Thread 49876912

Now that the dust is settled, it's time to go over what we have seen so far, keep in mind that the game hasn't been 100% translated yet.

FAQ:
>Is the game about AI
Yes, the overarching theme of the game is stated in plain text in your face that it is in fact about AI in the outside world.
No, this thread will not be about discussing AI besides what is told in the game and any posters doing so (pro/anti) are bad actors.
>What's the plot?
QRD: LoLK 2
>Are the demohus AI-Generated by the Lunarians
As much as you may hate the Lunarians, no they did not make AI Touhous. This was a theory that was made in the chaos of streamers beating the game live and sadly everyone got caught up in the hype and this theory was never corrected.

what the FUCK is their deal

>>49876912 (OP)
>QRD: LoLK 2
ZUN had to reuse LoLK plot to carry the whole AI influence theming into the game, but at least we got good snippets of Lunarian lore including what they did before they decided to live on the moon, and the story between Ariya and Yuiman and their conflict with the Lunarians are pretty nice.
It's miles better than Junko's backstory.

>>49877024
I think Junko's backstory was a smush because he crammed too much of a 'big thing in the past' into it and then justified the whole thing with drunk pretzel logic.

>>49877023
Ariya made them to piss you off and lure you to her to get you to beat her to piss off the lunarians and save Yuiman.

>>49877023
They're not wonder stones they're wounder stones. They exist to kill

>>49876912 (OP)
>no they did not make AI Touhous
I thought Nareko was confirmed to be one of the "AI" made by Yuiman?

>>49877281
It is nowhere in the omake, the entire theory hinged on the fact that the pyramid was a fake that the Lunarians made, which turned out to be entirely false. The "Pyramid" is actually Iwanagahime's shrine that was controlled by the Lunarians and not created by them. Nareko's job was probably to keep Yuiman inside so she wouldn't cause a ruckus inside of Gensokyo given that she was processing and sending Gensokyan data to the Moon (not that the brainwashing would allow her to anyways so maybe its for Iwanagahime).

>>49877281
??

>>49876912 (OP)
Yuiman can make AI people though and mistakes (you) for an AI construct in her route at one point. I'm firmly in the "bosses are AI' camp until proven otherwise.

>>49877297
>>49877297
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Asama_Yuiman
Her ability to cause things to be reborn by feeding them to her snakes is only ever relevant to process Gensokyo's data and "purify" it for the Lunarians.
AI is only important as it overflowed into her snakes and couldn't purify everything in time, causing her to crash.
There is nothing that says that she used the AI slop to make any Touhous, it was merely a workload issue

>>49877297
It's a fun theory at least

>>49876912 (OP)
>Yes, the overarching theme of the game is stated in plain text in your face that it is in fact about AI in the outside world.

Whoa careful anon, some retards here might pull an akshually on you and say that Touhou 20 was OBVIOUSLY about some broad anti-imperialism or anti-new tech even though ZUN already said that the game tackles AI SPECIFICALLY in an interview

>>49877364
>Touhou 20 was OBVIOUSLY about some broad anti-imperialism
But it is. FUCK LUNARIANS

>>49877364
But AI (specifically AI from the outside world) is directly namedropped in Yuiman's omake? But this is a trivial issue and will only invite bad faith arguments

>>49876912 (OP)
Toyohime's the culprit, right? So why do we go to stage 6 after we beat her up? What's the reason other than gameplay?

Mind u that the whole reason people create (and believe) that the first 3hu are created is because of AI background usage in game. If they are not genAIed or at least their memory are AI data implant, then there is no lore reason for using AI background at all.
The man really had audacity to make a critique about AI when he himself using AI.

>>49877431
I'm guessing it sorta goes in this order:
>Heroines investigate the sanctuary as its the only normal place, they find the pyramid.
>They find Yuiman which tips the heroines off about the Lunarians being involved
>They meet Toyohime at the Sea of Tranquility, which she tests them and sends them to Iwanaga
>Iwanaga Ayari is the one that actually stopped time in Gensokyo so she is the "culprit"

>>49877456
No no, it's different when ZUN uses AI because he's just using it as a tool which no one else has thought about doing.

>>49877364
AI is driven by datacentres, the biggest cybernetic computation powers driving it are quite imperialist, so...

>>49877456
>The man really had audacity to make a critique about AI when he himself using AI.
>>49877465
>he's just using it as a tool
Actual freakshow brain parasite drooling victims ITT

>>49877465
>>49877456
>>49877469
Uh oh you're breaking the rules of the thread that makes you guys bad actors. Fake fans!

>>49877478
Don't fucking mass quote me with these retards whiney passive aggressive cunt

>>49877480
You're not my mom

>>49877483
He's not but I am
and it's past your bedtime

>>49877484
It's only 11PM, the night is still young!

>>49877478
The fact is ZUN used a pretty controversial tool and made his game revolving around the theme of it. Not talking about AI while discussing this game is as silly as not talking about religion when discussing Morrowind, or not talking about owning and making animals fight when discussing Pokemon Black and White. When the games and their creators openly invoke these themes, they're going to be talked about. Refusing to do so is undermining the creative's own efforts.

I think ZUN's commentary on AI in this game is incredibly underwhelming, and he doesn't say anything new that hasn't been said before, even by himself. The only special thing about this use of it is the discussion of data harvesting and the Lunarians being added to the mix. His own use of AI however muddles most of his commentary criticizing it, and his claim that he's "owning the AI by using the AI as a tool" is just silly and pretentious. The AI assets used in the game added nothing to the experience.

>>49877498
>His own use of AI however muddles most of his commentary criticizing it
The game is incredibly pro-AI though. The entire main theme is about accepting change to the extent that staying the same is equivalent to death. Gensokyo accepts anything. Ariya tells Reimu that resolving the incident means taking in the new information from the outside world, but it's up to her how that will affect things.

>>49877535
The fact that I've seen people say this game is pro-AI and anti-AI shows how messy of a message ZUN is trying to say really is.

>>49877535
Think anon means the previous commentary with Zun saying in interviews that using gen AI would take the fun out of creating things. This was during UDoALG which funny enough has AI gen backgrounds anyway.
>>49877542
The message bogs down the story honestly. The dramatics between Ariya, Yuiman and the lunarians is interesting and could probably lead to other events in the future and instead it's being overshadowed by AI hysteria.

>>49877542
I don't think he has a message, he's just playing around with how AI would be used in the setting

>>49877542
There is criticism of misusing and over-trusting AI, but in terms of using it as a tool with the right intentions, the game seems entirely positive.

>>49877542
Alternatively, it says that it's very new, few people talking about it have actually played the full game, and most people are going off of second-hand information.

An interesting thing about Yuiman existence is that she was a human who was granted divinity on par with a real god, so her species is a God-human. So divinity indeed can just be given, not necessarily earned

>>49877579
Sanae is something similar iirc, they're both referred to as seperate things though (古神人 vs 現人神)

>>49877542
>how messy of a message ZUN is trying to say
It must be their first ZUN rodeo then because he has never said anything clearly.

OP should have made it a rule to only talk about the lore if you beat the game. As in, 100%, every single ending. If you can't even do that, then you're just a shitty /v/ tourist looking to shit up the thread.

>>49877601
Sanae is actual descendant of a god, Yuiman is a human who was granted divinity by other god

>>49877579
I don't really know how to interpret that seeing as Yuimankoku was located in the world of gods. I'm not sure she was originally human.

trvth nvke

I really really like the new direction FW put out. From the basic lore alone, the game basically flat out told us there used to be an ancient kingdom where Gensokyo is now who worship the god of Youkai Mountain (previously Yatsugatake)
Coupled with what happened with Mizuchi, it seem ZUN is now comfortable enough to start exploring the past of Gensokyo, history of the land, and all the event happened before the barrier. It is a direction I am excited about

>>49877628
Sanae's divinity only gives her miracle powers, using miracle powers makes retards think she's a god so it makes her a god through belief
Yuiman has divinity which is granted to her by another god without the need for fancy tricks or being the child of a god
So they're similar but not the same, both are human gods

>>49877685
Sanae's divine blood* not divinity
There's lots of different ways to become a god in Shintoism and specifically people becoming gods isn't anything new or special, they've had human gods for a long long time

So is the story anti-AI? Do you think ZUN used AI on purpose to generate the reaction it did?

>>49877695
He wanted to use the current thing and the actual message is irrelevant, the story is supposed to be a fun concept based around a thing that's currently on everyone's mind
If you ask me the message is that overuse of AI pollutes everything (including the AI itself) but it shouldn't be shunned and discarded since it can be useful, which is pretty barebones for a message

>>49877695
No he used it because he thought it would be cool to use actual AI-gen texture to depict a facility specialized in storing random mass of data
Pretty sure there’s no message here beside “Yeah it fit the setting so I use it”

>>49877701
Yeah fair enough, it's a pretty vague message that anyone can basically modify to suit their beliefs to some extent.
It's not like I come to 2hu for super deep social analysis, it's always pretty surface level like this, no need for it to be more.

>>49877712
But he used it for outside the pyramid too so it doesn't work in that aspect. I hope we find out what textures were and weren't AI soon so we can see if they were used intentionally in places or not.

>>49877716
I mean, turn out it fit the theme of the game anyway, he already said he WANTED to do it considering the theme of the game so you can be sure it was all intentional

I believe Iwanaga was rejected for marriage because she had fat tits and that's a no-no in ancient japan

>Just the smallest of impurity can threaten Lunarians existence
>Their entire capital now reveal to be depended entirely on the pyramid filtering Earth energy into purity that they can use to sustain themselves
>If the pyramid encounter problems like in FW they are just fucked
Nah bruh I gave this fuck ass Capital 5 more years before it collapsed

Bust size chart when?? I feel like everyone in this game except for Nareko and Chimi will be huge.

>>49877812
think she’s flat as fuck and a “handsome woman” and was rejected for being boyish. konohasakuyahime will be the opposite with huge tits and long hair

>>49877812
>>49877884
I want to date my cute handsome unchanging goddess that looks like a boy!

>>49877884
Anon it's common knowledge that Iwanaga's mountain peaks were much much bigger than Sakuyahime's, her breast envy got annoying enough that she even left Mt. Fuji to get away from it

>>49877844
I don't think it's their only way to harness kagare free sustenance but it probably was big one yeah

>>49877023
Death Pyramid, canonically the strongest being in all of Gensokyo.

>>49877900
maybe it was a butt size competition.

>>49877431
Yachie is the culprit in 17 but we go to btfo Keiki as well
Sagume and Doremy are culprits in 15 but Junkers is still the final boss
The culprit of 19 is *the first final boss* chronologically

>>49877542
or that people who would make those judgments off barely-translated scraps aren't exactly media literate

>>49878032
Of course not, when people refer to peaks they refer to things that stick out with a tip

>>49877844
Now that Yuiman is no longer brainwashed, isn't the Pyramid eventually going to stop working, anyway? Unless Yuiman voluntarily chooses to keep working for the people who imprisoned and brainwashed her...

>>49878245
The pyramid is still Iwanagahime's shrine, plus she loves the pit of four seasons so it's probably going to be her place of residence

>>49877626
>you're just a shitty /v/ tourist looking to shit up the thread
fuck yeah I am, what are you going to do about it, cry?
the mods aren't on your side anymore, touhoufags

>>49878245
Well that will be problem for the next game
For now Lunarian escaped their crisis, Yuiman got freed from her slave duty, and like Toyohime said: Eirin will probably figure something out

I read back on Mokou’s impressions of Iwanagahime and either ZUN remembered or he got lucky. Mokou described Iwanagahime as plain-looking and are generally chill, I can totally see it in her design now that it exist
The annoying one is Sakuyahime, per Mokou’s word

I'm glad more people here realize ZUN like to put real-life social issues into the plot only because he likes it in a way like someone would watch Flintstones, and not because he want to spread some kind of heavy opinionated message the drama-seeking twitterfags want so hard to believe.

>>49878321
A lot of game dev do this, so not like it’s anything new

The thought of Lunarians being able to extract data and create the ultimate danmaku machine is terrifying, this pyramid have the entirety of LoLK coded in it

So Chimi's cameo in Marisa's ending has her saying that she created Nareko, or at least she thinks she did.

>>49878315
Mokou never met Iwanagahime; it's Keine who talks about their mythology and relation to Yatsugatake.
And while Mokou and Keine do describe Sakuyahime as being beautiful, they don't say anything about Iwanagahime's appearance, which is instead brought up by Akyuu in Forbidden Scrollery.

>>49878505
Man it is kind of weird that we are getting a new character who have actually been mentioned and described in past works. Maybe I should go through official content again to see who else was referenced, maybe we gonna get the next game final boss among them

>>49877535
ZUN could literally make the ability of the final boss be "refusing the world to change" and its dumbass secondary basement dwelling players would still not get it

>>49878549
It's because the "change is good and stagnation/living in the past is bad" message (which has, to a lesser extent, been featured in the recent previous works too) clashes with the early games' themes and aesthetic. This drives people mad because ZUN apparently isn't allowed to change his opinions.

>>49878549
Well if they actually play the game then they wouldn’t make shit up

Seems like the next game will have to do with the Outside World according to the small conversation between Reimu and Ariya in the endings
>>49877431
I take it more like her also wanting to put an end to the pyramid because it started negatively affecting the Lunarians but wanted to see if Reimu/Marisa could handle it. Seems like the pyramid predates her current position.

>>49878617
No way people actually get some deep message off the early games. Even more retarded that they think Gensokyo will never be affected by Outside World, when it was established that Yukari bring stuffs from outside in all the time

>>49878549
That point gets a little muddled when the final boss was clearly correct in telling the Lunarians to fuck off.

>>49877431
We were sent by Eirin, using the stone Misumaru created to guide our way to the pyramid
Toyohime basically temporarily halt the time as a way to attract Eirin attention and hope she do something about the pyramid overloading

>Lunarian get into deep shit
>Eirin sent Reimu and co over to clean it up for them
>Lunarian get into deep shit again
>Eirin once again sent Reimu and co over to clean it up
Welcome back LoLK

>>49878632
Because they wanted the power that she is denying them. And wanted for heroes to succeed. More over even her stoneclad heart moved a little at the end of the day

>>49878629
Way too many secondaries see Gensokyo as a banal "reject modernity, return to tradition" type of fantasy, because that's what it appears on the surface without actually playing the games and learning that it's much more nuanced than that.

>>49878640
That's her solution to everything!

>>49878544
A big one that's named but never appeared is Tenma, but that one might actually just be a male tengu and thus Megumu is the biggest tengu you'll ever see

>>49878676
ZUN probably knows he can't just drop THE tengu any time soon. We've all seen how rabid tengufags can get.

>>49878662
It’s not necessarily one and another, everyone should read the Hecatia interview again, especially now that we got Iwanagahime who shed more like on the concept of “unchanging”
An actual unchanged civilization would be Lunar Capital, they are those who chose the path of Iwanagahime, long lasting and unchanged, but are stagnant and unremarkable
Gensokyo have a dilemma of wanting to maintain a balance forever, but they are not Lunarian, they change constantly, and that is what make the land lively, even if the youkai want to believe otherwise

Now that I look back at this we got bamboozled, that is not an eye, that is a stone (goddess) being buried deep under a civilization

>>49878708
The moon sure does have a ton of Kyoto energy.

>>49878662
Yeah, it's "reject tradition, embrace modernity", a much clearer message.

It seems that the one who created and placed Nareko in the pyramid to make sure no one would come out of it was Chimi

>>49878822
technically from the way she words it, she might've made the original jizo statue that became Nareko, but it's not like she was the one who gave it life or told Nareko to guard the pyramid.

>>49876912 (OP)
>No, this thread will not be about discussing AI besides what is told in the game and any posters doing so (pro/anti) are bad actors.
This is like when someone posts an obvious crypto scam on /biz/ and then when you tell people that it's a scam they say YOU'RE JUST POSTING FUD YOU'RE A BAD ACTOR
Fuck you, OP. ZUN really tried to excuse his use of generative AI by making the story about generative AI being bad as if that's some extremely clever solution. This story is going to look fucking stupid in five years when the world's moved onto the next fad.

>>49878833
That feels like it would make sense given the whole real world statue thing.

>>49878849
>Five years
Nah, give it two... Or less, to be honest the story is already extremely retarded.
At least Jo'on selling NFTs and Aya making fake news had some kind of punchline.
This is not only an entire mainline game dedicated to "Current thing" but also it's painfully obvious ZUN has a poor idea about AI as a whole.
He mixes a bunch of different elements vaguely related to our current understanding of "AI" (or better said LLM/Generative Algorithms/etc) and the result is something that misses it's own point.
Either ZUN is just an easily impressionable old man or he just made a whole game to cope with his own desire to use AI because he is a lazy nigger

>>49877431
>>49878151
Adding to this
Isn't Satori Okuu's boss and yet we go beat her up?

>>49877634
Lmao

>>49878626
>Seems like the pyramid predates her current position.
I know I will get called a moonie apologist, but please trust me that when I say that this all coming from an unbiased point of view.

After reading about this game's plot, especially the part with Yuiman being supposedly kidnapped, enslaved and tortured by Lunarians, I was very surprised to see the Lunarians suddenly be so outright evil. It's not common knowledge because a large majority of the fandom doesn't read the printworks, novels and most of the ingame dialogue, but the Watatsukis are actually extremely nice in all of the media that they show up in. In SSiB, they secretly take Eirin's side and help hide both her and Kaguya despite the rest of the Capital wanting to capture them. Toyohime's encounter with the rocket crew also quickly becomes non-confrontational (even if said "confrontation" was just self-defense) once she realises their intentions, and she even agrees to spell card battle rules even though she could effortlessly kill them if she so-wished. Cage in Lunatic Runagate especially shows the Watatsukis as being very compassionate and strictly against violence. Sagume, too, is showcased as being very non-confrontational and outright stating that the moon has no interest in invading the Earth or anything of the sort and that they only did so as a last resort due to being invaded themselves (and even that was a part of a much bigger plan which involved the "invasion" of Gensokyo purposefuly failing).

What I'm trying to say with all of this is that translations and fan-theories are still very rushed right now so it's wise not to make too many assumptions. The "watatsukis bad" route seems to be the easiest to understand, most widely propagated interpretation, yes, but it's also the most contradicting according to what we already know about them.

The decisions regarding the pyramid and Yuiman predating the Watatsukis' positions of power makes much more sense, especially considering that at the time of SSiB it appears that neither of them were in particularly powerful positions and the construction of the Pyramid far predates those events.

>>49878849
>>49878943
I'll never tire of 'artists' who can no longer profit as much as they used to of drawing characters being raped and having degrading sexual acts, seething so much at a non-sentient tool that they start answering themselves and acting like veritable hatebots. How cruel and ironic it must be for those machines, to see humans waste their unvaluable priviledge of consciousness on such a pointless, disgusting behaviour, and all for a worthless currency....

>>49879552
>Toyohime's encounter with the rocket crew
Yorihime's*, my bad.

>>49879554
Not and artist Schizo-san. Also Weird fetishistic artists are some of the less impacted by AI.
AIslop gets worse the more specific or niche your desired gen is, and if you want a character with less than 1k pics on booru you are pretty much fucked.
Next time try to target Patreonface artists or something

>>49879552
I see it as the Watatsukis merely upholding the status quo but because the rest of the Lunarians are assholes, they have to keep it up just to maintain the peace and stability of the Lunar Capital.
It was never stated to have been the Watatsukis that brainwashed and enslaved Yuiman but Toyohime was placed as the administrator. To give her some credit, she didn't push Yuiman to her limit and rebooted her out of genuine compassion for her plight.

>>49878151
Yes, but in 17, Yachie outright tells you that the culprit is elsewhere (even if it's a lie).
In 15, Sagume also tells you that the culprit is elsewhere.
In 20, I don't know why we go to Ariya because the dialogue isn't translated yet, that's all.

>>49879434
In 11, Satori isn't really the culprit, she's just a negligent owner. The actual "incident" in the game is the vengeful spirits escaping through the surface through Geysers, which is directly stated to be Orin's fault, but even then it's also revealed that Orin did that on purpose to get the protagonists' attention to go beat up Okuu before her power trip got out of control and she scorched the surface alive, so in reality Okuu's the actual culprit.
...except she isn't, because Kanako's the one who gave Okuu the power of the sun.

>>49877685
>>49877689
>Sanae's divinity only gives her miracle powers, using miracle powers makes retards think she's a god so it makes her a god through belief
Name me a human that can do miracles (that isn't powered by a god like Reimu, or directly has divine blood, like Sanae). Sanae herself believed that she was a normal human, so she got the "arahitogami" title by humans when she said she was just a mortal like them, just able to do miracles. It's just that later on, it was confirmed that Suwako was in fact her primogenitor, making her effectively a demigod

>>49879552
>I was very surprised to see the Lunarians suddenly be so outright evil
I agree and as someone who hates KKHTA I fear that this game will only serve to further fuel the "WATATSUKIS EVIL LOL" meme that secondaries keep falling for and think is canon.

>>49879552
>>49879633
Even if the Watas are "nice" they still actively partake in and support a genocidal regime.

>>49879643
Things aren't always that black and white, anon. Kaguya was also a princess and they had no issues banishing her and then even sending hunting parties after her when she went into hiding. The Watatsukis probably don't have much of a choice regarding their current positions. best they can do is make a compromise and try to secretly go against it here and there, as they have been.

>>49879552
Everything you've written is propaganda, deceit, lies, and nonsense. It's incredible, really. I'm clapping.
I guess those guys weren't wrong when they said that the first few immediate threads subsequent to the games release are the best, and everything else is garbage, as usual.
Seriously, well done.

>>49878849
Ok

>>49879552
Yeah, people forget that the Watatsukis aren't some kind of supreme leaders of the Moon.

>>49879629
I mean, yeah, Sanae is a demigod (the offspring of a god), that's not contentious, it's just that she's also perfectly human besides. Her godliness wouldn't mean anything and she'd be an ordinary human (who can do miracles) if no one believed in her. That's what it says. Essentially just a magical human like most of the human cast is.
Yuiman steers in the other direction, however, doesn't she? God-Human, 50/50? Is she able to live fine without belief, or does she get significantly weakened without it? If she's fine without it, then she'd be human.
An important distinction between the two is what ZUN lists them as, for Sanae, it's just human, for Yuiman, it's god-human, and I'm not sure how to interpret that

>>49879552
Yeah, I agree. There is a case for every other Lunarian like Chang'e and whoever else is in the upper hierarchy to be evil but the Watatsukis are primarily loyal to Eirin who is pragmatic and overall pacifist. The sisters are just cogs in the machine. It'd be way more interesting if ZUN made a new novel or manga with Reisen 2 as the protagonist that shows more about Lunarian society.

>>49879982
>Reisen 2
Anon, I know this might hurt, but...
ZUN basically called her a non-character recently

>>49879982
>pragmatic
*Evil
There's no reality where Eirin "murder always works" Yagokoro isn't a bad person.

>>49879982
...yeah, gonna have to agree with >>49880075 here, if there's anything CiLR showed us it's that the Watatsukis are actually NICER than Eirin.

>>49880026
She's still their pet. I was more talking about a second person story focusing around the sisters through her POV. But I guess she's now moon rabbit Daiyousei.

>>49879552
Even if the Watatsuki's are 'nice', Toyohime is directly stated to be the manager of the pyramid's data collection stuff, so either she was directly involved in Yuiman's enslavement, torture, and brainwashing, or she's at least complicit in knowing about it and not setting her free before now. I'm not even certain if setting Yuiman free is part of Toyohime's plan or if it's something Eirin threw into her negotiation with Ariya to sweeten the deal. The latter strikes me as more likely because Eirin finding the special trick to make the immovable Iwanaga's heart shift slightly seems more likely.

>>49880139
In her position, wouldn't setting Yuiman free be considered treason? Rebooting her is probably the only thing she can really do without pissing off the Moon Capital. Eitherway, given that she's loyal to Eirin first, Moon Capital second, if Eirin was the one who planned this then she agrees with it.

>>49880139
>The latter strikes me as more likely because Eirin finding the special trick to make the immovable Iwanaga's heart shift slightly seems more likely.
It'd be a pretty hard sell otherwise, yeah. "You should help us, the people you hate and who enslaved your priestess, for absolutely no benefit to yourself instead of letting us get fucked by our own hubris", is not a very convincing motivation.
>>49880179
>In her position, wouldn't setting Yuiman free be considered treason?
Treason against an evil regime is the morally correct thing to do, and being complicit in their misdeeds, especially at such a high level, doesn't excuse your own responsibility just because you fear punishment.
The Lunarian grunts likely aren't aware of what's actually going on, since we know that things like Junko are a closely guarded secret only known amongst the Lunarian elite, but Toyohime does know about the real situation so she's knowingly perpetuating evil.
And I wouldn't be surprised if Eirin was the one to engineer the whole system to begin with, given how much of the Lunar Capital she's responsible for, though she obviously wouldn't bring that up to Ariya.

>>49880260
>Treason against an evil regime is the morally correct thing to do
Not if you know it'll result in both you and your sister getting evicted, locked up and hunted down for eternity. Why go for a single impulsive, treasonous act that gets you caught if you can instead keep doing several more calculated ones from behind the scenes? You need to look at this with your brain, not your heart.

>>49877498
>Not talking about AI while discussing this game is as silly as not talking about... owning and making animals fight when discussing Pokemon Black and White.
I've never actually seen this outside of making fun of PETA. People typically just discuss the game's contents and relation to previous and future games.

>>49879888
>it's just that she's also perfectly human besides
Being a semi-divinity isn't perfectly human, not at all. Would you say Hercules was a perfectly human?
>Her godliness wouldn't mean anything and she'd be an ordinary human (who can do miracles) if no one believed in her.
According to the canon, this is not the case
>Sanae possesses the ability to invoke miracles due to her divine heritage
'Living god' has a wide meaning, being able to be used towards children of gods with humans, and pure humans considered gods. One can think about what a human has to do to be considered a living god, because Reimu could be considered one, but that's not the point here. Sanae is the demigod type of living god, so she's not a human, not a normal one at the very least
>and I'm not sure how to interpret that
ZUN does mess things up quite a lot with taxonomy. Always take whatever he says with caution

Delivering OC for this anon
>>49873142
>>49877756
https://files.catbox.moe/701mvs.png

>>49882378
>paizuri under dress
>dick bulge
YESSSSS
ITS NOT A REAL PAIZURI UNTIL THE TIP OF YOUR DICK IS RUBBING AGAINST HER DRESS

So basically the slop wasn't avant-garde 4D chess social commentary after all, and ZUN just makes games only for the sake of profits now?

>>49882751
ZUN is just lazy and lacks passion, prepare for Touhou 21 to also have AI even if the game has nothing to do with it.
Th20 basically killed the few remaining bits of Touhou's unique visual language.

>>49879554
>>49879590
>Also Weird fetishistic artists are some of the less impacted by AI.
This.
Those most annoyed are the ones that only do illustrations devoid of creativity, and asset makers, AI is closer to replacing them than even the most talentless of deviantart and pixiv.

>>49878943
Artists talking about AI without even knowing what is the halting problem or a transformer is like an electrician that doesn't know what a chord is and only listens to Imagine Dragons making a music theory course. It's pathetic and no one calls them out for it lol.

>>49879825
KKHTA and its' consequences have been a disaster for the Touhou fandom.

I avoided looking anything up and just got a few endings and tried a few extra runs...
Got really excited about finally predicting something right in Touhou (Iwanagahime appearing since the incident sounded related to her when I read it in the trial)
A character reappearing was unexpected (expected the moon tho), especially one from a manga. I thought at first ZUN would troll a bit and make the stage 5 boss change instead of the 4th one, making Yorihime Reimu's boss. It would have been too cool, but it's still nice to see a character return.
Story seems to be curious from what I got, but I still have a lot of endings to get.

>>49878315
>either ZUN remembered or he got lucky.
Reminds me of the fun little detail of Toyohime having an aura similar to Eirin's in IN, only that Eirin has purple in her aura(Maybe the kegare)

>>49877657
Same. Wish my Japanese was better, snce there are some fun things like the kanji for Shen(clam/dragon youkai) kanji being used for the word mirage, because some dragon breathes fake towers and it got mixed up with clams in writing or something:
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%9C%83%E6%B0%97%E6%A5%BC
Also funny to see this words in the history section:
>山海経
Shanghai Jing
>蓬萊山
Mt. Hourai
>蜃(みずち)
Mizuchi (the dragon, so not sure if Mizuchi is gonna be related to the extra boss or mirages somehow)
>竜宮
Dragon Palace
>娑伽羅の姫
Toyotama hime aka Toyohime

>This can already be updated
Lmao, doing enough we will get the entire family here

>>49883433
>Yori married Toyohime's son
Yorihime a shotacon?

>>49883433
It's clearly much less common of an occurrences, but this has me wondering what other foreign deities might crop up in the future, and if they do, what criteria they need to fill to be relevant.

>>49883433
Eirin is/was married? And had kids??

>>49883592
Her mythological counterpart was. But keep in mind Touhou characters aren't 1:1 with their mythological basis.

>>49883608
Sure, I like hag and alone Eirin over MILF Eirin

>>49883358
yup YUUUUUUUUUUUP broken by heart-throbbing kino

>>49883708
kill yourself

>>49883592
The mythological Omoikane, yes, but this chart depicts her sister as Ninigi's mother, which is confirmed canon by CiLR.
Eirin's own status in canon is unconfirmed (though she's obviously Kaguya's mother).

>>49883583
There's no criterias, but I figure there not many of them left after Japan canonized their pantheon via Kojiki and Nihon Shoki. Every god not mentioned there are basically lost to time

>>49883708
kill yourself

>>49883592
Not in Touhou, and in the chart she is just daughter of Takamimusubi

>>49883556
I don't think it's clear in mythology when exactly that happened, so I guess that depends. Would she really be a shotacon if she didn't have those kinds of thoughts about him until he was an adult? Also probably worth pointing out Yorihime had 4 sons, so either she got super horny for him after they married, or she thought she had some kind of duty to perform.

>>49883556
Maybe.

>>49876912 (OP)
>AI... IS LE BAD!!! *uses it anyway*
Not today, ZUN.

Need Lunarian eroge where you play as the son of Toyohime

>>49878728
Fugg

KEK This came out so wrong
>Hakurei Shrine is the only truth

>>49882378
Based

people complaining about AI in 2hu 20 will never not be funny to watch seethe
the funniest part is that they're more of an old man yelling at cloud person than ZUN ever was

people trying to defend about in 2hu 20 will never not be funny to watch seethe
the funniest part is that they're more oblivious about AI than ZUN ever was

jesus you could at least try to be comprehensible anon

Now that we know Sanctuary is a land that remained the same since thousand of years ago. It made a lot of sense that
>Biten was able to find a lost method of making alcohol there
>The youkai of Sanctuary actively refuse changes
>The forest is inaccessible for modern youkai

It's funny how Seiran spoiled the plot of the game back in UDoALG.

>>49884850
Why would anyone defend the AI assents in the game in the first place? Those are quite literally a net negative.
They look ugly, people don't like them, the game has no noticeable quality upgrades in other areas to justify the use of AI, and the story suffers from the inclusion of the AI subtext.
There's nothing positive about it at all.

>>49885172
Share it.

>>49885172
Best bunny come through as always

>>49885288
When she beats Biten:
>Guess what, your birthplace is used as a passageway to the Lunar Capital. That's why it's called a sanctuary.

>>49885261
>the game has no noticeable quality upgrades in other areas
lol, lmao
this is one of the most well received Touhou games since 17, arguably even 15
you don't play the games
>story suffers from the inclusion of the AI subtext
It doesn't. There's barely even any AI "subtext". It's one part of one part of the plot, it's not even 5% of the game.
People are mostly just butthurt just because of the "morality" that's it's in there in the first place. People are acting more of a embittered old man than a drunkard married man with kids that's nearing 50. How pathetic.

>>49885299
Its kind of weird Biten isnt featured in Reimu's ending at the very least and instead we have Zanmu who is still, harrasing Reimu for some reason for Green1

>>49885172
>Rabbit leaking classified info again
Lucky they left the army

SEIRAN NYO

>>49885261
No one is defending it, people just have better thing to talk about. Nobody have the time and energy to be angry about everything

>>49885302
>this is one of the most well received Touhou games since 17, arguably even 15
You have any facts to back that up? Because this feels like you are talking out of your ass.
The release of Th20 was full of controversies even if we ignore the AI, ZUN in general has been losing a lot of the goodwill of his community not only because of his lawyer but also from being outed as a hypocrite with his opinions about Gacha (this recently gained traction in Japanese Twitter so you can't use "le weastern" as scapegoats)
And the artwork count is also pitiful, outside of Toyohime nobody cares about the girls from this game (and you can't argue is because of how new the game is since according to you this game is extremely "well received")
What are your bases to label this as "well received"?
>There's barely even any AI "subtext".
True, "subtext" implies a degree of care, the AI shit here is as blunt as a rock crushing your skull.
>It's one part of one part of the plot, it's not even 5% of the game.
ZUN directly name-drops AI in the omakes, you are either intentionally disingenuous or just retarded to not see how this entire game is a sloppy attempt at making a commentary on AI.
And the worst part is that the main conflict between the Moonsluts and The stage 6 girl is interesting but again it is partially ruined because it serves the retarded narrative of this game.
>People are mostly just butthurt just because of the "morality" that's it's in there in the first place.
Well none of my arguments had anything to do with Morality at all, you can oppose AI for being low quality slop that attracts the worst kinds of people.
>>49885334
Jeetbro, you sound chronically online people are talking about different aspects of the game, but the game is literally about AI so of course that's the main thing everyone will end up arguing about.
Even then you can see in this very thread that there's still other stuff to talk about.

>>49885452
Love the seething retard calling the most tame reply "chronically online"

>>49885461
That's how it feels when you reply with "Nobody have the time and energy to be angry about everything"
Someone who just post like a normal human wouldn't reach that conclusion because they understand people can post, go on with their day, and post again later.
A chronically online freak will assume the people criticizing something are 24/7 complaining because they themselves are 24/7 reading such things.
It doesn't help that you are arguing that in a thread full of people talking about other aspects of the game, the complaining post are a minority here.

>>49885452
>You have any facts to back that up? Because this feels like you are talking out of your ass.
90% of people that played the game. Jaimers has been a sour grape in the past Touhou releases and even he likes 20 quite a bit.
Twatter controversies mean absolutely nothing, and you bringing up gacha out of nowhere utterly just means you consume drama constantly.
>nobody cares about the girls from this game (and you can't argue is because of how new the game is since according to you this game is extremely "well received")
What kind of retarded argument is this LMFAO
>True, "subtext" implies a degree of care, the AI shit here is as blunt as a rock crushing your skull.
subtext implies it's trying to say something in the first place. I think your brain is the one that's hard as a rock here.
>ZUN directly name-drops AI in the omakes
Yep, as a part of data, which is one part of one part of this game's plot.

>>49885452
You're wrong.

The first Lunatic clear I found
>The end screen is the peak of the pyramid pointing against the Moon
Kino

>>49885485
>90% of people that played the game
>Source my ass
Ok so you are indeed just making shit up.
>Twatter controversies mean absolutely nothing, and you bringing up gacha out of nowhere utterly just means you consume drama constantly.
This broke into the mainstream in The japanese community, of course a western secondary like you wouldn't know about that in the first place.
>>49885486
Prove it

>>49884850
>>49884987
ZUN is completely unfazed by AI unlike the seethers
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Unfinished_Dream_of_All_Living_Ghost/Omake

>>49885497
All of this >>49885452, is wrong.

>>49885500
This game (and his cope about "I'm using AI to defeat AI!") quite literally proves otherwise

>>49885497
Do you think there's emperical evidence for liking a Touhou game or something?
Oh, right, there is.
Your twatter controversies continue to mean nothing.

>>49885514
Mindbroken

>>49885516
OH so now the "Western fanbase of Steam" matters huh?
Funny how that works

>>49885516
And that's without mentioning all the Japanese who bought it physically and are talking about it. These /v/niggers should eternally shut the fuck up already.

>>49885523
>No argument
It's okay if you like the game anon, nobody is forcing you to hate it, but the game is only second to Th19 in how shit it is

>>49885526
>Western fanbase of Steam
Why are you putting that in quotes, no one mentioned it in this thread.
You OK?

>>49885533
Prove it.

>>49885526
Do you know what steam is?

>>49885514
Absolutely mindbroken
ZUN will continue to use AI as a tool (like it is) while you eternally seethe about it in your retirement home, old man absolutely screaming at clouds

>>49885536
Already did, and the burden of proof is now on you
>>49885538
I'm just pointing out how you niggers dismissed Steam because "it's full of western pigs" and now you try to pass 281 reviews on it as proof of Th20 being"extremely well received "
Be consistent nigger

>>49885547
Negative, >>49885452 is entirely incorrect.

>>49885547
Nobody mentioned western pigs on steam here
you OK?
Your meds?

>>49885541
He can use it if he wants, that will only degrade Touhou even more.
Of course since you don't care about it that means nothing to you, but as I said it's okay.
People with actual brains will call him out on his BS until this crippled franchise ends

>>49885547
>Already did
No you didn't, stupid nigger, you just whined about AI like a faggot and said that the art is shit

>>49885526
Absolutely love the goalpost moving when proven wrong
go to /vt/ anon, drama is all they talk about there, you seem to love it

>>49885547
Literally what are you talking about anon? And most of the reviews are in Japanese/Chinese.
I don't think western fans really buy the games.

>>49885556
are you supposed to be the person with actual brains, because you can barely string a sentence together.

>>49885552
It is not, the sentiment around the release of Th20 was turbulent to put it lightly, as evidenced by all the controversies around the time.
>>49885555
Read the fucking thread nigger, and not only thing one.
Your people love to use the western fanbase as a scapegoat when you run out of arguments "Only western idiots care about the AI stuff so their complains don't matter" was spammed into oblivion since the AI shit was found in the demo.
>>49885560
Relax anon, you are too angry.
>>49885564
I quite literally BTFO of your hypocrisy, anon there's no goalposts moving
>Touhou TH20 is not as well received as TH15 (0 proof of this)
>AI was a net negative to the game there's no aspect of it that benefited from it's usage
These are my points and they are an objective truth

Maybe using AI to generate background textures allowed ZUN to focus more on gaemplay, designing shot types and spell cards. Regardless of opinions on characters or story, most everyone I've talked to says this is the best touhou gameplay in years.

>>49885588
literally ctrl f west and every single post is you lmao
anyway you can barely type, so I understand. It's difficult for retards to make a point.

>>49885588
>AI was a net negative to the game there's no aspect of it that benefited from it's usage
It's part of the story. I'm gonna keep it simple here since big words seem to trouble you.

Make your own thread if you want to talk shit about AI, gameplay, or how well the game's received and get out of the lore thread.

>>49885594
>Ignoring the point
Ok so you ran out of arguments again...
>>49885592
That's what I initially thought but... To be honest the gameplay outside of the extra shot types (general feel, spell cards, resources, etc) is good but not CRAZY good, it's still within the standard for Touhou not what I would expect if ZUN actually focused a lot in it.
And when it comes to the extra shot types.
This is 100% my own opinion so I won't hold it against you if you completely disagree here.
I feel like, while very cool, the extra shot types are just kinda bloat at the end of the day, they don't really feel memorable. I would rather have 5 playable characters than 10 different shot types.
And when it comes to the effort to add these things I don't want to downplay ZUN's work but I feel like for someone like him adding all those isn't as much of an effort as it seems.
Again this is just my shit opinion so I might concede this one.
>most everyone I've talked to says this is the best touhou gameplay in years
The game is enjoyable for sure but this is just empirical evidence
Even this >>49885516 is fails at the argument because 281 reviews are almost nothing compared with the huge fanbase Touhou has

>>49885592
https://x.com/kanjudenomochi/status/1957804737669083535
People been asking for a hard game for YEARS, and they got what they wanted, in the form of a pyramid

>>49885602
The story suffers because of the AI theme, and you don't need to have AI assents to tell a story about it, this argument is beyond retarded.
Are you even trying?

I hope ZUN use these 2 more to loredump about ancient Gensokyo

>>49885625
I just wished the shot customization wasn't locked behind a 1cc

>>49885632
>The story suffers
No.

>>49885625
Love how you're downplaying the steam reviews while exaggerating the controversies, when the controversies is talked by around 20 people.
Then you have the gall to say you're not moving the goalposts.
>but this is just empirical evidence
Jesus fucking christ, this guy is like the illiterate version of korean anon in the CDS threads.

Hmmm
These 2 ending theme are definitely named after Iwanaga-hime and her sister Konohanasakuya-hime. Unchanging vs Beloved

I had to tabbed out of the ost because of how fucking SAD they are, listening to them made me feel depressed, especially the whole stretch between Stage 4 and Stage 5, it sound like there used to be something great where you stand, but has been lost to time and can never go back
The whole game is just sad in general, coupled with Yuiman and Iwanaga backstory

>>49885625
>ignoring the point
>Read the fucking thread nigger, and not only thing one.
Sorry, I can't understand retard. My fault.

>>49885690
I was gonna say this, the game was giving me twin peaks the return vibes where it made me miss old wholesome touhou, when all thats left is the depressing nightmare reality corrupting gensokyo

>>49885690
this is why I don't take stock when people say that touhou music isn't as good nowadays
it's still good, it's just not the silly catchy melodies from the early series anymore. ZUN's always been pretty great at pushing the right emotions through the music but modern ZUN is REALLY good at that

Ok so I have the vision, with the unearthing of Iwanaga-hime, a known anti-Lunarian goddess, and her follower Yuiman, what if in later game we also unseal all the gods that Lunarian sealed around the land? So far we know
>Takeminakata (Kanako's husband)
>Okuninushi (The god Reimu said was handsome)
>Daikoku (The rabbit's idol)
These 3 god are all sealed for opposed the Lunar Capital ideal, what if we just unseal them and Lunar War 2.0?

>>49885690
For me, it reminds me of LoLK's OST, especially of Pure Furies' intensity.

>>49885816
Okuninushi and Lord Daikoku are the same person.

>>49885845
Is that so? That make it 2 that has been namedropped then

>>49885845
Not only are they the same person, but that person is busy looking for more little girls to molest, so I don't think she'll have much time to dedicate to destroying the moon.

>>49885833
Pure Furies was also like FUCK YEAH THIS IS THE FINAL BOSS TIME TO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF HER while Stone Goddess is kinda like a sad final boss theme. I'm looking forward to the vocal arranges of it but I don't see myself listening to it too often like I did for Junko's or Keiki's themes.

>>49886084
Pure Furies is as the title suggests: pure fury. I know exactly how Junko felt towards the Lunarians now after playing FW.

>>49885889
Okuninushi and Matarajin are completely unrelated.

>>49886084
It is also a resurrection like Byakuren, but for Byakuren it was a glorious return of a godly figure, while for Ariya it feel like you just unearth something that was cast away, no longer belonging to this era, and the person know it

>>49885816
Men are un-Touhou in nature so that would never happen. Besides, while they might be angry I don't get a war-like vibe from any of them except for Takeminakata and I don't think he'll try to fight the Lunarians alonde since last time he got humiliated and lost an arm to Takemikazuchi.

>>49885845
Oops, all Okina...

>>49883433
We need to make sure to point out how Ariya failed to connect with Ninigi.

>>49885889
lol a yuricuck
laugh at him

Asama's design is cool

Well guess ZUN put the shell with the trial CD pic because of fossil and the extra boss and the joumon statue due to bringing up ancient kami.
And the phoenix with the full game because of revival and Mokou having mentioned the final boss in the past.
Makes me wonder if he has always put kinda related things with the rest of the CDs

Saw an interesting Japanese post pointing out that Eirin having Misumaru make the stones mirrors how Omoikane had Tamanooya make the yasakani no magatama.

>>49886192
It's impressive how ZUN just makes the Lunarians worse and worse after every single game.

>>49888032
It's nice having a faction or set of characters to view as enemies at least. Even if it's hard to tell if it's intentional or not at times.

>>49878544
>>49878676
The Dragon God has to be up there too, but that seems like such a big deal it's hard to imagine it ever actually showing up.

>>49877023
I think they're lunarian drones Toyohime sent out to cause problems so that Eirin would notice and tasukete her out of the situation without directly asking for help (since that's embarrassing)

>>49885641
It isn't secondary/v/-kun you get a stone for just beating stage 3 whether or not you lose immediately afterwards

Honestly all you negative motherfuckers should speak for yourself, a new top 7 2hu just dropped for me. Too bad I can't vote for her this year

>>49876912 (OP)
Why is one of Ariya's wings filled with eyes?

They finally reunite, thousands of year later

>>49890668
I guess going by her wing and her shrine's torii gate, the all seeing eye is actually an ancient Japanese symbol as far as Touhou is concerned.

>>49890715
that snake is gonna be FUCKING PISSED

>>49890778
I'm sure he won't mind

>>49890715
>>49890791
Already yuri? fuck this life

>>49890808
Bro it is literally here, Ariya remember her follower

>>49890808
Aria's omake is romantic as shit. Friendship also can be romantic but somehow people forget about romanticism of frendship and friendly love. So it's inevitable and encoded into characters to some degree in current climate. Blame climate change

This ship get sadder when you realize they are the last 2 survivors of a ruined kingdom from thousands year ago. Ariya doesn't even count because she is a god, so it is just her and her last surviving follower

>>49890843
>draw 2 boys
>call it yuri

>>49890843
>Ship
Actually they're just friends because I proposed to Ariya

>>49890849
twittards only know how to draw androgynous men

>>49890808
We're talking about a goddess with the power of rejection who's heart is immovable, only for her heart to be moved by the suffering of her long-lost ancient friend
what did you expect to happen?

>>49890898
Cute art

I have a few retarded questions
1) why was it necessary for Ariya to stop time
2) why was it part of the Eirin's "plan" that Ariya would summon humans to beat her up, what good did that do

>>49891492
My understanding of the story:
The huge influx of data (impurity as far as the Lunarians are concerned) meant that Yuiman was unable to keep up with the workload and that the Lunar Capital ceased to become eternal/unchanging so the Lunarians decided to unseal Ariya whose power prevents change, in effect stopping time.
The problem is that while this helps the Lunarians, it means that Gensokyo turns into an unchanging land of death (Yuyuko said it felt the same as the netherworld during the incident).
But Ariya has an obvious grudge against the Lunarians (who doesn't?) because they're using her forgotten shrine as their own facility and have kidnapped and brainwashed Yuiman, so Eirin decides to ask if she'll use her own stones to lure the humans (who've been given their own incident stones made by Misumaru to escape the influence of Ariya's power) to defeat her - in turn saving Gensokyo and resisting the Lunarians' control.
What I want to know is what's happened to the Lunar Capital now that Ariya's been defeated, but it seemed like once Toyohime got wind of Eirin's involvement that she trusts things will turn out fine.

>>49891492
1)To temporarily halt the flow of AI gen products from outside world from flooding into Gensokyo, by making Gensokyo unable to progress or change at all
2)The unsealing of Ariya was Toyohime’s work to attract Eirin attention and have her handle the rest, Toyohime just know that Eirin will send Reimu and Marisa over just like in LoLK

>>49877657
Rather not. Touhou lore was more interesting when it was "open" and headcanon theories were spread and discussed.
On the other hand, ZUN is getting older and the good ol Touhou is reclining can't get any more real than now, so might as well shit out a canon lore to wrap everything up at the curtain call.

>>49891642
>>49891831
Thanks, that cleared up most of my confusion!

>>49891924
>Rather not. Touhou lore was more interesting when it was "open" and headcanon theories were spread and discussed.
The fanbase is not really that big anymore that people would be actively speculating on the world and lore outside of few small pockets of the internet.

>>49891941
That's the sad reality. The series isn't in the limelight as it used to from 2003 to 2012 (or whenever KanColle became big), so ZUN is setting lore in stone (heh) not in an attempt to damage control it seems, but just for his own amusement.

>>49883003
Argentina mejor pais de la galaxia

>>49891960
It's a bit sad in that actually interesting (to me) things have been happening in the lore and worldbuilding but the fanbase is not really there anymore to build off of that with fanworks. Either way, the crazier ZUN gets with the music, the lore and the character designs, the more entertained I am personally.

>>49891986
>but the fanbase is not really there anymore to build off of that with fanworks.
If Touhou only has million fans, then I'm one of them.
If Touhou has one fan, then I'm THAT ONE.
If Touhou has no fans, that means I'm dead.

>>49877657
>From the basic lore alone, the game basically flat out told us there used to be an ancient kingdom where Gensokyo is now who worship the god of Youkai Mountain (previously Yatsugatake)
It's very presumptive to think that Gensokyo is where Yuimankoku was once located. Kanako was quite intimate with the place and its princess, but she's very surprised to find that Yuiman was here, and she never acts like Gensokyo is some kind of old stomping ground of hers.
It's far more likely that Asama Joue simply eventually drifted into Gensokyo like everything else does, since Gensokyo draws those by design. Even Youkai Mountain isn't really historical Yatsugatake, but some old memory of it from before Sakuyahime had her little melty, so there's little continuity with outside world geography.

I'm a bit confused about Asama myself. The omake distinguishes between Mount Asama (the real thing in Nagano where it would make sense for Kanako to recognise) and Asama Joue which is at the pyramid at the bottom of Gensokyo made to resemble Mount Asama.

Honestly FW is weird since Yuiman(S4) is the actual core of the plot and Toyohime(S5) is the big bad. Ariya(S6) is just a prisoner with fossilized rage which needed to be overcome which is why she feels more like a character for the extra stage.

are there other entries where S6 is not the core of the plot or the instigator? There often seem to be a pair of 2 characters. One which can produce incidents and the other one who wants to start incidents.

>>49892567
SA: Orin released the spirits that prompted the heroines to investigate
TD: Byakuren's fault, Miko's gang didn't do anything but be in the wrong place at the wrong time
HM: Koishi stole the mask
DDC: Seija groomed Shinmyoumaru into helping her start the incident
WBaWC: Yachie tricked the heroines into fighting Keiki, who was just minding her own business (I think, I still have a bit of trouble following this one)
UM: Megumu made the ability cards and Tsukasa spread them around, Chimata just lent them her power a bit

Reposting this from the Yuiman thread
https://chireikiden.tumblr.com/post/792304891175600128/some-idle-thoughtsresearch-on-the-stage-4-boss-of

>>49876912 (OP)
What's up with Ariya's rock skirt?

Can someone explain how the fuck they end in the moon if the pyramid is supposed to be under the mountain? And how the fuck they come back from the moon? I don't get it.

>>49893988
leotards are too sexy for ZUN to draw outright, he had to hide it to reduce her eroticism (his wife was strongly against this change)

>>49894591
>The Sage Who Links the Triangular Mountain and the Sea
I think you may just be dumb, anon.

>>49894622
So Toyohime can just warp people around at will?? wtf??

>>49894655
You were literally hovering over a sea and she sent you to a mountain. As far as power interpretations go that's an incredibly literally implementation.

>>49894655
You need to at least read her manga before getting involved in the lore thread, anon. This isn't new at all.

>>49894686
Nta but SSiB is so shit I can pretty much declare the plot (not the characters introduced) non-canon with a straight face. It's about as bad as Mizuchi's manga in terms of execution.

>>49894697
Ironic considering SSiB is probably the most important manga to the game canon and is the only one to really significantly inform multiple games now.

>mizuchi manga bad
kys, the cute vengeful spirit will gt her revenge

>>49894734
Mizuchi's manga would be good if it was like thirty chapters shorter.

>>49894697
No need to be picky, all manga is bad.
>>49894734
kys yourself, brown

>>49894734
CDS fell off a cliff when Ginmokusei left.

>>49894744
Fairy manga is good, Wild and Horny Hermit is mostly good, FS had some really good scenes in the mess that was FS.
ZUN is just really bad at writing satisfying climaxes to his stories. It's not an issue with (most) games because the climax is the final boss fight, but manga can't be carried by gameplay in the same way.

>>49894753
I dont care about the other faggots shitting on every print work. But sadly yeah, I enjoyed the shoujo web comic feel the prev artist had. I still enjoy Mizuchi's misadventures and seeing her more is more than enough for me. I like all the print works and I don't really understand the hate for it, mostly cuz I see moar 2hu = good. It's dumb fun

>>49894768
FS is good because of the phenomenal art and because Suzer is cute. It has just enough of a balance between Touhou-style occultism, grimderp and silliness.

>>49894771
Shojo is a very natural fit for Touhou and I'm surprised it both took that long for ZUN to try it and that he hasn't tried it again since.

>>49894786
>Wild and Horny Hermit is mostly good
lol
>FS [...] has just enough of a balance
lmao
Opinion discarded, enjoy your Z*unose-light

>>49894768
>Fairy manga is good
Can you elaborate a little? It's the only manga I havent read yet (because I hate fairies), so I'm curious what good points it has

>>49894789
ZUN likes fightfag stuff and AAA action stuff, explains why (almost) every character fights before actually talkinh

So is Fairy manga the most universally well recieved 2hu manga then? I rarely see any real criticisms of it.

>>49894805
>fairies
That's the good point, if you don't like fairies then you won't like the fairy manga.

>>49894805
Cute slice of life with fun character interactions and a decent amount of world building.

>>49894805
>(because I hate fairies)
Toyo-chan, don't get carried away just because you're in a game now, okay?

>>49894805
>(because I hate fairies
Hand over your Touhou fan license, now.

>>49894805
t. J.R.R. Tolkien

>>49894832
Hating just means you have taste and little tolerance for one-note meme characters.

>>49894837
Hating on the most Touhou thing still left in Touhou cannot be excused.
Your license. I won't be asking a third time.

Stupid little onaholes aren't good for anything but sex appeal
I cant imagine reading anything longer than 30 pages about them

>>49894655
Kek why is that a surprise? Like half of the Touhou cast can just teleport around, it’s an exceedingly normal feat

>>49894893
Iwanagahime is so handsome!!!
Also since Kanako wants to reunite with Yuiman, so how does the dynamic work with Yuiman, the Moriyas and Iwanagahime?

>>49894900
She's rather ambivalent to Gensokyo and seems fine as long her shrine isn't being misused and Yuiman isn't brainwashed anymore, so I imagine they have a cordial relationship.

>>49894900
They're all drinking buddies. Yuiman takes them hunting afterwards and they accidentally mistake a fairy for a deer in their drunken stupor.

>>49894900
It probably will end up in an alliance between the Moriya and the Asama Shrine.
- Publicly, the alliance is framed as a reunion of long-lost comrades. For the Moriya Shrine, aligning with Youkai Mountain's own landlady solidifies their own authority and creates a real power bloc on the mountain. They might use this to bully the tengu around.
- Personally, Yuiman might trigger a sourness from Kanako when it comes to Lunarians. She mayhaps will act as Yuiman's guide to the modern world.
- Kanako's new domains (technological advancement for one) and Ariya's own domain clash. Yuiman is the connection here. This is the political heart of the alliance. Their personalities and philosophies are different. Kanako is a forward-thinking modernist who treats faith like a market to be conquered. Iwanagahime is a being of permanence, rooted in the traditions of a bygone age, whose goals are driven by ancient principles and personal grudges.
- Suwako's position is unique. She is less emotionally invested than Kanako but no less intelligent. Suwako is a native earth deity, much like Iwanagahime.
- Sanae can relate to Yuiman's status as a former human elevated to divinity.

>>49894900
Maybe they'll help Kanako's wacky plans not fail for once.

>>49894608
Should've listened to his wife

>>49894844
Fairies are the most un-touhou thing in touhou, how at odds they are with touhou only proves that.

>>49895041
>most un-touhou thing
I think we are going to need an essay on that

>>49895693
It's easy, if all of Touhou is at odds with fairies then it's not touhou being un-touhou it's fairies being un-touhou.

anon is starting a fairy war...

>>49892591
>WBaWC: Yachie tricked the heroines into fighting Keiki, who was just minding her own business (I think, I still have a bit of trouble following this one)
The short version is this: Oppressed human spirits create Keiki via faith, Keiki creates soldiers the run the animal spirits out of the animal world, animal spirits start invading the surface in an attempt to draw in someone strong enough to defeat Keiki and allow the animal spirits to retake their home.

Kanako has a new friend! She's no longer a loner!

>>49897756
Did all the Lunarians wake up one day and unanimously agree to fuck with Kanako in specific? Didn't they also imprison some other god related to her?

>>49897794
I don't mind. Kanako is underused. She's certainly more palatable to most of the newhus.

>>49897794
Supposedly her husband as well but it's unclear if they're the same person or not in Touhou, Diakoku (Tewi's idol) is also the father of either Kanako or her husband and the Lunarians fucked him over as well.

>>49897794
It feels like it's easier to assume Lunarians made fucking over deities their go to tradition at some point.

>>49897571
Thanks!

>>49898400
It's further complicated by Yuiman being based on the legend of Koga Sabura, who is essentially an alternate version of Takeminakata, so we have Kanako effectively taking the role of Takeminakata, Takeminakata himself being said to be sealed away in the Suwa shrine by the Lunarians because they feared his wrath, and now Yuiman, who is named after a princess from that story (Yuimahime) while mostly incorporating aspects of Koga Saboro himself, bringing us to a total of three, possibly four Takeminakatas.
It's a Suwa Myojin festival in here.

>>49897794
When they came to earth, either her, her husband, or both, was/were the only god(s) to oppose them.

Saw some interesting Japanese posts about how Ariya and Nina could be based on a couple of Joumon-era doguu designated as national treasures found around the base of Yatsugatake.
One is called the 'Masked Goddess' and the other the 'Joumon Venus'.
Pic related is Venus.

>>49900044
And the Masked Goddess.

>>49897794
Suwako must be a moon agent! That's why she keeps stealing any man interested in Kanako!

>>49900822
Chang'e is a froggy goddess...

>>49897756
my prediction is that touhou 21 will be a partner game like 8 or 11 so reimu and kanako would go hard

These 2 are the closest thing Touhou ever had to canon yuri

>>49901529
Hisami and Zanmu paved the way

>>49897794
>>49897961
Whenever I hear the "Suwa Foughten Field"-based Game Over/Score Entry theme in all games that have them, I always imagine Kanako giving out a booming "ohohoho" laugh, even in the unrelated games past the religion arc, and especially if it's as Reimu getting the game over.

Is "Yuiman" a title? Like Yamaxanadu?