather was born in lower silesia (or someone confused the town name with a very similar one in south prussia which would also make sense) in the late 19th century and was Polish, but spoke German and served in the German army. He married my great grandmother who was at least 25% polish (catholic) but otherwise German Protestant. That means her ancestors crossed German-Protestants with Polish Catholics probably in rural South Prussia during the early 19th century.

>>213616571
>my great grandfather was born in lower silesia (or someone confused the town name with a very similar one in south prussia which would also make sense) in the late 19th century and was Polish, but spoke German and served in the German army.
what's the town name?

>>213616678
I think I figured it out now. The correct town was Brunow (Pleschen) near Posen https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kreis_Pleschen. The wrong town would be Brunów in Silesia.

>>213616858
>>213616678
But I don't know the details of the German Protestant/Polish Catholic intermarriage in that area. Dunno how common that was

>>213616858
ok Posen makes more sense
Brunów in Lower Silesia was extremely unlikely to have any Polish people already in 19th century or anyone even remotely related to Polishness, this area was already germanized in the middle ages

>>213616906
and it happened twice, since she was from a mixed/german dominant family but was ultimately baptized as a protestant with a German name, and then she married that Pole who I assume was Catholic.