Post gear, discuss gear
Old-school + Back to Basics
Previous: >>63891004

>>63927616
>It's the nfm French army plate carrier it's a piece of shit, when it was just the pc it was passable bit putting a backpack on it made the shoulder straps press on the pc shoulder straps and it became painful as fuck
Dude everything NFM does just fucking sucks. The carriers, gear, helmets, plates -- it's all just shit-tier imitations of better gear, literally inferior to the Chinesium of yesteryear. (Today's Chinese stuff is better. You'd be RETARDED to take NFM over something like Excellent Elite Spanker, and I'm 100% dead serious about this.)

>>63929664
Based and trad

>>63929670
kek

>>63929644 (OP)
im tired of buying plate carriers none of them are comfortable they all have shitty designs that cut into your neck or get your head stuck trying to put it on and off. does anyone know a brand that makes the straps angled so they actually rest on your traps or just inside your shoulders like a backpack? im running out of money buying shit that doesnt fit. no im not obese and yes im buying quality shit recommended by everyone. first one i got was a ferro concepts slickster. shitty thin ass straps that slice into your neck. next i got mayflower apc. almost the same thing but not as bad because it had some padddying and its not as thin so instead of slicing it just pushes uncomfrotably into your jugular. shit was like $300 too.

>>63929739
You posted this last thread and we all assume that your issue is user error.

>>63929739
Post picture of your back in a mirror so we can see your your Quasimodo lookin ass before we make anymore recommendations.

>>63929739
>or get your head stuck trying to put it on and off
Do you also have trouble putting on t-shirts? Button-ups only for you?

Should this guide be broken up into rifle and pistol lam?
I think its good to include current top of the line stuff for reference but i think adding more that are realistically obtainable (eotech ogl, wilcox raid, psq 12 ect.) Would be helpful and cutting down on the lower end.

Should this guide be broken up into rifle and pistol lam?
I think its good to include current top of the line stuff for reference but if there none for sale anywhere its kind of useless in a buyers guide. Adding more that are realistically obtainable (eotech ogl, wilcox raid, perst 3/4 ect.) Would be helpful and cutting down on the lower end.
Im using realistically obtainable as kind of a hand wave here. I just trolled through a couple of forums and marketplaces and listed what i saw.

>>63929908
That's not a bad idea to break the guide into two. My plan with the thermal infographic is the same (dedicated handhelds like taipans in a different one).
The thing with top end stuff is that it does, rarely, come up "second hand." There's at least 1-2 MAWL-CLADs in private possession IIRC for an extreme example.
Also, if things need to be gone tomorrow, prices drop considerably. Look at the LA-12s. Sold on tacswap two years ago for $2k, now $350. Formerly unobtanium, now priced like a Somogear. Sometimes situations change. Good to have info on that stuff.
We also absorbed /pfg/, so IMO we do need a bottom end.
Also, A2, thanks for the feedback on the thermal guide, will incorporate much of it.

Should this guide be broken up into rifle and pistol lam?
I think its good to include current top of the line stuff for reference but i think adding more that are realistically obtainable (eotech ogl, wilcox raid, psq 12 ect.) Would be helpful and cutting down on the lower end.

>>63930062
I did not realize /pfg/ was kill. F.
Ok leave the lower end then.

Many years ago there was an sks buyers guide. Common models, features, avg price and condition to look for ect. At the end it included a quick blurb with east german and north korean? Models basically saying these exist too good luck.
Thats kind of how i
would present stolen $10k government lasers.

Fuck that LA12 guy. LAst one to sell today i lost by $5. Offered $460 for the other one he had and he turned it down.

>>63930147
>$460 for a vis laser
You should thank the guy

>>63930147
I vaguely remember the sks guide, could probably find it in the archives. Honestly if someone had even a V-SLIM and CID was hot on their ass, it'd sell for $3k.
For the LA-12, it sounds like you either underbid and someone's highest bid was higher than yours, or you got sniped.
He might have more, I wouldn't pay more than $500 for one.

>>63930176
>they sold on tacswap for over a grand and some smuck on reddit paid 2.5k for one

>>63930219
Allegedly sold at once in the past for a lightning number != going to happen to you again
A big ass green laser a huge waste of fucking money if youre stuck with it.
>>63930222
>4 pistol mags
Probably slim that down bro

>>63930239
Yeah, but it's cool and strobes.

>>63930239
>Probably slim that down bro
Only two on the carrier and one on the belt. My side inserts just make it llook like the pistol mags are double stacked.

>>63930246
>Cool
Nah, its too fat for aiming
>>63930248
One in the gun, three on the rest of your kit.
Thats a lot of 9mm.

>>63930246
If there is one thing I want more than a vis laser it's a laser that blinks.

>>63930283
Meh, it's only one more than most people run. I usually see two on the belt.

>>63930283
It does however work for dazzling. Mission dictates gear brah. Do you even dazzle enemy chopper squads on the way to McDonalds?
>>63930285
Ahem... it strobes if you want it to.
Honestly curious as to why they didn't include an IR laser on any of the GLIS program dazzlers so they can at least work as a LAM.

>>63930147
He might have auto-denial set at a certain number. Offer $475.

>>63930358
Nah its not worth that to me. I know its only a few bucks more but the last couple sold for less than i offered. It would be cool but ive got no problem walking away.

>>63930198
Yeah someone had a higher bid. The one that sold ewrlier today i bid $450 and it got sold for $455. There is another listed for $800 that i offered $460 for and got turned down.

>>63930176
Visible light is pretty cool. If i were smart about gear i wouldnt be shitposting in /k/

>>63930517
I think the lowest literally sold for $350. My suspicion is that he was moving them quick for certain... reasons and now that the heat isn't there he's getting greedy.
I also suspect the two other guys literally bought units from him and are scalping them north of a grand. Scummy ass behavior. Sadly, they will get buyers at those prices. Show people a laser the government 100% does NOT want them to ever have, and they'll consoom the forbidden glizzy fruit.

What's the best cheap chest rig l can buy if l wanna run 9mm mags like MP5/Glock/CZ Scorpion Mags?

>>63930542
Exactly. im not going to pay over twice what he let one go for. I thought 460 was reasonable considering how the other 3 or 4 went, if he can find a sucker at $800 more power to him.
Wouldnt surprise me if some of them get reposted in a week for $1k+

The list for dumb things i want for $500 is pretty long. Im not going to lose any sleep about this getting away.

>>63929655
Dude you're not even allowed personal PCs, not even allowed personal backpacks, and the higher ups in the company organized a mafia where they oblige everybody new to buy a specific backpack model that they very conveniently happen to sell.

>>63930560
A Type 79 Chicom wouldn't be a bad place to start

Mystery ranch 6500 vs mountain ruck as infantryman ruck? Which one is better and why

I'd like to keep both but I'm trying to slim down my gear to a point where I can fit basically all my shit in a big ruck or duffle bag. I like collecting rare cool gear but at the same time it's immobilized money I could have on my account plus if I have 4 Gucci rucks I'll never use them all.
Plus I'm thinking of going to ukr because my current armed force sucks balls so I want to slim down to the actual good shit I use and make it transportable

>>63930564
It's also really impractical unless rule of law is totally shot and you need to run a checkpoint. Using it for its intended purpose is lawsuit bait. Plain and simple.
For $500 I'd much rather buy a pair of Hesco 4403s as family & friend loaners and have some leftover.
Trust me, people will flip the shit out of these, especially if our guy's "source" keeps going. There are several thousand glizzies out there.

>>63930581
That sucks.
It sucks 1000x more when the only gear you're allowed to use is from some F-tier MIC grift maximizers like NFM.

>>63930680
Honestly it would have just been a dangerous toy. Happy for the guys who got one cheap, i just wasnt lucky enough this time.

My number one choice is still a mawl or raid xe so i guess il keep saving up one of those. The la12 probably wouldve just lived on my m4rgery because i like to pretend im still in afganistan some days.

>>63930680
Honestly it would have just been a dangerous toy. Happy for the guys who got one cheap, i just wasnt lucky enough this time.

My number one choice is still a mawl or raid xe so i guess il keep saving up one of those. Maybe the eotech ogl if i can find a deal.
The la12 probably wouldve just lived on my m4rgery because i like to prete1Wnd im still in afganistan some days.

>>63930846
You'll get another shot. A safe estimate is that there's more than eight thousand LA-12s out there. Sooner or later, another dozen is going to fall off a truck somewhere.
This reminds me. My Chinese lasers do get moderately but still noticeably stronger when loaded with 16340 batteries instead of CR123s (4.2v vs 3.7v). I don't have the balls to test this but I'm curious if the Glizzy would get an output bump from running 4x 16340s instead of 4x CR123s. Of course, this runs the risk of frying the damn thing, so don't try it.

>>63930915
I know i would realistically be fine and happy with a holosun but im a snob and want nicer things.
I shouldve bought a perst when they were cheap a few years ago. Dont know how good they really are compared to western lasers but man they look cool.
I do not trust the sotac perst copy at all.

Anyone got pics of what Eagle Industries USGI Khaki looks like compared to other colors?

>>63930952
Lo and behold, I've added a PERST-3 to the newly improved LAM guide! Ivan the bear is still selling both the 3 and the more expensive, larger, and 18650-powered PERST-2.
The SOTAC PERST-4 is historically the /pfg/ laser of choice for when you were too desperado for a Somogear or later an HFXC. Even "potted" it's a last-ditch LAM, like plates from Jinwudun or Aholdtech.
I also added some seriously fucking cracked B.E. Meyers "LAMs" to the 200% larp section, including the GRI2P - which is literally a 1000mW IZLID 1000P and a 250mW GBD-III green laser mated into a singular "LAM." IZLID functions as the IR pointer and illuminator, effective out to 37km, GBD-III the vis laser out to 7km. Powered by six CR123s.

I never see condor recommended in these threads, why should I avoid it?
>pic rel is like 50 dollars on sale rn.

>>63930592
kek you're that italian larper who owns dozens of backpacks and useless milsurp aren't you?

>>63931363
Do it if you want, its probably fine. Condor had severe QC issues for years, but in the last decade what I've seen of theirs has been a dramatic improvement in both quality and design, they're trying their own shit (older condor are copies of diamondback and eagle stuff from 2008) and apparently doing it pretty well. However, there are other brands in that price bracket that don't have the QC baggage, particularly Blackhawk; so even if they're good to go now, I don't see any reason to touch them or recommend them; and I figure that's probably the view of most people.

>>63931482
No Im just a person that has 2 rucks

>>63931997
How is it that you're a "motorized infantryman" which is a thirdie name like out of the Russian Army, but you have two Mystery Ranch rucks which both cost close to $1000 and you can't figure this out for yourself?

to mk2 mtp lbe owners: can I take the the harness (and few pouches) off and use it as a range belt? Is the belt stiff enough to put a handgun on it? Also will any pouches work with that belt(like aliexpress ones)?

>>63932384
You can pull everything off a virtus belt and have a gigantic as fuck padded war belt. And it absolutely is stiff enough for a handgun. But all around its kinda a bad range belt and a waste of time doing any of that. Id rather put a couple pouches on my pants belt.

>>63931363
GQ DebtMaxxers will not accept that most people here don't train enough to wear out condor gear.

>>63933686
People who buy condor cant afford to train
They would unironically be better off with a chicom and spending the rest on training.

>>63933751
>he does not dispute that most people here don't train.
grip consneeds condor is good. The tragedeigh.

>>63933849
I dunno man. My last experience with Condor was a decade or so ago, and while stuff like their pouches were fine, I wouldn't trust their load bearing gear for anything. I had their war belt setup and suspenders and they were pretty terrible, the belt itself was floppy, the molle sagged, it started wearing out after the most minimal, and I mean MINIMAL of use. It wasn't great. I've heard they're better now, but even still, some chinkshit is even better than Condor.

>>63929739
im tired of buying toilet paper none of them are comfortable they all have shitty designs that cut into your ass or get your hand stuck trying to put it on and off. does anyone know a brand that makes the folds angled so they actually rub on your cheeks or just inside your taint like a dingleberry? im running out of money buying shit that doesnt fit. no im not obese and yes im buying quality shit recommended by everyone. first one i got was a condor rangerballer. shitty thin ass straps that slice into your dick. next i got elite spanker. almost the same thing but not as bad because it had some padddying and its not as thin so instead of slicing it just pushes uncomfrotably into your balls. shit was like $300 too.

>>63933868
NTA, allegedly Condor stepped up their QC in the last decade. Same goes for China, however, which makes it rather moot unless you prefer Condor's designs.

>>63933868
When I had some the molle "webbing" was rolled up nylon not actual webbing. I hope for all poorfags sake that they changed that.

ass

>>63931063
I thought the perst series were actually issued to the russians. Wild that zentico just makes them with no formal contracts.

How do these companies develop and test these mil/gov lasers? Im sure be meyers and wilcox have a copy of just about every one of each others lasers. The whole thing seems like a catch 22. You cant build and test high powered lasers with a dod exemption letter but you cant get the letter without having something the dod wants to buy.
No wonder non computer businesses are dying. Navigating bureaucracy is terrible.

>>63935284
Companies can mfg R&D lasers as long as they arent sold, used infront of the public, etc.
Internally they can mfg whatever if it has all of the required labeling, safety interlocks, etc
They cant sell it to anons

>>63935284
> How do these companies develop and test these mil/gov lasers?
Unironically in China, Japan, or Europe.
Part of navigating bureaucracy is deciding where to do the work with the least hurdles.

>>63929644 (OP)
What's a good pant/shirt combo? Crye charging $300 for a pair of pants seems insane

>>63935404
Chinese knock offs.

>>63935284
They are issued to certain Russian units. Ivan the bear and other outfits are able to "source" Russian equipment. A2 is right with regards to developing and testing them. I made some quick updates to the thermal optic guide. Not taking it out of "draft" status until it's more ironed-out and the monocular "side-2" is done.

>>63935404
Jeans, polo.

>>63935404
CQR

>>63935404
A decent set of carpenter's pants and a T-shirt.
Unironically. If it's good enough for people that win international shooting competitions, and counter terrorist squads, it'll be good enough for you.

>>63935430
lol I have some of their stuff including the polos I mentioned in the post above yours.

Updated first aid infographic. Point me to any items that need more detailed / updated descriptions.

>>63935449
This is seriously a good recommendation.

>>63935095

>>63935449
What do you think of the ones with built-in kneepads?

Opinions on crye lv rbav?

>>63935525
Who is "pillanon" and where did he describe that pill pack? If you're gonna take phenylephrine, might as well just take a nasal spray

>>63931363
>I never see condor recommended in these threads, why should I avoid it?
when it comes to a PC you are already going to be dumping hundreds on plates, why buy a heavier pc with mystery meat materials and suspect quality to save $70?
if you got temu plates, go for it

I want to start doing multi-day hikes. Also bought red flashlights and a normal white light headlamp. I still don't know how I want to do my sleeping arrangement, I think I would feel way too vulnerable in a tent.

>>63935618
2-3 threads ago I think, just a dude. I'm observing that while armor may be the sketchiest gun-related industry, first aid is without question the most hotly-debated..

>>63935672
I agree. Condor appeals to the demographic that considers Militech high-end. Namely the LAPG / Botach crowd.

>>63935698
What do you mean too vulnerable in a tent? Grow a pair, faggot.

>>63935698
Vagabonds and urbexers like Shiey use sleeping bags and hammocks.

>>63935717
I mean in the worst case scenario you're waken up at 2am to human footsteps, they know where you are they can just bash you with a bat through the tent but you have to take time to unzip the tent to even look.

>>63935698
tent is the luxury option

it is imperative you learn to stealth camp.

>>63935328
So its really just the selling that the fda takes issue with? I tried reading some of the laws but quickly got over my head with how many regulations there are. I am not cut out to be a lawyer.

>>63935376
Safety is good and all but i look at wild west the past was and get nostalgia. Probably didnt really exist like that but it feels like half the things we have now would never have been created if they had the same standards.


>>63935422
Im sure there are some units that buy it just like some units in the US buy equipment. I guess theyre the only russian laser ive heard of so i assumed they were the go to.
Thats a lot like assuming holopoint provides lasers and optics to the ccp because they are the biggest name i can think of. I see now im kind of retarded.

>>63935762
That's right. The FDA's rules are basically unenforced anyway. They're only followed by the big dogs and people afraid of formalities. China doesn't care.
China and their own military sourcing is interesting. I laugh when people say they could never issue plates to all their guys for example. Please, they can out-manufacture anybody.
Holosun does also have a "domestic" parent company in China, so they can very well be supplying the PLA - albeit indirectly. Ditto for Infiray.

>>63935734
Maybe it's best people like you stay out of the woods.

>>63935795
At least I won't have to worry about winnebago supreme here finding me.

In LA-12 GLIS news, the guy selling one for $1,750 either sold or got nabbed by CID. Only one remaining for over 1k. The ebay guy's stock is exhausted. No more $350 200mW green lasers.
Curious if the ebay guy narc'd on the scalpers, lol.

>>63935776
Never hurts to explore all the angles. I was hoping there was like a "kitchen table ffl" kind of thing where i could open an llc and say i do research or sell lasers so i could get the good stuff but its never that easy.

Chinese companies are weird like that. I assume all of them have to pledge fealty to the government but are allowed to operate fairly independently as long as it doesnt conflict with any of the parties interest.

>>63935803
I've been camping longer than you have been alive. You're afraid to go by yourself you don't get to hurl insults around.

>>63935698
If you want to go maximum larp, just sleep in a bivvy sack in a hole in the ground.

>>63935831
>I've been driving the mobile living room to the nearest fishing spot for longer than you whippersnappers were even born

>>63935842
nta but you are projecting like a mother fucker
I get it, its embarrassing to be afraid of the dark at your age

>>63935842
Weird cope mr. nocamps.

>>63935863
>>63935865
He started it by being a petty faggot in the larp general. Probably is fat as fuck too, passes off backyard shots as the wilderness. I simply do not believe.

>>63929644 (OP)
Are you still telling people to just wear a plate carrier and not bother with kevlar like the no combat tards you are?

>>63935871
SAD

>>63935871
Yeah my back yard is a mountain this is also my backyard.

>>63935873
tell people to do what they believe is best for the situation they are in
in a gun fight just plates make sense, in a modern war kevlar would be good for shrapnel

>>63935871
Oh I see now. My first post was this one I didn't call you a faggot >>63935795

>>63935830
Yeah, you basically have to be at least a cop with department letterhead to buy FP lasers first-hand. B.E. Meyers and L3 won't sell you the hot shit unless you're the DOD. GRI2P is right out.
From a gunsoomer perspective, China is extremely based for selling us anything as long as we have enough money.
It is in the CCP's best interest, after all, that Americans blind each other with 1500mW riot lasers and FP LAMs.
>>63935873
That was /gq/ years ago. Now we're on the high-coverage bandwagon.

>>63935698
>I want to start doing multi-day hikes. Also bought red flashlights and a normal white light headlamp. I still don't know how I want to do my sleeping arrangement, I think I would feel way too vulnerable in a tent.
I use perimeter electronic tripwire alarms that have fishing line filament pull cords , they have PIR sensors on them too. I create a perimeter before I even pitch a tent. Do a search and you will find some, You can use cartridge tripwire bangers too but you might start a shootout with someone harmless. The loud electronic alarms get bears to fuck off as well
example
https://tripalarms.com/product/camp-guardian-electronic-trip-wire-alarm-kit/

Not mine just similar

>>63935886
That's solid, although coverage is a constant issue with just hard armor. If up against only basic pistol threats, soft armor nets you more coverage and is far, far lighter.
Sometimes mobility is its own kind of armor, as long as the situation permits.

>>63935892
>That was /gq/ years ago. Now we're on the high-coverage bandwagon.
You used mock me for telling you that you needed kevlar and plates alone was stupid. I doubt everything you cook up, queer indeed.

>>63935908
Im not LE, there's very little chance that I would be armored to go up against pistol threats, but everyone can larp their own larp

>>63935906
Interesting, before this setup have you played around with cheapo Amazon motion sensor floodlamps?

>>63935920
AGAIN
YOU WEAR ENOUGH KEVLAR TO STOP WHAT YOU CARRY OR YOU SHOULD NOT CARRY

I WOULD HAVE LOST MY RIGHT ARM AND LUNG IF IT WAS NOT FOR SOFT ARMOUR.

PLATES ONLY IS FOR FANTASISTS AND IDIOTS

NONE OF YOU WILL EVER SEE COMBAT

GO TO UKRAINE AND STOP COSPLAYING FFS

>>63935933
>GO TO UKRAINE
no

>>63935912
As you should. Armor is sketchy as fuck. Trust nobody. Verify everything.
>>63935920
Or inner city, although let's face it ARPs with M855 are more common as the trend goes on. Come to think of it, a glizzy on an ARP sounds nasty.

>>63935930
The ones i have have pull trips that you can just attach filament to like strong fishing line and they have little PIR sensors. The PIR sensors are only good for a few meters, nice if it is being connected to a detonator, however the tripwire can be run 15 M and probably further. I have four of them, they weigh nothing. Go digging and you will find all sorts and types. They are basically a large chunk of modern AP mines minus the bit that goes bang

>>63935940
Coward.

>>63935951
How long do they last for?

>>63935955
already served MY country
I dont care about the other ones

>>63935933
Recruiters down bad frfr

I see the debate of hard and soft armor has returned. Time to increase the larp.

If you bought the new RMA XRTs... I'm sorry.

>>63935962
Dress up and play man has worked in burger king hey.
K then
Have a nice day. Years of watching you all shit on about wanting to get in a fight, operating, being a merc etc fetishizing worthless cunts like me and when there is one in front of you its all
>Noo...not that fight but maybe another one?

At least you're not all still shitting on bout muh US civil war like 10/10 simpletons
>Yes kremlin I will kill my brother because he votes different look at all the useless shit I bought!
>>63935963
Stop squirming.

>>63935933
THAT'S RIGHT BROTHER. WHY STOP THERE? SHIELD IT UP.

>>63935986
I thought secret service nabbed your schizo ass?

>>63935830
Here's a taste of China, you're bang-on that they pretty much do anything. No I'm not giving any of you people egg rolls.

And "side 2" of the aliexpress guide.

>>63936003
Why the fuck would I wear that shameful rag around my neck? I've no loyalty to any nation except me and my family. I'm just a burnt out war junkie laughing at your dress up and play and shit advise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bw8UM1eLFo

>>63935095
Post your buckler shield RIGHT NOW

>>63936031
I fuck ya mudda with my lightning beams

>>63936074
Parametricist palmeddo philosophy

>>63935986
What a shit shitpost

>>63936074
temu looking ass

>>63936018
>>63936025
I dont hate chinese goods at face value. I think you need to do a lot of diligence but theyre a large enough country they must have skilled manufacturing.

>>63935892
Im not going against the chorus when i say mil/gov only is bullshit but i cant blame them for going after those contracts.
I just want a lightsaber on top of my gun.
Maybe my best bet would be to hodgepodge something together from a bunch of chinese lasers. How hard could it be to make an aluminium housing for chinese hardware? Cant be a worse form factor than the dbal d2.

>>63936106
As the infograph expresses, you can divide Chinese goods into A (duty), B (range), C (airsoft), and D (shit) grades. They have improved considerably in the past fifteen years. There wasn't an A-grade Chinese armor scene when white label plates were at their height in the 00s to mid 10s, or red dots before Holosun and the bunch.
You just have to know your brands and your grades.
Maybe buy a 1500mW blue laser and 100mph tape + zip tie it to your handguard? No guarantees it'll hold against recoil but they're like $110. Also no option to zero unless you use a tight mount and shims. It is not an aiming tool.
For more serious shit, Specprecision or SMS may be willing to sell you stuff with jacked power outputs. A 200mW+ green laser heatsinked HFXC-on-crack would be a nasty "combat dazzler."
A Somo LA-12 for $300 would be hilarious.

Niggers

>>63936258
Nice rifle.

>>63935992
>>63936018
>>63936025
Very nice. Any holster guides or tier lists?

>>63936370
Actually no, I'll put that on the list.

>>63936402
Thank you anon

>>63936131
I should really just buy a mawl c1 and call it a day. All the things i read and look up it seems to be better than some of the cheap high powered units but could just be shills.
An extended range fuck you laser is cool but theres no reason to have it mounted on my rifle and if i want to larp as a jtac im sure there are plenty of cheap ultra high chinese lasers that i can pretend to paint targets with.

>>63936699
I'd hate to put that much money on a civ-power unit. See if you can get a MAWL-DA that fell off a truck. It happens.
Conditions aren't always ideal and there are cases where you'd want a stronger, more visible output. The extended range MAWL is fringe for a reason - 200mW vis and IR lasers are nuts, so the DA is the sweet spot.

>>63936737
I figured you never see them pop up because theyre like an extra $2k.
My worry is if anything happens to it im out $3k+ with no way to repair it. I dont know if there are any independant repair shops that would work on FP stuff. Maybe i could try to repair it myself but probably not.

>>63936767
The prices on the infographic for... "second hand" stuff are nominal. MAWL-DAs can be had for less than new MAWL-C1s sometimes.
Repair is definitely a concern, although most serious LAMs are pretty bombproof and will last for ages. Those LA-12 dazzlers were made between 2008 and 2013. Lots of people are rolling much older PEQ-2s still.
Where I'd be cautious is getting conned. Chinese MAWLs are a thing and it is possible to get screwed into buying a fake when you're trying to get a real DA. The Chinese try harder on the MAWLs than other LAMs. Buying a C1 from reputable outfits does not have that problem.

>>63936803
I dont know enough to dodge a good copy. I forget counterfeits are an actual issue. I feel like the chinese could just make a good laser in the same form factor and people would be happy to buy it.

Ok so looking for a mawl what are red flags or is it impossible to really know until you turn it on?
Its kind of a stupid point to make about repair because i dont worry about fixability of most other things in my life.

>>63935985
Come on, nobody here was dumb enough for that.

>>63936833
The Chinese MAWLs come in a variety of versions. Theh cheap ones are plastic and have no IR illum. Easy to spot.
The best ones from specprecision are metal, full function, and allegedly recoil rated. Look at a fake first and check the serial - they like to reuse those. There are also slight differences in the markings and paint.
>>63937102
I hope so. I occasionally lurk reddit & arfcom, people fell for it left and right over there. Poor guys didn't check the test reports.
The new "noob combo" in fact is seemingly a Novasteel helmet and XRTs.

>>63937620
We've said all of this before, but it's absolutely incredible that you can just gimp a shit-tier fiberglass Level IV plate and charge more money for it, and people fall for it. (I'm not convinced that Redditors are people though.)
It won't stop M80 Ball at <44mm and they're never going to certify it.

>>63935886
Depends where you are. If you're in an urban environment, you're literally 5-10x more likely to run into handguns than rifles. Soft armor has its niche.

>>63937800
I run soft armor inserts in my cummerbund. I'm in a fairly urban environment so I imagine handguns are more likely to be encountered than rifles if shit were to truly hit the fan. Also, I prefer the coverage I get, the soft armor insert covers my whole side, from plate to plate, whereas side plates only give you a 6x6 area of protection.

>>63937847
You can get 6x8" side plates, but yeah.
It's kind of weird that the Based Chinks aren't selling good/cheap soft armor. The soft armor market in the US is fucked, as the large companies that make B-tier+ armor don't want to bother selling to dirty civilians.
The best you can get is some cop's sweat-stained Safariland panels after the warranty period expires.

>>63937795
>Ohhhh but Buffman helped with R&D! He recs them! Use code Buffman to get 10% off!
>F-f 5.6lb and it stops M80A1 and M855A1
>My friend took several AK bullets over several days, I trust RMA!

>>63938056
> 5.6lb
Is there any chance that this is actually true? I bet the "shooter's cut" is ackshually 6 pounds and the "10x12 inch" cut is 6.4.

>>63938016
Militech is selling IIIA + level 2 stab soft armor in plate / side cuts, but with their $150 shipping it's not as economical as Stealth Armor Systems.
Fun fact, certain vests allow you to use XS-sized SAPI plates as sides.

>>63938074
How does it stack up vs. something A-tier like the Safariland SX?

>>63938067
The shooters is 5.3lb (keep in mind nominal sizing, Highcom style) and the SAPI M is 5.9lb. Size and weight tolerances are 0.2" and 0.2lb. Given a 5.98lb SAPI M XRT is 2mm shy of failing BFD on M80, I would want to see how a 5.7lb, 0.2" thinner one does - especially one that wasn't handpicked by RMA for the express purpose of a test report.

>>63938083
Areal density is 1.848lb/ft2 vs SX's 0.83lb/ft2. Of course stab-resistant soft is going to weigh more, but that's a big difference. a 10x12 plate-cut panel is 1.43lb. About double the Safariland.

In armor news, Dayton - the manufacturer of sus TIER 1 ROFLMAO Level III plates, is now dealing their Level IV openly. 4.8lb, $1,200. Basically the Hesco 4800 but a touch lighter and perhaps a little... less good.
The fact they can't clear the 4800 (5.1lb) significantly tells me they don't have any revolutionary tech behind their armor. Very similar weight to the second gen RMA 1199. Just B4C, PE, and likely hot on the BFD with not a whole lot of multi hit.

>>63933849
>>he does not dispute that most people here don't train
I shamefully admit I don't train nearly enough. For some reason as a tax-paying citizen in this fucking country it's very hard to just go somewhere and run around with kit & gats when you're anywhere near civilization.

>>63933849
Training is for boys. Drip is for men.

And time for the new armor manufacturer of the week. Introducing... SERBAN.
>https://www.s3rban.com/defense-division-body-armor?

As they quote, their plates are straight from Asia's elite lines and toughest factories. They've got three!
1. Level III, 5.06lb, rated for 6x M80 or M855. $300. BUILT FOR THE GRIND.
2. Level IV (SiC + PE), rated for 1x M2AP or 5x 7.62x51 M80, 5.9lb and $450.
3. Level IV+ (B4C + PE), rated for several M2AP or 1x .50 BMG FMJ at 850m/s. Sub-30mm BFD (yeah okay), 1" thick, 6.83lb, $500.
They also have a druggie t-shirt collection and some other weird shit.

My observations:
1. Nice that they're honest about Chinese sourcing. Better than other companies lately...
2. The thickness on the .50 cal plate is wrong, just going off the picture it's 1.4" thick, easy.
3. The III and IV check out on first observation - at least on paper, there's nothing noteworthy about the specs. The .50 cal plate is immediately suspect and I call cheat ring - especially given that it's the same price as a Militech B4C + PE Level IV from 2018 and yet is far, far more reinforced if it can stop .50 cal FMJ at 850m/s sub-30mm BFD. Extra material costs dictate something has to be subtracted.
That Rook MEGALODON bullshitter plate had BFD north of 80mm, also B4C+PE, but with a suspected 2" cheat ring, so this plate is apparently much more beefy.

>>63938618
Dude they're literally Romanian. I'd bet you good money that the plates don't even really exist.
And the sub-30mm BFD thing is probably on .30-06 M2AP because there's no way they're stopping .50 BMG FMJ with BFD like that.
Also literally no military uses .50 BMG FMJ. It's all AP. The FMJs are training rounds only.

>>63931363
I got a Condor with my first plate for like 50 bucks cause it was on sale. It's a good 'starter' to find out how you like to wear shit. I found out that I hate regular cummerbunds like the one in that pic and got some random 45 dollar QD cummerbund, I like it a lot more.

I'd have to go buy a nicer carrier and see how it really differed but honestly, if you're gunna just be wearing it for fun it's fucking fine. I spent 95 bucks on cheap stuff and now I have a way better idea of what I'd want to buy next. Now I also have a 'buddy' rig I can give to my Canadian fren when he comes to visit.

I think Condor is like literally 1 step above arsoft shit, I guarantee dudes are running around in Ukraine stacking russians in Condor shit. I dont know if I would go to WAR with it, but if I had nothing else to carry my plate and ammo with? absolutely will work fine

>>63933751
honestly by the time you've ran around beating the shit out of condor gear and it's "coming apart" you'll at least have a better idea of what to buy next

that's how I see it anyway

>>63938875
Listen here pal, they have ultra-discrete ZINOZ worldwide supply chain partners and served 93 cuntrys worldwide. Four national governments! The death sentence in twelve systems!
I think the ".50 BMG FMJ under 30mm" is doable if you massively crank the thickness of the backer and include an armox steel intermediate layer. That's not the case here, especially not with the thickness, weight, & cost they're claiming.
Remember, there are ratings under VPAM (PM-13 / 14) for heavier threats than this, although they're primarily vehicle oriented.
I think the rating is just as a cheap show-off. Come to think of it, why can't Militech do this? Thicken the RF3 Black to 1.5", it'll be about 8.5lb or so depending on the exact layup between ceramic and backer layers. If the strike face is thick enough, .50 M2AP. Poorfag Colossus Heavy not in development hell, anyone?

>>63938920
>>63938913
The gigabrain move is to get a needle, get some thread, and reinforce your Condor gear if you think it has weak points.
They use the same fabrics as everybody else. It's just that the stitching and build quality are total garbage.

do I buy cheaper 2moa holosun aems or one with the 65 moa which is slightly more expensive? also does this mount hold zero when you take it on and off?

>>63939346
You are asking them... to learn... a skill?
I

>>63936258
explain that belt setup anon

>Government only scope
GAY

>>63939549
>buy a $300 copy from CHINA
STRAIGHT

>>63939584
The 300 dollar copy from China is legitimately going to be bad though. They use lower quality parts all over the place.

>>63939611
None of us shoot enough to tell.

>>63938016
SAS makes really good soft armor

>>63939771
Really wish they ran with that more instead of trying to bring back Dragonskin for the fourth time. In the mid-00s Pinnacle, a previous Dragonskin manufacturer, sold IIIA+, IIIB, and IIIB+ soft armor rated for interesting threats.
As soft armor is basically backer when used with plates, it'd be interesting to see how common armor plates, even standalone types, function when backed by tougher stuff.

>>63935095
Lol, I saw that on reddit. Poor fucking guy bought the novasteel helmet and face guard because it looked cool in tarkov, bit the screws don't fit right and the face guard kept falling off.
Can't find the post anymore.

>>63940010
They really, really suck at promotion. Honestly the only place I ever hear about SAS is here, and the only place I ever see their gear is eBay. I don't get it.

>>63939549
>Government only scope
Why do they do this?
>>63939584
>>63939611
I'm not totally convinced either way. Has the new stuff from China been tested?

>>63938118
The Militech version is more than twice as heavy.
Is S-tier soft armor so hard to make that only companies like Safariland and Point Blank can into it?

>>63940380
>Why do they do this
Our government is fake and gay
>Has the new stuff from China been tested?
I can say for certain that the chinese cut corners left and right. It does depend on the product however, but a Vortex LPVO copy is definitely going to have worse everything. There ARE certain things you can buy that are chinkmade clones that are actually the real deal because the real deal is genuinely made in the same factory though.

>>63939346
I’m not poor I don’t want to sew my own gear.

>>63939705
You can look through it and tell. If you have never used a good scope then you won’t be able to tell though.

>>63940362
Bain, the guy in charge, runs a small outfit and had a history of getting into arguments on Lightfighter and other "old head" forums. His last company, Evolution Armor, went bust in 2016, so I doubt he has resources to pay a guy to astroturf full time on reddit and discord - like what RMA does. Most of the "alt-armor" honchos, RMA's Blake Waldrop, SAS' Allan Bain, and Adept's Jacob Ganor have histories of getting into arguments on old forums and also being "my way or the highway!" types. They don't promote well unless they throw shit at Buffman and other youtubers, which all three of their companies do. See a trend?
He's also never really escaped the specter of being formerly associated with Murray Neal and the infamous Dragonskin failures of 06-07, although they last worked together in 1999.
Armor is a two sided coin. Safe armor, consisting of the Big Six. Ceradyne (RIP), BAE, LTC, Tencate (now Integris), Highcom, Hesco. These are all (mostly) reputable companies. Professional end user types. Then you have alt armor, consisting of everybody else that either bucks the NIJ or tries to do things their own way. RMA, Adept, AR500, Militech, SAS, Dayton, Prime, Safelife, LAPG, Tacticon, I could go on.

In short, Bain tried to promote before, but he got his ass kicked doing it and is haunted by his past associations from over two decades ago.

>>63940392
It's a technological thing. China has parity with the US when it comes to most ceramics, although the big guys like Ceradyne (RIP), BAE, Cercom (RIP), and Tencate have special ceramics that China cannot match. China does not have parity with the latest aramid and PE fibers. Their soft armor and plate backers alike are behind the very latest Spectra and what not.
Point Blank / Safariland are also huge fish in the LE armor arena. Militech is frankly China's Hesco. They are not state of the art by any stretch. We haven't seen the true top end of China's armor industry. Who's their Ceradyne?

>>63940458
> Highcom
> Hesco
There's a small issue with this, anon, which is that both Highcom and Hesco are two of the "unsafest" companies in the business, IMO.
The 4SUS4 may have been the largest debacle ever, and no company has ever failed more tests than Hesco. The 4800 is frankly another debacle.

>>63940487
Makes sense

>>63939366
If you don't need the circle dot reticle, just get the Core model. I'm not sure how well the mount returns to zero, but the updated version (AEMS X2) now uses a more robust cross bolt for mounting.

>>63940529
I must be grossly misinformed about plates. I thought hesco was like the gold standard for armor.
Like arent they the toyota of plates?

>>63940529
What you said is true. Yet Highcom's actually .06-certified lineup remains intact and Hesco corrected all their issues, recalled plates, and replaced them (4400, 4600, 3410, 3610) with better models. 4401 to 4403, 4601, 3411, 3612. Even the 4800 is being replaced by the 4801. Can, for example, RMA say the same? The 1155 was never corrected, the 1165 is the same strike face with a better backer.
For Hesco and Highcom both, stick to the CPL and you're fine. It also goes without saying that both companies are common "go-to's" for professional users.

As for the debacle, Ceradyne's delams in 2013 was much greater, as was the Pinnacle debacle in 06 and the fake titanium plates of 03. Zylon and Second Chance, that was the biggest fucker of them all.
>>63940550
Tencate is the toyota of plates. Boringly reliable. Hesco is the go-to for people that are either strapped but need American or people willing to thin safety margins to save the last smidgen of weight.

Do you guys just buy a knife for each plate carrier and chest rig and belt? I like to tie a kydex sheath down to the pals webbing with microcord under a larger pouch. Doing it that way definitely doesn’t allow fast swapping.

>>63940710
If you like it that way, you can buy multiple sheaths for the same knife.
But really sticking knives on carriers is kind of a meme. There are better ways.

>>63940710
I carry a knife on my belt because if I have to do some shit I usually grab my belt first, but I'm also in the woods a lot
I also carry a tiny swiss army knife mostly for the tweezers to get rid of splinters,
depends on your environment and use case

I have been wearing peltor sport for the range for a few years

I think they pick up audio good enough, but is it normal for it to sound loud as fuck in an indoor range? are all earpros going to sound loud as fuck at indoor ranges? just want to make sure im just not deafening myself unknowingly.

>>63940947
Dude indoor ranges are VERY loud.
Double up. Wear in-ear earpro AND your Peltors. It's the only way to shoot indoors, tbqh

>>63940947
like other anon said always double up at indoor ranges

>>63940960
thanks, i figured i was missing something.

>>63909675
Cooked up that eyepro infographic I promised last bread. This is a fairly uncomplicated area unless you start getting into laser protection. You want ANSI Z87.1 and MIL-PRF-32432A for ballistic / impact. Applicable laser standards are ANSI Z136 (the "OD" scale) and EN 207. I included a bunch of guides at the bottom to help with picking options. Watch those wavelengths.
Good news is that most reputable ballistic eyewear now also has laser protective options. A lot of it gets expensive. If you're broke, S.P.E.C.S and minimize exposure. As said last thread, if Class 4 lasers are a problem you want the highest OD you can get for applicable wavelengths. Class 3R/3B you can skirt with lower OD.

>>63940986
aliexpress has good knockoffs for bottom dollar

>>63940960
This goes double if they allow large calibers or people are rolling muzzle brakes. Many of the latest "tank-style" brakes (M905 talon, SJC, etc) are obnoxious as hell.

>>63941013

>>63940927
This is the problem with too much gear. If I’m not full plate carrier I’m using a real backpack (multicam EXO inbound) and chest rig. Maybe I need a nylon webbing dangler for my knives that can fit under a packs hip belt.

>>63941035
Its all made in china bby

>>63941072
Sounds like a new section for the Aliexpress guide side 2. You have any exemplars?

>>63941085
I've been very pleased with these knockoff oakleys. They don't fog up so bad and block the light pretty well when using the dark polarized lens. No clarity issues using a scope or while in low light with the clear lens. You can buy a backup pair and never worry about messing up your eye pro for $20 total.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805091758363.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.165.6de51802MQG9MH&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

I also use radians-crossfire which do fine for cheap but use the knockoff oakleys more. I feel the knock offs do better with fogging and sweat.
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/shooting-equipment/eye-protection/radians-crossfire-doubleshot-glass-clearblack/p/1627408

>>63941138
Excellent!

Mr 6500 vs mountain ruck
And why

>>63940710
Usually just a folder in my pocket sometimes a fixed blade on my belt for maximum larp.

>>63940986
I wear glasses so this one likely won’t apply to me, but I’m downloading it out of respect for the sheer levels of autism that went into creating it. Good job anon.

>>63940595
I though it was weird the 4400 got it's cert revoked but not the 4401.

>>63941694
Many thanks. You can get prescriptions for some of these now. I'll throw that into the 1.01 version.
>>63941731
The 4401 replaced the 4400 after the latter bombed a FIT test. Outside of extreme "collateral" situations (Zylon, Dragonskin, Shotstop) the NIJ only suspends specific models that fail FITs. The 4401 IIRC never failed, so no reason to suspend it. It's inactive now because the 4403 replaced it. 4403 is actively certified.
Also, single / multi curve plates are technically different models, so the 4400MC would not have been affected by the 4400's suspension either.
The real reason why Hesco got four suspensions was improperly heat-treated ceramic strike faces. It's a resolved problem now. Many of the people still harping about that are trying to deflect from other companies' debacles.
Hesco's real problem is that they don't innovate. Their latest plates are all very mediocre, but that can be said for a lot of companies. Materials, ceramic and backer alike, are not advancing at the rate necessary to make real progress.

>>63935525
Many med students use pigs feet, pork belly, or chicken breast/other parts for suture practice. apparently fake skin all feels too fake. i specifically see pig feet suggested a lot

>>63942211
How do you get the pig to stay still while you suture it?

>>63942424
yeah

>>63942424
> He doesn't know
Nobody tell him.

>>63936018
Are there any good pants that have at least 8 pockets ( preferably 10 ) and are 100% cotton or wool, I do not like polyester

>>63942486
Here you go bro:
> https://www.amazon.com/AKHIKING-Tactical-Ripstop-Lightweight-Pockets/dp/B0DG8M2YKX
They even have a ton of meme camo options, including Ali-G camo.
Or are you looking for $300 pants?

>>63942511
Budget stuff is better for me, i'm not looking to break the bank and larp I actually want to use them, so thanks you did great

>>63930581
Man that sucks really bad what is this unit wtf...
Just apply for another unit ! move before you disgust yourself of the army.
I joined a recce unit 6 years ago and while things aren't always the best but i get some pretty cool stuff. We get issued ops-cores, dbals, gucci optics etc... we can wear whatever we want and even paint our rifles.

>>63940986
What about milsurp ESS and Revision glasses and goggles as impact protection? They are still quite affordable and available.

>>63929908
Archive for these infographics?

>>63935933
not dying for jews, so goto hell and no.
>>63935955
shitbag failed zigger war orphans. youre all 3rd generation at most.
>>63935986
I love this war, watching both brands of ungrateful corrupt heeb scum wipe each other out.

>>63942916
Also good. What I usually do is a basic "1.00" version and then expand the field with the 1.01 based on suggestions, so they'll go in 1.01 along with prescription-capable eyepro.
>>63942941
Plan is that once the backlog is cleared up and the infographics are polished, I'll put them all on Imgur or somewhere. By my count there are 28 infographics.

I need a recommendation for a good set of plates. I'm not in the military or police, nor do have a job where I need a weapon or have any risk of being shot, but I need the best NIJ certified plates that money can buy. What should I get?

>>63943839
What are your expected threats? Good ceramic Level III and IV both have upsides and downsides. NIJ certification is a mark of consistency, but if the manufacturer is highly reputable it's not a huge deal. For IV, it is very hard to go wrong with the LTC 26310. Avoid the Hesco 4800. For III, LTC 19513 covers all basic areas but falls short lightness-wise to the LTC 28791 - which is price gouged by Can't-ship-Apex to hell but is a great plate. LTC is very reputable, makes plates for SOCOM.
If you need higher protection, get a pair of REV. J ESAPIs. Higher than that, XSAPI. Make sure ESAPI / XSAPI are run with appropriate soft armor behind them. If you need a standalone XSAPI solution, LTC 28601 but sourcing that's a bitch.

Avoid RMA, hesitate Highcom, don't go with Adept until they get at least one NIJ cert under their belt.

>>63943940
Asking for opposite fact, nta. Looking for lightest plates that won't burn the bank but are rated to at least m855. More is a plus, but that's fast approaching lvl 4 pricing. Basically what's the best, cheapest legacy option out there?

Is there a [weapon mounted] light infographic?

>>63944531
Best choice is unironically the legacy SAPI, and sometimes surplus is available insanely cheaply. Just take into account that you need soft armor.

>>63939549
The fuck is that

>>63944619
It's a scope

>>63944531
Alright, so because you want M855 protection we're going to throw out the entire lot of all-PE plates. The lightest available options then are the 3.6lb Hesco 3811 and the Highcom 3S14M, same weight BUT the plate is undersized. The 3811 is sketchy and is part of Hesco's "likely underbuilt" cache of plates including the 3801, 3801LV, and 4800. There is a 3811LV but it seemingly hasn't been released yet. I do not trust that either.
These plates are NOT rated to defeat M855A1, which is a critical threat IMO. You don't want to break the bank either, so this calls for the LTC 19513.
It's about 5.4lb (9.5x12.5"), $760 a set, rated for M80, M193, M855, M855A1. It's a "III+" so it will lose to heavier hitters. M61, B-32 API, and of course M2AP. Make sure those threats aren't a problem.
Ironically it's III to III+ plates that are often much more expensive than IVs. Alumina ceramic is cheap, UHMWPE is comparatively not. You need more backer for Level III since it's a six-hit multi hit req, more ceramic for IV since it's a one-hit req against a much beefier steel-core threat.

TL;DR LTC 19513. Cheaper options are Militech RF2 Silicon Carbide and RMA's 1092 G2, neither of which are as reputable and both have caveats. The former is Chinese and relies on youtubers, zero NIJ certs too and they lie as to why they have none. The latter is from a company with a history of shenanigans and poor performance. See pic related.

>>63944632
Surplus SAPI mogs all. Also lighter than the 19513 even with a Kevlar backer.

>>63944614
The problem with this is threefold.
1. Original SAPIs are old plates, manufactured between 1998-2005 or so until they were replaced by ISAPI and later ESAPI. Can you guarantee their condition, especially when buying online? Tap and torque tests aren't always guarantees, they must be x-rayed to guarantee condition.
2. You don't just need any soft armor, you need soft armor adherent to FQ/PD 07–05 or better. Remember that plates have two functions. The ceramic shatters the projectile, the backer catches what's left. ICW plates omit the backer and use your soft armor to catch it. If your soft armor sucks? Well, shit.
3. You add soft armor and you're at about 5lb for a SAPI M-sized solution. Nearly the weight of an LTC 19513 but no ability against M855A1.

>>63944639
I see no M855A1 protection. It's an absurdly advanced plate... for 1998. If we're getting into the whole ICW plate game I say fuck it, go up to REV. J ESAPI. It's a heavier solution (1.5lb each plate) but adds 3x .30-06 M2AP and 3x 5.56 M995. Really, it's three pounds for front and back and covers everything common.

>>63944657
>>63944645
This is definitely the best he can do "cheap."
Thing is, you've got to catch a good pair at a surplus store or for less than $500 on eBay, which takes some effort.

>>63944662
And unless you x-ray them, you never really know if they work. Then add the cost of soft armor that isn't roached. The LTC 19513 also has double the multi-hit of the OG SAPI, at 6x M80 vs 3x. Now, this is a fringe capability but it matters in edge cases. Also matters for shot spacing purposes.
I agree good surplus SAPIs are cheaper, but it's a waiting and risk game. The LTC 19513 is far more plug and play, plus it's a more capable plate.

>>63944632
>>63944614
Thanks. Still working on my homework on all of this stuff. Primarily concerned with stopping pistol cartridges, so soft armor might work for me too. Wanted to find out more on in-conjuction/special threat type plates which might provide a means to upscale.

>>63944632
What are some of those PE plates by the way? Stopping m855 was wishful thinking just given the fact that a1 is the current hottness to stop. If there's some PE out there that will given at least some protection for 5.56 I'm all ears.

>>63944781
For real? In that case get solid soft armor now and buy SAPIs when they become available at a good price and in good condition.
Stealth Armor Systems has "budget" Kevlar that's like the old Army stuff. Should work well.

>>63944619
Some new vortex scope that is mil only.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw5KqFQMbhk

>>63944816
I agree with SAS soft armor, it's budget and good.
>>63944812
Most PE plates will easily clear M193 / 7.62x39 M80 but will lose to M855. Hesco 3800, then the lighter & more questionable 3801 / 3801LV. Alternative is the Highcom 3S15M but again watch sizing. LTC and Tencate also have good options.

>>63944816
Figured that might be my best option, but wasn't sure what all is out there. Stealth armor systems kevlar actually might work perfectly and then buy me time to get old sapi's. I get the whole xray thing as I recently converted an ach for nvg. Affect of age and modding on the rating? Your guess is as good as mine, but at a minimum it's at least better than nothing. Hopefully don't have to find out.
>>63944838
Will check those out too, thanks. At a minimum that should work for what I'm looking at.

>>63944781
And for SRTs, they cover M855, M193, and often M855A1 but get whacked by .308. Their strike face is thick but the backer is thin. Hesco L211, M210, U211. L211 is the budget, M210 mid range, U211 gucci. Also Highcom RSTP.
These are lighter than III+ usually or about the same weight, but heavier than all PE Level III.

>>63944859
Effect* Long day.

>>63944860
That was actually my first stop to look at m210's. Kind of balancing act between which (these, PE, sapi, soft, etc.) is best, but gets me a start.

>>63944893
I'd look at the D220s too. They add .308 but aren't good for M855A1. There was an old /bag/ urban legend that you could back Hesco SRTs with IIIA to stop .308 but there's little validity to that.
Are you certain there's nothing to justify stepping up to IV? Old SAPIs are good and all, but no M855A1 or M80A1 for that matter could be an issue.

>>63944908
>no M855A1 or M80A1 for that matter could be an issue
I don't think that SAPIs would fail to stop M855A1. They're pretty well-built ceramic plates, desu

>>63944632
Do you jack off and edge your cock to body armor like I do latina booty?

>>63944908
Added to the list. Seriously appreciate the help here. I remember hearing similar rumors when the l210's were really big. Only thing keeping me from iv is cost and weight really. A while back I had some old rma plates that felt like 7-8lbs a plate. Not a party there and I actually ended up selling the entire carrier as I was so disgusted with it. That was mostly on me though. On the flip side, you pay for what you get and there's always that practicality-vs-cost factor. I don't exactly like penny pinching here, but objectively 1k+ for gucci plates would be better spent elsewhere for me right now. I'm much more likely to face handgun and shotguns threats, so I'm all cash for meeting those minimums. If I end up facing a1 anything, I've likely got more problems than just armor goin on.

>>63944976
Sounds like you need soft armor, and get SAPIs or lightweight SRTs later. Problem solved.

>>63944949
Which one and at what velocity? Keep in mind SAPI, ESAPI, XSAPI etc are really requirements answered by multiple manufacturers. For SAPI, Ceradyne, BAE, Armorworks, Cercom, LTC, and more. So there's like ten models that are all SAPIs. Can't be so general, really.
They are boron carbide / SiC cermets, high end for the time, so to meet the reqs at the prescribed 4lb weight means not a whole of headroom. Remember, these are 1998 vintage.
The reqs are M80, M855, naturally M193 and 7.62x39 MSC, and 7.62x54R LPS - that one at reduced velocity. Notably, they do lose outright to 7.62x39 BZ API - which is why the ISAPI exists. BZ API is a sidegrade threat to M855A1. M855A1 is in neither plate's requirements.

>>63944978
Pretty much. Pending homework of course, but hearing what's all out there is a godsend. Some of this has changed since I was last looking at armor.

>>63944976
Sounds like 1155s. You were right to ditch those, NIJ suspended pieces of shit that can't even stand up to two Tulammo .308 at 100 meters.
Sounds like soft armor from Stealth is your call here. Remember, the more you wait the better plates will be available. However, surplus will dry up the more you wait. Less chance of getting screwed by debacles like the recent 4SAS4 shitshow.

>>63944998
>BZ API is a sidegrade threat to M855A1
> BZ API
Which one, anon? There are supposedly a million different types.
Has the SAPI ever been tested against the M855A1, BTW?
Besides, the guy's mostly concerned with handgun and shotgun threats. "Get soft armor first and cheap ICW plates later" is better advice than "get LPS 1231345097423 to stop M855A1!!!"

>63945029
I mean LTC, not LPS. I was looking at "LPS" in your post when I was writing that, lol.

>>63945024
Couldn't have said it better myself. They totally sucked to wear and even more so to ship (when sold) due to the weight. Looking like stealth is the best option here and appreciate the help. This is also true and exactly why I picked up an old ach at the time. Glad I missed the whole 4SAS4 stuff. Saw it kicking around but never really paid any of it much mind.

>>63945029
Burden of proof is on the plate for all of them.

>>63936258
just needs sling then g2g

>>63945058
The 4SAS4 was probably the second worst debacle of the past year, behind Shotstop. Armor is shady as hell and usually has at least one major scandal a year.

>>63945110
4SAS4 was worse than Shotstop.
I'd argue that Highcom's "Shooter Cut" being 9x11" was by itself worse than Shotstop.

>>63945136
Shotstop affected more people and led to the downfall of a whole company. It's also, by association, the only scratch on Tencate's flawless rep. Highcom is still standing. The sizing shenanigan thing is also an old trick, not just Highcom's.

>>63941879
Isn't the 4401 the swimmer's/shooter's cut version of SAPI 4400? 4403 series replaced the 4400 series.

>>63945151
Nobody has ever done it worse than Highcom, though. Tons of 10x12" plates are closer to 9.5x11.5", but I've never seen a straight-up 9x11" before.

>>63945483
No, the 4401 is the replacement for the 4400. Either plate could be sold in either shooters or SAPI cut, depends on vendor / end user. Once you're suspended for a FIT failure you cannot reinstate the same model unless it's some minor non-ballistic issue like with the LTC 26605, so Hesco resolved the issue and made the 4401. Per their head honcho Mr. Gray the 4401 was long in the tooth, so they replaced that with the 4403. There was a 4402 for like five minutes.
There is a 4400MC that was a multi curve of the 4400, technically a different model and not affected by the FIT. Under NIJ rules a mere difference in stitching on the cover makes a plate a different model.

Hesco has a really consistent naming system for most plates. First digit is the level. Second digit "tier", so 4 is low, 6 mid grade, 8 high. Third digit whether it's "reinforced" or not, like the 3810 has a ceramic strike face but the 3800 doesn't, and the fourth digit is iteration. 4400 initial, 4401 improved, 4403 improved again.

>>63945498
I'll take a 9x11" 4S17 with edge to edge coverage over a 10x12" RMA 1189 that really has 8x10" coverage that wasn't disclosed for five years.

what UCP cloths are those?

>>63945522
I have 2 SAPI cut 4400MCs that don't show they're NIJ certified but NIJ has 4400 listed shit's weird.

>>63945635
Yep, they aren't the same model. 4400 is single curve, 4400MC is multi curve. This is why Highcom shills claiming the new 4SAS4, which is multi curve, gets to share the old single curve 4SAS4 from 2008's .04 cert are all full of shit. The new 4SAS4 is not the same plate and is uncertified to any NIJ iteration. Major rug pull, that was.

Fun armor fact of the day. If Hesco wanted to go for 100% NIJ certification, they would need to certify the 3810 five times. 3810, 3810C, 3810B, 3810LPS, 3810LV (this wouldn't pass the conditioning reqs since the drop foam is gone) are all different models and must be certed individually.
I think a large part of why RMA is ass but gets a lot of newbs is because their lineup is tight and has little overlap. Hesco, LTC, Highcom, Tencate all have too many models and it's a huge pain in the ass.

>>63945615
ECWCS goretex jacket and pants

Fun armor fact of the day. If Hesco wanted to go for 100% NIJ certification, they would need to certify the 3810 four times. 3810, 3810B, 3810LPS, 3810LV (this wouldn't pass the conditioning reqs since the drop foam is gone) are all different models and must be certed individually. Then 3811 / 3811LV, then 3812 / 3812LV and maybe a 3812B, then the 3814 and probably a 3814LV - but that one is too heavy for a buoyant - B variant.
Then we have to repeat for the 600s and 400s. Then the Level IVs. All in all, Hesco's full lineup counting the black-side secret plates is likely over 50 plates.
I think a large part of why RMA is ass but gets a lot of newbs is because their lineup is tight and has little overlap.
1155, 1155MC, 1165, 1092, 1088, SRT, ESRT, XRT. Adept too. Thunder, Mantis, Colossus, Storm, then the Novasteel stuff. Done.
Hesco, LTC, Highcom, Tencate all have too many models and it's a huge pain in the ass.

>>63929644 (OP)
lol is that a woman

>>63945786
literally go outside more. please.

>>63945884
Just was, this was but only a shower thought!

amps vs wire hangers? What eapro is recommended here? Sordins still? Saw some limited info about retrofitting leights but unsure.

>>63945893
Howard Leights, 3M Rangeguards, Peltor Comtacs if you have some reason to connect a headset to a radio.

>>63939504
It holds your pants up.

>>63945893
>Sordins still?
Was there really a time when those were recommended? Last I was here everyone shit on them and said not to waste your money.

>>63946068
I've been out of the game for a minute, but last time I checked they were recommended but with caveats. What those were? I have no idea.

>>63946078
It was something about the plugs not being the right kind so you needed adapters or you just couldn't use certain stuff. I don't know shit about comms so it all flew right over my head.

>>63946068
It's a pain in the ass to add comms to sordins, and the gel cups ought to be standard. Other than that they're okay.

Alright, finally got the 1.00 version of the "used armor" infographic done. This is set up so it can be easily expanded down the road.
Of note is the VS-PBZSA plate. I forgot about this little sucker and it totally mogs the LTC 28791. Actual current price "new" is $1,180 a pop but availability is poor, so Apex is being a dick charging $5,000 flat for a pair of 28791s. Hypebeast plate tax. They're B4C+PE and weigh 1.4lb less than the LTC 19513, wow, amazing, totally worth like three Oneleafs. The VelSys is slightly lighter, thinner, and stops all the same threats. BZ API, M855A1, M80.

>>63946068
Comtacs were always the recommendation before Amps came around
Sordins were cope by people who got good deals on them
Howard Leights are the 1 true poorfag pick

>>63947978
Sounds like an earpro infographic could be useful.

>>63947978
>>63948051
Give me some time and I can see about putting something together. Finishing that ach helmet anyways, so roughly in a good spot to share info. Might be some overlap with comms too as I'm considering sending off a pair of leights for modding.

>>63948069
Where do you got for leight mods?

>>63948069
Good shit, I'll be happy to assist. Semi-unrelated, but I'll be putting Chinese earpro (blesh) and eyepro (eugh) in the Aliexpress side 2 infographic with the major caveat that their real noise reduction values are likely... shit. If anyone has evidence to the contrary I'd like to see it.
As for comms, I'm half-tempted to email Leixen and see if they'll do a USB-C digital version of the UV-25D. Huge market for that, esp if P-25 II is supported.

>>63948120
Everybody's eyepro is the same 2mm thickness of polycarbonate, so the Chinese stuff is probably all good if it fits well.

>>63948135
Akin to how a Militech and Tencate "III+" are both Aluminum oxide tile arrays backed by polyethylene, yes. Consistency and QC are the big questions there. Also, ANSI / MIL compliance would be nice.
And what about laser protection? That's the other big question lately. Not trying to bust your chops.

Speaking of ICW plates, how cooked am I if im wearing a lvl2 vest instead of 3a?

>>63948150
other than laser protection, eyepro seems like a meme
In most cases where eyepro matters the difference between ballistic eyepro and gas station sunglasses is probably not going to be a deciding factor on the outcome

>is there something between your eye and the dust/shrapnel?
>yes/no

>>63948173
half cooked
like a pizza with doughy crust

>>63948173
100% depends on the plate and soft armor. In theory, assuming the strike face did its job, the BFD from what's left of the projectile will just exceed the NIJ 44mm, which isn't automatically a killer but is technically a fail.
That is not a guarantee and, again, depends on the plate and soft armor. ICW plates are all over the place. Many need specified IIIA to stop any listed threats. Others are III standalone but need IIIA to make IV, others are single hit SA but with soft armor are multi hit, others are SRT standalone but are Level III with IIIA. Others do any of the above with just II.
>>63948191
True, but it's not a ballbuster to get something MIL compliant so you know the eyepro can stand up to testing and remain functional. Every advantage helps.

so which one /qg/?

It happened again saars I had another dream of 2030 /gq/ meta.
>1. We all waste our money.
Then I woke up.

>>63948634
Color.

>>63948634
Red light makes me really uneasy. I've tried it a few times with my LED lamps but I always change it after a minute or two because I don't like it. I don't trust anyone who enjoys that.

Alright, so allegedly LTC has an all-polyethylene plate able to defeat M855 called the 28855. Does anybody have specs on this or is this another bullshitto like the Hesco 3885 or the ISAPI revision E?

>>63948634
red of course
I want them to see me see them see me coming

>>63948699
>see me coming

>>63948707
Yes.
The succubi too shall be hunted and corrected.

>>63948722
>rape correction on a succubi
It's a bold move but I can't say I blame you for trying. What are some /gq/ approved swords? What's the best way to mount a zweihander to my plate carrier? Is there a way to integrate a short sword to my padded belt without sacrificing rifle mag storage?

>>63948694
There's literally no mention of it anywhere on the internet. It's probably bullshit.

>>63948791
One guy on reddit claims it exists, but I'm skeptical because it violates LTC's naming structure. If it starts with a 1, it's around Level III. If it starts with a 2, it's somewhere around Level IV.
This plate, the 28855, is numbered higher than the 28595, 28601, all somewhere below or greatly above Level IV, but is allegedly just an all-poly M855 stopper?
Me thinks Objective_Hamster ain't so objective.

>63948921
Samefagging here, but I forgot to mention the SRTs / TSA/LTOs. As for them, like the 28720, 28780, 28791, because they cover BZ API, I'd put them closer to Level IV than III on the imaginary scale even though M2AP would cream them. So it's not a super hard and fast naming system, but it's suspect to have an all-poly plate up there with BZ API / M855A1 plates unless it is capable of those threats - and that would mean LTC suddenly got ten years ahead of everybody else.

>>63948921
Random retard on Reddit isn't a reliable source for anything at all.
Also, LTC needs to straighten their shit out. Their bizarre and retarded naming conventions are costing them 70% of their potential customers. Not that they care about retail.
Maybe it's on purpose? Like "okay we'll sell retail, stop pestering us, but we're going to stick with retarded model names and make 100 different models of everything. Fuck consoomers lol"

>>63948974
I agree completely. Like I said before, the companies with tight lineups are a lot more attractive to armor newbies. RMA has less than ten models and the lineup is super easy. Same goes for Adept. On paper, Hesco has more than fifty models, and so does LTC.
Hesco's numbers are decodeable but LTC is a mess. My best guess is that 1XXXX is basic, 2XXXX is advanced. Now how about Ceradyne? What's a better plate, 96034, 95648, VI-10, 2572575, or D275?

>>63948974
Also forgot to mention, LTC seemingly has a roughly ten year delay on civilian sales for their top plates. The 28791 and 28590 are respectively about 10 and 12 years old. 28601 also about eleven. The 28595 is only prohibited because it's still SOCOM-issue.
If this bullshitto 28855 does really exist, Apex / Hoplite won't be able to sell the fucker until 2035-2036. Let's revisit this in ten years, at which point we'll be arguing over whether we can trust Hesco after the 4407 got suspended.

>>63948756
magnets?

>>63949130
>>63948756
Yes actually.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806854133363.html

Got the header done. More to come later. Might be a thread or two.

>>63949634
Looks good bro

Quick updates to the Advanced plate guide. Going off the 3810LV, 3800LV, and 3802LV, we've got pretty solid confirmation the 3801LV is advertised by Verretts wrong and is in fact an ICW IIIA plate. They're calling it a standalone. Not only does Hesco have a weird naming system, they also need to get their vendors in line.
Also added the Combat Systems RF2 All-PE plate. This stops M855 without a ceramic strike face. It's expensive as shit for a 4.18lb PE plate and the only advantage it offers over, say, a 3811 is hypothetical reduced shot spacing. It likely has no headroom (not like Hesco's have much...) and will get shwacked by M855A1.

>>63949634
earplugs, MSA sordins and comtacs
there i've done you're approved list, anything else doesn't exist

Also updated the fed-boi plate guide. For those who haven't seen this one before, it segregates all the esoteric plates from the original /bag/ guide into their own gallery.
I added the "Bullshitto Corner" to document plates we can't verify actually exist but can't verify they don't exist either. Specs are deductions based on competitors and past models.

>>63949679
To keep it consistent with the newer guides, I suggest putting a diamond next to the sordins and comtacs.
Unrelated, here's the updated Euro armor guide. Quick note. Apparently Buffman's got an upcoming "re-test" of the Colossus where it stops 7N37 and 7.92x57 SmKH. For those not familiar, 7.62x54R 7N37 is a large-core XSAPI killer and 7.92x57 SmKH is the tungsten heavy alloy WW2-era round that the Colossus had trouble with last time. I don't know if the plate is the regular Colossus or it's a proto upgraded model.

>>63949684
I unironically think that the Hescos and LTC 28855 no longer exist or never existed.

>>63949741
JC, to determine the Hesco situation we need to look at Manderley's secret files.
1. Hesco started their body armor business in 2014 when they bought out Reed Composite Solutions. They inherited a range of models. 4400, 4600, a 4610, 3400, 3590, 1520, 3600, 3410, 3610. At this time they likely also had the 4800 but it was probably black-side until 2018 when it released to the public.
2. At the same time they also had the 4520, which was the 5.4lb ICW IIIA XSAPI that lost the FBI contract to the LTC 28601. We can verify this plate existed at a time. Can't verify it worked.
3. Many of Hesco's inherited plates, 4400, 4600, 3410, 3610, all got NIJ suspensions. Poorly heat-treated ceramic strike faces. This is a supplier issue because Hesco doesn't make their own ceramics. It's usually either Bitossi or St. Gobain. The fact Hesco didn't check this shit meant either their staff from Reed didn't know what they were doing or, more likely, they had brain drain. Could be both.
4. All of Hesco's latest plates (3802, 3812, 4801, 4601) are downgrades from their predecessors, suggesting it's not really just the strike face and the plates also are underbuilt. Again, also brain drain. 3801 / 3811 are anomalies and probably underbuilt / run hot on BFD.
5. Accordingly, the 4520 is probably also underbuilt. The 3814 is fucking mediocre.
6. The 3885 is superior to any known LTC or Tencate plate, they're companies with much greater resources than Hesco. It's comparable to a Ceradyne made at the company's height in 2007.
7. Ergo, it follows the 4520 is no longer on the table because brain drain and the 3885, if it does exist, means Hesco arbitrarily settled on their civie lineup sucking balls. LTC and Tencate do the same thing so that's not impossible.

As for the 28855, all-PE M855 stoppers are a thing but they're heavier / thicker than equivalent ceramics, plus also much more expensive. Combat Systems can do it (apparently), so LTC can do it if a literal who can do it.

>>63949777
Digits.
>the 3885, if it does exist, means Hesco arbitrarily settled on their civie lineup sucking balls
This is where it falls apart, because Hesco were cool with releasing the ridiculously underbuilt 4800 to one-up the civvie-side competition. Say what you will about Buffman, it's lmao-tier that certain plates just fail on the first shot and he publishes the videos despite getting into trouble.
> Combat Systems can do it (apparently), so LTC can do it if a literal who can do it.
Who?
Anyway, LTC supposedly get decent ceramics and know what they're doing, so why would they resort to this? It's literally just a meme plate.

>>63949634
Looking forward to it, actually

>>63949679
Howard lights with noisefighters?

>>63949827
I guess those are alright. Do you have them? What do you think?

>>63949829
They got me through several years just fine until I needed something good for helmet mounting and got comtacs. Even without the noisefighters they got the job done.

NEW: >>63949852
NEW: >>63949852
NEW: >>63949852
NEW: >>63949852
NEW: >>63949852

>>63949796
>4800
And reddit was drumming the 4800 as REV. J ESAPI standalone. 3x M2AP or 3x M995. This is why you don't get armor advice from /r/tacticalgear. The new 4801 is around 5.5lb. Major downgrade. Could be SiC with that weight.
>Combat Systems
EU-based outfit, we've discussed them before. No certs, business address is sketchy, their RF2 all-PE is inferior to a Hesco 3810B in virtually every way and costs too much for its advantages. Nice effort but it's not impressive unless positive buoyancy is a must-have and shot spacing limit needs to be tight.
>28855
Two reasons I think.
1. Armor companies rarely make plates bespoke. Models share components with other models. Hesco 3810 is the 3800 with an Alumina strike face added. The L211 is the 4403 with a lot of backer removed. RMA XRT is a Level IV with backer reduced. This simplifies production and saves money.
Accordingly, the LTC 28855, using a new form of PE, is probably just a backer-only, sans-strike-face companion to some badass boron carbide plate - probably gunning for one of the GEN-6B SOCOM contracts. Backer is stronger, so we can thin the strike face a little. PE is lighter than B4C. No ceramics are presently available lighter than B4C.
2. It's a proof of concept for future all-PE plates, and this technology will eventually get us under the weight floor (3.5lb) of ceramic-PE M855 III+. Ceramics aren't moving, so alternate routes have to be taken.

>>63948120
>If anyone has evidence to the contrary I'd like to see it.
I have cheap 3m electric ear pro, china amps knockoff, and real Comtacs. Comtacs are waterproof so you know it will work in bad conditions and is a little better with noise reduction software ie shorter cutoff time for loud noise. They all do a decent job cutting the DBs out none have left my ears ringing after a day shooting outdoors but I would double up with any of them in a indoor range.

>>63949394
>not available to ship in your region
fml