Thread 64127553

Among those that are or were widely used and successful. No duds, failures, or firearms that are outright unsafe.

FiveseveN

>>64127557
doesn't it jam often, or at least to an unacceptable degree?

Obviously the SCAR. IMO its just a way overpriced but otherwise decent gun and not worthy of further comment, but any time it gets mentioned there's a panicked almost desperate rush to point out that stock looks like a shoe (omg who gives a fuck) and it has a recoil impulse that some optics don't like, and the warranty doesn't cover suppressor use. Almost like if anons reputations hinge on the Scar not being that good. And maybe it does, because if the Scar really was good and you don't own one, they you're obviously a gay little broke boy with a small penis, bad teeth, thin hair and bad credit. Or something like that.

>>64127553 (OP)
11.5 inch PSA AR-15

>>64127553 (OP)
Anything developed in china or turkey im assuming

>>64127553 (OP)
any PSA AR. Consoomers are mad you didn't waste thousands of dollars on overpriced guns like they did after their e-daddy guntuber eceleb idols told them to.

I don't think that OP picrel the MP5 select fire submachine gun generates seethe, on the contrary everyone likes it.
What generates seethe is all the retards in civilian-land aka Flatland that try to replicate a submachine gun as an 'SBR' or 'PCC' by paying thousands of dollars in license/stamp fees and conversion parts tooling and machining only to end up with a semiauto firearm. That's what causes seethe
And none of that seethe should even exist to begin with since the NFA 1934 is unconstitutional and we should all have select fire MP5s

>>64127599
>the SCAR
checked, always thought the SCAR-H was kinda desireable

>>64127869
Blame /arg/ for that

>>64127869
PSA or no but I have experience with other poorfag ARs and they are not as gud
Low-mid range ARs are usually alright

>>64127590
I've never herd that, and mine runs flawlessly

>>64127929
>civilian-land aka Flatland
what

>>64127929
I agree but super safeties and frts are coming out for everything it seems. I've got a friend with a kiss vector and I used to give him mountains of shit over it, until he sent me a video of some guntuber with a 3 position frt in his. It's not full auto, but for most until the nfa dies, it's as close as most can get.

>>64128169
Shittily coded bot or ESL, do not engage either way

>>64127590
no

>>64127726
That's only due to the usual polish gloating of a polished turd.
It's just a basic bitch AR-18 clone that had quite a few issues in every version they produced, yet poles still want to larp as if they reinvented the wheel.

>>64128169
>>64128182
Fuck off glownigger cannon-fodder volunteer gaping trannies.

>>64127929
>>64128173
Generally I see your point and somewhat agree, but if it moves the needle more towards general acceptance that F/A (or simulated F/A) are more or less commonplace in American society, I'm all for it.
With enough development, sales, and time, nobody will even care if you've got a third pinhole on a lower, regardless of what the law says.
Kind of like how marijuana has become widely acceptable over the past few years, even as it remains federally verboten.

>>64129548
Understood and I see what you're saying.
Whether the ATF and enforcement of NFA ever moves in that direction is another matter.

Which begs the further question:
in terms of how the presence of full auto weapons in physical reality affect *local and regional/state* law enforcement activities and performance, do the state police and local cops actually care about criminals having full auto firearms or for that matter redneck civilians out in the sticks, having them?
How does it actually affect their operations, that is, without the federal NFA and ATF doing their enforcement duties on full auto possession would local LE even care?

(Yeah ignore the procedural question 'as sworn LE officers' the local/state police are obligated to carry out all laws; talking here about the actual impact on the local/regional departments' operations and safety)

>>64129573
Local deputy sheriff here in nowhere west Virginia is mad pistol braced ARs and AKs exist, I can only imagine how much SSs and FRTs makes him (them) seethe.

>>64127553 (OP)
Honestly at this point revolvers, shotguns, and .45 acp seem to be big buttons for most of the dunning-kruger types in the firearms community. Talking about any of them positively just about universally guarantees people showing up to shit and piss themselves in anger over how "useless" they are. Honorable mention to PCCs but I really don't think the hate is as extreme

>>64129595
>revolvers, shotguns, and .45 acp
>6 rounds in 2025
one of these things does not belong

>>64129591
Yeah but is he one of the "guns for me and not for thee" deputy sheriffs?
Also he's a deputy, what does the sheriff himself out there say

>>64129602
Point proven

>Glock
I hate em and I don't think they're good but they clearly are popular and widely accepted. It'd be one thing if it was military procurement and police procurement that had an eye to cheapness but even fancy pants special forces value it.

A duality of poorfags hating >>64127599 and conspicuous consumption fags hating >>64127869

>>64129595
>>64129602
>>64129678
I want an upgraded (with new Plus trigger) Shield 45 for carry

>>64128173
Sure I see what you're saying and what you mean.
For me, although I understand and respect the frt folks and have checked it out, it's a cope. NFA needs to die and none of us ought or would be larping in this manner

>>64127553 (OP)

Never seen a soul detest the MP5 in any shape or form.

In all honesty, I'd probably go with the Keltec sub2000. There's nothing wrong with it, serves it purpose, and is cheap.

>>64129737
The should make the new CSX in .45. They would probably get less than 5 rounds in the magazine, but I would get one for the lols.

>>64129602
Civilian DGUs where the 7-8 rounds of full power .357 magnum a full sized revolver can fit would be insufficient are effectively non-existent. Hell, you'd be fine with .38s too.

>>64129573
In my midwestern shithole the police and prosecutors are hard coded to mostly ignore blacks with glock switches. $1000 bond for an attempted shooting by a multiple felon with a switch is pretty common. Everyone else has to see the man but blacks are given a machine gun pass until they commit actual murder.

>>64127553 (OP)
turkish shit
especially the 'good enough' stuff

>>64130087
I don't see the problem with 5- or 6-round capacity .45 ACP micro-subcompacts (that are polymer frame, not 1911-derivative) for carry. It's a good niche and ought be exploited

>>64130238
Ironic that you make this post in response to a thread that opened with a picture of an MP5. We’re at the point where people recommend turkshit clones over an actual HK SP5.

>>64130296
I mean when you look into why it makes sense.

>>64130232
Right, this is part of what I was alluding to in my post you replied to. The cops in some of these "guns for me and not for thee" urban blue population center-type areas, are all: "we gots to do sumpthin' about muh gun violence" but when gangbangers run rampant with switches it's : "machine guns don't matter." Probably the most egregious example of selective enforcement in America today.
>machine guns are Evil and The Devil, no human being can possess them
>glock switch? nothing to see here
And as we both know, the cases you mentioned it probably doesn't matter anyway whether they had/used a glock with switch or not
In current America (mostly the urban center shitholes) the most 'common' prevalence of full auto being used in violent crime is glock switches. And it's being selectively/not enforced as an NFA violation
Wasn't that the purpose of 1934 NFA's machine gun restriction, to put the kabosh on gangsters using them? Or did I miss something

>>64130288
Low capacity, with a big heavy bullet. People already trust their lives to .380 guns with 6-7 round capacity, so I think the recoil would be the main sticking point. I don't know how well .45 preforms out of a short barrel, but it seems like it be would a waste because it's already slow, and it is going to be even slower with a subcompact.

CSX is nice because it is a 1911-ish design, but without the 1911 autism and reliability issues. I personally just don't trust striker fired guns for carry; I strongly prefer something with a hammer and an external safety for that task.

>It's a good niche
That's precisely the problem. It's a niche. Gun companies aren't going to go the through the trouble of making something that is going to appeal to only a handful of internet gun nerds.

>>64130232
>>64130312
But what I was really getting at, in that first post was:
Do criminals possessing machine guns, actually *present a safety hazard to the LEOs* that are performing operations?
That's what I meant by giving them, the law enforcement agencies themselves and their field personnel, *additional incentive* to "crack down on MGs" because it's such an increased magnitude of physical hazard in comparison to same gangbangers using semiauto firearms. What is the difference, to them (the LEOs) if any in the field? Are they more 'threatened' by hoodrats having MGs than if <--they did not (because the hoodrats already are deadly enough w/ semiautos)?
I'm not seeing how these astronauts having machine pistols makes them *that much more hazardous* to most LEOs doing their job in the field daily, than they already are without handheld MGs (or any other type of full auto). Let alone hazardous enough to think that:
>'Due to the machine gun hazard in Chiraq at the present time, all patrolling officers will now enforce the 1934 National Firearms Act to the full extent of the law'
Why would that type of 'additional danger' to patrolling LEOs, from glock switches (the LEOs and public are already in enough danger from recidivist hoodrats w/ their stolen guns as it is) make them, as street-beat cops, 'more gung ho' about enforcing NFA?

It's not a public safety (or LEO officer safety) issue, is what I'm saying. MGs don't make street violent crime 'more dangerous'/deadly than it already fucking is. Or at least, law enforcement agencies at the local level can't make up an excuse or reasoning, or document, that it is.


(Yes the selective prosecution / piling on charges-or not after the fact is an issue with regard to skin color of the perp and the corrupt justice system up-the-chain of prosecutors, DAs etc. This, rather, is about whether or not the LEO agencies themselves and their personnel feel 'additionally threatened' by MGs in the field)

>>64130348
Might as well get a Commander-smaller 1911 then. I like the Shield 45 and am still waiting for an upgraded/Plus version. It recoils fine, no more obtrusive than other Shields (for those looking to cross-over) or smaller .380s
Yes, it's a niche.

what fake thread gettin the most engagement?

>>64130368
There are no real threads on /k/
and /hg/ /arg/ are by a long margin the fakest

>>64130363
I've always heard that commander/officers are very finicky and unreliable, even by 1911 standards. I would just carry a full sized government profile one at that point. They are surprisingly concealable if you have the right body shape and holster set-up, especially if you throw a hoodie over it.

>>64130356
The NFA was always a racist law. The government passed it because they were scared of Italian, Irish, and Jewish gangsters having machine guns, and now they only enforce it against white people while turning a blind eye to black people having them. Allowing criminals to have machine guns while prohibiting law abiding people from having them is nothing but anarcho-tyranny.

>>64130368
I don't care about the Slavic chimp-out. And I am sick of having my tax money going to it. I am here to talk/shitpost about guns, not geopolitics.

>>64130410
>was always a racist law
Could be—in terms of how it is enforced, and perhaps how some of its drafters conceived it from outset—but they (ATF, others) claim it's for public safety.
That's the point. How are patrolling LEOs on the street (or us public masses) "more" threatened by MGs when they won't even bother enforcing the NFA itself.
I'm not feeling too compassionate about 'law enforcers' in this particular instance.

(yes it's anarcho-tyranny)

>>64130410
>commander/officers are finicky
It's one reason I like the Shield 45, and the idea/concept of it.
(even compared for example to compact 45s such as the HK 45C, which is a superb pistol)
Shield is a reliable proven striker/polymer frame platform, nothing exceptional but it works for self defense. It's thinner and lighter than the HK 45C

>>64130296
the magnitude of seethe coming for turkish mp5s is fun

>>64130443
NTA but my pet theory is that part of the reason why switches are ignored is because the ATF allowed a bunch into the country as part of a sting attempt and they fumbled the ball. Now they want it buried.

>>64130443
>but they (ATF, others) claim it's for public safety
Of course they are going to say that. Do you think they are really going to come out and say "fuck you, white boy" even in 2025 while people are getting shot up by future astronauts armed with da Glock anda switch in places like Chicago, Philadelphia, etc.?
>I'm not feeling too compassionate about 'law enforcers' in this particular instance.
The Feds are a shit, but the real problem is with the legislatures who write these shitty laws in the first place. Police don't make the laws, they just enforce them as they are written.

>>64130464
I was browsing Gunjoker for shits and giggles and apparently subcompact .45s are already a thing, just not very common.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1112784519
It's not a Shield, but it's something about that size.

>>64130567
Why pay 3k for an HK when I can pay 1800 for an ap5. Why pay 1800 for an ap5 when I can pay 1000 for a mac 5. I'm waiting for someone to come out with a $500 mp5 clone so I can buy it and watch all the faggots on this board seethe.

>>64130607
>Of course
Again, never mind the race aspect we already agree that from a top-down enforcement within prosecutorial/judicial system that is corrupt (similar to the Dirty Dozen states that ignore U.S. Supreme Court actively trying to grab law abiding citizens' magazines/guns/whatever)

>police just enforce
Yes. (and they -->aren't enforcing NFA here)
I'm talking about the boots-on-ground street LEOs, daily activity. Why does it matter, to them, whether Timmy has a switch or regular glock?
**FROM THE COP'S DAILY SHIFT PERSPECTIVE** (not the judge prosecutors system, all of it corrupt) And also the cop wanting to 'get home safe' that day.
Each switch-or-no-switch is equally deadly and capable of blowing Officer Friendly away.
Why would that, incentivize these LEOs to more aggressively enforce NFA? Doesn't make them, or us, safer. Timmy still gonna be out there with a stolen glock (switch or no switch)
Respond please. Do not mention race.

>>64130579
Yes I partially subscribe to this (would like to see more evidence)

>>64130296
>>64130299
Semiauto MP5s (HK brand or not) are a waste of resources and time.

>>64130677
>a waste of resources and time.
they're fun and require no further validation or defense other than that.

>>64130681
Sure, notice my post didn't say anything about that
enjoy

(I'd personally shovel same resources, time into other firearms and non-firearms pursuits)

>>64130685
fun isn't a waste.

>>64129853
>Keltec sub2000
I used to think these were neat when they first came out, but after giving some consideration to PCCs more broadly, the foldable/backpack carbine concept, and how they actually shoot (would prefer other small-rifle choices), gave up on it.

>>64130677
yea yea, and anything but a glock 19, a pocket gun, and a basic bitch AR are a waste of time unless you hunt. MP5 clones still make sense if youre in the PCC market.

>>64130689
nor did I say so
Whatever floats everyone's boat, far be it from me

>>64130677
The only people who say this haven't really tried them out. Not understanding why a compact, accurate, reliable rifle that shoots a cheap, commonly available, effective, round with zero recoil and suppresses wonderfully is just willful obtuseness. I guess it's just the cool thing to sneer down on these days since they're popular.

>>64127553 (OP)
Online? Anything Chinese. Stuff you can actually buy? Turkish shotguns/clones.

But really the biggest seethe topic is ARs since there are so many and so modular so there are endless things for tards to nitpick about.

>>64130356
>MGs don't make street violent crime 'more dangerous'/deadly than it already fucking is.
If anything, retarded nigs running around with swtiches and drum mags makes Police safer since it throws off their aim.

>>64127929
>What generates seethe is all the retards in civilian-land aka Flatland that try to replicate a submachine gun as an 'SBR' or 'PCC' by paying thousands of dollars in license/stamp fees and conversion parts tooling and machining only to end up with a semiauto firearm
What? Pay like $900 for an AP5 on sale, get a stock for $50, drop $200 on a stamp (which is also going away in a few months). Boom, seimauto MP5 clone. Where are you getting "thousands" from? What conversion parts? Someone help me make sense of this.

>>64130752
Exactly.
My thought (from a street cop POV) would be: How can those retards even hit anything? Sure it might ? increase the 'random' hit probability due to rate of fire bullethose but the perps sure as fuck aren't "aiming" at anything.
At least if they had FA AKs (even pistol/stockless SBRs), it'd be "more accurate" than glocks with switches

Anyway there's not a lot of testimony or evidence out there, from LE agencies/personnel themselves, about how much "more difficult" or deadly their daily operations are due to *actual presence of MGs* on the street.
Not talking about retrospective analyses (e.g. the '86 FBI gunfight), or 'projected threat' PowerPoints of some hypothetical 'Heat' scenario (a bunch of bank robbers armed with select fire rifles) that never happened. Actual evidence that the cops in, let's say Chicago, are having a more difficult/dangerous time of it, now that glock switches appeared in comparison to when they weren't as prevalent, or absent. (Especially when they're not even charging NFA violations on the perps as a deterrent)

>>64130766
checked There are cheapo ways to do it, yes

>>64130744
>compact
For a given choice of LOP and barrel length, not particularly. Despite shooting a round gimped for the purpose, it isn't grip-fed. Nor is it a bullpup. It's got a trigger as far back behind the chamber as that of a standard modern intermediate caliber rifle, but an inch lower.
MP5 does as well at having a collapsible stock as is standard of guns offering them, if we acknowledge that M4 style stocks are just LOP adjustable with a bad choice, rather than genuinely designed to meaningfully collapse for carry.

>>64128039
Broke: 11.5 inch psa
Woke: Bersa BAR15

Any model of AK.

>>64131295
The appeal of the MP5 is that it is full auto / select fire. Period end.
same with any other submachine gun

>>64127745
Based 11.5" PSA poster

>>64127590
nope.

>>64127590
no just a big flash

>>64132249
Retard

>>64135277
checked, (You) certifying the OP topic

>>64131440
>Any
some are better / more tolerable than others

>>64130348
I like the idea of the CSX, and in an ideal world I'd also prefer a hammer/safety gun, but when I handled the CSX I felt like the safety was too low profile and stiff enough that I have concerns about reliably disengaging it under stress.

>>64129702
I've never really understood the price-based hate on Glock. Yeah, there are other striker guns that are cheaper, but it's not like they're $900 or something either, you pay maybe $100 over the cheapest big name striker guns and and that gets wiped out pretty quick when it's time to buy mags since you can get Magpuls for like $10 a pop instead of the $35+ mags of everything else.

>>64127553 (OP)
AMD 65
PSA anything
Glock and gen 3 clones
Hi Point anything
Anything French or Italian other than Beretta/Benelli
.40 anything
(Product) made by Sig, Ruger, S&W or Colt
Bonus redemption round: Taurus, who somehow flipped overwhelmingly bad reputation to overwhelmingly good in like a decade.
My own personal seethe is the Beretta CX4, my buddy spent our entire childhoods hyping it up and then forced us to rent one one time and it's the biggest piece of nerf gun shit I've ever touched. The only cool thing about it was that it takes different magazines that you might already have laying around depending on the model.
>>64129853
>Never seen a soul detest the MP5 in any shape or form.
People despised the sp5 on release, most people would probably still go buy a turk first.

>>64138748
>People despised
people despise PCCs and SBRs / other frankenstein 'muh conversion' taxstamped semiauto slop. Give us select fire full auto submachine guns

>>64130662
>Washington
Daily reminder that most Washingtonians are hasguns living out in the forest and mountains and/or out in the farmlands in East WA, being largely ignored by Olympia and Seattle, which is where all the cancer is. Two small tactical nukes would instantly turn WA into a permanent red state - the people here just want to be left alone. About a third of the state is Alaska with Less Cold and another half or so is Montana with Less Dry.

>>64139113
Post a gun you own.

>>64139331
yes King County is The Problem

>>64139339
Fuck (You) faggot. Fuck off.

oh and:
FUCK (You).

and additionally:
FUCK (You).

>>64139339
And in case (You) didn't get the message:
FUCK (You).

>>64139339
he doesn't have on lmao

>>64139646
Come over to my house arfboomercombro and you'll get the first person complete arsenal tour.
Lmaooooooo

>>64129737
>want an upgraded (with new Plus trigger) Shield 45 for carry

>>64138748
>Beretta CX4
some people have said that in .45 ACP they're worthwhile

>>64141144
Alot of AR fagmuffins larping as FAL boomers dickride the G3 on ergonomics.
No there's an entirely different manual of arms
Manipulate the safety on the transition from low ready to high and attach your sling to the charging handle so you can get leverage on the rollers - problem mostly solved and otherwise minor

>>64144160
heh, ok

>>64130288
I like them but a lot of the really small ones frequently have jamming issues. I think the cco is the sweet spot for 1911s but I haven't seen a good nib one for a reasonable price in a while. For a little bit every company that made 1911s had one but now nothing.

>>64144359
>frequently have jamming issues
The 1911-pattern ones, correct?
Not my experience with (for one) Shield 45, which is just as good as standard 9 mm Shield. That's what my post (You) replied to was about, the non-1911 subcompacts of which there aren't many
(the Dan Wesson CCO is a Commander-sized compact .45, yes nice guns but that's a step larger than what I'm discussing)

>>64130238
A number of Turkish firearms and brands are gtg
the seethe is about that government

>>64132781
This or the Mini-14 causes every ARetard to have a screeching meltdown and start throwing up InRange videos and other guntube garbage on how they're the worst rifles ever.
>beloved by their users and have the high score (Mini-14) against commies and glowies
M14's on Mars.

>>64145570
thing is, back in the 70s and 80s both the M1A and Mini-14 were well known 'top selling' popular semi auto rifles so a lot of people did and do own them
this was before the AR-15 had become really popular or a top seller (or the 'multi-modular' Toyota Camry it's known as today), there was only the SP-1 from Colt

>>64145552
No other weapon has such a rich history of custom smithing and optimisation for competition, carry, race, and target use. No Glock, no wonder nine, no matter how tricked out can hold a candle to the pinnacle of pistolsmithing. Christ himself ordained the 1911 as the chosen gat of the heavenly kingdom.

>>64144911
Yeah what I'm saying is I wouldn't go smaller than a cco because I've heard a lot of people having problems with anything smaller. I've heard of problems with that dan Wesson cco too for that matter.

>>64145118
And the people of the country

>>64147121
No species is responsible for their government, which intentionally keeps all species at each others throats

>>64127590
The actual criticism is that the round was created to defeat body armor at close ranges and the round is likely to overpenetrate if used on soft targets, through walls etc. In comparison to 5.56 (Which obviously you wouldn't put in a true handgun because of it's length) the round is significantly heavier so it carries more energy through whatever it hits.
I don't own a Five seven so I haven't looked for hollowpoints or anything to help limit that overpen, but it would indeed be required if someone were to consider carrying one to defend themselves. So few people without military training have the thought process drilled into their brain to see a target and immediately analyze whether it's safe for everyone else around, or behind whatever wall they're in front of. Even trained men make that mistake under stress.
So basically the FiveseveN is really cool and I think very well designed for it's use case, military, and not great for personal carry.
Other people complain about difficulty concealing it, or the ambi safety, but ultimately it was not made for concealed carry, and if you intend on using the gun you should train with it enough that the safety location isn't an issue.

>>64127599
I mean I don't think there's any reason NOT to own one.
But there is a reason it had a relatively short lived career in use. It's not really great at what it was designed for, which is "Everything". Peak Army modularity push. It's good at some things, but generally now the Army has different weapons to fill each role the SCAR was supposed to, and there are reasons beyond choosing a new company to contract and pay tons of money.

>>64145552
I think it's practically mandatory to own a 1911. Specifically, I think it's mandatory to own a random 1911 which you don't previously know the reliability of.
Wonderful gun, the grip angle is perfection, the width of the single stack .45 is fantastic, can be incredibly reliable if made by the right people.
It's a beautiful weapon, great history, it's just outdated now.
Pistol rounds don't cavitate like rifle rounds so the actual greater effect in power from a .45 compared to a 9mm on humans is nonexistant and more holes are better.
More bullets, less recoil (although it's not like a 1911 has much recoil because of it's amazing design, there are 9mm pistols that recoil much worse) and the average production quality dropping are all valid reasons to dislike the 1911 for carry.
But it can be an amazing race or target pistol. Hell, if you've got a 'stendo it's not too bad for home protection, either.

>>64147561
Weird.

>>64147561
The effect is in felt, not terminal ballistics. It imparts its energy more efficiently because its penetrative and wounding power in flesh is lesser than typical 9mm. It stops faster and produces more of a blunt force effect, which is what a drugged up Filipino Beserkers would feel upon getting shot, not so much from a smaller .38. Think getting hit with a golfball thrown by an MLB champion pitcher, or a baseball thrown by the pitcher of a top 3 regional college team. It's that principle of what's going to mentally hurt more, ie, "stopping power". In truth, when you're not dealing with juiced up Gooks, a 9mm is simply better.

>>64146986
Sure I get it.
What I'm trying to recall is some of those sub-Commander size 1911s in .45 ACP from the old '80s gun magazines. Weren't there two or three different brands of those? AMT (?)

Można kupić

>>64149769
>he doesn't know how to calculate for ft-lbs
.45 doesn't thump like you think it do

>>64145552
M 1902 > M 1911

>>64127763
>developed in china
Are any of these sold in the U.S.?
not talking about Norinco clone stuff, the more modern post-1980s China mil small arms

>>64128492
its not a bad gun, quite overpriced though. But most guns are overpriced in Poland.

>>64150705
It's a gun that jams often and cracks due to various issues even at the third iteration. Once they manage to fix all that it will still be inferior to a basic bitch AR-15. It's only usefulness is that it gives jobs to some poles.

>>64151195
if the NFA didn't exist I'd have one in the safe.
(yes the submachine gun select fire from the factory)

The Desert Eagle. It was never intended as a police or military firearm but, because Hollywood and vidya portrayed it as such, it is judged unfairly for being "impractical".

>>64154752
DEs are dumb.

>>64154752
>for being "impractical".
which it is

>>64127553 (OP)
1911
two world wars

>>64146197
The AR15's popularity is really a perfect storm, not on how good the rifle (it's mediocre at best) but a combination of factors.
>9/11-GWOT
>end of the Assault Weapons Ban
>end of Colt patent
>CAD machining becomes cheap
>FPS games explode
>the governments repeated fuck ups

>>64147464
Wut? This is some no gunz shit
>substantially heavier
The heaviest loads for 5.7 are like 40-41grain. Far under the standard 55-62 grain crap for 5.56. The AP stuff for 5.7 is like 23-29grains. 99% of the 5.7 ammo on the market is hollow point.

>>64147464
5.7 is lighter and carries half the energy of a 5.56 round.

>>64156756
I think that's a good rundown of its post-1990s 'boost' in popularity.
Need to point out there, that's the popularity of the M4gery AR-15
the AR-15 as a platform is more than just the M4 carbine.
decades before the M4, the Colt SP1 was sold widely in the civilian market.
The AR-15 is a good rifle, it's just not the be-all end-all that the current popularity reflects. I'm glad it's widely used because it strengthens our Second Amendment simply by being in the hands of so many Americans, that is good.

>>64130744
You lost me at effective, it's still fucking 9mm.
Super fun to shoot though.

>>64157041
You lost me at
>its still fucking 9mm
As if 9mm hasnt killed people at hundreds of meters.

>>64155197
>>64155294
Point proven, seethe.

>>64127553 (OP)
The spandau

>>64157064
No, (You)'re just a brainlet.

>>64158554
Still seething. The Desert Eagle is perfectly fine at target shooting. People who bitch about it not being "practical" are either retarded boomers or get their opinions YouTube grifters.

>>64158768
Nobody cares midwit

>>64157041
You're a contrarian clown, congrats

>>64127599
Probably this.
>>64147506
I dunno, if it wasn’t for the price, it’d arguably be peak modern battle rifle. The modularity is nice, it’s very well made, it’s just a really nice gun. Just not $4,000-tier nice. Unless you want something easy to make F/A, the best option is a nice AR-10.
>>64155294
>Big sexy pistol firing beeg boolets
>Not so big that it isn’t very easy to carry in a nice shoulder rig
It’s hardly worse than something like a 92FS for a carry or HD gun.

>>64154752
What was it intended for anyway?

>>64150086
Yeah there's been a bunch of them, the colt mustangs and defenders are the ones that really come to mind as far as them not working well, SIG still makes one that people usually like I think there were some from different Saturday night special companies

>>64127745
That and a gen 3 glock 19 (RXM makes larpers seethe harder doebeit)

The MP5 is perfection

>>64158834
It was just an attempt to make a functional, commercially successful semi-auto in magnum calibers. Things like the Automag and Wildey already existed but were kind of flops. The Desert Eagle would probably be remembered as a novelty target pistol had Hollywood not decided that it looked cool.

>>64158798
Apparently you do, if you are still seething about it.

>>64159309
I don't care or seethe, but just know that people who think DEs are "guns," are midwits.

>>64159496
Not him, but
>A Desert Eagle isn’t a gun
Nigga, what?

>>64158850
yeah I seem to remember a few custom mini-1911 .45 ACPs, ones that have 5- or 6- round capacity.
Colt Mustang and Defender iirc have a full 7-round capacity and grip
there was an earlier one called the Colt Officer's .45 ACP that had 6-round capacity
the AMT Backup (also chambered in .380) was the one I was thinking of, 5-round capacity in .45
it's not really a 1911 though, SAO or DAO depending on the variant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMT_Backup

and yes ithere were some custom / limited production .45s by smaller companies

9 mm-chambered micro 1911s, the SIG P938 SAS Gen 2 seemes neat for a deep cover backup. 'Melted' with a top of slide trough, it's reminiscent of the ASP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASP_pistol

>>64150709
the year of our lord is 2025, those issues feom 2021 and 2025 have long been fixed, a lot of the hype about "shitty grot" ware spread by german shills from Onet (anti-polish propaganda tool own by the Germans) and picked up by anti-polish russian trolls, I honestly don't even register them anymore. The rifle is fine.

>>64158834
Israeli soldiers vs engine blocks. Not vs people.

>>64159609
sure thing, everything is a conspiracy against the poor poles

I never understood the MP5 hype. I was ambivalent to them. I always felt they were overpriced relics that were famous for their pedigree and history and that's it. I was wrong. I understand the obsession. Even though it's turkshit, it impressed me.

>>64159791
nice "sarcasm" there, you "pwned" and WON the discussion.
Germs bought out most of polish mass media in the 90s, it started to change quite recently. German owned Onet was spamming hysterical shit about grot endangering soldiers lives and that we should buy HK416 instead.
God I love their butthurt over us NOT buying leopards.

>>64159527
People that waste time talking about, and worse yet spending money on/shooting them.
They suck donkey dick and so do their owners

>>64159882
God I lo-ACK. I'm not a Germoid. I just hate how you poles act like pigs in shit and act like it's chocolate. As I already have said, if you were to simply say "yeah we made a basic bitch AR-18 clone and it had issues in its first 3 iterations since we're new at this" (ie, being honest, something impossible for slavs and ex commies) nobody would've had anything to say.

But you poles have to go and make dozens of threads about how POLANT ITS STRONK! GROT ISSA BAST RAIFLE KURWA, acting like your typical sub 80IQ pole plumber.
You can't be susprised if people on 4chan will then make it their mission to shit on everything pole.
>leopards
no shit, the germs can't even produce them in a timely manner. It's embarassing. But what is more embarassing is the fact that Poland has nothing to export and to produce. You're like Greece, where they posture all day against the roaches but at the end of the day the roaches are building their own stuff, while the greeks are only consumer like you poles.

>>64127599
That's a direct result of suburb mcmansion "rich" people. If people who didn't scream poorfag the instant you went replied with anything other than "its the best thing evar" it wouldn't have such controversy online. Look at the civie 416, it cost just as much but has no where near the same amount of bullshit when you try to talk about it. Every time anyone posts a scar its always "its cool but kinda overpriced" always without fail followed with "poorfag poorfag dead in streets jeets in your sheets poorfag tiny dick no pussy poor poor poor".

>>64159808
Based

>>64159560
Honestly if you really want one like that I would go with the Ruger 1911 officers model. I had one of their govt size guns and loved it. Also I think I read with the 9mm one you can switch out the slides and frames with a commander size.

>>64159808
Anyone who doesn't understand why people want PCCs basically admits to never trying one, or at least a good one like the MP5.

>>64160269
No, we want a submachine gun. Real select fire /full auto. We don't want to spend thousands on modifying a "pistol," paying the gov SBR fees tax etc. to end up with a Frankensemiauto that is not the real thing. We simply don't care, in other words.
(if (You) care have the fuck at it. Waste your money and time that's (You)r prerogative)

>>64159954
Concur. (also the source poster-base of /hg/ /arg/ cancerslop, well besides glowies - get both they're suburb mcmansion Maryland/VA glowies, can tell by the carpeting and accoutrements in all the picrels)

>>64160889
>spend thousands on modifying a "pistol,"
oh it's this schizo again lol

>>64161022
>hurr durr 'muh schizo'
read post immediately above (You)rs and enjoy the waste of money effort and time, funkopop collector

>>64156756
This except it really is better than all of its competition

>>64161209
Is it?

>>64161217
Yeah. Well maybe about the same as an AR18 honestly but I kinda view them as sister guns

>>64161162
You have no guns

>>64147506
>there is a reason it had a relatively short lived career
Yeah, because a small group of senators and .mil leadership couldn't grift FN for a cut of the action like they could other companies products. That's the real reason, everything else was theatrics.

>>64160889
>spend thousands
Please elaborate.

>>64161532
he's arguing in bad faith by making shit up about cost.

>>64159808
>semi
Thats like shooting an airsoft mp5 and saying you get the hype now

>>64161532
>>64161555
Have fun. Enjoy

>>64161371
Post a pic of your mom's car in its driveway.
(I own far more firearms than (You))

>>64127553 (OP)
Honestly the Glock. I have never seen a more widely used handgun more hated in favor of using clones that are the exact same thing

>>64146296
The 1911 in its natural habitat, polished for a picture and never used again.

>>64160889
>We simply don't care

the only people who say 'we' on 4chan are dudes with stupid fringe opinions.

>>64159883
>>64159496
>I don't care or seethe
>goes on to care and seethe

>>64128492
I would say that so many threads created on this rifle has made people hate it, it's a basic rifle, that had some problems in the beginning, I think no civilian outsite Poland can get it as we haven't exported it so I don't undestand why is so widely disscussed. Poles are a bit touchy on that rifle because german owned media started a smear campain because we didn't buy another overpriced ar18 aka hk416. Honestly we should have just been manufacturing m4 here instead of creating a rifle from scratch

>>64161964
NATO militaries will never fire a shot in anger so it doesn't matter, domestic small arms is just a PR/jobs program

>>64159935
found the shill that has been spaming msbs grot threads

>>64161924
>>64161927
>hurr durr it's just contrarianism
Nobody gaf about the /hg/ /arg/ /pcc/ /sbr/ bot-propelled cancerslop no matter how "real it is in my mind"

>>64161997
well that money goes back to country so of course it makes sense to make them here, but design them? I don't think that piston guns are so much better to pay 2x/3x the price. And I hate the fact that we have so many polymer ar18 that look the same

>>64161692
Post a pic of them then

>>64162046
Post a pic of your mom's car in its driveway.

>>64162058
No guns huh

>>64162072
Post a pic of your mom's car in its driveway.
I get what I want ------- you get what (You) want, big talker

>>64161692
Mom never owned a car and died well before your single mom squirted you out. I'm 63 fyi.
>>64162046
They never do (because they can't lmao).

>>64162128
Grow up.

>>64160889
>Frankensemiauto
>We
Are you talking about FRTs in an MP5? My AP5 with a super safety is easily the most fun gun I own. I have yet to have someone shoot it and it not put a giant fucking smile on their face.

>>64162182
Glad it puts a smile on your/their faces.
It's a simulacrum of a real from-factory submachine gun
(which is what I want and none of us ought have to simulate, but here we are).

No, I wasn't talking about FRTs. (Personally have zero interest in those)
Was referring to the overall hobby of taking gov-"permitted" semiauto long guns aka military-pattern rifles and SBR/'pistols' to attempt to make /modify ('Franken') them as close to the "real thing" as possible in appearance; shortening barrels, adding features, 'cloning' etc. The trigger-stuff doesn't interest me at all (yes, comprehend why people do it); give me the original factory select fire full auto mil-issue mechanism, or leave it.

>>64162233
why do you type like someone with disconnected lines of thought dude

>>64162276
Sorry (You) were born 65 IQ, try supplements idk

>>64161688
Yeah sure but seriously what do you mean by it taking thousands to turn a pistol into an SBR

>>64162286
idk, what do (You) mean?
Hobby and specific project costs vary. I've seen many online that are in $3K - $5K range, others (pistol-caliber HK conversions) that are $1,500. None of that is where my firearm fun money is going

>>64162308
Okay so why are you pretending people cant just take a $900 AP5 and slap a $60 stock on? Why did you harp on it costing thousands when that's nowhere near the case?

>>64162498
Perhaps it's not my misunderstanding, but yours? Have you tried trying?

>>64162498
I dgaf and would spend $960 elsewhere?

>'pretending'
??
(You) are the one busting a kidney over this pendejo

>>64162513
>>64162528
You don't seem to have a point, guess you're just brain damaged

>>64127553 (OP)
I think people way too instinctively hate on lasers as a poorfag or uniformed gun owner thing. This thus makes them an uniformed gun owner thing as everyone immediately bullies an informed gun owner out of using them

what they are doing is letting you take all sights or optics alignment out of the equation and strictly look at the target. that's what we're all after, right?

Stop replying to the bad faith faggot and stay on topic people.

>>64151195
did they even try to fit 45 into an mp5 or was the ump just that much cheaper to produce

>>64162559
Get a life. Enjoy your hobby

>>64162612
No, .45 would have been too much effort and re-design.
Furthest was the MP5/40 and /10

>>64162550
Those two posts, only one of them is me.

>>64161964
>ar18 aka hk416
Donning kruger

>>64159954
>poorfag poorfag dead in streets jeets in your sheets poorfag
10/10 rhyming skills, anon

>>64161964
>because german owned media started a smear campain
literally zero evidence of this. Poles will blame Germany for raining.

>>64127553 (OP)
Turknellis.
Even if it weren't Turkish, you'd still want to be selective with your ammo.
Turkish engineers are not ontologically deficient.

Both the famas and L85 cause widespread buthurt.

>>64162555
I like lasers too

>>64163824
>Turkish engineers
That's not usually the problem, Turkish machinists, quality control inspectors and material buyers will get a problem in way before you notice where the engineer fucked up.

>>64162555
Great in theory, but because it apparently needs to be safe to point a gun at your retina for two minutes, everything on the market is cucked 5mW piss weak cat toys, the dots of which get washed out by the brightness of an overcast day, so that's disappointing.

>>64127553 (OP)
>Which firearms generate the most seethe?

>>64164670
Tavor is excessively overrated.
Uzi, today, is a relic.
Galil always was a piece of frankenslop.

>>64163847
L85 (after switched chambering to 5.56) became a decades-long debacle
FAMAS is gtg, as is the AUG

>>64164802
That's a lot of words for guns that did their job.

>>64165564
>"a lot of words"
All guns 'do their job' and it was the bare minimum of words: 16 (for three different firearms)
(You) did provide OP seethe

>>64164670
nobody seethes about oven dodger's guns
except maybe that whole thing with the Galil being licensed/exported to south africa during embargo

>>64165025
the French arent insisting other people use their gun and they fixed the shoddy magazines and case extraction
the french also dont give 2 shits whether you like it or not
that joke of an island britain however, made the worlds biggest hunk of fucking shit so cursed even the fucking germans couldnt fix them, and to this fucking day insist the rifle is fine while quietly handing every soldier from the UK who actually expexts to get shot at an AR15

>>64159935
are you fucking joking? It takes 3 seconds to Google what Poland produces and exports.

>>64167356
do it then

>>64167286
>hunk of
Became that after switching calibers.
FAMAS and AUG are the only 'successes' of the gen 1 bullpups